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Anthony Esolen (Sexual Insanity) Brant Hansen (Gospel)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd
The Truth Network Radio
December 8, 2021 4:30 am

Anthony Esolen (Sexual Insanity) Brant Hansen (Gospel)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd

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December 8, 2021 4:30 am

The radical sexual insanity of our culture has helped to demolish the Western Mind. I'll talk it over with Dr. Anthony Esolen, professor at Magdalen College of the Liberal Arts and author of, "Sex and the Unreal City." Plus: Brant Hansen explains why it's understanding how bad we are that makes the gospel such good news. He'll join me to talk about his book, "The Truth About Us." That's next time on Wednesday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This Janet Mefford today podcast is brought to you by pre-born for $140 you can provide ultrasounds to five women in crisis pregnancies. Call now 855601. Baby that's 855-601-2229 or visit to our confidence is in Christ alone, the word of God says I sort of know when we talk about the radical sexual and unity in our culture, we often Romans chapter 1, which details what happens when God gives man over to a depraved mind, but Romans 12 is also important to cite when discussing this issue because the first two verses. In fact, have to do with thinking properly about truth in verse two says, for example, do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect and this is the same God who told us to love him with our heart, soul, mind and strength. But when a culture has issued reality and has stopped thinking properly that has all sorts of dark implications and were seen them play out right before our very eyes were to talk about this today with Dr. Anthony Asselin. He is professor of literature and writer in residence at Magdalen College of Liberal arts in New Hampshire and is out with a really great book. It's called sex and the unreal city. The demolition of the Western mind, Dr. Asselin, thank you so much for joining us very well. We are dwelling as you say in unreal city and I like I like this designation.

How do you define unreal city will be in the book man always have a firm grasp on reality, I mean were fallen creatures, and in the best times we are going to fall prey to law a dilution stamp and so forth. But but in our time. I think it's a different character to it. You might in the old times before about was real, but should never doubted that there was such a thing as reality and about ordinary things you could not be fooled right. I mean the ordinary things of any child knows that there were boys or girls there are men, women know we we we have thought ourselves into was stupidity that previous ages could never have conceived it just removed from the fullness of reality. It denies reality of the very root.

Much of our modular unreality has to do with these particular issues regarding sex, marriage and raising children and that it boggles the mind. A minute you almost can't keep up with it if it's like a chaos that they keep falling apart under your feet, you think you reach some low level and all at once before cracks beneath you and you fall over. Further, exactly. I know it's very hard to keep up with that and just when you thought that you'd hit peak insanity. Somebody goes a step further and then you wonder how far to the goalposts eventually move before you can even have language to describe it. I mean, I feel like were almost in those waters already. Yeah, I think we are you almost can't even ask people what the principle is that upon which they based their view of the world because they think you really don't have any.

It's it's it's it's all passion and since there there is no principle of personal bedrock to reach its just a step further and further chaos that these we have here are people who deny the very existence of this very development what what limit is swell. That's right. I mean, if God exists because this is what you say in your book. If God exists in the city that doesn't know God can hardly be expected to know itself, would you say this is really the essence of the problem. This is how these mines got unmoored from reality because they moved further and further away from the concept of God yacht well I think so I can quote Chesterton for suggesting this to us right that the problem with the problem with modern man is not that you ceased to believe in God you having ceased to believe in God, he ends up being an easy mark for any confidence limit comes along.

He ends up believing in anything.

Look at the crazy things that people now try to found their lives upon your your sexual inclinations. That common goal crystals that supposedly have magic powers loosen up politics, which is in our time, especially eminently the realm of the sloganeering and support think the stupidities that people believe that that event that Soviet so bring happiness in the hundreds of millions of people even while people were starving in the Ukraine under Stalin's problem.

The insanities that people have believed in the 20th century, make the most superstitious of the Middle Ages look like Einstein, you're right. You're so right about that. I mean, you mention socialism. For example, I've had the experience I can literally show somebody information about what happened in the Ukraine to the other great famine in stock or anything about Lenin or any other communist country mouth you know any anything you go to in history like communism. It's as if they can't even read it's taken into account. Think it over and then say will maybe there's some room for discussion here that the true believer in the unreal city. It seems just has a passion like you said well that that's what's fair that's what's equal to have my paradise about how in the world can you hold to a paradise when you look at what the Paradise and its philosophy behind it, actually yielded in human history doesn't make any sense know people. The I have this argument with people, said, well, you know, why do you what you claim what you do about the impossibility of this or that social system which is usually fantasy the possibility that will work.

Human nature is not like that right now there were a couple of ways to learn about human nature. One is through hard experience that is you out among human beings all the time. Getting something difficult or date.

Don, like for instance it hundred years ago, your out with a bunch of guys try to clear the field chop down the trees and stumps out of the ground and might take you weeks field with animals.

Two oxen pulled the stumps out chains right, you learn about what people can do together. What can be accomplished how to get people to work.

It either comes to you from there or comes to you from an encounter with great works of literature about mankind. But people are they they don't have you either either Avenue reading the great old books and they don't work in the stockyards or out the fields or ownership don't have those experiences. So there there easy game easy game for the confidence men of ideology is a really good observation and that's long bugged me that we have increasingly a populace that doesn't read that again this goes back to what you discuss having to do with the demolishing of the Western mind and the collapse of college education. I mean, how much of the blame for this can be laid at the feet of academia quite a lot quite a lot. I'm not the first person to save it. Some ideas are so stupid only intellectuals can believe.

Certainly, a farmer could never believe them farmer is farmer would be bound by the severe and unforgiving realities of nature round about them all the time. The farmer can't theorize that 400 pound boulder to move you know you can only move it if you apply 400 pounds of force, and more to get rid of its friction from the ground and all that hethings even if you can't express the mathematically but but intellectuals who who don't read the great old books and who don't have the kind of fidelity forming experiences college level actually thought to come right back take a brief break. Dr. Anthony Asselin sex and the unreal city is come back right after the suntan. This is Janet Mefford for Bible league international. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. These words written early in John's Gospel remind us in this Advent season that God sent his son to be our Lord and Savior that many Christians in Asia, Africa, Latin America and the Middle East have never read those words or the Christmas story in Luke two why because they have no access to the Bible. So in this season of giving. Please join by the league in sending God's word to Bible as believers around the world for only five dollars or $50 for 10 Bibles $500 for 100 call 801 ESW ORD. That's 800 yes word or there's a Bible league banner and Janet people changed to foreign yes somebody's somebody that's 800 YDS W LRD or there's a banner to cling Janet hi this is Janet Mefford for pre-born Candace talks about finding out she was pregnant. Thankfully, an ultrasound provided by pre-born allowed her to hear her baby's heartbeat sonogram sealed the deal for me baby was like this tiny little spectrum of hope.

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Dr. Anthony Asselin, his professor of literature and writer in residence at Magdalen College of the liberal arts in New Hampshire and is out with a great book called sex and the unreal city. The demolition of the Western mind Dr. Russell.

We were talking about this before we ran to the break and you were lamenting the fact that we've got this chaos in academia, and the fact that you don't have the upcoming generations reading these great books that we all.

I mean I remember having to read all of them growing up and I'm not that old, but you know it's not the same in education anymore. Even when you go into the younger grades who you think that people ought to be reading when they're going to school. Some of these great Sina you think of Shakespeare and Milton and Dante. Of course all these great but are there any others you think really ought to be mandatory for kids to read well all the work. Yes we we had a long time fiction that could be read by children without any embarrassment and that whole truths about human beings right so this dickens is tremendous maybe the greatest novelist Weber lived and you don't have to be that old to start reading Dickens or run on on the lighter side. Robert Louis Stevenson or more serious than Stevenson but also know games for free for young people was Rudyard Kipling Jane Austen right with the kids get a little bit older interested in love and marriage before novels got pornographic you know couple hundred years of them and you also have great poetry of our heritage and I've been trying to tell people poetry is dynamite forming the imagination you'll delete 600 pages's you can read in five minutes and maybe maybe remember them commit them to memory poems of Robert Frost, the quintessentially American basically all all of literature that wasn't committed delete anti-Christian war that didn't become pornographic or obscene or in other ways perspective all of this could be put before for young kids. John Senior came up with a list called the thousand good books in various categories and separated for appropriateness for age and I recommend that with excellence that those are all great authors and you mentioned Dickens and that was all week and we all had three great expectations are member having to go through bleak house when I was a senior in high school is like an 800 page book, but it was a great book and and that's that's the problem.

Now we have a cancel culture which is entered the scene and so you have all of these activists who say you gotta get rid of the white man well when you're doing that you are omitting some of the greatest writers ever. Not because they're white but because they wrote great bucks and if you have to use some sort of diversity you no mechanism for deciding who you're gonna read that that's not even about literature anymore.

That's about it. Identity politics and it makes you an idiot.

I mean imagine being in Rome. You're right in front of St. Peter's and St. Peter's Square and somebody says the you know what I have a special ticket we can go to the Sistine Chapel will be any tourists there. We can take our ease. We can spend an hour there just looking around and I've got a guide who will come and tell us what the paintings are what's going on in them. How would you like to come and you reply. Oh no, I do not want to see the paintings of Michelangelo and the others. They were all white men like exactly exactly it. It's insane and it's very hard again your back with the same problem to try to reason with people like this is very difficult.

I mean, do you think that academia actually is salvageable at this point. Or do you think it needs to be in most cases just reestablished from the ground up in an at me. Where are we on that scale. Do you think you most of it needs to be brought down to the ground and the ground so salt so nobody would be able to use that again some there are some small schools that their bitter conflict. Sometimes our Christian and not Catholic that are committed to what's called a classical education, nobody's really just basically an old and old-fashioned education and arts and letters. My school Magdalen College of Liberal arts is one of those places.

Bright spots and we are to be sending our money to them and not to Georgetown and Fordham and Holy Cross in the other place but long abandoned their Christian and Catholic heritage and frankly were lousy places mostly pork for arts and letters. Quite apart from what light those places are almost you were comparable. Most most schools and we were coupled with public school.

This whole system is irremediable unless you talk about charter schools and then there may be some some reform going on there but otherwise all system is whole system is blank. I agree well and you look at the public school system, K-12, and one of the things that you discuss obviously is things like the transgender movement the whole LGBT activism that's just infiltrated everything here we have the transgender movement which you I think rightly say is just the overheating of feminism, which is totally right. One of the characteristics that is inherent in accepting that there is such a thing as a transgender, which there isn't is a denial of the physical body and the actual differences between male and female. You see, the, the mind will accept that you can turn a man into a woman through body altering surgeries and hormones and people actually think you're going to come out the other side is the opposite sex. Why are we accepting that when when pressed, they probably would have to admit me a really can't do that. It's just cosmetic. You can no more change of dog and cat right why we do it because we all it's a sort of cultural and suicidal despair. We no longer believe in anything, I mean if we were really alive.

How beautiful. Each sex is in its distinct way, we would no more want to do such a thing than we would want to climb up on some scaffolding and slather all kinds of paint on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel just vandalized the steam trap that will what we've essentially done is to vandalize the body and it's because we're numb to its beauty and its reality and the one of the effects of the sexual revolution, but nobody foresaw yet another yet another thing to think about it in this continuing calamity. It's very true where you see it had to think much about the future and where the insanity leads 510 years from now I know it's going at warp speed already. But what happens next. You think I don't know what to be the insanity of so quickly to outstrip it outstrips prediction and satire. You know what yesterday you you made a joke about an everybody laugh tomorrow is going to become all all well just naturally everybody knows that.

I think the chaos continues. I am, I have hope is not the same thing as optimism, so I'm not optimistic at all about the about the near future that I have I have hope.

Hope is theological virtue. I think were done for.

Unless there is unless God gives us the grace for wholesale spiritual renewal renewal and revival in in the West were done for yes yes yes. And yet, what about the health of the church you talk from Roman Catholic perspective. I'm talking from an evangelical Protestant perspective it's awfully dire on our side of the fence.

I how do you see your side of the fence. In that regard I see the site in the same in the same boat right that's why write magazine because we get authors from three great branches of Christianity, Eastern Orthodox Catholicism.

We we've got to we've got to hold the line on creation itself. We Say that God just gives us some moral rules but that creation is neutral or amoral doesn't have anything to teach us. God is the creator of this natural order and when we when we say oh we can, it's infinitely malleable we can do anything we want with our bodies. We, that is an affront to God's is the creator and very quickly we lose any faith in him, the creator has creator yet. Well, I mean this is a reject we gotta go back to Gnosticism. Don't wait and figure out how to refute it, and how to point out all of its errors.

Yeah you know is a great resource and all this is CS Lewis Chesterton and talking to them.

If everybody all Christians should read read through the entire works of CS Lewis once every three or four years and then pick up Chesterton. Likewise, because they speak they speak, say, the same kinds of things.

We speak somewhat different dialects is at work that they bring us back to reality, the sheer goodness of physical reality that God created. That's why it's such an effect from St. Paul is going on in Romans chapter 1 right because of sin.

Sin doesn't stop with whatever law you happen to believe now it collapses under your feet and you you go further and further into the main imagination and empathy imaginations and not stopping, it's not stopping unless the must God decide unworthy that we are in the month and the fire believed he was okay. You have what you want you want very important yeah read the book, sex, and the unreal city. The demolition of the Western mind. Dr. Anthony Asselin, thank you so much Dr. wrestling will be back this Janet Mefford today podcast is brought to you by pre-born for $140 you can provide ultrasounds to five women in crisis pregnancies. Call now 855601. Baby that's 855-601-2229 or visit Mefford today and here's your host Joe Mefford remember the words of the apostle Paul in first Timothy 115. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, all of whom I am chief. Why did Paul call himself the chief of sinners. While he outlined it in first contains 15 nine when he said, for I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God and yet he goes on to say, but by the grace of God I am what I am in his grace to me was not in vain.

It was Paul's understanding of how bad he why's that made the gospel. Such good news. The grace of God in Jesus Christ was meant for even the worst of sinners us.

Do we truly understand how bad we are, or do we fall into the world's way of thinking that which is basically good people to talk about this today with author and radio host Brent Hansen.

He's out with a book about it called the truth about us the very good news about how very bad we are.

Brandt welcome great to have you here. Thank you talk you through to what extent have people bought into the lie. Do you think that that work were just basically good people time and I think what weird Christian Catholic youth. There's no question that nobody is good at all and we still do it. Still, like all you I mean he saying in were not all good compared to Hannah but that's not you saying he doesn't want to compare each other to each other at all when one is comparing ourselves to that other person but we do it all the time. The fascinating thing to me what I think you get a kick out of what I wrote about this book is always modern cognitive psychologists basically come to the same conclusion that we are all so beset with biases that we almost can't see straight is delusional about our own good, yeah.

And I find it amazing that there essentially agreeing with Jesus 2000 years later, Cel-Sci yeah you think of Jeremiah 17 nine the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked who can know what he doesn't make an exception for Christians, and it tears Christianity apart. If you buy into that lie because why would you need a Savior. If you're a good person. Just work your way to have in the way that the paganism says that you can. It's not even at the same religion anymore. Totally.

Also, how would you know your good who's actually the judge very good. Jesus himself said no one, yes, but we are saying now. I am so disagreement with the fundamental problem if we pursue result is really good people try to Phaedo in the book is not just like you more saying, look reason people virtue signal so much we can see this in our culture less Christian it gets the more self-righteous if you cancel culture and callout culture all the virtual signaling on social media people are very self-righteous by nature. Wouldn't it be nice to be the people that are like you know what I gave up our game and not try to prove my goodness to anybody. I'm not better than anybody else I know that Jesus made it clear I just give you blessing people. It's especially a way to be more childlike and stop with the pressure in opposing that so many of us just do naturally. Yeah, you're right about that, but it's hard. Humility is a difficult thing for any center, any person who's ever lived. Humility is not a natural thing work were very prone to wanting to be proud of ourselves and justifying what we do and just by now we are in. This is the problem little bit about this if you would Brandt to flesh this out about the idea that we do not see ourselves the way we actually are in many many instances will what you're thinking. Cognitive bias you as a buyer like essentially for about a buyer. If I hear an argument and I like BELIEVE that it'll take a tremendous amount of evidence to supplant that the first thing I become aware of is often the thing gets entrenched. There's other biases work we say something is called attitude polarization affect the if I see a position out loud it very difficult for me to move off of it because I set it out as soon as I hear me take a position, while because you can see this happen on social media for how no one wins the social media argument. No one suddenly is like you know what the information given is convincing. Thank you. I have switched my position and never happened that people are taking public positions is very difficult for us to back off.

What were saying. So this becomes a problem for all of its own momentum and one other thing real quick about this, we can actually be addicted to being right, you can be addicted physically to anything to give you dopamine a hippo I but they have shown repeatedly that being proved right gives us a dopamine.

Have we like it so for scrolling we see filling it back up what we already thought we feel self-righteous rush and you can see how people why we do what we do in terms of putting ourselves in silos and whatnot.

We just love being right actually is something that we arty agree with slightly differently will applaud like where to go. Like that because it gives us a little bit of a rush and that's what were up against the terms of self-righteous. That's what you calling out. But you got a break yeah yeah well and something you say in the book is our belief in our goodness is our biggest self-delusion.

So you would put that at the top of the charts. Then, in terms of our wrong beliefs is believing that your basically good that that's the biggest problem of all isn't that going all the way back to the garden of the serpent the lie of the serpent. People who are not really believers. Cognitive psychologists are saying that is true about our biggest delusion were all deluded about certain classic to US people you a good driver you better than the like 85%. So yes, I'm better than average. It's the Lake Wobegon effect, which is how we perceive ourselves. But the biggest delusion of all is not driving, they say it's morality. If you ask people are you a good person, better person than average 90+ percent were all good people. And that's why it doesn't matter what we've done, we will rationalize it to make it good in our heads desperately want to be righteous and are on our own scales that we will rewrite reality in real time to make it okay amazingly good at that. Yeah, we are teasing part of the reason that our culture tends to do that is because we fallen into this postmodern thinking in which you create your own truth.

So therefore you can create the on truth about yourself. In other words, sure I did something lousy to you yesterday but my heart was in a good place. I hear people talking like that all the time and I was think to myself if your heart were in a good place you wouldn't of done that nasty thing you did yesterday. The heart and your actions are inextricably linked.

So what where we fall apart on that all people know I apologize all but just wasn't me when I yeah love that one looked like you very similar. That's not who I am no will.

I don't think the reason we do that is because were in a post-Christian society. I think that's gives us different rationalizations to offer but I think we do it because were human in its intensely human to say, well at least I'm not like that other person. I mean, Jesus called out for services. What we all do it so easy that people take this book in one of their political enemies with us. We've got this problem and Jesus is acting like it's a crisis like were addicted to our own self-righteousness. You keep calling out and we keep going.

Yeah you're right about the other people you know me.

Yeah, that's the tough thing is going. How can I be more aware of this but I can make better visions about so bias towards Michael all the time but you have a lighter load now about you being a good person willing to I get to that point I can to start trying to be a blessing. Other people will write and and it sometimes is hard to say that to Christians because we tend to think even though we might theologically reject it. We tend to think now that I'm a Christian. I am better because now I believe in Jesus and now I can obey him freely, but that does sometimes translate to self-righteousness and yet Paul is the one who talked in Romans chapter 7 about the things that I want to do.

I don't do and the things I don't want to do ideal.

That's part and parcel of the Christian life. You can continue to sin, even after you're a believer so getting a handle on that truth might be good for us as well.

Holy Jesus telling story after story to try to pop alone.

It's not about never going to good people against the bad people never doing that we use talking about the humble in the crowd, yes, yes it can be really good, proud people do not fare well in his presence.

Proud people are in for a big fall and not the humble.

He lifts up his shirt is actually yeah right about that will take a very brief pause ran handsome with us the truth about us is the name of his book and will come right back on tenant effort maybe no matter when this is the end of the story of a young mom who plan to end her pregnancy but chose life after visiting a pre-born center pre-born steps into the lives of hurting young women who were being told that a pre-born baby is not a life pre-born is the largest provider of free ultrasounds in the country and the direct answer to Planned Parenthood helping young moms choose life. I feel like it was meant for me to head this is something I need for reason you can be a part of choosing life with young hurting women across the country. Would you join with pre-born in Janet Mefford today to help save 400 babies by the end of the year for $140 you can sponsor five ultrasounds and help save five babies from abortion and now through match your gift of $140 will actually help save 10 babies instead of five.

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There's a banner to this is Janet Mefford for Bible league international. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. These words written early in John's Gospel remind us in this Advent season that God sent his son to be our Lord and Savior that many Christians in Asia, Africa, Latin America and the Middle East have never read those words or the Christmas story in Luke two why because they have no access to the Bible. So in this season of giving. Please join by the league in sending God's word to Bible list believers around the world for only five dollars, $50 for 10 Bibles $500 for 100 call 801 ESW ORD.

That's 800 yes word or there's a Bible league banner and Janet seen people changed to foreign yes somebody's somebody that's 800 YWO RD or there's a banner to cling Janet you're listening to Janet Mefford today. Welcome back. Thanks so much for joining us. Brent Hansen is here author and radio host the truth about us is the name of his new book the very good news about how very bad we are and you are making a great point right before we went to that break about the fact that God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble and that when were talking about how we view ourselves as good people.

It's bad enough when we do it, just on a human level, but as Christians. It's even worse when were self-righteous and you had talked about the parable that Jesus told of the publican and the Pharisee and that's a perfect example talk a little bit about battling self-righteousness because you get into some detail about that in your book and I think a lot of us, myself included, really need this advice because it's important for us to hear it. You we are like how Jesus is teaching us, calling out over and over what you don't and intervention on us and it just goes out through one ear and out the other if it's still all about me and my goodness, I think it's good to realize this is a human thing to Jonathan Heights at NYU, I called them a lot of the book is a self-described atheist and he said that humans are self-righteous machines with our default setting but there's something deeply wrong with us makes us assuage so why old how the people who study human growth. Jesus is right, I think becoming aware of this problem aware of all some of the biases I try to write about in the book I try to make it entertaining but just the way we humans behave all of us about how light we are, how we convince ourselves. I think it's really healthy to become aware of and I think the other thing is to even somebody's wall truly deeply wrong, like I have convictions about a very pro-life, for instance, everything so use different positions completely wrong. However, when it comes to thinking that I'm a better person than them. I think Jesus never let this get away with that. It's always wait a second. You realize what God has forgiven me from right right. It always returns to that it doesn't it's not relativism is not saying there is no such thing as right and wrong we shouldn't work for justice for for mercy.

That's were stuck, but it is about this idea that I'm a good person. He absolutely obliterates it last on that I think Jesus is the smartest teacher of all time. I think he knows us because he created us and if he's telling us live humbly, you're not a good person. He's doing it because he knows this is going to give us a better life. I think the more childlike will be more at ease. Once we get over this whole trip and we can laugh more and be more lighthearted.

It's actually a relief dock with the whole the whole trust God with get rid of that pretense. What I was also thinking about when you were saying that was Jesus words in Luke 1710, where he said so you also, when you've done everything you were told to do. You say we are unworthy servants. We only done our duty. So the reason I love that is because he's he's giving us a dose of cold water stain even if you obey every single command of the Lord is given to you. You obey God perfectly. Even if you were perfect in the human sense you're still an unworthy servant.

I just measure back to earth, doesn't it.

There's no room for pride.

If you're Christian, there just is no real no were lucky to be in the party. How do we turn price you get a hold of you hammering away and we still miss it and skip onto the next part like that off again a wonderful thing to humble ourselves.

One thing that the but I like that Heights that I was going to go from and why you we talked about how we are way less rational than we think we are true we humans we think we have these ideals in these ideas we follow are convictions and we act on them because will ration look no were emotional and intuitive and we use our rationality to justify whatever it was we wanted anyway that's what we use our smarts for in their study after study to mention this in the book where smart people are actually particular peril of being wrong because there especially adept at rationalizing well that's really serious that that's true though.

I mean, I can think of some examples of fatso mitigating self-righteousness that was a tricky thing for everybody. One of the things I think you mentioned this earlier is servant hood give us some ideas here on how servant hood can help us in the areas of being too self-righteous of the starter? Starter rather than thinking like a coworker strip soup kitchen all that's wonderful craving for enemies and blessing people who curse us is so huge because it forces us to confront ourselves in why we would need to do something like that. You can't casually do that and last names to add value to some like life.

So imagine somebody as your political enemies. Somebody just cannot stand all that's right you want to do you will will curses you want to subtract value from your life and you pray that God would help them be successful, that he would give them everything they need that they would they would flourish in life. That alone forces me out of myself. I would think my self-righteous position because I can't do that as a self-righteous person so I think I think you think Jesus is saying like you doing it for our own good. You know how we work and this is what's actually going to free us from self-righteousness. So serving people, absolutely because it forces us back in 20 will that is more in line with reality about who we are and that is a difficult thing to do now when your blessing your enemy. It's hard to be solid yourself, that's for sure. It is the hardest.

It is the hardest yet. I was thinking what you some of the ways that we can remind ourselves how bad we are not so we can wear hair certain and be ridiculous, but it sometimes is the case that when I read what the commandments are the 10 Commandments. For example, read you the 10 Commandments really kinda helps you get over this idea that your good person. I mean do you do things like that where you will just go to certain sections of Scripture and that will really help remind you yeah you really are a sinner you really still need a Savior and is in God wonderful for having sent Jesus for you and that you end and with the gospel, but you begin with the law the way you know that the Bible says the tricky thing about a lot of what you will believe anything there people out there who don't believe in it. I was Six of them that will help get the equipment by golly of a man. You know how we can do that. What I love you Jesus on the cross and if we didn't get the point all the way up to that many times you call this out on our supposed goodness, but the dude next to him has nothing to offer no spiritual resume whatsoever. And he's the one, humble himself and acknowledge that Jesus is who you humbled himself, and Jesus turns the hand is the only guy in the Bible who hears the words nobody else hears that I had nothing and so for me I love that God would finish that way to make it that obvious and I think it's such a relief that we actually can spiritually grow in maybe get morally better nonviolent scorecard that once we release this constant crying being in low-level guilt.

We got trying to prove that were the best person around were better than it's refreshing when you think about the thief on the cross. The thief on the cross didn't really need the law coming here. He was hanging on a cross for what he did. He knew he was in trouble, but he had that simple faith in Jesus that you really are the king of the Jews, remember me when you come into your kingdom.

There's something really simple about that and childlike, which is something else to talk about when Jesus says unless you are converted and become like children become like this child will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Can you speak to that.

Just briefly, because that's important to like not being in charge of the world or something beautiful about it. I tell a story about my daughter while driving or someplace, but she's nowhere to go when we made a bunch of stops and with big hassle and finally we would use the time finally she was like hey dad to the backseat buckled and her little feet where where we going this is actually 45 minute driving and I was pulled over by the police. Why ever told. I looked at her through. I like all were going to the rodeo you like horse all right. Thanks. I thought she didn't panic the whole time because she knew who was driving and I loved her she'd have to be worried all the time like I know God will let me into the party based on his goodness and kindness to be chafing all the time. I will grow up yet but that of him working through me.

Yes that's I will become more like him will be him working through me. Yeah, you're right. We gotta go by Frank Hansen the name of the book is the truth about us the very good news about how very badly. Our thanks so much for being here, and thank you for being with us on Janet Mefford today will see you next time

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