What is a "Professional" Pastor?

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Welcome back to It's Time to Man Up with the Russian Nightmare. Well, you should learn by now the devil's nightmare, because that is my goal to create havoc in the devil's camp. And so what a privilege to have with me today, Pastor Jeremy Rose, Access Church in Dallas, Texas. Church in downtown Nashville, a very, we're going to talk about that, a very unique setting of his church and in a very unique way, very innovative way that he is utilizing the church space there in downtown Nashville within the city limits. We're going to talk about that as well. And Jeremy, welcome to the show. Yeah, man, thank you so much for having me. Looking forward to this time with you.

Yeah, it's great, man. Well, you know, we went to lunch a while back and, well, you invited me to lunch. But prior to that, I actually, my youngest daughter, Colby, at her engagement party, her and Andrew were getting engaged. I met you and your lovely bride, Jill. And man, we just had, just in the short time we were together there, I was just so intrigued by your story.

I mean, you shared some fascinating personal stories that really, for me, just illustrate that God still does the miraculous and sometimes even when it seems to be impossible. But so that's where we met. And then you invited me to lunch. So I enjoyed that conversation that night.

But man, I mean, two hours went by, like, really quick at lunch. Yeah. Yeah, we had a blast, man. We went through some of my stories, some of your story, and we both kind of walked away very encouraged in all of who God is and how much He cares for us, you know. Yeah.

And so, you know, just a little bit more back story on you, and then, you know, we'll see what you want to share with our listeners. But you're fourth generation ministry of church planters. That's kind of your background, right?

Yeah. Yeah, my great grandfather planted a few churches in the Pajal in South Carolina area, Lincoln area, North Carolina. My grandpa was a deacon, pastor in Indian Trail, North Carolina. And my dad was a minister in Greensboro, North Carolina, and Asheville, North Carolina, and Charlotte before he planted in Central Virginia.

And then I planted six months after my dad planted, which is just over 11 years ago, we planted in Nashville. And so yes, it's in our DNA and our family DNA. My brother, I had the privilege of preaching his church yesterday. He's a pastor as well. And then my sister is a professor at Liberty University.

And so, you know, in women's studies. And so we're all, it's just in us, you know, we just, we love Jesus and every one of our, those in our family, love Him and serve Him in the local church. And yeah, it's just real special, real, real special. I mean, wow, what a, what a legacy.

I mean, it was just, as I'm even just like picturing that in my mind. So great grandfather, church planter in different places, grandfather, your dad, you, your brother, your sister's up at Liberty. What, what a legacy. That is amazing.

Yeah. Lots of answered prayers from my, my, my pop Paul passed away in January of this past year, this of this year. So almost a year he's been gone with Jesus. And, uh, and he would tell us all the time when we would get together as a family of the prayers that he heard his daddy pray for his, his grandchildren and his great-grandchildren, which he never knew.

You know, he never had the chance of knowing me. My great-grandfather passed away before I was even born. We would hear those prayers that he, my grandpa would talk about of the previous, uh, father, my great-grandfather that he prayed over his, you know, the, the lineage, the heritage to the 10th generation. Yeah. Wow. Well, and I know I remember, and I think it was at lunch that, that speaking of your grandfather that, uh, who seemed to have, uh, so many, what I call pearls of wisdom and, and, uh, tell our listeners what, what did he tell you regarding, uh, like, like giving loans or borrowing things to people? Yeah.

Yeah. He tied to over 30% of his fixed income, uh, in his latter adult years. And, uh, he would, he'd always tell me very generous man. He'd say, Jeremy, uh, never, never let someone borrow something you're not willing to let them have.

Okay. And never, uh, sell somebody something and self finance it to them, unless you're willing to let them have it. Always be surprised if they actually pay you back.

Wow. And I mean, he gave away cars, he gave away homes. He, you know, and he, cause he would never just insist on followup. He was always more about the relationship, uh, than the financial outcome. Right.

And so, you know, if they give it back to him, that's wonderful, but he, he would give the loan based on them, basically in his heart, he would know they're probably not going to pay it back. Wow. Yeah.

Don't, don't necessarily expect to see it, but if you do what that's a bonus, that's a bonus. Right. That's just the bonus. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. And that way you don't harbor bitterness and resentment towards that person. You know, you, you know, you set it up to where they, they have an opportunity to pay you back. Um, and then you just, you know, you just, you're generous. He just had such a generous disposition. I mean, he gave away all the time. Any restaurant he would go to, he would give away candy and a little Jesus card that says, uh, if you, uh, meet me and forget me, you've lost nothing.

But if you meet Jesus and forget him, you've lost everything. Wow. There's, there's, there's a nugget right there. Just say that one more time for our listeners. Yeah. Yeah. If you meet me and forget me, you've lost nothing.

But if you meet Jesus and forget him, you've lost everything. Wow. That's he, it's, he had those and he gave those, he gave thousands of those things on even at his funeral. We had several of them for people to come get because they knew he, that he was known for his candy and his Jesus cards. Well, that that's, that's a nugget of truth.

They'll hold on to, and perhaps somebody can duplicate that and, and carry on his, his legacy and, and get those printed and, and hand those out. And, and you said it was interesting. I don't know if our listeners caught it.

I did. And you said he, he tithed 30%. So, so he didn't give the traditional 10% or as we know statistically by Barna and others, many of, of those who profess to be Christ followers don't even give the 10%, statistically speaking, let alone 30%. I would say, yeah, what a generous man. He gave away so much and he sponsored missionaries and orphans around the world and other ministries. He sponsored our church. I want to say it was 500 a month for, for a few years.

I believe it was maybe 300 when we were fundraising as we were moving to Nashville. He probably did that for three years, maybe. Right. And, but he did that to so many other people. I mean, anybody that ever asked him for support, he would find a way of giving them money. And he wasn't, he wasn't an extremely wealthy person in the financial sense, but he was, he just, he gave what he had, you know, it was remarkable.

I've never met anybody as special as him, man. But he was wealthy in, in, in, in another sense, wasn't he? Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

More wealth than, than anyone could even contain. Wow. That's pretty, pretty powerful stories. And, and it certainly of course, you know, set a precedent, I'm sure for, for your dad and anyone who came into contact with him, including yourself. Oh yeah.

Oh yeah. And he would have stories to tell of, of people he would meet. And even back in the day, he would, he would, he played semi pro baseball, um, sound with the Phillies, turned down multiple offers for the Brooklyn Dodgers, um, Washington senators. Um, that, uh, the Korean war, uh, averted a lot of potential baseball players back when he was signing in the early fifties. And, uh, that, uh, he, he actually in the start observer has this on record, he hit a 595 foot home run and the longest is six Oh one and it hits sports center.

Somebody hits it over like four 50, you know, four, and he hit a five 95 and I'll show you the article next time we're together. Uh, but I mean, he's just, he's one, he's a legend. I mean, the stories of my football and his generosity and just the life that he lived. Um, I mean, he, he never saw color.

He never saw race. He, he, he, I mean, I, yeah, we can just go on and on about how much he has made an impact on me, but it's not because of him. It's because the impact that Jesus made on him. Right. He's just reflecting, you know? Yeah.

The light that was inside of him that was then reflected upon everybody else he came in contact with, whether it be family or friends or a stranger, right? Absolutely, man. Absolutely. Well, that's, that's, uh, that's a note for all of us, uh, note to self on that, right? That we, we all, I sense we could all probably, Oh, I'll just speak for myself. I won't say we all, uh, could all be better.

I could be better at being salt and light for, for everywhere I go, even though that's kind of my objective each and every day. Right. And come the end of the day, be, be, uh, poured out, broken bread and poured out wine, right?

Having given your best each and every day. Right. Um, absolutely.

Well, so four generations. I'm just kind of stuck on that for a moment. That's, that's just pretty amazing. Um, cause I know you shared something with me, very, uh, interesting. Um, and I want to get to in, in a minute your transition from, from North Carolina over to Tennessee, cause there were some pretty miraculous stories that, that you shared there as well. But, uh, I want to, I want to, I want to hit on this for a moment cause you, you mentioned, I know when we were at lunch, you're just asking, you've been in, so you yourself now been in ministry for 25 years.

So you've got this legacy behind you. Grand, great-grandfather, grandfather, dad, brothers, pastors, sisters at Liberty University, 25 years. And, but you said something to me at lunch that really, gosh, it just, it struck such a chord and you used the term, correct me if I'm wrong, um, you said something to the effect, I was a quote, professional pastor for 13 years. And then you were saved 12 years ago.

So you're, you're, you're pastoring, you're in ministry pastoring for 25 years, but you got saved 12 years ago. I want people, I want that to sink in for a moment as people are listening and even consider the, the, the quote unquote phrase, a professional pastor, but let, let's do this. Let's hang on for a moment. Let's, we're going to pick up right there. We're, we're going to come back in just a moment and pick up right there. Hang tight, stay tuned.

We'll be right back with It's Time to Man Up. We so appreciate our listeners. If you will support this program with a financial gift of any amount, I will send you a personalized copy of my latest book, Nikita, a tale of the ring and redemption. Go to coloff.net, that's coloff.net, coloff.net and make your contribution today. Nikita Koloff here.

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Well, welcome back to It's Time to Man Up. Nikita Koloff here with Pastor Jeremy Rose, Access Church in Nashville, Tennessee. Jeremy, we left off mentioning, talking about how you've been a pastor, been in ministry for 25 years, but it was only 12 years ago that you experienced that genuine encounter with Jesus. Can you share a little bit of that story with our listeners and what professional, being a professional pastor, what that looks like? Yeah, yeah. I mean, you can be around certain seasoned Christians and pastors.

You can get your MDiv, your seminary training, Bible college, you know, whatnot. You can know it. And I can't remember the passage.

It might be Timothy or Peter, but it talks about how they're always growing in knowledge but never arriving at the truth. And I felt like, you know, looking back, that's who I was. I knew the right things to say.

I had the deathbed manner. You know, I had manners for those moments. I knew the words to say. I knew how to marry people off. I knew how to welcome people as they were having children. I knew how to pray over them when they had miscarriages. I had all this working knowledge of using the Bible to comfort and even to guide, but I wasn't allowing it. And I didn't know that I wasn't allowing it. But I wasn't allowing myself to truly be transformed by the truth I was sharing.

And so I was trained to be a pastor, but I wasn't letting Jesus be my pastor. You know, I was learning these things, but I was never allowing it to drop from my head to my heart. It's like the old, I think of it as like the old Coke machines where you put the coins in. But you knew they didn't drop all the way down to kind of count. You know, and so you had to like hit the machine. You would have to like almost, you know, like move it. And then hear the coins drop and then you can hit the Coke button, the big oxidized button, you would punch it and then a can would come out, you know, like mid 80s.

You know what I'm talking about, those old machines? And so that's how I feel like my heart was, is I was storing up all these coins, but the Holy Spirit 12 years ago jarred my heart. And then all that truth that I had stored up in my mind dropped into my heart.

And it's amazing the difference that Jesus makes between not being a Christian, but being a pastor and then being a Christian and a pastor. It changes everything when you believe what it is that you say. Wow. You just hit up, man, it changes everything when you actually begin to believe what it is you're professing, right? Yeah.

Oh my goodness. But you don't, I don't think a lot of people, like myself, they're just not aware that there's a disconnect. They're okay with the knowledge without the experience of the Holy Spirit indwelling them and changing them and transforming them. And the Pharisees, you know, they get beat up all the time, samples of who I was. And I think that's why Jesus used such alarming language. It's not because he hated them. Right. You know, I think it's because he deeply cared for them.

And because they were leading his people and he was using language to evoke them to consider that they might be wrong. They might be missing something. Trying to get their attention, right? Right, exactly. Indifference is hatred. Like I mentioned to you when we had lunch, I loved it when my coach got mad at me because it showed that he cared.

Right. You know, I cried because I was scared of my coach. But I felt like, you know, I saw him ignore other players and I knew that he just didn't care.

He didn't care if they were on the team or not. But if he showed your attention, even that harsh attention, it's because he wanted you to be better and he wanted you to help the team. And I feel like that's how Jesus was handling the Pharisees, you know, is he was using strong language to evoke something in them. And so my hope would be for people that share my similar story is that they would allow these strong statements of the gospel and of Christ teaching the New Testament to be heard by them and not just to be quoted by them for other people.

Because they would hear them and let it draw their hearts to attention and consider, just consider, what if I am only a professional Christian and what if I'm not experientially, spiritually a Christian? No, that's... Like, press into that. Why not? What have you got to lose? Eternity? Right, right. Hello, yeah.

Because you've been duped by the master schemer himself, Satan. Yeah. Because you grew up in a Christian home, you went to a Christian school or you went to a seminary and got a diploma and it's up on the wall and you say you believe, but has that knowledge, as you said, really dropped the 18 inches from your head down into your heart?

And if it has, if it has, then there should be evidence of that change, right? There should be some fruit. Absolutely. I like to say it this way, Jeremy. I'm like, hey, I don't need to see a whole tree of fruit.

Just show me one orange or one apple or something. Let me see one piece of evidence that you really are living your life being a Jesus follower. You know, it's interesting. I wonder, I wonder how many more, and this is just, this is just a curiosity question through our conversation. How many more, quote, professional pastors or as you just alluded to, professional Christians there are out there. And Jeremy, it just reminds me of the scriptures. You've been quoting some scriptures. It reminds me of Matthew where Jesus said, not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, right?

I mean, no, hang on, Lord. No, we prophesied in your name. We raised the dead in your name. We went to Bible school. We went to men's Bible study.

We went on that mission trip, right? And, man, lots of good works-y kinds of things, right? Well, you can almost drift yourself into thinking that you're a Christian.

Right, right. Because of what you do. And at our church, when I quote that, I even bring it home to myself. It's like even though I'm a fourth generation pastor, you know, even though you plant churches in my life. Like, it's a part for me.

I never knew you. But I planted churches. But I, you know, I had a podcast. You know, and you go on and on and on. Right. I've done all these good things. I've given away 30% of my income.

I've done fill in the blank, whatever it is. But none of that, none of that gets you to heaven. Right, man. Only through the grace of God and the person of Jesus.

And that's it. Man, I hope this conversation between you and I really provokes some of our listeners to really search their own hearts. Search me, O God.

Right? It says in the Psalms, search me, O God. In fact, one translation says put me on trial. See if there be any wicked way in me. And boy, but if you do pray that prayer, be ready for an answer, you know.

Yeah. And in Revelation chapter 2, when he talks about Jesus sends a letter to the seven churches, one is Ephesus. And so something maybe for your listeners to do is look at what that letter is in detail, because he says, you know, you've done this. You've contended for the truth.

You don't like heresy. You're good in so many things, he says, but this one thing I have against you. You've, we know it commonly as you've lost your first love.

Right. But what it means in the Greek, it breaks down this way, is you've lost the love you had at first. And if you look deeper in that word, he's speaking of the motive. He says, you've lost the reason for doing these things to begin with that you once had. And then he tells them, return to that first love or return to that original motive and then continue doing all the things you're doing.

You're doing fantastic. And so, yeah, planning church, giving away 30% of your income, but you've forgotten why. You've drifted into just performing these things without doing them from a heart of thankfulness and gratitude in response to the gospel. Right. And so return back to that heart motive and then keep doing it.

You're crushing, you're looking out of the park. Right. Keep doing it, but never forget why you're doing it. And so whether it be communion or giving offerings or digging wells or adopting children or supporting orphans or doing podcasts, no matter what it might be, make sure the motive is continued to go back to the anchor that we have in the hope of the gospel of Jesus Christ, that all this is in response to that love, in response to God, in response to Christ and his work in the dwelling of the Holy Spirit and nothing else. Not thinking that we're adding righteousness to us.

It's only the righteousness of Jesus. And that's, yeah, just look at Revelation 2 sometime and I think it really hits home what we're talking about. That's so good.

That's so good. And we've got, man, the time goes so quick. We've got just a few minutes left, but, and again, man, I hope our listeners go back to listen to this more than once.

But I want to get to this before our time is up. You know, God leads you from Concord, my own backyard, really, Concord, North Carolina, to plan a church. I believe in 2009, Axis Church, we've mentioned it, in Nashville, Tennessee. And you had mentioned to me one of the few churches actually in the downtown city, kind of the city limits. And, but give our listeners just a quick snapshot of how God does the miraculous, leads you from Concord, North Carolina, over to Nashville to plant the church. And then, who do you reach? Who's your demographic? You know, what's your goal as a church over there in Nashville?

What's your vision? Yeah, yeah, so, well, it's too easy to get to hell from Nashville right now. And so we just want to plant a church to make it a little bit more difficult for people to go to hell from Nashville.

We want to make it impossible to get there from Nashville. And so we moved there originally for a particular demographic of the hip, cool, trendy, artistic, herbal green, tattooed, pierced palm, post-postmodern, urbanite, city dweller of our culture. It's a mouthful.

Yeah, it is. That's who we moved to Nashville for, because it's kind of one of the larger hubs and magnets for the creatives. And so we sell our van, we sell a ton of stuff, and we go by faith, not really having anything at all, or any people, no financial support hardly. And we go to Nashville, and I didn't even have a place to stay that night. And on the way in, we're driving in, we're probably about 30 minutes outside of Nashville, and we've got a big Penske truck full of our stuff, and we've got three kids at the time, nine, no, no, seven, five, and three, I believe.

Okay. And we're driving into the city, and I get a phone call, and the guy's like, hey, I'm with this church, we hear that you guys are moving in to plant. Would you all like a place to stay? And I'm like, we would love a place to stay, actually. And he said, we've got a place that's open in two weeks, I believe it was, and I was like, well, do you have anything tonight? Like, we just don't have anywhere, we just want to stay in our car.

Yeah. Because we knew God was calling us to Nashville, and so we had to get here as quickly as possible. So if it meant sleeping in our car, we'd sleep in our car, we just knew we had to get there. And so he ended up calling me back saying, yeah, you can get in, and we were able to stay at that place for, I think, close to two months. We were able to have a place to sleep, and it was a great little home in Donaldson, outside of Nashville. But again, right as we're coming into the city, that provision is there. And then we had to close on our home in Concord, and we got $10,000 to show up at closing, which is about $10,000 more than what we had in the bank. Right, right. And so we were able to raise a couple thousand, maybe a little bit more, and we were about $7,000 short, $7,200 short.

And I was at this church one Sunday morning, never met this gentleman before, he wasn't a pastor there or anything, and he came up to me after the service and said, so I hear you're moving to our city to plant a church. I was like, yeah, yeah. And he was like, well, I heard you need to close on your home this week, and this was Sunday, and we closed on Tuesday, you know.

And I was like, yeah, yeah. He goes, how much money do you need to close? I said, I don't really know, I'll have to ask Jill, but it's $7,000. He's like, is $7,000 going to cover it?

I said, well, I know that $7,000 something, $7,200 will cover it for sure. And he pulls out a check in his pocket, already made out to me, already signed by him, and the memo was closing North Carolina Home. And he wrote in $7,200, folded it, a tear comes down his cheek, and he puts it in my shirt pocket and pats me on the chest. And he said, move to Nashville and do what God's called you to do. Amen. And I was blown away, man, blown away.

I guess. And I know you have, we're just about out of time, but I know you have about 50 more of those stories, so I guess someday we're going to have to have you back again sometime to share. But just know for our listeners, God still does the miraculous.

Eleven years later, I've attended Axis Church. Jeremy, I love your heart. So Jeremy, how can people find you?

Where can they dial in to connect with you? Yeah, for sure. Personally, they can find me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram at Axis Jeremy, or online at our website, www.theaxischurch.org. Well, such a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you so much, Jeremy.

I appreciate it. Thank you for having me, brother. And hey, as always, if you have yet to give your life to Jesus, today would be a good day. Thank you for tuning in to It's Time to Man Up. Men, I would like to challenge each of you to consider spending five days with Lex Luger and I at Man Camp, pursuing the heart of God. Ladies, if you're listening, we'll send your men home, better equipped to be men of God, godly husbands, and godly fathers.

God appeals to you. Give them your blessing and encourage them to sign up today at mancamp.info. Pastors, if you would like to bring Koloff for Christ Ministries and Man Up Conference to your community, go to koloff.org and email me. Remember this, It's Time to Man Up. This is Nikita Koloff, and I want to thank Clemens Karp for supporting my new show, Man Up, Saturday afternoon at 1230 on the Truth Network. This is the Truth Network.