WELDED

This is Robbie Dilmore from The Christian Car Guy and Kingdom Pursuit, where we hear how God takes your passion and uses it to build a kingdom. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just a few seconds. Enjoy it and share it. But most of all, thank you for listening and for choosing the Truth Podcast Network. It's the Russian nightmare, now the devil's worst nightmare, and your tag team partner, Nakita Kolov.

It's time to man up. How do we get there? How does it begin? In studio today, a black pastor, Pastor Derek Hawkins from Greensboro, and my pastor, a white pastor, Pastor Jay Stewart from Kannapolis, North Carolina. Stay tuned. Hey, thank you, Nakita. Man, it is such an honor to be here. We're very, very excited about these next few minutes together.

I believe there's going to be some great things happening in the next little bit. Ah, as well. Thank you, Pastor Derek, for coming in as well. Man, Nakita, it's a great honor to be here with you guys. And, man, who didn't grow up watching you on TV, man, as a kid? So, man, it's an honor. And also, I want to thank you, Pastor Derek, for coming in as well. And, man, who didn't grow up watching you on TV, man, as a kid?

So, man, it's an honor and awesome opportunity just to be here talking about our new book. All right, well, here's what I want to know, though. So you watched me growing up on TV, but did you boo me or did you cheer me?

That's what I want to know. I mean, who could not boo you and cheer you at the same time? All right, all right.

Well, people did love to hate me at one point, especially when I was the most hated guy in wrestling at one point, but then became a fan favorite with the American Dream Dusty Rhodes at a certain point as well. So, well, and I appreciate you being a fan. Thank you for that.

But I am, guys. I'm super excited about having you guys here and really talking about this topic. We're going to jump into that in a minute because it's really close to home. I know, Jay, we've known each other a long time. I'm going to share for our listeners a little of that backstory. Derek, I don't know how much of the backstory you know, but I tell you why this is close to home.

What you guys are doing, which I believe is going to just impact greatly, I believe a worldwide market. Certainly here in America, but I believe worldwide because, Derek, if you don't know some of my story, I mean, my roots began in Minneapolis in what I affectionately call, well, they call it the Minneapolis Housing Authority. That was the fancy word. But for me, it was the projects or if you want to say the ghettos of Minneapolis, you know, growing up with no dad. My dad left when I was like three.

We became a product of welfare. I mean, you know, we were one of the very last, I think actually even like the second to last white family to move out of the project. So all that to say, some of my best friends, you know, Edwin comes to mind. I actually didn't know how to say his name back then. I used to call him Edwin.

I don't know why. I'm like, my best friend, Edwin. But I mean, so, you know, all my best friends growing up, I mean, you know, black brothers, you know, and we just play. And the music, man, I bet you I have a hundred, like no kidding, a hundred albums, R&B albums up in my attic right now from Kool and the Gang to Curtis Mayfield to I'm telling you, man, I could go right down the list.

Is that a shocker for you? Yeah, Curtis Mayfield. Man, I'm blown away, man. My uncle is a crazy Curtis Mayfield fan, man. Come on.

I could go right down the list. I could give you a list of all my favorite artists, man, from the R&B day, Motown, and I'm just telling you. So I say all that to say I have a real heart for what you guys are doing, and that's why I know what you're doing is going to be amazing. Let me just give, for our listeners, just a quick back story on Pastor Jay. We first met, we go back all the way to 1993, Jay, when I first gave my life to the Lord, October 17, 1993, and began to develop a relationship from there. And here we are all these years later. Not only friends, but brothers in the Lord, and you've been a mentor of mine over the years. And then there was a season of time there where we kind of went our separate ways where the Lord called you for a season down to Alabama, called me for a season over to Tennessee. But we still stayed in contact. You come back, the Lord leads you back to Concord, Kannapolis area in 2004, and to plant a brand new church called The Refuge.

Forty people in a basement in a house, right? You want to just tell the folks just a little bit about some of that story? Yeah, so like Nikita said, we go way back, and here's a little piece of trivia a lot of people don't know. We do have a long history of a relationship.

Most people don't know, and I really don't tout it a lot. I beat Nikita four times in arm wrestling. Don't let that out of the bag. Well, here's the thing. I mean, you were dead asleep. You were sound asleep.

You have no recollection of it, but I did whip you four times while you were sleeping. So I just want to throw that out there. But hey, great relationship that we have, great friendship. And really, it's been a picture of what the Bible talks about, iron sharpening iron, because Nikita has sharpened my life. I am such a better man because of our friendship, our relationship, great mutual respect. We've walked each other through some tough times and tough places. We've prayed for each other. We've prayed for each other's families and kids for years now, decades.

It's kind of weird to say. But anyway, in 2004, while we were pastoring in LA, lower Alabama, God called us back to the Carolinas to plant a church. And it's something I never thought I would do, very unglamorous beginnings. As Nikita mentioned, we started in a basement of a house with about 40 people, and the Lord just breathed on it. In terms of church planting, we did a lot of things wrong, but we had a word from the Lord. We had a donated sound system from Big Daddy Weave, and we just began meeting.

And the presence of God came. We went from 40 to 400 people over the next nine months. We moved from the basement after four weeks to a middle school auditorium. And ironically enough, we started renting a warehouse, and the sign was still out in front of it because it had previously been Nikita's gym. It was your fitness center back in the day. Yeah, let me jump in there, Jay, because I remember when you called me. I'd just gotten back from a mission trip in South Africa. And we talked on the phone, and you're like, hey, we're planting a new church, and guess what building we got?

Dude, I don't have a clue. And you're like, we got your old gym building. I'm like, get out of here.

And you're like, no, like for real. The Lord keeps leading us back to that building. And of course, eventually, I was in Tennessee at the time, came back, felt led to come back, be a part of that new church plant, and saw the transformation. What's cool for me is I saw there's a parallel there, the transformation of that physical building, going from a gym training physical muscles to becoming a church and training spiritual muscles, and paralleled my own life journey with Jesus.

Yeah, it's crazy. It's so cool how all of that unfolded and worked out. And there we were in what was formerly Nikita's gym, and now we were training people spiritually. And we met there for 10 years in that building. You know, small, there was really no reason people should show up there.

We shared our parking lot with a scrap metal, you know, junkyard. But man, the presence of God was strong there, and we saw our church continue to grow. We went from one service to two to three to four services every weekend, and then we started planting other campuses. And all the while, just believing that one day God would give us a larger facility, and that's what He did. Yeah, and I have vivid memories of those first 10 years over on that campus.

And just, you know, the challenges of it, I was there to watch you guys walk through the challenges of that, and yet you were faithful, and the Lord sustained you through all of that. And then eventually, as you mentioned, you expand to a campus in Salisbury, North Carolina. And then eventually, too, like Brazil and even West Africa. Yeah, two campuses in Brazil now, two campuses in West Africa. One in Salisbury, which is 25 miles away. And then, I'm sure we'll get to this piece of the story, but a campus in Greensboro, North Carolina, 70 miles away.

Yeah, in fact, that was just going to lead into that. Pastor Derek, who's with us in the studio today, is here because of that expansion into Greensboro, and really kind of the merger of two churches, and the timing of all that was interesting, right? Yeah, very interesting, and it all started actually just a few months after we moved into our new campus.

So we bought 30 acres of property, built a beautiful building, and moved into it on our 10-year anniversary. And then a few months after that, I walk out after preaching. I'm always, even to this day, I'm always out on the concourse.

I don't hide. I love to be around people. And this young black man walks up to me, introduces himself as Pastor Derek Hawkins, and says that he has been asked to take over the senior pastorate of a church in Greensboro, which ironically was called the House of Refuge. And so we met that day. He said, hey, I would love to meet with you. I'd love for you to coach me, mentor me, help me prepare to take over the church. And I did and thus began this beautiful relationship that led us to places we never could have imagined.

Well, which is interesting. That just leads really right into, I'm going to pull Pastor Derek here into the conversation here in a second. Because, so, and Jay, you've been a mentor to so many, you know, myself and so many others, so many pastors, but people even outside of ministry. So Pastor Derek, boy, wisdom at an early age for you. So Pastor Derek, tell us how, okay, so God brings this 50-something-year-old white guy and a 30-something-year-old black guy together. And you were just led to, tell us about that.

What led you to seek him out or reach out to him? My wife. Okay. No, you know. The woman behind every good man. Every good man is a woman. That's right. My mother giving responsibilities to a father to take, you know, his daughter to get her hair done on one Saturday morning.

Of course, I'm sitting back, you know, enjoying my day, thinking I had the day off. And then all of a sudden she says, hey, I need you to take your daughter to get her hair done. And born and raised in Salisbury, North Carolina. My family was there and never saw this building in Salisbury that says The Refuge. It's a huge, gigantic red graphic sign that's in the center of the building that just attracted me to it. So ironically, I call the number. It has the number, but it doesn't leave me to Salisbury. It leads me to Kannapolis. I'm thinking, like, what is going on with this?

This is kind of odd. And I call, get the receptionist. And I'm just looking for a graphic, you know, something similar to our buildings in Greensboro. Of course, it was called House of Refuge. How ironic, the building.

The buildings look kind of similar in their Salisbury location. And so I called. He's like, hey, there's a guy named Marcelo who's over the graphics at the time. We scheduled a time to sit down and meet. And just from our first initial meeting, felt something on him. And he was like, hey, you need to meet Pastor Jay Stewart. And so I went back from that meeting and asked my pastors, hey, will you release me to go check out this church called The Refuge?

I don't know what it is, but I just feel like it might be something on that meeting. I came down a few months after they had opened the building and Banning Leapsher was preaching on revival. I'll never forget the message of revival. It stirred me in a way. The presence of God was so strong. And, man, I literally wept all the way home from that meeting. But then in the concourse, I went up to Pastor Jay, approached him. Of course, in a church that size, you don't expect to see a pastor come out in the middle of the concourse to greet hundreds of people coming out in between services.

Pastor Jay did that. And I just asked what he told me earlier, what he mentioned earlier. Hey, would you mind if you had some free time just to pour into me? I sent an email.

I followed up. And every month we would get together for a year and a half and just share life, share stories. And he began to pour into me, into my marriage, into my brokenness, teaching me how to be a pastor, teaching me strategies, which he's an amazing guy when it comes to strategy, and just pouring into me.

No motives, no ulterior motives, just a genuine relationship that was built over time. Yeah, and that is, I'm glad you mentioned that again. I meant to mention that. That's one of the many things I love about Jay is, you know, he doesn't hide in his office. He's not unreachable or untouchable. And that's not a knock on other pastors. That's just to say that's where his heart is at. He's a people person. Absolutely. So anyone who visits the Kannapolis campus of the Refuge, you will find him in between and or after service, and even sometimes before service, just out, you know, shaking hands, hugging people's necks, which is still okay because God's got our backs covered, covering us.

So that's one I appreciate. So that leads Jay into this year and a half of mentoring with Pastor Derek then. Yeah, so like he said, we met every single month really just talking about the transition from the founding pastors of the House of Refuge to him. And then after we had met a few months, the founding pastors asked if they could come in. They wanted to meet the guy that was pouring into their spiritual son.

Sure. And so they came down. We met. And listen, from the very first time that I met Pastor Derek and the very first time I met Bishop and Pastor Alan, I just really sensed that there was something unique about the relationship that it just felt like an instant Holy Spirit connection. And so we had these meetings, and then at times they would bring members of their leadership team. There would be sometimes 10 to 12 people meeting in my green room in my office talking about the transition, getting them ready. Again, never thinking about anything except, hey, man, I want to help this church.

Yeah. Let's help get them ready. And what we say at the Refuge all the time is we're not trying to build a castle. We want to build the kingdom. So we're just trying to build the kingdom of God. And then one day while we're meeting, in the middle of our meeting, I hear the Holy Spirit say to me, ask them if they've ever had conversations about becoming a campus of the Refuge.

And so while we're talking, I've got this internal battle going on inside of me, and I basically said to the Holy Spirit, I will not ask them that. Right. Obedience, right?

Yeah, yeah. Maybe you've never been there, maybe you're holier than I am, but I was like, I'm not going to ask them that because I don't want them to think that I've had a motive. An agenda all this time.

An agenda all this time. But anyway, long story short, the Lord wins out, and I finally ask them the question. They all start laughing. They say, hey, man, that's something we talk about all the time.

And so then all of us had a sense, man, God's doing something that we didn't see coming. And so we start having the conversations about merging, about the House of Refuge becoming a campus of the Refuge in Greensboro. And we start announcing and making plans to make that announcement and to see that merger come about. Okay. So Derek, let me ask you then, so now you guys are excited, you're having these conversations, and I've not been to the Greensboro campus, but is it, because I haven't been there, I probably should know this, but it's basically an all-black church, though, right? Is that predominantly?

Predominantly an African-American church. Okay. Yeah. So you're going to merge with this campus? Predominantly white church. Yeah.

Yeah, lily white, actually. No, I'm kidding. We have some diversity there at the Kannapolis campus, for sure. And more and more is happening. God is just moving in a mighty way. So this is all coming about, and this happens. So when did the merger actually take place? So it happened actually in November of 2016. Okay.

We made the announcement in September of 2016, though. Okay. And that kind of came about with the Keith Lamont Scott shooting.

It was an African-American. In Charlotte, right? In Charlotte.

Okay. So we kind of made, going out with the Benhams, David and Jason Benhams, if you guys don't know them, and Pastor Jay, we had this pastor's roundtable where pastors all across the country kind of come together that Pastor Jay hosts at the refuge. And from there, he invited me out to lunch. He actually invited me to the roundtable that year, said, hey, let's just go grab some lunch with a group of pastors from Texas. And we wound up getting there. He's like, hey, David and Jason Benham are here.

You don't even know how much of God that is. And from that, man, we get back, we shoot a video. It goes viral. Like, by the time we get back from eating barbecue, literally, back to the office, I mean, it was already at 10,000 views.

Yeah. The charisma call, I mean, anybody that you can name, CBN 700 Club reached out to us, Christian Post, and that's how God began to literally breathe on the story. I mean, we've never been responsible.

The only responsibility that we have is to steward the influence that God has given us and allowing us to change the narrative in America and across the world. Well, let me, Derek, I want to stay with you for a minute here, because leading into this massive project that you guys are currently working on, but there's a miracle story I want to get to. Real quick, because the churches merge, tragedy strikes, but then just two and a half years ago, as a tornado blows through Greensboro and wipes out the church, levels the church, right? Levels the church. Levels the church, and it's been a two and a half year project in the making, but God shows up in a miraculous way. I know you just recently reopened after two and a half years, and I saw where you said, that's not the end of the story. Here's the best part of the story. You guys opened the doors debt-free.

Am I right? The grace of God, man, just the whole two and a half year journey, and I don't know what I would have done without Pastor J's wisdom in navigating us through that season. Having to do worship services at two o'clock, we grew by 43% over the course of that, and it was just an amazing opportunity, and God breathed on the campus. Listen to that.

Guys, folks, listen. No church building, 43% growth, without a church building over the course of two and a half years, and now they opened the doors debt-free. What a God story that is. Brand new church, essentially.

What a great place to be in. But that feeds into, Jay, maybe I'll bring you in on this. It really kind of, that brings us to this current project that you guys are working on. Tell us about, because we said we want to talk about racial reconciliation. The two of you and the merger of these two churches are a model of that, that could be a model for America, but talk about this newest project here that you're working on. Yes, so it was obvious back in 2016 that in the midst of so much division and hatred and angst and confusion, that God wanted to write a better narrative. And for whatever reason, the Lord chose to do that through us, and our story went to national platforms. And then in 2019, again, the Lord just took it to another level of influence, when a New York journalist discovered our story on the internet, came down and interviewed us, released an article, and then the article went viral again. We had started writing a book together in 2017. We wrote the first two chapters, and then everything kind of got put on the back burner because of the tornado and everything that happened in Greensboro. But then when the article released in November of 2019, we knew it was time to write again. So we began writing again in this past summer. We landed a major book deal, and our book, Welded, forming racial bonds that last.

Say that again, what's the name of it? Welded, forming racial bonds that last, releases nationwide everywhere books are sold, and in other countries, November the 17th. There's already been tremendous excitement and feedback and response about the book, even before it releases. We've got endorsements from people like Dr. Tony Evans, and Robert Morris, and Mike Weaver from Big Daddy Weave, and Pastor John Hannah, and several others. Nikita Koloff.

Nikita Koloff. I'm going to endorse you guys. Oh yeah, but anyway, the book is releasing soon. We're very excited about it, and we believe it's going to be a real healing agent in our nation. The timing could not be better. We know there's still a lot of division. Absolutely.

Derek, let me pull you in and just our few minutes remaining here. So give us your perspective on the impact you feel this book will have regarding racial reconciliation. Give me your perspective. It's going to bring healing and also conviction deeply within our hearts. I think the one thing that the enemy's been desiring to do amongst races and ethnicities is to divide us, but it's the gospel that unites us. So all throughout scripture, we see the gospel and how Jesus uses the gospel to unite us, to bring us together. And I believe that this book is a healing agent to worlds and to nations and to cities and communities alike that need to hear healing in the midst of division. It's so easy just to stay in your own silos or just do your own thing, but I believe that there's so much health in community and also building healthy relationships that last.

That's good, Derek. And ultimately, scripture says there's one race, human race, a lot of different ethnic groups within that one human race. At the end of the day, it's not about, really realistically, we can say again and again, it's not about the color of skin. I mean, because we all bleed red.

We all bleed red, and Jesus bled red when he died on the cross. And so I'm excited for you guys. Derek, again, the name of the book one more time? It's Welded, Forming Racial Bonds That Last, and you can go to Amazon today, order the book now, pre-order the book. I'm telling you, it's going to bless your life. Do us a favor. Don't only order yourself a book.

Order yourself a book for someone of a different ethnicity from you and sow it inside of their lives. I promise you, it's going to be worth it. And maybe even post a book review, right? Absolutely.

Please post. And you guys just finished an audio version of it. I'm going to let Pastor Jay talk about that. That was a marathon. I don't even want to talk now. 60 seconds, Jay.

60 seconds. The audiobook releases at the same time along with a YouVersion seven-day Bible reading plan and a small group curriculum. But yeah, we finished recording the audiobook yesterday.

That was interesting, but it's going to be powerful as well. Yeah, that's awesome. And really, for all the listeners out there, if you're in Greensboro, Salisbury, North Carolina, Concord, Kannapolis, I really encourage if you don't have a home church, visit The Refuge. And I assure you, you walk in, you'll feel at home the minute you walk in through the doors. And of course, as was mentioned, campuses in Brazil and West Africa, and just check out TheRefuge.net.

That's the website and where you can check out The Refuge and get more information. And guys, so great to have you in the studio. I know the time just kind of flies, but man, I am excited. Yeah, thank you, Nikita. Such a joy, man. Thank you for the opportunity. We're excited about what God's doing.

Absolutely. Derek, last words? Man, I love you so much, man. I cannot even imagine the way that you've impacted my life just by your example, man. So thank you for this opportunity, man, and I honor who you are in the Kingdom of God. Well, I can tell both of you unashamedly, and to all of our listeners, I love the two of you.

I love your hearts and just what you're doing through this book and that project, and I can't wait to hear. We're believing. We're praying and believing, right, in closing. We're praying and believing for a million copies to be sold out there in the marketplace.

A million copies, and we're looking forward to seeing a major racial reconciliation through this project. God bless you both. Amen.

Love you guys. Men, I would like to challenge each of you to consider spending five days with Lex Luger and I at Man Camp, pursuing the heart of God. Ladies, if you're listening, we'll send your men home better equipped to be men of God, godly husbands, and godly fathers. That appeals to you. Give them your blessing and encourage them to sign up today at mancamp.info. Pastors, if you would like to bring Koloff for Christ Ministries and Man Up Conference to your community, go to koloff.org and email me. Remember this. It's time to man up. This is the Truth Network.