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Vern Poythress (Trinity) Jonathan McKee (Teens)

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The Truth Network Radio
December 20, 2021 4:00 am

Vern Poythress (Trinity) Jonathan McKee (Teens)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd

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December 20, 2021 4:00 am

What can we learn about God's attributes by examining His three persons? Dr. Vern Poythress, distinguished professor at Westminster Theological Seminary, joins me to discuss his book, "The Mystery of the Trinity: A Trinitarian Approach to the Attributes of God." Plus: Youth culture expert Jonathan McKee discusses his book, "The Teen's Guide to Face to Face Connections in a Screen to Screen World: 40 Tips to Meaningful Communication." Join us for Monday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you in part by American underdog from Lions gate in the team that brought you. I can only imagine based on the true story of championship winning quarterback Kurt Warner American underdog.

Rated PG parental guidance suggested in theaters everywhere. Christmas Day is Janet Mefford today.

Our confidence is in Christ alone again in John 1030 I and the father are one. Now that was a revolutionary and some believed blasphemous declaration that this man would proclaim himself to be God. And yet we do know Jesus is God, God the son and God the father and God the Holy Spirit are the other two persons of the Trinity, one God in three persons. We also know the Trinity is clearly revealed in Scripture. But it's also a deep mystery with no adequate analogy to explain it. If you have kids you know that that's the truth.

He had in considering some of the deep questions. Many have about God's attributes. There are answers to be found by understanding the nature of the Trinity and that's what my next guest has done in his latest books and joining us today is Dr. Vern Poythress distinguished Prof. of New Testament biblical interpretation, and systematic theology at Westminster theological seminary in Philadelphia's book is called the mystery of the Trinity, a Trinitarian approach to the attributes of God. So good to have you with us.

Dr. Poythress think he is so much for being here should think about what you think it is important to do it this way to explore God's attributes through a specifically Trinitarian approach over the centuries people have gotten into unbelieving philosophy and they've tried to deal with God, as it were me abstractů Reason about what God is like.

So they may end up saying will. God is all-powerful and he is and for that is unchanging and get a few things, but they don't give them quite right because you have probably understand how God relates to us, and how he's able to create a world that involves things that are differentiated within God for us is when God created the world.

He does it by speaking while the speech of God can be distinguished from God. And yet it issues from God will that goes back to the good God is one God in three persons in the second person is called the word speech of God so that it actually helps us with understanding how God could be the same, and created the world will that's a good point. You're right because the more we look at the three persons in one God in the Trinity, the more we can see different angles on God and why things are true. And you're totally right about that but when you're looking at some of these attributes you focus on some very important attributes about things like his immutability, his omniscience, his omnipresence, his simplicity on the issue of divine simplicity.

What is that doctrine because people will say, for example, God is not simple hot, what is divine simplicity good label and somewhat become a technical term. So when you hear somebody say God is simple. You don't mean what the ordinary person because he means well.

Simple process right shoveled understand them but simplicity is actually the opposite of having parts so you can't God up in the parts in the persons of the Trinity are not three parts of God, who together make up one God made each one of them heard of a God by the last snow when it says should the word was God. For instance, in John one thing is a part of God but videos much harder to process for us because God is infinite, and we can't understand him exhaustively fully comprehensively so it's easy for people to fall into a picture with a picture of three parts of God that doesn't have parts that Apple you can cut it up into three parts or more parts write the Cape Cod God help because she's a spirit is not though spatially combined the way Annapolis but ambition, even conceptually, you can cut them up into concepts that would lie in back of him. So what we say for instance that God is unchangeable or that he is eternal. The idea of you term valid to go.

The idea on changeability is not something in back of God that already exists then suddenly God comes into the picture that is forced to conform to something outside of it, because that would be good for him to be less than God he is old he is who he is. So eternity is not something in back of God, but just one aspect of who God is. So that's important to them if they will average person doesn't worry about. This is just as well but again philosophers when they get into this kind of thing they're tempted to look for something in back of God, that would be a more ultimate explanation of who you will such a world of explanation doesn't exist because God is old but you can get yourself into trouble about that and so the word simplicity is meant to guard us from doing that kind of thing to say no you Break him up. Conceptually, either template concepts and would be more ultimate than who we writes, but I should say, the idea of God. Simplicity has been defined in several different ways.

Part of the problem is that some of the definitions bring in some bad philosophy and may God inaccessible to us. Yes yeah right and then you get into that in your booking your also addressing these questions. I'm not sure will be able to get all of them. I would love to get limited time, one of which is how can God be independent and yet have relations to the world and the things in the world to me. How should we understand this premise that God is independent obviously he has no need of anyone or anything. And yet he does have a relationship with us through his son Jesus Christ.

Some people do wonder about that if if God doesn't need anybody, why are we here right well one answer is to say that there are relations between the person and God the father loves the son and gives the Holy Spirit to them internally. This is all mysterious, but the relations and God are the foundation for the fact that God can manifest who is in relations to seek and establish relationships because that's in accord with who we already use mysterious blood through if you want you can use a human analogy and say you were finite. So it's not Susan analogy were not God and never will be, but if you think of a mature person is well established truth whose grown into a full and rich personality and with confidence in who is that kind of person is actually more able to establish fruitful relationships with other people because she's stable and who is a kind of analogy to say precisely because God is independent of the stable and who he is with you doesn't have needs that he can reestablish wonderful relations with us to good points. That's a good point.

What aspect of God's love, which you signed any kind of a Trinitarian explanation for that question.

Oh yes, because it is said in John 334 and 35 John five as well, right in the Bible.

The father loves the son and it's an internal reality so love existed in God and love between the persons as well as our ability for God is love right that existed in God before ever there was a world sometimes people make the mistake of saying well, God had to make a world because he needed somebody to love Malley did is already internally meant that love along the persons of the Trinity, then sometimes get a joker saying how can God love himself. Isn't that narcissistic coming. I am sure there is somebody somewhere who is trying to raise that point it kinda blasphemous lay but is that a problem at all. Philosophically, from a standpoint of the Bible's teaching and again people if they think independently of God and try to work out his minds could dictate who God is. Then they can tie themselves in all kinds of not true, but if we say we just began by saying God show himself to be. Then of course he's going to love himself because she's perfectly lovely exactly. The only thing that doesn't plead with the fact that he loves us and what you yourself said that he doesn't have any need person who is a needy person if they try to look at both ends of the counterclaim and voided type of thing which is valuable will come back with Dr. Vern Poythress from lines you. I can only imagine comes American underdog. So starting grocery shelves while trying to hold onto his dreams of playing the working for this my entire life story serving as a volunteer on the Mercy ship is venture like no other and you will be serving on the largest nongovernmental hospital ship in the world, providing free care to some of the world's poorest people. Whether it's performing the surgery cleaning the deck or transporting the patient to a recovery center. Every day you will be making a difference in the lives of struggling people begin your adventure today connect with us at Mercy ship.every day babies and their mothers whims are fighting for life, with abortion being the leading cause of death, I might meet at the Ministry of pre-born has pregnancy centers nationwide standing by to help young moms in crisis. Choose life freeborn is the largest provider of free ultrasound sessions in the country by letting the mother see her baby in the womb and hear the baby's heartbeat. She's 80% more likely to choose life for her baby. When I'm there writing me. My ultrasound is where faith is like to start crying I can and sometimes the blessing is doubled. Would you join with pre-born in Janet Mefford today to help save 400 babies by the end of the year for $140 you can sponsor five ultrasounds and help save five babies from abortion and now through match your gift will be doubled to donate dial 855402, baby.

That's 855-402-2229 or there's a banner to click in Janet Mefford.com you're listening to Janet Mefford today and know you're welcome back great to have you with us in great-aunt with us. Dr. Vern Poythress from Westminster theological seminary, where he serves as distinguished Prof. of New Testament biblical interpretation, and systematic theology. He's out with a great book called the mystery of the Trinity, a Trinitarian approach to the attributes of God, and Dr. Poythress. I have to apologize I shouldn't ask those kinds of questions when we catch just a few seconds before we have to go to the break.

I apologize for that but there's just so much to discuss here on Trinitarian explanation for all of these attributes of God that you're addressing in this book, but another question that you delve into in this book is the question of how can God be immutable. That is unable to change and act toward the world.

So, are there boundaries around God's immutability would you say it's indicative more of God's character than his actions because clearly he's not able to change. I the Lord do not change. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever. That's what the Bible says and yet God is active in his world.

At the same time. How should we understand immutability and how does the Trinity give us a better picture of of the result resolution. I guess to this question. Question 102.

You are the same in your years of no and affirming the sameness of God throughout the throughout all time. But that same Psalm praises God for having created the world. So in the Bible. There's really no tension between those two things the ultimate reason is found as you have already mentioned in the Trinitarian character of God that there's an eternal activity of law. The maternal activity of the father speaking, the sun is that kind of activity which is absolutely compatible with God being unchanging because it's maternal activity gets out of that activity that we see also differentiated activities in the world and you can use a human analogy. Say that again. The person who is a dull person who is God, the rich and fully developed personality values. The person who is stable in himself was faithful right that we can count on to tell the truth and to be come through with his promises that kind of person who is able richly to interact with the world again.

You can use the example of French and Scott being a God of justice that he's going to reward good and punish the evil consistent with this being the same God is going to do different things at different times, precisely because he is saying yes so really you know when you think about it in the biblical way. Actually, many of these things that seem to be problems they sold or dissolved in the essay work that isn't really a problem because of who God is true. That's a good point and you else pops in my head is you think about someone 10 word says the Lord has sworn and will not repent. Talk about thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek, and then you have other verses where it talks about God repenting, you know, Genesis 66 God's repentance for making man on the earth as it repented the Lord it says in one translation and people will read those verses and say how could God repent God has nothing to repent so is that part of this bigger picture as well that will one of the problems that we've got a record one of the challenges I got a recognized when the Bible uses a word with respect to God. It's not going to mean exactly the same thing as we associate with every instance of human repentance or relenting some of the translations are different, but it basically means God is doing one thing and then it comes to weight and he reverses and goes in the different direction does something else.

But of course that's partly because the situation is changed.

So again, one a just God is going to in evaluating situations is going to do different things at different times. One of the famous instances that I'd actually deal with. My book is in first Samuel chapter 15 because it talks about the dog is regretting that he made Saul king and then a little later in the same chapter it says that God does not have regret, why should says it and so what you do with that will it's clear that God is put that whole chapter together there actually for verses that use the language of regret and to of them.

He doesn't regret the other three does regret what God put that passage there is a hole in order that we would look at it very carefully and say what there's different contexts for those statements. I once we try to sort out what is it mean in context and not to say with the general reaction well make up your mind. As she regret something or does he nodded look at the context and what's happening and you will see that the earlier statement where God regretfully made Saul king is basically part of a judicial evaluation that should that's in the light of the failure of Saul and his behavior as King L course God knew from the very beginning. What would happen but they are at that point in and of the text. He is standing as a judge evaluating what Saul has done and so it's gonna remove them from the kingship so that is exactly it isn't like this is the other thing it is in like a man regretting because typically when we say oh I regretted that decision. It's because we have further information that we didn't have and we say will know if I'd known what I knew now that I would never of made such such a decision right.

I regret that decision because I was a finite person who didn't have the information that I should've had. Will God is not like like us and that the mansion because he already knows everything, but he is saying. He's evaluating things in terms of what all is already happened. So it's you gotta go into a passage taking account a lot of contexts and sometimes their passages and I think God the course he knew what he was doing the put the chapter there is a challenging chapter. He knew that people would look at it and say what's going on so it's actually an invitation to gotta slow down and take it carefully and think what is actually being said here rights context matters in understanding the greater picture of what's being said in that chapter. She said matters a lot and asked is this point of analogical language, which is what you talk about when you're answering this question about how descriptions that some people see is unworthy of God could be used to describe him in Scripture that's what you're getting at something else that I think is very intriguing is the question that you address how can finite man truly know the infinite God. Now when you are giving a Trinitarian answer to that question. Obviously, the incarnation comes into play right because God became man so they are the infinite became finite and yet he still infinite. How do you take that one and an answer that for people who truly don't understand how we can know an infinite God. If we are in fact finite right well and again they're going to remain mysteries here, but one of the aspects is before the incarnation, and that man is made in the image of God.

Genesis 1 yes so we are not like animals we have. We have many capabilities are superior to the animal kingdom. One of them is our capacity for religious relationship in our capacity for deep knowledge so you can say it's precisely because God made us crafted us from the beginning to be recipients of knowledge of him. He knew what he was doing that.

We Set of step behind the curtain, as it were, and pretend that we are God so that we could see in detail exactly what that means something. That's the temptation to be God. While you will see God will never understand things to the very bottom, but can we accept because we trust God Makes up yeah he made me with this kind of capacity and is people read the Bible may ask God himself through the Holy Spirit that got himself.

Help me to understand this people find more and more they do understand.

So again, and confident.

Actually, God is showing the who we really brighten a level so that I could get the God and know him as Sheila is not only he knows himself, but on the level of I really have confidence in God is shown me what kind of God is who we use and Jesus in the John 17 does something similar.

He says this is eternal life, that the thing they know that is the disciples that they know you are the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent this and he goes on to talk about the fact that I have given to the disciples the word which you gave me so. This is important I think this is a really important subject, actually, because I think of what the Bible says about eternity in our hearts. We are finite, but yet we will have eternal life. So were not God. We could never become God.

But there is an infinite component because we are created in God's image in the first place. The relationship that God has made possible, who really is God yeah that's right.

Do you feel that when were talking about the mystery of the Trinity that it's important to emphasize the confines of the Bible not going beyond the confines of the Bible in order to discern the mystery of the Trinity is this is where we sometimes fall into a trap. Don't we trying to understand God's ways are not our ways. There's a sense in which we cannot completely fully understand him as human beings difference between God where you trust him and saying I really trust that you've given me the lowdown so to speak to the lowdown on who you are, particularly in this climactic revelation in Christ give us the real God or we satisfied with out or we looking for something more really were looking for something more than will go outside the Bible or underneath a viable Lord, you know, some kind of extra thing and then we get ourselves into trouble. We sure do. Well it's a great book. The mystery of the Trinity by Dr. Vern Poythress. Check it out. It's just fantastic and so good to have you with this Dr. waitress thank you so much. Thank you again for inviting me. Now my pleasure to care. God bless you will be back on Janet Mefford today. After this this archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you in part by American underdog from Lions gate and the team that brought you. I can only imagine based on the true story of championship winning quarterback Kurt Warner American underdog. Rated PG parental guidance suggested in theaters everywhere Christmas Day Mefford today and here's your host Joe Mefford. What do you do if you become a slave to your smart phone.

Well, if you're a parent or grandparent you might say I am not a slave to my phone but is that true for your teenager likely not even if both you and your teen are overly attached to your screens, you can be screen wise and connect with the people around you more effectively join me now is authoring youth culture expert Jonathan McKee and he is here to talk about this, along with his latest book teens guide to face-to-face connections and a screen to screen world 40 tips to meaningful communication and Jonathan.

It's great to talk to you again. How are you man I am good thank you very good to be here. Well thank you II think this book is kind of interestingly time since a lot of us could use more face-to-face communication. Right now everything seems to be on zoom what you make about this whole plot twist on your thesis that young adults need more face-to-face contact when that's exactly what everybody seems to want right now exactly know it is interesting how timely the book is actually became more even more interesting fact even coded there with kind of that desire to connect, and I know adults tend to be skeptical.

There's a Manny. I know that with my own group.

Every time I look at me, staring at his device. I can't know what he would pry his eyes up from his devising. I hear that a lot you and you think figure 1 the fact that we as adults actually according to both studies.

The guys you count the numbers and how much screen time with intraday most adult actually clock in more screen time teenagers my molars out up the TV on the phone and all that up. The other thing engineers directly surveyed about this and saying you hey how much you knew how to you about the medical teenagers were actually you said that I would actually prefer to spend more time face-to-face. Then screen discrete network that was pre-that was just going into COBIT so now of course the COBIT. I think it all been proven because were starting to see a lot of people getting restless and working. They will rather be hanging out with my friends that you know you got references so evident and follow singular. I think they want, but you don't necessary know how that's one of the reasons why we wrote this book to start engaging in conversations about what does this actually look like yeah that's a really important point that COBIT has really made a lot of teenagers more aware that face-to-face isn't so bad it's actually preferable when you're not allowed to do.

It is much as you were pre-pandemic. This is interesting because you are tackling this subject with the help of your daughter, Alyssa, can you talk a little bit about Alyssa's experience because I know she took a break from Instagram. She's a young adult herself what sort of experiences did she have it impacted the way that you're addressing the issue in the book and no actually great question because what we know what I'm writing with her because of very unique and I got a 20 something right with me and one other thing that she was born in 1995 that puts her in a unique time in law to be a little special about that. What what it did is put her in 2012. In her junior and her senior high school 2012 is not only the year that America crossed the 50% mark for everybody having smart phones in their pocket so would that look like on a typical high school campus. All of a sudden by her junior year.

There was this transition from the old just texting and talking phones to smart phone that was happening during her junior and senior here.

Not only that, 2012 was a full year. The snapshot came out it was year that Instagram became a thing. So what she basically noticed what all of a sudden in 2012.

Her junior year. Notice this transition and change.

Please not know the other last talking face to face more head buried in Instagram work PM things that you achieve the car I use to become a full conversation work, look at more people with their heads now. Because they had in their pocket. So for her with a big change and wanted think she talked about her chapter titled Insta gratification is you talk specifically about the effects of social media on her and she talked and she give examples of what that look like I love having a young person's perspective for you know one thing she did, she described the day. Now, with her friend on road trip where they were going on event there is a beach in for her because more time trying to find the Insta perfect picture instead of actually enjoying the event and then ship it when they were coaching the pics that they made him they made her feel terrible about herself because she thought that I don't feel better and for her. The old day dress made her feel as if she said it took me to some unhealthy places and she's not down on the phone.

She got even specifically, scrambled for her. She said it was time for a change.

So she decided to take a fast from Instagram and she took a break, she decided to take a break for a year. Become the book talked about it but was leaving because open for her to love it.

Later in the book she described this game were she's going out with a friend that she was driving with one finger for an article and after driving on the road wind whipping through their she says it was so nice having the pressure to post the picture but just go away.

The moment was the book to start talking about I really understand that because the world has changed a lot. I know my husband and I have both observed that had we gotten engaged in the Instagram era we would've been hating it's because were not the selfie sorts were not really into that are getting a perfect picture of him proposing on the beach or anything like that.

Yeah I mean there's nothing wrong with doing that. It's just not my generation's way of getting engaged as we can have that kind of stuff, but this is a pressure point, I think you brought up something very important in your daughter has to the pressure point of feeling like because of what I see on my smart phone, particularly the social media. It just makes you think a different way. It makes you insecure in different ways and we've seen a lot of this, I think, especially with girls handling this pressure to look perfect and to be like we where he had that with magazine covers. Now it's just taken up about 40 notches now actually end up in the Parker is having a good way to working it or erasing a defect in the mental health work can affect their physical well being.

The green felt that the mental health think that interesting when you look at that much occurred. Who decided to puke on a clear the record their perfect right going into COBIT and through the beginning of COBIT Dr. Jean twinge and Dr. Jonathan eight they decided to get together and talk with let's set the record straight because the debate about what you know is is it really you know it is screen time affecting young people's mental health and there was some debate.

Some people think. Come on you did, how much time I daughter spends you watching Netflix or my playing video games does not really affect them what they decided to do is they said let's look at this and let me create an open source document that everybody chime in with your findings. Let's look at the sea. Exactly how much is affects people. The fascinating thing was they do so much with Jan, but what they agreed on all the experts when they really pulled their data together and look to silk it.

What we agree on what they agreed on was two things. One, there was a mental health crisis going into COBIT three COBIT there is a mental health crisis going on right now overseeing you know suicide anxiety all this stuff spiking like like none before that at astronomical level. The second thing they all agreed on is that when you look at screen time. In general, it wasn't necessarily such clear data that Netflix or video games really affection people. But when you narrow your search to just the effects of social media specifically on girls.

This data is clear and conclusive hang on just a second. So sorry we have to run to a very quick break will pick up the conversation right after this Jonathan McKee team's guide to face-to-face connections and a screen to screen world.

Stay with us. This is Janet Mefford for Bible league international. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

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In some states I was afraid I was skiing. I know what to do every byline we have all wishing pre-born is the largest provider of free ultrasounds in the country, helping moms choose life. You see mom and crisis sees her baby on ultrasound and here's the heartbeat she's 80% more likely to choose life for her baby and I was like wow beautiful thing he would you join with pre-born and Janet Mefford today and help save 400 babies by the end of this year for $140 you can sponsor five ultrasounds and now through match your tax-deductible gift is doubled saving 10 babies lives to donate, dial 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or there's a banner to click and Janet Mefford.com you're listening to an automatic Jonathan McKee is here offering youth culture expert.

You can find more@thesourceforparents.com that's the website and it is the number for the source for parents.com he and his daughter Alyssa McKee are out with a great book team's guide to face-to-face connections in a screen to screen world and these are 40 tips to meaningful communication.

Jonathan before we went to the break you were talking about some of the no data on this issue of screen time affecting mental health and you were talking about the aspect of this data that pertains to social media when you really focus on social media. What kind of effect does that have on teenagers. Specifically, the girls yeah I crazy when you look at it because, again, not much how much screen time you're spending all screen time is not created equal. If not, Netflix is not much you have time to spinning video gaming or whatever, but social media in particular is creating a pressurized environment for young people and so because of that were starting to see some of these spikes in depression and anxiety, suicide attempt, a lot of people have seen the recent Netflix special called the social dilemma and verified that same Dr. Dr. JonBenet was one of the guys there talking about the effects of anxiety on young people there and what were starting to see so as parents we need to start paying attention that one think we need do is we start creating conversation on see why my daughter I wrote this book we got something parents would love to talk about this, but they don't know exactly how to talk about. They don't know what to say.

I would you say phones are bad oh critical. This is a way for us to create a conversation and each chapter. We wrote this kind of talk about some of the things are going on here and we have discussion questions at the end of each chapter so the you can dialogue about what this looks like.

While this is important and you know here I'm showing my dinosaur cried here but you know the things that I say to my kids often is. Do any of you people actually talk on the phone anymore means we really need the phone aspect of the phone because it doesn't seem apart from the Internet and apart from the texting that there's much usage of the phone and I'm told I know we don't talk on the phone anymore, but I knew that what about going back to talking on the phone, it would seem that having even if you're not able to be face-to-face.

Having an actual conversation is preferable to everything being online that you weigh in on that particular issue yet will you know we talked about the book. One thing we. We waited the difference between texting, talking face time, and good old-fashioned face-to-face.

I get up person.

It's right there in front of you on the one thing that we kept saying over and over again in the book is no way the great tool for connecting with people outside the room when it doesn't interfere with our relationship with the people inside the room and again that that's on things work work work they don't don't go the thing away the phone.

The bad tool. It actually could be a very effective tool, but you know sometimes we just need to put the thing in our pocket and enjoy the person is right there that's good advice that's good advice. Although sometimes it is difficult for even adults to be able to do that. What the issue of addiction addiction to your phone because I've seen articles along those lines and concerns that some experts have raised about the fact that social media in particular is designed to keep you addicted. It's like the Lays potato chips of your smart phone in a way you know that there's stuff is done to keep you keep you coming back what you do about that research and we talk a little bit about the dopamine hits and and what does your brain you are certain things out there like a slot machine. For example, you know, that is, designed to got to get you to anticipate the next great thing.

And when you look at some of the stuff that people the design social media and again that that's where that.doc intranet but fascinating is a talked about that you literally saw people bitten design some of the stuff admitting thereon felt that my job was to try to get people to stay on our as long as possible. You're seeing the effects of this we live right now in the country were 79% of teenagers take their phone into the bedroom with them at night every night, 79% and our family doctor forever thing no screens in the bedroom will 8/10 parents are not listening to that advice. You know, because Ada and young people are, they know let me bring this phone into the bedroom with me at night. Not a good idea so we talk with young people about the book address few young people always say. Have you thought about you know what this is your brain. Have you thought about how this affects your sleep. Have you thought about this affect your relationship instead of just telling kids what to do.

No kid wants to be told what we give some information we tell the story throughout the book and basically say okay take a look at what you think. And then again we provide discussion question this is something work. We help the young people talk with her about. We hope that mom and dad want to hand this book to their kids but built better yet, say the breakfast this Tuesday.

Let's talk about that talk about the effects of the former conversation of the letter. Do we want to create conversations well and Jonathan when you were making the point about stones being a good tool but they shouldn't interfere with connecting to people who are there physically with you in the room and one of the things you you siding here is the passage in Luke 10 with Jesus and Mary and Martha and you know the Lord says you know you worried and upset about many things, Martha, but few things are needed only one thing is needed. What about the effect on your spiritual growth. As a young Christian. I'm thinking of all of this data that's come out about biblical illiteracy and how little people are reading, but in particular, people who are professing Christians are neglecting their Bibles.

I mean it. It seems to me that it would be awfully easy to play on social media more than doing the harder work, but the more necessary work of spending time with the Lord you see that kind of weighing in on on this whole influence that we see of smart phones and screens so it obviously had fact working at big time.

You not only can be a distraction but you know, right away create sometimes we don't have to deal with hard situations or funny how in team circle. There's a there's an unspoken rule of three. If you're standing there in a conversation. There's at least three people or more.

If two people are engaged in a conversation. 1/3, people has been out of the conversation is socially acceptable for them to pick up the phone and look at it because the other two are talking up the rule of three and interesting because in the past were someone be standing there and they would probably know, the way you like. Well, maybe I should engage in a Carthage marriage is just standing here now again this escape with the I can avoid it.

The conversation because I got a nice little device here that didn't just that I can go to while I'm distracted or whatever so interesting how were starting to see you no attention span shortened does this affect our Bible reading. Actually, now I get I'm not demonized with marble because of really cool thing that I use a Bible out in one thing that's cool, but the Bible out and you can take notes.

You could but my wife and I thought we actually like shared the duties reading plant in the thing itself on is it we can actually comment on the reading plan until we send each other note about what we read that they could do nothing that we can actually use the phone can be for good and really what it comes down to is mom and dad what are we bundling with our spiritual where we modeling were spent time in the Lord, whether it be reading an analog paper Bible or digital Bible verse one, the Lord, and were you know didn't know him and he is affecting us and change you that spill over out of our lives and our kids are going to see that if we model this kind of conversation are homes we face no tech at the table. We model what good conversation across the dinner table looks like and talk about spiritual things to talk to what's going on her own life. Not modeling it and talk about it that the impact her family. Big time. But if we ourselves are so distracted their devices that were ignoring some of these needs of our kids got what right and you mention something that's very simple. People can all do which is to say no screens at the table when were having dinner together.

Maybe were having lunch together we can never phones at the table and life will go on if somebody calls you can call them back after lunch or after dinner eat on these sorts of things, it seems maybe going in these very small steps you can make small changes, but I think they know the goal is really important Jonathan and that is to try to connect people, especially your teenagers with other people and not always having to pick up the smart phone or go to Instagram or Snapchat or any of the other social media sites in order to make that happen. We can learn more with the teens guide to face-to-face connections in the screen to screen world by Jonathan McKee and his daughter Alyssa and again if you'd like to check out more about Jonathan's ministry. You can do so by going to his website and that is becoming screen wise.com Jonathan so good to have you here and were really appreciative of your work and and being with us today. Thank you so much for having your welcome. Take care God bless you and thanks for joining us on Janet Mefford today. We will see next time as well.

God bless you this. Our team effort. Today has been brought to you in part by American underdogs from my estate and I can only imagine based on the true story of championship winning quarterback Warner American underdogs rated parental guidance suggested in theaters everywhere


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