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Russ Vought (CRT) Wesley Smith (Nature and Animal Rights)

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The Truth Network Radio
June 18, 2021 4:00 am

Russ Vought (CRT) Wesley Smith (Nature and Animal Rights)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd

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June 18, 2021 4:00 am

With Critical Race Theory poisoning young minds in our nation's K-12 schools, how can parents fight back and topple this state-sanctioned racism agenda? Russ Vought, former OMB director under President Trump and president of the Center for Renewing America, joins me to talk about it. Plus: Radical activists want to give "rights" to Florida's waterways and "personhood" to elephants via a New York legal case. We'll get an update from bioethics expert Wesley J. Smith on Friday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by pre-born for $140 you can provide ultrasounds to five women in crisis pregnancies.

Call now 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or Janet, our confidence is in Christ alone is sort fight back strongly against schools and school districts that are pushing critical race theory on children in the classroom just a few days ago more than 200 people gathered outside the Loudoun County Government Center in Leesburg, Virginia to pan the teaching of this state sanctioned racism in the schools curriculum, but of course it's a fight that more and more of us are gonna have to take on the local level. If we are to protect our children and give them a real solid pro American education. And if you're one of those parents facing this issue. There is now a great resource you can use to help you combat critical race theory in your local schools and also help you to reclaim your school board. It's a comprehensive toolkit from the center for renewing America called combating critical race theory in your community and it's also accompanied by the most thorough and robust local model legislation out there where you learn more about it from Russ about president of the Center for renewing America and he is also, of course, former director of the Office of Management and Budget under Pres. Trump so good to have you with us.

Russ welcome to make sure thing. The last file you issued that memo under Pres. Trump directing the federal agencies to stop using CRT in their training.

Now we have to worry about this indoctrination when we send our kids to school what you make of the proliferation of this un-American propaganda as you called it the result of a factor Arnold into our culture at a rapid speed were universities for decades now and so it's not that we don't dispute in the government, but that we see them in institutions like the school we feared an institution like our businesses were HR departments are forcing employees to have similar types of diversity and inclusion type event and why you those terms. Those are technical terms that are code for the types of teaching that critical race theory provide so this is a long time in the making of the American people getting smart to it. Thankfully we had a president that felt strongly about it with the claim last year but working in people across the country go to the microphone. The school board and begin to draw attention to this because they don't want their kids going to school and being told that there either oppressor or what race is because of the color of their skin. I'm sick of hearing it. I know a lot of parents are but were talking about critical race theory.

Sometimes there can be a little bit of rhetorical immuno maneuvering on the part of the people who are pushing it all. This is really critical race theory you spotted. If you're a parent you have a child in the public schools, and you're trying to find out what is being taught to your child.

How can you look at something in the curriculum or in a textbook and say, oh, there is a number critical race here more than anything is a paradigm of looking at the world that flows from a legal theory and intellectual movement spotted could never put the neon light around it (work critical race theory.

Here I am. It talks about diversity and inclusion talk about unconscious bias often critiques whiteness and under the banner of whiteness includes things like the rule of law Christianity the family all these things that are part and parcel of Western civilization and one of the reasons that this country is so great is because of the ordered liberty principles that we had for so long and it uses those who force conversations about equity. Equity is another buzzword administration.

You will hear constantly from Biden talking about every decision that they make will be through the prism of equity. What's different is not equality under law and fact, the reverse of the quality of the law equity is about taking anything of differentiation in the result of a policy or just by virtue of that and differences in society and thank you level those out using the force of government to do so to those of the things that the buzzwords that are toolkit provide parents and an activist could be able to when a teacher said you're like you're saying allowing County administrator saying this doesn't exist, it does exist back the former superintendent just came out that this paradigm has been used in the plan that we came forward with what it is. It is the buzzwords that that parents need to be aware of why I was looking through you got a list link on your website to a list of these buzz terms that people might encounter when they're looking at some of these curricula and some of them are really not what I would've predicted like social emotional learning.

That's something that's been in the schools for quite a while, but that's one of them antiracism.

I mean, that's kind of a odd thing to talk about. It's kind of sneaky because nobody wants to be racist or were antiracist. So when were looking at these kinds of things.

What you say to parents in terms of how you discover if your child is being taught this clearly if they bring home an assignment you should read it, but what kinds of tips you have in that regard. I think level to start On it from the top down perspective of the school board with parent groups are working with your your your students are near. To start inquiring for them to be cognizant of how the teacher is presenting the material because one of the things that the boat the educational theory of the laughter that pertained to critical race theory calls for is the teachers who believe strongly to basically peak through any curriculum to get at these concepts so the first part. Yes, we have to overtly say this is not will be teaching the second part of our effort will have to be to assess how it all in a world where the curriculum does not allow the indoctrination where the conversations that are being used to formulate the conversation anyway.

That will come back to may come sooner of the left feel like they're on the heel of the national debate that is happening to the rejected in some way the teacher can go back to appreciating it erases concepts that we do need unpack that because he knows that the buzzword that everyone would sign up for. But of course it definitionally needs discrimination. In this context so educating students to be on top of how howler teachers are presenting material and having a conversation with mom and dad at home. Yet now, is it worthwhile to go directly to the teacher or is the fact that the teacher teaching it indicative that it was okay by the principal. Should you pass over the teacher and just go to the principal to go to the superintendent, the school board. How do you proceed in that instance, I think that the judgment call based on that particular teacher me. You know it's never too late to see the light and so there I think are probably features that have been told this is what is expected of them and you know if they've been made aware of it and may have changed what they have dial it back or should I let him know that's what I was, the impact that I was having. That's one thing, but I do think that we will cover committed leftist teachers that know exactly what they're doing, you saw an example of this call in Oregon where one teacher told her fellow teachers that if you don't get on board with antiracism teaching were coming after you get fired so that your reasoning with that individual and so that's one that's good, you probably you have to elevated to administrator sooner rather than later probably widely do you think CRT is being taught. I mean sometimes it's a district by district revealing video shows up in the news Yosemite does a story somewhere locally and it goes national but how widespread do you think the teaching of critical race theory is in the K-12.

For example, years. I don't know how to answer that with precision, but I I think it pretty widespread by the reaction that people have seen it, which tells me it's not just isolated incidents but back the awareness that was brought to at the national level, combined with what people were seeing throughout the pandemic made many of them listening to them. Call combined with the fact that probably mom and dad in their employment had the indicators of this cultural movement themselves have led to the prevalence of of of the concern being raised so will have data on on the number of teachers of their workout who are teaching it, but we know that this is been a commitment from the left for some time and you we can to seize the day in the late hour while right, you know, one of the other things that a lot of parents are concerned about is the 1619 project and that is specifically getting into the public schools. What you do if some teacher is dim your teaching all that stuff to your little child in their coming home at all of this stuff is of great concern to parents across the country but you can fight back working to take a very short break respite with us will come back talking not combating critical race theory stay with us will fellow Christians are suffering in Africa. This is Janet Mefford cast aluminum ministers in Mozambique near the Indian Ocean. He's been beaten and jailed. Many times, not merely for what he believes but for how he lives out his faith he say Luma has been quietly and faithfully sharing the gospel with Muslims and many are coming to Christ, but extremists have assaulted luminal his family and many in his church, but they're not asking for an end to the persecution they face. Instead, they're praying for God's word to endure and persevere as new followers of Christ seen people being changed by reading the Scripture giving a Bible to somebody's greatest gift you can give somebody life through the ministry of Bible league international you can send God's word to a new believer in Africa. Five dollars sends one Bible $100 sends 20 call now 800 yes word that's 800 YE asked WORD or there's an open the floodgates Bibles for Africa banner to hi this is Janet effort here in need of a new healthcare program but you miss the open enrollment deadline in December.

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The other issue is once you figured out that critical race theory is being taught in the school what you do about it. How do you begin to try to correct the situation.

If it's widespread maybe get some other parents on board with you organizing I know is very important. How do you go about doing that good old fashion activism right away acquired what I called Velcro and go know the issues you possibly can that with the school. Meant to give you the ability go into a school board meeting with the ground firmly beneath your feet.

The next part is grow your network grow your platforms get your message out using different tools that are out there. Twitter, Facebook, to be able to get your message out and bring in people who can help you be a force multiplier and then just go out there and lead in what I'm excited about is the extent to which the people reading are counting the cost and the consequences of reading and are doing it anyway. They know whether working with these individuals they know whether them as a parent or as a school board member themselves. They're going to be called racist and to count the cost and go into the fire. Anyways is been inspiring to work with these individuals and so I think the first part is providing accountability at the school board level making sure people are aware, the school board members identify whether you have anyone that can be on your side either of the school board level of the county commissioner level and you may have someone there that can be educated your way.

If you don't have someone then you know look for the procedures to be able to call them or replace them in an upcoming election. That's the kind of thing that would provide links in this tool. To be able to get educated on how and when that would be effective in your seeing efforts like that across the country when someone in Dallas seen one in Loudoun County and I think that will only continue as parents unilaterally say I'm I'm on the on the anti-CRT ticket as we continue to root out all that's great.

And of course they will get some objections. Parents will no doubt if they try to go up against the school border against school officials who are pro CRT.

One of the things that you've mentioned in your resource is that sometimes parents are being told by school officials. You just don't understand you. You have misunderstood what were trying to do. Again, this is about making your case, but a bit this other objection where they say teachers have a right to teach critical race theory because if you banner than your banning teachers from teaching history we know about the 1619 project and that's being taught is history. Even though it's false. How do you respond is apparent to that objection. If it arises durable regarding paragraph number one.

The issue of know what it is so very the left is in the process. Right now I'm just rambling what it means and trying to differentiate between many of the individuals who even to some extent they don't believe the defining police campaign. The minute people started to wake up to it. They change how they talk about and so they are in the process of doing that. Interestingly enough, Barack Obama, when he came out rolled him out talk about it. Didn't say it was a real question. The Republicans making an issue in the priority of it so that the first part of the second part is what you're saying with regard to the First Amendment argument and that is is is is fairly simple and that is we have. There is no bar under any of these bills to teaching about our history.

The problem that we have a country. Our founding our Civil War, Jim Crow segregation and how as a country we have, over time, lived up to the ideals that were expressed in the Declaration of Independence, but will critical race theory is it insert an unimproved assumption that America rule of law country is a white supremacist regime that is oppressive to prove they just asserted in math indoctrination and that's what it's not in the in in the college context.

You can even have a conversation about what. What you can't do is get people in the room and say this is fact in the same way that it is fact that the earth is round or so against racism.

They should be against this kind of approach because it's just racism against whites and IQ hear the stories anecdotally of little kids being told that their white supremacists and coming home in tears little kids like second third grade. This is just evil. What they're doing to our kids. Evil and it is fundamentally different than the American idea and I think that's why it is such an important moment for us is that we have an opportunity of moving to go backwards and were not born backward low-level forward and continue to live up to our ideal and the challenges that I think the left is trying to play into people's emotions who are who have every desire in the world to live in a colorblind society and live up to those I deal in that emotional connection could not will be on the side of racism that has led them to make some advantages because they like you said earlier they call it antiracism but then they define antiracism as any effort to yell discriminate and remove disparities in a way that would undermine institutions and to do it with reckless abandon. And I think that will repost just yet.

Now I know you're also putting out model legislation designed for school boards to stop the teaching of critical race theory and that the first test case is coming up. Can you update us on where that stands and what your legislation is all about.

Sure we got model of inflation. As you mentioned school board member. We are working with a couple of school board members behind her she better not hurt where you'll see that sir, will make it quite a bit of progress and I think will continue to see people stepping forward and leaving as best they possibly can. I would run a quote form with some folks today getting them ready for their first school board meeting. If if your school board member out there please contact us.

We want to get on the phone with you and and make sure we do everything we can to get you ready.

That would be great. Should they just go to your website exactly go to our website contactors and will be on the phone with gift excellence now for those parents who say my school board is hopeless.

They all seem to be supporters of critical race theory. I think I'm gonna run for the school board. What kind of help or assistance, can those parents get in that regard. People horsing around even know the first thing about running for the school board.

How do I do this I can get elected yet. We departed tool into that and I think that part of you working as part of a network that you built figure out how you put together a campaign.

The laws in place that you need to be aware of where you go to find those answers how you put together your platform, which in this regard will be fairly simple, but we begin to walk you through from a leadership capacity how you can do that and then there's other groups out there that are are being set up literally to be able to help fund the overtaking of certain school boards. My colleague and friends are Ryan.the guy out there and set up a pack along the lines of that very thing so important work and you know that that's why we have a coalition doing all this will do you think this is a winnable war because there are a lot of people who are really fired up about it and a lot of people getting organized and fighting back. Now you got this great resource.

Do you look upon.

This is something that the American people can ultimately win against the critical race theory will eventually be driven out or at least in most of the schools do do feel optimistic. I am very optimistic. I think if you were just great whole of the you would you would find that this is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 thirtieths. You and we only been educating on it for about 6 to 8 months right now and will the left has been at this for about 100 years in terms of pushing critical theories from the universities they been at critical race theory. Specifically since the 1980s and so they have been hard at work with a tireless minority.

We have a potential tireless super majority out there to do this work. And as we get going as we get the knowledge base. The activist-based I think will be able to turn this this this country around and I think that this is the great revealer what the left worldview looks like and so I think we will. In the process.

Recruit many many conservatives to these and other issues. A little while, I'm glad. How might they pay that. I know this is just conjecture, but if they really are under the gun. Critical race theory left, never gives up. They just retool and rebrand and all that sort of thing.

But do you have any idea as to how they might try to pave it if they really do begin to lose the narrative and lose the support of the majority of Americans.

The next thing that parents might have to look out for you.

I think that they will ramble on. We, there is no not happening. I think that they will. They might even get to the point where they they say no known pushing critical race theory anymore. This is a discredited concept but then go back to pushing the very same paradigm built they will not back away from the paradigm of viewing things through the prism of race and and is essential to their cultural Marxist strategy, but I can easily see them denouncing the term critical race theory and potentially a scholar that they feel have gotten over their skis. I think that's what they were doing and pivot back. Not unlike what you're seeing in the defined police campaign. That's good. I mean what we need to do is go back to e pluribus unum that were a nation that has always had the ideals of coming together as Americans have the same opportunities the same rights and an understanding that we are united under that we shouldn't be stoking racial division way.

We should have solved that a long time ago and I think this is a wonderful resource rest really is called combating critical race theory in your community. You can find it by going to America and if you have a problem in your local school district or think that you might. This is going to be a resource that will be very very helpful for you again go to America Rust Belt from Center for renewing America.

Russ just an honor.

Thank you so much for being here for what you're doing you much appreciated you bad. Take care you listening to Janet and effort to this archived broadcast of Janet for today is brought to you by pre-born for $140 you can provide ultrasounds to five women in crisis pregnancies. Call now 855402, baby.

That's 855-402-2229 or live for today, here's your host Joe well here are some strange questions will Florida's waterways soon be granted their owns national rights is the New York Court of Appeals about to decide that elephants are entitled to fundamental legal rights. These are actually some of the questions that are on the table in the United States today, and it's the latest in the war on human exceptionalism. The applications of course are more than a little disturbing working to get some of the details on it now from bioethics expert and attorney Wesley J.

Smith, chair and senior fellow at the Discovery Institute center on human exceptionalism is also a contributor to National review and the author of more than 14 books and today will get the latest on this antihuman activism in America which he's been covering very faithfully Wesley welcome back to the show.

It's wonderful to talk to you again and again agreed to speak with your nurse thank you so much. Let's talk about Florida first. I guess that there's a lot of water in Florida that that could be a real mess. If these activists were able to get rights declared for waterways what's going on. Being circulated in Florida and I hope you have any floral dress or you do that, the people of their half will refuse to sign it to have a constitutional amendment of the Florida Constitution, declaring that water has right called the Florida Clean Water Act but don't be fooled by the title.

It isn't about clean water about how little be sold effectually about making sure that the geological features have rights like humans and let me read to your listeners by picking Osher right when you read you what the legislation would do about this is a quote the Everglades Florida Springs, the Indian River Lagoon and the names a bunch of other walk waterways and them and all other Florida waters have a right to clean water, meaning if not the, we have a right to clean water.

The water has a right to clean once and that right shall include the rights of those waters to live low be free from pollution and maintain a healthy ethical system.

Now what does that mean that means if there is an underground stream. For example, because they're included that if you needed to divert that stream because of some kind of a project, you would be violating the rights of that underground stream if you wanted to put up a flood control project you could possibly be charged with violating the rights of the of the waterway to flow in a natural state. If you set up a Gok if you do boating, which can cause some pollution you could run afoul of of this load of this proposed amendment and people say well that'll never happen while it's already happened. We have had six River from this world, declared to be part essentially person, but given rights to glaciers. This is part of this was a small part of a larger movement known as nature rights or the rights of nature that seek to have all of nature have rights coequal with people in the film actually a radical environmentalist anti-human approach to stopping on human thriving in a sort of a neo-earth worship. It's really weird yeah it is the next thing your laughter will help you know people could live a good walk of the river. Sue well here's here's what else the proposal says quote any rows with nongovernmental organization or government apathy of the state shall have standing to enforce and defend the rights secured by the section in any court possessing proper jurisdiction. In other words, what this proposal would do called all of these nature rights proposals that pop up is a lot anyone to sue on behalf of nature making nature of the party in the lawsuit, but it's actually the radical environmentalist bringing the suit that you can imagine what that's going to do the development in Florida which has waterways which is a huge part of the attraction of that state. If if a corporation, or if it looks even play a liability insurance company knows that any person in Florida consume the say that a project involving water violates the rights of the water. You're not going to get liability insurance because you know the will be a lawsuit will always be somebody who doesn't want what's being done and you're not going to have corporations being willing to invest their money in setting up these various projects if they know that someone thinks that the waterways have more important rights them them the ability to conduct the business can bring a lawsuit, not to mention law.

Fair you know you better give us the money here were going to sue on behalf of nature proud of you. Now that goes sure that you know what they're talking about that the water has the right, in their view, to be free from pollution that's such an over-the-top utopian view. I mean, what does that mean like a some guys outvote boating one day on Pensacola Bay and he dumps a beer overboard. Now somebody could sue on behalf of the ocean. But one thing got going there. We wouldn't be a narrow focus. It would become a very broad focus that it would some of this would depend on how the courts interpreted it but the point is right now if I get proper permits. I live in Florida and I get proper permits to set up dock on a river next to my house you know it was one of the proper permits applied.

But if if this measure passed.

Somebody could think well that's violating the blue and I pollution the right to flow, and so forth and you could end up having me be sued to put in that box. What am I going to do about going to put in the talk I'm not going to risk it. That's true. You pointed out. I think the waters wouldn't have any duties that wonder this constitutional amendment. So doesn't that shouldn't it anyway. Naturally lead people to the obvious conclusion that entities that can't perform duties.

Also don't deserve right to me doesn't it can undo the argument but you probably get around. This is true whether nature rights, water rights, or animal rights, and again animal-rights is different than animal welfare and animal rights humans and animals are deemed equal. It's an ideology and they will say that yes animals don't You know they can't not competent to perform duties but some humans are either like to develop people with developmental disabilities are people who might be in a calm or something and and since not all humans have duties then we can treat nature we can treat animals the same way we treat developmentally dishabille disabled people in terms of court people with developmental disabilities have rights, you know, the right not to be experimented on. Just as an example the right to life once you're born just as an example, the sophistry about the fallacy of that is that it is human nature to be able to bear responsibility for part of human exceptionalism. We are right errors, but we are also we also have duties. We have duties to each other.

We have duties to our posterity.

We have duties to animals to treat them humanely. We have duties distort the earth in a proper way so that we can benefit from natural resource, but we also should keep a clean plant. In fact, there is a lot of effort that goes into making sure that when we do use the earth that if there is pollution is cleaned up or if we have to look for a dual minor something is remediation but once a minute to restore the natural world at the proper thing but but in terms of animals and nature. None of them have duties because that's not in their inherent nature word. Isn't it a human being and will will express itself unless there is an injury that impedes or immaturity that impedes it, but it is part of the human essence is not part of the efforts of animals and it is not certainly part of geological features which are not plenty now that's a great point to developmentally disabled who can't make a decision.

For example, that's the exception not the norm is a place to waterways, none of which have any ability to perform any duties activist we know behind this particular move in Florida there is a group called video for the rights of nature network and if people go I wrote a piece on Milford national reviewer people want to go to Nash review and look under the corner under my my archive Wesley J Smith or do a Google sure search was for Jay Smith, swap rights, constitutional amendment pushed in Florida it'll pop up and and I have a link to their website is also a another organization that actually pushes nature rights in a more general sense of a larger broader sense and they had tremendous success. Ecuador and Bolivia have rights of nature laws in there and there one in the Constitution one by law, a banking moon is actually the former Sec. Gen. of the United Nations supports nature rights with really stunning is that the science journal science, which is the most prestigious science journal in the world is actually come out in favor of nature) published an article strongly in favor of it, which shows you and this is perhaps the initial story for another show. With all of these major scientific and medical and biological journals of gone completely, while completely hard left wing air pushing these agendas like you wouldn't believe sometimes that the expenses are five to that is crazy were to pause for a short break coming back with Wesley J Smith. I was also I get into this issue of elephants as persons will come back after the stay with us. After taking the morning-after pill. This mom immediately felt sick and nauseated as she tried to end her pregnancy while searching for medical care.

She found a pre-born center where she hoped to rule out that she was pregnant after hanging the baby's heartbeat and guidance that will be done seven months pregnant. Now, I think that every day for miracle freeborn centers are the largest providers of free ultrasounds in America introducing Monsen crisis to the life growing inside of them and sharing the gospel in action when a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and here's the heartbeat shall choose life 80% of the time when you join pre-born in the cause for life for $140 you can sponsor five ultrasounds and help rescue five babies lives to donate, call 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229. All gifts are tax-deductible. 855402 baby or there's a pre-born banner to hi this is Janet never did you miss the deadline to sign up for healthcare program at the end of 2020. If so, I have good news special enrollment period is taking place now through August 15, meaning that if you're looking to enroll in the new healthcare program for 2021 you can do so without the need for a qualifying event more than 200,000 Americans trust liberty health share for their healthcare needs. Liberty healthcare is a nonprofit healthcare sharing ministry that offers affordable healthcare sharing programs starting as low as $199 per month.

Liberty healthcare gives you the ability to choose any doctor or hospital across the nation. Memberships are for individuals, couples and families offering a variety of options to best in your medical needs.

Discover more about the power of today for more information call 855-585-4237 855-585-4237 liberty you're listening to Milford today and welcome back Wesley J Smith is joining us attorney bioethics experts and also Sharon Senior fellow at the Discovery Institute center on human exceptionalism writing over national review about some great stuff concerning the threats to human exceptionalism, not the least of which was what we were discussing before the break in Florida where there trying to get a constitutional amendment passed and get signatures for this thing to give rights to waterways. Now your advising people. Wesley, are you not don't sign it if you if you see a petition don't sign it that people got amount of pushback against this absolutely and I'm also opening the governor I'm Sen. afar, Marco Rubio, editor of Scott who are to go to senators for Florida. They need to come out and say wait a second. Don't sign this and realize that Gov. defendants previously, there was a Orange County Florida had actually passed the waterways rights ordinance for four or Orange County. I am the state of Florida saw this coming and passed a law saying that nature doesn't have rights in the state and the constitutional amendment is a way to circumvent that statute and somebody's already sued under that ordinance in Orange County and that the lawsuit is pending.

It should be thrown out because of the preemption issue, but you never know you never know. But if somebody's got to come out against any governor in the US would seem it would be wrong to Santa and I think you need to take a good therapy by finding the law. I think he needs to take this head on until people do not find this going to pretend that the bar clean water. It's not. That's excellent let's turn to the animal-rights updates the greatest of rats is animals standing as you pointed out in your peace and national review over this issue that the High Court of New York is about to rule whether elephants are persons. I know we've seen these chimp stories before, but what's the latest why elephants what's going on. Well, the group called the non-human rights project and there, of course, findable would doing any Internet search and they believe that they can use state laws and common law to create rights for animals is called breaking the species barrier and the first animals were going for our the what we sometimes called the higher mammals, those with the greatest intelligence, chimpanzees, elephants, dolphins, this kind of thing but eventually would apply to all animals because under animal-rights ideology. It is your mental capacities account of the ability to feel pain and if you can feel pain them and suffer them.

Your equal to human beings. So just as an example of a human being can feel pain. A cow can feel pain. That means humans and cows are equal. That means cattle ranching is the famous slavery and that's really literally believe that if it's not animal welfare. They often hide behind. All we have to treat animals better, but it's not animal welfare.

And of course animal abuse laws should be passed.

That's part of human exceptionalism, but animal-rights is not the same thing coming back to this elephant. These are the people that brought the chimpanzee cases in New York to try to have chimps declared persons that have a writ of habeas corpus for chimpanzees to literally freeze the body so that they would be ideal was to take of these chimp child of one was a research lab.

One was on the roadside zoo. The one on the roadside zoo is not being treated well at all, but that should have been an animal welfare issue, not an animal-rights issue for us and rather than boss roadside zoo was keeping know that you alone chimp and occasional social being. That's abuse rather than above them to the animal welfare authorities brought this lawsuit because they were using the chimp to instrumentally to get their ideological desire with a loft. The chimp case, but one of the Supreme Court to call the Court of Appeals in New York, but it's the same thing as a Supreme Court, one of the judges of the Court of Appeals actually win when that court turned down the appeal of the chimps wrote a nonbinding opinion saying that in his opinion, chimp should be declared persons and given rights.

Now I tell you, but that judge is still on the court for this elephant case and I believe that it's the end and the chimp case never made it to the Court of Appeals. It was refused. But the elephant case have now. That may mean nothing, it may mean that the justice they were going to understand this once and for all, or it may mean that though that one judges persuaded some of these other judges or maybe there's some new judges. A love that don't know what's going to happen but it will be heard in the New York Court of Appeals sometime soon.

That is really disturbing.

I looked up and fax it one of the statements from Judge Eugene say he to whom you're referring from the New York Court of Appeals when he was talking about the chimps. He said we should consider whether a chimpanzee is an individual with inherent value. Who has the right to be treated with respect what you just made that coherent point here that makes sense.

This is about animal welfare. We can protect the welfare of animals from being abused without having to give them right. So why give them additional rights. What is the end goal here in the lobby animals to bring the lawsuit animals standing same thing is in the waterways issue. If the animals have the right to sue what that does is that "upper animal-rights ideologues have open access to courts to push their desires rights, so, so, conceivably, what would they want to sue over.

If, for example, an elephant is declared a person and somebody they would elephant God of all truth. Just as one example, which is what this lawsuit about yeah and that it would be a domino effect right if elephants have a right yeah you have the precedent and then it would it would spread and it's called breaking the species barrier there's already been one orangutan declared a nonhuman person and granted a writ of habeas corpus and when you say those words and you feel like you're inů You know Salvador Dali paintings, but that was in Argentina and that was considered was to great applause of the animal-rights folk because that's precisely what they want for the United States and eventually you would get to the place where you were.

The dolphins would sue if fishing interfered with their right to get the fish were way over to where no chimpanzees would sue and eventually would move down the lines of dogs. Perhaps thing you know a way to suck.

I shouldn't have to be a guard dog ear. I should, whatever it might be the goal of animal-rights. By the way, Janet. They don't talk about it too much because it would interfere with donations, but they don't think human being should have the right to own any MFP than pets. If you talk to read the writing of Gary Frank Fiona FRA and CIO NE.

He is a very big animal-rights activists from Rutgers University Law school. I've debated him.

He says you actually adopt unadoptable blogs but he doesn't think dog should exist in the world because the human invention and he doesn't think human should be able to own pets and if we did IT would be of pet owners. It would be a house and garden guardians and we have a fiduciary obligation to the pet the same way that I might have a producer obligation to a developmentally disabled person. If I became that person's guardian or conservator. In this case you if we shouldn't have dogs as pets and they shouldn't exist, is he advocating the slaughter of all dogs because dogs can't live on their own. They would die and you say you take care of the one footed booth, but don't let any new ones come into the world to increase wealth. Now when were talking about both the waterways issue in Florida and also the elephant issue in New York you. You make such great cases. People need to read your articles in your box because you do a great job extensively and explain all desperate and kind of a soundbite form. What is the best response defending human exceptionalism against these kinds of ideas that are coming up what I like to go to universities and I give the speech that you can imagine, I give, I often say you know human beings conduct of human exceptionalism doesn't mean we can do whatever we want the animals we have the duty to treat them humanely. That is important, and so forth that inevitably the animal-rights people, you think big animal-rights variables.

Anything you want but you know I calls please. What I always do as I have for filming is being human in and of itself is a what give us the obligation to treat animals properly. What does if it isn't just being you. What the and there always like the Jackie Gleason show the old days when I'm in that they don't have an answer because the only reason that we have the obligation to treat animals properly, is because we are human beings, human exceptionalism save animal-rights passes, we will have the obligation to treat animals properly, they will not have the obligation to treat us properly ignore each other properly. That proves were exceptional to what they're really doing isn't granting rights to animals, but incredibly onerous duties on and only we would have those duties and it would cause tremendous disruption in human society because we depend on the use of animals in the proper fashion not only for food and medical research. But if you think about all animal products that go into many many manufactured products. It would start you how we depend on being able to use the natural resources and the end of the wonders of nature to have a thriving economy. If nature has rights coequal with ours. It's going to throttle down and then imagine the lawsuits involving global warming that would be on the yeah the big part of the point you're totally right about that while people can reach you over its also national Wesley J. Smith, always great to talk to Wesley. Thanks for your great work.

It was wonderful to talk to you again.

Thanks very much Janet you take care Heidi to thank you so much Wesley J. Smith, thanks for listening to Janet for today.

We really appreciate getting in less you will see next time

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