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May 23, 2020 9:00 am
Stu Epperson stops by to talk with Mike about their mutual favorite subjects, God and Basketball.
Will not overdraw stories of earned euros like you and not godly as we have a special gift grabs love basketball.
If you know him. He loves basketball and if you know Mike Swick. You know, if not for God. He also loves basketball you but usually it's Duke basketball so I'm trying to figure out is that I crappy I want to do a show on this last dance with Michael Jordan.
Clearly, UNC player just Sam like he he he is but I think pretty much everybody likes Mike okay I think I think pretty much everybody liked Mike and and in this country. I like right now I yeah actually he was.
He was the assistant coach.
I think in the dream team in 1992 and I he actually came up and he was speaking to Michael Jordan and Michael Jordan actually came over to him and he said hey coach he said I want you to help me out with something he was doing something with the shooting and and Coach K actually said you know never said anything about to Caroline I never said anything. He said he was just completely just a nice guy and and and really like that but I we actually got the founder and the president Stu Epperson on today and he has to actually play basketball for the Masters golf and he's the owner owner and the founder of the truth. I he's written several books.
The first words of Jesus in the last words of Jesus, and I just read the last words of Jesus.
Excellent excellent book and right now in front of me. I've got the first words of Jesus. So I am excited and if you haven't gotten either one of these books, I would highly recommend that you pick one up today. Robbie actually played basketball in high school and Robbie Gilmore, his son actually played college basketball in northern Arizona and also at UNCG and I told my wife that her that Robbie son played at UNCG and she was excited because she went to UNCG so probably would love Robbie really had a blast at Calvary Baptist, a school where they were undefeated for all four years, and he played better at home, and even limited to boys.
It came from Google over their names. Those were the miles and the poly voice all Marshall miles around. God was the other ones and Marshall miles and Mason Mason with an M in that that was the epic battle of the century. We were there earliest Sydney ceremony you caught on videotape and here you have these strapping giant the boys a play for Christ school my way to come from a Christian family and their dad was in that Jim 20 years prior, with Doug Hill, who was our mentor in Christian sports and basketball at Calvary and they were monocytes together and as a great testimony by the way, in so because they come from a Christian family, and all three of them were suited up in all three of them played against Calvary and Christ school have beaten everybody there on her way to a state national whatever championship okay and there they they suffered a loss at the hands of this amazing point guard player Robbie Gilmore and yet some help from Jack and Torres, and Justin is nine. Justin is on balloon again. They were coming in Calvary and this is three years Robbie senior year and here comes Christ school like powerhouse or anybody's guys out. John eroded Dr. Becker next deal with and have all my goodness it goes into overtime. Oh my God really goes with overtime and Robbie hits my son did hit a three and that over time it arguably there might've been little home. His foot was like I have still evolving as a last dance because it know but what what it those are some great memories but rotting I say things like, we want to be like Mike right not talking.
I don't know who you think or talk about what another guy, the host, if not for God.
That's the life and I like ice on fire like I love Jesus. He knows wise here and he and Neil are all praying for the other Mike that they made some kind of program about the I himself to get saved so that he won't notice so that you'll realize it the greatest chances that is that it is of great Mayor supper lamp Jesus Christ and so were praying to go find the Lord and void without the amazing that's better than six rings is better than 12 rings is better not rings because certain that's the ring of God, that's that that's fine and hope so, but this Mike founded we would be like this. Mike funny guy funny guy… So, but still having you watch the whole thing. What did you what did you think of the show. The last dance all the awesome ESPN. I thought that it was this in the rotten is and then you know you watch on ESPN2, you heard this, you heard everything the same without all the filthy language which was very tragic. A lot of kids are watching but you wouldn't know that one guy sublime watches. You don't hear out as well. You ESPN2 gave you the exact same content as Wright leapt out all the F bombs and all the GD's and all that stuff so right, so we watch the whole thing on that which is spectacular. Spectacular because in. Everyone remembers that was alive then in no awake and conscious that the where they were what was going on their own life and in it all different levels in a plan basketball buying your Jordans Michael Jordan jumpsuit buying the note watching him a Carolina watching him at play in the MBA meeting him meeting his dad which was really cool.
You have a picture of me in the ninth grade standing next to him when he was in the locker room playing against the wizards in like preseason game.
My dad got a press pass to his radio station. We went back into the locker room and hung out with those guys was awesome to see you then.
We see that course we we have a Christian vessel team called team truth in our star player is Rusty Leroux who played with Michael that last year in the last dance you see him a lot in there he sees one of our best frenzies and a close friend for years loves Jesus, has an awesome family and played on that final Vogelstein's is really need to see him and really need to play ball with a guy who played ball at that level and he actually led us to some huge victories with team truth a team that would go play college level teams we play Lees McRae Wingate. We played the liberty and then we share Jesus Christ have time, God's fire that we all lined up and we shared one guy would share his testimony. After a couple minutes in one guy would share the gospel.
I would preach the gospel and share invite people in the stands. We have people raise her hand gave a gave your life to Christ.
When team truth played much like ethics action Rusty Alderson played at some point for those different kind of teams and sewed so rust was our team is really a special time. In fact, he played with us. We were in Lynchburg playing against liberty. He got a call like almost the next day to go play for the C league of the the MBL or whatever was it was the farm system for team up in Asheville any scorch like 40 points was doing great and then the next night he got a call from Utah Jazz a while.
This is after he got the ring with Jordan was a couple years after that. Maybe a few years after that he had played some in Russia and done well really well in Europe. He I think he may have played nearly little bit but he's got a great story and then get a call to go play with jazz and some the last years of Stockton and Malone and really act in that whole group out there so so anyway what it would cool thing, but really it really brings also back those memories of what our country was going through and yeah and just amazing 9/11.
You mean all yeah me up. The amino the amazing accolades that Michael Jordan accomplished on the court and the work ethic. I mean the guy was not the goat just because he won championships but is a go because of the process which you know you were talking with me on the phone earlier sure the hard work that that he he set his mind to to get to climb over some the best teams in the history of basketball like those Detroit piston bad boy Elia Magic Johnson is Lakers and those at Larry Bird's Pacers to get to where he got the will of the emerging Orlando Magic was shack to get past all those guys. Yeah was just room spectacular yeah and if you if you can remember the first unit. Michael Jordan didn't win a championship to lease 28 years old, he'd want an NDP or two before that dominated said he was the greatest basketball player in the world. Jumping is also Larry died because he was a Celtic Larry Bird Celtic Larry Bird was told he was the coach of Larry Peyser to show to the page he was the coach of the Pacers and at last dance when Georgetown eliminated and yeah Vermont two years in row figure.
But you're right, and in 1998. That's what I was just watching. They took him to seven games extruded and that was that the that wasn't the last dance made out of in the last dance we try the Pacers were just inches away from knocking the Bulls outcoached by Larry Bird, Brian and but to Robbie's point, you are accurate. Robbie just like no one ever loses and robs riddles. I listen to your keen perception that I just of its digital dive. If you haven't heard is programs you listen, but Michael was fasting about that is, Michael Jordan played against Larry in his 1992 playoff run and 93. In those years just before Larry retired and it was in one of those games that Jordan had he put up 63 points and the Celtic still still one but Larry Bird said after that game, he's never seen a player ever like that. And I'll never see it again unbelievable and I don't know if your report said.
He said that wasn't Michael Jordan that was God disguised as Michael got his eye. He wasn't human but the fashioning part of is, we see a very important to that in Jordan's career going from being individually outstanding to then bringing in team and all yeah and you would know who John Paxson was who Steve Kerr was right who Horace Grant was right who Scott Williams or BJ Armstrong were you would know these people were. If not, Jordan realize that I guy can't beat 63 point stud beat the Celtics right doesn't beat Mikael Parrish Johnson Bird Ainge point even though they were killing him racially points doesn't beat Mo Horn and Laimbeer and Isaiah Bryant and in all those guys you know the microwave noted that the unbelievable team. It doesn't beat those guys but but Matteo what does when you get your team incident, so he started pushing his team and he kinda became a recruiter in a way said yeah what no one wants rotten.
We want rotten right.
The guy has genius, and working to make it work you work in a can of find a way even with his idiosyncrasies and chaos in his life working to find a way to bring them into this family to do what is good at so there's a real brilliant picture of it when Jordan went from being individually great to team great. Suddenly he started getting rings yeah and and he and they kept saying he didn't get any rings until he had Scottie Pippen and in Horace Grant right but he had to make those guys he had to make those guys better.
And that's when everything changed around here basketball every you gotta love this, but I convinced my knowledge, the light within the window on the awesome on the last thing, thinking we are so thankful that you've chosen to listen to if not for God with Mike's wing today and we wanted to make you aware of some other resources for you if you enjoy this program you can get Mike if not for God and on the man to simply go to your podcast that iTunes is not a firearm that made me, and tell it you want to play if once you found if not for God and subscribe something topics you may want to hear about how we thank you for listening. If not sin. The last dance guys. I hated the cut in there. When you conform about. Oh my goodness, a ruddy cut in a time but you mean there's other there so do you want to – largest massage S-one of us a note like this to show is it so inspiring to so many people, but I love the fact that on your show.
If not for God, your you're taking us to a deeper level of what what's God's message. How does the gospel apply this what we we take away in the Christian life in the body of Christ, as were in a greater gain greater warfare really we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, asked rulers of the high places in a matter fact it's funny that you say that we didn't plan this but I had actually just pulled up. First Corinthians 9 versus 24 and this is the new King James version it says do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize run in such a way that you may obtain it. And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore I run thus not with uncertainty. Thus, I fight, not as one. He beats the air but I discipline my body and I bring it into subjection less when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified and so it's it's it's so interesting is when I think of that. One of the things that I think of is that you know everything that Michael Jordan did man, he worked harder than just about anybody else, and an a in there was a time word that it was at the end of the game and and and I think the code to take an amount because there was a rule he had gotten hurt if you remember this from the show but they said you can only play seven minutes per half or work or whatever was in that time had had gone and they took him out. He wasn't in at the end of the game. They ended up winning the game, but he was furious because he said whatever he did he did it to win and what he did to win was for something that was temporary. I mean, you know it's not to last forever.
I mean, you know, other get out now. There's Lebron James. Now there's Yana seven. You have all these other guys and it's like you know people are thinking about the new stuff and and but what we do is we have the gospel of Jesus Christ and what we have in the message that we have for people is something that will last forever, and I know really that that that that shoots right to your heart because that's mean that's the reason why you do all of this right was very in the last dance. Phil Jackson got all the guys together all the families in the gym just the distancing and you have all right down on a sheet of paper. Their favorite moments like what the team meant to them and they said that Michael wrote a poem and other guys wrote different things on a sheet of paper and a foot in this this cauldron in the middle of them was a little fire pit and they'd turn lights down low and they reflected and have this time together sharing and in a they lit the fire to the culture and they burned little burnable at that moment in several guys on the interview. So this was the greatest moment of their whole. This was the greatest moment of their whole time just to greatest memory of all looking back at those times, you know, reflecting, and is this is a great way of closure as it were, but also to your point shows you that in a very real sense, they were just beating the wind in a very real sense, almost like one pastor on. I hear that you never will timeline Solomon says during his program today.
So what and and people working to say that your life you say that to the so what because there is always can be someone better than this guy. There's any another company there's any another player there's heavy you know that some guy who's going to try to get seven rings eight rings not, you know, that sort of thing. So the question is what is the ending. What is the after the last dance what's next and that's what's heartbreaking for a believer to watch that man. I'm inspired by the hard working as part of the discipline I'm like why can't Christians get along to be cohesive like those teams and work it out at the same time so there's some great lessons but at the end of day you're like that that passage in Mark a word Jesus says what is it profit is what is it benefit if a man gains the whole world. If anyone gain the whole world is Michael Jordan yet write everything he has everything right his estate. It's ridiculous and he's own basketball teams right. He's played on the best teams right his play the highest level he's got every contract with every endorsement. If it's on his body restart about it. He's getting paid big bucks. He's getting paid more for that one thing that any of us making in our lifetime right but what is it profit a man gains the whole world but loses his own soul and is he really think wow what one of value to my soul. Is any of this and it been a really rather than sit there's easy to point fingers. Those guys there on the spotlight minute talk about the pressure and you have the biggest you the biggest abusers of drugs. The biggest people. The users of marijuana and cocaine and drinkers are former pro athletes know that there because they're trying to get back to where they were never in a statement. Everyone was they were it in. They were the guy and so imagine Michael Jordan Kelly going into not being the guy and then all of a sudden for the last two months on the premier channel worldwide.
Yes. He is the guy again right.
I mean, he's probably just but guess what, the day after the last episode I saw was fascinating as I was on Instagram and someone posted hey, does anyone know of any any what's the next documentary we can watch. I really enjoy the last answer.
What's the next guess what there's any another documentary writer who knows who about and knows what about right though sudden Michael Jordan I can be the top Google search right and and so at some point on this earth. He may never going to total obscurity right what about eternity right after the leave the afterlife. And that's what's so awesome of the gospel is what God offers us is a dance that last forever. It is a is a is to fill our soul. What did Jesus say the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy. Destroying that's exactly what matter how the thief will raise you up signal make you think that this is it, that girl is that that that that that ring is it that a common visitor that raised that promotion is it right. But Jesus said that's the thief setting up to destroy you, but I have come that you might have life, and might have it more abundantly right and somewhere out there, there's a guy wash and toilets at a sicko who singing the praises of God and loving Jesus and share the gospel whose hundred times more happy right now than Michael Jordan has ever been a day in his life. That's right because he has Jesus Christ. He is the pearl of great price. He has that which does not fade that was that which will last forever because he found that my abundant life just found not in a thing or an object right or accolade puts in a material that's found in Jesus. That's right and that's that that's the hope we have as a believer in, that's why. Hopefully we can be infectious with that therefore go yeah I mean I and and and one of the things when we were to win when we saw that you know Michael Jordan always did his best and one of the things that I wanted to look at his will.
Can we apply that to the Christian life, and in not only that, but is you know I said I think we look at certain things like that are higher than others. You know like what we need to get out. Don't use the Lord's name in vain or don't commit adultery or whatever and we look at really doing our best as something that's probably really low on the totem pole but when I started to search Scripture. This week I said I think it's actually pretty important to be some verses Colossians 3 versus 23 through 24 and it says and whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men, knowing that from the Lord, you will receive the reward of inheritance and of inheritance.
For ye serve the Lord Christ. Matter fact second Timothy four verses one through four but I'm looking at one thing in particular, he says preach the word preach the word important preach the word Michael Jordan.
He said he always played to win and and and that's good.
We want to play to win. But Rob, you are actually talking about something this morning you said Genesis 17 of this shows that God has a really really high standard. When you think about it because he says that Abraham he said.
Walk before me and be perfect. That's not you know above average. That's not an A+ student athletic be perfect, but actually, as I study that more and more I realized it's an invitation.
The invitation is if you actually walk with God. Yup, he will know he's gonna take you the to perfection, and in the end, there is the opportunity that like oh my goodness. If I could just get on the phone with them and not hang up. If I can't stay in that in that place, but it's a beautiful thing, especially when II like to look at words in Hebrew, and that word walk as this picture of the king himself coming down and being with his subjects and so you know the the invitation is I can work my tail off and then I will get nowhere in. But if I will walk with them… I will give you everywhere and then minutes. That's the deal is that we want to think what we can work hard like Michael Jordan make make we can make it right like my clicker to get a better right letting the deal it. It's like he believed God was counted to him as righteousness. Absolutely.
Matter fact in incense are talking about that it's was looking in Matthew 548 and G Jesus actually says there's therefore you shall be perfect just as your father in heaven is perfect and then Philippians 312 through 14 not that I have already attained, or am already perfected, but I press on, that I may may lay hold of that which Christ Jesus has also laid laid hold of me brother and I do not count myself to have apprehended one thing, but I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, I press towards the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus, and something that that that was speaking to me this morning when I was thinking about this, and when I was thinking about it last night was I actually by mistake. One Sunday I slept in later something it happened. We went to the local Baptist Church and in in med and the pastorate actually said. He said you know what he said there was a time in your lives, and in mine where if stew with.
I wanted to tell you that God was good. I would actually have to walk up to you and say Stu God is good.
He says now with the push a few buttons and with the camera. You can put something up on Facebook on Instagram and instantly hundreds or thousands of people can now see the same message that God is good, but on the other hand, I also think I think about this in my own life is that sometimes I think that will because I put something up on Facebook because I put something up on Instagram or even because of on the radio on Saturdays will that's an excuse, and I don't have to go and evangelize and talk to people one-on-one. Just because you can do the stuff on social media. I don't think it it it's an excuse not to talk to people one-on-one.
Billy Graham is matter fact he says I've I've preached all over the world. He said get the most effective I've ever been is talking to people one-on-one and Stu and Rob you guys are both on the radio, but what you think about evangelism one-on-one I can tell you wholeheartedly that you know we do these boot camps with Bascom Trinity, or even with my own for your wherever it is that you can only go so deep right on the radio it because you're not addressing what's actually in the relationship sure. And so what like all intimacy light, including my intimacy with God. Right you know it requires give-and-take and and and it requires requires you know, this desire to want to go deeper because right you can go preach to somebody right.
But if you're not really in relationship with him. Can you really get to the depth of of what you can do when you're Norman one-on-one and so that's how I feel about it but unfortunately Stu will have a minute left for you to share what your thoughts that's how God got incentive plan it incentive program is in a person okay and John one says the word became flesh and dwelt among us, okay so that's heat. That's how he called us by sending Jesus his son. Then he says is a father sent me so I send you the house he send is that way so as not either/or right hand right right now we have to do things digitally because of the oldest restrictions in the chaos of that but it doesn't should never short fuse. The actual flesh on flesh going see if you will. That's the wide the church is called the body. The statement of the disciples were in one accord. What an automobile.
Even a Rob. He thinks it was a Honda is a census point any other unity. They were in partnership other that phrase in one accord 11 times the book of acts 20 times in New Testament love one another. There's dozens and dozens of one another's love, another serve one other care for another that is done, life on life disciple being discipleship happens here everyone listing my voice should be discipling.
Someone should have someone to silently seven Timothy analyzer pointed to upon their life for them.
You should be attending to someone should be appalled someone so you're actually right. It's but is not either/or, it's both and do it with everything God is giving you. If you with every possible tool that Michael Jordan one playing his heart on the court make his team better when champ ships. Guess what you would see them on a commercial UT Montevideo Ukraine.
He was multiplying his impact everywhere. He could write in advance Vasco we can advance Christ, the multiplier impact in person in our family since her number one right in our marriages and families and everywhere we go in a social media use app platform report Christ close to have time since we need to go at it with all of our board members right If Not for God. Thank you for listening to my fluid shows crime on iTunes is not God. More information on my contact if not God.life