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February 26, 2020 8:00 am
This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by pre-born for $140 you can provide ultrasounds to five women in crisis pregnancies. Call now 855402, baby.
That's 855-402-2229 or Janet Mefford.com is our confidence is in Christ alone, I saw you know of biblical illiteracy and unfortunately this is also true in the church. 60% of Americans can't even name five of the 10 Commandments, only 10% of Americans have been found to have a consistent biblical worldview and maybe that's why, in part, we see so many people believing things about God that simply are not true. What are some of those lies that people believe how do we answer them.
That's were to be exploring today with Dr. Chris Thurman. He is an author, speaker and psychologist who has been in private practice for over 25 years. He's out with a new book the lies we believe about God. Knowing God for who he really is. Chris is great to have you here. How are you today absolutely right you say and I think you're right about this that how we view God is the most important thing about us why you say that is well.
I think the fundamental way that we put reality. The key issue is we go through life and there is no more important issue about reality from who God is right, so I can't link it up to the beliefs that we hold are fundamentally what make or break a the enemy about to especially Marine. Our view of God, because then we go through life in a much more watered-down abundant way. Yes, very true. How widespread you think the problem is of people you talk to not really understanding who God is and having a distorted view of him is that fairly typical would you say or is it more rare. How often do you see that I don't mean flippantly but I would love a billion people. It's all said it's true all of us have distorted views of God. At times, but for those who are really distorting God do you tend to see that it's more emotionally based or more knowledge you lacking in knowledge about God.
Well, I don't know a good answer about I believe it more.
Actually better, meaning not like about the way but when were growing up. Fundamentally, not only how we are created.
But what we are taught in the direction of faulty view and so I do believe we don't show up in adults with a faulty view of God that's been in the kind of in the for a long time. By the time we realize what our faulty view bar.
We believe them for decades. If were not careful you talk about something called the killer peas in relationship to people having a distorted view of God talk a little bit about some of those killer piece well the perpetrator is one and that we warn not against flesh and blood, but against spiritual forces of darkness and one of the titles have flow from the time we get here. I think he's working.
However he can to believe things are not true. Again, not another psychobabble blind mom and dad way, but how we are parented. Given that we look at our parent God's small G1 were young, have a huge impact on whether or not we, God is loving or hateful or indifferent.
Thirdly, if we grow up in church, the preaching that we do, how we are taught you God and therefore, if God is portrayed accurately from the word then I think we grow up with a healthier view of who he really is. You portrayed accurately than we combined about and then to others.
I think we have a tendency to project our own negative qualities on the God he can't be any different from who we are and finally pride. I think all of me included, have attended to think that we got a pretty been pretty good bead on God when actually it is grossly just started how we view them, but I think our pride gets in the way about admitting that I think all that is all that is to an iPhone in especially first of all on what you said about parenting there are any number of people. For example, who will say my father was abusive. How can I ever see God as a father and wonder how they can ever bridge that gap. I feel it so strongly. My experience was so horrible I don't know, despite what the Bible says about God as father. I don't know if I can accept God as father. What you do to even help somebody work through that sort of an issue. Well, it is a very top.
It should work through wouldn't want to be no it all professional about it and in my role psychologist we are helping people all the time. Try to overcome the disruptive impact of an abusive upbringing but I do think what we can do really help people. If not, challenge them to believe that God is not who treated them and really get separated from every earthly person that we've ever run into because he is a wholly different never ever would be abusive and for to study him so deeply that after a while we wouldn't even think of God as being similar to the people that we run into down here that's right so it really requires you to get yourself out of your emotional ties as it were, and to rely on what the word of God tells us about God and who he is and for a lot of us did. To what extent do you think it's affected by the fact that we do see the statistics on biblical illiteracy that there simply are not as many of us as there used to be who really read and study the Bible.
Well, I think that is a huge issue in our day and age that quiet throughout the book with each lie that I cover. I challenge the reader. Please practice to Oakland with every lie study and meditation. I don't think any of the people who read this book are going to overcome these faulty beliefs about God. If they don't study to show that I felt approved and really drill down and what Scripture teaches about God and meditated on. Meditate on it day and night and then I add additional points throughout the book.
Yes you do want to dive into at least one lie before we have to go to our first break and that is the lie that God's love must be earned.
I don't know how in the world. We can ever come to that conclusion because that's the opposite God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever will believe in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. We also know that verse by now what is it that people will will thinking that way. I have to earn God's love well again I don't want to keep sounding like psychologist but I am but we we grow up. Actually in a conditionally loving world. I don't think we can suddenly magically do a 180 and think that God is any different. Even if we intellectually know that God's love can't be earned who he is, can't be raised or lowered by our action down in our God.
We don't think he's any different from anybody else that we have to jump through certain hoops for him to love more hurt along those lines. Have you heard anybody ever actually come up and say to you I just need to earn God's love or speak in that way. I have not heard very many if any people overtly come out and say that when I work with them over time. We always end up that way that they really think down and there got and so that you know all of us need to quit thinking that what we believe up in our mind is what we actually believe down were really matters right in and get a hold of the truth. Maybe, fundamentally, that God even says in his word that your mistake is you thought I was just like you and I try my thoughts are not your thoughts, my ways are higher than your ways. That seems to be a starting point where you say God is completely different than you are and and if you can understand that. Maybe you can make some progress towards what understand who he really is absolutely yeah so important mother a lot of other lies here that I want to get into and get Dr. Chris Thurman to comment on and maybe give us some guidance on how we can reject some of the lies we believe about God. It's the name of his book will be right back on Jennifer today story company comes nice to the real-life story of chart topping singer Jeremy, can I still believe reminds us that moves like storms can be found in Christ. He chose to walk into the fire is still Robert Christians losing their businesses for not making wedding cakes for homosexuals parents losing custody for not affirming their child's gender identity being taxed censoring Christian books, videos and social media posts. This is a dystopian nightmare. It's America in 2020 people do to respond to the sexual radicals is rising social and political power is threatening our religious freedom and our free speech. It's time for Christians to get informed about the looming threats that were facing. Learn how to respond as both salt and light like to personally invite you to join me at our second annual God's voice conference. A biblical response to LGBT Q plus tyranny coming to the city on April 17 and 18th. You'll hear from an unprecedented lineup of some of the leading Christian thinkers, pastors, profamily activist and medical and therapeutic experts were fighting on the front lines of this battle and standing firmly on God's word in the face of going LGBT Q plus opposition to Christianity. Let me tell you, there's nothing else like God's voice conference to get his right to stand in this evil day, so I hope to see you at the God's voice conference and outreach first on ministries April 17 and 18th in Oklahoma City and take it manage of our early bird discount registration only $85 through March 1. So don't delay go to God's voice .us that's God's voice .us and register for a conference unlike any other God's voice .us and register now. Now is God's voice, listening to now we are back on Jennifer today glad you're here were talking about a very important subject. The name of the book the lies we believe about God. Knowing God really is by Dr. Chris Thurman who is joining us, Chris. We're talking about the lie that often people will embrace that God's love must be earned, and this is tied in many cases to the idea that since love is conditional on earth that must be how God works. What about God is is a shame are one of the anecdotes that you share here in this chapter is about of all people Adolf Hitler. How does Adolf Hitler tie into this idea that God is a shame or well. I opened with the glory not have a little bit of an improvement Oracle figure and his upbringing was incredibly shaming and you know for it to translate into him becoming one of the most evil people to ever walk the planet is me trying to heighten everybody's aware the enemy shame and condemnation, and the enemy would like all to believe that God is well. How was he seemed specifically, he had an abusive father who really emotionally, verbally, physically abusive. He had an overindulgent mother who basically again indulged and so he ended up with this kind of rather shame, but based of thinking too highly of himself and to lowly of himself and I think the enemy took advantage of that split up to get him operating out of the shame and that's what happens with on a different level, but I think we walk around with a lot of feelings of shame were just totally worthless. You know, horrible, awful, no good, were not worthy of love Thursday problem in a relationship with anybody else. It's got to be our fault can be about them and so not chapter I try to take people into again first thing know intellectually but don't really believe down America like God made you fearfully and wonderfully so. And that's the opposite of somebody trying to shame you to let you know that your bear and you are precious you are the apple of his equipped you with abilities and talents, and adopted you and family and forgiven your again the opposite of the shaming God's hand wipe the whack you whenever you step out of line right and you know it's interesting because this brings up something that is good to differentiate on the one hand we are sinners if we weren't sinners, we wouldn't need a Savior. But on the other hand, God is not like the shaming abusive father. What's wrong with you you stank your horrible you bring you no disgrace upon the family that sort of thing is that the sort of shaming the people have in mind when they believe the lie that God is a shame that God is just mean and and maybe sort of you know, just evil in that way rather than dealing with sin in a loving way by taking our place on the cross and a lot of people don't make that God being righteous and holy absolutely hate them. But a lot of believe that EA center. He hates his own image bearers and that he is delighted to rob our faith and our depravity rather than those whom you love right he is not sadistic, absolutely God's sovereignty is control of the world. The Bible is very clear about this, that God is in a Lord over everything he is Lord of all and yet there are many people who will believe the lie that because something goes wrong in my life or something went terribly wrong over here that God has lost control. How can anybody I guess I am problem with this because I never wrestled with this one, but how can anybody believe if there is a God, and we know who he is, from Scripture that at any point in history.
He loses control. If he lost control.
How could he ever be God. Well, yeah, I think it's another sample of how what we know up in our mind is not what we really believe and are more fallen human deeper way of thinking, and so here I'm trying to challenge people that there is a part of you, whether you will admit to it or not that looks at the world how chaotic and out of control.
It looks and how evil is so rampant and you are not careful will think that God has lost his sovereignty that he is no longer is not all-powerful is not all-knowing and not everywhere want and so a lot of people and that's very revealing when you run into a tragedy because tragedy will have a way of viewing God can't be God if he didn't stop that from happening or if he permitted me to run into a horrible thing, the God issue to me crucial for us to get back to a higher view of God, absolutely, and this ties into another line you discuss which is that God is mean and vindictive. For example, if you have a child die or you know mom who has six kids and the father dies in a car accident or something like that.how could you have done this, you know how much I need this person. It's not fair. This is awful, but not to be uncaring about it but really when you pull back from whatever it the specific issue is all of us understand that we all will die because of sin were in a fallen world. There are no promises made to us that everybody gets to live to the age of 100, we know that intellectually, but on a personal level that can hurt you bridge that gap between the reality of it, and yet conveying to the person God loves you.
He cares about you in the midst of your pain and he uses suffering in your life as a Christian. Well, what I try to do about my practice book not only go to the attribute of the goodness of God, and tried to push all of to realize because he is good he can't possibly be the opposite, which would be to be mean and vindictive, but I also tried to drive home the idea that God permit free will, and therefore if something happens to you. The bad, please don't blame God. Okay, just amazing how often believers will even how could God do this to me like you view God so hateful that he would do something evil to you or can we attribute that either to the enemy directly or people being by the enemy and doing things that are mean evil and cruel. It seems to come back to the argument. Like you mentioned before Don could have stopped it though Don could've stopped at yes so-and-so got in the car and he was drunk and he got into an accident and he killed somebody and that's a tragedy.
But God could've stopped him yet. That's a wrestling. Is it because on the one hand we want to be able to make choices. And yet we want to blame everything on God.
When our choices don't turn out the way we want them to. Well I think you're the real tender spot of it all, which God could have stopped, but there I try to talk my client and making a tension between the permissive will of God and God will of God right and given that he created free will, even to his own son's death on the crawl going to permit things to happen that even he doesn't desire and therefore we don't want to know be hypocritical like where okay if he permit nice things to happen to but were not okay if he permit bad thing like so yeah yeah I don't think we can have our cake and eat it too long and we can't ignore that God has dealt with the problem that ails our world and that is sin. He's dealt with it and we are awaiting the final consummation of things, you know, if you think about it if he were to stop everything to make my life perfect that that would be the end things right because were still awaiting that final you know, wonderful, and of all time where Christ will rule and reign and that we will be with him, and there will be no more sin that's coming – also gives us hope in the midst of trial and tribulation that the it's not always going to be this way about why we have our hope for what's coming and try to with dignity and integrity handle the bad things that happen while rear yes, now let's go to the lie about God ignoring our disobedience is kind of a laugh presence and he's everything we do, and omniscient, knows everything. How in the world can people believe God ignores our disobedience. Is it just I'm better than the guy down the street so got a kinda wink like a grandpa and put me on his lap and that's okay son, don't worry about what you just did wrong. Well if they don't fall into the ignore it. I think the permutation on that particular lie about their ego that he noted turn a blind eye and so in that chapter of the book. I try to drive home the idea of the gods wrath is another attribute, and that he loved too much to ignore hard disk obedience. No parent in their right mind would raise a kid in that way because you know you turn out horribly instructive antisocial person so it's really important to actually shift your thinking to good thing metaphorically when I get a speeding ticket, because that way I am a little bit more careful about my driving. Yes, that's a good analogy for me.
Yes, every officer really sorry you and I always seem to get pulled over by the police officer who sees me going 40 in a 30 and I think I'll wasn't even really speeding that rise right, but it's true. It's good for us and it does slow us down and it makes us consider how gracious and how wonderful and merciful God is toward us in spite of our failures and our sins and all of our weaknesses sometimes do cause us to embrace some of these lies will the name of the book is the lies we believe about God. Knowing God for who he really is and you can get the book and you can read more about some of these other lies that we didn't have time to get to, but it was just so good to be talking with Dr. Chris Thurman about all of these lies and the study and meditation that we all need to do in the word of God.
Chris, thank you so much for being here was great to talk to you that you are absolutely God bless will be right back on Janet Mefford today. This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by pre-born for $140 you can provide ultrasounds to five women in crisis pregnancies. Call now 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or Janet Mefford.com here's your host Joe for today. What is a public school teacher to do when the students he's trying to teach her out of control and what is that teacher to do when standard methods of dealing with problem students either are working or he isn't allowed to fully employ those methods while my next guest offers an insider's perspective on the problem and proposes a solution as well. Think a Henderson is a former teacher he's current writer for showtimes.
The shy and the name of his latest book is sit down and shut up, how discipline can set students very think it's great to have you with us. Thank you so much. Talk to you about this. I find this really interesting because you have been a substitute teacher.
I know in some of the toughest schools in America. Time is a sub come about here you are in film and TV, writing, and you're also a substitute teacher. You don't well I'm kind of world. As a writer I got my bill but I do write him a bit of a bomb.
I me I be in the morning and that going off my Bay charter school charter school couple days a week. My parents were educated and so and I always been involved with during even in college, and I always like one might give me a way to organize my day a week and so I did it I signed up with the school have a both a wonderful time but also an opening anecdote about him. On my first day to you know called me about called me everything but a child of God.
While in the crazy part of the amount of my class. I put them out together captivates an amount and then back in my class okay to return to class: home I know what insulation brought about proper and I thought will what their opening thing that really a question can you write a book you really can't answer a question though that would come in the very beginning and it took me on kind of a crazy journey and understand the issues both mainly a kind of classical well the level what their universal universal truth that they could one would gotta behave this matter where what's cooler than wood, with parochial school public to private school in the tubing came in that way and I found that it was terrific because one day I'd be in a poor public school in the next day I'd be in a rich private school in West LA be in a Jewish Orthodox conservative school been a Jewish Orthodox Jewish sort of more liberal environment and you really gotta looking to allow a different environment working, what was working the race. Well, that would that would maybe send me right out of the classroom. If I had a student do that to me and just can't call me names and go off on me did that sort of thing occurred during your time as a sub well you know I'm a pretty good when you meet I don't play a lot again.
How I do want to make a point on map American black.
I do want to say that even though my poor black and poor land theories, universal problem not even clearly thought there is a component of poverty in what poor old school and why along the Appalachian Trail in the Midwest for dealing with some of the upper middle class schools. This freedom of the license of a young young kids are young and feel that they have two adult yes and everywhere different versions and really rich schools really for the rich upper-class school, but there is a version of it Seattle today for the key walking to class and having his plan. Why God why she walked you not you I'm not going anywhere and she set down and just started calling Bork technical interval in his class and he couldn't get it really so universal, but it gets worse. Where there is poverty and I can tell you one of the opening stories and there's another aspect to my book is primarily about black and Latin inner city schools with the fascinating thing that I think related to what going on in the Midwest today. I was driving I was talking to a teacher at this particular school that I took on a long term if I'm going to school every student who was always like the teacher on me right in. What happened you know how did we get here because we thought all happened all the time when we were younger we never know when I will be a couple things one that was very dramatic driving home one day and the wife would be good baby was on NPR and the interviewer asked them what what was the impact of crack cocaine coming into your neighborhood and he told crack. If everyone knows when he was young and he said the most thinking that I never heard that it destroyed the authority figure really now what I listen more than I thought to do research because of the mandatory drug that were given to drug abuse which we all kind of cheerful on some level, fundamentally they shifted the feeling of crack cocaine, young adult, you would go to jail for 10 years. If you were a kid you go for three month and then be back on the street and so cocaine was really a child economy and their economy. You cannot underestimate the impact of crack cocaine on poor inner city neighborhood with those that would like the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse and they were the ones making the money and because crack was filled with adults with the one the bracing themselves for the crack okay and so I read it in the first chapter I say look this is something that we have to look out now. Yes, we have to look at that in the impact of having as much as we want to look at both Dr. company for what there'd be putting that poison into the street.
We gotta make sure responding to that in the best way to always backup never knew that that that that raises the stakes right there when you learn about the child economy and crack cocaine in an obviously I mean I'm white so that's not a world I run a necessarily but then that's important education for all of us to know that's going on and on poor, black, working-class black, never really but when I fall out from it were white would not call incursion into port in the community and the way young people fall adult youth who were dealing 20 years ago, but I'm thinking yes they grew up with the frame because crack over the same way that we would be taken over those white poor inner found in the Midwest crack cocaine wife to go in the jobless and drug addiction that that compound with devastating look back and people would ever thought you and Rob, what if a lot of fighting between five things that I think opening is affecting primarily poor white crack cocaine, primarily the poor black poor Latin is something to learn from sheer difficult experience for sure really point yeah and that's one thing I hope the book the book of the book. It really is honest.
But also I think I think I'll try to deal with the folks with very very true to come back and talk about that sinking Henderson with us is looking sit down and shut off, how discipline consents to healthcare open enrollment period has ended.
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He's talking a little bit about his experience in some of America's toughest schools in his book sit down and shut up, how discipline can set students free.
You are laying out for us and K before we went to the break.
The fact that you have the drug problem. The crack cocaine.
The child economy and that how that informs the situation and a lot of these tougher maybe you know urban environments that you've been in and that you've taught in, but as you mentioned before, you have a problem with erasure of the line between adult and child all over this country and I've seen this to all kids. I mean, I'm sound is to some extent where the they just don't respect adults for being adults, and people talk about things.
Also like the impact of TV where you see the bumbling father on the sitcoms or the breakdown of the family you think those things play into this lack of discipline that your scene when you're standing in front of a classroom full of students are part of a black eye group in a working-class environment where they would complete authority. You know why black matter, one of the things that happened that I realize one weekend early on the liberal side of things would become a universal truth. One thing that will happen.
What I'm going to one school with school not far from you. And like any of the old Wimberley for you. Don't get together and they looked at me and you can have a like to play try to hold them and then later on, the administrator came and said we don't do that.
I could never like to play what they were talking. Well, maybe none United Nations passed something called the declaration of the rights of the child and what they are there many that are terrific their child of the right to a name that the beautiful thing that will like to be safe from child aggressive child labor and to be conscripted in the war you know all the right education. All things no matter who you are.
You will accept and agree but they also they also fled to the temple right to freedom of speech, who have the right to partner their own religion or know my bit of a preacher woke up it not my going to work about a map he would've that would happen exactly what account have a right to play all that where they got it from." I get the court in the nature of all young mammals likely to want to place in which you will have a like to play over. You're right and obligation to yes like a play that can neutralize adult like to pull you back in the line and flow universally thing going on. Again, no matter the class no matter the amount of income level and I think you're right with some of the cultural thing you know we do in this economy we do play to what is like and what kids want beautiful advertisers what the 19-year-old what do you know 18 to 35-year-old you and the family. The crack cocaine was in the inner city, Taba, driven by what you whatever type of market and you know the one that should be driving exactly exactly because we were charged as adults with making sure that they turn into responsible adults not making sure they're all broken assaults and they get everything they want. Now now now now now. I mean, that's a recipe for disaster.
And I agree with you that discipline is so important, the question is how do you make that happen in the classroom when there are so many challenges, not just with the kids being disrespectful but sometimes even with the administration in a school that says well you can't really clamp down on the kid how do you advise teachers to deal with that teachers in the public school who can relate to what you're talking about, well, you know, really. I try to go with and with the with the book talk about both policy why individually but with both broad and there's one in Africa, for example fatherless boys to go out father to be a little more radical forgiving so you know we have. I think the black neighborhood, for example, only 2% of black men and I think maybe 20% are men. I know a lot of people like old tinted of the matter matter. You know, and in the presence of men in public school can be helpful in just one look with the rehab population so that try to recruit more men. I think into more than just abundantly helpful and I think can be beneficial to have a general I don't think there's any environment that you have.
You know that women only temper equipment you know every imbibing the gender parity, not 100% what you like to do. Especially I think you are saying in the book. At one point, you know, it's hard for mom if you just have a mom at home to wrestle a gun from you. You know overpower you if you are in big THR unit when I realized that in Revelation that I had. I was watching the middle school and one complaint all on word about my dad. We can because he punches me when Matt and another one for me to.
I knew that they were wagging.
If you don't know how boys talk middle school what they were back about father was on Twitter and this older black blackout with the matter that happened with him followed what age were you when you challenge the authority figure. The male authority figure in your in your life and their correspondence from you guys would like I was 13. I will call it my dad and not me on the floor. My best friend, the response and I realize that what was going on was when boy puberty and they're bigger than their mom stronger than their mom faster than a mom and again in the back of their mother, they could actually work their mom went back to being a more direct even kill their mom if they really fit them onto it. They think subconsciously that they are an adult.
They think they're meant that just the nature of gender and here for gender equality. I'm here for you not want people to be who they are but mom cannot at a certain age cannot cannot overpower her son but if you have a dad and you talk to him luck with your chest picks you up off your feet, you will owe. I'm not I'm not an adult yet exactly. Exactly important Down the words of his belief and maturity. It's a great insight is true, and I mean this points out the difference between mom and dad. I might have lived that have a 63 son who 17 years old and I can attest to these big on me why really great thinker and one randomly settled and ready for boys who grow up without fathers in the neighborhood with our father turn out okay so it made me think what life will boy grows up without a father and other name other boys on our father and that very problem in poor communities, white and black and gone old the ecological mechanism for boys need someone whether the dad or father figure to say watch it the boundaries they mean those boundaries and so again one of the prescriptions in the book you more mail figure in their lives in the school thought about every guy. Boys will respond to me in a way that they just would not respond to female teacher. It is the chance the reverse with the girls. I thought of the little girl gave me the full sunny and that. When you're moving from fifth grade and middle school when you're home wrong again turn into if you do different time relationship with your body, relationship psychology that comes in relation to adult and me that MS is one of the one of the book that we really need to make public schools are more welcome place for the male plug, you know women I have done remarkable things about the problem so I know we want to downplay the importance man are equally important in the development board. Anger absolutely no. I agree completely. I I think you're right on the money about that and I think there's a generation of kids who are coming along who desperately want those boundaries and they want because that's in in large measure, how they know that the adults in their lives care about them and I think this is a really important book in that regard. It's called sit down and shut up, how discipline can set students free sinking Henderson with I think it was great to have you here really really appreciate your being with us in the audit gonna get that book going about it. Sounds great. Thanks again thinking really appreciate it all right. You see, God bless you and will see next time here and today our website is always suggested is available.com