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Aaron Rhodes (Human Rights) Michelle Canfield (Daughters)

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November 25, 2021 4:30 am

Aaron Rhodes (Human Rights) Michelle Canfield (Daughters)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd

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November 25, 2021 4:30 am

As the international community moves away from a concept of human rights with natural law at the center, the entire idea of what constitutes a human right has been undermined. Aaron Rhodes, president of the Forum for Religious Freedom - Europe, joins me to talk about it as we discuss his book, "The Debasement of Human Rights." Plus: How can dads effectively communicate with their daughters? I'll talk it over with Michelle Watson Canfield, author of the book, "Let's Talk." That and more on Thursday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY.


This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by Hartford, Lebanon, God is using hard for Lebanon to bring practical assistance and the gospel to the stricken refugee families in Lebanon for a gift of $116 you can give a child in his family survival essentials for four months and the hope of Jesus Christ which lasts forever. Call now 888-247-5499 888-247-5499 there's a banner to, our confidence is in Christ alone, I saw you know standing of human rights that is rooted in the concept of natural rights and natural law. My next guest makes the case that the international community has moved away from this concept of human rights with freedom at the center. But why did they do it and what difference does it make to talk today with Dr. Aaron Rhodes, a human rights and civil society activist as well as an advocate for the reform of international human rights law and institutions. He was Executive Director of the International Helsinki Federation for human rights and is president of the forum for religious freedom in Europe today will be talking to him about his book called the debasement of human rights how politics sabotage the ideal of freedom here. It's wonderful to have you here. Thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you for having me absolutely. So this is a term we've heard a lot, human rights, it's talked about. It's listed in documents we hear about it from the UN. What would you say is the correct definition of it as traditionally understood, as opposed to what it has evolved into. I think it any definition, any any corrective human rights to refer to natural rights, which are inherent rights necessary for our fulfillment of as individuals and natural rights as it is historical permit. Some permanent comes to us from antiquity and natural rights are rights that allow us to be free. First of all, and the problem with human rights today is that you rarely really hear the word freedom and you more rarely hear the word, not full rights of both of these things that have kind of faded away from human rights and human rights has gradually become accountable regulatory scheme for creating conditions for welfare yes absolutely yeah now when were talking about human rights being rooted in natural law, and that this concept of freedom is so central to the understanding of human rights and what is that based in other words, what common understanding informs that as you go back through history you look at people like Hobbes and Locke and even back as you mentioned to antiquity. What was it that those who understood it properly emphasized so strongly in terms of the individual as opposed to the collective.

If you want to say it that way. What was it about natural law that really made us free will, of course, it did make his previous respect for not full rights that make food free. Yes, correctly what you're asking me some very tough questions here because the Stoics in an ancient ancient Rome made it very deep distinction between natural law and positive law.

And I think that this is another core idea, and human rights food with a good fit has kind of faded away.

Natural law is what constrains the laws that govern the governments and legislatures make and in and that's why our Constitution says you know, Congress shall make no law. Yes, etc. good bit infringes on basic freedoms and and and the V. The idea that the in the individual liberty and individual dignity is sacral chakra say this is one of the foundations of natural law's are right so so that's interesting. And yet now we have a UN for example, as you've mentioned the Universal declaration of human rights, which came out in 1948 brought human rights into the realm of international law.

So you had this changed what was the change in why was there a change in the understanding well. The change was that in in attempting to universalize the idea of human rights in and in and in an international law. They took the bait view sort of assume Dakota multiple multiculturalism when they do find human rights so you become BBB definition of human rights that you find in the in the Universal declaration of human rights really resulted from a survey which the UN human rights commission set out to spiritual leaders and political leaders from all over the world asking them what what do you think is human rights and they got this big list and then they said well here we are here we have human rights so that it did, rather than applying reason and and and and respecting the philosophical tradition of of of natural rights, be they took human rights to mean what people thought it was in some of the people who responded to this survey world work.

You know what that human rights came from governments or in human rights were basically welfare services provided by governments and by the state as opposed by as opposed to freedoms that we have because were human so interesting because you don't determine these things by a survey that seems like a very inadequate way of determining what human rights actually are, as opposed to people's opinions on what they are. That's right that I think you mean you have to remember that in 1948.

This was at the end of World War II and the world was faced with some very serious geopolitical challenges one of which was to sort of integrate the totalitarian states within the moral within them within a moral community in the way they did this was to accept their definition of human rights as being economic and social rights. So would serve this this the kind of capitulation philosophical capitulation serve the geopolitical function life and it was also the result of progressive parties rights of the amine that are our country doesn't have a reputation for upholding economic and social rights in general. There's a great ambivalence about his rights in America but at the same time. United States was was very instrumental in setting up this universal declaration of human rights, including economic and social rights, mainly because of the efforts of the Roosevelt administration oh rights because he wanted to expand basic liberties into what you just mentioned social and economic rights. So was that really a turning points under FDR.

While it was it was it was it was good it was when leave the international human rights system was established and the Roosevelt administration fit into this with their concept of economic and social rights.

Winning that it would be Roosevelt want to create an economic Bill of Rights to go along with the Bill of Rights. It exists now to the Constitution rights but why did why did he want to expand it that way.

What was the motivation.

Well, that was his belief.

He heaved that he he he thought that you know he want to me.

He wants to make welfare benefits a constitutional right to sort of put them into the foundation of our political system. While it all, and you even said that the ambivalence about natural rights went back to what was at the early 19 century so you can even take it back further than that. While short and end.

You know our history hasn't been so great in this respect because not all though natural rights were the motivation for the Revolutionary war.

They were the natural rights formed be the concept which gave the be the colonists leave them the moral courage to confront the DeVito demote the strongest army in the world and to and to risk everything for their freedom but just a few decades later. You can find Americans just forgetting all about natural rights because they they had freedom. So when people have freedom they they tend to forget the moral basis of freedom and that you can see it today.

Of course, of course, you can write and in this is what you're talking about in your book that ultimately given the other things that you already mention politics ends up getting involved in sabotaging this ideal of freedom and that leads to all sorts of things that we've seen developed on the global scale, that really do end up debasing human rights, and so that this is so interesting to me and I want to get into more about it when we come back Aaron Rhodes with us.

The debasement of human rights is the name of his book and will be back on Janet for today after the ministry of pre-born is there for moms in crisis who are choosing between life and death for their pre-born babies meet Sophie at 22 weeks pregnant. Sophie was pressured by her mother and boyfriend to terminate her pregnancy. After meeting with a pre-born counselor. She found the love and support she needed so just I was looking at the pictures over and over and over again. That's when I decided I was going to turn out. Sophie chose life and now she's awaiting the birth of her baby girl every day.

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Believers are teaching English to young people using a bodily program that uses God's word is the source of the reading assignments, and many are coming to embrace Jesus as Lord and Savior and sharing him with their families is joined by Milligan sending God's word to Bible less believers in China and around the world for only five dollars per Bible $50 sends 10 $500 sends 100 call now 800 yes word 800 YDS WORD were there some finally banner to click Janet met Thank you for your you're listening to Joe Mefford back on Janet Mefford today so good to have him here and Dr. Aaron Rhodes is joining us so good to have him here as well. He is the president of the form for religious freedom Europe and was executive director of the International Helsinki Federation for human rights is book is called the debasement of human rights politics sabotage the ideal of freedom. We were talking a little bit before we went to the break Aaron about the fact that we have understood natural rights. It's the basis really for our understanding of our form of government in our Republic and yet we see the UN for example, under its universal declaration of human rights, bringing in these concepts of social and economic rights. Now what happened from there. When that understanding began to come into play.

What was the outlook that they were hoping for. Another words, what would that look like what are economic rights and social rights in the context of human rights. On a practical scale. What are they wanting to happen or wanting to support happening by saying it that way. Well, I think you were close some very devious people but also some very well-meaning people and you know you have to remember that the communist governments feared human rights more than anything else they saw human rights is the idea that had the power to displace them and an end and showed it there. That should be no illuminated hypocrisy of their of their their government right but the progressive parties in Europe and in America were very strong after World War II, and these parties embrace the notion that to be free and to have dignity, you have to have all kinds of entitlements economic entitlements. Eventually they take the idea freedom will I see freedom is freedom from core and this is basically the classical notion of freedom, but they saw freedom as being, you know, having having having a having a good life is enabled in labeling you to have leave your to have government benefits to have security of different kinds provided by needle welfare entitlements now and and so the basis would be the universal declaration of human rights tries to bring these two things together. It tries to bring the two ideas of freedom together, the freedom from coercion.

On one hand, and the freedom that is thought to result from welfare entitlements and of course the letter idea has some serious flaws and you can see that the date due to the Chinese government has is very much increased the standard of living in China, but they have increased the freedom of its citizens. In fact, freedom is on the decline in China. That's just a good that you one example.

Yeah that is so so you welfare entitlements don't really Mrs. don't really don't really necessarily make people free well and it gets away from what you emphasize that this whole idea natural rights is the freedom of the individual as opposed to what these guys are emphasizing which is really involving the power of the state. Well, when the power of the state increases. Does that not necessarily decrease the freedom of the individual. Because of the all of the economic and social rights are collective rights. That's right.

Where is the very concept of human rights is the concept of individual rights that's allowed to sell now and now we hear about other things being added to this category of human rights, and we we've had like LGBT activists. We need to have this you have a human right here in him and how broadly is this term going to be expanded. I mean, is there an end in sight, or do you think they've sort of stopped economic and social.

This is enough or do you see it expanding beyond the current definition. While it is expanding. You know, because it's a playground for political activists who want to label their objectives.

This is a human right, and they do this because, in the hope that it will become a matter of law, rather than just you know consider considered a political goal. You mentioned the LGBT activists. I mean, I know I'm a I'm a believer in and leave the human rights of everybody sure and the question is, is there a special category of human rights that we could we could call LGBT rights. From this I don't think so right because if you do these are simply human rights yet to do the equality before the law especially yeah exactly right but but if it becomes a matter of of progressive agenda and in the understanding, philosophically, that they have about the role of government and what you should have a right to whatever kind of utopianism is that not also part of what fuel said that we want to create in some sense utopian sort of society because that is what would make people flourish. The most if we had utopia on earth to some extent. Well, you're right. You're right it is utopian and what's really depressing about human rights today is that it's it's an idea which is fueling a move towards global governance toward centralized regulation of very many aspects of human economic life and social life and human rights is becoming something that is having people in rather than liberating them.

It's interesting, it wasn't too long ago I think was a couple of months ago where you had what you did have this history of the human rights Council voting to create that special rapporteur on the situation of human rights in a ran for example, and then you just had a few months ago. This Iranian government official under sanctions by the US and European Union addressing the UN human rights Council and people said what is going on here. I mean, are you no longer able to completely distinguish between people who oppress human rights versus standing for them like you say is I mean there's been lots of incidents. It seems on the global level of inconsistencies in hypocrisy, shall we say about who you prop up and who you ignore and who you sanction. I mean, has that sort of become an ongoing issue in the human rights community that we don't always get it right and sometimes were not clamping down on people who truly oppress others see the thing is, the concept of human rights is so contradictory. It is very difficult to tell who's oppressing others, according to human rights. I mean, when North Korea is the most oppressive country in the world. It is, but when human when North Korea was examined for its human rights record by the UN human rights Council.

They bragged about their economic and social rights. They talk about their health care system in their educational system and they were praised by numerous countries for upholding human rights in the you know that the picture that you get is that while it's kind of a mixed picture.

Yes, they have some problems they have.They burn people alive if they're not be if we don't agree with them politically, and they smother babies who were that you know who or who were born to two non-Korean fathers but but at the same time look they have look at look at their welfare policies and so this this expanded and ended debased concept of human rights results in a code of moral equivalency. It does now you starving your population, but at least to provide healthcare.

I mean come on that's is to have such an incredible lack of moral clarity and that that's the thing is when everything is modeled like that you've lost the whole principal to begin with, of what human rights is supposed to be about.

That's my point. And I think the I think that what I tried to illustrate in my book.

I mean a lot of people know that you can do is there some questions about the validity of economic and social social rights, but I tried to illustrate the long-term consequences of this, the presence of these rights in the international system, and you have you have the proliferation of human rights first of all there there just more and more treaties, more and more economic and social rights treaties and the result is a kind of dilution of human rights so that the problems like torture and freedom of expression and freedom of association those basic freedoms are now relegated to to her brother to a small corner of the human rights discourse will this impact religious freedom in that way religious freedom is, is probably one of the most important freedoms that we can have. But of course the UN tells us that all these human rights are the same or equal so that the you know religious freedom is no more no more important you know that you all give you a good example of this problem in the European Union they call the right to free employment counseling human right now if you if you believe this dogma that all human rights are equal to that mean that that they would do the right to free employment while they call it free of course not. But do the right to government paid or publicly funded employment counseling is is just as important as there is freedom of religion, or it doesn't mean that freedom of religion is no more important then to admit that having access to state-funded employment counseling and any addenda and I think you know we need to keep freedom of religion very high on the on on the ideals and in the that we cherish and then we we can't allow a freedom of religion and other fundamental freedoms to lose their sacrosanct quality and tend to take on the character of just another kind of political decision and we have to keep in mind these very lofty ideas about inherent rights and natural rights in order to protect our protecting freedom from being encroached upon by governments around the world which are increasingly fetishistic. You know, I just want to sale one of the thing. When this expansion of this concept of human rights to started the actual enjoyment of human rights began to deteriorate and I think that's most of the institutions that analyze the be the trends with respect to freedom and human rights. Understand that human rights has been deteriorating since the 1990s and then I think that there is a clear causal relationship between these two things. No doubt about it. While great thoughts.

The debasement of human rights.

Dr. Aaron Rhodes with Aaron so good to have you here. Thank you very very much for being with us.

Okay. Thank you, thank you very much and will be back this archived broadcast of Janet met today is brought to you by Hartford, using hard for Lebanon to bring practical assistance and the gospel to the stricken refugee families in Lebanon for a gift of $116 you can give a child in his family survival essentials for four months and the hope of Jesus Christ which lasts forever. Call now 888-247-5499 888-247-5499 there's a banner to for today. Here's your host Joe Mefford but I have to admit, one of the songs that always makes me tear up as Cinderella by Steven Curtis Chapman. I'm sure you know this song.

It's about watching his little girl grow up and you might recall the chorus. I will dance with Cinderella.

I don't want to miss even one song is all too soon the clock will strike midnight and she'll be gone seem to cry already. There's an incredible bond between father and daughter, but sometimes that relationship need some help along the way, how can dance and daughters connect on a deeper level to heartfelt conversation. Well, my next guest knows how she is Dr. Michelle Watson Canfield licensed professional counselor, radio host and founder of the otter project which is a group formed for dads with daughters from 13 to 30, and today will be talking about her book called let's talk conversation starters for dads and daughters, Michelle, thanks for joining us it's great to have you here honored to join you today but glad you're with us to say I really do get a little teary-eyed anytime I talk about dads and daughters. I'm very much a daddy's girl. My cell and I've got a number daughters and they love their daddy, what is this relationship do you think so important. All my many reasons great. I'm sure you could weigh on well to start with the fact that most of us have the same last name as our dad. There's something about our identity who we are. Our name ties to our dad then just look at the research that shows over and over. Repeatedly, it's confirmed in the research that every area of the daughters life is better when she feels connected there.

The key feeling of connection to your dad you want to just list a few of those do it I love it okay what research there like just give me the fact that they are still daughters do better in school to get better grades are more likely to finish high school and attend college Greater self-esteem left suicide attempt body satisfaction and help your weight. I'm not even done this with all shot because of the bond.

A connection between the Donner and between the daughter and her dad, Caleb, Akiko, it she will delay having premarital sex, which means decreases in teen pregnancy, Janet, who would've ever thought that a connection between a dad and daughter would work at the contraceptive, on daughters again continuing this with their more likely to find steady employment and hold it okay that's significant right because there's more confidence, usually in a daughter who has a connection to her dad shall stand out among her peers. Again, more.

Another significant thing is more like I said earlier, self-esteem and less depression, lower rates of substance use and one moral mention among the many is she will have more prosocial empathy. There's something in the heart space. Other daughter when she feels connected to her dad that she is out of the overflow that bond.

So, how's that for proof that his relationship matter is a great list and I know we've had a lot more conversations in the last several years at least doing a talk show on the importance of fathers to the home. In general, and in the importance of fathers for sons, but this was very intriguing because part of the reason is something that you touch on in the book there is a difference a substantive difference between male and female. So when you have that opposite sex relationship and II think every daughter could talk about this. There is a way sometimes that you will relate to your mom when you're talking to your mom. That doesn't work quite the same way as when you're talking to your dad because of the propensity that men have for wanting to fix problems when the women want to just talk.

Can you talk about that a little bit because that is a really important thing that you discuss in the book. Might you have been so you heard my name on there can't Canfield fight.

Mary Janet congratulations Excel wow creepy God and Providence led me to marry his name is Dr. Ken Canfield and he started the National Center for fathering and his wife went to heaven last year and surprised both about with this partnership, what can just tell me. He said Michelle I think you could call this book, let's talk and listen because he said with this listening piece that you address it as important if not more important than the talking part and I said exactly that's exactly right. Because God when you bring your mail energy, your male presence that it daughter needs. She needs that kind of interaction from you in order to know how to relate to men in the world. Whether it's a future husband. That kind of thing into dad when you keep your daughter to gift of listening to her.

You actually seem her because you're giving her the message that she's worth listening to what I tell dads a lot, you know, in the last decade I've been coaching at the daughters I say you don't tell your daughter what you think of her or not you think that what you think of her and build her up steam her every other voice will outrank yours and she needs to know where you're at with her at a heart level and I think that's one of the things going back to the last verse of the whole Old Testament forgot if the hearts of fathers don't turn. Isn't that interesting. The questions what is a heart term look like, not just the head turn because as daughters and I'm sure you can speak to this probably is as well, as I can at the daughter yourself right yes one whose birth daughters you want something happen in a daughter. When her dad shows up its eyes light up when were little.

Did you see me is beautiful like you said in the Cinderella function even for adult women still want to be that sparkle in our dad's eyes and so dad you matter and no matter the method you've gotten from the media or television or in your home or your family of origin, Janet.Janet are standing here at Al I think you matter your presence is significant to the development of a healthy daughter, and we just want to wish you and encourage you and applied you today not to give up pursuing her heart no matter the method she ever give you that you don't matter, that's right exactly right. And yet you do run into challenges.

I know when you're trying to bring dads and daughters together because this is a fallen world and there are relationships between dads and daughters that don't work so well where you begin trying to bring dads and daughters together when you are working with them that come up in my account, not actually where I'm looking at this dad I'm sitting with a mom and a dad with their 17-year-old and I said as I hear this she's opening up to mom a lot about boys about body image about weight, but I think dad it's time for you to kick it up a notch, but she's pushing me away. I said welcome to that stage of right. This is common for 17-year-old and I really encouraged him as I'm encouraging dads were listening to let your daughter push back on you because those not full 50 well that she uses in relationship you are going to help her outside your home to push back against influences in the world right just up bad thing, but sometimes I've observed that dad tell me what you think it is Janet with sometimes rather do nothing and do it wrong.

Oh yes yes yes. So they go okay I'm making it worse.

And men are smart enough to take you back off long ago when okay this isn't an either/or got to be both. Dad enter into your daughter's life and sometimes just give her the grace that this is hormonal. You know her brain and body are changing at this at these different stages of life and chill growth through it and how do you maintain the relationship in the middle of that, rather than just being kind of absent for those may be wrapped here and I wrote this book Janet with 60 scripts that God can use with words right in front of them to open up conversations with their daughters on all kinds of topics find lighthearted once all the way to heavy ones about suicide and depression and body image and sexual harassment and faint in same-sex attraction. Whatever you know if you have the script in front of you. You can't do it wrong if your daughter hates the question, just blame me and I'll be your fault. My fault. He gave it to me. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But you know this is what when you talk about the fact that men would rather do nothing then do something wrong. That in and of itself is a male perspective, which is why that gap I think needs to be bridged just as you're doing in this book today explained to dad's what's going through your daughter's mind because we definitely do not think in that way when it goes back to the issue of dad I don't necessarily want a solution. Sometimes I just want your sympathy. Sometimes I just want your ear and I need to be able to interact and have you not zone out.

If you care about it. I want to get into more on this. We do need to pause for a very quick break were to do it when we come back to Dr. Michelle Watson Canfield, author of let's talk conversation starters for dads and daughters stay with us will be back on Janet for today. For those of us who live in America. It may be hard to believe but there are people in the country of Lebanon who have never heard about Jesus.

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Let me tell you about one of those refugees and he thought who is 10 years old she lost her mother when she was just a toddler, but hard for Lebanon met her as they were delivering food portions to her family with no opportunity for formal education and Eva wakes her father up early in the morning when heart for Lebanon's educational fund truck is scheduled to arrive recently during a skit about God's love honey for placed her faith and trust in Jesus for salvation. And now, because her father is illiterate. She's reading the Bible to him each evening. This family, although currently living in very tough times is slowly starting to realize the hope that only comes through Jesus Christ and the hope that only reaches them because people like you give to get the gospel to them. Your single investment of just $116 help someone like Hanif and her family with supplies needed to survive the next four months and the hope of the gospel which lasts forever.

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That's 888-247-5499 or there's a heart for Lebanon banner to click and Janet met These families need immediate help. More than that. They need Jesus and they need you. Please call now the number is 888-247-5499 that number again 888-247-5499. Thank you and God bless you for your generosity. You're listening to Janet Mefford today though. Welcome back great to have you with us in great-aunt with us. Dr. Michelle Watson Canfield so good to have her here.

She's a licensed professional counselor, radio host and founder of the outer project also author of the book were discussing called let's talk conversation starters for dads and daughters such an important relationship. The dads have at their daughters.

It's not the same as it is with moms and daughters and this is why it's so important for that bond to be strengthened and Michelle. We were talking before we went to the break about. Sometimes dads would rather do nothing, then do it wrong and yet you come up with the scripts that dads can use for having these conversations with their daughters. What are some of the things that you advise dads to try to do.

You mentioned having a teenage daughter. For example, and that can be a really strange time of life and navigate. But how would you advise. Let's take that as an example, how would you advise a dad to try to bond with his teenage daughter who may be a little crabby at times but still needs that interaction will line current dad back off right get a bigger room if you will cut about a larger picture to say she won't be here forever.

Just remember that this is the stage of life. Just like when she went through what some people call the terrible two site you know any gymnast agent can last forever. And sometimes when it's really hard. Dads forget that another thing that can help dad ask another woman in your life about your daughter what you and a wife and a coworker asked another woman he's been there. What you think she needs and actually what I thought to do in the book, like I'm pulling up a chair next to dad saying, you know, this stuff is normal. She's gonna grow out of it or through it. How can you maintain a relationship in the middle of it and what we say is that when we as women open our mouths are heart open. Yes, like when women stop talking. Their hearts closed right through my daughter's heart is open, her heart is open. It really comes back. How do you get her talking whole way that you could with whatever rate your daughter is get the conversation started her on a 0 to 10, 10 being the most zero being the least. What number would you get to see how close you think we are, and then follow that up with what could I do to be a better dad to you, like your daughter tell you what she needs, because all you know is you know all your daughters are the same they don't come with the playbook and I was down to help you write one, and so is you have a Canon hand during these goddaughter dates.

I encourage dad to take each daughter out at least once a month. Find your special place you love to go even in the middle quarantining social distancing. You can find a restaurant or coffee place that you love to go to you to get to know her better and write down her answers will become like a time capsule that you'll have for years to come as you get to hear her tell you what she's thinking.

What you meeting what she's feeling like she's afraid of, and you can partner with her and helping her become more confident in who she is. That's really good. What do you find a common ground with a lot of daughters on what they do want from their dance, especially ones who might feel estranged is there kind of a commonality there.

The where they give the same answer.

What I really want for my dad is ask. Well, great question because I would state of common thing I hear is that daughter say my dad doesn't really listen to me. He just lectures me or he's always disappointed in me daughters hate that they're going to back off. That's a lot of times where the estrangement has come.

Even this week I've heard about dad's anger. More than once that I had a daughter in the fourth accounting session whose 15 said I I'm so tired of him getting mad at me all the time and so then she doesn't want you in a divorce situation spend as much time with dad. I felt I told that there's a practical way to deal with your anger you brought the anger is that you not want kids are little you give them a timeout based on how they are three years old to get a three minute timeout something dad if you're 50 years old. Give yourself a 50 minute timeout when you know you're getting needed go around the block card and tell her I'm going to clear my head on the back and then how the conversation that you can calm down. What we call that midbrain where you have your emotional centers and you get heated and then that frontal lobe were you thinking have good judgment and reasoning. It goes off-line for all of us. So dad take care of your own anger first come back so that you can reach her daughter and connected a heart level because your daughter wants that from you for you to be proud of her for you to delight in her.

So the ways you can do that is you gotta take care yourself first because your daughter needs that for me that's really good really good advice what the flipside, when you're counseling daughters on how to have a better relationship with her dad's what sort of things do daughters need to understand about men, and particularly about their father's because this is obviously a two-way street. On some level, absolutely. So it helping her daughter understand that your dad's reaction at an eight, nine or 10 on a 0 to 10 scale his old stop. I would say it's not about you so had a bad day at work and come home with a short fuse. You internalize his reaction as being something wrong with you but the truth is your dad right he's human to he's got his own, and if you can remember that you would gauge that that was a big nine.

You know what that wasn't about you. So give your dad space. I don't know if you would say this with your dad cannot but what you think there's any truth to that idea of a daughter internalizing her dad you love her for sure for sure and I had to still do have such a great relationship with my dad.

He really is a great great man and I've not had any problems or estrangement or anything from him my entire life. But oh yeah for sure and and also I think when you have different personalities when you have a dad.

My dad is an engineer. So he's very, very disoriented and solution oriented and all the rest, and I tend not to be so much that way. There is a lot I yeah yeah so there has to be that kind of understanding but you're right you're right, there may be something else going on with dad because he's acting this way rather than that way. And yet, especially as you get older as a daughter you do see that more I think a lot of this to his maturity on the daughter's part.

You see a lot more when you get older than you probably did what you're 17 about your father would also then maybe offensive.

What I meant to say next from them listening, but I have the experience that my family with my dad who still living as well, but sometimes it harder for men to come and say they're sorry, will you forgive me.

Yes, and again I know it's hard for women to listening. If you hurt your daughters heart and you really know you did something you regret go, make amends, because humility goes a long way to read building a bridge.

If there's estrangement and I'm all about getting dad's really practical ways to engage their daughters heart with your adapt listening class estrangement with your daughter because I would say that probably 75% of the emails I get from men across the country are about the fact that there are strange from their daughters and don't know what to do. So I think dad if your daughter doesn't feel safe being with you because you've made hurt her in a way that you think is legitimate, but she's you know really wanting distance from you to have it go get a journal and began to use it where you writing it to her in hope and belief that God will one day restore that relationship and you put the date you put what you're praying for her. What you dream for her what you wish you could tell her what you remember back when it was better between you and then when the relationship is restored and you imagine Janet, the power of God giving his daughter. That book is saying see you were never far from my heart. No matter what it might look like in love goes the way I mean that such an understatement. But even if you are having some difficulties with the relationship, your dad loves you, you love your dad.

I mean, it seems like if you will focus on that is your overarching theme. If both parties want to come together.

That's half the battle right there absolutely, absolutely. Well said yeah and I would imagine that mom could play a role right in trying to facilitate if there really is and estrangement have you found that to be something you've dealt with in your counseling. Absolutely. In fact, women have more power. We may sometimes realize right to either make comments against God, especially in the divorce than the daughter ends up right wanting or being forced to choose where her loyalty lie so women even if you're in a situation where dad really hasn't stepped up.

Watch your own mouth right because again, your daughter will internalize her dad's view of her slips you spending time or is moved on. Work is really busy. Watch what you say. That might be negative about her dad because right.

She has his DNA for part of her identity is still tied to her dad whether or not he's in the picture but I think another thing is when this book free her sons for your grandsons depend on your age, we women can help facilitate strengthening the data daughter bond.

So, get the book for them. Goodwill is called let's talk conversation starters for dance and daughters are really helpful resource from Dr. Michelle Watson Canfield but it was great to have you think you very very much for being here help with joy to be with you today Janet, thank you so much you bet God bless you and thanks again for all your wisdom and thank you for joining us in Janet my for today will see you next time

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