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J. Warner Wallace (Why Jesus Still Matters Today)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd
The Truth Network Radio
October 4, 2021 4:30 am

J. Warner Wallace (Why Jesus Still Matters Today)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd

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October 4, 2021 4:30 am

Is it possible to uncover the truth about the Lord Jesus Christ using the same method a detective would employ on a real, missing-body murder case? Cold-case homicide detective and popular Christian speaker J. Warner Wallace shares the investigative strategy he uses to show why Jesus Christ was the singular most important person in human history. His book is called, "Person of Interest: Why Jesus Still Matters in a World that Rejects the Bible." That's next time on Monday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by the Jesus music.

The new documentary from Lions gate and the creators of I can only imagine featuring interviews with many artists from contemporary Christian music. The Jesus music only in theaters. More information is available at the Jesus music.movie in reference to our confidence is in Christ alone, I sort of know again if you ever follow any true crime stories, whether the news or in books written about famous cases. You no doubt have heard the term person of interest. Now this refers to somebody who hasn't been arrested or charged with any offense, but is an object of special attention by law enforcement as they are investigating a crime. So in a missing person murder case. For example, you have nobody you have no crime scene, but you might have one significant person who emerges as the person of interest, not what you were to use the same methodology a detective would employ that kind of a case and apply it to Jesus Christ to discover the truth about his claim to be God, what would you learn about who he is.

If you could news the Bible and what would that investigation yields working to tackle all of that today with my next guest, Jay Warner Wallace. He is a cold case homicide detective, a popular speaker and author and he is out with a good another great new book about the subject that were to discuss. It's called Person of Interest why Jesus still matters in a world that rejects the Bible and Jim wonderful to welcome me back to the show. How are you doing are doing well, but Brad never looked at talking to you particularly delegate all your so nice. While I always enjoy having you here. It's great for me to have you and great for the listeners to listen to the subject. This is an interesting phrase person of interest. I understand this kinda came about during the 96 Atlanta bombings with Richard Jewell. It was a first time people really kinda heard it Person of Interest what is the significance would you say of this term as your applying it to Jesus though. Well, you're right. You know the right you write it perfectly.

II could we have never used this expression in my criminal cases until the very end of my career that it wasn't really what about a potential suspect on the tell you a potential suspect. If I want you to know that I'm not anything), but really were talking about. Here's what I want of all these nobody murder cases where we get somebody who claims that his wife ran off and really she didn't know that he commences her family can visit his family committed to the initial detectives then years go by. The interim returns. We realize this is not a missing case.

This is a murder case. We now got no crime scene and no evidence because no one considered it and no one took photographs and now they remodeled the house and you know there's no way to go back and redo all of that so so how do you make a case to a jury.

You got no evidence for crimes what you just can't tell it on the day she went missing.

If this is a murder something explosive took place and that bomb was preceded by a long fuse that burn slowly up to the detonation after explodes. There is debris everywhere so we can make a case just from the fuse and the fallout.

Even if we got nothing on the day of the murder, and this is the same you could do with Jesus that I wrote a book local case Christian anywhere looked at all the evidence of the crime scene court" of the New Testament write the book that has all the eyewitness accounts, but if you were not willing to look at that.

They destroyed every single New Testament on the planet. You can still make the case for the historicity and deity of Jesus from just the fuse and the fall that is interesting.

Diagram is God in the book. People can see it when they pick up the box, but this idea that I think the way you said it was the more significant the event the more you need to go back and see the things that led up to it that apply. Would you say when you're looking at the history and the background of the times in which Jesus lived in some of these particular examples you give of his significance in various ways what what is the fuse in the fall as it pertains to Jesus. I first got interested in this night my wife was starting to wonder where we have our kids raised in some type of transcendent worldview and I wasn't raised that way for 18 years we've been together would never really even talked about God. So I will if you want raised this way.

But if you want to go to church so we went to a church and the pastor said the Jesus was the smartest man who ever lived.

Eventually, what got me started. I thought that that's true Wikipedia but allegedly the entire calendar when which we live, changed the oatmeal.the common era was initiated by something that happens in the first century.

Now, if Jesus is who he said he was right God in the flesh. When you expect there to be some use leading up to his expert outcome explosive appearance in history and when you expect that there be a huge ripple effect in history from his apparent death.

That's really like ours that is native to the rest. That's because I really hadn't studied the history leading up to Jesus and I certainly hadn't studied my own culture that I was living in was a result of Jesus. And so I think that trying to do in this book is to show that the beauty of Jesus is so clear in the history leading up to him that fuse that burns prophetically that abuse that burns culturally that pews that burns even in the heart of ancient people groups who are imagining God in one form of myth or another. All of this prepares the stage and sets a window of opportunity for the appearance of Jesus and then afterwards you got things like the visual arts and music and literature and education in science and world religions that are forever changed and actually shaped foundation only by the person of Jesus Christ of Jesus of Nazareth.

So I think that's the cost up that were trying to show, especially young people, you know that we got each of the schools public school you most of the Christian identity of the most important figures in history has pretty much been scrubbed from the history books. So it's a matter of us try to go back and say what do you realize that this is all founded on a Christian worldview initiated by Jesus of Nazareth and enacted by his followers. Most young people out to give any idea how know you're right about that. I mean you have it right there in your subtitle why Jesus still matters in a world that rejects the Bible and we do live in a world that rejects the Bible which creates all kinds of challenges that liability as it were, impact we decided to put together the book and the way you did because, for example, when you say the fuse had to be long leading up to Jesus's birth, we would say as Christians. When we look at the word of God, will it all began in the beginning when Jesus you know in the word was there at the beginning and God created the world, etc. we go from there with this skeptic, would you take a different approach when you're talking about the beginning of the fuse one third of what I think that's significant. The writings of the Old Testament writers prophecy and laying the foundation for the coming Messiah that overarching worldview.

How do we get here. Why is so messed up.

How do we fix it is established in the Old Testament, but that's only one aspect I would understand if you said that I wanted part of this cultural aspect of this is just if you study the advancement of the empires leading up to the appearance of the first century that that the common era to study what's happening culturally and governmentally, and in the technology that is changing in terms of writing in terms of the roads that are now available so that any idea when it finally appears in the first century has feet. They can move this all of that. If you study the spirituality. There's non-Christian right all of the ancient myths that are typically set. Well, Jesus is just a copycat myth borrowed from all the other mythical one of us just the opposite.

What if God is put in us as those pictures were designed in his image. All of us with that we know God or not, are still designed in the image of God, and we have in our expectations of God, by the way, the vast majority show this in the book. In terms of recurrent surveys. The vast majority of humans on planet Earth expect there and think there is a higher power of one nature or another that's ingrained in our DNA is that people are studying this now that is our default position is not easy as it some form. If we have these common expectations that manifest themselves in various ways in prior thoughts about God, which come out in the form of mythologies.

Why would we expect them God to show up and be the one most robust fulfillment of our expectations. That's exactly what Jesus is sleeping countries. These fuses leading up I tried to show in the book is very visual like I am a visual person and I asked Donovan to allow me to years to build the kinds of presentations I would use in front of the jury available to do that and then I took those presentations and created a book that's what is over 400 illustrations of just about 250 some odd pages because I'm trying to show you what the cutting I was sure jury and I think in the end, you can see from that user.

There's a small window of opportunity from about 29 BC to about 70 A.D., in which something explosive is about to happen and that just so happens to be with the common era starts that just happened to be right smack dab in the middle of that is the life of Jesus of Nazareth's walk right into you find it to be even more significant that is important and is crucial is the Bible is telling us who the son of God is that you can make a case by going outside of the Bible that backs it up. I mean that that that seems like all the more reason to go back to the word of God and say, while we really have something here. This really is God's word tonight I'll tell you that a lot of Christians you can get a sense of what you're trying to disregard God's word none of us don't do it all.

What I'm showing is that Jesus is so important.

It's not that he matters because the world is shaped. This way the world is shaped this way because he matters is just the office so that's what I'm saying is that so great working time and more on this day.

Warner Wallace joins us person of interest is his return after this seemed to ask yourself what you pay for healthcare. Are you single do you pay more than $199 a month.

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Do you have a family you pay more than $399 a month. Yes, you can serve the entire family with healthcare for only $399 a month with Liberty healthcare Liberty healthcare is a nonprofit ministry insurance so your money goes toward helping other members with their eligible medical expenses and in your time of need. Other members are there for you to, you can feel good knowing your part of a community of like-minded individuals sign up at any time and here their own doctor and hospital find out more@libertyhealthcare.org/JM T that's liberty shared.org/JMP call now 855-565-2561 that's 855-565-2561 or Liberty healthcare.org/JMP this is Janet Mefford for Bible league international aria lives in the Middle East and a radical Muslim family.

She accepted the invitation of a Christian friend to attend a weekly Bible study and receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. She took her Bible study booklet home hiding it in her room before her mother found it and gave it to her father. He severely beat young aria and called the authorities to report her as an infidel.

They took her to a remote cell where they assaulted her and the Christian friend before letting them go.

These two women didn't grow better.

They grew bold and together they seen hundreds come to Christ in the Middle East where Christians are urged to support new believers. You suddenly realize how critical it is Christians just assume God will they will help send God's word to believers like aria on Bible is only five dollars in a limited time. Match will double your gift, call 800 yes word 800 YDS WORD weathers and finally banner@janetmefford.com you're listening to Jonas Mefford, welcome back. So good to have you with us and great to have with us Jay Warner Wallace, author of person of interest.

He's a cold case homicide detective very popular speaker and author, and if you never heard him explain how he brings together his expertise inculcates homicide detective work with his understanding of Christ and Christianity in the Bible. I want to stay tuned. We were talking about this really unique approach. I think him that you put together in this book, which is backing up the word of God as you say, by looking at all of the reasons that Jesus matters throughout history.

One of the things and you touched on this before we went to the break was the timing of Jesus's arrival on earth.

And I think you talk about this a little bit in the book could this admin is significant.

If Jesus were born at any period in time because he was God didn't even show up at any time, but you address one of the things being the advance in writing technology that occurred at a very very important period of time which was when Jesus arrived. Why did that matter and what are you talking about their knowledge, why did you show up in the first century what it 2000 years earlier people would've known what was why did he show up last year. Use the technology we have today. Wallace will be honest I said this before, is controversial to some people but but honestly, if a miracle worker showed up in 2021, and use social media to get the word out. Would you believe it.

There are miracle workers. Right now, allegedly, who were on social media and most the time you're thinking about that CG is a computer graphics and trusting of the ICM video anymore.

I use the example to Tom Brady a couple of month ago at this video. One hour he was throwing a football into a football theater and he would hit the apex of the theater. It would to get back to him.

He would throw it again and again it was like my gosh with pinpoint accuracy only to find out later it was all the old hoax, so I'm a little honest about it, we we believe if it came out today, but it turns out that, as history evolved toward the first century as God shaped the history and the rise and fall of empires and technologies. A number of aspects of culture were approaching the first century simultaneously. For example, how you write you all. We have a pictograph like we used to have 3000 BC has some form of cuneiform pictographs. It would be very hard.

For example, to communicate the sermon on the mount because the complexity of the sermon and the lack of complexity in the pictographs you would have a hard time explaining what Jesus said in that sermon. Also, if you are writing in clay tablets would be working in pictographs uniforms best of them doesn't hold up very well, but as the language developed in the pure alphabet appears and then refine all the way to all of its bowels to the Etruscan alphabet that appears very few much later in history the alphabet that the Romans adopted as they conquered the known world. The advantage that alphabet by that time, they also have the advancement of papyrus so they could write the alphabet on something in the spoken Greek language they were using from the Greek culture that conquered and now you got a way to communicate a truth as a matter fact.

They even developed the roads the postal systems and there was a unique two year period of peace called the Pax Romana in which, for example, Paul could safely travel the roads that were now available to him to communicate the message using the letters he could send on papyrus with given languages that were now available. The technology was such that he could write in these languages and use them and send the message traveling on the road.

By the way the Romans, because that peace time effort gearing up for either creating rows that use future militias could travel on those militias had a hard time taking sharp turns, so they would go through things and over things rather than around things that meant they became some of the greatest tunnel and bridge builders.

The world is ever seen and this is one of those things you can use the expression. All roads lead to Rome. That's actually pretty true. Back in the day and they were able to connect to like the silk Road from Asia you had access now by way of roads to places that word beforehand were limited to the small Empire region in which you happen to live his Egyptian Empire or the Persian or whatever. So you see that that that there's an aspect in which the table is being set so that if someone appears with the world changing message that message. Even the Postal Service that was available by the time of the Roman Empire. Now you can communicate that message to the world. It's almost like somebody pointed out his was sent in the eyes just as Paul said, you amazing.

You know something else. You touched on, which was the Roman Empire. The growth of the Roman Empire. It was required in order for the person the message of Jesus to change the world. You talk about the size of the Roman Empire. The power of the Roman Empire, but I thought it was interesting. You also touched on its religious tolerance, which was not something that was common to talk about that a little bit and how significant that ends up being for Jesus appearing during that period of history you think about it most conquering nation when they would conquer a people group they would eradicate their ability to worship the gods have been worshiping our own set up an approach that conquered a region they would allow the local people groups to continue to worship their native pair gods or myths or whatever, but they also had to confidentially bend a knee to the Roman gods, but they would allow to embrace as a matter fact, you'll see that some of these other gods worshiped by conquered groups like the Greeks end up becoming renamed and he appeared in the Roman pantheon of gods so they haven't, sensibly signatures get started now look at some point if you're not going to bend your knee to the Roman god you can suffer persecution. But what was interesting about that that sense of of relative tolerance for religious groups that allowed Christianity to get a foothold to get started so by the time it's pretty obvious. This is another group that has to be dealt with by the Romans they got enough inertia in place to be able to continue to grow and you'll see that those first 300 years before the edict of Milan and the edict of Thessalonica.

The Romans were either dependent on the hamper.

Christians are to being persecuted roughly tolerated, ignored different levels of persecution they face sums some quite severe, but at least initially back to get there there there leg up and get going. Was because there was a sense in which AFI conquer groups you can hold on your God with sort that out later but for now you can continue to worship your own gods. It's interesting the other thing that comes to mind is, people will often say did Jesus have to die on the cross he was killed. Clearly he died for sins, he shed his blood, and that was very significant. That's how were saved and then rose again on the third day do you attach any significance.

Jim to crucifixion the crucifixion was a form of capital punishment during that period of time and that was also an important part of God's plan will I think I got on evidential reason for you know you're talking to me a more quirky evidential insight and what is interesting, it was usually do not trace is the prophetic Jewish prophecies, the coming of the Messiah, because if you look at the Mobic ever seen anybody do it this way, but I try to do is develop a timeline. What's the use one of the earliest prophecies. Most the time you read properties there group I went with the address of the property about you. This is about his birth. These are prophecies about his life. These are prophecies about his death. He went in group the prophecies based on when they were given will if you do that, it helps to answer the why did Jesus come when he came question. It turns out the what, when, why, how, where questions you get to who those questions are not robustly answered. Until you get pretty close to Malachi, and so you get a place were now I know I can answer those five questions and I have a clear idea of who is no reason why bring that up is because it seems to me that one of the earliest one of the midrange properties is that the Messiah will be pierced right snail test that prophecy is being made before crucifixion was a common way of executing criminals so so it shows me that the I guess and far in advance, the Messiah would be killed in this way by being pierced is interesting right actually can evidential marker because you don't even have a comical lay of the land where you know lots of people get crucified so I can guess this your actually describes up in the house and become the tradition yet and so I got to me gave it even more evidential value that's true so that if Jesus had died in an electric chair that would not that prophecy could not have been the Messiah had he not crucified thought he was stoned to death. Yes, priority was in some other way executed that if he was pierced for our transgressions.

That to me is something that is either really good guess now, but I separated prophecy coming clear."

So I have a separation for that. Evidentially I described in the book, so I am not somebody you says hey you know every single prophecy in the Old Testament is so clear you audit God it you you should figure it out. I actually picked up some of that is quote the same way some evidence that a crime scene is quote and I can only attach it to the to the bad guy after I meet him like a button on the floor. I mean, I don't even belong to the bag, but if I meet that guy and he actually has a button missing from his shirt will now that piece of kinda confusing cloaked evidence of the crimes it would ensure those valuable now it's very valuable and some prophecies are like that right work. If you read those at the time.

You might think this even about the Messiah. I don't know but afterwards it clearly describes Jesus select the button that's missing from his shirt.

It confirms Jesus after the fact and this distinction between clear" is important as we can read to the New Testament is a lot of what the up off the gospel writers are talking about is that evidence is more like a button right in like a fingerprint that identifies you from the beginning, but this might identify you after the fact that's what I think that, probably because it's interesting, I remember hearing this talk once is some Bible scholar was saying that he was very involved in messianic evangelism and he said I've never had an experience with a Jewish person who read Isaiah and I heard Isaiah and I would read that prophecy to them and then I would ask them who is that and they all say puts Jesus and then I would say but that's from Isaiah.

Some of them didn't even put the two and two together.

That kinda goes along with what you say about cloaked evidence after the fact, you realize all of that was Jesus in a way that you might not have if you were reading it as someone who is Jewish.

Just reading the Old Testament, but clear evidence. What would you point to some of the most clear evidence going back to prophecy in the Old Testament evidence that even Jewish people today would say yeah, that is, that was understood back then, we still understand it today as it is in messianic prophecy and I want to give them the benefit of the doubt so. So I would be willing to for sake of argument to limit my clear prophecies to just what they say is clear, messianic prophet, very interesting, but away they will take a look at a lot of prophecy from Isaiah, but not from Isaiah 53, some of this out. You really consistent about it now. I also talk about the difference. A reliable informant in a regular and formidable using trial and both can be helpful to your case but reliable informants are people who have already given you good information that actually stood the test of an investigation and maybe a trial prior now the second time they come to you. Your DVR deemed reliable because of their past information to you that there are some prophets who make prophecies about history actually come true not just mom and I hate to have to pause, but we do need to do so. J. Warner Wallace, business person of interest, the bucket will come back this archived broadcast of Janet today is brought to you by the Jesus music. The new documentary from Lions gate and the creators of I can only imagine featuring interviews with many artists from contemporary Christian music. The Jesus music only in theaters. More information is available at the Jesus music.movie theaters, your host Joe. It is always fascinating to go back and see why Jesus does matter in a world that rejects the Bible by looking not only the word of God but looking outside the Bible and were exploring this whole subject today with Jay Warner Wallace called case homicide detective and Christian speaker and apologist's new book is person of interest. Now you are talking to them before we went to the break about this difference between clear evidence and cloaked evidence, particularly in reference to messianic prophecy and I had asked you what would be some examples of clear evidence you were discussing the concept of a reliable informant, and I wanted to let you finish explaining how that all plays into this yeah reliable informants article giving you accurate information prior to this next bit of information or giving you. And there are a number of these in the Old Testament, not every profit. For example, makes a prediction at all about history, but many do and it goes proper to make those kinds of predictions and then the history actually occurs right as they predicted it would occur will now they have to have a sense of reliability, a sense of stature that even exceeds those of you who haven't made predictions about history. Their number. These Isaiah is one of those Daniel is one of these. And so I look at those those those reliable informants. I think hey you, we should trust or should we salute and consider seriously what it is they have to say about the coming Messiah back for second you talked about what you know the thing clear." Evidence in there. That's a big difference. And so I tried to do in my investigation of this is number one.

Write down all of the prophecies in the order in which they occur, because there's a ton of these and you'll see at the earliest. Prophecies basically are pretty broad to the prophecies that there are 1400 BCE, and even even. For example, Moses and Joe both say things that we would consider that many scholars consider messianic weld up off the lead to the Messiah to be a human born of a woman okay what that much everybody is going to email. Now I have a descendent of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Judah and reconcile data and usually short right now. At that point, you have a hard time he was able to keep a filter. Prophecy is pretty much a lot of people to fill those prophecy perhaps, but now you get further and further in time that the list gets narrowed and you start to eliminate more potential candidates until finally he is the last one so we talk about thing clear."

Now I will list in the book. So for example if you look at the psalmist David Solomon ASAP. These are prophecies written between about 1060 in about 1015 BCE, you will find it only if you are very specific and can like a fingerprint would identify the.

The suspect before you ever meet him. He, for example, is called God's son and he is known for righteousness and executed without bones broken doesn't see decay and makes known the path of life.

I actually think that those I will list complete list with a complete and note so you can see exactly what I'm talking about where to find them, but you also see that period of time five times more prophecies that are usually identified in that period of time are cloaked then are clear that the kinds of prophecies that we yes once you identify the Messiah you bill to say. While this is all happening right in front of her height.

He manages all of this and I actually have a complete list of all the clear and clear. The whole point doing that though Janet if all you did was use just the clear prophecies from just a handful of of prophets who are reliable based on their prior accurate prediction of history you would still have enough information to recognize this is Jesus of Nazareth so ironic case to somebody who's maybe a skeptic of prophecy.

I limit myself to just those clear prophecies made by reliable informants want to take out you know this argument, and it's a real argument.

Jenna had a young man call me about two months ago who works at a major ministry here in Southern California and is deconstructing his faith in one of his biggest complaint was.

He said he believed that the authors of the New Testament had abused prophecy and and these claimant clear the messianic prophecies to the Jews at the time and he said I don't think it was that that's a valid way to use prophecy will know it is valid when the same way I would compare a button found at the crime scene to your shirt after the fact and it would identify you, you honestly want me to destroy all the cloaked evidence at a crime scene to catcher capture every piece. Photograph every piece collected every piece and make my case later with every piece in that chair hereto. That's a really good point that he talked to you. Your good person to talk to you. It's interesting when you see some of those mathematical computations on the likelihood of one person selling even a fraction of the Old Testament prophecies. It's hard to ignore that.

I know a lot of skeptics will turn and say why does discount the Bible just book a mess and I believe anything in it. Why would you treat the Bible is any like you would not treat any other book.

Just dismiss it out of hand without looking at what it's presenting. That would be hard to get around even if, as your friend was saying. I have some problems with what the New Testament authors did. You can't ignore the rest of those prophecies that's not even the way you would analyze evidence if you were doing detective work right all right and use leading up to Jesus and you want to even consider any of the prophecies of the Old Testament. No problem. Leave him out there still enough evidence used to tell you that something is clearly something did happen. Unify was the sailors no evidence from the history leading up to the first century will something happen in the first century that changed our calendars so I think it is again cumulative cases articulate it for a reason right like people asked what was the one thing the commission he was a murderer is typically one thing if there was one thing that would solve 35 years ago. One thing right, but there is no one thing you build these cases cumulatively on the basis of a large body of physical or or or circumstantial evidence that ultimately seems just too heavy to ignore. So I think that's what I want to blast me well. Can you help here. You learn about Jesus from history.

What do you have to 1/2 hours. I can't.

This is not a one piece kind of a deal.

This is a cumulative case and that's why try to illustrate in the book that way so want people to see yeah Jesus had amazing impact cumulatively on different aspects of culture and cumulatively those different aspects of culture point back to Jesus as history's most important person of interest, absolutely, I want to get into that in just a couple minutes but I wanted to ask you about your chapter on Jesus, a copycat Savior because some people say that the story of Jesus was just borrowed from the prior dying and rising Savior met semi-disprove that. Well, here's what I look like I went back and I read all of the myths that people typically used to say Jesus copy from these and identified. It took a while to do accurate research is helping on this because it kept on finding things out so I identify like 15 common attributes of ancient mythologies. And if you start to identify the just broadly because I'm a tell you that the common attribute.

For example, is the myth that the God appears in nature supernaturally unexpectedly in an unnatural way that could be popped out of the side of a mountain that could be. He was born of a fish that could meeting him out of the five another God number different ways. Now they are all very different, but the general principle is he comes in the world supernaturally will it turns out those are, common 15 expectations of ancient people groups and no mythology has more than about 10 somehow as few as six but you can see these patterns of common expectations. Then we get to Jesus of Nazareth, who is the only person in the history of persons who possesses all 15 attributes whatever expectations you had as an ancient God should be like this when you Paul says you know your all privileges here are silly. You are all pretty religious ice even terms and monuments, so I'm not God's here, but I'm here to tell you where you got right where he got wrong because we know the real go to school we saw him rise from the grave and he happens to possess all 15 attributes that everyone in the age any place on the planet was expecting that to me is, by the way, when the when the expected meets all the expectations of the expect her to have a tendency to get a better response and that's why you see that Christianity hits the ground and stuck it in the ground running. Why because Jesus is was CS Lewis would say he is God's myth, all of the others are human maps using the word myth to mean a falsehood. He's using the word myth to me a narrative about deity explaining the way we got here explain the world how God interacts in the world.

Lewis quite well.

It's that Jesus is God's myth that is grounded in what we call real things, whereas the myth that we see Jesus are the myths of humans in the minds of poets and thinkers just given what they see in the world around them and there is the difference so it's not as though these similarities somehow betray the fact that Jesus copied them. By the way, do you really think that people were trying to convince Jewish believers the Jesus of the Messiah going to copy from every pagan, Jewish tradition case, it will point it makes sense that Jesus is God incarnate in bodies the imagination and the thoughts as humans were created interesting work deposit for another break she Warner Wallace person of interest is the book will come back on Janet efforts serving as a volunteer on the Mercy ship's venture like no other. Julie serving on the largest nongovernmental hospital ship in the world, providing free care to some of the world's poorest people.

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There's a banner to click@janetmefford.com readers of I can only imagine comes a new documentary, Jesus music valid way my hometown and I saw the music for very Jesus you're listening to Joan at Milford today and wow this is gone so fast she Warner Wallace cold case homicide detective popular speaker and author book is person of interest why Jesus still matters in a world that rejects the Bible you can check out more@hiswebsitejaywarnerwallace.com so I want to get into this fascinating section of the book. It's all fascinating, Jim. It really is. But this impact that Jesus has had on culture is so wild when you get into all the detail that you put out in the buckets, just great. He dramatically affected literature want to talk about the books 1st. Can you talk about the fact that nearly twice as many books exist about Jesus is about is the second guideline which is Shakespeare that that's just incredible to see that regardless of what you a national current Congress library, Library of Congress worker, you just Google books. And you search for the untitled and places were Jesus of Nazareth is the primary featured subject matter. You will find that no one has been written about no historical figure for sure is ever been written about as much as Jesus of Nazareth, even other religious deities gods leaders all the stuff no one has been written about as much as is just.

It is not. I look to Google Google books because let's face it, that's a global whose even self written books all published books so these are the kinds of things. I think that art can show the depth to which he has been impeccable, and even that you might say what fictional characters popular enough, you might affect on impact, but interestingly if you would go back and look at all of the ancient manuscript in the first 300 years of the Empire. The first 300 years after the life of Jesus and just isolate the voices that are? The church fathers versus the voices who want to steal Jesus for their own purposes like the noncanonical gospels, and people don't like Jesus all at the Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Jews, anybody who's not a Christian, you will find there are more non-Christian voices recorded on ancient manuscripts and there are Christian voices who are saying something about the person of Jesus from just the non-Christian voices, you can reconstruct the story of Jesus in its entirety, so you I mean you could not eliminate the person of Jesus by simply destroying the New Testament Troy so much ancient sum payment ancient manuscripts and the record of so many books have been written throughout history. Even today about Jesus. So many screenplays. No one is the most popular, the most watched movie in the history of movies is still the Jesus and translated in the morgue languages than any other movie and seen by more eyeballs than any other movie you have a hard time erasing Jesus run history based on just the to destroy the New Testament. That's the kind of impact by what there are actually Christ figures Christ figures that are out there that are fictional characters written throughout history by artist bite bite bite writers who are including the elements and the characteristics of Jesus in their primary characters that we have a genre of literature, known as Christ figures in a lot of ways in which you cannot raise Jesus from the collective memory of writers because he so permeates all of history.

Very true.

I was thinking about John 2125 when it says now there are also many other things that Jesus did wherever one of them to be written.

I suppose the world itself could not contain the books that would be written wow while think of anymore books we would have if the stakes had been written that is astounding. How about music. Clearly we have so many hams we have so many Christian songs Christian meal references to Jesus in music, but it isn't just confined to him. This is it's it's popular music as well. Christian worldview, the world of things right. Start with David Jesus promising you want to. David saw the last supper. Paul tells us we should be singing hymns and spiritual songs and we continue to do that as a matter fact it all you had were they hymns sung by Christians in the first 300 years before becomes religion of the Empire, you can reconstruct the entire still have these hymns you can reconstruct the entire history of the entire story of Jesus plus the theology of Christianity. Just from hams, but you're right, I did a search of all the top artists in the last hundred years. Based on three secular databases that are out there about 150 artists all but who had sung a song about Jesus not only positive I like a Frank Zappa song I Jesus thinks you're a jerk, but the point is, people sing about Jesus. He inspired but that's not happening.

What there were a lot of religious figures that preceded Jesus Indra Buddha by Krishna dog Hinduism. You will not see anyone singing about those in the way that we are is not just Western music. It's that that that the space at Western music was imported to the entire world. By the way whatever music your singing if you think about it. If your singing harmonies. If you're singing using medical notation because a Christ follower created those things he had that impact on the history of music because think about where in the world else you go every weekend. People are on a stage singing to an audience that is pre-much Kristin them and that's why so much music comes out of the Christian vision it's it's fascinating and symphonies as well. You think of Handel's Messiah toboggan there so many composers who honor God in their music and it's just overwhelming to think and compile it all. This is interesting to you touch on the modern education revolution and that certainly cannot be discounted even in our own country.

When you go back to the Pilgrims and Puritans who originally settled our nation. Christianity was front and center in education. Ancient had it with the modern university that you have your mind right now where would the body of the students, and they train under a faculty of professors and eventually receive a diploma for their work. That idea is that of a Christian tradition that comes out of the monasteries and eventually the cathedral schools and then eventually the three first modern universities founded by Christ followers in Bologna, Paris and Oxford and even right now if you're ready to to Google the top 15 universities in the world by any metric you will find that they were founded by Christ followers even for no longer like Jesus, they were certainly founded for the purpose of educating about Jesus and other disciplines. Of course, and if you were to go to those campuses just did the campuses from the original buildings were they taught students, you will see the etchings, carvings, stained glass and inscriptions from which you can reconstruct the story of Jesus just from the 15 campuses of the top 15 universities in the world. I did that in the book is all the footnotes you can see where I got all the data. My point is you get to destroy 15 but more than that because the top 75 on the top hundred universities were all bounded by Christians to this is a globally okay so if you wanted to try to destroy Jesus yet to do a lot of the construction of universities as well because those were originally there for a very different purpose. Be interesting for you to present evidence over at St. Lake. This might be a little bit to hear the history of their own schools.

Fascinating, really.

All of this. Now we've denied here were standing on the shoulders of Christ.

In his history of which he initiated and pretending like he wasn't here, and that's why we say the things that I thought were most valuable to an atheist right visual arts, literature, music, education, science that's us a place to revere a degree in design a Masters degree in architecture before became a police officer and all of that stuff is utterly depend were using technology right now to record tilted to broadcast this right and eye-popping record stuff on TV all the time to put on her mirror podcast for this broadcast that stands on the shoulders of the science that preceded it in the fathers, the vast majority of fathers of all modern science were Christ followers. We just can't ignore our own history as a people group. The fact of it is is that is that young people need to recognize this and all of this, nobody in some obscure corner of the Roman Empire never move more than about 200 miles from the border town we was born in the nowhere tower. He was raised on family never read a letter to a nation never ruled an army sonnet never wrote a book, never had kids of his own was persecuted all over the country that eventually executed brutally and made a borrower grave. The barium that's the guy that nobody changes everything.

Now Ashley BLS. Of course he's not a person that all any of the God of the universe. If if the God of the universe, entered into his creation, he would have any impact the Jesus of Nazareth and that's why think that this kind impact need to be taught to work it and seen as what it is. It's an evidence for the deity of Jesus well said, and the unique histories, unique person of interest is Jesus.

As you say, and his appearance was the singular event that changed human history for those who are listening who may not know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior Jim how do you put all this together for that skeptic will teach all there is to know about Jesus right but to be honest, if you start to trust with what the gospel say about Jesus, you ought to trust what they say about you and for me I got to a place where I realize that Jesus was who he said he was, but I just have believed that I do not believe in, that's a different step is was until I started to examine what the New Testament said about me. I realize why he described me really pretty well. I am a finite fallen creature, have a good day. On occasion, but I'm not a morally perfect creature, not a morally perfect being, which God is so if I'm trying to be in God's presence. I look pretty dirty by comparison. Right like oil and water. How I unite these two things was what I learned about Jesus and the perfection of God that help me to understand my own perfection and need for a Savior. No one looks for that Savior until they first understand their own so I would encourage you to number one.

Realize who you so that when you see the God of the universe history. You'll recognize as a wonderful Savior, indeed, will the name of the book person of interest. J. Warner Wallace. You can check out more@hiswebsiteg1wallace.com always a pleasure to talk to Jim great book and it was wonderful to talk to. Thank you so much thanks and God bless thank you for being with us and Janet for today will see next is for today is promising in part by the new documentary Jesus music from Lions gate and the creators of I can only imagine featuring interviews with many artists from contemporary Christian music that Jesus music only in theaters now playing more information is available at the Jesus music.movie


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