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Janet - Mefferd - Today - Bodie Hodge (Cults) Jackie Bledsoe (Marriage)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd
The Truth Network Radio
December 23, 2019 8:00 am

Janet - Mefferd - Today - Bodie Hodge (Cults) Jackie Bledsoe (Marriage)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd

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December 23, 2019 8:00 am

Eastern religions have been gaining a foothold in the West. How should Christians respond? Bodie Hodge from Answers in Genesis will join me to talk about it as we discuss his book, "World Religions and Cults." Plus: Jackie Bledsoe unpacks for us "The Seven Rings of Marriage." That and more on Monday’s JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by Provident films and affirm films movie overcome are coming to the small screen in time for Christmas overcome are available on digital Blu-ray and DVD. Our confidence is in Christ alone is not a Christian nation, and that, conceptually, at least we are slowly becoming more like Hindus and less like traditional Christians in the ways we think about God, ourselves, each other and eternity while as Eastern and pagan religions continue to make inroads into American life.

It is more important than ever for Christians to understand the worldview that is inherent in these religions and also know how to defend the true faith as the religious nature of our country continues to change and so will be talking about this today with Bodie Hodge, speaker, writer and researcher for answers in Genesis and coeditor of the book were going to be talking about world religions and cults. Moralistic mythical and mysticism religions as a mouthful, but buddy, it's great to have you here.

How are you pretty good to be back on the throne here and so I'm so glad you're able to be with us so you say something which I absolutely agree with right at the outset that there are really only two religions when we may have hundreds or thousands of religions that we talk about but really it boils down to two ready-made right, you know, not a product of a lot of people you know like this either to religion God and not God. I like that. Like I have another government, God of war where another comes to the mind of man.

For the older man's religions or humanism brought up, but all the letters to all of the religions in the world are breakdowns about the about of the religion of man's religion. How would you identify man's religion over and against God's religion. We have the custody of God's word, the Bible.

Everything and hold onto the good and a lot of times you guys in different worldviews borrowed a lot of Christian morality. They borrow a lot of Christian history, but then they deviate one way or another. But the Bible is not absolute standard by which we test all things against it exactly.

So why focus on moralistic mythical and mysticism religions. What you think about the inroads. Those have made here in America where you know they are making in rugby or just of the listeners understand what we actually have a three volume subtle total before volume 2, volume 1 hit the counterfeit Christianity volume 2 here actually have two major sections one is the eastern mystical religions mysticism than the moralistic religions which also encompass of the mythological religions. The final volume will hit all your humanistic are a few thick materialistic type of worldviews now. Each of these are actually making inroads into the United States. Mysticism, like said the earlier Hinduism. This is popping up.

A lot of people don't think twice when they hear something like yoga.

Yoga comes out of a Hindu mystic worldview, certain things like that so yeah right on Yasser Cheryl. That's great. I'm glad that you pointed that out that you got three volumes altogether will give us an overview of the Eastern mysticism religions you know religions like Hinduism, the New Age Sikhism and those yet what they are the mystical religions essentially believe that all things are one. All things are ultimately spiritual.

In other words, they say the material does not actually exist. If you think there's a table in front of your wall or a house or car.

They say those things don't really exist your actually deceived into thinking those things exist and it's actually no lesion in the Hinduism F actually called the doctrine of Maia the other viewpoints have it fill you with slightly variant names and things like that as well. But all clear what they say is everything is one nothing is material and any form of God, and that type of the system is an impersonal God is not like God of the Bible, the God of the Bible is the God who is a personal God, and he created us in his image. We can communicate with them because were made in his image but to leave these mystical religions they have more of a distant type of God, a God who is set apart differently and is impersonal. He cannot communicate with us because communication is a personal thing. You see, so it's a it's a massively different type of a system and it's actually tougher. A lot of people grown up with a Christian background and a Christianized culture to understand what they mean no weight when they bring up things like mysticism or Hinduism or Jainism and want not right. But if you're part of the design. What distinction really is there between the gods of Hinduism, for example, and me right. In fact, they would say you're part of that God you're all an aspect of, and they say all clear what they want to say is you need to stop drawing the distinctions in making these distinctions we can get rid of all those distinctions then you can enter that state like a Nirvana of nothingness are being put right back into the sea of being, you know like a drop of water back into the ocean, think that's the ultimate goal is no there's no real salvation, and that type of a worldview. It's basically you just trying to get to the state of nothingness sounds fun why you're negating the sin problem that that also is the beginning point when we talk about man's problem if you don't have a problem of sin and man. I guess just isn't enlightened enough, that's the problem. What about the big portion of it, you know everything solution for the sin of evolution so you know, of course, they just kind of brush that one apart. But here's the thing when it comes down to a religion like that. Do people actually live like that does a Hindu or a Taoist, actually commencing all is one you and I we are the same thing. We are both one okay will give me your wallet really don't treat it like if you knew you like us to think like if there they don't they don't go home to somebody else's home. They don't you know want to give their wife to someone else because she's actually the lesion. They don't live like that.

If either actually borrowing from Christian doctrines, and many times they don't realize that they're doing that that's a great way to witness to love these guys to do is to point out how you guys are. You see through the fallacies within this religion. Let me tell you the truth I like that a lot spiritual you can have my wallet but not literally. Sikhism body will how was always Sikhism different from Hinduism, will Sikhism is almost it when a lot of people study Sikhism.

It's almost like a mixture between the mystical religions like your Hinduism or borrowed a lot of elements but it also has elements that almost seem like their Islamic they would have a God, the uniquely and different from, say, Hindu mystic God, they would say that there is one God, that he actually created a little bit more personal touch to it. However you know when it when it looks like you Hinduism when it looks like his mama looks like the tube, mix together that's essentially what it is almost like a secret ties religion between the two. It's interesting still.

Would there always be this consistent view that God is impersonal or gods are impersonal in all of these mystical religions and mystical religions. That's generally the case you know is pretty rare to find one that the supreme God is a personal God not heard some of the best how to get around in this it will be impersonal God will also make a manifestation of himself that is personal well that means you got a personal God, and an impersonal God thing. Place the same incident. That's a big problem especially contradictory you run under those types promptly how they typically do that. What about the issue of reincarnation is this obviously is very present in India where they talk about the caste system, and so forth that if you are in a continual cycle of reincarnation, then obviously you don't have to worry about heaven and hell will try and apply a lot of these guys they don't worry about what ultimately happened generally well maybe if I do good in all move up the system if I don't oh well I gotta redo it again and that's why you know you don't have that that that concerned about the sin and the issues of the world you like a Christian would have. Now there are problems with the reincarnation viewpoint. If start with what God says you die want to face judgment is right. I got to go back in a and get a do over. But you know that this whole concept of reincarnation. What you got a big problem and here's why.

Let's say you die and if you did better will then you move forward you go higher on the chain. If not, you go back and who judges that an impersonal God.

Judging is a personal thing. How can an impersonal God make that judgment to you see start to run and that these typological conflicts but just so you know a lot of mystical religions there fine with contradictions within their worldview. In fact, they like to say that they are beyond experience or beyond logic and their worldview there fine with contradictions and now you know a great response to that is well then you do adhere to logic and can have problems with contradictions we don't were fine with that.

No, but then you do if he can just contradict and what can they say, can they appeal to logic to ignore you run into those problem I'll I like that I like that. And when you're on this continual cycle of reincarnation when you're talking about what is good, then you also have to talk about the standard of good what is it mean to be good and what is it mean to be good enough to be able to do better and how good you have to be to reach Nirvana all these questions are so significant. I want to go to a break were gonna come back Buddy Hodges joining us world religions and cults more or less take mystical and mysticism religions. The return on Jennifer today after this I was afraid I was skiing. I know what to do and I have a question that he was like you not read in a moment.

I feel I'm not going to be up to be among today's date.

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Ultimately, your one with the divine. How would you begin to break that particular viewpoint, down from a Christian perspective and Satan know all is not one. And here's why.

Well, one of? Is there absolute authority. How would they possibly know. If all is one innovative and impersonal God that impersonal God does not reveal things to them and that's an interesting difference between Christianity see as Christians in a we have the word of God. It was a revealed word of a personal God as we can know what the truth is now in a Hindu mystic viewpoint or Taoist to care what you like, you get these ancient books they have their ancient holy books as well like the Vedas or Upanishads or what whatever it might be at those books are not seen as the word of their God, to those are just suggestions from people who'd written before, like a big and cycle PDF that you know is not an absolute standard. So how can they know anything about the religion if there God is never really revealed it. All of this is arbitrary is just suggestions. So when it comes down to it there holy books and their viewpoint. They really can't sustain it. It's purely arbitrary's well and if you're comfortable with contradictions like you were saying before then. If you are pointing out things like that, then I suppose they could come back and say that's just a western viewpoint. That's a Christian viewpoint which we reject and that's the end of the matter. Well you can but then you can point out that okay well you're fine with a logical contradiction than this. Just tell them that they're no longer Hindu or the NSA all you try to contradictorily and how do you logic that the it runs them into a problem. They don't actually live like that you can use that to point out that hate their worldview was faulty not keep in mind when you're talking to somebody, Taoist, Hindu, SJ, NIST, or whatnot one of the things you need to remember is they are not the enemy.

They have been deceived into a false worldview.

A lot of times is because of their culture there break been raised up with it.

They are not the enemy.

If the false worldview that the enemy, so we need to have that leavening to share the love of Christ were presenting the gospel show the problems within their worldview, then we need to give them the correct worldview with God's word. Absolutely yes and the enemy behind the deception that is deceiving the person God wants to hear the gospel that's so, let's talk a little bit about paganism. Paganism also a very important thing to study, we have the rise of paganism quite significantly.

Here in the West, but what would you think Christians need to understand about this system that is extremely old as we know all we need to do is read the Bible we know paganism's been around from the beginning: bail water, for example, one for Peggy that we don't have a specific chapter on it in here but voodoo wicked druid of animism. All those are different forms of paganism and one thing you need understand about paganism is there's a lot of different variations of it. Sometimes it when you shall start chat with somebody may say their pagan you need to start asking questions okay will you be by pagan what you believe what you believe the spirit world, because they vary so much.

But they are in a general sense of a moralistic type of religion. Some of them have forms of God. Some of them have very few God, some of them have distant God like it. Do you think God but what they try to do the try to live by moral code.

You know that a lot of these pagans are witches you know they they want to do things that are right and I you know, we commend them for that is very Christian of them.

However, within there will worldview. Why there's absolutely no authority within their worldview unless they appeal the man which is in arbitrary authority for what they believe. We want to encourage them also to get back to God and his words. I like what you say that actually a moralistic religion is not moral. It's immoral by God's standard. That's right. Weiner called moralistic religion. That's what they kind of try to focus on, but in practice we want to encourage people to be moral. We don't want to encourage them to be immoral, but God is the one who sets the standard for absolute morality is many times he says borrow it sometimes disabled, but we don't like this part of the Bible. Well, at that stage probably super jump to become an immoral religion when you talk about something. For instance, like voodoo is there maybe a lot of Americans who say voodoo is on. That's not anywhere around here that something in other parts of the world. But why do you think, in particular, we do need to know about things like the dualism well you know it is popping up more and more I mean you know a lot of us, you know, we've grown up with the Scooby Doo mentality of oh there's some voodoo on that on a little cartoon but you know it really is out for good places like New Orleans, it's thriving. It's growing in the areas of the church that I go to we we work with an orphanage down in Haiti and in a recent group several times.

They deal with it firsthand with you in Africa. It is growing and what I found in a culture that starts to reject God and his word more, more, which is what we see in the West, anything will come take its place. People will grab anything to believe in voodoo is one of those things that is growing out there yeah well that it makes sense and you know I'm curious to ask you just from a standpoint of looking at the whole what is it that ties these religions together is being man's religions. People in the West are finding so appealing. In other words, what are they turning their back on God about in order to embrace these forms of religion. I think a lot of people been deceived into thinking that Christianity is false. Right there is step number one they think you can't trust the Bible, we pick up full of myth and I think a lot of that is because of the humanistic worldview that is come in teaching things like evolution, millions of years that you're just an animal and you know what a lot of these pagan religions there fine with that. You see, so they try to match up that origins, I think. Step one is because people have been deceived into thinking the Bible is not true. So we as Christians have a have a step to clarify on those minutes. I think one of the other things to join all these religions together is people want to do it themselves. They want to do everything they can to try to get to the truth it gets to the next level to get to Nirvana to try to get the top some sort of heaven by them doing their own works. Is he Christianity is different from that, we asked the Lord gave us a perfect creation. We destroyed it because of sin going all way back to Adam and we can't save ourselves. This is no possibility of that what we needed was God to come rescue us and that the difference with Christianity is that God did the work Jesus Christ up in the history to take that punishment that we all deserve for our sin were all these other worldviews.

They are workspace which you can try to follow a moral code, and maybe you'll get to something better.

Yeah that's right well and isn't it interesting that so many people will describe themselves in some of these surveys is spiritual but not religious it just if they want you know when we talk about eternity and men's hearts they know that there is a God. We know this from Romans chapter 1 were born knowing from general revelation that there is a God, but they don't want to accept the true God. They don't want to accept the true God's word but they want to feel spiritual, so it seems a lot of these religions will appeal to that nature. Yes exactly right. They want a God made in man's image may be made in God's will send out a good way to sum it up. What about you have some very interesting categories. Also in the book where you talk about.

For instance, Egypt's ancient religion and things like Norse and Germanic mythology include those because they say wait a minute we're check my Hinduism. We are talking about Drew. It is in my understand those why going to mythology well one of the main reasons were actually seeing the growth of that. Believe it or not. When I was at the University. I knew somebody who believed in Greek mythology. He was a professor and I mean he he held to it fervently believe it was true.

Not me. I was 20 some years ago you think about that MS means just out of me. I know they've got a strange family leave and go back to World War II.

You know, one of the religions that that Hitler actually encourage people to go back to Brazil, Germanic and Norse mythology, forcing a growth of that you know people are wanting them out.

Chat about the halls of Valhalla and Asgard think like that with the movies you know with authority and all over and people think it's cool but what's happening is we're seeing a revitalization of these types of pagan religions as people are saying Hank was part of my ancestors path may be there on the something I'll take that thesis or maybe not well, what I find so striking is in all these instances we've been talking about all you have to do is go back to the book of acts and see for example how Paul addressed at the Areopagus, the Epicureans and the Stoics and those who had an altar to an unknown God and all the rest. And here is Paul beginning with the fact that God created the world and then proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ. When you look at that particular act, 17 in the book of acts how the disciples dealt with paganism in their day. What you think we can learn from that. Well I hate one of the things that Paul nailed he did that he set apart the God of the Bible from all these others, you realize all these pagan views whether they had a Midsummer witchcraft or voodoo all their gods are within the universe. They are essentially a lesser type of God. You know the gods of the sky of the gods of the trees or whatever. When Paul got up there. He that limit me tell you who God is.

God is one who created all things.

He's the one who gives all life and breath and all things. He's the one who sets the times and the date this God created all things owns all things and controls all things not tell you what to the Greek.

That was big news. I was like whoa this is a God so far beyond anything they could be. Imagine that.

They were like okay we need to listen to Paul here is believed, you know after that, I think in our culture. I think people have demoted God, they think God is no different from a four character or in Odin character or a Jupiter character.

What we need to do is set apart hey you guys don't know who got it from explain to you who God is and how how these pagan gods are nothing in comparison. That's wonderful. I agree with that and I also like how you guys say that we should know Christianity better than the counterfeits that's important to that's exactly right to you know a lot of Christians I plan you know I was in this camp, 255 is humbly a lot of times we don't know or Bibles as well as wheat we should and there's a reason for that.

If you look at the history just say here in the United States you back to the middle early 1800s. The Bible is used in schools was used for history use for logic use for philosophy used for literature and so forth. So the church essentially had it easy. The schools were teaching the Bible so the churches focus on the gospel focus on the morality met with the school to all the other stuff well we seen a shift in our school systems now would kick the Bible out, they could creation up a quick prayer out. They kick in all sorts of stuff with regards to Christianity out of the classroom and they replaced it with a goblets religion.

The religion of humanism with all the pagan forms and and and and offshoot so has the church responded to that. Not really out because most of our churches are still focusing on the gospel. In reality, which are good things, or get me wrong, but the problem is most of the people in the pews have gone to the state school with a knob in the Bible.

That's why we need to know and absolutely lower at a time. About 1/2 from answers in Genesis, world religions and cults. Volume 2. Thank you so much Cody.

God bless you Janet. I bless you too will be back this archived broadcast of Janet met for today is brought to you by Provident films and affirm films movie overcome or coming to the small screen in time for Christmas overcome are available on digital Blu-ray and DVD and here's your host Joe Youngman once showed that the secret of a happy remains a secret. The truth is, a happy marriage has to begin on the foundation of God's word and with an understanding that the union of a husband and wife is established by him for our good and for his glory. So what you do to grow your marriage and to stay together no matter what happens, that's organ to be talking about today with author and speaker Jackie Bledsoe who is out with a new book on the seven rings of marriage your model for a lasting and fulfilling that filling marriage, Jackie. Great to have you here. How are you today I am great, great, so the seven rings of marriage. This is a very clever way of talking about the important subject of marriage.

Why do you say it in terms of rings why that particular model of discussion will work with wedding ring ring out well, but it's really just the cedar that we go through at least a couple that last and have a feeling that we all hope for a great analogy to waking together yeah absolutely split little bit about your own story because I find this to be an interesting part of the book in and of itself. That's the fact that you didn't do marriage quite right about that a little bit in your own background yeah that what one qualified to write a book on Meredith because I did all the wrong things that we didn't start out the way that we advise people today if we had to do it. It would probably start a little bit different but my wife and I we were intimately sexually before our marriage. We had our first child. Our daughter is now 15 before your marriage so we were mated with her being 10 months old so we didn't do things in the order of the gotta fit them up in a difficult challenges, especially early on in our marriage.

Really, that would be a difficult situation and and how do you now look back upon that as what happened to lead you to that decision. Rather than getting married first and then having a baby. What have you learned from that experience that we we learned a lot and our daughter will face you wish you such a blessing, but what we do is we seem to think that come about because of our relationship that we did get to take the time and grow a relationship with in the marriage.

We do think that it was just the culture that we grew up in. That's what everyone else was doing and we follow suit and we didn't know anything about really what got that about bears until after we were married and we sought counsel of the pastor. Our church and his wife and that was what Connor redirected us and changed our whole perspective on marriage and also just redirected us in our lives as well. So what you learned from your pastor, when, how did you sort of move from your previous view on marriage to where you are now. What did he say to you yet.

One of the things we learned. Of course, that it is ordained by him, and he set it up for us to enjoy but also to glorify him and we we learn that divorce is not an option and I was on the big thing that we learned and during that course we were experiencing troubles and problems, but you assured that we were the only couple that was going through those things for you, getting married in your spirit. Few challenges nobody given you the book or marriage or any informational manager even if they have it still different when you get in your experience of thing and you feel like we're the only couple that of doing with this to be something minor or something major and you can't isolate yourself will he occur like that. Hey, you're not the only one we got through it as well. Let us encourage you by what we did in my off leaning on God's work.

We really dug into that and that begin shape and form the path that we were going from that point forward needs when you talk about God's purposes for marriage which you do at the beginning of the block where you starts in explaining why God created marriage what marriage is really for. Yet we in the book I got a call into Genesis chapter 2 and pressure for point of why God created marriage and I find that a lot of times the divorce rate which some say 50%.

Something less than that, but whatever it is it's too high that the divorce rate comes from people expecting the wrong things are getting married for the wrong reasons, and God is given a great gift of marriage to experience life and to do his bidding, his will want to thank the marriage of the complement you think about and look at Genesis 220 Adam found no complement for himself with nobody that really was a helper for his complement. So God gave us that in there that we could come together and you haven't had animals to talk to you have even if we do talk. Now you have someone that I was able to engage him engage in mind they can better golfer given us to for intimacy so that way we can be intimate and we say intimate were looking at being vulnerable and unguarded, so Genesis 225 for both the man and his wife were naked yet felt no shame so when we are intimate we can be completely naked and vulnerable and unguarded port with our spouse, and he created us, we can have that type of close relationships. You also gave it that through every bite and excited about the ability to produce that to do so with pleasure. Left physical intimacy and sex and then stewardship document everything on this earth that we need to live to use them to enjoy in our task to take care of it and manage it so you brought us together to be able to do think that we could go alone with our without our spouses with the students wonderful. So the first thing you start with, obviously, is the engagement ring and this is the beginning of it all. And this is when you're all and live in your looking forward to the future and everything is gonna be a fairytale.

What would you say to young couples who are just engage looking forward to the wedding, but maybe not thinking so much about the long haul marriage and what it's actually going to be like what have you learned in your marriage that you can tell people you probably overused clich that we sometimes prepare for the wedding but not for the marriage and I think that is key is that we have to set the proper foundation for a lifetime together and that foundation for me and and what we we share rooted in Jesus Christ, so we want to find out what he said and how were supposed to interact with one another and come together in this commitment is covenant agreement with Christ and our spouse. So as we are looking ahead to find exciting and full of hope, but take the time to build a foundation but have a conversation get the counseling find out about how each one of you handle money, how you handle conflict all those different things so that way you know going forward. What you're going to be doing with and make sure that you have that foundation of Christ that you can come back to whatever you want different side of the fifth to come back and move forward together. Looking back what would you say what is been helpful for you and your wife to have discussed prior to getting married what what have you learned yeah, I think that find it a big challenge in our relationship, and an outlet shared in the book how we were homeless on two different occasions my lot job loss part of the catalyst but also because we just didn't prepare manage our money properly for the downside as well.

So talking about that and how will spend money and how we use money and how will prepare for the future for our kids and things like that but just getting the perspective of someone who is been there before we did go through premarital counseling week. We joked that we got our premarital counseling post marriage. The pastor like that I spoke about earlier but did getting that information that that knowledge of what we're going to expect and how we can best handle it with a bit set up a much greater a much better foundation going forward.


What would you say to those who want to get married in their dating right now.

Or they may be engaged about you know the length of time you wanted dates before you get married you have any wisdom on that. I will say there's any specific length of time out. They do the things that do not mention this to get counseling to get help from other people is to really spend time getting to know each other and no circumstances could drag out for a longer period of time, or you may have a lot of time together but just make sure that you are equally yoked in your head in same direction regarding faith regarding your finances regarding all the use of the you know you may not agree on everything will thing but if you can agree on that. Your relationship in that year. Everything you do on the Senate on the cornerstone with Christ and all those other things that they come you can handle the much better but I'll say put a timetable on it also spells they did jump right into it. I believe seeking God's praying about that will also reveal when the right half of them as well. I think that's getting nicer so when you come to the wedding ring.

You gotta consider the commitment had don't you not just the wedding but also the marriage to follow. Yeah you are coming together as one of the two shall become one and in becoming wanted not as easy as it sounds no different. But that is the point where we are committing them and really coming together, and if not this commitment agreement where if you do this I'll do that. That's not will talk about were talking about a covenant agreement where regardless of what you do, then my agreement is to love you husband that would let my life different lifestyle absolutely get a quick break were getting him back there with Jackie's lessons or seven rings of marriage or model for a lasting pencil selling marriage maybe changes them no matter when this is the end of the story of a young mom who plan to end her pregnancy but chose life after visiting a pre-born center pre-born steps into the lives of hurting young women who were being told that a pre-born baby is not a life pre-born is the largest provider of free ultrasounds in the country and the direct answer to Planned Parenthood helping young moms choose life. I feel like it was made for me to head this is something I will reason you can be a part of choosing life with young hurting women across the country. Would you join with pre-born and Janet met for today to help save 400 babies by the end of 2019 for $140 you can sponsor five ultrasounds and help say five babies from abortion and now through match your gift of $140 will actually help save 10 babies instead of five.

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That's 855402222985540222294. There's a banner to healthcare open enrollment period has ended. Did you miss it. Don't go a whole year without having a healthcare program sign up with liberty health share is a Christian healthcare sharing ministry liberty. Healthcare is not insurance so you can still sign up. In fact, you can sign up any time of year and there are no contracts starting as low as $199 a month. Liberty health share has memberships for singles, couples and families so you can choose the ideal program for your situation. Plus, liberty, health share has no network so you're free to pick your own doctors, hospitals and providers. Liberty health share is a nonprofit ministry so your money goes toward helping other members with their eligible medical expenses and in your time of need. Other members are there for you to, you can feel good knowing your part of a community of like-minded individuals who understand the importance of people coming together to bear one another's burdens, go to liberty, health for more information liberty health you're listening to you for today talking about marriage. Specifically, the seven rings of marriage and the book by the same title by Jackie Bledsoe who is joining us now so we were talking at some of these rings and engagement ring understands at the beginning that you need to set a proper foundation for your marriage and Jesus Christ understand that marriage is a commitment to lifelong commitment and this is interesting Jackie because even today in the church we see a divorce rate that is shameful.

It's too high it it shouldn't be the case that Christians are getting divorced. Why you think it is that we are seeing the divorce numbers were seen in the church were not practicing with credible that we are will make America successful. Being in the church and even accepted Christ the nest so it would mean were following the things that he said that we are learning God wants us to do. I think practicing things like prayer worshiping a fellow shipping together. We don't always do those things.

So you know I don't know the statistics yes one person. It's one thing you know the person something different. I think it's too high. No matter what it is but I think it is less for those Christians that are actually practicing praying together worshiping together studying God's word together exactly and that's that such an essential part of it all. Discover ring.

Now this is in it. This isn't exactly a real ring but discover ring at the end of the word. There you talk about the importance of learning about each other. We touched on that a little bit when you talked about having premarital counseling, but what about this process of learning about one another and you know really honestly being yourself and getting to know your spouse when the real you comes out we say that when you're dating you're not really dating one of your dating each other's representative and get married. Representative fire.

Here we are.

The real you come about.

You see everything. To think that you may never imagine an shocking storm. Once that you could be shocked or frustrated by stuff and at your spouse does not do so you didn't realize that before, but that the same time, we learn about ourselves to fill with an important discovery process of not just learned about our spouse, but learn about us and what makes us tick and how we are selfish we thought we were stuffed with and things like that. But the key thing about discovering if it's a good thing to learn about your spouse and it's something that we should not do during that first. But throughout our marriage and make it become students of our spouse because were going to grow what we want to continue to be the one that know most about them yeah that's that's absolutely true when you talk about marriage taking work that doesn't sound very romantic. Can I know for a lot of girls, especially the same. It is supposed to be a fairytale would mean where it shouldn't be work. What is what you tell Christians about the reality of marriage being worked.

Not that it's not love. Not that you don't have a wonderful bond, but that the act of interacting with another center on that level living together. You know, raising kids together having a home together really does require work what you mean by work explain what that's all about anything that a court having artwork matter what it is to be successful in any area of your life. Take hard work in the same with Mary and I want to look at that as a bad thing, but work can be good for figuring out the discovering about your spouse and one another can be good to be fun and exciting, even going through challenges together can be something that you look back on.

You may, at the time. Frustrated and hard when you get through it. You know the Bible talk about count it all joy will we go through the 30 things because we know what will be produced. On the other. In know that persevering the work in it. You have choices there going to be circumstances that are come about internally or externally from your marriage.

But when we come together and go through them that we can really grow. Fold into the other ring familiar to get to that lasting and fulfilling nearly all forceful now I'm curious checking. I don't mean to get too personal, so you can just answer this the way you want. But in your own marriage.

I think this does help people when you're telling them that marriage takes work with your own wife what has been some areas where you touch my finances.

For example, what is been in one area or maybe a couple of areas where you really haven't understood where she was coming from.

You really had to work at what have been some of those situations for you. You get a story that my life my wife wears her motion go to sleep. She is the crier of the family that it doesn't take much for what she said of the waterworks are flowing so early on in our marriage. This would really really frustrate me because I couldn't understand.

I cannot understand what I'm searching on my trying to get what happened that I called her cry and I didn't see anything so natural and what they okay dump and I did this frustration so one story on her birthday is actually last year. Maybe your to go now.

She was crying in the morning. I did that everything what I thought right to get the birthday set up right and for someone to keep in the crime. So I go in there and frustrated, going back-and-forth of Picardie myself. I'll not get everything enough you still happy in all this and then I found out later, is what American in good is everything okay or what's wrong she said nothing was wrong. She was actually cry. She was happy because I made her feel special, are honored birthday.

So what I found out throughout years of this is that she's emotional.

She doesn't like it that she's emotional and the more she tries to stop it, the harder it is for the more I asked the harder mixer. Stop crying and so instead of me looking at something that's wrong and I've done it or she won't tell me in the issue going on. I need to come to be more understanding and be patient with her and allow her to look to those emotions. Whatever they were. They were so valid on the calendar that we had to go through early on and throughout our marriage really growing in it, but it took some time. I just I'm smiling because I so understand this.

Yes, I can definitively say that women's tears don't always mean the same thing for making these sad tears are happy tears or frustrated tears or stress tears. You never know you have to ask I think that's that's excellent. What about you, take note of that.

I'm still learning basically exactly you don't have an old lady have to throw this in here. One of the things that might my dad used to say when we were growing up as he said I learned over the years is your mom that I needed to ask her when she was upset. Do you want sympathy or do you want to solution because my inclination was always to offer a solution, and sometimes she just wanted a hug. So these sorts of things I think are so important that male and female are different art weight. This is always something were trying to overcome an income together, but communication is so important. For that reason, you have a great with right there yet. Keep in mind there's my marriage advice to you just does worked out. What about the goal reaching your goal. Because obviously you want to be able to stay together until one of you goes to have an and and to to be there for the duration to have a happy marriage and to have a fulfilling marriage. How do you prepare people for meeting that goal all along the way because some people are married for 50, 60 years of growth and understanding and sacrificial love and leadership throughout marriage and I didn't but the goal is not that we had up divorce or not we stay married about separate separate rooms of the house, but we are actually together and fulfilled with our relationship and you know that the goal not talk about the prospering enough.

Overall, searching with the sixth ring is that yes, our marriages will not be perfect, they will never be perfect, so that's not the goal to have a perfect marriage but we're going to go to think through all the different stages in ring, but as we grow and become more mature in our marriage that we handle them differently. You not talk about earlier. Looking back with some of the challenging challenges that you go through some of our best status of marriage. Sometimes we are prospering with one with the hardest for us because we came to get better and that's what really makes your marriage to the quietly laughing at fulfilling that you really have to learn that experienced on to you definitely do yeah nobody can prepare you for that. Also, I think this is interesting because where you are now writing your book and giving people advice about marriage. This is something that you address in the book is the payback you know it.

Being able to have a fulfilling marriage built on the foundation of Jesus Christ. Eventually you can engage in mentoring, which is another one of your rings experiencing something great in your marriage that you want others to experience and you can be a help to younger couples that were there with regard to the hard times and we kind of took that for certain why we can't even complain and I like why we got this and then our focus became getting through it and then there became a moment where we realize that we we were going to be things for us individually, or even affect the marriage and family, but we were going to improve God needed us to be prepared to share and turn and help other people who may be of similar status in America. So, we realize that our marriage wasn't just about us much bigger than us, and we now move for the course into it, to share with others, but that doesn't mean you believe every couple can get with mentoring space better than you have to be speaking and writing books mentoring could start within a few were started with the realize that our kids were looking at us and we want to make sure that they were going to be prepared out the best they could possibly have.

And then maybe couple couple share at your church.

Or maybe it is an actual marriage ministry right but I say if the crime is open something. And see how God brought you and not share that with someone else.

Now I think that's absolutely sure will the name of the book is the seven rings of marriage Jackie Bledsoe SS Jackie is your website correct Jackie, that is correct. All right, very good will. It was great to have you think you so much for joining us today was a delight to have you been my pleasure.

Thank you kindly take care and thanks for joining us here in Chama for today is always our

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