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Jim Osman (Spiritual Warfare)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd
The Truth Network Radio
October 15, 2021 4:00 am

Jim Osman (Spiritual Warfare)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd

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October 15, 2021 4:00 am

There's a lot of talk today about spiritual warfare consisting of concepts like "binding demons," "territorial spirits" or "spiritual mapping." But according to Scripture, real spiritual warfare is a battle for truth. I'll discuss it with Jim Osman, teaching pastor at Kootenai Community Church in Idaho and author of the book, "Truth or Territory: A Biblical Approach to Spiritual Warfare." That's next time on Friday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by Hartford, Lebanon, God is using hard for Lebanon to bring practical assistance and the gospel to the stricken refugee families in Lebanon for a gift of $116 you can give a child in his family survival essentials for four months and the hope of Jesus Christ which lasts forever. Call now 888-247-5499 888-247-5499 there's a banner to, our confidence is in Christ alone, I in the early 90s George Otis, the Sentinel group. He coined a term called spiritual mapping. He referred to this term is superimposing our understanding of forces and events in the spiritual domain onto places and circumstances and the material world. Otis told Christianity today at the time that spiritual mapping is nothing more ethereal than creating a spiritual profile of a community based on careful research and the concept of spiritual mapping began to gain momentum from their influential church growth expert, see Peter Wegner went on to teach a spiritual mapping class at Fuller theological seminary. He also asserted the concept of strategic level warfare, which he defined as discerning and praying against territorial spirits assigned to a community wagon or even wrote a book called territorial spirits.

Practical strategies for how to crush the enemy through spiritual warfare. Now the Bible certainly teaches the reality of spiritual warfare we think of Ephesians 6 put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places by as the modern day church gone beyond Scripture and addressing the nature of spiritual warfare and how we are to wage it. This is our topic today. Jim Osman is joining me pastor at Kootenay Community Church in Idaho and his book is called truth or territory.

A biblical approach to spiritual warfare. Jim, it's great to welcome you back. How are you doing I'm doing well thank you for having me on the program.

Well, it's our honor to have you back when we are using this term spiritual warfare. Obviously different people see it in different ways. How would you define it biblically. Spiritual warfare. I defined spiritual warfare is a battle for truth and are used as my text. Second Corinthians 10 three through five were also we walk the walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses we are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. And there are Paul Paul as Bridget would say to the Corinthians that builder were people in the church. There were questioning his authority and and his motives and slandering his integrity he was not battling against them for the people per se. We walk in the flesh was not warring against people in the flesh nor using partial but what really is about the truth just as we are.

We are taking down fortresses the work or not of the flesh was spiritual for the instruction fortresses committee defines those fortresses as speculations and lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God. So true. Spiritual warfare is not the week that we are battling demonic forces we are doing so with the truth, not with what I call carnal weapons like casting down Satan pleading the blood of Jesus on naming and rebuking territorial spirits rebuking the devil canceling generational curses and taxes and praying hedges of thorns. Those things are not scriptural or not biblical. Really, we are called to engage the minds of men whereafter the minds of men and we are trying to destroy the mental fortresses like atheism and agnosticism, postmodernism, rationalism, these these mental ideas that people have to keep them raised up against the knowledge of God to keep them captive in their sin. We are really engaged about for the truth, not a battle for territory and that's where the title of my book for the territory comes from. So I would defined spiritual warfare is about for the truth about battle for people necessarily, but I'm not about for territory were not supposed to be, binding site from geographical locations were not identifying territorial spirits as you did you talk about your introduction with George Otis and see Peter Wegner for the purpose of seizing geographic locations all or people groups of the Lord. We are involved in a battle for the truth. Well that's well said. And it's interesting because when you go to that passage that you mentioned in second Corinthians chapter 10 there is that referenced in the translation. I have of the weapons of our warfare are not being of the flesh, but have divine power to destroy strongholds now. I've heard that kind of language in the kind of rhetoric that goes around about spiritual warfare today and a lot of different camps saying we need to destroy the strongholds of Satan, and we take back our power over in the name of Jesus you know that kind of talk that you hereunder to distract the strongholds of the idea. It seems to some Christians is that I as a Christian have to destroy Satan in some way will.

Where does the Bible even teach that the very next verse goes on to define what he means by strongholds we are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God whereafter the minds of men to the proclamation of the truth so we are to be preaching the truth defending the truth, articulating the truth sharing the truth, the gospel is the truth and it is through the preaching of the gospel. The preaching of the word of God that we are destroying all of the anti-Christian lies that the devil raises up against a true knowledge of God.

We want people to come to a knowledge of the one true God.

In order to do that we are to assault their mental speculations. There are mental arguments that the reasonings the ideologies the falsehoods that men use in in in protecting themselves against coming to the knowledge of God so you know atheism we're weird to destroy the false ideology of atheism default ideology of secular evolution. We are to attack those lies because those allies that the people put up as an excuse against God. You hear this when you share the trickle people to say things like wall evolution proves that there is no God or I'm an atheist because I have all the arguments against the systems of God are our message of the truth assault of those speculations there raised up against the true knowledge of God, and that's all really bringing downward when not when not assaulting these these speculators. This fortresses a statement or some spiritual fortress that he has constructed in the spiritual realm that we assault by saying I rebuke you Satan. I plead the blood of Jesus over the privilege of thorns. I bind the devil, that's how most people think spiritual warfare is waged and none of those practices are biblical in the passages that are often used to support them are taken out of context and pressed into this modern method of spiritual warfare. The most people have in their in their minds. It also is problematic because when you talk about finding Satan or taking down strongholds in this kind of talk is Christ who defeated Satan it is Christ who will eventually defeat Satan for good.

He's already defeated.

He's a defeated foe who is still allowed on the earth to wreak havoc, but his days are numbered. It's an odd thing is in it to make that leap from crushing Satan was Christ's job but now I'm gonna take it on. How did we get here because people in the spiritual warfare movement much like people in the new apostolic Reformation word abatement, but they assume that they have the same kind of authority the same level of authority and the degree of authority to Christ himself, and so that is why they think that their job is to go out and and rebuke the devil and bind the devil and take back all the things that he is captured because they view themselves as basically working out this this authority in this realm by pushing back the forces of darkness through the words that they say the prayers that they pray the mantras that they refute and and their activities in this realm and so they have a have a warped and wrong view of their authority in Christ and not flush the stuff out in this area. Scriptural worker with them when they start practicing these these things that are completely and patently on biblical right so when you're talking about truth or territory.

You do hear a lot of this territory discussing coming from this crowd. Why is it about territory for them. Well there thinking that the spiritual strongholds are are things in this world is Satan because she is in the were supposed to claim them back. This was a view spiritual warfare that I held it in my early Christian life when I was exposed to tape and I don't even remember who was on the cassette tape but it was a message where this man went through this method of spiritual warfare. If you want to claim your relatives for Christ, you need to first bind the devil so you can have no influence over them they needed to plead the blood of Jesus over them. Then you need to claim them for the Lord and then you need to cancel all the generational stands and curses so that they would be free from that and then you need to plead the blood of Jesus more than pray has a foreign so Satan can affect them and it was just this massive construct of things that you would do to claim just one individual for the Lord and then this this methodology is applied to a conference center or a church building or a home. This is employed by by men who promote this theology of spiritual warfare is employed even for taking over territory like a house to give your to buy a house you want the devil or any remnants of the spiritual presence there. So you need to come in and you need to plead the blood of Jesus and the latch forms around claim the house of the Lord you Satan out of the cash amount exercise and we got it we gotta do better on that and really go back to the word of God, which is sufficient for teaching us these things. Jim has been with us through their territories.

This book will come back on Jennifer today.

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You've got this one called them all the same group that you have people today who say that it's about claiming territory binding the devil pleading the blood of Jesus and of course we love the blood of Jesus, but then claiming your family for Christ and then cancel generational curses. It was something to see this one a section of a testimony that I read online. This is from somebody on a blog but I just thought it was an interesting thing about generational curses and it was about a little boy who seemed to be demonized in this person said well the demonization obviously wasn't the result of the boys on center. His choice to worship false gods. The spirits were passed on to him from some other source which most likely is his family well. How do we try to weed and that idea biblically.

If the little boy appears to be demonized. That was grandpa's fault in a minute out of the way on the biblical concept of Scripture in Ezekiel 18. I think it is where the Lord says that the sun will not be punished with the father or the father for the sins of the son, but everybody will be punished for their own ship so if you have a father Ezekiel, he spells out this long scenario in which you have a father who asked righteously of those righteously pose the law of God is blessed if his son turns around and is disobedient to the law and rebelled against the Lord and sins against the Lord. That son receive the blessing because the father was righteous, and always because those that not all that son who was wicked has another son who is then righteous will that righteous son be punished for the sins of the father. Ezekiel says no that's that's that's not exact.

That's horrible how it works. The Lord punishes people for their own sound so to suggest that some child is being punished or cursed, or under a demon because of the sins of its ancestors is patently un-biblical right and what's really going on here is a theological problem because you say there's no sphere of the Christian life or the doctrine of the sufficiency of Scripture gets jettisoned more quickly than it does in the theology behind modern spiritual warfare practices. How is that the case in and take this apart. Theologically, a little bit. Jim if you would and explain to people what is going on with the lack of attention to the sufficiency of Scripture when it comes to a lot of these ideas and many of the spiritual warfare circle that I critique in the book and many of them.

They are relying upon extra biblical revelation for the information, but they use it in battling the spiritual realm, so often times it becomes a way of extra biblical revelation or just in terms of their experience. So it is not uncommon to see men like Bob Larson and other alleged exorcists have interviews with demons where they asked the name of demons that are inside of this person asked where they come from. Ask who their authority as to what other demon more general thereunder what their activities abandon how they got into this person they were receiving information from demonic forces and then they turn around and leverage that information into their spiritual warfare practices and if you ask them what makes you think that this information is true, it comes from a demon and then they will appeal to their experiences they will when I prayed specifically against his name and then we found releasor we found deliverance from the ship and relying upon the information.

Sometimes point game began with demonic encounters when the monarch encounters exorcism sometimes and personal revelation that they get like a for instance the practice that you talked about about spiritual mapping where they try and find out the name of the demons who are over the United States and the regions within the United States so that they can, and specifically that demon force and and bring down that spiritual strongholds of the gospel can go forward. That's the practice of spiritual mapping or strict.

What's also sometimes strategic level spiritual warfare that that information passed is not going to in Scripture there is nowhere in Scripture where we find out the names of these demon generals are over these areas of the United States so they are relying in his charismatic circles upon extra biblical revelation to give them this information. Some of it gleaned from demonic sources and then there praying accordingly or or leveraging their spiritual warfare efforts accordingly, supposedly to bring down the spiritual fortresses for spiritual speculation strongholds. We talked about and and that is that they're not relying upon Scripture for the information.

There's nothing in Scripture that says the names of these demon demons are that there specifically praying against that's right.

And you don't really want to get your information from a demon. Why would that be a reliable source in the first place.

They're assuming that this is true and and or trusting of the amendment and that you just have to ask why, why would you trust that why would you not just go to Scripture when you go to Scripture you look at what spiritual worker is simply the proclamation of truth we are involved in the spiritual battle but that battle was waged when we proclaim the gospel. We don't need anything outside of Scripture.

We don't need any revelation outside of Scripture to do that to battle to make it to prosecute the spiritual battle. For instance, George, Otis, and keep you, like you said that this is one of the most strategic level.

Spiritual warfare is one of the most significant and important things that the spirit is reviewing to the churches today will that is reliance upon extra biblical revelation is have to ask yourself where, why was the spirit holding this back to such a significant tool for 2000 years and is just now giving it to us was not necessary before now, and if it was necessary prior to now then why did the spirit withhold it from his church.

Thousands of people. Millions of people could've been saved if only we have this tool that they allege it is just now being revealed to the church correctly so you can see how that the emphasis behind that is that the Scripture is not sufficient for this battle.

We need revelation information not contained in Scripture over to effectively prosecute Scripture about wow well that's that's a very significant thing for people to understand.

Now you talk about two approaches that are commonly used to build a theology of spiritual warfare, one that you discuss is the empirical method.

The other is basing our understanding on revelation. Can you explain the difference between those two approaches and why they matter. Yet, if we just came Scripture in Scripture alone, and this is the revelation of… Private personal revelation, but revelation of God is given to us in the old New Testament came Scripture in Scripture alone. So what does the spiritual battle look like we would say that in the Gospels we have examples of Jesus directly confronting the forces of darkness. Then we would see him giving certain authority to his disciples, and there are some not as many but some direct confrontations in the book of acts between the apostles of the board and the forces of darkness. And then when we get further into the New Testament in the apostles, which are the instructions to Christians in the churches of how the weight spiritual warfare we would see there that we are not encouraged nor commanded nor do we have any examples and were not given any instruction at all on binding Satan on casting down Satan on pleading the blood of Jesus on strategic level spiritual warfare naming demonic kosher anything we find when we look at the epistles of the New Testament that our main enemy is not the devil. It is the flesh and so we have chapter after chapter in the epistles of the New Testament about how to mortify the flesh reckoned the deeds of our body is being put on the new man in Christ how to walk in holiness. That is the emphasis in the New Testament the direct confrontation between Jesus and the demonic was intended to demonstrate that he was the Messiah. Since only the Messiah could come into the world and do what Jesus did with over the demon structure size that kind of power over death, disease nature and the demonic world that was in evidence of his messianic claims.

So if we were to just base our understanding spiritual warfare on Scripture in Scripture alone.

We would understand Satan is a defeated foe.

Our job is to stand not too advanced not intended to go out and conquer Satan. He has been conquered.

He is defeated so our main enemy is the flesh and and we have three enemies the world, the flesh of the devil and the devil does deceive us. We are warned against using non-entity. It is that that our primary enemy is the flesh it's within us our own sinful nature that we have to battle against excellence that's that's so well said the three enemies, not just one the world the flesh and the devil.

So when were talking about the nature of Satan, who he is. We know the basics. As Christians he's a fallen angel. He took 1/3 with them and they were demons and we know they exist, and we know their real what you think we really need to understand theologically about Satan in the midst of all the error were seen concerning binding and rebuking him.

We need to understand and know he is a defeated enemy Christ is defeated and complete expression or the complete I guess a vindication of that that defeat is going to be yet future because he is currently the devil is a lion roaring about roaming about, seeking whom he may devour. So we are warned in Scripture that he is there to deceive us. He lies to us. He lies about us is accusing us constantly before the throne of God is our enemy, but he does not have the power over us.

We don't fear death. We have no reason to fear of the devil is a defeated foe and Christ himself is going to vanquish him entirely.

At the end and it's not going to be us that have a parking Christ is going to bind him, put him into the pit for thousand years, and eventually cast him into outer darkness and into a place called hell is prepared for the devil and his angels. In the meantime, we are to stand. Understanding that the devil, who is our enemy is a deceiver and he is a liar and that is why we attacked the lies that he tells with the truth. Still, many Christians are very adept at binding Satan rebuking and pleading the blood of Jesus canceling generational curses, praying, but they're losing the war against the flesh because they have no idea how to fight that.

And then they're losing the war against the devil because they believe all kinds of lies, he tells and it is not difficult to look at the church modern church in America today and realized we are awash in lies and most people who name the name of Christ. Believe almost any light spewed up from the pit of hell from Bowser Satan himself while they think they're just doing great work in defending the truth in lending fighting the devil because there binding him and casting them down rebuking him on right hand on the left and and they're losing the true war, which is a battle for the truth because their minds have not been trying to discern truth, or to know truth. Most of hundred knots. Most Christians do not fit under good preaching there. They're not discerning and they're not even able to understand or articulate the gospel when given the chance, and we were losing the truth and we are fighting a war.

The cold fight and not expected to hang on a moment working to go to a break will be back with Jim Osman truth or territory pertains. This archived broadcast of Janet met her today is brought to you by Hartford, Lebanon, God is using hard for Lebanon to bring practical assistance and the gospel to the stricken refugee families in Lebanon for a gift of $116 you can give a child in his family survival essentials for four months and the hope of Jesus Christ which lasts forever.

Call now 888-247-5499 888-247-5499 there's a banner to live for today and here's your host Joe when we talk about spiritual warfare. We are talking about a battle for truth we heard it described that way before, because that's what the Bible actually teaches. Jim Osman is with us truth or territory. A biblical approach to spiritual warfare is our topic this hour. The name of his book as well. So Jim, you made a really good point that while some people will focus a lot on binding rebuking the devil in spiritual mapping and all these kinds of convoluted spiritual warfare techniques. Too many Christians today were professing Christians can't even define the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not understanding that it isn't Satan were called to defeat. We are to stand in the evil day is Ephesians 6 says but we have three enemies, we have the enemy of the devil. We have the enemy of the flashing of the enemy of the world speak to that issue a little bit, especially you mentioned about our sin nature and how that is always with us, even as born-again Christians we understand we will continue to send until were finally with Christ. How do we deal with the world what you do about the world in regard to spiritual warfare. How does that tie in the world is system of thinking that we got out and so you have that description in first John chapter 2, the lust of flesh, lust of the pride of life we lost. After that that the world system. That way of thinking that causes us to long for everything and desire everything that Lisa got out and that the heat everything that is righteous and holy good and true. There is a system of thinking that the world has adopted, and Satan uses that to draw stamps were assumed I would make the argument that the church today is becoming more and more worldly all the time. We think like a worldly act like the world we run our churches like the world we look almost indistinguishable from the world and and so there is this world system out there the way of thinking, believes, got out that Satan uses himself to system entirely new system. It's his creation and he uses it to deceive us in the blind assent to lure us into inactivity and untruthfulness in her own Christian lives and it that world is appealing to our flesh which is inside of us. So we have two external enemies the devil and the world system.

There are external to us and both of the devil uses the world system to appeal to our flesh so they work in concert against us all the time, and Satan is the defeated enemy, but the world system continually pumps out his lies and as Christians we are not discerning and grounded in the truth and understand the word of God and understand a bit but have a biblical worldview.

We begin to adopt the way of thinking that is very worldly and many Christians look at some of the charismatic circles in which these practices of spiritual warfare that I critique and that I've been talking about here.

Find a home, so circles are often very worldly you look at the churches and they are awash affluence and they appeal to the lust of the flashing and the prosperity gospel is awash in this you look at TBN that is a worldly system that is just like the world but it is worldly worldliness and greed and covetousness that is baptized in Christian lingo people stand up there and am million dollars to find a million-dollar plan to talk about her finding the devil and casting about rebuking them on the side and that side and yet there is worldly as any world going out there that does not profess to know Christ at all. And it's interesting you were talking about Bob Larson earlier, and people might remember Bob Larson used to do a talk show nice to listen to it. Back in the day and he was seated some really good stuff to say he was very good on the call Tim good on a lot of different issues and the next thing you know he's turning up with a like a pre-scholar and doing exorcisms for living and you wonder how much of his much of this, not him. In particular, but some of these others that is mentioned from TBN and prosperity gospel types to this is really in your opinion, kind of a love of personal power, a lot of excitement look at me. I can bind the devil and I can teach you how to bind the devil the opposite spirit of what were to be as Christians, which is to be humble and less of me more of Christ. It seems to be antithetical to what the Bible teaches about our attitude in our posture as Christians additional element that obviously you get a guy on television or YouTube without theirbidding on demonically and demonic people and holding up the cross and throwing holy water on the yelling and screaming back at somebody was responded to them in a guttural voice that sells him enough sensationalism and people think about spiritual warfare I can get my money to that there is a sensational element to that that is not present when somebody like me to stand up and says hey you you need to read your Bible and be discerning and and know the truth and be grounded in the truth and put to death the deeds of the flesh and and be well grounded in the Christian worldview and Guam share the gospel.

That's not sensational enough. Not that doesn't appeal to the lust of the flesh and the pride of life. It doesn't make one look like a grand teacher were a real spiritual warrior whereas doing the other things that that are sensational like that. Certainly appeal to that worldly mindset that most Christians have bought into yeah that's right. Can you speak to this issue. Jim, because I'm sure there are a lot of listeners who have questions about things like exorcisms and things like modern day demon possession are people possessed by demons today. Is it possible for Christians to be demon possessed or to be demonized. Sometimes people will draw that distinction.

What do you make of modern day demons, and the way they work in the world do you believe that people can be demon possessed in our own day, and if so what is a Christian to do about that. Certainly believe that Chris possessed today. I do not believe Christians can be demon possessed and there is a distinction here between demon possession and demon influence the filmmaker in just a second, but non-Christians are certainly subject to demon possession and I think that demons do possess people today that I've no reason to believe that they don't. My friend Justin peters would say that the things that there are certain people within the workplace movement toward demon possessed, and that is been in the presence of some of them that he would submit that does not demon possessed. I don't know what the session looks like. I think an unbeliever certainly can be demon possessed. No Christian cannot be demon possessed. Because greater is he who dwells in us than he was in the world. That is, the devil, so when you are a Christian you are transferred out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light.

You are redeemed, you're given a new nature. The Spirit of God dwells in you conceals you and there is no way that a Christian can possess a Christian to be demon possessed, possessed by a demon amount. There are people who believe that a Christian can be possessed by demon they would say that the answer that is in exorcisms that Christian need to be exercised about demon before they can progress in holiness and sanctification and and really have a victorious Christian life.

They blame Sam in the life of a believer on demon possession and I say no send in the life of Liebert's again we come back to the flesh.

It's the result of walking in the flesh and not walking spirit of the answer for a Christian to struggles with sin is not an exorcism. The answers to mortify your flesh and understand what the process of sanctification should look like that when we are progressing holiness and walking with the Lord. We put to death the deeds of the flesh, and we say no to them and we yield our members as instruments of righteousness, so that we can walk in holiness. That is the answer for the Christian know what we do with the Christian people who say that they exercise to demon out of the Christian and and there are certainly instances where people who have who are allegedly saved manifest. These symptoms were these expressions that seem to comport with demon possession and I would say that in that case, you have one of a couple things that are going on either that person thinks they're Christian and they're not been fed a false gospel default convert and I would not rule that out any instance did not understood the gospel but not really repented.

They're not truly born again. They think they are and so they arc could be then genuinely demon possessed or they are truly a Christian who has believed a lie demon possessed was given over them themselves.

The mind and the body to the slide to such a degree that it demon is all pressing them or even manipulating them from the outside. And those are good to see it themselves or they have been deceived that they can be possessed when in fact they cannot send.

That is how I would explain alleged Christian who manifest demon possession demon possession symptoms do you believe it is a difficult practice for a Christian to exercise or whatever name you want to give to at somebody who he believes is demon possessed.

Is that a legitimate biblical thing to do. No I don't and my argument for that would be best that in the New Testament, Jesus and the apostles who exercise demons in the Gospels and in the book of acts, and I would challenge your listeners that if you want to you if you want to really study up on this.

Just read the Gospels and the book of acts and look for every example of an exorcism in the gospel in the book of acts, and you will find that exorcisms are classified as signs and wonders akin to and in the same passages with healings and resurrections from the desk is the sign having the ability to find it was a demonstration in the case of Jesus that he was the Messiah.

In the case of the apostles with the spokesman for the Messiah right where you hold on right there.

Jim, I'm so sorry, gotta run to another break truth or territory about from Pastor Jim Osman will come back right after this.

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A biblical approach to spiritual warfare. We are talking about exorcisms and demon possession Jim before we went to that last break and you are making the point that it is not appropriate to do exorcisms now because this sign of exorcism there. When you read the Gospels and you read acts was something that Christ did and the apostles did. It's not something we do, so that the natural question I would think from some listeners would be will what do you do if you're Christian you come across somebody who appears to be demon possessed.

What's the part of the appropriate response to that that is the gospel. There is nothing in Scripture that suggest that you need exercise of human before preaching the gospel to them. A demon possessed person is no more lost than somebody who is absolutely moral but still has rejected the gospel. There just as lost there just as blinded.

They're just as dead in the trespasses and sins of somebody who has never heard the gospel so the gospel is the power of God under salvation at the moment that a person believes, and they repent of their center trust Christ for salvation is work on the cross. They are translated from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light there indwelt by the spirit of God to become a child of God are protected and they are sealed by him everlastingly so there is no need for an exorcism to deliver somebody from a demon when all that is needed is the proclamation of the gospel and when we say that we need something else to make the gospel effective. We are saying that the gospel itself is not sufficient to that And I would argue that the gospel itself is the power of God in salvation and therefore what this person is a clear presentation of the gospel. This issue of naming demons.

Jim you here.

Sometimes people talking about the demon of alcoholism. The demon is sexual abuse.

The demon is this the demon of that the Bible doesn't talk about demons being names with certain sins doesn't know those things are called deeds of the flesh in Galatians chapter 5. We talk about the demon of lost the demon of the demon of infidelity. The demon of immorality of the demon about all the demon of tobacco demon of rage, the demon of anger. These things are the lust of the flesh, and again this is where Christians get mixed up and start blaming their sin on the wrong thing they need to look at their own flesh and save you sends me to be mortified. I need to put off the old man to put on the new man, created in Christ Jesus. And instead of thinking that they need some extra work done in the spiritual realm on their behalf to bring them victory like an exorcism or binding Satan or whatever it is they just look at the fact that this piece of the sins of the flesh and we just need more. Five flesh we need to kill it. When you stop sinning. We need to trust Christ when you walk in holiness and make this decision put off the old man put on the new man that is the answer for the sentence, not an exorcism of the demon that was named after the Simpson link. When Christians get the process of sanctification long.

Then again, they just been losing the battle to the flesh when they think that they're waging real spiritual warfare so that the manager struggle with my lust. I need to be extracted. Demon of lust exercised out of your why need to bind him or I need to rebuke him know that's not the answer you need to you need to crucify the flesh you need to… You need to die to what you need to fill it mortified. You need to choose righteousness instead and give your members assessments of righteousness shall become a slave of righteousness – the process of sanctification is not battling against the demons that create dissension of the sins are not created by demons are created by your flesh, and this is how Christians are losing the battle on one front while they think they're waging about another yeah that's so true that Citrix. It also looks a little bit to the outsider like that may be a way to evade responsibility for your flash your sinful flesh face hanging out the demon alcoholism what he can do. Man can't get rid of them. The devil made me do it. The devil made me to eights and the and the devil is involved, how would you describe the degree to which Satan is involved in attacking individual Christians. This sometimes comes up as well vary with each individual Christian. I think that the way that the devil perceives us is of course getting us to believe lies about herself, about our Lord about his word about the truth and he is actively involved in deceiving Christians in the thinking things that are not true. I think one of the ways that is is working today is deceiving us into thinking that our sin and the works of our flesh are actually have him to blame for those that we can actually blame him for the deception and so when we we we are losing the battle to the devil. When we buy into his life so he obviously is the deceiver we have to be on guard against him.

We have to understand is methods we have to understand is is lies. We have to know what they are think we have to be attuned to the spirit of the age and no what it is that that he is currently trying to deceive people about and be on guard against that and make sure that we are not living our lives according to the lives of one and that's really where the battle is to be waged and you made such a good point going back to Ephesians chapter 6 where it talks about standing you know you go to verse 13 therefore take up the full armor of God so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. Stand firm, therefore, having girded your loins with truth. The breast I righteousness etc. then you come to verse 17 and it talks about taking up the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God and many commentators have made the observation that that's the one piece of armor that is often said that's why the Bible is so important. Without this standard, and the authority of the word of God guiding us in in doing any kind of spiritual warfare were sunk because will will go to our imaginations or will make things up or will talk about extra-biblical revelation. Can you speak to that issue of the armor of God and the necessity of standing, not necessarily advancing and conquering the devil in your own flesh you have the word of God is essential to that because that is what informs our mind, and the truth so that we know what is true and we know what is not and and on educated Christian is a non-discerning Christian and undiscerning Christian cannot tell a lie from the truth so they're not going to be able to stand so that when the devil comes with his lies to do deceive us. They're gonna fall right into that trap you got have the word of God and be well versed in it and under good biblical preaching and teaching so that they can know the truth and no sound doctrine and therefore be able to pick out the laws of the Dublin and not fall prey to very important also. I know we don't have a lot of time left to Jim but I gotta get in all the questions as much as I can before you were out of time. But you know, there are also a lot of Christians who unfortunately will flirt with the occult a little bit here and there. You know I remember as a kid we would do these things at slumber parties, sometimes light as a feather, stiff as a board or play with the Ouija board or something like that. Very dangerous to do that. Very wrong to do that.

How much of that do you think is a big threat to the church of Jesus Christ just undone.

Knowing Christians undiscerning Christians flirting with the occult. You were warned about that. Possibly a Scripture in the Old Testament was a death penalty for people involved in doing that, that the spiritual realm is very real, and Christians need to take it seriously and we need to be on guard against any of those practices or any kind of communication with the local realm, or the spiritual realm the spiritual realm is real and our ability to communicate with it and get with us is very real. And the more Christians open themselves up to that were alleged Christians are called up that the more they open themselves up to lives of deception and demonic influence in and they need to be. I wouldn't say they need to be careful about it. They need to just do it. All you can do it in a careful way. Now it's just you just you and you not involved in note type type of necromancy.

No type of communication with the spiritual realm Ouija boards. Carol cards communication with the dead. All of that stuff is absolutely demonic and dangerous though it is and I came across this quote by C. Peter Wegner and this kinda goes into your part of the book where you talk about empirical evidence.

You know that this methodology where you gather data from observations and experiences in order to talk about spiritual warfare. He wrote that certain people such as shamans, which doctors practitioners of Eastern religions, New Age gurus or professors of the occult on university faculties are examples of the kind of people who may have much more extensive knowledge of the spirit world than most Christians have lost guess you could take that. Either way, but certainly were not to draw from the shaman next door to figure out how to deal with the supernatural world involving the devil. The Bible is enough there again to see Peter Wegner showing that he does not believe in the sufficiency of Scripture that he would even suggest that any knowledge of any and any knowledge gained from almost any source is reliable information about the scriptural and we can learn from all of the sources and we can't learn from both sources both sources or sources conception. Why would you trust him to give you reliable information about what is true or not true. That's right. What wrapping things up. Jim, what would you say would be your best advice to the church and to individual Christians, listening about waging spiritual warfare. The way that God wants us to.

We need to be well grounded in the truth again.

It just comes back to having our minds educated with what is true and being clear and discerning on those issues, then we need to be equipped in order to defend the truth we should be every one of us in some measure a mini apologist, and a minute many preacher of the truth. We need to be well-versed in what the gospel is, we can share it. We need to be well-versed in what sound doctrine of sound theology is sound. We can interpret Scripture well and rightly and accurately, and be able to get to every man a reason for the hope that is within us and that can only come when we know the truth so well said a great book by the way, Jim.

I just love the book truth or territory.

A biblical approach to spiritual warfare. Pastor Jim Osman from cooking Community Church really good to have you here, Jim. I appreciate all your biblical insight and I know the listeners do to thank you again for being with us.

Thank you very much I appreciate it all right. God bless you and thank you for joining us and Janet met for today. It's always a blessing to have you here. Hope you'll join us next time. Take care this our team for today is to impart my heart from Lebanon. Call 888-247-5499 to get desperate people help in the hope of the gospel meeting 247-5499


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