The Joy Of Giving

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He weighs 123 kilos. The Russian nightmare, Nikita Kolob. Now, The Devil's Nightmare. Welcome back to another episode of It's Time to Man Up. The art and science of donor bliss. Wait, what? Yeah, the art and science of donor bliss. When I say that, what do you think about?

You probably know what the word donor means, but donor bliss. Well, let's talk about that today with me today. It's a privilege. It's an honor to have Eric and Sandra Billman with me.

Welcome to the Man Up show, guys. Thank you. Thank you. Great to be here.

Well, great to have you guys with me. Of course, we met just not that long ago at a fundraiser, and we were looking to, hoping to get some donors. Well, the fundraiser was in relation to donors. A donor, I'm trying to figure, get the right words to get the message across.

So it was at a fundraiser for Pastor Randy Simpkins who had donated his kidney to somebody, and they were raising funds to put a movie together to create awareness for the need of kidney donors. And I had the pleasure of sitting next to you guys at our table. And, of course, Eric, you gave me a copy of your book, which I'm grateful for.

But you know what? I just noticed, Eric, you didn't even sign it for me, but I didn't even get either of your autographs. You were busy signing your own book. I just literally noticed that.

I'm like, man, I didn't even get an autograph by Eric and Sandra. What's up with that? We'll have to get together again. We will. We will. Well, hey, and just so you know, I've read the book from cover to cover and went back a second time because I have my little highlighter out. And, gosh, I just went through, there were so many things in there that really spoke to me. And you guys have, when it comes to fundraising and that sort of thing, you guys have been doing this for a long, long time, right?

Talk about it a little bit. Well, I have been blessed to have had about a 30-year career in fundraising. I started at Carnegie Mellon, raising money from corporations, and that was a great job. Then I worked as a consultant helping nonprofits raise money, especially in capital campaigns. And you learn a lot working on a lot of capital campaigns, small and large. And then I've been blessed to work at some of the world's great universities, from the University of Wisconsin to Georgetown University, and then three leading universities in Australia, most recently the Australian National University.

So, Eric, let me just interrupt you right there, I guess. And what got you first interested in fundraising? What motivated that? A friend of mine at Carnegie Mellon, I had my masters from there, and a friend of mine there said, Eric, there's a job that's going to come open here that you would never consider.

But you should, because you'd be really good at it. And it was this fundraising job, and I went thinking I was just kind of networking with someone and asking questions and learning, and fortunately it was in the days where you wore a suit and tie even to do that, because she thought it was an interview and hired me. And then I was immediately immersed and baptized into this world, and I have learned a lot of lessons along the way that I certainly didn't have any idea of when I started. And I know you said a 30-plus year career now in doing this, and just looking at it from higher education to healthcare to community organizations and churches as well. So a wide variety of organizations that you have helped with. What would be one success story that might immediately come to mind that you could share?

Well, first there are so many. But one that has always stood out to me, and I was a relatively young fundraiser, and in those days at the university, you don't talk to anyone who's under 50, because those under 50 really don't have the big dollars to give. And a kid who had graduated the year before, so he was about 22, called and he said, you know, I've got a good job and I'd like to set up a scholarship in my department.

I could give you $500 a year, and I'll pledge it for five years. And just his thoughtfulness and generosity unsolicited has stayed with me my whole career, because in some ways that generosity, that understanding the importance of giving, came through in him in a remarkable way certainly wasn't prompted by anything the university did. He was just a generous guy. And that impacted you. That made a – it sounds like a lasting impact on you. It did make a lasting impact, and probably that was a part of the whole learning on my part that it's not actually about the institution you work for, it's about the donors. And there are lots of those influences in my career, some around gifts, some around mentors, but in large part they're the genesis of our book that is about donors.

Now have – and we're going to get to that, your book here shortly, but let me ask you this, and then I want to bounce over to Sondra here in a moment. So I made a note at the time, no one under 50, is that still whole true or is it because of, you know, entrepreneurship, et cetera, that you can actually, if you – I'll just phrase it this way, it, you know, targets others who are under 50 now just because of the level of success that people have had in their 20s and 30s and 40s. So are there – is your audience expanded, you know, or you're – I think a couple of things have happened. So one, probably even at that time it wasn't entirely true, that was sort of a rule of thumb. And we did have things that we did that would engage young people, mid-career people, and others because you just never know. So I think it was probably a truism even then. And today with entrepreneurship I think a very important gift and fairly large at the Australian National University that came from a 25-year-old who was busy starting his third unicorn.

And a unicorn in the entrepreneurial space is a company with revenues over $1 billion. Okay. And he was 25. Okay.

Pretty impressive. So no, that's no longer true. And we've also learned that we should be reaching out and engaging people at all levels anyway. Hmm. That's good.

Yeah, because you never know. I mean, and certainly, you know, we'd love to have the, you know, the $50,000, $100,000 donor and or, you know, even larger sums of money. But hey, you know, like I say, even with my own ministry, with Kolah for Christ Ministries, is I mean a $5 monthly donor for me is just as important and significant as a $500 a month donor, you know, to the ministry. And I mean that in all sincerity. I mean that very genuinely that – Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

No dollar amount, you know, to me is too small because it can all make a difference and make an impact. So that's pretty interesting. Sondra, let me jump over to you, Sondra. And here's – Yeah. I want to bring in you in on a more personal note, okay, because we kind of dove right into the whole art of donor, you know, in that whole space, that whole world. But let's back up for a minute and tell us about Eric and where you guys met, kind of where you're – give us a little back story on the two of you. Tell us about your relationship.

Sure. Actually, I was finishing up my master's work at the University of California, Irvine. And Eric – and I'm visiting friends in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And Eric was ushering at church. And my friend said, oh, meet Eric. He's our age.

You should meet him. And that's how we met. Did you have an immediate interest? How old would you have been at this time? So, well, Eric and I were kind of late bloomers. So I was, I think, 37, and he was 40, somewhere in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Not quite 40. So we were, yeah, right in there. First marriage for both of us. But we – yeah, we had a great conversation, and I had a boyfriend back in California, and Eric had a date later that afternoon.

And needless to say, here the two of you are all these years later. Yes. Yeah. And so – and you currently call what – where home? We're in Atlanta.

The Atlanta region, anyhow, of Georgia. Yes. Okay.

So that's home for us now. And so have you always, Sandra, been involved in fundraising yourself, or done other things beyond that? You know, actually, I – well, one, with the book, I have a very strong writing background.

So I did a lot of editing and just working to make the book itself less like a textbook and more something that everyone would enjoy reading. And part of that also is part of my professional career has been in user experience, so in software and website development. And so I tend to look at so many things from a user standpoint. And so as Eric comes home from his work and tells stories of this happened or that happened and other stories we've heard from friends who have been donors, and I hear some of the user experience, quote-unquote, stories regarding maybe how people have been treated by a nonprofit, or sometimes it's even Eric has told stories that being focused on the dollar has actually left money on the table with donors.

And it's simply because they haven't been treated properly. So that's kind of my interest when we talk about donor bliss is helping people to get the impact that they want from their giving. And that has a lot to do with being appreciated. And being treated properly by the organization. of his newly updated life story, A Tale of the Ring and Redemption.

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You can give monthly, annually, or one time. God bless you for making a difference around the world. You're listening to the Truth Network and truthnetwork.com. Eric, I'll bounce back to you for a moment. Thank you, Sondra. And I know when we were talking, it was interesting, you know, about, you know, of course, we're talking about, you know, the donation of monies. And when we met, that was a fundraiser to raise money for a movie called End the Weight, which again is for kidney donation. And those who are on a wait list for a kidney, of which Pastor Randy Simpkins was a part of that in giving one of his kidneys.

And he got the chance to meet the recipient of that kidney that literally saved his life and changed that whole family and dynamic. So, you know, being a donor goes beyond money, but your book and what inspired it, I think if I remember our conversation correctly, you're like, yeah, my idea of what we were going to write and Sondra's idea were somewhat different, but we finally came together. I'm looking at the book, I've got it in front of me, raise more money, make friends and embrace the joy of giving and talk to us for a minute, Eric, on what inspired the book and the impact that it's making and why would people want to get a copy of it? Well, those are big questions. I threw a lot at you.

I did. Well, what inspired the book? Let me just start with that. What inspired the book? You know, a number of things came together.

One, I had a mentor at Don Gray at the University of Wisconsin. And Don would say to me, Eric, it's not about the money, right? It's about finding the place where institutional priorities and donor interests create donor bliss when they come together. And I liked the phrase. And Sandra has encouraged me over years to write down some of the things I say and have learned. And so those things just came together in this book. Is this the time to tell the story of I guess it's not so much a disagreement, but to me, I look at the joy of giving the bliss that we receive when we give.

And I think that joy should be motivation enough. And so I wrote a book about the joy of giving. Sandra then, as the writer, kind of took what I wrote and polished it and made it readable to the point that you've read it twice now. But she wrote a book about how to give to make a difference. And it took about two years of discussion between us before I realized she was right. But the fact is that when we give to make a difference in something that's meaningful to us, we experience the joy of giving. So it's not really an either or, it's both.

No, it's good. And so it's interesting because I know in reading the book, because some people are listening right there, you know, donor bliss, and some people are maybe not as familiar with the word bliss. But in the book, you kind of explain that that word along with blessing are somewhat interchangeable, the word bliss and the word blessing, somewhat interchangeable.

So you could say donor blessing. And even reading the table of contents, you talk about giving, passion, partnering, participation, planning. Sandra, I'm going to bounce back to you here for a moment, because when we talk about the joy of giving, the word generosity comes to mind.

And of course, you know, Eric just said, give to make a difference. And over the years, let me just say full transparency here that for myself, it's been a journey of learning and understanding the joy of giving. So I love the title, The Joy of Giving. For anyone who gives, and it doesn't just have to be money, it can be giving of your time, giving of your talents, the giving of a kidney and the weight for a kidney. So there's a lot of different ways we can give or be a donor. But it's taken me a long time to really understand the joy of giving. But once I understood it, Sandra, I mean, oh my goodness, wow, the passion there to then want to make a difference is now instilled in me. And then I'm reminded of a scripture, a couple scriptures, one that talks about being a generous giver, you know, and that you can't outgive God. Take a minute and talk about, you know, as Eric said, you put the book in a form that is then readable.

So take a minute. What would you want to share about the book itself and why someone would want to pick up a copy of it? Well, one of the things that when Eric gave me his, you know, his version before I started working on it was he, of course, from the higher education and major gifts standpoint, had these stories of really big gifts. And of course, the book does include some of those.

But I felt that the book should have far more examples of how people, everyday people, can give in a variety of different ways. And so we, Eric and I talked through people we knew and some stories we already knew. The sewing machine project, which is kind of a lexical string throughout the book, I worked with Margaret when she started it up. We were working at the same store. And so, you know, I had my fingers in it at the time.

Eric and I moved away. So, but Margaret and I kept in touch and we have donated to the sewing machine project in addition to just time, but other things that we've donated. And so that was one of them to just kind of, this is an everyday person who saw a need and said, you know, I think I can do something about this. And so the book has, I think, several of those examples that are very enjoyable to read. And my idea is hopefully sparking interest in people to either look for those kinds of almost grassroots type things to support or find a need in their own community and get something started.

Yeah. You hit on some, find a need and fill it. Find a need and fill it. And even the content, the chapter titles, from giving to passion to partnering to participation. I just wanted to share one of the many things I highlighted. Giving of ourselves is fuel that propels us along the journey to creating donor bliss. When passion is combined with personal participation, great things are accomplished. And, you know, I have for myself, you know, not only, you know, from a biblical perspective, I'm a big believer that, you know, the first 10% I earn goes back to my house of worship. And then beyond that, you know, Jesus, when he talked about the giving of tithes and the Bible talks about the giving of tithes and offerings, whether it's a great organization, you know, if you're not a giver out there, one, I just want to challenge you, pick up a copy of the book, The Art and Science of Donor Bliss by Eric and Sandra Billman, and let it challenge you to examine, you know, where your time, talent and treasure goes and the difference that you can make once you truly understand the joy of giving.

And so there's a number of different ministries that beyond my home church, Eric, that I now give to. And so I just, the title of the book just resonates with me, Donor Bliss. What are some of the ways, or would you say, Eric, that people should consider, like maybe they're not a giver out there, what are some, where should they start?

Take a minute and talk about that. Sure, I think, you know, books and books and books have been written on finding your interests, finding your passion. And I think when we find that area of interest, you know, when we see something that breaks our heart, and we want to right the wrong, where we want to address the injustice, where we see a need in our community that would benefit everyone, all those things, start tuning into those is probably the place to start. You know, and as we tune in, you mentioned kind of the three things that we have to give, we can certainly give money, but we give of our time, we give of our talents.

I think the idea of giving of ourselves as a volunteer, getting involved to help others just with our time is a great place to start and a great way to both experience and, and see how all this works. There's a great quotation, not mine, but it is in the book that we give a little when we give of our possessions is when we give of ourselves that we truly give. So, you know, as I've meditated on giving of ourselves, right, that's, that's our attention. That's, you know, paying attention to people and corporations in the world spend trillions of dollars every year trying to get our attention.

Right. So it's a valuable precious thing to give it. Certainly our friend Randy Sinkin with kidney donation has put a whole new slant on the idea of giving of ourselves. But I think that's it is just pay attention, look around, see, see the world as it is, and what touches your heart.

That's where giving starts. That's, that's great insight, Eric, I appreciate that and Sandra beyond the book and the art and science of donor bliss beyond the book and I imagine get it anywhere right Amazon or where wherever else. And, and if somebody wanted to learn more so not just get a copy of the book and read it but even connect with you guys or learn more or even maybe consider I know you guys do consultant work and that sort of thing, where, where, how can people are almost out of time but I want to make sure people know how they can find out more about your get in touch with you guys you have a website or how can they connect with you guys. Yes, sorry, the website is donor bliss.com. So very simple there, and email to Eric is simply Eric at donor bliss.com and it's er I see. Okay, so donor bliss.com and, and they go on the website they can I guess probably even order a copy of the book right off the website but can get a whole more insight as to as to what all you guys do and how potentially that they could they could even acquire your services.

Am I correct in that? Yes, so the book is available individually through Amazon. What we have found is a lot of people like to share their share the book through their board.

And so they want 10 copies at a time or a dozen copies. And so the best way to do that would be to contact us directly again through Eric's email for anything more than just a single book. Okay. And sorry, I derailed myself here. It's all good.

It's all good. We're almost out of time anyway so. One last comment on this.

Yes, the 30 seconds. I find the book yes it's about how to give how to get joy but the biggest difference that we make when we give is in our own hearts. Giving changes us.

And I think that's the most valuable thing that I've learned in this journey with the book. 100% I agree I know I know and be learning to become a generous giver it has changed me and so I I just echo that the art and science of donor bliss Eric and Sandra Billman donorbliss.com go check it out if you want to raise more money make friends and embrace the joy of giving then get your hands on a copy of this book and check these guys out. Thank you guys for being on the man up show today. Thank you awesome and all of you out there. Thank you so much for being so faithful each every week to tune in to the man up show go out today my challenge live a God filled and have a God bless day until next time this podcast is made possible by the grace of God and your faithful prayers support and generous gifts.

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