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Janet - Mefferd - Today - Christoper Doyle (Therapy Bans) Bill Roach (Apologetics)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd
The Truth Network Radio
March 4, 2020 5:56 pm

Janet - Mefferd - Today - Christoper Doyle (Therapy Bans) Bill Roach (Apologetics)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd

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March 4, 2020 5:56 pm

What should Christians know about the war on therapy to help people with unwanted same-sex attraction, and why should it matter to the church? I'll talk it over with Christopher Doyle, executive director of the Institute for Healthy Families. Plus: How can the church discern biblical truth from the false teaching of Critical Race Theory and cultic error? Bill Roach, president of the International Society of Christian Apologetics, joins me to discuss his group's upcoming Engage 2020 conference. That's next time on Thursday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by kingdom story companies.

I still believe based on the real-life true story of chart topping singer Jeremy Camp. I still believe rated PG parental guidance suggested in theaters March 13.

More information is you generate reference to our confidence is in Christ alone, before God says that soil is all God's voice conference.

Now, you might remember that our first God's voice conference last year was focused on a biblical response to LGBT Q plus Christianity and this was a rallying cry against the encroachment of gay activism into conservative evangelical churches through the heretical re-voice conference this year, though, were offering what we regard as an equally important subject for the church to address as we present a biblical response to LGBT Q plus tyranny. I think it goes without saying. At this point that the church is under increasing pressure by sexual radicals to not only accept homosexuality and transgender is him but to be forced to celebrate it in everything from weddings to speech to adoption and foster care, but one of the most egregious areas of tyranny, has proven to be in the fight to ban therapy for people with unwanted same-sex attraction and that is a subject that will be a ably addressed at God's voice by my next guest, Christopher Doyle.

He is a licensed psychotherapist and leader in the therapy equality movement with the national task force for therapy quality is the author of the war on psychotherapy and he will be presenting an address at our conference call the war on therapy. When sexual politics, gender ideology and mental health collide. In addition, he'll be offering a breakout session called healing the family help for parents with LGBT Q plus identified children and by the way, you can go now to God's voice .us to register get your early bird discount is only available through March 16.

So go to God's voice .us and it's wonderful to welcome you back to the show Christopher so excited to have you here about great beer. Well thank you, you've got a lot on your plate at our upcoming conference were delighted that you're going to be presenting this, but bring us up to speed. If you would on the war on therapy. What is the latest we know a lot of states have banned therapy talk therapy for people with unwanted same-sex attraction, but where do things stand right now. Well, it seems like every day there is a new ordinance or law being fight LGBT art to take away the right of those who do not identify as LGBT and seek a different course.

You know, with my story for 15 years. I experienced the struggle. Same-sex attraction and drug God did a miraculous healing in my life.

Today I married to my wonderful wife Sherry five beautiful kids for the last 10 years I have been walking along with individuals who experience conflicts for sexual and gender identity, and the majority for me personally and professionally, and I felt hundreds of people and their families be able to make decisions better and longer value. And that's why one to the work. I wanted to help people resolve this conflict, especially Christians who thought that there was no hope or interest for that and as you mentioned about the bands that are affecting really localities over the United States. Just yesterday actually the governor of Virginia signed into law the cortical conversion therapy band thinking you could 20th state to ban these efforts for minor Virginia joins Maryland and Washington DC so all around me, and both jurisdictions allowed licensed professional counselor. It is now illegal to help a minor who wants to come out of homosexuality or gender identity conflicts and I'm still in the process of file fighting a federal lawsuit in the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals specs can be heard.

Hopefully the next couple months to try to overturn the expanded Maryland did eventually.

If that happens to the Virginia law wall should be overturned because the same Circuit Court.

It's incredible talk a little bit if you would about this term conversion therapy.

They love to mischaracterize what people like you do another counselors around the country who are simply trying to help your your clients meet their own goals.

Can you talk a little bit about how they use the power of language and twisted words to advance their agenda absolutely strategic objective of the LGBT political activist to confuse terminology in order to paint those who offer an ethical service to those who are struggling as something that not only is what they say ineffective but in fact, torture and harmful and I really described in detail in my book the warrants therapy all the different strategies they use to do this. One of the main charge they use is been inventing this term conversion therapy, which is an umbrella term they used describe any efforts. Whether it is as simple as a self-help book or conference of the church such as God's voice or a religious counselor is not licensed or licensed professional counselor or medical doctor who may be trying to consult with someone who struggling with these issues may be a person of anxiety and is seeking medication so all of these categories are low into one single category of conversion therapy and then they use these different stories interchangeably that will, in order to describe her practice but simply doesn't exist. They say any efforts by these professionals or religious leaders to help someone who has unwanted same-sex attractions or gender identity conflicts is conversion. Of course we know that no one in our field. Whether the religious or licensed pressure counts are like me use that term and the work that we do is quite diverse. Some people like myself focus on healing trauma and doing types of psychotherapy. While religious or faith.

Counselors might work on the spiritual aspects of homosexuality and help support client through that sureties. So it's a strategy to use Gina to basically confuse and to JM all these and the one in order to achieve the political efforts. You're right about that, because you hear some of these testimonies that are given. For example, on the state level. I remember talking I think it was Stan Pollock talking about what went on in California or Washington. I can't remember which.

It was an and they would have people come in and and testify. All I was greatly greatly harmed by this therapist. Gino zapped me with electrodes and you know done to me in a dunk tank and all the rest and then you know that they go over to this person is a who did this to you because we certainly don't want anybody to abuse you in this way give us the name of the psychotherapist got to go. There was never any other name that was given is that a pretty common thing that you've discovered that there are just wild stories being told without any verification whatsoever in my book to warrant psychotherapy. I actually document how this happens with with key people that are involved in the movement to ban therapy.

Some of their most major spokesmen, spokespersons have told these outlandish stories of being a lecture shocked and we draft them for documentation and evidence of this because if this is truly happening. I would be the first person to say that person's license needs to be revoked and possibly they might be able to be prosecuted under abuse under laws of abuse, but we of course know that these stories either didn't happen the way that the person best thing that happened or they just simply don't exist at all.

When I covered it in my book I would cover it while testifying in front of state legislatures. The problem that we have is that for most of these politicians out there. The fact simply do not matter anymore.

This is a political agenda is not based on fact and reason is based purely on emotion and political correctness and for anyone to say that it individual minor adult might be helped by some sort of counseling to resolve homosexual transgender fields will that is the greatest of all evils, it must be torture. It must be out of the goal. How dear you think that and you know what there's thousands if not more people like me out there that are greatly benefited from professional help and are helping others in turn in our voices deserve to be hurt while I agree with you daring and is the executive director of the Institute for healthy families.

How many people would you estimate have benefited from being able to have this kind of talk therapy for my practice. Hundreds of families and hundreds of individuals I've been practicing for 10 years, 65%, 65 to 70% of my 40+ weekly clients have been therapy with orc for these issues.

I've worked with hundreds of families affected just this week we launched a new website for my family therapy model called healing the family if you can go you can actually say that healing-the workings. These elements are surely real video client with their family element on that website of family therapy and Chris let's pause a moment. We got around to a break will come right back with Christopher Doyle you listening to Janet this is Janet effort for pre-born nearly one in four pregnancies in America will end in abortion. The ministry of pre-born provides free ultrasounds for abortion minded women nationwide. When a mother sees her baby on an ultrasound and here's the baby's heartbeat. She's 80% more likely to choose life. Here's a story of a mom who went to one of pre-born sinners and met the baby she had planned to abort and they introduced me to Moscow for the first time I was able to see the life growing inside of here in a heartbeat, and client to be your gift of $140 will cover the cost of five ultrasounds. All donations are tax-deductible.

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I think he said Christopher 20 states now have passed these therapy bands raising this question why bands and not regulation. If there really isn't.

And we know the lies that go on, but if there really is some sort of trend of therapists harming clients and that can be actually documented, then why don't the states take the less invasive approach of regulating the bad bad people, and allowing autonomy for the good therapists, whom a lot of people want to go to to help resolve their same-sex attraction. Well, something of actually regulation contract Virginia which is a state licensing regulation earlier this was actually 2019.

But you're correct.

There are very far less obsolete pass regulations been that that actually passed legislation and my opinion is that it is actually easier in this climate the past political legislation because this is more political issue when you actually look at the facts you look at the document to give the lack of documented harm for those who are going through any sugar therapy to resolve sensor structures and gender identity issues. There is not. There's not. And so when we when we actually this back we can make a pretty good case that therapy should be ethical and legal and that we should keep ethical and legal therapy alive and sure we can regulate unethical therapy that harmful but you don't want to do that they would rather solve this with cheap political solutions that really don't help anybody because what happened is that all the capital law.

If Barry is actually very easy because it's a political solution to change the type of therapy that you do or change of what you call it, and so forth to get around to political law. The problem with that. It paints a picture of the minds of people with clients that are trying to get help that they can't get help because this is illegal was not legal because in my therapy honestly I'm not changing anything. I don't change sexuality. Sexuality change is the byproduct of doing really good trauma therapy. But what's really happening here is that the client who is struggling doesn't understand that he or she can get therapy because they believe that this is been illegal or banned, and so they are be discouraged and there simply more more simply going adopting a gay identity or is that of the because they feel like there's no hope for them and they can't get any help, rights, and yet there are so many people like you who have said I benefited from this therapy frustrates me on some level. Christopher is the fact that there are a lot of Christians who will reject psychotherapy just for you know theological reasons and I've been trying to say for a number of years. Listen even if you reject psychotherapy, which obviously you can make a case in some some regard to why a Christian might have a little bit of problem with this or that. Fine. But on the other hand, there's autonomy, right were Americans. We have freedom in the United States of America to pursue you know happiness and this is what really troubles me is that this is affecting autonomy. Is this not something that also will carry over to biblical counseling.

Once they bands therapy involving psychotherapy are Christians and churches next with biblical counseling.

You're absolutely correct and that is a great issue that I bring up in audiences where perhaps psychotherapy is not accepted. I might offer Christian integrated counseling we call it psychotherapy, but Christian Christian values. I hide Glenn's site psychology into the therapy of accounting by Duke and this is a mainstream practice for most Christian counselors out there, but just answer your question, yes. So the problem with all perhaps Christians are churches of opposing therapy is that the way that these laws are written, is not actually banning the specific type of therapy. It's banning the goal of the Claudia. Even if a client goes into a church or faith-based counseling center and the counselor's license for the offer. Biblical or Christian counseling, not so-called conversion therapy where you want to call it that, is feel you need legal whether or not the client is getting religious counseling or secular counseling and that's what's very unwise for organizations like the Southern Baptist convention to come out and you know oppose reparative therapy because it really there cutting off their nose to spite your face. I do that right right well that's very interesting that kinda changes the whole landscape doesn't when you explain that to people that in fact the goal of the client is what is being outlawed, not the specific type of therapy that that's huge if you look at all the laws that that's what's being outlawed is not the type of therapeutic goal client. No client can have a goal that's under 18 to change or diminish their unwanted same-sex attractions or gender identity confusion. It never said you can't do this therapy are that therapy is the goal, and of course rights when people listen. I don't change sexuality. Sexuality might change as a byproduct of the clients work but the client doesn't understand that of the general public. They think, oh my gosh, I can go get help because this is a legal would be yet. This is a PR battle that will fighting right against the LGBT activist who would you know basically every every major media outlet of the popular pocket it on and are now able to publish all bids of the New York Times at a whim. You know we can't get we can get arbitral publish its document happen so sorry try to get that message out, but it's very difficult. Well that's why were here for love getting your message on Christopher your you got a wonderful message. And as I been my mark out. Now you need to be on box. Well I tell you what I do nothing to have me either, so who knows what's what's going on these days, but I'm so glad you know Christopher is good to be speaking on this subject. The war on therapy at God's voice conference coming up April 17 and 18th.

You need to register take advantage of our early bird rates by going to God's as you have to be there now Christopher you will also be doing a breakout session for us on healing the family and you mentioned you have a website by that name as well.

Healing the family help for parents with LGBT Q plus identified children can't talk a little bit about that because there are so many families even Christian families who are really brokenhearted because they may have a son or a daughter come home and say I'm gay.

I feel like I'm in the wrong body and I'm transgender and you should support my transition. What are some of the important things that families need to know when they're dealing with that kind of a circumstance for mentioning that and you people can do what you website it and you know what I talk about my family therapy model called healing the family that I work with a substantial amount of families and parents and miters were struggling with these issues and the individuals that I work with ever miters are really all across the LGBT Q structure. I don't just work with those who have a goal to change their sexuality or so forth.

I work with a lot of friends. Gay and lesbian identified miters that I work with their families. I try to help them understand that trying to change their child is not an effective goal for therapy. What I explained is that so often, and pretty much every case but I have there or dysfunctional and emotionally unhealthy family dynamics occurring in the whole.

And so what I what I use as family systems therapy and I've adopted a protocol that I developed over many years and I publish this in 2018 Journal article on issues of law or medicine and I describe how I use family systems therapy to help shift the focus from changing the child to healing the family and whenever we feel dysfunctional aspects, dysfunctional emotional, relational aspects of the family relationships, improve emotional health within the client. The child improves.

And yes, that in turn can affect the child sexuality they can affect lots of changes within those relationships. The child has better dysfunctional and possibly causing sexual and gender either the conflict so my my view of this is that it works really do comprehensive treatment we have to treat the whole family because the family is influencing 76 when Gerard and the complex know this isn't something where I think a child we go to the home start like mother sexuality. That's not the point right the sexual conflict or the gender identity conflict is the symptom.

It's not the problem. Problem is, in an unhealthy family dynamics we do in family systems therapy.

We heal relationships with your family dynamics. We work on boundaries. We teach parents how to unconditionally love and also a lot of times will work on unhealthy marriages between mom and dad because that is one of the roots of why some people might struggle with these issues are know what. In my case in many of my clients that is important to have that broader view is it the case that a lot of your clients also struggle with past sexual abuse. How prevalent is that problem prevalent but in my experience that is actually occurring elective left used to be that about 50% of my clients experience sexual abuse. Those numbers are actually declining in my practice because what's happening as I IC primarily client they're coming at this date, they have trauma, but it usually attachment trauma and meaning that they're not successfully attaching to the same-sex parents and peers growing up and whenever big in the water pump you clients?

Gender dysphoric watch is the fastest growing population that I'm seeing in my practice right now I have a lot of young women that their parents are for bringing them into therapy in their yoke 12, 13, 14 years old and these goals are late bloomers they had been having. They're not know at the same level was their peers. You've already developed and they're very wounded. They don't feel like they can measure up. They look at. They will get TV and the Internet. They say this is not me and so they have these attachment problems and they have these will these cultural wounds that better all the way they view themselves and before you know it. Rather than say okay I just need to develop what I need to work through my identity issues there going online and think oh I'm really a transgender to stop going through puberty. Yeah so that I can so that I don't have to face these you know what we would call you to call the awkward here exactly what you interesting.

Christopher is all this stuff is so important. It's why you need to come to God's voice conference and hear more from Christopher Doyle from the Institute for healthy families go to God's voice.US register today.

Christopher, thank you so much. It was wonderful to talk to you again hi God bless you will see you soon will be back this archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by kingdom story companies. I still believe based on the real-life true story of chart topping singer Jeremy Camp. I still believe rated PG parental guidance suggested in theaters March 13. More information is live for today.

Here's your host Joe Mefford Colossians 28 Warren see to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of man according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ while in today's church we are facing all kinds of spiritual and political and social deception. Everything from the social justice movement to universalism to the cults and those are just some of the issues that will be addressed. March 27 and 28th at the 2020gauge conference of the International Society of Christian apologetics. It will take place at New Hope Community Church in Palatine, Illinois. One of the northwest suburbs of Chicago and working to be finding out more about it now from Dr. Bill roach was president of the International Society of Christian apologetics welcome Bill.

It's great to have you with us.

Thank you. It's good to be on your show.

Really looking forward were conference and were thankful to be on here and to engage the topic well terrific.

I know this conference is about comparing and contrasting sound biblical teaching with some of the false teaching that's invading the church and the culture tell me what you consider some tip to be some of the most concerning false teaching that the church is facing right now that you will be addressing at the conference conference.

We are going to address two primary people featuring first one is this whole woke social justice, vertical theory, movement, and the second thing is the anagram which is really a New Age approach that people are using to connect with God in some way shape or form.

So they think and we see both of them as eroding both evangelical identity and consistency were trying to do is defend the historic gospel against the onslaught that are coming both from outside the church and inside the church. While these are really important subjects. I want to go to number two first because I want to delve into number one a little bit more detail. But when you any Graham one of the things I've noticed sometime sure you've noticed this as well.

Bill, for example, when you go on twitter.

I have seen more and more professing Christians putting in any grammar reference on their twitter bio and I'm thinking what is going on here. Can you explain to people a little bit about what this even is because probably a lot of listeners have never even heard of it. Graham is really a means by which people can think chart their identity and their different linking was towards God. You know a lot of churches are going using the approach a lot of Christian schools are using this approach in a kind of marketing it as the personality test that you can take and while it is a type of personality test goes much beyond just the personality test.

It's a New Age means of understanding who you are, how you connect with God.

How one can relate with God, and know God in that sense it's denying the fundamental teaching of Scripture that we have one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, we can have these other avenues which are contrary to the biblical teaching, and contrary to the Christian worldview.

How did this become widespread and why do you think it's so popular in churches. This seems to be pretty much a no-brainer as to something has New Age roots we should stay away from it. We should be only getting what we believe from the word of God. But what what how popular is this in the church.

While it is popular all over the place. You know there's a lot of churches that get on the bandwagon of trying to be seeker sensitive and trying to relate with the culture and it's been said, tell me what the world is saying today and I'll tell you what the church will be saying seven years from now. That's exactly what's going on here is churches are trying to amp up there Sunday school classes, not by the Bible in the Bible alone, but by the Bible. Plus the anagram or some other means, in each way is really just a compromise of the full sufficiency of Scripture as our foundation for faith and practice will that's a really important point because when we talk about the inerrancy of Scripture, that's one important truth, but the sufficiency of Scripture. It seems to me Bill is becoming a bigger and bigger issue. All of the time because it's easy to say I have a doctrinal statement by which I am affirming the inerrancy of Scripture, but if you're not living as if every word out of the mouth of God are those of the words that were living by. That's when you can fall into a trap where you were by your. Coming in and accepting all of these worldly philosophies would that be a fair thing to say that the sufficiency of Scripture is under increasing attack. Scripture is been under attack, both in and outside of the evangelical movement for years now. People are always trying to find the Bible plus something else but one is coming to these issues.

In many ways they're trying to say this idea that we don't have all the divine words necessary for faith and practice. So they're looking to outside human words to sort of fill in the holes in which God is apparently not revealed himself adequately or clearly that's what were facing both with the social justice movement and its ideology to the spring and will critical theory and with any Graham the Bible plus something else again were the first one is the faith that you know coming out of the Reformation. We find this taking place where yes we have the Bible, yes, we have what the apostles have given us, but those words are not all the divine words that we need for faith and practice what we need to add to it. Well, Roman Catholicism said you need tradition. Tradition is going to fill in the gaps of the doctrinal lapses that we we have come to Rome will will answer your problem for you on the flip side of you know some people divide deny that even divine words had any ability to give adequate faith and practice in theological liberalism brought about in that know what what reason and reason alone we got by which we understand man's understanding this world and our place in this world and how we ought to know God and our liberal doctrines and so forth of the sufficiency of the tax from all angles. That's really important one is the things I want to the addresses at your conference. You'll be delivering this on the subject of critical epistemology the trauma and danger can you tell us a little bit about what you'll be tackling and that address the issue that I'm going to tackle not address this idea of critical custom knowledge and you know some people try to take this whole critical race theory may start defining the critical and say that it's just Marxism and the right. It is this idea of sorting out people, according to oppressors and the oppressed. But I want to go back even farther, and I really want to divide the idea up to pre-Kantian and post-Kantian understandings of reality and you don't. Prior to con, they would say things like this that you have objects in reality and the mind conforms on to reality. It's like science were discovering that which is true but after caught the mind is determining reality and that's what the critical turn is this idea of how do we sort out reality, but ultimately we don't know reality in and of itself, but only as it appears on for me and that's the whole key is the me factor can changes that according to Ms. modern man working we look at critical theory that me according to my race, my gender, my oppression, my inner sexuality points and so forth.

So that's what critical theory, getting up. How do I determine that which is in the world. According to my vantage point right when you talk about Tonto. What was it about conscious thinking that made that distinction between pre-con and post-con on the issue of how the mind conforms to reality or how the mind determines reality. What did he add to the philosophical school of thought that that created that distinction, whole philosophy was known of the big Copernican revolution and we know what Copernicus was all about the idea that the sun revolved around the earth through the earth revolved around the sun and that and what they're saying and can't philosophy is you idea you objects conforming to the mind orders the mind conforming to objects, flip that traditional philosophy is always said that we can have an objectivity that we can know reality that reality is something that can be absolute and we can communicate it, but what caught, tried to do if you tried to say no reality in and of itself can't be known, were left with this golf between us and reality in many ways were trying to determine reality from our vantage point, but again it's mere opinion in its subjectivity through and through so it's really a battle of objectivity versus subjectivity. Can we know reality can we not know reality right well I harkens back to the days the judges doesn't that's where the people were doing what was right in their own eyes and what that creates is chaos and CTA genders and all the rest of the stuff that's being lobbed at us on a daily basis in American culture today and I do want to get into more of what you'll be talking about your upcoming conference spell which is the subject of the woke and all of this identity politics movement. That is all around us and affecting the church work for you to come back in just a few minutes with Dr. Bill roach, president of the international Society of Christian apologetics are listening to Janet Mefford today Christians losing their businesses for not making wedding cakes for homosexuals parents losing custody for not affirming their child's gender identity being tax censoring Christian books, videos and social media posts.

This is a dystopian nightmare. It's America in 2020, but what will God's people do to respond to the sexual radicals whose rising social and political power is threatening our religious freedom and our free speech.

It's time for Christians to get informed about the looming threats that were facing and learn how to respond as both salt and light.

That's why I like to personally invite you to join me at our second annual God's voice conference, a biblical response to LGBT Q plus tyranny coming to Oklahoma City on April 17 and 18th. You'll hear from an unprecedented lineup of some of the leading Christian thinkers, pastors, profamily activist and medical and therapeutic experts who are fighting on the front lines of this battle and standing firmly on God's word in the face of growing LGBT Q plus opposition to Christianity. Let me tell you, there's nothing else like God's voice conference to get Christians ready to stand in this evil day, so I hope to see you at the God's voice conference and outreach of first on ministries April 17 and 18th in Oklahoma City and take advantage of our early bird discount registration only $85 through March 16. So don't delay go to God's voice .us that's God's voice .us and register for a conference unlike any other. Go to God's voice .us and register now what the church needs now is God's voice, story company comes from the real-life story of chart topping singer Jeremy, can I still believe reminds us that amidst like storms. True hope can be found in Christ. He chose to walk into the fire with her is what love is still Robert that I still believe Mefford today and here's your host Joe Mefford well this is very encouraging to hear about the upcoming conference in Palatine, Illinois. The 2020 engage conference. It's an apologetics conference addressing issues that are facing the church in our world from the international Society of Christian apologetics. March 27 and 28th Bill roach Dr. Bill roach who is the president of the international Society of Christian apologetics is with us and can you give people a website bill where they can get a little bit more information about the upcoming conference is interested in coming to our conference, they can go to again that I see a There you can find out more about our plenary speakers in all of the breakout sessions that are coming. In addition, if you go to that website and you type in Medford when you're getting ready to sign up for the conference were giving a special 20% discount. All of your listeners to your program under Saul. That's terrific so people can go to is Scott ISC a for more information.

We were talking earlier Bill about the emphasis that you'll be placing on these me know that you're conference, one of which was the Enea Graham as we discussed, and also this woke movement. This is everywhere.

I know one of your speakers will be a name well known to the audience that were speaking to Dr. Tom Haskell who has done such great work with the founders ministry in the Southern Baptist convention and he has been a real warrior when it comes to fighting this resolution nine that was passed at the Southern Baptist convention, people will know this was the resolution that said that critical race theory can be used as an analytical tool in making certain determinations and and Bible believing Christians within the SBC has a way to hang on his hat can't hang on a second.

We shouldn't be using critical race theory is an analytical tool in the church to counter that. How would you respond to that.

Just wish somebody would come to you and say why can't we use critical race theory is some kind of analytical tool in the church. While the reality is that your people are portraying.

This is just a set of neutral pools that are out there sort of like this you know way of epistemic sort of screwdriver it's been described as a just the tool that sitting over there, excluding its neutrality to people why you just pick it up and use it but the problem is is that it's not a neutral tool ideas.

Not only have consequences as Weaver taught us. They have origins to and the origins of this worldview are again doorpost content. You can't no objective reality and are rooted in cultural Marxism, in which it starts to divide all of reality up according to the oppressed and the oppressor and when I read my Bible. I don't to the Bible, understanding, and determining humanity in that way. It really determines is not as this idea of my oppressed or am I the oppressor, but am I in Adam or am I in Christ, am I a fallen person lacks salvation or my person that already is in Christ, and has received salvation was fundamentally trying to do is shift the locus of the of humanity's real problem away from sin and salvation to oppression and how are you fitting in your whole intersection hourly grid in society. So I think you're right and I love what you just said. I think that's terrific. If I am IN Adam or am I in Christ, am I still in my fallen, sinful nature unforgiven indent in my sins and transgressions or have I been born again into a living faith and the Lord Jesus Christ. I mean, that is the real distinction and and one of the things that it seems becomes problematic when people begin to pick up this critical race theory are this woke kind of philosophy to try to apply to life. Is there never seems to be any forgiveness. In other words, with some of these people who are pushing critical race theory, it becomes your white there's nothing you can do about your permanent races. You can never repent enough you can never do enough to atone for your sins of the sins of your ancestors that is diametrically opposed to the word of God.

What is salvation if not forgiveness of sin and redemption, exactly, you know there was a time when evangelical thought that purgatory was about the worst thing that could be caught out on the streets and we realize that you know when the coin in the copper rings the soul from the spring yes and we think that if somebody can't work that off of somebody can't do enough penance for their sins, will we haven't looked at critical. Woke. Not because you can never get out of their purgatory, never, never find the forgiveness of their sin and were left.

You know finding this mediator of their social role for a priest that we have out there. The woke social justice warriors give us knowledge tell us when we been involved. It's really a woeful thing that the churches bought into. I agree with you and especially because Christianity is so superior to any sort of secondary philosophy.

That's popularized in the current culture it's it's ridiculous. You know, when you look at this a fact that the woke movement is having on evangelicalism Bill, what would you say are your greatest concerns just on how it is impacting Christians across the country and dividing churches and dividing denominations really divide carding or that starting to called me the greatest concern and it doing exactly what it set out to do critical theory is not here to unify people but to divide people and you look at this week had people go from a very practical standpoint from having unified seminaries, unified denominations, unified churches, unified missions organization and now all that's been put on top of its head right now right and we see that most clearly in the Southern Baptist convention where people are divided on this issue. There are people who are no longer speaking with one another because vicious you and is starting to really split churches, so I think it's really accomplishing what it set out for denying the unity of the body of Christ. That's one of my biggest concerns well in his level. It is a huge concern and I always say this on my cell. You might not be a Southern Baptist. But what is happening in the Southern Baptist convention is a harbinger of what might be happening in your denomination. Next, because that's the biggest evangelical denomination in the country so we best be informed about this built a little bit if you would about some of your speakers. I mentioned Dr. Tomas go you have some other great speakers as well but but what can people expect when they come to the conference what people can expect from the conference is for us to address this topic at all the different level one would like to see addressed.

You know I'm going to address it from a topical perspective about my background and Tomas Gould going to look at it from more of a theological perspective. Trying to understand how can we apply the biblically theologically at pastors and leaders within our churches in the when you look at this. We also have two other people that are pastors and local churches and were to look at this idea of how can a pastor in his church and some of them are even black pastors address this topic that is so divisive and really just mirroring the world right now so that we can rightly stand where the Bible calls for us to stand now. The one thing that's different.

We also have Marcia Montenegro who is really just an expert on sort of the New Age movement address Richard war and the hole in your Graham movement, though we have four people dealing with critical theory and one dealing with the inner grandpa were really touching on these two hot button topics of our culture from all levels, from a pastoral perspective, theological and philosophical. That's wonderful and you're right Marcia's just terrific. On the whole issue of the New Age will do a great job as well wait you a lot of breakout sessions and I know something else will be discussing I are also the cults, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism. It's interesting because it doesn't seem. The cults are discussed quite as much today as they may have been 1015 years ago, but this is this is also continuing to be important is it to make the distinction between historic biblical Christianity and an twisted versions of Christianity exactly ironic because there's really a strong parallel between how the cold operate and how they define doctrine and exactly what going on with the woke movement yes is one of the cult somebody but denies at least one essential of the Christian faith and how they operate their authoritarian yes we have the knowledge you gotta come to we have the special insight were to tell you how reality operates and how to interpret your Bible that really what's going on with a lot of this woke movement and authority in their the one to tell us exactly how to interpret the Bible, makeup, biblical doctrine and apply it to the local church to the go hand in glove. I think that is a great comparison and immediately what came to my mind was the Mormon who says you can't talk me out of just dismiss revelation because I have a burning in my bosom that this is true and it's kinda like the woke saying you haven't lived. My experience so you can't deny my reality. I mean, it almost takes it out of the realm of rational, reasonable conversation, or the ability to persuade anybody out of their position because it's all based on experiential evidence, as it were, or lack thereof, but all of this is such an important stuff and I want to reference you one more time, refer you to the eye SCA will do this I SCA this is the international Society of Christian apologetics website. I asked CA you can get more information about the upcoming conference March 27 and 28th in Palatine, Illinois. While Dr. Bill roach.

It was a delight to have you here. God bless you. Keep up the good work and thank you so much for being with us. Thank you.

We really appreciate it all right my honor to have you here, Bill. God bless and thanks again for being here today really appreciate you.

Thank you Sue for being with us and Janet Mefford today. Always a pleasure seeing this are Janet Mefford today was brought to my kingdom story companies. I still believe based on the real-life true story of chart topping singer Jeremy Camp. I still believe parental guidance suggested in theaters March 13 for information is available.

I still believe

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