Share This Episode
Janet Mefferd Today Janet Mefferd Logo

William Craig (Church Trends) Jeremy Walker (Faith)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd
The Truth Network Radio
June 9, 2020 5:00 am

William Craig (Church Trends) Jeremy Walker (Faith)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd

On-Demand Podcasts NEW!

This broadcaster has 638 podcast archives available on-demand.

Broadcaster's Links

Keep up-to-date with this broadcaster on social media and their website.

June 9, 2020 5:00 am

As our culture becomes more secular, fewer millennials are identifying with a church. What are some of the best arguments they should consider about the truth claims of Christianity? Dr. William Lane Craig will join me to talk about it and his book, On Guard for Students: A Thinker’s Guide to the Christian Faith. Jeremy Walker talks about his book, “Passing Through.” That and more on Tuesday’s JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

The Christian Car Guy
Robby Dilmore
Summit Life
J.D. Greear
Encouraging Word
Don Wilton
Destined for Victory
Pastor Paul Sheppard
Fellowship in the Word
Bil Gebhardt

This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by Liberty health share liberty.

Healthcare is a nonprofit healthcare sharing ministry that allows you to control and manage your own healthcare and choose any doctor or hospital in the nation. If your freedom loving American looking for contract free healthcare call now 855-585-4237 or go to liberty, health for more information liberty Jared River, our confidence is in Christ alone, God says that soil is percentage of the American population has dropped to 70% from just 78% a few years ago.

Big drop in almost every major branch of Christianity has lost a significant number of members. The reason while researchers say it's mainly because millennial's are leaving the fold with more than one third of them now saying that they are unaffiliated with any faith that the number up to 10 percentage points since 2007 Christianity is true there is a God.

Jesus Christ is the Messiah God incarnate and he did rise from the dead. So we have much to do in the arena of apologetics in our own country. With these many young people who have walked away from the church. So today were to be discussing this issue with Doctor William Ln., Craig research Prof. of philosophy at Bible University and an internationally acclaimed author, speaker and apologist. He has put together a wonderful book. That's intended as what he calls a trail guide for students who want to explore the truth about Christianity is called en garde for students, a thinker's guide to the Christian faith in Dr. Craig, thanks so much for being here.

It's great to have you today about one-sided well they show mainstream Protestants and Works of declined as a percentage of the US population. The encouraging news is that evangelicals are holding their own. We are maintaining all percentage of the US population and actually increasing in terms of absolute numbers very encouraging to me. I think what's happened is abandoned biblical Christianity experiencing a bloodletting membership is declining.

Their seminaries are closing but those who have been faithful to Christian belief. In fact, increasing which is good, which is great and we have an opportunity don't be so those who have left those unorthodox churches now to perhaps bring them back exactly to expose them to genuine Christianity.

Yes, what a concept. Well, this is really interesting. I'm what your thoughts are though on this large number it is still a large number of millennial to say I don't want to be associated with any church or any faith at all what you think accounts for this trend. Mainline nominations are experienced tremendous attrition because preached a sort of blas humanism and this just doesn't change anybody's life and so one wouldn't feel compelled to associate with that as much. It has to be said again that these statistics don't wear their interpretation on their sleeve. Many of these not affiliated actually believe in God.

They just don't identify themselves as Baptist or Catholics or Episcopalians or Presbyterians. Someone needs to get beneath the surface of these statistics. They know where their interpretation. On the surface yes that's really important point.

Now one of the things I think that's interesting. You mentioned in the book is that part of the challenge of getting people in general here in the Western world to think about God and I think this would be true for students as well is that we just taken for granted. I you work in a culture. You do this every day.

But how do you work in a culture largely where even the students in the millennial population just uses the name of God so casually and and doesn't even really stopped to consider the claims of Christianity very thoroughly try to understand the logical consequences of atheism.

I asked him to consider what are the implications if there is no God. And here we don't have to speculate about this from a Christian point of view we can look at what the themselves upset about this. People like nature and Russell Paulson and many contemporary atheists, and it's a very grim picture man the universe and life itself. The French existentialist philosophers said that it leads ultimately to despair at the absurdity of life and so I think we really need to help students understand the logical consequences of atheism in an effort to move them out of the sort of whatever mentality about God and help them to see that this is a question of vital personal importance to them. Absolutely you have mentioned and I know you and I have talked about this before you, you bring up these important values of meaning and value and purpose. Since these things that ought to be discussed in the context of whether or not God exists and why it matters whether or not God exists. The problem is I have read on many occasions atheists saying things like I give my own life. Meaning I give my own life values back to that whole subjectivism that is just inside our culture.

How you speak to an atheistic, especially student who might say I really care if there's any existential meaning to my life my my life matters to me really just saying let's pretend that life has meaning, and that's really fooling yourself that is most inauthentic way to live but you could imagine. It's living in self-deception because you're pretending that the world is a certain way when it's really not. And I think it's really obvious, but life in the universe don't require meaning just because I give it one because what you give it one meeting, I give it another one who's right.

I think the obvious answer is neither one. This is just all in your head. It's not really the meaning or the purpose of the significance of life in an objective sense. You sound that this generation of students is more prone or less prone to the atheistic arguments of the new atheist arguments. I don't think they're aware of them. I think there largely moved by emotional and moral factors, and there really grossly underinformed about arguments and evidence for God's existence.

So I find that with the average unbeliever, you can stop him dead in his tracks, you can just a few arguments for God's existence a few reasons to believe in God because his main reason for his atheism and apathy is that there's no good evidence for God's existence and so you're prepared to provide a little.

This is quite startling.

I think you can provoke a good conversation definitely now what would be some of those good arguments for saying, at least consider the fact that there is a God that there is evidence for God around us which different tracks would you take just as us out of the starting gate in front God to focus on just a few but God is the best explanation for anything at all exists whether the nothing second labor jobs the best explanation for the origin of the universe at a point in the finite past.

Thirdly, but God is the best explanation for the extraordinary fine tuning of the universe for intelligent life and then finally God is the best explanation for the objectivity of moral values and duties. This Prufrock presents a very powerful cumulative case for a personal creator and designer of the universe who is the paradigm and source of absolute goodness and value right now when you say it's just an interesting argument to explore and an important one to explore about the existence of the universe. Why anything exists at all, so you taking it beyond just existence of a creator about why do we exist and why does anything access. What if you found to be some of the more formidable arguments. They try to put forward to answer that. About the only thing the skeptic can say things in the universe have explanations of why they exist. The universe itself is an exception to that principal interest exists inexplicably with no reason no explanation why it exists and this commits what I call the taxicab fallacy, which is trying to dismiss this principle with every can change a thing as an explanation like a taxicab when you've arrived at your chosen destination is absolutely no reason to think that that principal cannot and does not apply to the universe. There's nothing about the universe that would exempt the formation of what is exactly right to come back to actually link Craig and I discussed his book on guard as stated night When a young mom faces an unplanned pregnancy. She's confused and scared society tells her that a baby is not a life and offers termination as the best solution. Pre-born sinners shine light into the darkness by offering young moms in crisis.

Hope, love and life, and an ultrasound to meet their pre-born baby as soon as I get a felt welcome. That gave me the first look at me baby by providing a free OSHA cell.

Pre-born is the largest provider of free ultrasounds in the country and the direct competition to Planned Parenthood. When you join pre-born in helping love and support young moms in crisis for $140 you can sponsor five ultrasounds and help save five babies lives to donate, call 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229. All gifts are tax-deductible.

855-402-2229 where there's a pre-born banner to are you in need of a healthcare program you're in love as a member of Liberty healthcare. You're part of a community that comes together to share their medical expenses. You can sign up throughout the year.

With membership starting as early as the following month and there are no contracts or commitments program start as low as $199 per month and there's no network so you can choose your own doctors and hospitals.

Liberty healthcare is a nonprofit ministry not insurance so your money goes toward helping other members with their eligible medical expenses in your time of need.

Other members are there for you to, you can feel good knowing you're part of a community of like-minded individuals who understand the importance of people coming together to bear one another's burdens. Find out more by calling 855-565-2561 855-565-2561 or visit Liberty that's Liberty Doctor William Ln., Craig research Prof. of philosophy in filing University reasonable His book on guard for students and thinkers guide to the Christian faith and we're going to break their Dr. Craig you were discussing this taxicab fallacy. This idea that you know some will say well okay some things in the universe may have an explanation for why they exist, but we don't really the universe itself is the exception that arbitrary, capricious because nothing about the universe that would make it an exception you found in the words recognize there's an explanation for why that exist, but not in merely making the ball until say it becomes the universe does nothing to remove for an explanation of its existence think they make that exception is it just that they don't want to go there that that the bigger you get, the more you have probably have to allow for the existence of God or have any concern that certainly the motivation of needing to avoid theism that I think may, without realizing it.

Be actually begging the question what they may be assuming that the universe is all and can't be anything outside that would explain the principle which is under discussion. Begging the question or reasoning in a circle presupposing anything in order to avoid the yes now you use logic all the time. When you're making these sorts of arguments what you found to be the best moral arguments for the existence of God in terms of that very question that God created everything, including the universe, how do you construct a moral argument along those lines. Well argument just three steps number one God is not an objective moral values and duties do not exist many years recognize that there is no god then everything is relative, but promised to objective moral values and duties in moral experience.

We apprehend the realm of moral values and duties subjectively binding and we recognize that each walk into a movie theater and shoot innocent people to behead innocent children in the name of God, these are all atrocities and it follows therefore number three therefore God exists from those to ship the premises which most people would agree with the existence of God follows logically right. And of course our argument is that it isn't just the fact that there is a God that there is a creator, but the Christian God is he got so here's here's a conundrum because you just brought this up the issue of beheading makes everybody think about the Islamic state what's going on in the Middle East for increasingly larger and larger number of people. Millions of people in the Middle East what they are doing is okay, we have people flocking from all over the world to join the Islamic state, not in the millions. At this juncture, but there are a lot of people a lot of Muslims who sign onto the idea of jihad and that is theologically acceptable to them. So the question for the atheist or the skeptic, maybe how do we figure out if it's there God or your God, even if I do accede to the promise that would happily agreed to by a true Christian monotheism to Christian monotheism. I believe we need to look at the person Jesus of Nazareth and my argument in the book is that when we examine the evidence for his radical claims and especially for his resurrection from the dead. We have reason to believe that the God of the universe as specially and decisively revealed himself in Jesus of Nazareth and so that it is the God revealed by Jesus, the true God, yes. And there are lots of pieces of evidence even outside the Bible that testify to Jesus existence. For example, and and some the things he did, but for the skeptic, they will say I just don't believe the Bible so if you present me with the Bible, which is a historical collection itself, in and of itself, but also the very word of God. They will discount it because they say it's a religious tax it's already have. It Artie has this built-in bias important to try to help the unbeliever understand that one will set aside argument once a conviction that this is the inspired book and so were going to treat this just the way you treat other ancient documents from the ancient world and were going to examine them to see whether or not they are historically credible and when you treat them in that way.

Like story and would treat any ordinary documents of ancient history, no to look like the sources for the life and teachings of this man Jesus of Nazareth one isn't in any way appealing to Christian bias or inspiration nor spirituality to establish the broad outlines of the case that I'm laying out for you.

Now, those in other religions again will look to Jesus as a holy man were profit how do we best make the argument that know he was more than a prophet. He was the very son of God that he claimed they well I think exactly 2 points that I just mentioned his radical personal claims he thought of himself as more than a mere profit Jewish holy man he thought of himself as divine in his resurrection from the if that occurred, is God's public vindication was radical personal claims for which he was crucified and so I have debated Muslim apologist about the identity of Jesus and these arguments that I should stand up the best of these Muslim apologist and showing the Jesus was more than just a holy man or great prophet like Mohammed, but that he was in fact we claim to be the divine son of God and the son of man to whom all worship and judgment on it would be given to standard argument since you brought up the debates that you had with Muslims about Jesus merely being a prophet will what do they stand on. Clearly there, standing in the Koran, but there a lot of different people from different traditional situation.

I can't presuppose the truth of the car anymore than I could presuppose the truth of the Bible is very strange. These Muslim apologist will appeal to modern New Testament to try to use their arguments. People like Jesus. Jesus never made any radical personal claims that these were inventions by the Christian church and you need to just get down and dirty and Jesus and show no these are not later accretions these are claims made by the historical Jesus himself and and then they have no ground on which to deny that he made these claims right well and you also don't take the word of the seminar that votes on Scripture with a critique of the people and their skepticism by showing the correct application of the historical criteria Jesus believed himself to be the Jewish Messiah, the son of God, unique sound, and the Son of Man prophesied by the prophet Daniel and you can show that without presupposing biblical inspiration, or that this is the word of God simply on the basis of ordinary historical investigation of these records what you say is the strongest evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ outside of the text of Scripture of Christianity itself, everybody recognizes the question came into being. Midway through the first century to rise because this movement to spring into being that it came into being because these earliest disciples sincerely and suddenly believed Jesus of Nazareth was on the dead. But how in the world they come up with an un-Jewish preposterous belief like that is a great history for any skeptical critic who fails to postulate the explanation given by the disciples themselves. Namely, that God raised Jesus from the dead think the very origins of the disciples belief in Jesus is a powerful argument for the historicity of his resurrection. That's awesome. I like that that's a really important thing to mention is for students themselves and that's whom you're addressing in your book on guard for students giving all of this evidence for Christianity. What sounds to be any different time or if there is any difference really with this generation. The previous generations. A lot of the questions just keep coming up again and again and again.

Is there one particular aspect of Christian theology or or evidence before Christianity with which this generation may struggle more than previous months. I think it will find the idea that there can be only one way to God offensive and morally repugnant. They have been to believe in religious relativism that there are many way to God but it's a matter of personal taste and you sort of choose your own religion. And it's true for you and that's for them and show the idea that Christ is the only way of salvation is, I think deeply troubling and repugnant to students today and that's why I closed the book with a straw strong defense of the uniqueness of Christ and his being the only way of salvation studied the same students probably would find themselves if they were on an airplane in a thunderstorm and air traffic controllers were saying this is the way to get back to the airport.

They probably wouldn't be seen.

There are hundreds of ways into the Pentagon and and this is a much more serious is that eternal life and death.

Is it still all the scientific naturalism of the 20th century which said that science facts about the world but rules engine and ethics are just matters of personal taste like having a taste for chocolate rather than for no part of the challenge for us as Christians is to help people understand that religion is a question of fact it's a matter of fact taste. It's like getting back to the airport safe in the thunderstorm absolutely will wonderful book on guard for students reasonable Dr. William Lane Craig's website.

Wonderful work you do such great work, thanks so much Dr. Craig thanks again will be back this archived broadcast of Janet met for today is brought to you by Liberty health sheer liberty healthcare is a nonprofit healthcare sharing ministry that allows you to control and manage your own healthcare and choose any doctor or hospital in the nation. If your freedom loving American looking for contract free healthcare call now 855-585-4237 or go to liberty, health for more information liberty Joe welcome back my first John 215 tells us to not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the father is not in him. And yet were also told in John 316 for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. So how can we both love the world as God does, and also not love the world, how can we be in the world but not of the world is one of the classic struggles of the Christian life and to navigate the waters.

My next guest says we need the word of God is our map, and the spirit of Christ as our compass very well said, situating me now is Jeremy Walker, who is pastor of Main Bauer Baptist Church in Crawley, England, and were to be talking about his new book, wonderful book.

It's called passing through Pilgrim life in the wilderness and has to agree to up to me today.

Thank you so much. Great to have you know, this kind of remind me of the old song. This world is not my home on just a passing through a reference but yes it is a make of that sentiment went when Christians will say well the world is not my home, I'm just here for a time but my home really isn't here because it's kind of a contradiction were here to live is Christ today's game were here now and you were going to have it. What about the world not been our home.

You can you can see those words in the wrong spirit in the right spirit.

If somebody uses for a fatalistic shrug.

You know this is an old average white ball get too worried about things get better in the future. I want to say hang on a minute, but if somebody say mission as I go through this life. I recognize that this is the world that is passing away. I want to honor God. Here, recognizing that the things which ought to come all the things which are eternal and those are the things which I'm truly investing that psychology, amen, amen. If I'm in America right so we are in the world. We are to care and love for a fallen world for not only creation around us but also for the people in the world will will all go to heaven or go to Halloween. Great commission is a self and you mentioned John 17, which I think is an excellent passage to look at when you're examining the subject, the Lord Jesus talking a lot about this in identifying himself as the paradigm for our relationship to the world what we gather from John 17 would you say to help us pray pray disciples and those who follow on off to them and print the text that is that the world is tight to them because they are not of the world. Just as I am not of the world. I do not pray that you should take them out of the world, but that you should keep them from the evil one, but I am not of the world.

Just as I am not of the world sanctified by you by your truth. Your word is truth, and then as he's been sent. He sends them so here are so often we need to make sure we understand what manger uses the word world this point he's really talking about the world consider that the enemies of God arranged against him only way the world can be used but he's he's trying mission, my kingdom is not of this world. My mind is related primarily at this point with regard to the world, come into this world to save my people nobody's not ruling over Shelburne in the suppression world peace and why people belong to me that part of my kingdom and they should live. As such, while that parsing through this pulsing world exactly. So when we look at other passages such as Hebrews 11. The faith Hall of Fame is a lot mentioned, there are references here to those who died in faith were strangers and exiles on the earth and we see a lot of these sorts of references in Scripture to us being pilgrims as you say, what does that essentially mean when were really trying to understand it.

Biblically speaking motif of the Pilgrim on a pilgrimage is one that I think is too often directed in the modern church and it is this notion of one whose home is elsewhere that we we are traveling, but that doesn't mean disregard full on the correct golf.

The journey itself.

Even the way in which we journey reflects our ultimate identity and destination, but the world is not.

You wouldn't you would look at business traveler site in a hotel room if I hate that man.

That woman is settling down and making that Dr. temporary residence until they reached the place at which they really, I mean way that their investments in the hopes that the expectations are unknown to me that treasure is stored up right that's a really good analogy to use. I also want to touch on something that you mentioned in the book early on and that is some of the flawed ways that we deal with the world and which about a lot of these, especially the isolation option right now here in the states because of the so-called same sex marriage decision.

What are we really eat out do we use the Benedict option. I think some people have called it. Are we going to a sort of a monastic mindset. Okay just let America fall will just know but hunker down and hide in our houses and hope for the best.

What you say to the isolation option of dealing with the world. I would say that to do that in one of the key privileges and duties of the Christian church, an individual site. The command of Christ, but our light shine before men, to the glory of God that we are to be salt and light, but the problem is that even the apostle Paul said went when I tell you not to keep company with the wicked keep company with the wicked people the world you go to somehow retreat away from the world and isolate yourself and partly to do that is to lose our capacity to truly witness for the move. Jesus Christ, which we need to do without compromise.

That's a great answer and what is inattention. This is another thing that sometimes people will say I just can ignore the world hope hope it'll go away in the sit home and read my Bible and maybe it all just kind of disappear around me and I won't have to deal with it yet and not convey I do honestly I just don't care let them get on with it or make much difference to me or I can't do anything about that anyway, but again that that mixes out on the cold to totally engagement.

One of the points I make in the book is it we need to cultivate simultaneous holy engagement and the separation that this dish inattention. This canvasdisregard really is not godlike. It's not Christlike. You don't find out in the heart of our Savior.

He never shrugs and policies by absolutely right now we have another problem which is emulating the world and in some circles, there is a lot of concern about this. The fact that even the church sometimes has compromise with the world, made peace with it in some respects, and is become actually pretty worldly.

What are your concerns in that regard. While we don't go right in it to win it mentality and even those who would say when not interested in that we can drift toward that where we effectively become not righteously pragmatic, and in the best sense.we we don't the world ways of thinking we we fall into the trap of believing that in order to attract or affect the world more like the world. The church is more attractive and effective.

We will be to run in the world where actually I think there's a strong scriptural argument is borne out from history that the best teachers even in the lost few decades, it would say that in order to be attractive and effective.

We need to be distinctively godly and that means unlike the world around us. That's what sets us apart in the best sense and demonstrate the beauty and the majesty of the God whom we serve right so if you are concerned for example about worldliness in your own lives. Do I really love the world had become a friend of the world or am I justifying my friendship with the world in order to fulfill some ministry duty, and I'm fooling myself. How would you discern whether or not you're being worldly well Distinction is quite stocky in the Scriptures friendship with the world is enmity with God, the tests have to do with our heart desires our attractions. The things in which we indulge are the motives that lie behind things that is a great danger that we will dress up our worldliness and holy motives. I'm I'm only indulging this particular sin of the flesh, for want of a better price might be a better one but I'm I'm I'm doing this. I'm going to this place. I'm hanging out with these people.

I find forming this activity because this is the way that I get close to say. My goodness were very close friend Jeremy Walker with us talking about passing through hi this is Kirk Cameron and I am honored to be partnering with the Ministry of pre-born to help mom's choose life actor Kirk Cameron supports pre-born. My four oldest children were adopted. That is because of caring and compassionate people who help those young mothers choose life. My wife is an adopted child and her birth mother chose life for her if it weren't for those caring individuals that help those young moms of value. The sacredness of life. I wouldn't have my wife I wouldn't have my four adopted children, and the two natural born children that we have wouldn't exist either.

My whole family is here because of people that are involved with ministries like freeborn freeborn funds pregnancy centers across the nation so they can offer free ultrasounds to women in crisis pregnancies. Ultrasound is a game changer because when abortion minded women actually see their babies in their wombs for themselves.

80% of the time they choose life which you please join us at Janet my for today to support the ministry of pre-born for $140 you can provide five free ultrasounds to women in crisis pregnancies a gift of $22 will provide one ultrasound and every gift helps to donate please call now 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or there's a banner to

All gifts are tax-deductible, and 100% of your gift goes directly toward saving babies, you can get involved and you can help save a life for a gift of $140.05 free ultrasounds will be offered to women in crisis pregnancies. Please call now with your gift. 855402, baby. That's 855402 baby 855-402-2229 or there's a banner to We are strangers and exiles. In fact, we are pilgrims we are in the world where not of its facet.

My kingdom is not of this world we have to struggle with this question of being in the world and being lights of the world is Jesus commanded us to be winning people to Christ preaching the gospel disciples making disciples as Jesus told us in Matthew 28, and yet this is a very difficult struggle for many of us, what is it really mean to be worldly or to be having a friendship with the world as opposed to reaching it with another kingdom, and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ pastor Jeremy Walker is my guest were talking about his book called passing through Pilgrim life in the wilderness and we are talking a little bit before we went to the break about this issue of worldliness and I think you know he really touched on an important aspect of this which is in your actions and your thoughts there really needs to be an examination by the word of God. I would think in order to really discern those things.

One of the dangers that we use a phrase like that judge don't judge lest you be judged. Use actually to suspend judgment and end to almost ignore the whole principle that our Lord gives us but you can know the tree by its fruit.

Yes, we must look at speech, we must look at behavior. We must look at the companion that we choose the words that come out of our mouth because that's what reveals the heart and those things that we can legitimately appropriately and righteously say that's indicative of where alcohol is because alcohol will be wet out treasuries for investments hopes, expectations and connections are in the pulsing world The terrible indication yes it is. Now there's another aspect of this and that is analyzing you talk about understanding the environment and one of the things that you mentioned. This is key from John chapter 15 is the fact that if you are a Christian, the world will hate you. Jesus said this very very clearly that we would be hated.

John 17 also makes reference there. So how should we understand what it means to be hated by the world and also to understand why is it that the world automatically hates us challenge for we all want some measure going to be affected by the fear of man we want we want to say that we won't be a pool friendship of people making the people to be sniping out literally every time you walk out of the door, but that necessarily spit especially in our environment. In the modern West, but it does mean that there is this ingrained opposition. It's it's a spiritual antagonism that comes from the fact that referring back to John 17 that we mentioned our union with Christ, which produces or should produce an increase in Christ likeness sets us apart from the world and then where the way that Christ likeness becomes evident and is manifest that is going to start up the spiritual antagonism that going to show itself in any number of different ways. Well said, and I think that one of the difficulties for a lot of Christians is just being human and saying I don't like being disliked.

I just don't want to be hated what I ever do to you and and maybe there needs to be more emphasis in churches on the fact that this is normal and perhaps we as Western Christians have more difficulty with this because in other parts of the world there use to attend their use to their government hating them and persecuting them and putting them through all sorts of difficulties.

Maybe I mean do you think this is something that Western Christians really have a harder time with think that because of the impact of Christian teaching in Western society and the fact that we had.

I think unusual unblessed measures of common grace in our society. Measures of restraint on some of the scriptural wisdom that it will have a bearing on the way in which our society is governed directly and indirectly. I fear that we might have lost sight of this night. I also fear that we going to have a shop lesson before very long, because we we all those with whom it was said want to follow Christ.

We must take up our cross and follow him and I think that too often we want our cross.

Christianity scripturally. There really isn't such a thing.

That's right, exactly. You also mentioned that we need to know our enemy in a season six. Of course, points out that our our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, and against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. So we have a spiritual enemy the devil who has been defeated by Christ, but still we have to contend with him.

How does this play into the Christian life would you say and how odd it to be at the forefront of our minds when we are dealing with the issue of worldliness and and being out of this world to realize that one of the greatest deception perpetrated in right what what we want want more effective ploy for an enemy to persuade his enemy that he doesn't exist sir.

First of all I think we need to be very clear about the spiritual realities are part of our everyday life and again this is not a sort of devils on the bed thing, but he has his devices. He has his ways and means of opposing us and we need to recognize that there was really this is no neutral territory.

We cannot baby and neither can anyone else pay whatever by my profession suspended in some kind of gray zone. We are either for Christ and against the devil or under the devil's power and therefore aliens alienated from God and against Christ and that's going to involve this spiritual combat yes it is decisive battle weariness site when I got to that section in your book. I said, I'm so glad you're talking about because I said I think it's a normal thing for Christians to go through periods of time where there enduring so much, just in living in this world and enduring attacks and and also spiritual attacks and they just sometimes think the Lord just let me put my sword down for about three weeks ahead. Of course you can's obviously you can't just opt out of the battle but what advice would you have from the word of God really about battle weariness and continuing to contend for the faith and follow Christ even when things become difficult. I would cite Christ by Christ himself took his disciples aside to rest for a while. He himself took time to pray it were to reestablish and recalibrate a sense of these realities as an incarnate the incarnate son but again it it really comes back to our sense of time is short and we must cultivate a sense of it, we will lay down our weapons and in the great scheme of things it won't be very far away, but until then, this. This world is a world in which we fight. And so I think that of realism that they're all this teaching of rest, spite and encouragement. But again, it's within the congregation is within the local church that this intensity on the equipment and the fellowship one of those sort of investments are made to help us keep up the patient and keep the month strapped on point. Very good. And again, going back to your assertion about Jesus being the paradigm for a relationship of the world. Christ is going to succumb to me, all ye who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest and water will show Toto through the right to the Hebrews it out. You look to me. Yes, I've I've run this race before and I've overcome the world. You all of those things out. Ultimately, it is it is looking to waiting for Christ will be motives give us some motives provide us with the strength that we need for these things. Sir now when Jesus and his kingdom is not of this world you believe that can encourage us as were running the race and fixing our eyes on Christ.

Percival stopped becoming discouraged when we don't see this world being particularly Christian should be expected to be. I think it helps us gain the realism of knowing who we all and what we are about, but it also teaches us to look forward with a real expectancy to be the kingdom which is coming at this kingdom of grace which we enjoy now it's it's the kingdom of God wearing the bogged of the kingdom of glory is his grace in the blue that the best life is not now all want Missouri's best life is that which is to, not to wear a meaningful yes I've heard it said if this is your best life now then that can only mean you're going to hell and that's yet I mean that's the truth. If you are a Christian, no matter what your life is like, you know what your life will be like, and in the midst of this world, we need to obey Christ and to continue to rest in him. As you mentioned to falling back on our union and our communion with the Lord Jesus. It is the only way to fight this battle and such a great book. It is called passing through Pilgrim life in the wilderness and joining me has been pastor Jeremy Walker. It is just so wonderful to have your pastor Walker. I so appreciate what you have to write and it was just a great joy to have you for having me on many others as well. Now I know it well. I know it well.

Thank you again pastor Jeremy Walker and thank you for tuning in today. We appreciate you and hope you will be able to tune in again, we thank you for being here. Our website is

Get The Truth Mobile App and Listen to your Favorite Station Anytime