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Josh Moody (God's Word) Josh Mulvihill (Grandparenting)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd
The Truth Network Radio
November 22, 2021 4:30 am

Josh Moody (God's Word) Josh Mulvihill (Grandparenting)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd

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November 22, 2021 4:30 am

How do we answer some of the most pressing questions about God's Word? Josh Moody, senior pastor of College Church in Wheaton, Ill., joins me to discuss his book, "How the Bible Can Change Your Life." Plus: How can grandparents play a role in their grandchildren's spiritual growth? Dr. Josh Mulvihill stops by to discuss his book, "Discipling Your Grandchildren." That and more on Monday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by Hartford, Lebanon, God is using hard for Lebanon to bring practical assistance and the gospel to the stricken refugee families in Lebanon for a gift of $116 you can give a child in his family survival essentials for four months and the hope of Jesus Christ which lasts forever.

Call now 888-247-5499 888-247-5499 there's a banner to, our confidence is in Christ alone, I saw you know an active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of solons. Of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

And yet we know from the statistics that though most all Americans own a Bible, probably many Bibles, many of us don't read the Bible and this is true even inside the church. Shamefully, yet this is the very book that will change your life as you read it and study it and believe the message of salvation through Jesus Christ were to talk today with Josh Moody.

He is senior pastor of College Church in Wheaton, Illinois, and he is offering some guidance on this issue in his new book, it is called how the Bible can change your life. Great title and great to have your Josh, how are you 03 review and having me on this program I think it's important and I'm glad to have you contribute to return to get this message out over all the Bible but also the cool of the Bible is real spiritual growth for everyone. Amen. That's excellent. One of the things you say in the book is that for Christians who believe the Bible there is a gap that exists sometimes between profession and practice. What is this concern you as a pastor will be picking up slowly. You know I told you people wouldn't you assume that someone is having a quote on mold a devotional life and you get to know people you realize actually whether business, sometimes people feel they have the ability to build to interpret accurately. But those are the lack of a sense of the drama of reading the Bible from Micah but sure you have to do like your morning exercise root rather than I get to this extraordinary opportunity. I get to hear from the creator.

The whole universe looking for to doing that.

That's an encounter and experiences, will you not to simply avoid information. Click download price. I think you're completely right about about what what is responsible for the indifference, because clearly we understand what God has done through Jesus and we should be excited about that. So are we just lazy or what what you think accounts for that sort of thing really screwed questionable really number different things for me. Sometimes spiritual maturity is suppose, sometimes with actual businesses. The lives out of out of whack. You know, sometimes it's good with them also work. Sometimes it screws with the moms of the industrial entertainment complex.

You know Netflix you, sir. I think sometimes it comes down to churches. I do think the churches have it in the desire to reach people to keep Christians coming. They tended to dumb down the what comes out of the pool put send it when not modeling the thrill of Scripture is unlikely, but the people in the pew go to pick up the same the same excitement.

That's right, I think you're completely right about that. So when you talk about the Bible change in your life that's an interesting way to put out the message because there are a lot of ways we could advertise the Bible as it were. You said you have read the Bible because the Bible is true. Read the Bible because the Bible will tell you about Jesus when you're at the size and the fact that the Bible can change your life. Why approach it that way. What is the intense, they are in sin, telling people the Bible really can change your life.

What the fool puts you. You quoted from neighbors living active and so's not simply information that there's an encounter with the living God.

And you know that so I think both the hot once you begin to realize that you begin to long to spend time with go through his would you do so your answering the 10 most common questions about the Bible and certainly people to have questions about the Bible and you tackle this one is the Bible true.

This is kind of the foundation here because there a lot of new atheists who like to convince people on the Internet that in fact the Bible is just a book of Matson.

It's a desperate crotch for people who are that intelligence how to approach this.

How do you even set up the framework to discuss the truth of Scripture with somebody who maybe never has been inside a church become friendly, should neither be antagonistic. Some of the bin for the church.

Presumably, most people would realize that Christians have the single Bible, we believe it is true and so you say will look but since that's considerate and you know the starting point is that something like Luke's gospel is thought by many scholars to be historically reliable and need you begin that's okay will release gospel and find out what it says about Jesus you meet Jesus. He thought he took a compelling character he makes a claim upon your life and you have to decide whether you're going to accept him as he climbs the billion.

Do you become a disciple of Christ and you then you begin to discover how he treats Scripture and from that from that place you talk about how Jesus treats Scripture than I disciple new transcription slink away from that place you them begin to think you know all the sum of the more classic troublesome questions that people do sometimes have about the Bible. You take it from point of view of a disciple of Christ who knows Jesus and that through some starting point. While it is an and to establish the credibility of the Bible you talk a lot about establishing historical facts in the record and in the historicity really of the Bible.

What will be a good way to defend the historicity of the Bible, especially with someone who says the Bible is full of contradictions. Maybe it's a book of maths.

Where would you even begin to do that sort of apologetic work on the historicity of Scripture. Sometimes it's so so you know the Bible who contradictions my first response would be to unite me one and you know sometimes people have a few things in mind but but quite often they do and it is really if they haven't got anything in particular you know what okay well you may be right, but this look at it together. And so then you get into Bible study looking at the New Testament.

I like how JB Phillips long ago. He talked about having the ring of truth and so many guns into the Bible to start reading strictly something like Luke's gospel. He realizes it has this historical reliability to encounter Jesus and then you begin to look at it through the lens of how Jesus approached Scripture that I think is the best approach and selected for the project. I am also really appreciate what some apologists have pointed out, and that is the Bible there's been no other book on earth that his bin is scrutinized right. I mean, when we have so many attacks Bible over so many years in the Bible is still standing and we still come up with archaeological digs that are finding ancient cities and ancient things mentioned in the Bible to me that that's a really strong point as well. The Bible is held up all this time grade-point America friend to the Cambridge scholar one of the points he makes is we have more reason to accept the historical reliability of the Bible than ever before in human history. Just because of the discovery of the manuscripts so much. Corbett evidence for what we have in total we believe in the Bible more than ever before and yellows be a lot of discussion about it because it is important, and we can't sweep under the carpet. The critics even the lots are Russia's critics.

So once the really get into that.

You kind of one of the most famous books illnesses by 1/5 Bruce all New Testament documents reliable results of someone's going to soluble technical level than the remote and then keep on ramping up. You can read Colson's book on the two young bonobos, but I think that the place the stall for someone who's just getting into looking to with the Scriptures. Reliable was maybe Sica you not to talk about a couple coffee to go. You know, actually, Luke's gospel is a fool to be Luke's a good historian here.

He worked with in the historical basis of of of all of his time ancient historian but is he was a good historian you could so that's read Luke's gospel like that. Let's read acts like that and then we encounter Christ and then we begin to fall across the week we take his approach to Scripture. And when you do that, I think it really does change a lot while it really doesn't some of the other questions that you address are ones that I want to dive into when we come back from this break. Pastor Josh Moody F college churches with us is about how the Bible can change your life will come back to the conversation right after this you listening to Janet maybe came to him no matter what. This is the end of the story of a young mom who plan to end her pregnancy but chose life after visiting a pre-born center pre-born steps into the lives of hurting young women who were being told that a pre-born baby is not a life pre-born is the largest provider of free ultrasounds in the country and the direct answer to Planned Parenthood helping young moms choose life. I feel like it was made for me to head this is something I will reason you can be a part of choosing life with young hurting women across the country. Would you join with pre-born and Janet met for today to help save 400 babies by the end of 2019 for $140 you can sponsor five ultrasounds and help say five babies from abortion and now through match your gift of $140 will actually help save 10 babies instead of five. All gifts are tax-deductible to donate, dial 855402, baby. That's 855402222985540222294. There's a banner to this is Janet met for her to provide a link international authorities in China are making life difficult for Christians. It's against the law to share Christ with children under age 18. We cannot preach to children under 18 practice and law. When parents bring to the church you can and then you can send gospel to them great joy.

Believers are teaching English to young people using the Bible league program that uses God's word is the source of the reading assignments, and many are coming to embrace Jesus as Lord and Savior and sharing him with their families joined Bible he can sending God's word to Bible less believers in China and around the world for only five dollars per Bible $50 since 10 $500 sends 100 call now 800 yes word 800 YDS WO RD were there some finally banner to click Janet met Thank you for your support, your listening today we're back on. Janet met for today. Thank you for tuning in great happy with us also joining us is Josh Moody who is senior pastor of College Church in Wheaton, Illinois and author of the book how the Bible can change your life is responding to some of the most common questions about the Bible.


In particular, we were discussing before the break, whether or not the Bible is true and and some great information that you were able to give to us Josh on how to handle that question. What's the relevance of the Bible. I know relevance has become kind of an overused buzzword in the last couple of decades. I get tired sometimes that word it's a good word.

It's just we use a lot. We address that typically without turning relevance into how can I make Christianity cool enough to suit me. I mean, obviously that's not what were talking about, but how to approach this particular question. You write a really good way to approach you, Vicki, about I think in some ways, the relevant question needs to be turned on it so. In other words, behind the relevant question is negative way would be what does this have to do with me and close the whole revolution of the trust of following Jesus wonderful reading the Bible is to discover that she wanted somebody to put God first and to send my life on him and so the real question of life is not how to go relevant to me the real questions, relevant to him will be discovers he has for us.

He loves us so you have to go through this whole paradigm shift become a Christian and the new all in all and in Christian discipleship. Actually, life is not about me actually church is not about me actually knows all about my musical preference. Actually you go all you will actually family.

My family is not about me you think all that's going to be bad for me.

But no, actually that's that's life you he's come to life and life to the full that's that's the halls of the Christian message is that when we deny ourselves and take up the cross and follow him. Then we enter into life upon the relevant question of the tone on his head. On the other hand, you know, one of the biggest questions in the most important things of life. Well well will I go when I die. What could be of more and more relevant question into what is the meaning of life.

What could be a bigger more open question how can I spend my days and was to have maximum significance in my life again.

The Bible address of the lease.

That's right. I like one of the other questions that you tackle in the book which asks how do you read the Bible. It seems to be self-evident. Answer there pick it up and begin to let your eyes drift over the words you Bible but can you get to the essence of what someone is really saying what they're really saying is it so biggest parts of it are so confusing. Where do I begin right yeah I guess what you are sometimes fun people. You know the Bible based on Genesis. Genesis reads quite well and they get in a little further on in the first five books from full to longer routing numbers.

Leviticus was a bit halls all the failing. So I think you know start with something about Philippians follow the break.

The break up the sections of a molten translation. I was so you people begin with the Wonderbra. Also, God would speak to you because again, this is an encounter the living God. Lord, I'm really coming to suicide my agenda. I want to submit to your agenda would you speak to me and you, that out to you to use off the goat spirit to move as you read the Bible you read it through to all social questions what some say what's amazing how does that apply to my life and you walk through that older witches unicorn important always will jump to application illegitimately from the text lectures. You know what, once you've gone through the Ukrainian little notice so maybe he's he's convicting you something a civil am so sorry for that. Please forgive me. Help me to and you'll probably do better whole summit to be grateful for all that's amazing. I'm such a crazy fool that I didn't know what you you internalize me. Praying what it is.

Love the you will be transformed by the end so there's more to say about reading the Bible is a little more in the book itself about that below. Some of things I didn't.

It's great. I know one of the things that I've been reading through every day. The book of Isaiah, which I absolutely love it and I'm just taking my time, but one of the things that I found to be very helpful. I always have a notebook and a pen and I write out versus that strike me and then I'm sure if I go back through the book again different verses will strike because all those verses should be striking me, but it helps me to slow down and think through what I'm reading it rather than just find a zoning out halfway when I'm reading through chapter 50 or something like that long but but that also I think can be helpful is is writing down your thoughts or or as I write out versus thinking through what the word of God is saying and then you can go back and look at that and it really helps you to understand. At least it does for me, because that really is the point to understand the text right great work. I think sometimes we will find it helpful to write in the Bible we you know some of us resist a little bit but is the reason why he can't align pulse the Bible running around so you can generally people often find helpful to your writing and what you've learned from God. You can write you refer back to the very act of writing thoughts: actively underline things. Your mind is true right also make Bibles that have lines where you can take notes in the margins so those can be helpful resources to say without lacking resources right – I mean it's just so lucky for me, and we've got so muddy and all the parts of the world have so few any of the so hungry upon people probably try to stimulate hunger. This will simply provide offices yes what you describe. The Bible is food at one point in the book and I will. I think that's great. And also as a seed. Can you talk a little bit about that that the Bible is your food just as much as your food is your food yeah yeah so you know Amanda live on bread alone, but every one of the proceeds from the mouth of God to us with the idea comes from the fighting that can be a tendency to say to yourself, what I love this morning and if you been a Christian for quite a long time. The truth might be. You didn't mention the something radically new but that doesn't mean you won't fit in the spiritual nourishment takes place. But we need every day and you got and someone you know I was helping' little while now and this is an observation that repulses my down through history, but if someone comes to you in crisis. You know the committing adultery older than some kind of sin that's been a lifelike, very repentant about. They want your help with learning crisis very, very often what happened is that post this at some point, stop reading the Bible and it's because you get weak you you you like nourishment and so you it's food that's sure that's really good points. Another question I wanted to ask you about is this. This is one that really grabs my attention. They all do but does it matter if we use the Bible and church. This is interesting because you have some churches that will have the pew Bible and you can use the pew Bible. There are other churches that have no books at all. They don't have hymnals and they don't have pew Bibles.

They have screens, but there is this tendency. A lot of Christians have commented on that that that there are increasingly churches that just don't have you bring your Bible and you don't open the Bible and maybe you might get a verse thrown up on a screen.

Is that enough and and how do you see the usage of the Bible and church being affected by our modern culture. What we do about it really does matter to me unless hung up on the method so that probably all different methods of distributing the word much less hung up on the method. The actuality of it so I if I go to church and notice of settlement which is tangentially kind of may be related to the spirit of some point. Usually what cities true and probably even helpful, but the long-term effects about it into sometimes will show to so that all you create a generation of Christians who all vulnerable to all social, spiritual, you know what is doctrinal, moral, and this shows is why the church in the West is open to also also heterodox is no heretical teaching lots and lots of moral compromise, confusion about what to do things about like the sexuality of the school room because little beef and stood in a churches unit. We live in America there's a market for Christianity, churches are competing in the market and so will they want to do is find a niche or product that will appeal to the Christians and you know so they want a little the barrios and and so this is huge pressure. That way, but the view the ramifications of that is that people can end up not because of the no prefer to be stronger than the "vulnerability so I think it yelled at for the two the two things will be driving this book from a resort right one is supposed little just reading Bible postal time feel things pretty cool to the church so you know it is called Shaw to preach the word of God in the Scriptures, the Old Testament as well as the New Testament close the Old Testament Scriptures will the Scriptures of the New Testament should be called the couple to the whole Bible really is.

Must be at the heart of any kind of healthy church and yes I think it does about the method. To me the different methods of getting off not too hung up about the practice reducing poem yes it is well and it's important I think as well that the whole life of the church is centered around the Bible as well mean to have Bible studies. Yes Sunday school classes, but it's easy sometimes to devolve into topical this are topical, that which is it wrong, necessarily, but it seems that would be something that would also help the life of the church is that if the Bible were upheld in Bible studies for everybody. Come on, let's study the word together. Let's dig right. Yeah, we probably will be will reply that which you fear your Bible study group together and you know you begin by showing progress what Google 45 minute you you look at what it will quickly put a quick look at the Bible you do it for three minutes with zero and a close fellowship support. Another distinction you are getting to know each other be a community's usually important thoughts.

That's the wrong proportion of time, absolutely. Well it's a great look how the Bible can change your life – many senior pastor college church with us and so good to talk to you again just got bless you and keep thank you thank you thank you very much God bless you. This archived broadcast of Janet map are today is brought to you by Hartford, Lebanon, God is using hard for Lebanon to bring practical assistance and the gospel to the stricken refugee families in Lebanon for a gift of $116 you can give a child in his family survival essentials for four months and the hope of Jesus Christ which lasts forever. Call now 888-247-5499 888-247-5499 there's a banner to effort today. Here's your host Joe back well when it comes to the discipleship of children as we know family plays an incredibly important role as Psalm 145 four says one generation shall commend your works to another, and shall declare your mighty acts. Normally when we think about discipling children. We think of the role of the parents, but even when speaking to the children of Israel about their required obedience to God. Moses told them to make God's rules known to your children and your children's children. So what role do grandparents have to play in the spiritual growth of their grandchildren working to talk about it today with Dr. Josh Mulvihill who is Executive Director of church and family ministry of renewing nation where he equips parents and grandparents to disciple their families is also served as a pastor for almost 20 years and he's here today to talk about his book discipling your grandchildren just just great to have you with us. How are you doing wonderful. That is wonderful. This is a great subject because there are a lot of grandparents who I know have had a huge spiritual impact on their grandchildren but we don't often formally discuss the role of grandparents doing discipleship. What think that is well there. Backstage figure for a lot of parent that we undervalued by our culture and churches so that ended in place from the periphery so low end of the I called the forgot members of the family and it's time that we begin the reader understand what God says about grandparents and open the door open the gate so that grandparents can do what God hath them with so it's been fun.

We feel quite a awakening across the country with grandparents of faith begun really understand their role in churches have began to engage with grandparents in ways that they have not previously so yeah it is really good.

I was thinking about that versus second Timothy chapter 1 where Paul says I'm reminded of your sincere faith of faith. At 12 first in your grandmother Lois and your mother is now. I'm sure dwells in you as well mean there are a lot of versus when you go when you look at some of the verses about grandparents and handing down the faith through generations. There are out more verses pertaining to grandparents having an emphasis on spiritual growth in their grandchildren. Then I even realized I knew some of the key passages but always looking to the commentary said while there really are a lot of references to this time, you look for the word grandparent or grandparent thing you'll only find it a couple times based on the translation version you use, but the Bible uses different terminology like children, children and son and father father father yeah you going look up any of those turn suddenly you go wow the Bible actually references grandparents a couple hundred times and that actually was the focus of my my dissertation when I started the explore that what wow there are there's a lot here so you got got have a lot to grandparent are extremely important in family discipleship back. Barnett did a study and found that they were the number two influence spiritually for children that they were more impactful than teachers that appear that pastors minimize those influences, but you I start to think about how could that be in my my opinion is that you know who has a presence in the child's life from their earliest days into their adulthood years. Assuming that God blesses the grandparent with long life and there are very few people outside of the family for young people. So I just think it comes down to time and longevity of time. Yes yes that's so important you know I'm sure there are many people in the listening audience, myself included, who could say all my my grandmother was so wonderful and she prays for me all the time you think about the role of grandparents a lot when it comes to prayer.

At least that's anecdotally that's what I hear from a lot of people. My grandmother is junior prayer warrior, but you're talking your book a lot about a lot of other things that grandparents can be involved in pertaining to the discipleship of the grandchildren. Where would you begin if you were to tell grandparents here's how you can start getting involved in your grandchildren's life for the purpose of discipleship with grandparenting it takes two to tango like you parent you got direct access to child not a grandparent, father of five speak for my life personally.

We sat down with my children's grandparents and just I call it the talk and we just simply had a conversation about here.

So how we parent. Here's what were trying to accomplish. From what we understand the Bible's asking us to do is parent and here are some ways you could be involved in the course that grandparents and parents are, generally in the same ballpark as far as their their goals and their outcomes and how they see life about 2533% of families.

For those families that you, for whatever reason there's an adult child not walking with the Lord or just in different places relational pensions.

Whatever else a lot of challenges that the goal of course, repair the relationship or to you know we need to get on the same page before we can be working towards the same goals so of course that you got the big subject and of itself and in a person important piece about it in and what we we have what we call grandparents at prayer group which we help grandparents in that arena supporting and praying for but as far as some really practical things that could be done. We do what we often call grand camp so this could be at your home for a weekend or locations across the country that grandparents can gather with their grandkids and just spend time together and then become intentional in that there about the book your roof. The scratch the surface on the couple that there are there just on the ways that you it's really running sick. So as you go through life with your grandchildren.

Whether you get a little time every year because their long distance or whether you know they down the road and you get to see him pretty regularly. There's all these kinds of opportunities from one tree understand our role, become serious about it. Then we begin to seize those opportunities as they come in so yeah Fonda Fonda help grandparents engage, and the relational fruit that comes just bring so much value for both grandchildren and grandparent so yes, absolutely. And you know that so important. I think that's a great idea to sit down with the grandparents in and talk to the kids about the family plan for discipleship. I think that such a great thing to do which you say that there is a difference though in the way that grandparents are to disciple their grandchildren versus the way parents need to disciple because clearly you have a more hands-on role when it comes to the parents and the parents don't get to be.

You know the good guys with the cookies all the time. The grant right yeah so so how would you differentiate between the role of parents in the role of grandparents. What would be some of the distinctions. So I call grandparents. The adjunct servant of the parent not a flight to grandparent recognizes that God-given parent. The primary role.

Grandparents are supportive help that in the event that parents are discipling their children in the event that they are not then grandparents become a spiritual Farah get in the can you depending on what parent will allow can maybe step in some capacity, whether that's bring their grandchildren to church. Whether that is a more hands-on discipleship role that a parent would generally have, but they may not because of there's been not fulfilling that and there's plenty in that capacity, and some parents will give the grandparents that opportunity and they step in the kind of your last line of spiritual defense of the family differences. One of the big one discipline I see that primarily of the parents role as far as the physical correction scripturally. If there's never command grandparent. Although the more time that grandparents spend with the grandchild. I think it becomes more appropriate to have some discipline plan with parents so good to me is a delegated authority that a parent needs to give to grandparent at that a conversation needs to happen to figure out what is that look like, what are we comfortable with and so that's a have a whole spectrum of from the West for sure there's a lot more to talk about working to pause for a short break, Dr. Josh Mulvihill with us talking about discipling your grandchildren will be right that for those of us who live in America. It may be hard to believe but there are people in the country of Lebanon who have never heard about Jesus. That's exactly why Hartford Lebanon is there working in the nation that's home to more than 2 million Syrian refugee families who have arrived there to escape civil war and terrorism but every day. Hartford Lebanon is they are reaching out to these needy families in Jesus name telling them about him, and providing food, Christian education and survival essentials and the Lord is changing their lives. Let me tell you about one of those refugees anything who is 10 years old she lost her mother when she was just a toddler, but hard for Lebanon met her as they were delivering food portions to her family with no opportunity for formal education and Eva wakes her father up early in the morning when hard for Lebanon's educational fund truck is scheduled to arrive recently during a skit about God's love honey for placed her faith and trust in Jesus for salvation. And now, because her father is illiterate. She's reading the Bible to him each evening. This family, although currently living in very tough times is slowly starting to realize the hope that only comes through Jesus Christ and the hope that only reaches them because people like you give to get the gospel to them.

Your single investment of just $116 help someone like and Eva and her family with supplies needed to survive the next four months and the hope of the gospel which lasts forever. Perhaps you could help a family like this for an entire year by joining our whole provider team at just $29 a month. Whatever you can do please call now 888-247-5499. That's 888-247-5499 or there's a Hartford Lebanon banner to

These families need immediate help. More than that. They need Jesus and they need you. Please call now the number is 888-247-5499 that number again 888-247-5499. Thank you and God bless you for your generosity. You're listening to you today and here's why you think about Psalm 92 the righteous flourish like the palm tree and grow like a cedar in Lebanon.

They are planted in the house of the Lord. They flourish in the courts of our God.

They still bear fruit in old age, and it really is an important thing for us to remember that grandparents play a very big role in the lives of their grandchildren and were discussing this with Dr. Josh Mulvihill was put out a great book on this discipling your grandchildren – we were talking before we went to the break about the role of the grandparents and discipleship of the grandchildren versus the parents and what's the differentiation and you were mentioning that there either adjunct servants to the parents if the parents are discipling and everybody's on the same page or spiritual surrogates of sorts. If the parents are not discipling. Which brings up an important question because a lot of families do have problems that that's where you have the grandparents are strong Christians but may be that parents have walked away from the faith or their lukewarm said then you have kids who are born into a home or maybe they're not even going to church, but the grandparents are terribly concerned that they come to know the Lord.

Yet they don't want to step on the feet of the grant of the parents and and go against the parents, lest they lose contact you had that whole relational dynamic that become awkward. How do you advise grandparents to deal with that kind of a situation if that's what they're facing in their family about families and there are a lot of generally we come to talk about the influence principal and where this is not the direct truth telling. Typically the kind of the hard-hitting for the most part it seems that that kind of plan tends to backfire and so we encourage more of it.

When we look at the grace and truth spectrum. We look we tend encourage more on the gray side of things that we attract more with honey rather than the hard-hitting, so… Be the end-all answer, but it tends to keep the door open. The relationship Dalglish and that tends to be the you know the component that could then potentially lead to sup change and transformation in hearts and lives down the road and so we you know we we try to support grandparents in this recognizing that it's probably a good to be along in a bumpy road for many in the in Scripture we see God had a Lotta prodigal son maybe somewhere with nurse today. I good news is we have lots of examples from Scripture on what to do in the case of a product going and God the father is the primary example and that how he extends grace and always pursued Christ ate with sinners, and the door was open extending forgiveness and you know we could go down the list of those kinds of principles those of the same kinds of things we want to extend. Of course, prayer is huge in this regard, we can't change hearts only. Only Christ can then so we continue to bring our children before the board that are walking with him, then you know and we just pray for God's transformation in their lives. You adult children will obviously put some restrictions on grandparents and that becomes extremely difficult for those that don't, and give some opportunity. This is where I think grandparents can step in. So encourage you know that conversation that happened just as you mentioned, you know, a lot of times were trying to dance around landmines or figure out where the boundaries are and sometimes I think it's good to ask the question have the conversation so that those unknown don't blow up in our face and then we come to regret it now. Yeah, obviously you can still do things like pray for your grandchildren be a good example talk about going to church. She now share Scripture with them. Whatever you're able to do without completely destroying the relationship with the parents and that is a fine line to walk sometimes, but for those who do have cooperative parents working together with time to disciple the grandchildren you have an awful lot of really good ideas. You had mentioned like the grandparents camp and grandparents ministries at churches. This is all great stuff. What about things like just basic sharing the gospel. I mean we can't even necessarily assure that our grandchildren are hearing the gospel message fully if we just leave it to church, or if we just leave it to Sunday school because how do you know that your child is paying attention when the gospel was offered. So what are some of the ways that grandparents can just really deal with the child and say do you know Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Great point Janet actually marked my research found that only 14 grandparents had verbally shared the gospel with your grandchildren. I want to commend you for bringing that up and I want to encourage a grandparent that's listening today just because your grandchild hears the gospel in their home or they go to a great church read in a Christian school where there hearing the gospel. It doesn't negate our responsibility to share that and I know what I never get tired of being reminded of the gospel and the good news that is found it that so your grandchildren here that wonderful tools there are some great apps that can be downloaded for free on go to the app store just type in gospel sharing the gospel.

Those kinds of things that come up.

We have used with our kids. The event you Q it's just pictures the colorless book. It's been wonderful and we've used condoms, a tool like that Romans Road sing the song Romans Road that talks through the different verses in Romans so different ways that whether visual or audio gospel in front. I know some grandparent have purchased kind of gospel booklets and they literally leave them out on their end table or coffee table and grandchildren will come over to their home in look at this.

It looks attractive visually pick it up and start reading and you walk right into a gospel conversation is grandchildren are are looking at it.

So I think that all those kinds of tools are just wonderful help that we can utilize without with the children in our lives. That's grace that is really great and even the relational things that you do with your grandchildren can be very important things like cooking together me. I remember having great memories of watching my grandma bake cookies and bake cakes and she let me help in this because of things while you would say well that's not very spiritual. That's building a relationship that's building more and more love and closeness together which is very important. I think when you're trying to disciple your grandchild yet radical back research shows that the frequency of contact between grandparents and grandchildren and then translate into closer relationships so you know if you want a higher-quality relation ship feel like I just don't. I don't know what going with my adult children are my grandchildren. A simple simple answer is, Inc. increase the frequency and there's been a time to research effectively been done on the amount of contract that grandparents have with grandchildren and so for most grandparents. There's actually one out of two falls in the detached or passive category, which means they spend, they see their grandchildren less than one time per book.

That you you can have a relationship but it's hard to have a really intimate relationship when there's just not a lot of contact and it goes both ways.

This is the slap across the face to grandparents because I realize a lot of grandparents tell me I just lament that my adult children don't call that they seem too busy for me for goes both ways. But sometimes if a grandparent doesn't initiate in a greater capacity what you just said is critical. It just begins to develop those relationships which should then give the opportunity for the discipleship to occur. Yeah that's right what older grandchildren. You know, you're thinking of kids who are, you know K through eight or something like that and you're having really great relationships with those kids in ways that you can relate to little kids. But what about when your grandchildren get older. What about when they're in high school and college do you advocate different ways of grandparents discipling grandchildren at that age or how did things shift at that point. I love serving alongside one another possible I love getting some books together, building a book library you not much more mature library with some specials again at the teen years in the young adult years can be reading some of the same books together in either connecting regularly or having coffee together to discuss this one up grandmother sent this all just read this little testimony to you this with her 17-year-old granddaughter sent this text to hurt and it said I've learned more about how to be a Christian by watching how you live your life the way you pursue a life that reflects him in every way, whether that be through your marriage or simply talking to a man in the restaurant for 17 years.

I've watched you share the gospel shamelessly and point our family towards him while in every situation. Good and bad that I've ever been in, reminded me that it's not about me that I serve a God that is the plan for me, but ultimately please him.

That's needs. That is really neat. When we got there, but Dr. Josh Mulvihill from renewing nation. You can find and the name of the book is discipling your grandchildren Josh so good to have had you here. Thank you so much for the great advice and great tips Janet all right got bless you and thanks again for being here, and thank you for joining us on Janet today will see next time

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