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Welcome to If Not For God, stories of hopelessness that turn to hope. Here is your host, Mike Zwick. If Not For God with Mike Zwick, we have a very special guest, Mark Walker.
Congressman Mark Walker, he is running for one of the spots in the Senate, and the Republican primary is coming up very soon, but Mark Walker, we're glad to have you here today. Mike, listen, we're happy to be here back over at the Truth Studios, and thank you for the good work that you're doing and look forward to the interview today. Absolutely, and you know, to start off a little bit, I didn't realize this, but I grew up going to Calvary Baptist Church, and you said you actually worked there, is that right? Yes, I really cut my teeth as a young pastor there working with Dr. Gary Chapman.
In fact, I love Gary and Carolyn. There have been many times, even in Congress, that I would get a text from Carolyn Chapman. She's a riot, but I love those people and so blessed to be able to have a launching pad serving as a pastor for 16 years starting out of Calvary Baptist Church here in Winston-Salem. Here in Winston, a local guy. So you were in the ministry, God had called you into the ministry, and then you felt the Lord was leading you into politics, is that right?
Yes, it's exactly as much as I was called. I came to Winston-Salem in 1991, had $600 in my pocket, started working in business and finance, met my wife. I actually got lost looking for another church one Sunday morning and pulled into one church and saw this blonde sitting on the second row.
I don't remember what her daddy was preaching about that Sunday, but I acted like I did afterwards. We've been married 30 years, but yes, after about six years, I felt like God was calling us into ministry, something I swore I would never do being a Baptist preacher's kid myself, right? Served 16 years, but about eight and a half, nine years ago, I felt just as strong of a call that I did leaving the business road of the ministry as I did from ministry going into the political arena and served six years there in the U.S. House. You served six years in the U.S. House, so what was your first step?
Did you win your first race that you ever? Yes, we did, and it was interesting because we were completely ignorant of the process. I didn't know anybody in Raleigh, much less Washington, D.C. I didn't know about the donor class. I didn't know any of this. D.C. packed special interests, and we simply made a promise that we were going to win the Republican nomination without taking a single dollar from any special interest group, and not that they were lining up offering for some guy who had never had any political experience, but we were able to do that, and one of the neat things is when we arrived into Washington, D.C., of course nobody knew who we were, but we didn't owe anybody anything except the very people that had sent us there, and it allowed us to fast track.
In fact, we became the first, end of our freshman term, the first freshman ever to win the chairmanship of the largest caucus, and one of the reasons that we were able to do that and then lead the House repealing Obamacare and defunding Planned Parenthood is because we were independent of any of those restraints arriving there in the U.S. House. Wow, and you know, we, I go to the Lamb's Chapel, and so we actually, yeah, with Brian Beggars, so the, we actually just, we recently saw you come to the Lamb's Chapel. I think it was, when, when was it, or? I think it was last fall, yes, about four, five months ago. Yeah, last fall, and when you were there, you actually, because see, we believe in miracles here at the Truth Network and, but you said, you told a story about when you were younger, something happened with your brother? Oh yes, look, any time that I can brag on my dad, my dad's my hero. He'll be 77 years old, about three or four months, still pastoring and preaching, shucking the corn, as he would, they would probably say in that world, but, but yes, I, you know, relaying that quickly, growing up in the Deep South, I grew up in the Panhandle of Florida, commonly known as the Redneck Riviera, lower Alabama, a lot of different terminologies.
The rest of Florida doesn't consider as part of them. I know we've got a good friend in the studio, Steve Dees, he's from that area, the Alabama area there, but, but we, we just grew up either at church or the ball field, and one afternoon we were in the backyard, playing around, messing with some BB guns, as you would sometimes in the South, and, and I had two younger brothers, at the time I was 14, my younger brother was 12, the youngest was 10, and long story short there, we were returning, there was nothing cooler than shooting your little brother in the back of the leg and hearing him squelch, but we would do that, the rule was to shoot low, but I ended up shooting my middle brother in the eye, that ricocheted if he was behind some pine needles, God did a miracle there in his life, the night before it looked like a shattered window pane, and I remember my dad praying that God would heal him, but he also prayed something that reminds me out of Daniel 3 18, where the, the three Hebrew children are told to bow, and they're saying, you know, we believe God's going to deliver this, but then there's three words that come after that in verse 18, it says, but if not, we're still going to serve the Lord, that was my dad's attitude, whatever happened is that he was going to be faithful, the Lord, and coming in the next morning and the doctor talking about my brother's eye had fused back together, even though it looked like a shattered window pane the night before, it was just, it was a moment of really seeing God work in our life, and as a 14 year old, that was so impressionable, not just what God did, but the way my father handled it, that it did not shake his faith and was willing to do and work and walk any direction that God provided for him. Absolutely. You know, and we were looking at this, we were talking about this a minute ago, but it was a second Chronicles chapter 20. I wanted to take a quick look at that. And it says that it happened after this, that the people of Moab with the people of Ammon and others with them besides the Ammonites came to battle against Jehoshaphat. Then some came and told Jehoshaphat saying a great multitude is coming against you from beyond the sea from Syria and they are in Haazion and Tamar which is in Gedi and Jehoshaphat feared and set himself to seek the Lord and proclaimed a fast throughout all Judah. So Judah gathered together to ask to ask help from the Lord and from all the cities of Judah they came to seek the Lord.
Then Jehoshaphat stood in the assembly of Judah and Jerusalem in the house of the Lord before the new court and said oh Lord God of our fathers are you not in heaven and do you not rule over all the kingdoms of the nations and in your hand is there not power and might so that no one is able to withstand you are you not our God who drove out the inhabitants of this land before your people Israel and gave it to the descendants of Abraham your friend forever and they dwell in it and have built you a sanctuary in it for your name saying if disaster comes upon us sword judgment pestilence or famine we will stand before this temple and in your presence for your name is in this temple and cry out to you and our affliction and you will hear and save and now here are the people of Ammon Moab and Mount Seir whom you would not let Israel invade when they came out of the land of Egypt but they turned but they turned from them and did not destroy them here they are rewarding us by coming to throw us out of your possession which you have given to us to inherit oh our God will you not judge them for we have no power against this great multitude that is coming against us nor do we know what to do but our eyes are on you now all Judah with their little ones their wives and their children stood before the Lord then the spirit of the Lord came upon Jeheziel the son of Zachariah the son of Baniiah the son of Jael the son of Mattaniah a Levite of the sons and in the midst of the assembly and he said listen all of Judah and you inhabitants of Jerusalem and you king Jehoshaphat thus says the Lord to you do not be afraid nor dismayed because of this great multitude for the battle is not yours but God's tomorrow go down against them they will surely come up by the ascent of Ziz and then it goes on and and what happens is is is the situation looks absolutely impossible Jehoshaphat is saying Lord I can't do this on my own and the Lord says the battle is not mine I'm the battle is not yours Jehoshaphat but it but it's mine and all of a sudden these people who are going to come against them they start to fight against each other and and they kill each other and and God works an absolute miracle the reason I say that there are a lot of people and I've talked to a lot of people in the in the United States right now and they think that the the situation looks hopeless they think that things can't seem to be getting any better they think hey it's not going to get any better I've heard people say this uh Mark they say I don't even know what the point of voting is anymore because you know it just doesn't seem to work out but Mark is there some hope still left in the United States oh absolutely there is and uh not only uh do you look at biblical history and one correction I think I said Steve Goode Steve uh uh Steve Dees earlier Steve Goode is in the studio with us today my apologies there but but when you look at it from a from a from a historical context um not only biblical but even in our history if you look in the late 1770s and 1780s in our country people thought all hope was lost uh there was a move that drunkenness was all over the place we had turned our back all the a lot of the churches had gone completely secular in their teaching and and God brought about a couple of great awakenings there in that first century uh if you look at any great movement that happened in this country did happen in the political arena didn't happen in Raleigh or Washington DC it happened with God's people now sometimes he allows a little bit of brokenness as we've seen biblical history as well as ours to be able to refocus but absolutely and until the Lord calls us home I believe there's hope in in our and it's our job not to be discouraged because that's the whole thing that the the radical woke left wants us to be is to disengage because here's the thing evil never rests and we have to understand that this battle is much more of spiritual warfare than it is politics and and if we're only looking at sometimes I you know people ask and I've often wondered especially before I get to congress you know we send these so-called conservatives to Washington DC we wonder well what in the world happened well what I've discovered is if you're grounding or your foundation is only in your politics man you you're not going to last very long in that arena or other places it better be grounded in something much greater which you and I would agree that it would be in your faith because that's the walk but Paul or Peter talks about it there this is look don't think it's crazy when some are strange when some fiery trial encompasses we're in a battle and think about America it's the most exceptional country that it's ever existed it's the longest constitutional republic that's ever lasted and we've sent more missionaries to bring hope and healing and the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ in any country that's ever existed do you not think that enemy wants to war against that absolutely because God has put his hand in favor now we're at a crossroads founding fathers wanted a system where the checks and balances would be from the people not from the government and right now there's a battle who will be leading those checks and balances yeah I mean and and one of the things that I think that the the enemy or and and even some sense I would just say I'm not saying the left is it but I'm saying the left what they're trying to do and I notice this when you watch the media or whatever that they're trying to divide us as a matter of fact we were talking about a story before I was in we I live in alamance county and we had an alamance county republican party meeting and all of a sudden the black lives matter group shows up do you remember that or yes I certainly do in fact uh I think it was my deputy chief of staff tipped me off about 15-20 minutes I was coming from the eastern part in fact I actually spoke in a church that morning it was a sunny afternoon I remember distinctly and she said you don't want to show up here because you've got some blm protesters which only encouraged me to get there faster you know and yeah I hope that's the lord not my pride right but uh but but but engaged in that morning and they were asking a bunch of questions and we were you know in fact I actually addressed them first before I started my remarks or my speech and said whatever it is that you want to ask let's talk about it and and I remember one specific question they said well you sound inclusive tell me what your staff looks like and after named uh about five or six of wonderful people minorities that work full-time on our staff I remember saying this look I didn't I didn't hire these wonderful people because they were black and brown I hired them because they were the best I just looked in more places and I and I think sometimes we run from the challenge of the narrative that's on this progressive woke ideology as opposed to kind of dealing with it head on we shouldn't be intimidated we have the truth on our side and no do I think approach is important sometimes yes we we as believers we've got to be careful that it's not condescending or getting in somebody's faith but but the truth is the truth we want to share it in love but instead of running from those uh run from those opportunities we should run toward those opportunities to be able to share what it is that we believe whether we're talking in the faith context or whether we're talking about hope and prosperity and individualism versus collectivism and however deep you want to go in the political arena we we have that we we have the history on our side that shows limited government putting the power in the hands of the people has given this country success let's go talk about it yeah sure and and matter of fact you said there there were some firsts for you speaking of minorities at historically black college and that there were yeah I would be remiss or disingenuous if I said that when I arrived in congress that I knew this would kind of be our path but we are you know on the one side we're rated the number one America first ranked number one of all candidates we're the highest rated conservative ever to serve in the top four leadership yet at the same time God began to maybe it's my background as a pastor working in the inner cities of places like Cleveland New York and Baltimore once you see the brokenness and the poverty and the crime and some of these the families that have just been decimated it doesn't leave you so God opened up the doors for us to be able to go to places that maybe Republicans haven't gone I think we're the only Republican out of two million or certainly elected Republicans in North Carolina that has been offered and and gave the commencement of speech at one of our historical black college and university where we're the only Republican that won the united negro college president's award and I remember that ceremony and they in presenting the award they said from a stage area they said you know we don't agree necessarily with your politics but you always show up and I think that's part of the problem specifically with conservatives is we just don't show up anymore and we just assume because here's the problem if when you're dealing with communities from all backgrounds we we have access or we have streams or influencers or people in our life that share truth with us sometimes these communities if you look at the sources of information whether it's the arts entertainment the politics even our education system sometimes certain communities are not exposed to the same background that we have so part of my job is let's go share what it is that we believe and I thoroughly enjoy it in fact I could almost make the case it's the basis of why I'm running for the U.S. Senate is because we want to make sure that every boy and girl knows that their rights do not come from their federal government they come from God the creator. Absolutely and so speaking of the primary when can people start to vote? April 28th is when early voting I guess you can request an absentee ballot before then you know I'm a big believer in voter integrity and election security I think I'm the only candidate that said the 2020 election wasn't fair and square we won't have to get unpack all of that but we want to make sure that people know very well in the words of my friend Senator Tim Scott who's endorsed our Senate campaign we want to make it easier to vote and harder to cheat April 28th is early voting and then the actual primary day is May 17th. I think I recently saw you on the stage with our current Lieutenant Governor. Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson and I you know we've become just great friends I guess the backstory four years ago I actually shared his video of him addressing the city council talking about the second amendment well the next morning I just happened to check Facebook well it's a hundred thousand views or more and you're just watching the ticker and it wasn't long Fox News called me do some Fox News appearance and they said yeah do you know this Mark Robinson guy well yeah can you give us his phone number and we did and just kaboom I mean this just it's just like this guy exploded on the scene as a truth warrior and is not intimidated by the left at all but he and I we've probably done 20 to 25 events together just this year I kind of tease him I feel like I'm the opening act to Mark Robinson because I usually do the introduction or talk a little bit about and then hand it over to the big guy and he takes it home from there yeah I'm sure he he loves to have you too but there was also there was a sit-in in Greensboro and I believe you have a promotional video I believe one of those gentlemen was in the video with you is that right yeah so it goes back to what we were talking about earlier one of the great conservative civil rights leader that doesn't get any really kind of love because he doesn't vote on the progressive side is a guy named named Clarence Henderson if you look at the great pictures that are even in the Smithsonian or the African American Museum there in Washington DC he is one of the four guys that is seated there there was some guys that showed the first day he was working he was a 19 year old young man shows up the second day and the press captured that famous picture that's now iconic and it was a time where where this movement needed to take place for people from all backgrounds could use the same restroom eat at the same restaurant but this guy his life has been about the really the lord working in a way so when we launched our campaign I reached out to him he certainly was happy to endorse us but I wanted to show that what we believe as conservatives is is is good for all of our communities and by partnering with him we has allowed us to kind of really continue to push that narrative that we believe that if anybody understands or believes in individual responsibility wants to work hard this is the land of opportunity for everyone awesome and you know one of the issues that you know you hear a lot about on television and we talk about it a lot here at the Truth Network is the abortion issue yes um and I was watching a video this morning and it was a little bit about Margaret Sanger oh yes do you know much about her absolutely yeah I I know Margaret Sanger and I it makes me think of this that I actually had a chance to uh question under oath the director of Planned Parenthood at the time uh Cecile Richards and I asked her one question uh because you get five minutes you've probably seen the hearings and this kind of ties into what we've been talking about this theme seems like it could be developing I just I said Miss Richards I just have one question does it bother you that there are more African American babies aborted in New York state than actually born Miss Richards I just want to know if it bothers you she had no answer looking through her notes trying to come up with something there because the truth is it doesn't and all the way back to Margaret Sanger which was about eugenics it was it was it was about purging different races uh probably one of the leading uh white supremacists of her day that actually started Planned Parenthood and there's a lot of people in this is probably where you're going that don't even realize how Planned Parenthood that the original goal of Margaret Sanger and uh and who she was and uh of course that it carries on today because talking with a friend of mine when you have the African American population which represents about 13 percent yet about 40 percent of the abortions are from one specific minority you have to wonder you know is does Margaret Sanger hurt was her original goal being manifested I know that's a harsh way to look at this but that's the reality of it it should break all of our hearts it should and I just I was watching something that said I believe there were 42 million abortions last year around the world and it's just you know we always hear about things like human trafficking sex trafficking which is awful but a lot of people say that you know abortion is something that's legal and it's happening right in front of our faces and it there doesn't seem to be a lot that's happening with it but there are a lot of people who are praying we actually were involved with a ministry called love life where we go out and uh and we pray outside of the abortion clinics every uh every Saturday and I remember one Saturday I was there and I was praying and I said I want to pray lord right now that somebody walks out of the abortion clinic and changes their mind and I found out later on they said at that moment when we were praying a lady walked out and decided to change her mind so when I think about this I was actually driving I was going to uh Pelham North Carolina yesterday and my GPS actually was taking me to Siler city um but I realized that I was about halfway that I was going the wrong way so obviously I put the other address in the GPS and I turned around um so I guess if there's some people who are listening today and they say well maybe I'm hearing some things and I may not have been conservative before but I'm hearing some things that seem to be making sense uh uh Mark and and Mike that you know do I need to do a turnaround or does it mean that something's wrong with me or does it mean I'm just learning the truth so what do you think well we're living in a day and age in a culture um where um a knowledge an ideology that's anti-god has has really been uh implemented into our arenas and we've seen that in all the different entities but specifically in this area uh you know I want to put some hope to it let me let me let me phrase it this way the darkest night that ever spent in congress was when we were battling over legislation we had introduced some legislation that simply said this that if a baby somehow miraculously survives a botched abortion the providers then require by law to sustain the baby's life yeah I don't be too partisan this morning but in the night only three democrats voted that a baby should be allowed to live now to me that wasn't even a pro-choice pro-life this was a baby that was being born I went back to my office that night about 11 o'clock opened the top drawer wrote out three thank you cards to those three democrats because I knew what would what would happen all three were primary two were taken out the only one left the only pro-life democrat left in congress Henry Cuellar hispanic believer there in San Antonio Texas that's the problem that we have but let me tell you about the hope part right is that some of the state legislatures Texas has a heartbeat law I think personally the best law that's written is one that's coming out of Mississippi that we believe the Supreme Court for the first time in about a generation or lifetime no your lifetime I'm a little older than you are is going to be heard going to be taken up that we may make the first major battle against Roe versus Wade and it's because God's people refuse to back away from this battle they have stayed engaged and to see the amount of young people on the mall these national right to lives that have refused to go silently into the night to be able to speak for those that cannot speak for themselves I think we're going to see this battle won absolutely a matter of fact it says in the book of James it's James 2 starting in verse 14 it says what does it profit my brethren if someone has says that he has faith but does not have works and so it talks about living out our faith through our works but I'm sure there's some people who are listening today and they say well this is great they say and I I want to do something I want to get involved how could they get involved with you uh with you or your campaign Mark sure well thanks for asking uh the first thing I think just praying for our country you know you referenced James I'll go over a couple chapters to James 5 17 where it says the effectual passionate fervent forever righteous person righteous man avails or changes much uh we there there are times in our country where this country has gone to its knees collectively in prayer and I think even just 20 years ago after 9 11 we how we came together to seek God's guidance we're we're farther apart as a country right now than we were 20 years ago and I think God's people praying and seeking God's guidance is number one specifically for us people can you know it's this is in God's hands and not to be flippant about it but people can look us up they can follow us on social media at rep Mark Walker our website is walker4nc.com or if they want a direct text they can text my last name Walker to 27101 and that will provide them any information they need as we continue to move forward in this U.S. senate race that that is awesome and and and friends I I hope you I hope you do get involved you know I've met a lot of people who have said oh well you know something maybe went awry in 2020 and things are but we have to do everything that we can I heard a story years ago it was about Napoleon Bonaparte over and there was there was a battle and in the middle of the battle he realized that his his troops were losing yes and so he actually sent a message down to the bugler he said to blow the bugle for retreat and about 10 minutes went by and and nothing happened and so he said send him again tell him to blow the bugle for retreat and didn't do it finally Napoleon said I'm going to go down there myself and tell this kid to blow the bugle to retreat and so he goes down and he talks to this kid and he says blow the bugle for retreat and he said Napoleon you never taught me how to blow the bugle for retreat and Napoleon said I didn't and he says no he says well then blow the bugle to charge and they charged that day and they won and so one of the things that you know when I read the bible one of the things that Jesus never said is Jesus never taught us to retreat and so in the closing words Mark Walker we're glad to have you on but what's the final thing that you'd like to tell people before we leave the final thing and I love that story about Napoleon but I would go to Galatians 6 9 it kind of puts it in perspective when Paul says don't grow weary in well doing for a new season you will reap if you don't faint the enemy wants us to faint the enemy wants us to quit and look I'm not saying that our hope is in politics but there is a reason that God raised up people 250 270 years ago that were willing to engage the battle everybody from the black robe regiment to people like Roger Williams and William Bradford who worked in the political arena and pastored on Sundays we have a responsibility to engage the culture to engage in the public square the public arena and for people that are listening today to you and me Mike I would certainly tell them be informed understand the issues don't be careful chasing the shiny objects because this country is at a crossroads and the less that we engage the more that evil has a chance to permeate our culture and I hope that everybody will will understand obviously pursue a godly and holy path but be involved in the political arena to know what's what's going on I think it's very important for all of us absolutely and the website is walker4nc.com you can check them out on Facebook and friends I hope you get involved this year because this is a very very important election you're listening to the truth network and truth network.com
