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Jay Richards (Technology) Jeff Johnson (Glory of God)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd
The Truth Network Radio
November 2, 2021 4:30 am

Jay Richards (Technology) Jeff Johnson (Glory of God)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd

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November 2, 2021 4:30 am

All around us there is evidence that technology is likely to have a game-changing effect on the future of American work. How can free enterprise and virtue save the American dream? I'll talk it over with Dr. Jay Richards, author of "The Human Advantage: The Future of American Work in An Age of Smart Machines." Plus: Pastor Jeff Johnson says we'll find satisfaction in life when our search leads us to the glory of God. He'll discuss his book, "The Pursuit of Glory," on Tuesday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY


This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by Hartford, Lebanon, God is using hard for Lebanon to bring practical assistance and the gospel to the stricken refugee families in Lebanon for a gift of $116 you can give a child in his family survival essentials for four months and the hope of Jesus Christ which lasts forever. Call now 888-247-5499 888-247-5499 there's a banner to, our confidence is in Christ alone have a game changing effect on the and alongside the rise of the machines like robots that can do tasks and recognize speech is the rise of concern that as smart machines do more and more human beings will do less and less. So how can free enterprise and virtue, save the American dream were to talk about it today with Dr. Jay Richards Prof. in the school of business and economics at the Catholic University of America is a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute and also executive editor of the stream's new book is called the human advantage the future of American work in an age of smart machines and say it's wonderful to have you here. How are you doing right it's great to have you here so I know there is a lot of anxiety out there about machines taking up our jobs. They see stories about this all the time. Do you think that anxiety is warranted depending on what you're doing a little bit worried like my body in the book to prepare a road book, in part because so much confusion about the difference between being on the one hand you know if you like with you there, like us, you can be worried or if you're nothing but you should probably be worried and filled up that believes click on the world.

You people worry but there is a massive disruption, it really happened yet in which huge number of the jobs that we now do. It might think.

Only humans can do. I really do think about smart artificial intelligences or robots or other types of machine so the part of the question of what I think the difference between random machinery is also one of my doing what I'm doing.

My children doing are they likely to be automated. So what I do about yet huge questions when you look at the landscape out there where do you see the biggest change is about to take place. Where will robots are smart machines, artificial intelligence, replace human beings which fields are most likely to see those changes factories or places like the healthcare field where you see those things taking place all across the board. A lot of people think blue-collar white color but utterly not true. Doing insurance adjusting certain types of accounting. Financial planning or forecasting. A lot of those are already being overcooked with smart machines are running smart algorithms really do factory work when you're basically doing the type of work that sort of fit for a machine can be used to create a machine that can do that and I can look at many factoring sector contracting 80 about two thirds of the jobs lost have been the result of moving jobs China or Mexico have been the result of automation. Now that that's the bad side the good side of our manufacturing sector is more productive than ever to really what you will look at it this type of job. Highly repetitive or can be reduced through some kind of system or an algorithm like the price people, long-haul trucking, which is a very important job, especially for member states in which the main job of long-haul trucking that technology for long-haul you know through the tractor trailer trucks across the country on on interstate we don't have the technology to do that, we think a heck of a lot of those jobs are going to go the way the dodo bird so that what you're doing and that your long-term plan that I would advise you try to diversify welders there still will now.

What happens is we see the rise of machine learning in these sorts of technologies doesn't that necessitate more jobs in some respects that there will be additional jobs that do not exist right now because of machines coming on board absolutely difficult when the book I talk a lot about you think about and 76, 95, the population were working and living on farms today approaching 1% to 94% unemployment in the last 200 what happened for everyone is a lot less expensive.

Most of us don't have to worry about doing farm labor for that previous up to do other things than lower prices on food and other things creates markets that were there before the difficulty getting you to see jobs that are washed, it's hard to say exactly what jobs will replace them. Because overall is in the future, and so in some ways, the best we can do is look at historical precedents and look been major job disruptions in the past, it always led to actually better and more job that I think we can expect the future rights and when you're talking about us being an agrarian society which we largely were many years ago and then went into the industrial age we had different forms of the American dream is you talk about the first American dream.

The second American dream. So little bit if you would about the evolution of the American dream and where the new American dream. I beheaded, remember the word loyalty comes from the 1930s, but it really To that phrase from the Declaration of Independence, but you know we hold these truths to be self-evident, all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator to pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That idea that that pursuit to open everyone, not just the well-heeled and well-connected but ordinary people willing to work that's been apart from the American excrement from the beginning it really started out as just the desire to own a family farm by about 1950 it is moved to where most people wanted to own a home farm deck aft millennial the day you want to buy a house or condominium almost none of them think about owning a home as their dream dream is always something more diffuse and the best I can do this or to describe what the third American dream is his desire to be able to create value to create value for yourself and others a more concrete, but also sort of more expansive so interesting you write and you hear a lot of people talking that way. I want to do something that matters. I want to do something that is really worth something and I think of previous generations that would've just been unconscionable for them to think that way. So what does that portend then for the future.

If you have a generation of people who are saying I really want to create something of value. Would that, for example, create a new generation of entrepreneurs. For example, I think so. We think of entrepreneurs about the quintessential quintessential creators of value. Can they take risk, often with their own or with venture capitalist money, but really any job that you do any job for which there's a market I mean you tell the story of this guy left one company become actually tribal who dwelt in Wisconsin, no one would think, including quantum and clearing septic take of my dream. And yet I figure out a way to do it. You eventually realized he enjoyed it and it was because he was creating a value for other people and so honestly I think yes there are many opportunities for our marriage but don't imagine it unless you're willing to take huge risks with all the money that you saved up that somehow you can create value what you want to do with personal find something that people need not want to fix created lines, then the thing that you might be good at or think you might be willing to go that finally overlap between those things and get good at it and try to do better than your competitors when you do that you will find that your creating value, and we know actually for happiness studies the people and do that local earned success. They tend to be happier than everybody else right now. Now one of the things when you talk about. For example, that the events of 2008 in the housing crisis and all the rest. You now have a populace that is deeply in debt. In many cases you have college education costs which are out of control. You have many students who are not able to repay those loans as fast as they expected to what the burden of dad's and the possibility of beginning. You know, a new generation of expansion into the new American dream if you are saddled with that much dad is that can be a huge problem in the future to be a problem if you're settled with that you can't pay off. And so whenever I'm talking the college student college professor, and so on. But I don't want to advise students based on my narrow self-interest. I mean I really think it the fear if mistake in this day and age dispense a $50,000 a year on a college education to get a degree not only not soul expanding that it doesn't it doesn't do what liberal arts is close to doing it also doesn't actually give you a marketable skill.

What you're doing, and gender studies, formerly Christian college. That's probably a terrible idea.

Unless you are planning to be a corporate activist or something like that especially I talk about what about the book actually really cheap and expensive useful ways to get knowledge online either free or address to reduce cost. So I think there's a reckoning coming for colleges that cost way too much in the don't actually deliver value for students that will allow them to create value.

Now you're so right about that to get into more human advantage.

The name of the book from Jay Richards will come in today after this, this is Janet matter to provide a link international authorities in China are making life difficult for Christians. It's against the law to share Christ with children under age 18. We cannot preach to children under 18 practice and know when parents bring to this church. You can teach English and then you can send gospel to them, join believers are teaching English to young people using a finally program that uses God's word is the source of the reading assignments, and many are coming to embrace Jesus as Lord and Savior and sharing him with their families is joined by Lincoln sending God's word to buy Melissa believers in China and around the world for only five dollars per Bible $50 since 10 $500 sends 100 call now 800 yes word 800 YDS WORD were there some finally banner to click Janet met Thank you for your when this young mom came into a pre-born center.

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That's 855-402-2229 where there's a pre-born banner to click Janet met 855402 baby you're listening to great to have with us Dr. Jay Richards professor in the school of business and economics at the Catholic University of America.

He is executive editor of the stream and also author of the human advantage the future of American work in an age of smart machines. We covered this territory Jay in the previous segment about the rise of robots, artificial intelligence and the nervousness.

This creates among a lot of Americans that their jobs may be going away because we have all these robots you can do things that formerly humans use to do even though get into something very important in your book, which is rebuilding a culture of virtue now in a book about work. Many people may say what is virtue have to do with that but it you can unpack that a little bit and explain why do we need a culture of virtue and a time like this.

Actually, the secret ingredient because my argument is that, on one hand. We were previously doing are doing right now. On the other hand, we are not machines.

We are creatures made in the image of God.

We are free being exercised, virtue and vice.

We can train ourselves to do new thing virtue actually consciously choosing to act in a certain way over and over and over again until becomes a habit and you do it enough, the habit gets down into your being that you become more than you were before. And so that's something that's unique to this ability up, especially that the virtues of altruism were we seek to meet the needs of others, were we learn to collaborate or exercise glycol creative freedom, quite literally, the thing that humans do. Uniquely, we can create things that were not there before but to do that we have to train ourselves and focus on creating value for others. My argument is that, actually, if you want to focus on the human comparative advantage over machine you have to focus not just on virtue. In general, but the virtues that will allow us to need in the information age.

It turns out the creative freedom is the key virtue of creative freedom is all about creating new forms, creating literally new information and so in many ways. If you think about it. Information comes only uniquely from intelligent agent we can create machines that are informational, they can transfer, store it, but we hear of the creators of new types of information of new ideas and information economy you're focusing on that part of what it means to be here when I argue that actually really well fitted for human being just a really quick machine that do a lot of stuff a lot of the drudgery.

A lot of you might think of it is sort of animal work the computer given to an ox or into a machine that will lead us to build a focus on those things that are uniquely human and so that virtue in general and virtues like creative freedom in particular that I think that brings us up to exercise that would ultimately have to focus on it. Just as individuals without being we need to build up institutions that actually create virtue.

Nobody does this on his own. No one thought Robinson Crusoe by ourselves.

We kind of creepy.

You know the sanctified people we families wean churches with involuntary Association, I think. Part of that at the very moment when technology is disrupting the way of life that we got used to in the 20th century.

Also undermining chipping away at the virtue of forming institutions that will get on the most in order to succeed in the 21st centuries. Right now, here's an important point because we are at a point in our history where were beginning to see the rise of progressivism and interest in socialism. I was reading recently in the discussion about robots getting more and more of our jobs. What you do about income for people and some of the ideas included a universal basic income or a federal job guarantee subsidies for the employment of human workers, but none of those necessarily sound like good solutions. If you're losing your virtue in your in your culture at the same time that the robots are on the rise, there's worry, I think to be had there. There's a little bit of concern that I have are we morally prepared to deal with robots that I think that honestly is an open question to bring up the topic of sex robots, but I sort of be if you want to the dark side that the dark side it wouldn't be that big a deal if no one was tempted to that. The reality is that there is a market for that… Simply the reality of it and then you mentioned this idea of universal basic income which is actually we would take everybody a fixed amount not to work. Now I understand the desire to help people that are in transition, but I think we also need to learn the lesson the last 50 years of the welfare state again.

Well-meaning attempts to to alleviate poverty, but so many of these programs actually undermine the virtues that people need in order to succeed and expand out not just from the underclass on welfare, but to the whole population will go to now people effectively repay people not to work. I think I think I could opposite of what we want to do whatever policy prescriptions we come up with to alleviate this problem.

We don't want to do things that actually undermine virtue and it even goes against our basic economic system is II was thinking back I went to the Soviet Union when I was in high school and we were in Leningrad and there was a hotel being built and there were construction things all around and didn't some different construction workers and eyes at night, and it's one of the Russian people I was with and I said hello there building a new hotel that so great and she looked at me and kinda rolled her eyes as a what's the matter, and she said building after 20 years I said why does it take 20 years to build a hotel and she said they get paid whether it gets built or not. Why build it.

I mean that's what we would be walking into if we started having universal basic income.

Why work. Why work and although I virtue that you need is what altruism is acting for the benefit of the other. Now you have to meet the customer's name did you get paid less. I create something that somebody else values you're going to go out of your way to Crete. Think of something else values and you don't have to do that. That's difficult to do what I wanted to play world of war craft for 15 hours on my computer. You check you away if I didn't really think there's been about 20 books. Believe it or not last two years talking about automation robot and advocating this universal basic income and took part of the reason I spent a bunch of time in the last one. The last chapters of the book is just laying out why this is a terrible idea that looks like it is getting popular both on the left and on the right politically. Unfortunately, do you think that that's coming from a place of people just not wanting to do anything that were so materialistic at this point we have so many conveniences and so much can be done for us that were just getting lazy and that's some of the loss of virtue that were experiencing not currently part of the irony. I use the example of the Irish emigrated United States mostly in the 19th century. You might think a while they came over here that was a huge risk, but in many ways for the Irish emigrated there live auction was starvation. You know, working basically as oppressed tenant farmers other famines and their choices well either get on a boat leave our family forever and to go to an unknown land or die of starvation for that case and I kind of encourages you to act courageously because you're hurting so bad to start the death of you conclude by your parents basement, get a check from the government and do that because you have to if you're going to be courageously because you cultivated that virtue in some way. The fact that so many of us have it so easy makes it easy for us to be developed by some. Fortunately, rather than purchase yeah that's right in and back to the question of whether or not a universal basic income. Whatever be put into place that gives government more control and just from an economic perspective. Now you got in a new kind of society that's not just a new kind of American dream you got a new America.

If that goes that direction absolutely clear form of socialism. What's funny about your with a letter written by activist scientist way back in 1954 to Pres. Johnson talking about whatever time they called hibernation revolution but really talking about robots and they said we need a universal basic income to solve this 1964, Johnson and do that but he did start his great Society initiative to declare war on poverty shortly thereafter until this idea been around and encouraging bad policies for a long time.

Unfortunately, there's always a kind of addict only some excuses.

Somebody is going to use in order to grow.

The government can reduce our economic freedom. This is precisely the wrong time to try and do that again. It is still in your section as you mentioned toward the end of the book you talk about happiness and how to pursue it. Should we even look at the question of happiness and what actually should be pursued in order to achieve it while you go to carpool with me and I have a lot of Christians here that thing happiness.

We should be pursuing holiness left certainly true, but that's not the classical definition of happiness isn't for a short short-term sensual pleasure that you might get email from a rush from experience, it will become a long-term state of flourishing and which are both both healthy you have your needs met. You can protect your children, but also based on virtue of all the way back to Aristotle, the person cannot be truly happy if they're not also virtuous person. That's why you any mothers never to tell her child, you have a son that likes to torture small animals. Well, whatever make you happy. No, no, that's not happiness or so along with my child. We know that true happiness can only be had a bit consistent with the major what we are as humans created an image of God. So the question is always well but if I pursue a life of virtue is to make me miserable is it going to torture me. Well maybe and maybe God will call you to sacrifice your life, brothers, about a rare instance. I really think that the more likely scenario for most people is you pursue a life of virtue. If your personal life in which you look for ways to create value for others, you're most likely both to succeed economically and also to come experience and wife, the kind happiness. We can experience the side of glory which is a fulfillment what Arthur Brooks gold earned six benefit financially but you benefit by serving other people, not by exploiting them or stealing from them the kind of virtuous circle in which we pursue virtue for its own sake, and because God calls us to that coldest likable life of holiness. Look for ways to serve others that in our free enterprise system allows us to succeed economically and not economic success allows us to do things that we cannot do otherwise and so argument before the for the package deal look for a full life of flourishing the is just spiritual, but is an only spiritual but also economic anything to do it right. I actually think I got while I think that's well said, and it's very well said. Throughout the book.

It's really a great talk again.

It's called the human advantage the future of American working in each of smart machines by Dr. J Richardson check out the stream online J always great to talk to you. Thank you for being here.

Thanks Raven all right you take care will be back on Janet reference gang. This archived broadcast of Janet today is brought to you by Hartford, Lebanon, God is using hard for Lebanon to bring practical assistance and the gospel to the stricken refugee families in Lebanon for a gift of $116 you can give a child in his family survival essentials for four months and the hope of Jesus Christ which lasts forever.

Call now 888-247-5499 888-247-5499 there's a banner to click aunt today and here's your show today. Why are we all here. What is our purpose that we find happiness and meaning in life. While the world tells us to make life all about ourselves, but what is the biblical answer to that question. You might recall that in his confession St. Augustine famously stated, you have made us for yourself of God in our hearts are restless until they find their rest in you, or at the Westminster shorter catechism which ask what is the chief end of man and the answer is man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy him forever. Then we think of Psalm 37 four which says delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart so we know all of this to be true.

And as my next guest says we will find satisfaction in life when our search leads us to the glory of God, so that is what Renna talk about today with Jeff Johnson. He is the teaching pastor of Grace Bible church and academic Dean of Grace Bible Institute of pastoral studies in Conway Arkansas's book is called the pursuit of glory and Jeff. It's a privilege to have you. Thank you so much for joining us think you while you say and I think you're right in saying this with we are all looking for glory and when you say that statement to somebody what you mean, that were all looking for glory. The word glory in the book encompass all the inmate desires that God is put into us to pursue something greater than ourselves something glorious that something got put in the glory that will pursuing is actually God himself. Even though were often misled by our flash and by the world to think glory is found in some other place right no fame or fortune or something of that nature right now. How do you see people sometimes misusing that way that God created us to pursue him and then going other directions. Apart from the Lord. Obviously if you're not pursuing God you're not ultimately finding the purpose for which he made you, but where you see people getting off track with that wrote the Bible that were born that initial were already born call, relationship God and since we don't have the glory of God. Our relationship with God and we still have that pursuit of glory. That's not enraged going to stick it somewhere call your program not look important. God, natural place to look us somewhere in this world I might be within ourselves. And so were all pursuing glory is just a matter for right so if you are properly pursuing glory and the glory of God. What should that be how do you go in the right direction.

Even as you're living your life in this world we want to find something that we inherently glorious and we look at something in this world being famous on winning the Super Bowl doing something amazing that people very excited about all that stuff is fleeting; it doesn't last very long. The glory of this world. The Bible says is passing away at Temple. But there's another glory that doesn't fade away, and the Bible describes glorious, weight awaiting us something that has true substance and when you look at this world. The Bible describes the world is baying all under the sun. Solomon said vanity because of the brevity of his last very long. And that's why when you trace the glory of this world going from one thing to the next because one of the new core fades away posting us help you in getting 100 likes that's good for the moment, but the next day.

It's no longer sufficient. This chasing one triple thing after the next and really never finding me payment to Tom or substance and for us upon glory. That doesn't bring away. We must find something that you come home and only thing that truly truly has quarried in its own nature is not himself. It's true that's so true. Well said you mention in the book when I thought to be a really scary scenario where you are close to ending your own life and you say you wanted to die because of your unquenchable desire to be happy. Now our founders talked about life, liberty, and The Pursuit of Happyness spent. Would you share a little bit about that. What do you mean about the unquenchable desire to be happy and how sometimes that can take us off course 20 people with suicidal and I've experienced so it seems to me that suicide is not viable for anyone. It just seems to be the best of the options that are available to us. And so when you when life is miserable and you lose all your Happiness and You Thought That Which Was to Make You Happy Is Now Gone Would Come Depressed and in the Process of Becoming Depressed Were Still Seeking Happiness Were Still Seeking for Liberty Were Still Seeking for Meaning and Purpose Were Still Seeking for These Things Because Were Not Able to Find Them and What We Were Looking for It in the Thing That Will Work with Come to the Conclusion That It Can Be Found of the Course Will Help Me Is Finding That Satisfaction and Not Glory in Our Purpose and Meaning in Christ Himself, Which Is True Hope for All of Us. Yeah, I'm so Glad You Know This Is an Issue That Really Does Hit Close to Home for A Lot Of Us Who May Have Had a Family Member or Friend Commit Suicide and Unfortunately Those Numbers Are Higher Than We Want Them to Be but Where You Look upon Those Who Say I'm Not Happy I'm in Pain I'm Really Sad. I Am Hopelessly Sorts of Things Looking to Get Out Of This Life As a Way of Making Themselves Happy. How Would You Go Back to Somebody Who Might Be in That Position and Talk Them Out Of That and Say Listen in the Lord, You Can Have Peace and Joy. And You're Thinking about This All Wrong Right When One Bottle, What Else, and What They're Looking for Hope. Hope Is like a Light. Darkness, When All Was Dark.

You Just Need like You Need Something Is Okay. I Can Live Because of This Counseling Someone Main Thing You Want to Do Is Provide Hope and We Hope That's the Good News of the Gospel Were Not Left with Just Empty, so Will Get Better. You Can Get through This Search.

Just Hold on, on the Wiper on Get Another Job You Are to Get over This Sickness, We Can't Promise These Strange but We Can't Promise Something Even Better, We Can Promise That If You Look to Christ, You Can Have E. coli and with That You Can Live with Disappointment You Can Live with Frustrations and Sickness and Politics. You Can Live with… Those Things Loses Older Staying Older Difficulties, but There's Something underneath It All, That Gives You Joy and Peace As a Peace or Joy That Surpasses All Understanding. And That's the Joy of Knowing the Lord Mortised with You Sustaining You That There Something Greater in This Life There Something Greater Than the Temple Moment of Frustration Difficult.

Yes Line Is You Are Mentioning Social Media A Few Minutes Ago I Was Thinking about How in Many Ways. Our Generation Is a Little Bit Deranged Because We Have so Much Materially.

We Have so Much Even the Poorest of Us Have so Much Compared to so Many Other People in the World and We Buy into These Very Shallow Notions of Having to Be Happy All the Time Aiming That's Not Even Realistic, Even for the Non-Christian, You're Not Happy All the Time.

You Might Be Happy on a Particular Day Because You Had a Great Day Tomorrow. You May Have a Lousy Day, but What about Just the Whole Subject of Happiness from a Christian Perspective That It's Not Realistic and It's Not Even God's Will That You Are Happy Happy Happy All the Time That's Just Not the Way It Is Not Related to Culture, Deteriorates before I See That in the past People on Happiness and Purpose and Meaning of Something Potential Even If It's Not Quite Fond Meeting in the Fact That That They Descended from a Particular People like Pam, Johnson, Mike, My Grandfather Johnson and Johnson up on Meeting at Something More Substantial. My Family Identity. My Family Network.

But Now We from That to Just Trying to Find Happiness in the Slightest Little Things Such As Helping a New Parachute New Perigee and That Brings a Measure Happiness and Measure Closure, a Measure of Glory Because Someone like Those Genes, like Those That Shirt You Got, and That Gives Us a Media Station You Would Possibly Seeking over and over Affirmation. Yeah, That's Exactly Right. Just a Moment Jeff Johnson with Us the Pursuit of Glory Is His Mother Will Be Right Back Talking about It on. Jana Met for Today. The UN Has Called What's Happening in Lebanon. The Worst Humanitarian Crisis since World War II Covered 19 Political Upheaval, a Crumbling Economy and 2 Million Refugees, Children and Their Families Living in Poverty and Despair. But in the Middle of It All, God Is at Work, More Muslim Cultured People Than Ever before Are Putting Their Faith and Trust in Jesus and through Your Generous Support Heart for Lebanon Is Being Used To Bring These Hurting People from Despair to Help a Single Gift of $116 Helps Bring a Child in Their Family Survival Essentials and the Hope of the Gospel Which Lasts Forever. $348 Cares for This Family for an Entire Year.

We Have a Goal to Take over 50 Families off a Waiting List That Desperately Need Our Help.

So Were Hoping You'll Be As Generous As You Can When You Call 888-247-5499 888-247-5499 or There so Hard for Lebanon Thank you. Ask yourself what you pay for healthcare. Are you single DMA more than $199 a month. Are you a couple do you pay more than $299 a month. Do you have a family to pay more than $399 a month.

Yes, you can serve the entire family with healthcare for only $399 a month with liberty healthcare pretty. Healthcare is a nonprofit ministry insurance so your money goes toward helping other members with their eligible medical expenses and in your time of need. Other members are there for you to, you can feel good knowing your part of a community of like-minded individuals sign up at any time and here their own doctor and hospital find out T. Nance liberty call now 855-565-2560 155-565-2561 or liberty you are listening to you today. Thank you for joining us and it's great to have with us Jeff Johnson teaching pastor of Grace Bible church and author of the book the pursuit of glory and really trying to get a handle on a biblical outlook on life and not falling for what the world tells us we have to be here have to pursue we are to pursue the Lord and that is what ultimately brings us the peace and joy that we need as Christians and were not those without hope anymore. Jeff, you were talking about this before we went to the break and how often times happiness in our modern world is now. I got a new pair shoes are look at how many likes I got on Instagram on that picture of myself and look how thin I am. By the way, these shallow pursuits.

I think really create a scenario in which you have fleeting moments of happiness. But then they have to be refilled all the time. Don't they said this is a problem over and over and over again if you fall into that trap. All these things are superficial and deep down we know superficial, but can't laugh. Don't penetrate your soul and I really do have purpose. I am meaningful as a person and that while more costly seeking these things upon Christ on our purpose, our joy, happiness in knowing him, then we can have something that even the whole world watched us even if were not even if we have no locks on Instagram pictures is okay because we have something greater we have the creator of the universe, saying he will never leave us or suggestion that she has made a strong relationship with him. That is something truly substantial and long-lasting that can fill us with purpose, but a deeper sense of happiness is not contingent upon the superficial affirmation that we might get from the world.

Yeah, absolutely to. I say this again and again, but I'll say it again here. I often joke with people but I'm being serious at the same time how many followers to Jesus have when he was hanging on the cross because even those who loved him for so can't hit that moment so it doesn't it doesn't matter, but a lot of people think that it does.

But you brought up an important subject which is purpose in life and you see a lot of people standing on stage. And you know going on the Internet and making big bucks telling people how you can have this or that and fulfill your purpose and all the rest over vacation of the will of the world. But how do you counsel people or talk even to Christians who haven't thought it through very well about finding your purpose in the Lord.

How you do that what what should you look for and what are you really about when you are finding your purpose in the Lord wanted talk about the importance of work. People try to get a way from work to avoid work. But God made us to work and that reason in a good way. We did apply who we all are about what we do, doctor, teacher, pastor, whatever it is that we do we find some form of the dignity and purpose in our activities and in all work in that spot God made us to find identity and purpose in what we do not and what we seen so many young people today just be more lazy and dependent and having people give them things and expecting everything to be handed to him were made to work at work on alternately the work that we do in this world is going to perish as well and my doctor next in someone's life, but that extension of life. It is only for a few years and eventually die die die so all work has to be a homework. We have to work for something that has eternal value, purpose, and the Bible depicts the work that we do for the Lord even if we give a cold call water to someone which is very if we do that in the name the Lord for the Lord that work heavy total weight purpose to and that gives the housewife purpose that gives the janitor purpose that gives the king's purpose against Pres. gives you purpose gives me purpose because it doesn't matter exactly what our calling is in this life a living Lord working for something that you, and we absolutely will also think about where the Bible speaks of our spiritual gifts and how God gives spiritual gifts to Christians to build up the saints for the work of ministry, and that used to be talked about.

I think more than its talked about today that the Lord does give out spiritual gifts to Christians so that they can use them for his glory.

What is your perspective on that that the use of your spiritual gaps do not believe God made the church to be interdependent upon one another that the saints have different gifts that you say yes or not to be used for cell but to be used.

The body of Christ to serve the church and serve the saints, and even serve people outside the church workbook holds a strong God is, not to be served but to serve. Likewise, we been called to serve and use the God given us to serve his body and soul may not be gifted in all the spiritual but God given me a unique and that is something especially given to me to use for the greater body of the greater good screen that's really great. One of the things you also talk about in the book is the pursuit of freedom and I think he said something very very important on that you said freedom is not found in lawlessness and freedom is not found in the law and those of the two ditches I think sometimes people end up.

And if they go too far. Either way, can you speak to that that the pursuit of freedom can only be found in Christ not in lawlessness or in the law want to emphasize those two ditches, as it were going one direction or another. We think you need to be able to do what I want to when I want to do so, don't myself no reckless activities. We could go on. That's what it means to be free, but the Bible teaches a bondage data so there is no freedom in lawlessness are in sin, but we think about what Mike could personally disobey the law.

The law can point to freedom, but it can't give us the ability to be free and therefore sin is bondage, but for us to obey the law. We need Christ we need to have a relationship with more because only when we walk with the Lord only empowered with the law of the Lord going to obey. We have to have law and welcomes only a relationship with God and his law going through off by that love flowing in and through us. All we able truly to stay away from bondage of sin really important things. Another thing you mention which I think is so important to emphasize especially in tandem with what I just mentioned was the pursuit of holiness. This is, I think when we seen these antinomian impulses come up in the last several years, especially where people say well I'm saved by grace.

I can just do whatever I want. In fact there are so many passages that pertain to our pursuit of holiness can you speak to that and how necessary that is in the Christian life. All you Christians many poor to be like Christ walking holiness and purity be holding a I am holy and as a board indicated it is on holiness and self-destructive the wages of sin is the transgressor, his heart and so much of the counseling. Now do has involved with people's mistakes understand auto beliefs because of their sin. Reaping the consequences of their actions. The negative consequences of her actions in order to get Christians back on the path is to get him back to shaking the holiness without that's right that's right I'm so glad you emphasize that ultimately, as you say finding lice in the mean of the pursuit of life means that we need reconciliation with God.

And this is where it all begins. I'm sure there are people listening to think right now I go to church every Sunday. I am right with God. I believe in God but aren't truly born again by the Spirit of God aren't truly disciples of Jesus Christ. What would you say to that listener who says I want to pursue life. I'm not really sure that I'm there though. Right will pursue why you cry, Lord, is that I am life you not just the resurrection. Why why and by the way.

Chapter 1 begins with the pursuit of glory in the last chapter, which will talk about now is the pursuit of life, speaking the same thing is that why the life that God is going to give us, and he promised us and not just your existence is given the abundant life and abundant life includes all the think happiness, purpose, freedom, companionship, true peace holiness, but a list all the things are are or is what is entailed in the life that God gives us. We want to truly live the life locket. God is called history. It must be found in a relationship with Jesus because you must be found in human by pursuing Christ we pursue life very good excellence with the name of the book is the pursuit of glory pastor Jeff Johnson has been with us and it was just so good of you to calm Jeff. It was wonderful to talk to you.

Great book and thank you so much for being with us here on joy for me to thank you again God bless you, thank you for joining us here on Janet my for today. It's always great to have you along. We appreciate your listening and will see next time this hour Janet my for today is brought to impart my heart for Lebanon call 888-247-5499 to give desperate people help in the hope of the gospel 247-5499

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