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Janet - Mefferd - Today - Greg Cochran (Christians & Culture) Scott Phelps (Purity)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd
The Truth Network Radio
August 31, 2020 5:00 am

Janet - Mefferd - Today - Greg Cochran (Christians & Culture) Scott Phelps (Purity)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd

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August 31, 2020 5:00 am

The Bible tells us Christians are a peculiar people -- in the world but not of it, and with a Master whose cross offends. What do we need to understand about the nature of the enmity between the world and the Christian? Dr. Gregory Cochran joins me to talk about it as we discuss his book, "Christians in the Crosshairs: Persecution in the Bible and Around the World Today." Plus: With all of the media emphasis on safe sex, the message of sexual purity until marriage is what teens really need to hear. Scott Phelps, executive director of the Abstinence and Marriage Education Partnership, offers his thoughts on it. That's on Monday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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We have Christians being oppressed in places like North Korea. Why does it happen while the Bible speaks quite clearly on the subject of persecution, and so were to talk about it today with Dr. Gregory Cochran. He serves as associate professor of theology in the school of Christian ministries at California Baptist University and is the director of the applied theology program and he is out with a book great book Christians in the crosshairs persecution in the Bible and around the world today and Greg so wonderful to have you here. Thank you for being with us. Thank you so much for having waited while I appreciated this is a very hard subject I know a lot of people don't want to talk about persecution because it's dressing brings you down and so forth.

A lot of people also confused about the definition of it because we'll talk about persecution of Christians here who are losing bakeries over the gay issue in the United States and there was talk about persecution of Islamic states, the Christians, who are the crosshairs there.

How would you take the word persecution and explain it to people what it really is yeah will curse on your first point, you're right that people don't want to hear about this a lot of times because leaving it to be a downer right of the uterus can be depressing and wants to read a book under pressure, but for my own experience in working with the persecuted church and thinking through this biblically. I usually come away refreshed and encouraged and more. As Peter says you no more sober minded it, but there's always a victory at the end of it right because of the resurrection of Christ, but to your main point on the definition of persecution. Yeah we we need to get this clear because they're all kinds of actions against Christians are we suffering because we are part of a political movement or we suffering because were you know where doing something offensive and people responded often with hostility towards offensive people. We have to get that clear because in the Scriptures, Jesus, for example, in Matthew 510 to 12 talks about persecution in such a way that it could include something as slight as just slander or it could include people saying things falsely against you, but it could include the more fantastic varieties of suffering to going to prison being and possibly losing your business. So there's a wide range of different forms that persecution can take but basically persecution only happens in two kinds. There's the kind of persecution where an individual responds with hostility towards another Christian or Christian group or there's the kind of persecution that is institutional and that kind of persecution would be where play an entire university system or a school system or accounting government or even in on some context. A family unit where the social structure depends on the family and entire family unit can bring persecution against an individual Christian or group of Christians. So persecution itself either happens because one individual lashes out, or because an institution lashes out against a Christian. That's interesting. I think that's true and it's important to differentiate their because you can have one particular case where you're being persecuted or you know you see examples like that in the Bible about Paul being persecuted shipwrecked and stoned and so forth.

Or you can have groups so this is what we see, for example, in the Middle East Christians right now are persecuted because there Christians in their being displaced in huge numbers and I'm sure it's what you think of the state of persecution right now because all these reports that have come out. For example, have said no genocide against Christians and persecution against Christians is extremely high right now you make of that. And where do you see the worst persecution taking place. Well probably hold that one because you can mean worse by the amount or the wrong numbers or the severity that the kind of cruelty that goes on certainly at the top of the list of the worst persecution would be somewhere like North Korea, where but but that's true against Chris sheet against Christians and Christianity in North Korea. But it's also true against many of the citizens there but Christians in particular have been targeted and some terrible atrocities have occurred against the might I speak of one and I don't give the graphic details in the book, but the US Council international religious freedom has done a full report on the severity of the suffering out in North Korea. So that's one place I think Saudi Arabia might be there but we don't get a lot of report on Saudi Arabia but certainly if you're Christian Saudi Arabia. You're not not a good place so there severe restrictions.

There were all numbers Iraq you mentioned in the Middle East earlier this century 35% of the citizens of Iraq were Christians. Now that number is 1.5% crazy so I do think words like genocide are are appropriate settings.

Yeah they really are they really are.

So when we look so it martyrdom. Martyrdom is a different matter is in it that persecution is persecution doesn't necessarily mean that you lose your life. Thank you so much yeah well it is exactly right. And one of one of the downstream effects of the book is oh I would like for people to focus attention on persecution, particularly because that that's an ethical issue that that's something that we can can know that Jesus is blessed are you when so there's something about when this happens were supposed to know. Oh wait this is persecution and it's an indication that I'm blessed not not that it's a good thing, but that in fact someone out there has recognize Jesus Christ and me and that that is supposed to be an encouragement to me that I'm with Jesus. And if I were Jesus, I'm in the right here mom on the right path Carlos of how this person is is mistreating me the unethical element comes in. We focus on persecution rather than martyrdom and then we can define martyrdom. Just as being persecuted unto death, or being faithful as a witness through whatever comes even to death that's well said.

And yeah, you reference this were Jesus in the sermon on the mount says Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me and you are okay sent on that particular phrase. What is it about Jesus that makes the world want to persecute those who follow him and are part of his body. Yeah, great, great question.

I kind of think it's the same thing that caused them to string him up on a cross and put nails in them in the first century.

I don't think that the world is any more disposed to following the son of God today than they were in the first century so I really do think it's the in breaking of the kingdom of God and the coming of Christ to know in the book of Matthew you referenced that there in the book of Matthew Jesus has a mean I want to say it's an attitude but it it's an attitude he's like teach them make disciples of all nations teaching them to observe everything I commanded you, well, not everybody wants to be taught how to obey Jesus because there were there pretty comfortable in their own way now. Yes, but at the end of the day and you see this in Matthew 25 at the end of the day everyone will give an account to this particular Jesus every knee will bow and every tongue will confess and so our job is to help people understand that now in the most winsome, compelling, persuasive, loving way possible. But even that being said, just as with Jesus, who was incarnate, love.

Some people will react and hostility to that message right and I think this is becoming more of a subject it's on our radar is Christians in the West. We have grown up in in wonderful situations. Most of us where we have never really expected or experienced any real persecution that we would call persecution, we might say, you know that the bag boy at the grocery store laughed at me when I try to share the gospel with them that you know that doesn't really compute what is contrary to what somebody's going going through a North Korea but one of the things I want to get NCO that you get into in the book when we come back is the biblical data on the issue of persecution and things that Paul had to say on things that Peter had to say in the witness of the early church's and what the early church went through were to come back with Dr. Gregory Cochran's book is called Christians in the crosshairs. Stay with us you listening to Janet. Janet effort today is proud to partner with pre-born to help save babies lives. My name is Dan Steiner and I'm the president of prewar ultrasound truly is a game changer when mom comes into pregnancy center under pressure to abort her child. Perhaps the day is gone, perhaps her mother is pressuring her most of the time in her heart.

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Thank you for joining us. My guest Dr. Gregory Cochran Christians in the crosshairs persecution in the Bible and around the world today is the name of his great book and were discussing persecution, not just the type that you hear about overseas, but also the type that every believer experiences to some extent as the world identifies we are those who belong to Jesus Christ and I think of this passage. This famous passage, everybody will think of.

I'm sure Greg from John 15 were Jesus as if the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love it sound because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. This is a hard passage. I mean a lot of us.

We want to be liked. We we think of it were just we love our neighbor as ourselves, and were charitable and were kind and good and wise the world like us more. This is the kind of an issue for a lot of Christians to get their minds around, say, why is it what was Jesus really saying there yeah so I think that the lesson is Jesus himself as incarnate, love, and people hated that in the sense of rejecting that and refusing to go along with that, I think that we are identified with Jesus. It's it's a part of our sanctification is were being set apart in Christ. Well were being set apart from the very world that he called us out of and so in some ways it it's just that it's the threat someone for the stability that they're going along just fine and someone swim to bind the other direction said hey follow me. This is actually way of life. It is startling and upsetting will we call people to believe in Jesus were really calling them to turn around and go in a completely different way. We should expect some tension there but then further to your question, I think in that. John 15 passage that is quoted in the book but use the term idle spies. Yes, I think there's an aspect in which people really do want to believe that there's a better way that they really do want to believe that there is eternal life, but were so cynical and where you know what we it's just it's a hard thing to believe because it's gonna cost us everything course, we who are believers in and follow Christ. We know know you actually get everything you don't lose anything but yes but but in the front and on the front end, it does seem like it will cost you everything, namely your sins that you're so attached to. That's exactly what it is and were born loving our sand and it's hard to give it up then and you are right when you become a Christian, you gain so much more than you lost. And this is another reference that use a great passage. One of my very favorites are Mark 835 for whoever wants to save his life will lose its, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will say that the words of Jesus. This is a hard thing to be a Christian is persecution. To some extent something that you ought to expect when you become a Christian.

I sometimes use the phrase with Christians.

This is what you signed up for haven't out a wonderful happy life and everybody would love you because you now belong to Jesus Christ. The exact opposite is actually what you ought to expect yeah no I think you're likely right and in fact Paul, I don't know if you called a promise, but it's a clear declaration in negativity. 312.

Anyone who desires to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted so you can't have the word of God on that but but again that's the thing that upfront would cause people to to to wait will waiver on I'm not. I don't want to go that direction, but but Jesus talks that way to people who are wanting to follow him and the last few deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me can't be my disciple because his way is the opposite way of the rest of the world. He really is calling you to an entirely new life work for new creatures in Christ Jesus will born again Emily follow him.

So he's telling set up for anything. Count the cost upfront. It will cost you in the sense of some public opinion, and I know you know that Janet yeah you know it will cost you some from hit to your reputation and and people will say things and they will do things and in some context. Thank God, not in America yet in some context. It will mean taking your freedom putting you in prison or even taking your life, but for all Christians. There will be some cost to it as slander, name-calling, or going to prison. Yeah that's very right.

Well, when you look at the testimony in the example of the early church.

Not only you know the early church in Scripture.

When we read the book of acts.

For example, but also the early church in the early centuries. This is a church that was greatly persecuted and we have no we know for example that as I mentioned before, what Paul went through. He boasts of his sufferings in second Corinthians chapter 11.

He says five times I received from the Jews the 40 lashes -13 times I was beaten with rods, once I was pelted with stones. Three times I was ship cracked it out on and on and on and yet he boasts of this and he says I must. Most. I will most of the things if I must post I will boast of the things that show my weakness. What was different about the attitude of the apostles at that time who went through physical persecution like that, compared to how we see at Sowa you look upon the book of acts when you are analyzing in terms of persecution yell currently.

I would just say you have to have the perspective that Paul had in all the glory yet to be revealed in Christ far exceeds any amount of suffering that that we can go through here the book of acts really is all about that. Like you said every chapter of the book of `the shipwreck chapter has some confrontation and has some aspect of persecution related to it because that that was very much endemic the you know not only were the early Christians in opposition to Rome, they were for Christ.

But, as such, they necessarily were against the Roman culture around them, but they were also going to get the culture of Judaism and so they were facing. It really from every side. As Christ was separating them from the world it in effect, was causing the light to shine in dark places and so you know you have the persecution of Stephen and that was from people who should've known the gospel that he was preaching that they they had the roots of it but yet lately killed Steven and then you have. You know the later they are confronted with automakers and because people are coming to Christ there abandoning the idols will sell the bottles are going down and being persecuted for that one after the other one context after another where bringing the light of Christ exposes the darkness within the world around them. It's right. And yet they seemed, at least when you read to the book of acts they seem so strong. I mean there was Peter who denied Christ three times and that guy was a warrior for Christ in acts. I mean it's almost like he's not the same guy he was so many junctures when Jesus walked the earth.

He sometimes had periods of cowardice and you just don't see that in the book of acts right yeah so I think the book of act can be summed up as just a record of the Holy Spirit empowering God's people to faithful witness.

You know that everybody sees the spirit in the bookbags, but we we kind of focus attention on the charismatic gifts.

But really, in every situation, all to the book of acts what's happening is God's people are being empowered to remain faithful witnesses through all sorts of suffering so greater is you the one who is in you than the one who's in the world and that on display in the book of acts. That's a great point.

You remind me of something. The story from Corrie 10 boom spoke the hiding place where she was saying what happened. I'm afraid to die. Daddy I hope I'm getting this right with the details but I'm doing this her memory. She said I'm afraid to dad die daddy what I what I do. I'm really scared. He said Cory when we go on the train window, I give you the ticket and she said will you give it to me as I step on the train and she said that's what it's like with God is when you need God's grace. He's gonna give it to you when you need it.

How do you see that is applying to Christians facing persecution because you do see that an accent and even in modern-day stories that people who are persecuted for their faith or saying you can't believe the grace that the Lord Jesus Christ gave me in that moment that I could withstand what I had to withstand their uncountable number of and things that happened night that you can't really expect to happen on the front end note in chapter 7 of acts you got the persecution of Stephen and in chapter 8.

It looks like a really bad thing where the Christians are having to flee for their lives but but then it says they go with the gospel and as they go. The gospel spread and they end up becoming missionaries who would've known that and be going back to Corrie 10 boom it just been another great witness. There is, she was in such terrible I think I'm getting this right you in touch such a terrible shape, they put her in a prison cell. That was flea infested and it was it was that very situation that caused the guards not to go in there so that they could share the gospel freely and openly. No one wanted to be a written such a nasty place and so the gospel spread through that encounter. It is just one story after another. You know stories like this are happening on the border of China with refugees who come down from North Korea and then go back into North Korea. The Lord is empowering his people and his witness is going to continue to the ends of the earth Great Plains will I know we don't have a whole lot of time left Greg that I wanted to ask you what you think God's ultimate purpose is in the persecution of his church. I think that that's is a question a lot of Christians has yeah I think I think it will ultimately glorify him which all things work to together for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose. I think that he will be glorified through this and through the end of it, but there's an undeniable aspect of witness and you wonder how from a handful of what 120 in the upper room in the early part of back to buy the third century, the entire Roman Empire was Christian. How does that happen while it happens through faithful witnesses and so there's there's no question that the gospel is being extended through the saints who are suffering.

That's exactly right. Sharing in the fellowship of Christ's sufferings and it's a difficult subject, as we mentioned at the outset, but something we really need to wrap our minds around. And as you said to see the ultimate purpose that God would be glorified in his church and it's just a great book. I highly recommend Christians in the crosshairs persecution in the Bible and around the world today. Dr. Gregory Cochran, spending time with us in such an honor. Greg, I really been with us.

Thank you, Sherry Coppola got less detail all right will be back on chant effort today after that statement us. This archived broadcast of Janet for today is brought to you by Liberty health, share liberty, health share is a nonprofit healthcare sharing ministry that allows you to control and manage your own healthcare and choose any doctor or hospital in the nation.

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In a recent magazine. Are you the singer Sierra talked about the fact that she and her husband sex until they got married and in this interview she's dead, you shouldn't feel like you have to give your body a way to get someone to like you. I really like that now. Years ago, this was a much more common belief that you should wait until you're married to engage in sex, but these days as we know, anything goes. And yet the message of abstinence is still a vital one for kids today to hear and so were to talk about it today was Scott Phelps.

He is founder and Executive Director of the abstinence and marriage education partnership which teaches abstinence in public and private schools all across America. They train teachers and offer curriculum for students to ensure that every teenager can choose the safest, healthiest lifestyle and over the past decade and a partnership has provided workbooks for over a million teenagers. I'm really excited to welcome Scott here to the show.

Scott, great to hear what they really appreciate your well. It's great to have you here Scott you nuts, interesting.

I saw a lot of angry comments online about the singer touting abstinence.

I guess this is just a sign of the times is in it that if you actually wait until you're married, you're some kind of freak something and it really the time and you know our greatest concern is got a generation of kids growing up who don't really even understand not only will they appreciate savings like turmeric, they don't even understand or know about. For example, I I still remember the comments a girl at a Chicago public high school who wrote this evaluation after a presentation on the benefits of waiting until marriage. She said I after the presentation, she said, I think saving sex for marriage is a great idea.

I never thought of that before. That's what I want to do you think about that football you've never heard about that before you don't have to stop for very long to realize that there's really nowhere in culture decided that you would hear a message like that and so are our encouragement to parents and educators after you got to be very intentional in teaching our young people not only to avoid sexual activity.

Now, but to wait for marriage.

That marriage is good and valuable and special and wonderful and so were called a and M, we want to keep some apps away, but we also just as important are even more important what you can let marriage look good and beautiful thing because that being lost, yet it's it's a good point and it's really sad when you have somebody say I never really thought about not having sex until I got married. Is it partly because marriage has really been looked upon with the last reference in the last decade or so that people say, well, why do I need to get married. I can live together, and if I that doesn't work out I can go live with another guy. No question.

Marriage rates are the all-time record low in our culture. For the first time after our marriage right about 50% so we always been a majority marriage culture first time about a year or so ago we dropped below 50% will are no longer a majority married country and so at the same time rates, cohabitation, or an all-time high. So yet that currently is a part but it's not even marriage is disparaged so much is just not even discussed.

Not even talked about so that the typical sex education program. For example, is going to go class after class after class, talking to kids about black double mention ever about marriage that our biggest concern that's that's such a fundamental thing. I guess if you went through school years ago. You just assume, of course, again we talking about marriage.

But you hear about all of these sex ed classes that just anything goes.

They teach him anything and everything, but without any sort of moral foundation. What have you been observing about the problems with sex ed programs per se and what they leave out, and what they inculcate in kids as far as a worldview. Biggest problem is what they leave out again, marriage, marriage, and that's not just sex education can be absent the programs as well. Unfortunately, and I say this with some fat that increasingly abstinence education programs don't even mention marriage either because the controversy all we don't go there. Using this is you notes for the trumpet that I'm trying to put the blow is good. Let people know that it's really really critical if you're going to teach them anything about sex, particularly abstinence you have to teach them about marriage so coming back to sex education programs that are just crazy. I mean, if people knew what most say most wealth most sex education programs for sure I was for most schools but a lot of schools but you sex education program. The kinds of things are being taught today. I would say that much of the sexual dysfunction in our culture is being inculcated through sex education programs which are going to teach. Basically, anything goes.

Need to do anything except marriage.

That is to say, yeah, you should experiment you can explore, to try to figure out you know what your gender is your Outlook lifestyle and in all nonsense really is actually being peddled in our schools now Planned Parenthood is not only the largest provider of abortion in America. It's also the largest provider of sex that you think what you think implement that Planned Parenthood is the largest provider of sex education public schools today and got bats were so much of this dysfunction is coming from. Well, that's right.

And you know when you talk about abstinence education.

I thought it was interesting what you just said that in some cases, abstinence-based education. Proponents will say I only want to touch the marriage thing.

I guess because of the Oberto file decision and they don't tread into that. But what about abstinence education the way you teach it and the curriculum that you use when you going to schools.

How do you formulate the whole argument for abstinence. Very good. So really pretty question.

So when I go into a classroom. The first thing I say is hey I'm here to talk to you about just saving all sexual act of the war. Marriage and as soon as I say, that you might be thinking we never hear that that's why I'm here I'm here this week.

The talk you say things to you that you're not here. Anywhere else on TV you're at in your classroom.

The reason I'm here today is to teach you something that you're not here. Anywhere else.

Alyssa laughed and I'm telling you there leaning in. They want to hear that they've never heard it before. Do you have difficulty getting into public schools in order to expound the message of abstinence before marriage. Some yes I know. So basically we go to school but want us there are a lot of schools that don't get a lot of schools and Saul were like in a fight the battle we are going to make a presentation if the school will have us. We will going out.

We provide workbooks of the five different workbooks years one we did with a few green from the MBA and what we do is we provide workbooks for school and then we train up the teachers how to teach it because if we can train the teachers who are already in the classroom to teach the program the future the next 15, 20, 25 years. That's good what what sorts of approaches to take a mean what we obviously have a number of age ranges in the public schools. I don't know how young you starts but you have different curricula for different age groups hi you press the issue for the younger ones versus the older ones. Not much different. To be honest with you. Our programs are really only middle school and high school and Saul were really talking about, seventh, eighth, ninth and 10th grade are we really fundamentally teach the program primarily and the message is going to be very similar in all program will just have a little bit more detail in a little bit more information for the older kids, but for the circuit but the central message is laying out because what what University of Michigan found is that 9/10 high school senior say I really want to get married and have a family someday. I want to go out and so we can start with the foundation but most had both middle school and high school to have with in them.

This desire for marriage and family and so working to go in and talk to them about what that looks like and how you can get there how your decision is now are going to impact the future marriage and family is actually the framework that the AMP is we want to really go in and paint the picture of what marriage and family are and can be and how your decisions as a middle school and high school students can affect that in the future. And once you sort of laid out that way. They are much more willing to listen to what you have to say because not you're talking about with near and dear to their heart sir a lot about education focus on negative disease and all of that and we don't want to focus on that will talk about very good to go on break were to come back when Scott sounds from abstinence and marriage education partnership will come back on Sinemet for today right after this, you need a healthcare program you're unlocking is a member of Liberty help share your part of the community that comes together to share their medical expenses. You can sign up throughout the year.

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All gifts are tax-deductible. That's 855402 baby 855-402-2229 or there's a pre-born banner to for today. My guess Scott Phelps, founder and Executive Director of the abstinence and marriage education partnership and it is so vital to link abstinence with marriage. One of the things you have in your materials. Here Scott that I was reading says that abstinence is not merely about avoiding pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, but more significantly, it is about helping teens prepare for a future marriage and family, and that's what you said before the break that in most cases, that's what kids want to look forward to. So how do you do that how do you frame abstinence in terms of future marriage and family critical. So all of our programs start off with goal setting where you want to be in the future.

What you how do you see your you know where you see yourself tenure 15 years. 20 years from now we want to have them have some sort of sense of where their life is going and when I stand in front of the class and asked him to tell me about the thing they're hoping for in their lives. They will say things like in the universe by the will of the country for universe, but hopefully things like no get married, have a family graduate college get a good job. Have a nice haul you know all those kinds of things that are very universe will say never never have I had a class for one person. I never had one person say I'm hoping in the future. I don't get an STD's letter words, no, no, no. Going to be inspired. No student is going to be inspired toward abstinence until marriage by you know the whole SCD threat. We will talk about it, but it's not the thing we want to focus on what we really want to focus on where you want to go in the future. What you hoping for and I we really want to help them understand the way to get there and by painting that picture of future hope for the four hope for future marriage.

That's where we get a lot of traction work should start to being interested and so it's not just about the negative just avoiding thing is really about preparing well for future marriage and all the principal all you're going to exercise and ask your self control, self-restraint, respect, responsibility on all of the things you're going to employ character trait you're going to develop unique practicing at are the very thing they're going to enable you to have a healthy gospel marriage that how we laid out is really good because I think that's a problem, often with teenagers. They don't think past tomorrow or maybe next week. They're not thinking about 15 years from now. Do you want to be a single mother or do you know are you hoping that you maybe have three different baby daddies. I mean, most people think like that. But you're right, I think framing it positively is such a good thing what the advantages statistically.

If for example you get married and then you consummate the marriage. What are you doing that is best for your marriage with your spouse and also your family by waiting, what you tell the kids so glad very good book. One of the ring makes all the different one is why marriage matters at my training seminars. I encourage my teachers training to read those books. Maggie Gallagher case are marriage they got a girl in the way all of the books are going to do is help people understand the benefit of marriage for the couple and for their children and how waiting is going to benefit them in having that happy, healthy future marriage that's really good. So what about the slips I does Scott what about the links between premarital sex and future difficulties.

Yeah well there. There certainly is that what you were saying in terms of goal like that.

I actually read a story to the kid is a true story from one of my seminar participants who told me a story about being sexually active in high school and then she said I ended up being sexually bonded to my boyfriend. I married him as I want to but I could go to get out of. And then she says now for marriages for marriages. Later and then three abortions later two children by different fathers. Later, she said.

I would wishing that someone had told me this when I was a teenager and so that's a true story that I'm able to share with just a look if you were writing down your future hope school you would write this out this lady.

Looking back over her life is. I wish teenager. What helped me understand why waiting until marriage is so fundamental marriage right there at all time low nonmarital all-time high.

40% of children born outside of the marriage relationship, specially high among the twentysomething ages 20 to 24 have a nonmarital birth rate over 50%. Most children born to twentysomethings, 20, 24-year-old outside of the marriage relationship is a real problem. A lot of that is education. That's what we want to do is we want to go to school not to stand out front with you.

Giving homage to get right.

But really going to schools and say here's a better way to teach kids healthier lifestyle is going to benefit from now and help restore the institution of marriage in America really fundamental.

It is wondering how you address one of the main arguments I always hear from the Planned Parenthood crowd that abstinence is just not realistic mean. These kids they're going to grow up there and I want to do what they want to do and it's pie-in-the-sky. It's a you know when you're setting people up to fail.

How do you address the not realistic argument is laughable.

Actually, because while I point out you control most high school students in America never had any sexual contact of any kind and that 70% of high school are not sexually active, while not currently sexually active. So the definition of what is realistic what what is real truth is, most high school students are abstinence. You can't say what most are actually doing is unrealistic mission real because doing so you have to you have to fight back is a very big on crack and understanding what the reality is, and the reality is that most kids are not sexually active. They need to hear why so in many cases were not so much just waving them from sexual activity as we are encouraging in their current state. You know what you're doing now is good stay on that path because I have been active yesterday about the daily choice you're going to make your future and if you've been active in the past were not here to talk about that could go back and you look forward and you can you can get on a new path for new track and that is a very attractive very very willing and eager to hear yeah I can imagine. And that's such a good point that you already have a huge base of kids who are not sexually active in high school and Planned Parenthood would probably prefer otherwise.

They have a vested interest in kids being sexually active is just incredible to me that they're the ones who are allowed into schools to give this sex ed message when they clearly have a vested interest in kids moving forward in that direction because they stand to make money off them. Clearly the case clearly yeah it's crazy stuff, so incorporating a pro-marriage message. What if you found to be some of the most effective ways of incorporating a marriage message with kids like someday you're gonna want to get married, but giving up hope because a lot of kids there kids who come from divorced homes. They don't have a lot of they want to get married, but they have a lot of doubts about whether or not there marriages could be successful. How you help them along the way starting point starting point of marriage and talking to them about the value and the beauty of marriage and so for example, one of the exercises that you are not thinking about themselves, but I find that even already thinking about children. It's not uncommon for example for young girls middle school right will be talking about baby you know they're already thinking about their own children that we have in our quest workbook usually journal article that you and your data lays out the poverty rate for children in a single marriage household a cohabitating household, parent household, a cohabiting household in a married household and got several different percentages. Their percentage of kids living in poverty in each of these different arrangement in a course or able to show is that the kid living with a married mom and dad there are better kids either in the single-parent household or the cohabiting the challenges of course that many of these kids are in those arrangements and so how do you address students who left let's say for example I'm in a Chicago public school as I have been where the African-American that I know the nonmarital birth unity is 72% saw how my classroom and talk to you about.

They need a mom and that all debts to challenge very challenging challenges that most educators will pick up absolutely will, unfortunately, but you can check out a.m. Scott Phelps with Esther Masten is a marriage education partnership. So glad to talk to Scott, thank you so much for what you doing for being with us today. Thank you so much for that, our website. Thanks for listening and will see their

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