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Janet - Mefferd - Today - Brad Jurkovich (Conservative Baptist Network)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd
The Truth Network Radio
February 18, 2020 7:00 am

Janet - Mefferd - Today - Brad Jurkovich (Conservative Baptist Network)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd

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February 18, 2020 7:00 am

The Southern Baptist Convention is abuzz about the launch of the new Conservative Baptist Network. Will God use this group to help lead the convention away from its progressive Wokeness and back to the Bible? We'll get some thoughts from the network's spokesman, Pastor Brad Jurkovich. Plus: BigEva elites roll out a new media strategy to push pro-life evangelicals into voting for progressives in 2020. I'll talk about that and more on Tuesday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by pre-born for $140 you can provide ultrasounds to five women in crisis pregnancies. Call now 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or Janet Mefford.com is our confidence is in Christ alone, Baptist network has now been formed.

The network describes itself as a partnership of Southern Baptists where all generations are encouraged equipped and empowered to bring positive biblical solutions that strengthen the SBC in an effort to fulfill the great commission and influence culture. It also states on its website that it rejects various un-biblical ideologies currently affecting the Southern Baptist convention, such as critical race theory in her sexuality and social justice, adding that it is committed to seeing the SBC function biblically make you think that a network form to influence the SBC to fulfill the great commission and function biblically would be completely uncontroversial, but already the group is getting some interesting blowback from some of the elite woke in the SBC as it were, while also seen thousands of Southern Baptist respond positively to these new efforts are working to find out more today about the conservative Baptist network from network spokesman Brad jerk event to his pastor of First Baptist Church of Bossier City, Louisiana Brad, it's wonderful to have you with us. Thank you so much for joining me, Janet. You are awesome. Thank you for the opportunity to do well. It's wonderful to have you. Congratulations on this luncheon. Did you ever think you would get the kind of reaction that you can getting in the last couple days it's in A really incredible to watch across the spectrum. Your week we waited and waited obviously so important back community you will draw, enter into the Prego of the casting vision and addressing things and try to have good conversation. There's always been a be some pushback but you know we crossed over 3000 drones already over the weekend. On Friday morning and were encouraged arming the vast majority of weight very affirming.

So again were grateful the Lord is working clearly on the work started little all that is exciting to talk a little bit of background why the conservative Baptist network.

I read some of the things on your website. Some of the vision that God is giving you for your role within the Southern Baptist convention, as you say you're not a new denomination you want to stay within the SBC. What led up to the establishment of this network. Why did you think it was so important to put this effort together the question and context, pastor grew up in Baptist churches from the West Coast and then did ministry and you know on your lot, always appreciated Baptist. What I would call a family we are were a family of brothers in Christ, we partner together for sure in the world but as a pastor you have to look at these things. Is that okay were here to shepherd our flock, for your closure and then you go you look at all your relationships convention coming to me my own involvement in the SBC and you start to go hey the last five years.

There's just something that concerned me when you try to address them. And you don't see the needle moving back to where you are. Your past, you're going okay there's a theological issue here. There's a stewardship issue here. What does that mean for pastor like me to either stay engaged with the SBC or or what were your options and so I didn't know if I was alone and that had a lot of conversation about the country begin to your mother pastor that they felt alone.

They felt like it. They even spoke up on some of these concerning things that they would be labeled or dismissed or whatever and I just, you know, sometimes a friend of mine and we get together get around a table and just see what God is doing.

Either were like-minded. In these concerns and etc., or were just, you know, done with this or whatever but it's been serious and and a lot of pastors last five years nomination or just started to go down the road that are just not comfortable with how that we said what you are. If our decision is not to walk away because we do love this family.

We wanted opium strong, not bad, but what does that mean well we knew it wanted to create a no site somewhere that we transferred churches will try to do ministry we want to inspire and engage and we have what we could create a network were like-minded pastor the church to say a there's speaking my language they see the same issues. I don't happen to think the SBC we can engage but we can evaluate and pushback on what needs me pushback on engage or need to engage in prayerfully this is about to be stronger and healthier. Going forward, that the context of that. It really was get together. Think God. We want to do with this right I completely understand why so many Southern Baptist pastors and laymen alike would say why should we believe this is our church. This is our denomination. Why we want to see the Lord work again in this denomination biblically healthy ways. But you know what's weird about this. Everybody talks about the conservative resurgence that occurred back in 1979. Do you see different things happening now. That happened then in terms of the issues that have come up because one of the things I've noticed is you have a lot of these for lack of a better term elite leaders in the SBC constantly say will were Orthodox we have the Baptist Faith and message. We have this war sounds theologically and yet the ortho proxy is what seems to be coming under fire for a lot of people. Wait a minute, pushing critical race theory in the seminaries you talking about intersection and social justice. You guys have been doing this resolution nine you make of that. You know the scenario here where we have people seen were Orthodox and yet they're pushing this woke stuff and then basically not wanting to have a conversation about it not, no question about it that one of the challenges that had over the last was the last year to things started becoming more clear.

I think they're going what trigger point, what is the binding issue here in the 90s and early 80s you would how people saying, well, the first 11 chapters of Genesis wasn't real literal and so are going to wait a minute, you'll believe that what about that very clear testimonies of Bonnet were not on the same page of socket for God are articulate that will hear trigger point people well we are conservative we believe about the message. I know what you're adopting worldly wisdom just like you want to always blame you mean that the gospel is enough. The word of God is sufficient in all things. Why are we even tolerating these outside ideas or adopting them Birmingham elevating them. It's not helping confusing it doesn't have the gospel at all hypothetical. In many ways and is creating confusion and division, and so there are some similarities and that you'll get every generation have to take a stand and fight content for the fate and so we could go after that battle was fought in the early 80s leadership in ministry and agenda and priorities were to be conservative and all work instead of the word of God. You can now the last five years. Clearly, there is a shift of a different road that I'm saying everybody in SBC light some great men and women. SBC, like, but there needs to be some wacky just say wait a minute that the rolled over on multiple layers. Yes, it is theology like that is practical and ideologies that are being embraced in and affirm you're going were not survived the Zimbabwe Janet about this at any any conservative Bible believing group it's in America the world they're going to have to contend with this because it's very very intense man and we've got to be wise and strong at this time. Okay I agree it really is right, but at scariest I would say for most Christians to see it happening in the Southern Baptist convention simply because it is the largest Protestant denomination in the United States and if the SBC falls away.

That does not bode well for the rest of evangelical Christianity. That's how a lot of Christians see it will end up starboard week look easy thing to do for churches and hopefully correct. At some point, godly men and women have to step up, stand up and do it in the spirit of Christ me know. Dr. Blanco on this and that but here's the reality. Anytime you draw the thing to take a stand. There's going to be challenges that you want to have honest conversations then you got just like in marriage your wife on the grill something for yourself. You want to come back out and talk. Sometimes you're just going to be those moments of pension. I think a lot of folks are that necessary. Can we feel that it's worth we go that way to take a very quick rate rancher that she was pastor of First Baptist Church of Bossier City, Louisiana, and with the conservative Baptist network will come right back with us after this Christians losing their businesses for not making wedding cakes for homosexuals parents losing custody for not affirming their child's gender identity big tax censoring Christian books, videos and social media posts.

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Unlike any other. Go to God's voice .us and register now what the church needs now is God's voice Janet Mefford today and here's your host Joe welcome back. Thank you so much for being with us and we are delighted to have with us rancher that she is pastor of First Baptist Church of Bossier City, Louisiana, and is the spokesman for the new conservative Baptist network and from what you were telling us earlier Brad, you have over 3000 people now who have responded and joined up with you which is just mean that just speaks to the need that there is on the part of so many Christians to have a network of this type. Now I know you're going to be launching this event on June 8.

You talk about this ahead of the Orlando meeting of the Southern Baptist convention. Can you tell us a little bit about what's ahead for the conservative Baptist network what he can be doing on June 8 to go public with that which is what you're saying now we knew we need to get this network out there. We we we are well aware of their past church across America who are engaging they don't see any hope that you don't hurt or whatever you forgot to put it all going to get out there and let them know okay there is a way to stay engaged with take a stand with a positive way so what were doing now.

From here you will be doing what our purpose. I want to encourage, equip and empower Catholic Church to make a difference. So from our network standpoint you be offering resources on a weekly or every other week basis whether article speak to these issues, I can help navigate them video testimonies, encouragement, resources, but we also want to point them to an event in June were at the convention were to have: our kind of our main launch event and that will obviously be preaching speak and address these issues, the thing for and then beyond even Janet. Beyond that, we felt like the network and host things regionally whether the coffers are different special event that can help pastors and churches are saying gay.

For example, one of the things the one of the unique quality therapist network is about patriotism and take the stand and religious liberty in support well how can we help pastors and churches navigate the waters okay. Regardless of who the president Baptist have led the way religious liberty led the way on freedom of conscience and and in doing that and so you know maybe where were able to host an event that can help pastors and churches navigate the waters where they just seen in recent years and SBC life. There is a thought or an idea around it, you know, if you speak about freedom or standing for a cultural engagement in America for some help putting America over your kingdom citizen with Jesus.

I now now you're going worse and they're going to wait a minute. I love the Lord Jesus. Of course, reportable.

I don't want to have it but I'm also in America. Anything performed for carved out for and if we don't stand for that. Then one of the world are we doing for our children to churches in ministry God has given us freedom to share Jesus will in the world. I wish it would be foolish to squander that so all I'm saying is that one aspect of the network, or we can help pastors and churches in that message, and in that endeavor is just one way. You know, I know I can speak for myself. I'm tired of the Russell mortification of everything.

This is the guy who came in a few years back and started lecturing Christians in the SBC that they loved politics more than they love the gospel as he went often and hung out with Obama in the White House to talk about amnesty and right away a whole lot of people said wait a minute, why is it okay to be political. If you're a no hanging with the left, but it's not okay to be political.

If you're seen the biblical billable foundation of conservative causes and a you know that's been an ongoing issue to ask you though about something in particular because you've had a lot of these big leaders in the SBC respond.

For example on twitter to the launch of the conservative Baptist network and I was noting that Dr. Albert Mohler, who could well be the next president of the SBC put out a tweet that said, the real network of Southern Baptist is called Southern Baptist convention, which I thought to be a little snarky. Then he put out this article called the convictional cooperation of the Southern Baptist convention. It was kind of a big word salad. They didn't say a whole lot he just kinda kept reiterating cooperation and unity Baptist Faith and message but he said something really odd in this piece and I was interested for your reaction. He said Southern Baptists have lost our ability to talk respectfully and conventionally we had better recover that ability faster. We will destroy the very foundation of cooperation that is brought us to this moment, but it seems odd to me that he fails to even discuss the elephant in the room and that is his own facilitation of this woke garbage in the seminaries and the toleration of some of this stuff. It's like he doesn't want to deal with it. And yet for years he's been called the conservative hero of the Southern Baptist convention. What is your reaction to all of this. This response in particular from Dr. Moeller again, I'm not a leader of yesterday. Right now I'm grateful that a network is coming online to keep the house of the Baptist churches engage yes water rights certainly won't want to be reservoir even or even let it be put, you know that's my personal take on that Dominican on that statement on his own but for me that on his conversation, you know you get it does help to come to the table and be honest about those things only thing that they how do we how we course correcting called things what they need to be called and be clear about these things so I welcome on base, and I know that I've tried to have that over the years, and myself. You know I've served on committees I've done old and like I said there's some great people there but there's something stuff going on that we would just kind of allowed and again I get it past her busy. They don't want to engage with the end of the day is work that is so leadership one out of a conversation. The engine of the SBC as pastors and churches. Yes, and so that's why we felt like this was a unique moment for pastors and church they wait a minute. This is our convention and were going to take a stand and this is what God told us to.

This is what we do for for decades now and it is not come without a price. Why we want to just walk away from that and and and one thing needed is clarity. Young people can hide behind the man conservative all day long baby and see what it's like, well, what do you mean by that name.

We just let you know what this is who we are, what were about an audit not be afraid of that and we had an incredible response to well we can see you can see why kids are really hitting a nerve with a lot of pastors and a lot of Christians in the SBC.

What would you like to see happen Brad at the next convention in Orlando in terms of who to elect as president or the kinds of resolutions that ought to be passed if you had any discussions along those lines thus far. I know it's kind early on me all about Janet. I will very comfortable right now.

They were not endorsing any particular candidate will have a candidate that were running things right but but clearly on the principal stamp what we want you guys believe the Bible visually and stand on it and not Janet. We were living in a culture. You see it in America culture and everything else you just finished two roads just diverting on every level, and if not, we were foolish to think is Dr. Becker SBC family so it's going to take some courage.

It's going to take people feel fleshly things out if they know I don't really care what twitter says about this what God says work in important we I want my children to say that I want churches to have come that Jesus is coming again soon.

And that's what we gotta be passed.

Russell conservative leadership, people are not afraid to call before they are and looking up for the Lord, you know, so it's important you will set aside. Do you think that the Southern Baptist convention can once again experience a resurgence as it did decades ago. I mean that many people talk about the miracle of how the SBC turned around back then it was absolutely unprecedented to see the Lord do something like that you feel about that because you were living in a new day there are new challenges, but we have the same sovereign God that we had all those years ago. How do you see the battle going forward in terms of what you would like to see the Lord do or what you expect the Lord may do I look. I believe God could do anything I see pastors go to churches all across America that her dad died. Maybe they gone you know of a leftward lien or whatever and God uses that to do a fresh work of these individual churches so you know when you see God doing those kind of things and these miraculous works. I think you can do it convention wide but it's going to be overnight and is going to take some just some continual prayer, continual action and commitment and and for men and women to be bold, be arrogant or cocky but that you need to be clear and consistent. And we need to say this is what God calls to be.

We need to return to this we need to be about. This is not just select going back is less real and then let's go with that confidence and I think the Lord can do it. I think there's a clear hunger for God and in figure 4 earlier to other other people watching this thing want the SBC to be strong yes and and so I think that even people outside of our family are praying for that you know Lily can happen that it seems like it's a little overwhelming because those who have a megaphone right now were not speaking that message but sometimes it then that phase were God just as no other to do stuff that you were even expected that pretty special. It is really special very quickly back as I know were to run out of time here soon.

What kinds of changes do you think most need to occur in the Southern Baptist convention, what would be the top or the top two changes that need to happen in order to be going in the right direction. Well, I think this whole ideology of basing everything on the color and or power. All of that is it. It's really not. Fred really is so we gotta have clarity on that resolution nine was just an absolute train racket. Something there.

You're just little cable we got to send a message that says this is what were about what the gospel called me about and then we just need to make sure we have leadership leading the way that you can you can work through an flesh out a lot of other things without but to become confident restored about his passion. Churches that that were not talking thing to do. "Playing games with some of these cultural winds that are blowing right now we don't need it and were not doing any good.

Doing so general but I yeah absolutely great. Absolutely great and people can check out your website. It's conservative Baptist network.com it's exciting to see this launch Brad.

I'm excited and I know thousands of Southern Baptists are excited will be praying for you branch or convention spokesman for the conservative Baptist Baptist network. Thanks so much Brad for being here girl die.

God bless you to will be back on Janet Mefford today. This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by pre-born for $140 you can provide ultrasounds to five women in crisis pregnancies. Call now 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or Janet Mefford.com Janet Mefford today and here's your host Joe Mefford walking back will I want to talk a little bit further about this article written by Dr. Albert Mohler, the convictional cooperation of the Southern Baptist convention, and if you look at the tweet that he put out that the real network is the Southern Baptist convention. It seems very weird that he would be so dismissive of conservatives, conservatives, why would he be dismissive of conservatives if his whole reputation throughout all these years in the Southern Baptist convention is as the conservative hero to strike anybody else is weird really, and then he writes this article that is just kind of blabbering to me like I'm not trying to be mean. I'm just trying to summarize what the whole effectiveness as he talks about the Baptist Faith and message is the summary of Baptist believes what holds us together. Nothing you know we don't agree on absolutely everything that we cooperates and we shouldn't lose this Baptist Faith and message and we should have this new set of challenges that we me. 10 were looking into a culture reality that is increasingly hostile to biblical truth and it is both powerfully seductive and threateningly coercive the rising generation of Southern Baptist will be called to even greater conviction if we are to maintain her cooperation.

The great commission.

Okay, first of all I like to say Miller has done all kinds of tolerating and enabling of the woke that's been the crux of all of this, Matt Hall and his seminary, the Southern Baptist theological seminary talking about how he's a racist and invoking. Basically, the tenants of critical race theory and then kind of walking it back a little bit when there was blowback in the now.

Mohler took down the video of Matt Hall saying what he said this is the think the Provost at SPT asked all kinds of stuff going on and I got back in particular because I will play this kind again for you. Just so you don't forget this. Do you remember when Dr. Moeller appeared at the shepherd's conference out at Grace Community Church John MacArthur's church in California and they it was kind of an odd scenario because you had Dr. Arthur neared Phil Johnson, who was kinda moderating the discussion and he tried to raise the issue of the awkwardness of the social justice stuff which is on the rise in the SBC and what do we do about this and Dr. Moeller did not like talking about that I want you to listen is he talking about the need to stand up against un-biblical. You know, inroads, sin being taken. Then we need to be careful to stick to our theological convictions. But then when he was questioned about the rise of social justice in all of this garbage in the SBC. This was his weird reaction. Listen to this. I am not forced to twitter conversation hundred 40 cares about these issues.

I have been trying to lay it out for 30+ years and understanding of how even though should engage the culture and my teeth apologetically confronting cultural Marxism and during the entire issues of the left, I invite to my campus. I cite who I platform pretty good about the message that I'm sending their when it comes to concerns about evangelical absolutely conversations amongst evangelical leaders knows exactly where I am on how best to articulate that concern in this particular that's not easy that's not using.

I have tried to help to interpret these issues as clearly and charitably as I can in Norma's number of to various kinds of social gospel, because that's a lot easier to find satisfaction in okay but he talks about what he has been alive confronting the left.

I've spoken out for many years where he speaking out against now. You could've stood up at the convention where they were passing resolution nine and said something and nipped that entire thing in the bud because your L Moeller you didn't say anything until after it was all said and done, so why don't you confront the left. Now if you're so concerned about the left. This is the duplicity that is going on and this is what is so terrible for the Southern Baptist convention panic aside, you can't say to this group of people I'm with you and then turn around the same the opposite side and Sam with you to, which is essentially what's been going on, if not indirect words by an action, and by what you tolerate and buy what you enable it's ridiculous Tomas go from founders ministries has a really good piece over at his website, you really ought to read it. Especially if you're Southern Baptist, called interesting times and changing times in the Southern Baptist convention and he's lamenting some of these problems.

Resolution nine. Obviously on critical race theory and intersection alley was a train wreck. But he also references this recent debacle over the 2020 Southern Baptist convention pastors conference. This is a lineup that includes a pastor XML woman teaching pastor. There is no such thing of foursquare gospel pastor in a Southern Baptist pastor whose church has at least one woman pastor alongside him on staff ON the Southern Baptist pastor David Hughes of church by the Glades has regularly used sexual themes and innuendo for sermons and evangelistic strategies. For example, here and there are some of the list here of Pastor Hughes's sermon series. The world's largest strip club with the tagline, come get naked with 5000 of your closest friends without taking off your clothes and appropriate for a church now known in a now so he says these two incidents are simply the latest examples of ways that God is removing the fašade that his covered much of Southern Baptist life and forcing all who refused to close their eyes to face up to Syria's heartbreaking realities. The revelations are painful enough in themselves, but the way that SBC leaders have responded in the wake of them is even more telling, more disheartening and more alarming and he goes on to cite a couple of other examples, one of which has to do with the hiring of Dr. Karen swallow prior over at Southeastern Baptist theological seminary.

Now you know is a good listener to the Janet Mefford today show that Karen swallow prior endorsed re-voice the very beginning when we exposed it. She had an endorsement on the re-voice website with her picture and then she's hired at Southeastern Baptist theological seminary. Nobody has answered anything about that are given answers that are good about why she was hired there and Tomas go his tried to get some answers from Danny Aiken hit the president of the seminary and says he has not had adequate answers to that question that Matt Hall scenario the Provost there at SPT asked, and his questionable teachings brought to light on the seminary's website and video recordings, but then the events have not been really responded to by these SBC leaders are called to account and then they either ignore calls for account or they double down in defense of their actions and he goes through some of the details about how he tried to get responses. He went to Southeastern's president, Dr. Danny Aiken.

He went to Dr. Pryor. He asked a straightforward question about her endorsement of re-voice and they won't answer won't answer because this stuff is being punished. We been saying this since May 2018.

This is been going on in the Southern Baptist convention. They are very quietly trying to push a certain twisting of sexuality on the Southern Baptist convention to what extent we don't yet know. But we do know the background and a lot of the SBC ties to re-voice we have covered that like a rock here on Janet Mefford today so his big concern is that you are not getting a response from these people. They have tried to go through the channels the normal channels of getting a response from these leaders. Could you please speak to the issue of re-voice could use.

Please speak to the issue of intersection alley. Critical race theory. Could you please tell us why this is going on that is going on your hiring this liberal woman what is going on here and they just don't answer and then you get people like Dr. James Merritt coming out and referring to the little people.

Yes, he really did that. He referred to the little people on his twitter account.

There is an elitism among these people and as far as I'm concerned is an observer of Southern Baptist life and a summary who has been observer and observer of Southern Baptist life in the Southern Baptist convention goings-on since I was a student at Baylor covering religion and covering the Southern Baptist convention, you need new leadership, Southern Baptists, that's what comes down to.

You need new leadership. You need to clean house and you need to get new people and and those people need to be Bible believing staunch conservatives who hold the line on the word of God from Genesis to Revelation and who don't play games when it comes to saying one thing out of one side of their mouths about what they stand for and then on the other hand there doing the opposite. In practice, then he stands. That's that's the way that I see it, you will never get a change in the Southern Baptist convention and less you get leaders that you can trust and unless you get leaders who are accountable to the sheep. And yes, leaders do need to be accountable to the sheep and I know there are people out there who believe all we just need to do what our leaders say the Bible doesn't say that the sheep are to judge their shepherds absolutely. What about all this admonishment in the New Testament about testing testing to see if these leaders are approved. That needs to happen this morning, Janet Mefford today seven us healthcare open enrollment period has ended. Did you miss it. Don't go a whole year without having a healthcare program sign up with Liberty healthcare is a Christian healthcare sharing ministry liberty. Healthcare is not insurance so you can still sign up. In fact, you can sign up any time of year and there are no contracts starting as low as $199 a month. Liberty healthcare has memberships for singles, couples and families so you can choose the ideal program for your situation. Plus Liberty healthcare has no network so you're free to pick your own doctors, hospitals and providers. Liberty healthcare is a nonprofit ministry so your money goes toward helping other members with their eligible medical expenses and in your time of need.

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That's 855402, baby. There's a banner to click Janet Mefford.com you're listening to Mefford today. You have to be really quite, Karen. I can have a lot of time to deal with this think there is a new media strategy that is being rolled out by these big evil elites on how they're going to deal with us little people went to people is the little people I as we go back to the 2016 election. You'll recall that you have these very self-righteous never Trumper's were also more the head of the air LC at the Southern Baptist convention David French national review Michael Courson at the Washington Post, and a whole host of other characters and the whole strategy back in 2016 was to shame people shame pro-life evangelicals.

How could you lose all of your principles and vote for Donald Trump to which I have said since the very beginning.

Who would you have had a spot for Hillary Clinton, then ships we didn't ask your opinion. We don't really need a bunch of elitists telling us who to vote for. We have consciences that are guided by the word of God, and it is an individual decision by every Christian to vote for whom ever you want to vote for now I'm not necessarily saying that every choices equal. I obviously don't think that I have very strong opinions about who we should vote for and who we shouldn't vote for, but it was just the snarky kind of elitists, snobbery, coming down from on high loneliness be that the gospel okay used to work for Democrat Congressman Rosa more so you don't you might want to just go do something else for a while. We don't really care what you think. So that didn't work. That was a big disaster and then we all kind of made a big deal at the time that Rossmoor really needs to go and we almost succeeded in that, but it didn't quite succeed in that so he remained pathetic and got quiet because his job was on the line there rolling out what seems to be this new media strategy. How are we going to get those pro-life evangelicals to not vote for Trump and I have noticed what they have done is you have the people within the same cabal as it were putting out well-timed articles in various places on the dressing kind of the same issue, but seeing things a little differently and it's beginning to emerge to me how they're going to handle 20/20 because here's what's happened is I've pointed out before you had the evangelicals for life conference that the air LC has been involved in in various and sundry evangelical leaders have joined forces and the whole thing is we just roll out evangelical left is Ron Snyder's old argument from the late 80s what it means to be really pro-life and and it's not just about unborn babies and saving their lives. It's also about, you know, in the in the modern context, it's about refugees and it's about open borders and is about that. No, it's not. It's not pro-life and the pro-life movement is about saving the lives of unborn children who are being slaughtered in a mortuary's that's what the pro-life movement is about you talk about other things but that the rest of that stuff does not fit under the rubric of the pro-life movement. So I talked quite a bit about this. So what they've been trying to do is tell evangelicals you need to be holistically life holistically, you can't. Yes you should care about babies in the womb, but you ought to care about refugees and immigrants, and distant dad in the other thing and you gotta be present at the other think what that does is create a set up by which they can say see it's okay for you to vote for a Democrat because you need to be holistically pro-life is an example of this.

Andrew Walker is at his senior fellow was senior fellow in Christian ethics at the ethics and religious liberty commission so Rossmoor was his boss. Now he's on the faculty of Southern Baptist theological seminary, where he serves as associate professor of Christian ethics in apologetics and is also an associate dean etc. etc. he wrote a piece a national review it's very long and I can read it but basically saying you need to understand why religious conservatives would vote for Trump like walking sounds pretty conservative and he's going through all the reasons you it's complicated.

You know the media has made it out to be the case that evangelicals have voted for Trump because they compromise their principles.

On the one hand at all, or they're just stupid are you not all these different reasons that they've talked about Christians really compromising everything that they stand for. By having voted for Trump which was his bosses position and nausea but he is trying to make the case that you really need to consider the reluctant Trump voter you know that he does say some good things he's like you know not all Christians are gung ho for Trump.

They just see him is the better option when they're faced with different scenarios on who they can vote for an and who is really on the ballot.

But now listen to this that you get through this piece deep in the PC says this my advice to progressives is that if they want religious conservatives to let go of their devotion to the Republican Party's platform. Progressives should weaken their commitment to unfettered abortion access.

The same goes for their support for gender fluidity and opposition to any person or institution that does not affirm such things as gay marriage until that happens, complaining about white evangelicalism and ascribing to it every imaginable authoritarian impulse will be like shouting into a void. No one will listen okay stop a minute why is Andrew Walker giving progressives advice on how to get evangelicals to vote for them.

Does that strike anybody is weird now because he's trying to put forward this argument all these progress all these pro-life evangelicals are not necessarily bad people are just reluctant Trump voters and deepen the PC gives advice to progressives on how they can get evangelicals to about them just back off on the gender fluidity stuff guys back up on the on your abortion access unfettered position that's weird isn't it. Okay then you have in the Washington Post, Michael Courson, Michael Courson.

He also has an overlap at the air LC he's done stuff of the air LC before and his piece in the Washington Post, is it is difficult for pro-lifers to vote Democrat, but it's better than okay so Chris is just coming out saying it in any talks about walkers, national review, and he says no no Walker you're being too you know. And unambiguous and you need to know understand that there are limiting principles here thinkers who in the world is listening to Michael Courson and I thought to myself that's a little weird. It's like a triangulation because both these guys overlap with the air LC and we know what the air LC thinks about evangelicals voting for Trump so is this just kind of a good cop bad cop scenario with these pieces appearing within days of one another and Walker can be the good cop.

See, I think it's okay for people I can vote for Trump at you guys can vote for Trump because there reluctant about it in any berries in the piece affect the progressives need to do more to get evangelical votes and then you have Courson say no Walker's wrong, you should be able to vote for a Democrat scary weird is then you have David French David French. Oh, David French, the ultimate never Trumper and David French writes a piece.

How then should Christians votes people ever get tired of their never Trump diatribes Wesley, is there nothing else to write about out the air just as I have not sat down and taken a full account of how many articles these guys have written on the subject, but I'm bored with their columns. I can imagine that they're fascinated with their columns at this point it's absolutely endless. His bottom line is he says let me answer with my voting philosophy. What I believe, advances a Christian biblical witness in the long term peace and prosperity of our national home in each race I impose a two-part test on candidates. First, they must possess a personal character that is worthy of the office they seek. Second, they must broadly share my political values if the candidate fails either prong of that test here. She doesn't receive my thought table good for you. You can be dumb and not vote, but I happen to think that that's a mistake because you had a candidate in 2016 who called Christians a basket of deplorable and thinks Christians are horrible. What you need to stay home and with the race is close is that one make sure that more people vote for the candidate who thinks Christians are deplorable and the party that has better work saying you know, we really ought to shut down those churches that they don't really get on the bandwagon with the LGBT step really want to hand things over to them.

That is fine. You know what we have freedom of conscience and we have freedom of religion and of David French wants to be dumb about voting.

He's perfectly within his rights to do that. But where do you get biblical justification for telling Christians that unless they meet your 12.

Never Trump French test that they should just you know that there were sitting. They need to stay home and not vote for anybody in all its crazy and then the worst part of the article is he says, given conservative evangelical stunning reversal on the importance of character and politicians do. They now owe Bill Clinton a heartfelt apology. No we don't, David.

We don't owe Bill Clinton apology. We don't owe you an apology.

We don't owe Michael Courson in the air. LC an apology or the Washington Post or the rest of this elitist cabal that is trying desperately to tell evangelicals that they can't both weigh that they wanted to votes, you know what, it's not even a reluctant Trump situation the way it was in 2016. I think it is more and more and more an enthusiastic trumpet that is coming out of the evangelical coalition and these guys are desperate to stop it. And what's really hilarious to me is I think much of anybody's listening to them and I think the 81% of white evangelicals who voted for Trump in 2016 is going to be much lower than what you're going to see in 2020. That's just my expectation because of how much Trump has done to undergird and support Christians.

The pro-life cause religious freedom is real and he has really gone to bat for Christians and they keep going back always us and we know we know and and not even to mention the fact that apparently they they don't think it's a problem that they just want to write them off and dismiss him instead of perhaps getting near to him sharing the gospel with him and praying for them to be saved. I mean, you know you didn't have a whole Lotta leftists failing to want to cozy up to Obama during those days going to be part of the religious elites that are close to the president.

I guess that only works if it's a leftist president in that group. Very weird, but I'm telling you working to get more this going into the election just batten down the hatches continue. That's why were here will keep you posted. Hey thanks a lot for listening to Janet Mefford today always wonderful to have you


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