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Janet - Mefferd - Today - Andrew Davis (Sanctification) Denise Shick (Transgenderism)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd
The Truth Network Radio
February 27, 2020 8:00 am

Janet - Mefferd - Today - Andrew Davis (Sanctification) Denise Shick (Transgenderism)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd

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February 27, 2020 8:00 am

How do we glorify God throughout our lives? Dr. Andrew Davis joins me to talk about Christlikeness and his book, "An Infinite Journey." Plus: Is there a way out and through transgenderism for those struggling with it and for their family members? Denise Shick, founder of Help 4 Families, joins me to discuss it and her book, "It is Well With My Soul." That's on Thursday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This archived broadcast of Janet for today is brought to you by pre-born for $140 you can provide ultrasounds to five women in crisis pregnancies. Call now 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or, our confidence is in Christ alone. I sort of know is my next guest notes when journey is the external want of gospel advance the other one is the internal one of our sanctification process of God conforming us to the image of Jesus Christ in all areas of life. As the apostle Paul urged the Ephesians in chapter 4 of that great epistle put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

How do these journeys intertwine and why are they so important for us to understand from a biblical perspective. While that is what we will be talking about today with Dr. Andrew Davis. He is senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Durham in North Carolina and author of the book will be discussing called an infinite journey growing toward Christ likeness.

Great to hear any.

Thank you so much for being with us. You know I like that you talk about these two infinite journeys and you sort of explain why you say there infinite because of course people will say will wait a minute. My sanctification will eventually end right one with Christ. Well, not perhaps the best term infinite. I was a mechanical engineer.

I know from mechanical engineering, and mathematics. It does imply that it will never get there, but I believe with all my heart that both of these journeys. The internal journey of sanctification and the external journey of gospel advance will in fact be completed but the thing is I want people to know that working to be about the both of these journeys till the day we are done on earth the church is going to have to do them, but they're never going to be finished and furthermore that it takes an infinite power supply. It takes Jesus Christ himself working in us through the spirit. None.

None of us can do even a single step of advancing either journey without that infinite power supply sort I stick with that word infinite. I just want people to know were to be doing these as long as were on earth, absolutely. I think you're right about that little bit about this first journey that you mention this external journey that working on. How would you describe, that's the journey of gospel advance from that upper room in Jerusalem where Jesus poured out Holy Spirit on the church and and then the church spilled out in acts chapter 1 verse eight he said you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, even to the ends of the earth and nothing going on there for 2000 years and it's been marvelous to see and we feel effectually accelerating the last hundred years. Missions of just exploded more and more people are hearing the gospel.

It's a very exciting time to be alive. So really has to do with evangelism and missions, absolutely. And the good thing to know when you're talking about that external journey is it reinforces the point that when you become a Christian. It's not all individual. It's also part of being in the body of Christ on a mission involves all of us absolutely were all part of the body of Christ, the universal church in their brothers and sisters in Christ all over the world are hearing and believing the same gospel and that really is thrilling and I think only when we see that multitude greater than anyone can count that it talks about in Revelation 7 working to see the full effect of the external journey, absolutely. So let's turn our attention to this internal journey of sanctification, which you actually point out, I think you're right about this that this is sort of a neglected emphasis of the church. We put a lot of emphasis on evangelism and missions and outreach, not as much on personal holiness being conformed to the image of Christ growing in godliness what you think were at that place is a church. Well I think it's easier to measure baptismal people making that initial commitment of faith and I do believe we can instantaneously have all of our sin forgiven through faith in Christ and that's justification by faith but denies that hard work of becoming gradually conformed to Christ and it is an easy and you know Chuck Swindoll wrote a book, three step forward two steps back and have a sense of that and it's it's difficult that's what shepherding is all about.

I'm a pastor and and where we work with a team of pastors and want to see people making making growth in personal holiness and putting some of that but it's very hard to measure and habits of the essence of the great commission Jesus said you and in Matthew 28. You will be will make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father son and Holy Spirit.

And then he said this, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

And that's the internal journey. That's just gradual consistent obedience to everything Christ has commanded us to absolutely please mention justification which is our salvation. Obviously, that we accept the forgiveness of Christ is work on the cross and also he was raised to life justification that you have a chapter on our great salvation and of course you can't really understand sanctification unless we understand our salvation. But what we need to know about what Christ has done for us before we can really understand sanctification. Everything is based on the finished work of Christ on the cross. We believe that Jesus is the son of God who was born of the Virgin Mary, lived a sinless life and who completely and perfectly obeyed the law of God on our behalf and earned for us a righteousness that we could never earn. We cannot perfectly keep the law. We don't perfectly keep it and then he died in our place.

The judgment and wrath that we deserve for having violated God's laws, and then he was raised from the dead on the third day, which we as Christians just celebrate. We celebrate every Sunday, but just Easter Sunday we celebrate read the resurrection of Christ, and that is the finished work of redemption that Christ is given to us, but that having come to believe in that and be adopted as his sons and daughters and having all sins forgiven were then left in this world and part of that is that internal journey of growing more and more like Christ.

And it's a difficult journey.

It's it's hard. You see your own sinfulness. We struggle with with indwelling sin. And it's just very comforting to know that that our performance doesn't change your standing with God.

We are at every moment accepted in Christ and justified forgiven. That's right, but I have always put it this way said when you become a Christian you cite sin that's what's difference when went before you knew Christ in you, send you didn't care you walked in the flash you gratify the desires of the flesh. Now that you belong to Christ. That's the starting point out again this is not something I hear a lot of emphasis on fighting sin and that that is the natural condition of the Christian preaching through Ephesians and yesterday was preaching in Ephesians chapter 5 on on the issue of sexual sin and how sad it is that many evangelical churches. The statistic shows not a lot of difference in the young people and how they behave in terms of purity and it could be that Paul says right there in Ephesians. Do not let anyone deceive you with empty words and for me as a pastor I don't wanted to see people I want to tell them that salvation is something that comes to us in stages. We have been saved. The Bible says we are being saved and we will be saved their time aspects of a justification we think of in terms of past it's done that it doesn't need to be changed can be improved upon. And in that justification righteousness, we will stand on Judgment Day. But then, having done that, we must put sin to death by the spirit. It says in Romans eight and if were not putting sin to death by the spirit we actually are not children of God, that the clear implication. Romans 813 of 14 so we want to say that clearly the people in the church is there to help them do it to help them mortify sin habits and grow in grace and the knowledge of Christ. Absolutely so many passages back that up what you say to new Christians or somebody who isn't even a believer about the necessity of sanctification because there is this element in the church these days that says it's all grace from beginning and I can't, you know, as you mentioned there before. I can't possibly perform to the extent they got expects the Christ did it all for me so I should really worry about it. What you say about that. Well I think of the gospelů The bent of most of the folders so clearly written to Christians are written to the church but teaching them holiness and I think people like that just don't seem to have an understanding of the whole work of salvation coming to us in stages. Step by step and fill my desires to tell them the truth, to show them in the book of Romans how these things are unfolding how justification leads to sanctification how they are related. I should think the relationship between the two of them how they related justification.

Think vacation how they're different is very much of the essence of a good teaching ministry by a pastor.

I agree and I know there are some disagreements in the house of Christendom on the issue of where justification is active nation separate and how you tell the difference, etc. but what will be your position on the difference between justification and sanctification.

The role of works. I think all our work no role in justification, we are absolutely not forgiven ever for any sin by something that we do.

You can other way.

I say that you can't use present and future obedience to God's law to pay for past disobedience to God's will. It just never works that way we can never do better than what God has commanded and there's no extra credit on any given day. So once we violated the law. We are ready to be condemned and that's where were saved by Christ. And so our works don't play any role whatsoever in justification or effort plays no role that simply by faith by grace through faith, sanctification, were told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Philippians 2 for it is God who works in us to will and to act and so there's a partnership there a partnership between us God, the holy absolutely, and there's so much more will be talking about regarding sink to the occasion when we come. Ranger Davis's book and incident journey growing toward Christ today. After this, the healthcare open enrollment period has ended.

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Call 855402 baby now 855-402-2229. That's 855402, baby. There's a banner to click enchantment you're listening for today talking about growing toward Christ likeness. A great book. It's called an infinite journey by Dr. Andrew Davis, senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Durham in North Carolina and we were talking about the difference between justification and sanctification, and I think you said this very well. Justification is accomplished for us, but there is a partnership aspect to sanctification that we are to work out our salvation with fear and traveling. Not that we are working our way to salvation by what we are doing, but it is us cooperating walking in the spirit and use. You talk about these four different headings. This cycle is were moving toward Christian maturity. Starting with knowledge, so where do we begin and understanding this cycle growing toward maturity right knowledge. I find it factual and experiential spiritual information comes by reading the Bible and by living in God's world and start with the key verse Romans 1017. Faith comes by hearing the word and so our faith comes as we understand and read and absorb the biblical message but it also comes from living God in God's world is Jesus said, consider the lilies of the field are certain things we just learn from living in those to prime the pump for everything that follows based on knowledge then comes faith and increase of biblical knowledge causes our faith to rise and to grow and so knowledge plus faith together transformed character that internal hard nature, character and heart would be equivalent terms.

For me, and then out of a transform heart. We live a different kind of life. When we talk about having factual knowledge. We are not obviously talking about mere knowledge has been saving. It is just a link in the chain, so to speak, right.

Well, there are a lot of people that would have factual knowledge but if they don't have faith in the not saved so the knowledge has to lead to faith in Christ and I define faith in the book in five sub bullets.

But ultimately it has to do with the ability to see invisible spiritual things, primarily the work of Christ, even visible to us, like a pheasant first Peter one we've not seen him though we have not seen them love him and so that the primary thing is faith in this invisible Savior Christ, and we see him crucified and resurrected by faith. When we read the biblical account. So when were talking about the basics of knowledge. People will say why necessarily to have to be this great theologian to be a Christian.

But what are the basics of the basic sacs you must know and believe. To begin this journey of becoming a Christian and actually being sanctified right will first I would say that person you don't have much typical knowledge to be a Christian but you do have to have a lot of biblical knowledge to be mature, and so the book I'm talking about is the pathway to spiritual maturity or conformity to Christ likeness. So our desires that we not leave infants in their infancy, but that they would grow up to be able to take the full meat of the word.

Everything that the Bible teaches all things that are taught in the Scriptures, even the hardest doctrines everything so we just don't want to leave people drinking milk decades into their Christian walk. We want them to grow. But if you're asking what they need to know at the beginning. It's all those things focuses we've Artie said even today on Christ done on who he was on his his death his resurrection. Those of the beginning doctrines that you have to accept to be a Christian very good and you also highlight another source of spiritual truth, you have to have experiential knowledge sure limits on that because we live in sometimes and overemotional experiential sort of worlds. But what what are you talking about that. Will Janet honestly to do some things that we have to live through in order to learn for a very good example of this is suffering you have to go through suffering in order to be mature as a Christian.

That's why James says in James chapter 1 consider it pure joy whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance and first perseverance must finish its work so you will be mature for this book is about maturity and you have to go through suffering to get the maturity you can't read about in a book you don't gain really that much benefit from other people suffering in terms of your own thing to because you can read about how martyrs died in others we can get strengthened but that's really so that we can go through suffering. Well, just some things that we have to live through in order to grow.

That's great. Although I I'm laughing in a way, I completely agree with you but I'm laughing in a way because that's so against the spirit of the age. The idea that if your again is using people misunderstand Christianity, Jesus will be wonderful and he'll make my life better and I'll get rich and I'll be healed and all that and suffering obviously is all over the Bible, but it's not something again that we hear a lot talking now but will call the prosperity gospel health and wealth gospel asserted against the false teaching.

I think it's very plain that we grow mostly through suffering.

God is wise and mixing up very sweet times in our lives, but for the most part it's those afflictions and suffering for causes to cast ourselves more and more on God. Absolutely. So when we get to the portion that we we talked about a little bit safety assurance and the conviction of the spiritual truths you we have the certainties you mentioned that invisible spiritual realities are true and the assurance of things hoped for a Scripture says, what does biblical faith look like in an individual human being what what should we look for.

I like the eyesight of the soul. So, by which we see invisible spiritual realities that are taught in the Bible.

So if there's many, many verses that link faith and fight for example one versus as we walk by faith not by sight. So it should directly compares it says in Ephesians 1.

Paul prays that the eyes of our hearts would be enlightened, so that we would know various aspects of our salvation. I think the eyes of the hardest faith and so it works this way that we are able to see physically invisible things and so the first being the biblical facts that are that are taught, past, present and future. The facts of the gospel effects of the Red Sea crossing in the Jewish nation, the things we read in the Bible is what history there and so we believe that those things are really true, they really happened, especially Genesis 11 in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

We just believe that by faith and then things present that there is an invisible God, and that their angels and demons, and in all of these things. The Bible teaches about the present spiritual reality in the future. The second coming of Christ. Judgment day and eternity in heaven or hell. Those things are all taught and we receive them by faith and is that conviction of sin. I'm so glad that you included that that it will do something to you. It's not just merely I believe this I process this, but it actually is something that you do experience right the word convict. In Hebrews 11 one. Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

II take it to be similar to a court trial would talk about something being convicted and I think that's how the Greek word is used.

It has to do with evidence of sin or or or reproof, rebuke for sin.

And so the point I'm making there as it is by faith we see ourselves and we see ourselves as sinners in need of a Savior and frankly and think vacation. The more you go on the more vivid you have a sense of your own sinfulness. It doesn't become blessed becomes greater and we have more and more sensitively. Jesus said the 10,000 talents that we have been forgiven by God, and I think only when we were first saved. We thought we ought about 100 bucks and by the time we get to the end light pulses and the greatest of all sinners in the face of the earth wasn't just using rhetoric. I think you really believe that if anyone he was one most needing the saving work of Christ. Absent conviction of sin.

Yes it sure is in your absolutely right.

The longer you go is a Christian. The more you see how sinful you really are and yeah absolutely right. So this leads to character and this is another key elements of the pathway to Christian maturity. When you are in the process of being sanctified by God and you are walking in the spirit.

What kind of characters.

Should you be seen in the life of the Christian right to go to the word. I have read in the book Christ likeness want to be conformed to Christ character again mentioned a few moments ago, I would say a biblical biblical word part our inner nature. Who are we really inside that starts with affection or love what you love and what we hate.

You know Jesus boiled it all down to these two great commandments to love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself is Jonathan Edwards the taught me that affection has to do with the attraction repulsive repulsion of the heart, almost like a magnet to a greater or less degree. So what you what you love and what you hate says a lot about who you truly are as a person.

That's right. And it is really I think it needs to be emphasized also that this is a lifelong process it. I think it's easy sometimes to read what your great book and go.

This is wonderful and then feel all I'm never going to get there. You know the irony.

There is, for example, if you're growing in humility. If you start to recognize your groin and humility are not growing in humility. So yeah so it's to take your own temperature. How do you advise Christians on how do I know if I'm going to character one thing I think the entire work of salvation, justification and sanctification and glorification deeply humbled us in the end were going to get to heaven and Jesus save me and were to be so humble about that. And sanctification is a very humbling process that you don't grow greater and greater and greater in your own estimation. It really is at opposite kind of journey really what happens is Christ grows greater and greater in your estimation, but it it's very humbly.

I was as I was writing the book. I remember one particular chapter. I got to one point and I would look at what I'd written. I said, I believe all this is true in biblical but I'm not living this. I actually literally started to cry right there to keyboard work this and make change me that's that's the effect it has on yeah were like that absolutely so this leads to action. Obviously, and there's personal obedience that's involved positive and negative obedience. What's the distinction there, sure. So Sen. send of omission, omissions or omission of things that we were told to do that were commanded to do that we do not do and then their sense of of local mission where we been forbidden to do something. So when people think of holiness.

They generally go immediately to the negative things that were told not to do and that is true. There are many very important things that were told to forget be holy. We must never do these things. They must not be part of our lives at all and I zero in on four key areas of purity in terms of negative sanctification, sexual purity, speech purity, purity in relationships and the impurity and lawful pleasures.

These four areas are really important.

They don't cover everything but they get a lot of there's a lot of issues there with sexual purity, something we really need in our age. These days, and then speech purity James that if you're perfect in what you say your perfect man, able to control the whole flow of your life and then relational. By that I mean free from unforgiveness and bitterness that corrupts so many relationships and then lawful pleasures that we would be self-controlled in the area of recreations and videos and all the things that we entertain ourselves, absolutely.

I think there's also great wisdom in pointing out the positive aspects of obedience that we need to be worshiping the Lord in and be in prayer in and doing ministry to believers and beyond. You know, make sure that missions is part of what were trying to do in evangelism all the things that we know, but a wonderful buck.

I'm so sad were out of time addicted Dr. Andrew Davis, thank you so much for being with us today, my pleasure. Thank you again the name of the book and infinite journey growing toward Christ likeness will be back right after this. This archived broadcast of Janet for today is brought to you by pre-born for $140 you can provide ultrasounds to five women in crisis pregnancies. Call now 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or Janet map here's your show for today great to have you here. You might have heard this story out of Indiana recently in which a heist design for refusing to call transgendered students by their new opposite sex names and this is just the latest chaos to erupt out of the push to normalize transgender is him but for those who have experienced transgender is him up close. There is an important story to tell about misplaced compassion and the greater damage that it can cause and working to talk about that today with Denise Scheck she is the founder and Executive Director of help for families, a nonprofit Christian ministry helping people struggling with gender confusion and their families. She's out with a new book.

It is well with my soul finding God's peace in the transgender storm and Denise it's great to have you here. How are you doing it's great to have you here. I am curious to ask you what you make of these sorts of stories where increasingly you're seen teachers in trouble because they won't use opposite sex names for you know wrong sax or you'll have these issues like that that couple that lost custody of their daughter because they didn't want it put her through hormone therapy. I me what you think about the insanity that his really ensued over this issue of transgender is on our world that people do not want to hear the word and how it will trigger or to act on how your constant feel is right or wrong for people to be pushed into a jar more relaxed and have no way it were prompt accusing people on the fact that their moral values.

Now it's just awful. And this is the way it's going, it's not so much that they started out with his transgender rights movement. Well, we just want to have rights and increasingly its rights that they want.

That will encroach upon other people's freedoms and wondering what your thoughts are on why this is being normalize. Why are people going along with it and why are the activists pushing this so hard to think they are normal life. I hope it really spiritual battle that were happening here people that believe in Christ and believe in the holy Scripture holy that no one for the trip for a Christian you don't you know you would be getting married can and where were going with Emily anywhere on the right. Over all the help and to put order into their world.

Yes that's right answer those people who don't know much about you Denise, I know we talked before about your experience with your father, but briefly can you share what your background is pertaining to transgender is M and what occurred in your family are so wet that struggling my mouth with my own.

I got it will will I know I really you try to provide myself now and trying to figure out my own right, but without it I started growling like my father had been in the home environment was very difficult to say the least, very confusing and acting out when he when I got to for anything.

He started to kick my clothing into the where to cry but had no private as well. Even if Henry actually mother like an alcoholic father did not.

There is a very deep there were other. He may want to escape history right that's so awful. And of course this was a time when you were a little girl that you didn't normally have people with gender dysphoria getting hormone treatments and sex change operations.

That wasn't anything close to normal years ago. So how did his transgender is a manifest itself is gender dysphoria. What sorts of things. Did your father do as you mentioned he wore some of her close, but did he act in a particularly different way. When you left the house did he ever try to be a female or how did that manifest itself, what it look like when I yell Mike along which were there like alternate airport, but because of the time I got it told me the plotting definitely without memory that I was 28 when he had left my mom at that time the identity is under and how he lived transcend her life a 13 year and Carol. He had parked the way where he actually going in any way or trying to make a guilty own free will not bring me the fulfillment that I was changing.

That's hard, so hard and I'm sure that he suffered a given his background of sexual abuse that's just your heart goes out but in your position as his daughter how confusing that was for you.

What sort of effect do you think that whole experience had on you as a little girl I had another neighbor or girlfriend father or how I definitely action with my father all had trouble talking adult talking and not from the time it would not leave antique Truscott I can't trust my own feeling valued either valued at the daughter and so there is a teenager my lunch money, get drunk something to help attain my course. What about your mom. How did your mom handle all those things and how did she handle your dad situation when it came to you which you help. Did she talk to you about it or how what was that dynamic.

Like my mom when she did not know until I was 28 years old.

What he had told my mom struggled my green beer might bring a lot mom now told me that you now just going to cost her more pain and what he revealed to me, so it was an announcement that he was in her life. Kyle and when he had finally left behind. While really Sharon out with children who die, I dare lead such a hope that I believe in your heart that she would get help that he would take in the marriage that Mary call you now that their relationship they would grow old together and only their piece occurred that night and every five on she thought a lot of Shane a lot of them there called family came out and difficulty that worked for her to share with her father mean that had to be so hard for her and for you even though you are grown at the time your parents broke up. It's never easy, and especially senior parents breakup. For that reason and I you one of the things that you address in your book and you and you really get into this.

I want to talk to you about it Denise, when we come back is how to find God's peace in the transgender storm to come back talking about the niche textbook. It is well with my soul stay with us you listening to jam effort today Christians losing their businesses for not making wedding cakes for homosexuals parents losing custody for not affirming their child's gender identity being tax censoring Christian books, videos and social media posts. This is a dystopian nightmare. It's America in 2020 people do to respond to the sexual radicals is rising social and political power is threatening our religious freedom and our free speech. It's time for Christians to get informed about the looming threats that were facing. Learn how to respond as both salt and light. That's why I like to personally invite you to join me at our second annual God's voice conference. A biblical response to LGBT Q plus tyranny coming to Oklahoma City on April 17 and 18th. You'll hear from an unprecedented lineup of some of the leading Christian thinkers, pastors, profamily activist and medical and therapeutic experts were fighting on the front lines of this battle and standing firmly on God's word in the face of growing LGBT Q plus opposition to Christianity.

Let me tell you, there's nothing else like God's voice conference to get his right to stand in this evil day, so I hope to see you at the God's voice conference and outreach of first own ministries April 17 and 18th in Oklahoma City and take advantage of our early bird discount registration only $85 through March 1. So don't delay go to God's voice .us that's God's voice .us and register for a conference unlike any other. Go to God's voice .us and register now. Now is God's voice story company comes from the real-life story of shortcomings in your journey. Can I still believe reminds us that amidst like storms can be found in Christ you chose to walk into the fire is what love is still Robert you where mankind can't effort today. It's great to have you with us. Denise tickets with us.

She has a wonderful ministry. It is called help for families. The number four it's a nonprofit Christian ministry that helps people who are struggling with gender confusion or families, and people who are in communities affected by transgender is a man gender dysphoria is a very difficult topic. Denise lived this situation with her own father and she's out with a new book called is well with my soul. Every Christian knows that him Denise. It is well with my soul.

It was written under very trying circumstances by the hymn writer, why go with that thoughts when you're discussing the issue transgender is him in the hope that the Lord can bring out different opportunity for the Lord hard right now it well. Lord, writing more about all the hymn writer Horatio and what they had endured one. I want to be able to say whole heartedly. Lord I didn't like what happened but no doubt you have made me whole and really okay in my soul I can say today that through the grieving through all of the different rail that the godly heart.

I difficulty really 100% think they had gone well with my soul like a lot, but I think it really okay. Encourage difficult know you may not be able to call the next morning with help he will get you through that P we can have peace and joy well and when you're talking with people who do have this gender dysphoria. Is there any progress that can be made by speaking with them. In other words, people talk about this is been a mental condition can it be talked through canopy Prater.

How do you minister to people who have gender dysphoria for our situation. What we need, where there are with out apologizing for the Scriptures as we start to show the power of Christ and unforgiveness in their own heart because of how they aren't up and down the arm, especially as a child untangle their car and to be able to come to that, that plaintiff an offense that family member that I am talking about pain, it is well know who they are in in God and the identity that God overnight or I should say with a miracle taking year for this type of identity. And so it's going to take time and dedication that person to be able to address what they've been through life.

Well, when you're talking about people who have gender dysphoria. Sometimes having unforgiveness in their own hearts because of their own pain to somebody who's never experienced this condition either personally or in their own families. It can sound like how do you go from being in pain to wanting to dress like a woman is a man what what is the connection point between pain and trend transgender is him now and I would rate and I realized that I just wanted what she heart the rate that she was trying to deal with embarrassment. I wanted and so what were working on with work: first about the rate that happened and why was it so important for her to gain the partition to understand each person their circumstance where that what would cause somebody to want to flee.

Really their true identity and a height get into something to say.

Denise is the way that gender identity disorder ravages souls because that something that you address in the box it will hurt the life away from the God had fully many times the for the current yield God about life.

Shelley Wright has taken from now. For families that's a trickier question.

It would seem, in some ways because they're dealing with somebody else's.

And I think you talk about that that sometimes the trials you go through are because of somebody else's sin where you begin to minister with families who say like you did my dad thinks he's a one and what where do I even begin with this and he doesn't want to get help. He wants to leave my mother. He wants to live life as a woman and maybe even have surgery. What in the world do I do Denise that's a tough situation to minister to somebody about. That's where where you even begin to hurt) either while they are creating a locker that shock that they're going to be able to comfort through the word of God to be able to minister to where they are at that time and walk with through the fact that they just found out if the person is perjury and live under that identity.

There are no many locks that they are going to be trying to climb up over and under get on top again the emotions that they go through.

I think the worst part of it all is thinking if the grieving process because it is something like natural And about grieving the death of somebody that will now but there is no closure because that person is still living right now for those Christian families who say my transgender relative is not a Christian, how do I interact with my father. Do I call him mom. I mean, what about how you navigate those issues.

If you have a parent who says I want to be called by a new name, and in those kinds of things. What you advised people to do a lot right.

I never call my dad back he see her at what I can honestly tell you it was all angry hard it was hard but just wanted her know to be reminded of who he was obviously in all circumstances that have a talk with the loved one and let them know you know if there at that let you know that the economy about where your personal conviction by an and that you know that where and from time to learn to be okay with you. Talk in the book to about having a long, long term perspective and extra long and there what you talking about Denise when it comes to having a long, long term perspective, long term, we can usually say when a long, long term I'm looking at perspective of that style and of our life of our own personal journey that we have to go through our relationship to end with in living with the kingdom you know you know that our holiness that were responsible for it.

Our heart that worry football for and so to be able to lay down at night and you know that you have done it well with the boundaries that maybe we have to put in place or how we had had somebody and truth even though it really hurt are made right okay you know journey but God is with me. Yes, well, all the journeys of life. It comes down to that, ultimately, that the Lord is with below I am with you always, and that's what we all hold onto his Christians and that at some point, we are no longer going to be suffering the way we suffer here on earth but I think it's such a good perspective. Denise, one of the things that I really appreciate you saying is the fact that you're not going to help people lie and that we need to face up to who we are as human beings created in the image of God and that can be a long process but I think it's such a wonderful thing that you are doing what you're doing for these families.

I think increasingly you're going to be facing having more people come forward with this kind of gender dysphoria because for some reason did. Now this just seems to be growing in our culture right now.

Can you let people know Denise very quickly how they can get in touch if they need help in their own families help number and remember you culture is our heart. They, yes, it is also the book is well with my soul.

Denise check with us help for check out these thank you for being here. Always great to talk to you. Thank you, thank you God bless and we'll see next time you're in today. Thanks a lot pertaining to Sgt. today was brought companies realize true story of her top signature. I still believe parental guidance suggested March 13 commission is available. I still

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