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Mike Berry (1st Amend) Andrew Bostom (COVID-19 Mask Policy)

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The Truth Network Radio
July 13, 2020 5:30 am

Mike Berry (1st Amend) Andrew Bostom (COVID-19 Mask Policy)

Janet Mefferd Today / Janet Mefferd

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July 13, 2020 5:30 am

The U.S. Navy has reversed a policy banning Christians from attending in-person church services during the pandemic. We'll get the details from Mike Berry, deputy general counsel for First Liberty Institute. Plus: A Texas state agency is now advising residents to wear masks, even when they're home! Yet epidemiologist Dr. Andrew Bostom notes there's no scientific evidence to support compulsory mask wearing. He'll join me to talk about it on Monday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This Janet Mefford today archived broadcast is brought to you by by the lead international please help us in 1200 Bibles to persecuted Christians in Asia. Five dollars sends one Bible $35. Send seven. Call now 800 yes word 800 YESWORD 800 yes word or there's a banner to is our confidence is in Christ alone, I sort of know I gave a speech. Just a few days ago, unveiling his economic vision and declaring an end to the era of shareholder capitalism that's never a good thing when a would-be American president wants to talk about ending capitalism in any form. That's not good. Especially when we have the width of socialism in the air. To the extent that we do listen to what Joe Biden had to say five corporate America. Our first share of taxes.

We thought our fax of the high 30s before the Lord as a backup provide hundreds of dollars to invest in this country. In the days of Amazon pray nothing in federal income tax will be over. Let's make sure workers are the power of the voice is way past time to do their shareholder Responsibility Corporation as Gerald is simply not true.

It's about cars that responsible workers for community the country that is a newer radical motion. Yeah, you didn't build that is just the reappearance of Obama's you didn't build that you owe your country. You owe your workers. You owe your community. Well, what's he talking about Breitbart points out, in place of shareholder capitalism Joe Biden is proposing a more inclusive system built on the power of labor unions and on quote black brown and Native American communities that he said had been left out of economic prosperity. Sounds like redistributing the wealth doesn't show. That's exactly what they're on board to do now. Something else I want to get to get into this in greater detail throughout the week, but I'd at least want to touch on it. Here Stanley Kurtz over at National review had written an article on this Breitbart followed up and more people are beginning to notice this, we have done a number of shows over the years about this AFF H rule and agenda 21.

If this is the affirmatively furthering fair housing regulation and the bottom line is to try to basically abolish your private property rights and move you into cities is not a fantastic idea during a pandemic. So we done a lot of shows on that but I want to share a little bit of what Stanley Kurtz writes about his headline is Biden, and Democrats are set to abolish the suburbs abolish the suburbs. How would this actually happened because when Ben Carson came in as the head of the Department of Housing and Urban Development, the whole idea was he was going to work really hard to get rid of the AFF H rule. He hasn't got rid of it. So let me give you some of the details on this.

He says that what he has found in studying Joe Biden's housing plans is both surprising and frightening. He said I expected. Pres. Biden would enforce the radical AFF H regulation to the hilt and that is what Biden promises to do and that would be more than enough to end America's suburbs.

As we've known them. But what surprises me. He says, is that Biden has actually promised to go much further than the AFF H rule. Biden has embraced Cory Booker strategy for ending single-family zoning in the suburbs and creating what you might call little downtowns in the suburbs.

All it doesn't that sound quaint combined.

The Obama Biden administration's radical AFF H regulation with Booker's new strategy and I don't see how the suburbs can retain their ability to govern themselves. It will mean the end of local control. The end of a style of living that many people prefer to the city and therefore the end of meaningful choice in how Americans can live. Should voters know that this is what's at stake in the upcoming election.

It's no exaggeration to say the progressive urbanists have long dreamed of abolishing the suburbs. Initially these anti-suburban radicals wanted large cities to simply annex their surrounding suburbs like cities did back in the 19th century and then the big city could fatten up its tax base. Once progressives discovered it had since become a legal for a city to annex its surrounding suburbs without voter consent. They cooked up this strategy that would amount to the same thing.

This de facto annexation strategy has three parts. Use a kind of quota system to force economic integration on the suburbs pushing urban residents outside of the city number two you close down suburban growth by regulating development, restricting automobile use and limiting highway growth and repair, thus forcing would-be suburbanites back to the city and then thirdly you use state and federal laws to force suburbs to redistribute tax revenue to poorer cities in their greater metropolitan region. If you forced urbanites into suburbs or suburbanites back into cities and redistribute suburban tax revenue than Prestel. You've effectively abolish the suburbs. Obama's radical AFF H regulation puts every part of progressives abolish the suburbs strategy into effect once Biden start to enforce it the way that the previous administration. Obama's did originally meant to work. It will be as if America's suburbs had been swallowed up by the cities they surround fantastic. So look at what's going on in some of these big cities right now you want to be a Minneapolis suburb, swallowed up by Minneapolis you could have a bunch of social workers help you out when you have a police matter about Baltimore that sounds like a great place to not have your own local control and on and on and on. So if this happens there to lose control of their own zoning and development they'll be pressured into a kind of de facto regional revenue redistribution and they'll even be forced to start building high density, low income housing, the latter of course will require the elimination of single family zoning. Let's what's already happened in Portland with that the basic character of the suburbs will disappear at the very moment when the pandemic has made people rethink the advantages of dense urban living. The choice of an alternative will be taken away.

Now this is bad enough but on top of AFF H. Biden now plans to use Cory Booker strategy for attacking suburban zoning AFF H works by holding HUD's community development block grants hostage to federal planning demands suburbs won't be able to get the millions of dollars they're used to, and HUD grants unless they eliminate single-family zoning and densify their business districts. AFF H also forces HUD grant recipients to sign pledges to affirmatively further fair housing those pledges could get suburbs sued by civil rights groups or by the feds if they don't get rid of single-family zoning. The only defense suburbs have against this two-pronged attack is to refuse HUD grants that will effectively redistribute huge amounts of suburban money to cities, but if they give up their HUD grants at least the suburbs will be free of federal control, but the Booker approach now endorsed by Joe Biden may block even this way out Booker wants to hold suburban zoning hostage not only to HUD grants but to the federal transportation grants used by states to build and repair highways. It may be next to impossible for suburbs to opt out of those state run highway repairs. Otherwise, suburban roads will deteriorate and suburban access to major arteries will be blocked.

AFF H plus the Booker plan will leave America's suburbs with no alternative but to eliminate their single-family zoning and turn over their planning to the feds. Slowly but surely suburbs will become helpless satellites of the cities they surround exactly as progressive urbanists intent now.

Pres. Trump had just put out on Twitter recently that he may and the AFF H housing regulation will wait a minute I thought that was the whole reason we had been Carson in their as head of HUD that he was going to get rid of AFF H.

We talked about that before Trump even got into office except that hasn't happened.

Carson as Kurtz points out suspended enforcement of the rule early on that he tinkered around for three years trying to come up with a replacement. But what he developed so far is something you might call AFF H lights. While this possible replacement removes many of the regulations excesses. Carson has so far retained the most egregious feature of AFF H he still wants to use HUD money to got suburban single-family zoning and how Carson can even think about taking this stance in the face of Pres. Trump's explicit directive to reduce and remove excessive federal regulation is a mystery. It will be very tough.

He says for the president to make a political issue out of Biden's housing plan.

So long as his own cabinet secretary is talking about killing suburban single-family zoning with AFF H folks, it's time to get on the horn. It's time to let Pres. Trump know what you think about this because you usually see you haven't seen anything yet in this country, if the progressives are able to do their urban planning. The way that they've strategized to the Cory Booker strategy and the if AFF H rule and it is a disgrace that Trump hasn't got rid of it yet. It needs to go. And here we are again more dire plans from the progressives but there's some good salty, some good news will come back and listening to Janet for today. This is Janet met for partnering with Bible league international on fan the flame Bibles for Asia.

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Are you in need of a healthcare program you're in love as a member of Liberty healthcare in your part of a community that comes together to share their medical expenses. You can sign up throughout the year. With membership starting as early as the following month and there are no contracts or commitments.

Grandma start as low as $199 per month and there is no network so you can choose your own doctors and hospitals. Liberty healthcare is a nonprofit ministry not insurance so your money goes toward helping other members with their eligible medical expenses in your time of need. Other members are there for you to, you can feel good knowing your part of a community of like-minded individuals who understand the importance of people coming together to bear one another's burdens. Find out more by calling 855-565-2561 that's 855-565-2561 or visit Liberty helped that's Liberty River to the years, your host, Joe Mefford, welcome back. While there is some good news concerning that disturbing U.S. Navy policy that prohibited active service members from attending in person religious services.

The Navy has now revise the policy and ended the band to get back in line with the Constitution's guaranteed freedom of religion, or to get some of the details now from Mike Berry, Deputy General Counsel and Dir. of military affairs for first Liberty Institute Mike so great to have you back. How are you I'm doing well thank you great will, congratulations on the reversal of this policy.

This obviously affects a lot more Christians than your client Maj. Daniel Schultz but talks a little bit how this whole situation unfolded on unfolded little over a week ago on June 24 the Navy issued an order very surprisingly and and shockingly and nobody would really give it a heads up about that in the order actually banned service members from being able to attend indoor religious services, but at the same time the order allowed servicemembers to hold social gatherings of any size and then of course there's other guidance issued by the military that allowed service members to participate in and protest them and that those sorts of activities so I think that anybody who is paying attention would quickly come to the conclusion that the Navy was telling its its troops.

You can have a party where people are free to bring their own beer, but they can't bring their own Bible and and that is you know beyond ridiculous exactly unconstitutional swelling easily keep seen this double standard all the time. It seems I've heard this kind of situation going on in multiple locations across the country where stores are fine and you can do this and you can do that you just can't go to church talk a little bit about major salts, though, what, how did this impact him directly, while major, is actually an Air Force major button and for that might confuse some people. But anybody who served in the military. Note that we frequently like to cross pollinate the services so you can Air Force major that that we find to the Naval postgraduate school is serving under a Navy command. And that's what he subject to this to this or was the time subject of this order and later sold to the devout Christian. He's very active in his community and in his church and he that actually either worship leader. He and his wife both are worship leaders did he do if I recall correctly, made or sold. Does vocal than his wife does piano and so they were, you know, looked upon and relied upon by by their church to help lead worship and that includes during the 19 pandemic when their church was still doing streaming services. He was able to at least go to the church and and and he and the other members of the worship team and perform the services that were then streamed and then when Gov. Newsom in California began allowing people to go back to church and and worshiping in person with all the appropriate CDC guidelines in place eat the of course they would just like everybody over the country were thrilled to be able to do that again of the community and then migrated out of the blue the Navy order says no you can't, even if even if your governor your county or city or whatever allows you to the Navy is telling you you can't and if you violate it you could potentially be court-martialed. Did they have a specific policy or anything in place to refer to to say this is why were doing this for religious services, but not for stores now don't really excellent and an explanation given. At least it was nothing outlining why they thought there were such a problem with religious services.

I suppose you know if you want to read between the lines. You could say that they, for the reason they bought into this methodology that that you're more likely to catch, or spread code 19 in church than you are, and how the parties which is ridiculous, or riots for that matter or protest or something out on the streets.

If you're engaged in shop in Seattle then you'll be fine.

But if you're to church.

Apparently, that's the end of the world. Now that one almost laughable one to really be the laundromat comparison.

You know when they play well churches are different because people go there for the purpose of of of congregating and being there for a an extended period of time with other people up and coming into contact with other people, but the laundromat it you know you're just sort of in and out and I and I started scratch my head that they needed you to whoever's coming up with a clearly never spent time in a coin-operated laundromat you're stuck there and with no one ago when you're surrounded by other people, you know that I definitely think there is you coming up with these of have clearly not been in the reality that some of us have been throughout our lives. Yeah good point. What about the argument that you made here in this letter, the violations of the Constitution and the violations of rough. What were they coming beyond the I think the common argument you and I've just been discussion you you know when you get into the legal argument Constitution. There is no pandemic exception to the First Amendment.

The First Amendment is the First Amendment and I actually remember at the bit to be very beginning of the code 19 pandemic that something at first Liberty. We we wanted to remind people because we heard a lot of rhetoric about well, this is an emergency situation.

This is a public health crisis and we gotta put the fourth amendment on the back burner and we said not that they don't think about this.

Go back to your history books which nobody appears to doing more.

Our founders when they were drafting the First Amendment and the rest of the other amendments of the Bill of Rights. Not like they were strangers to times of crisis and pandemic that you know and and and even emergencies right the world in which they live. You know whether it was from the British or from the spread of disease or you know just living life in the in the 17th and 18th centuries on a daily basis was far more dangerous than anything we face today.

Yet they still understood how it was to have the freedom size of religion and we pointed out to the Navy that there is no pandemic exception to the First Amendment.

In fact, there's also this thing called the religious Freedom restoration act which clearly protects the right of all Americans and and it requires the government.

If you're going to substantially burden somebody's religious belief. You have to show a compelling government interest that is tailored by the least restrictive means and saying you can't go to church or will court-martial you is not the least effective means there are certainly many other things that you can do to help spread to prevent the spread of a virus beyond banning people from going to church especially again like we said, if you can allow them to go to the laundromat or through a house party or attend a protest yet exactly right in violators being called court-martialed as you just mentioned were they justifying this. I know that they had referenced this particular section in the US code, but what was that section. How are they possibly trying to say you deserve to be court-martialed.

If you go to church in person while in the middle.

They are different for different types of directive it can be given, and there are some that violating them can result in a fortuitous administrative action.

Write a slap on the hand you yield up with something negative in your and your record or something like that other orders that the the technical term used to describe the risk of their punitive order.

In other words, if you violate it you can actually be punished and that this order clearly stated in black/white this is a punitive order in violation of it will can result could potentially result in charges being brought against you better court-martial for what's called article 92 S. section of the US code 10 USC section 892 that the uniform code of military justice, and that is the part of the UC MJ that says if you violate a lawful general order which is one purported to be, we don't think it was lawful, but it was at least a general order that you can be court-martialed for violating order and so you don't, of course, I know that you naysayers will the military, you know, and we and we have to have law and order in the military.

People have to follow orders. That's all true but there's one giant presumption there and that is that the order issued is lawful. I don't think anybody would would would have any qualms about disobeying an order to to kill innocent women and children right go in and burn that village to the ground regardless who happens to be there. Any servicemember would rightfully say I think that's an unlawful order and I'm not going to obey it well. Similarly, if you issue an order and the order itself violates somebody's constitutional right then you know it. That order would be on its face unconstitutional. An engineer would not be a requirement that you that you follow it because you can't order somebody to do something that violates the Constitution, or violates the law and that's exactly what we had here at first Liberty Institute pointed that out to the Navy and were very thankful.

I do want to make sure that we commend them.

This is a pretty fast turnaround. If you know much like turning an aircraft carrier getting the entire U.S. Navy to reverse course is no easy task but yet they did so in in about a week. That was definitely commendable on the part of the Navy leadership yet so what talking about the updated policy. They've now clarified what servicemembers can do as far as attending church. What does this new policy now say what I think in the easiest way to describe it. New policy simply, you can go to indoor religious services now long as those services are CDC compliant, so if they take the appropriate measures with distancing and sanitizing and and and and what you know if if masks are required, then so be it. As long as you're complying with those measures. Then you can do it and I think that's fair right every week.

We currently want a common sense approach there nobody's asking for permission to be reckless at their just want to make sure that you know are servicemembers that they serve for noble cause and a noble purpose, and we know and having been a veteran myself I know that when we serve. We raise her right hand, we willingly give up some of our rights in some of our freedom, but we don't give up religious freedom and we have to remind the government of that. Sometimes they know the old saying of the price for freedom is eternal, eternal vigilance and that's what it requires is to be vigilant in reminding the government.

Your you're going too far you're taking too much authority will that's right in and as I mentioned before, there have been so many cases like this across the country, but it's a little galling when you see the U.S. Navy actually putting something so draconian into effect and it's just wonderful.

Actually, that they have changed course on this policy now put into practice more reasonable measures.

I would say to keep people safe, but not to prevent anybody from exercising their freedom of religion might vary from first Liberty Institute first thanks a lot, Mike.

Always great to have you here, are you back. Take care will be right back. This Janet met for today archived broadcast is brought to you by by the league international. Please help us in 1200 Bibles to persecuted Christians in Asia. Five dollars sends one Bible $35 sends seven call now 800 yes word 800 YESWORD 800 yes word or there's a banner to here's your host Joe. This is where we are now the Texas division of emergency management is now advising state residents to wear masks at all times even at home. Yeah, I'm not doing. That's why then have groups like the Association of American physicians and surgeons said that wearing masks will not reduce code 19 and even when the World Health Organization recently walked back its original advice against the widespread use of masks it admitted the use of a mask alone is insufficient to provide an adequate level of protection or source control. So are the masks really about our health or are they also about control as many people fear especially when we consider that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is about to declare its epidemic phase over 10 consecutive weeks of declining code 19 mortality so were to talk about it today with Dr. enter Boston. He's a trained clinician epidemiologist and clinical trial list with experiences, associate professor of family medicine research at the Warren Alpert medical school of Brown University and has been a great piece about this over conservative called masquerade covered 1984 and evidence free compulsory masking any great to welcome you back. I hope you're not wearing a mask, wear a mask free zone here. I well encountered position and walking Catherine and bear even their part.

I took my habitable become known out of the a a one of the stigmata of awful stork language, but it really is there no, I discovered a paper very early on in the pet it was. It was almost contemporaneous with the with the with the aftermath of the 1918, which was a real need, depending on how you measure it, about 100 to a thousand times more lethal than cold 19 have played out yet so 100 times in terms of overall mortality. But then when you look at something like loss of of life years because it was brutal for the young it was little for the healthy young including military recruit World War I.

So in addition to the old boat so it was infinitely worse. But that was that there was a very aggressive masking campaign and hotspot United States one of them will go and at a very thoughtful piece was written by the then executive officer of the Kelly California State Board of Health infectious disease expert and observation in the aftermath of 1920 the math contrary to expectation one cheerfully and universally and also contrary to expectation of what should follow a no effect on the epidemic curve. The company something was quite plainly wrong with our hypotheses. You know what that honesty. The guy I needed it was striking.

He also went on to do a laboratory's review of the geologic evidence. Back then they basically had gone serial or permit the object log layered and he actually was able to trace back. Again, may not be of value.

Large larger particles such a cough, even in this brief experiment by the time we got up to the level bacterial infiltration people could bring the course is so fast forward to a meta-analysis.

One of the canal of a pooled analysis of data of the gold standard that we used to be therapeutic in in in bed, if not infallible, but the best method we have is called a randomized placebo-controlled study so can the individual study were conducted.

Basically between 2008 and in 2016. Very interesting.

One was basically basking or nobler after high school I there were there were seven household studies where either the person that would stick and this is all based on employment, which is a perfect analogy for the covert, 19, so either you think the household contact was the the unexpected. People who work were math or both will bask. So for studies of basically studying household transmission and then two studies were done among students on university campuses during the flu see whether the male young male with with with developed laboratory confirmed influenza all of the individual studies were negative, but you know because they're small studies. What what investigators will Google aggregate and so what if they will little small effects in each study that you would only see when you aggregated the date of the remember the individual studies are no when they pulled the data to give them what cold more ethical power pooled results with gold and end this in this study to make more strong this meta-analysis of 10 negative gold standard randomized controlled trial was published where in the CDC's old house journal called emerging infectious diseases. When was it published. It was just published based on real I you can walk will literally 100 years of consistency and observation about the horrific 1918 flu pandemic by by a dedicated public health official from California call but admitting something was wrong with our theory.

You know and and then doing a little small experiment to see what could we have done better deal making a thicker gloss mask at the time yelled but but acknowledging even that experimental evidence that you know people could wear such a mask outside so it is very disturbing that were being told that if you don't wish to wear a mask at their advertising now you cheerfully on Fox news Brett Baron Martha McCallum your cheerfully telling us to basically gonna mask as soon as you walk out your house.

I had to have a scintilla of scientific evidence to support and, in fact, the evidence that we do have is well here. Here's an example of this because I was recently on an airplane and in this just was driven home to me in every way could be driven home. All of these orders.

I was in Chicago so it's very draconian up in Illinois right now you have to wear a mask by city order. Now they've got travel. You gotta quarantine if you come in from one of the states where the cases arising all that kinda stuff to come to O'Hare you gotta stand on your goofy little dot in the TSA lines everybody 6 feet apart were all wearing masks. There are barriers everywhere when you go up to the agent. There is a plastic barrier like we find in all these restaurants now got all that stuff going the minute you get on the airplane. What happens your sitting inches away from total strangers and everybody pulls their past. This is either a plague of of gargantuan proportion like you would believe.

If you are walking to the airport or it's no big deal when you get on the airplane that's what that's what you're being told when you get on the airplane because you can't have both things being true simultaneously right well it is actually the great vignette captures so much about it. Patch it captures the absurdity of it but but it also.

It also captures the lack of of of of practical measures. So for example forget about the masking on a plane. What about just having a vet, a much better air filtration for exactly that actually kill circulating viruses is apparently doing I would say one of the things that the harder it is keeping kids out of school.

Why not, why not put one of these air purifiers that that that work by electrostatic forces that that that conducted protein the way maybe the activate viruses that we can do that. The bacteria one on one and invest 400 bucks to put one in classrooms with that of the crazy things they buy for school and ill, but but but but it is the feeling with with with lack of evidence-based practice on so many levels. I need all we have to do is think about how has ever been done with with seasonal influenza as your seasonal influenza out of place as this is done by now just a second. We got pause and take a quick break. Dr. Annie Boston with us will come back on Jennifer today after this, the ministry of pre-born is the largest provider of free heartbeats for moms in crisis in the USA when a mother chooses life pre-born sinners are there to help with the baby's needs counseling and so much more free of charge. I don't know where my life without her.

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We have an immediate need for registered nurses, especially with specialty as a volunteer nurse. You will just give life altering healthcare will receive so much in return for an amazing experience home and make a difference in the lives of those who have virtually no access to medical aid Dale everything he said there their time. So what are you waiting for show mercy to someone today. I get more information and learn how to apply by visiting Mercy versus Mercy you're listening to Joan at Milford today and know you Dr. fat. She says you should wear a mask in part because it's a symbol of respect. Well, is that what it's all about. First, it was 15 days to slow the spread. That's why everybody had to be locked down. Now it's all about the masks you gotta wear a mask everywhere you go. Compulsory mask wearing, except as my guest says there is still no controlled evidence that supports masking, especially non-healthcare settings. Dr. Andrew Bostrom is with us, who is an epidemiologist and clinical trial us.

So let's talk about this a little bit more this idea that Dr. found she keeps changing his mind problems with batches to somebody who is in the details you need ambiguity has real consequence.

It just so confusion and frustration and anger and and and many seem to be upset that people are upset with what why don't you think about what you're going to say and it impacted bit of worried about people getting angry at you and you know I did take comfort in little things like you being considered the most sexy man and leave it at that awful what he thought about it, but what he thought he saw his confusion he sold alarm you. We talked about this before in terms of going alarm about pediatric COBIT 19 which is a complete nonproblem. Janet should know the CDC just to update one for people flu surveillance database, one for COBIT 19 that the problem is they don't. The age group for kids don't overlap exactly COBIT 19 for some reason they have a age group 0 14 May donate the 14 years old for flow is 0 to 17 in that above 17, but I didn't extrapolation the figure that well 80 it's pretty linear.

The rest 80% of the of the flu 0 to 17 is equivalent to the Colby 0 to 14 in terms of his later risk 0 to 14 through June 27. The last time the CDC updated database for COBIT 1929. Every death is tragic.

I'm not minimizing that hero to 14 again extrapolating the total euros 1785 so I extrapolated 250 a 14 influenza death. Regular regular seasonal flu five times as many that the plot and and and were not closing.

We didn't. We went home. Nero starts earlier thought all closed out. No report for the best folder that was mounting from regular seasonal flu among school-age children just freaking out there in and then you have Dr. found she saying that it's a false narrative to take comfort in a lower rate of death so that was a bizarre statement, what, what, when you tease out to give to give them a modicum of credit.

What you think it well you know the cases were rising and those are going to translate what turned out to be related to death that it turned out to be largely untrue because as Rhonda said this pointed out the other day. You know that the most common H single data point. Most common age now in Florida for" case positivity with age 21 people are like zero red the whole age distribution had shifted from like a median age of 55. I think down to about 30.

That's a big decrease in the risk of dying from COBIT.

19 all positive people in Washington have the governor and the state. There are: the edict and and I think I don't know if they court that has statewide jurisdiction of, but the right language about Percival. They cited the lack of but they also said that it was invasive and core and and I and II hope they at least get a hearing. Why do you sue, it's really important to stress that to because it absent any real science and and we are always hearing you follow the science make sure you're following the signs except for them. The science keeps changing all the time and then you they just make it up as they go. In many cases. But what about this issue of wearing masks just from a social perspective because you are saying that at the beginning of the interview that that you do have some concerns about the social control angle on all of this part of the law to the whole shaming that I do not like. That's why I'm I'm really interested in following up what happens with the argument. I hope you get a chance to argue in court that that that there is no is no especially in the absence of evidence. How dare the government shaming people who don't want to be coerced into wearing a mask when they're out of doors with basically zero transmission of this virus. Anyway, under any circumstance know all the transmission studies that have been done have failed to show any significant transmission out of doors. So why are they still freaking out about it.

What you think is really behind all of this control is it related to the election coming up and wanting to take the economy more heart of that authority felt so gold political get old to be accused of that. No other rational reason for it. I mean, there is no scientific evidence, and only the things that have been done. Starting with lockdown the now. I mean, you compare locked out the side of God lockdown society, the virus doesn't think first of all, most of the lockdown occurred after after there was math transmission of the virus and in these community.

You know it is so those don't date or are it you you cricket you can compare the curves in different society and you could see that there they're basically they're basically the same income in terms in terms of death and and and you don't in South America, for example, you could look at Peru versus Brazil Peru lockdown very hard to barely coming out of it. Brazil was very well no wax and and and so exactly defame Sweden is kind of in the middle. If you would just raise from Sweden. They actually look at. We could go to the bath, if not better. And even without adjusting for age on Sweden has a huge population of people 85 and above.

If you don't adjust rates with with Sweden.

They certainly did better than places like Spain and Italy and England you with just the older population to protect California California.

They talk about Florida and Texas and Arizona all the time California was much more strident on shutting things down and their cases are going on not doing any better look. And the thing you we we the viruses out there and on till we've also talked about the issue of vaccination. You know that is not a good track record I woke, I hope it's better with with cold COBIT 19 versus the two other Corona viruses that cause serious respiratory infections. Article 1 from 2000 through 2003 and and learns the middle to federal another coronavirus from 2012.

We had a lot of time to work on those viruses and there's no viable vaccine. We had a couple of interesting candidates, but you know when when people talk so I can check out a good read human when animals who appear to be in by these vaccines would been given the final goal for the test they have to be infected with live virus. The immune reaction was so overwhelming that it caused a very severe lung damage so you know we we got the experience with those with those viruses. The date there is no successful human vaccines against source: one and the Middle East respiratory syndrome so I'm not saying that we get the technology will be perfected this time but no it's not, it's hardly a guarantee and the something very thing out of Sweden now. You lick the Karolinska Institute there there there major teaching, research, and food and also train.

They also have a lot of clinicians that work there was a fascinating interview by clinician researcher there who saying that she thinks Sweden has basically achieved herd immunity through its policy because what she's noticing is that the ICUs and the wards are emptying out, and yet no screens being waived that having had enough of this, that the social thing has the carrier rated dramatically their crowds on beaches, etc. and the and the and the laboratory finding is that even people who don't even appear to generate antibody fight by the available testing by the routine testing about it that works bones that were mild cases. They develop cell-mediated or T cell immunity that extremely robot and it's not even typically set in the large population survey and so she is saying that it looks like there's there's there's both clinical and laboratory evidence that the population close to her at her interview well you know what this is why I so appreciate all the work that you've been doing. You put a lot of this out on Twitter and you've written this great peace over conservative on masquerade. Yes, it spelled MAS cane. I really appreciate because I think what people want more than anything else is solid science and facts and that's what you've been providing for people. So I encourage people go to conservative you and read the article also enter is his blog, Dr. Boston. Thank you as always for being here, but I appreciate it so much.

All right you take care as well.

Thank you for being with us here on Janet my efforts today will see next time this hour Janet met for today was brought to you by vitally international. Please help us in 1200 Bibles to Christians in Asia. $5.01 five, now yes hundred square

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