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November 3, 2021 12:30 am
Mike is joined by Dr. Michael Brown to discuss the rapture and tribulation period.
This is Chris Hughes with the Christian perspective podcast with Chris Hughes.
We encourage our listeners to engage the culture with Jesus Christ your chosen Truth Network podcast is starting a just a few seconds. So enjoy it share but most of all, thank you for listening to The Truth Podcast Network.
This is the Truth Network welcome to Mondragon stories of hopelessness that turn to hope. Your host might swing if not for God. Today we have Dr. Michael Brownback light a fire he comes on the Truth Network every day from 3 o'clock to 4 o'clock and he has a super super exciting show on actually today were to be talking about his book came out in 2019.
But man is it relevant right now. It's called why we don't believe in a pre-tribulation rapture and act actually it's not afraid of the antichrist. Why we don't believe in a pre-tribulation rapture and he wrote the book with Craig Keener but Dr. Michael Brown what what inspired you to write this book will actually out.
Craig and I were approached by the publisher and asked if we would consider doing this computer is one of the world's foremost New Testament scholars super highly respected and both he and I were saved in churches that taught the priesthood rapture for me. I even heard that before I heard the gospel message, and as we studied the Scripture ourselves appeared to be as we realized that was not taught in the Bible and we hadn't believed it for decades but never divided over it. I work with flying Christians with pretrip risk all around the world. The publisher asked us about writing the book I knew it was timely. I knew it was important because our view of the end times and the end of the world affects the way that we live today in our attitude as believers and I know that they Craig has a heart full of love the body as to why so our goal is not to divide or tear down, but rather to unify around true and honestly and openly addressed with the Bible really says that's that's good you know it's interesting. Dr. Michael really had a Dr. Michael Yousef on the show earlier and he I like what he said.
He said II hear people who believe in the pretrip and I listen to that, he said there's people who believe in mid Traber post trip and he says I've seen all of them and he's like I don't really know which one he said they all make good points and in so one of the things that we talked about before on the show is that look it's even if you believe that there may be a pre-tribulation that that we can be rapture away before anything gets really bad, isn't it good to kinda be prepared if if if we are here during the tribulation. But, you know, I grew up as a as as pretrip. I was taught it as well and probably about a year or two ago I started. I just really got into the Scriptures and I said I just don't see this thing but in all fairness to to the other side. The pretrip is one of the verses that they'll use as Revelation 310 and he says because you kept my word I will keep you from the hour of temptation that can it come on the whole world. Dr. Brown is does that mean everybody in the church.
What is that talking about. Firstly, lips put in context it's written to the church in Philadelphia at the end of the first century as a promise to specific church in a specific time. Just like in an revelation to Jesus as deficit you don't repent come back your first love. Your lampstand will be room or to Laodicea in Revelation 3 they didn't repent his mouth. This is a promise to the faithful believers in Laodicea that was relevant to them. So there was some crisis that affected the whole world that they were kept from they were they were preserved from such a person was put in context and interestingly, people who read the book of Revelation claim that the seven churches or church ages in their mind the last days is that it is the age of Laodicea in Philadelphia is prior to that work, even if it was chronological the church age of Philadelphia according to pre-triggers have been many many years ago, but more importantly, this is something really fascinating. The specific Greek phrase. There from is used only one other time in the entire New Testament that's in John 17, where Jesus prays this prayer for the believers. Father, I don't pray that you take them out of the world that you keep them from the evil in other words, even if that was a promise to the church at the end of the age. The word is that he will keep us safely right here. If you think back to the children of Israel time of the plagues God poured out his plagues on Egypt, but he kept Israel safe out with no one he didn't take Noah out of the world he gave them an arc to survive the flood came on the world the end of reveille the end of Isaiah 26, God tells his people go in the inner chamber and high for a while until my wrath passes by. So the idea that that we will be kept from a terrible event. The same languages in blueprint you can escape these things. There are many different ways God can keep us in many different ways that we can escape the issue is, does the Bible teach a second coming in 1/3 coming or is there one event at which time would be caught up to meet the Lord as he returns to set up his kingdom on the earth.
First Thessalonians 4 when he says that we will meet the Lord, the dead in Christ will rise first, and those who live and remain caught up to meet him in the air that that Greek word for meat is often used for say when an Emperor coming in the ancient world, there came a ruler coming to the city and the entourage would go out to meet him and then escort him back. That's what's gonna happen. I can easily demonstrate that there is one event only, and the rapture and the second coming, or one event. It all happens at the same time and I can also demonstrate demonstrate the Scripture that we will go through challenges, difficulties but were made for them. This idea that all know it to be tear one of five years in the tribulation believers have been in tribulation since the first century are you going to tell me that the antichrist is going to bring people to death. Worse than Nero did with anything to behead them worse than I assisted or owned or that Christians right now would die like flies to Nigeria at the hands of of Muslim radicals that the tribulation is going to be much worse for them you Shauna, but the tribulation is God's wrath. Even if I accepted that proposition explained that God can keep us and preserve us to present his judgment on others. When I found often is there is an unhealthy escapism even heard a message from from a nationally known pastor last year and a nationally known church early in covert say hey look, don't worry I can be really bad and if it does get bad really get out of here first of you to take us out here first.
That's never happened in church history, and it's not can happen at the end.
Yeah, you know, one of the chapter in the Bible that really kind of did it for me and really kind of made me realize that a II really don't believe this pretrip thing was reading Matthew chapter 24 and mentor factors. There's a verse in Matthew 24 and I will use the NIV. It's as if those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened with the elector out of here.
Why would he have to say to write. So now the elect has to become Jewish people again and we draft them is two different groups of people addressed in Matthew 24. It would be as if I was saying Elvis and Mike want to talk to about your future. Listen, like I want to talk about your radio show; talk about your family. Over the last time I meant to different like no there there there is no context for he speaking to his disciples to the believers that, and he's talking about the coming destruction of the Temple and then talk about the end of the eight silk two different events all all squeezed together in one chapter and and it is very clear. We're waiting for the coming of the Lord increased paresthesia and yet it says in Matthew 24 after the tribulation of those days, then people will see the sign of the coming of the Son of Man.
It specifically tells us when the paresthesia is going to come is going to come after tribulation of those days and the word tribulation and Greek… It occurs many times in the New Testament. It's not some mystical word.
It's also more that just speaks of the end of the age and in fact it's it says Matthew Susan is in John 1633 Jesus says in this world will have tribulation, but be encouraged. I've overcome the world.
Paul writes in Romans 837 what shall separate us from for the love of Christ in his first thing tribulation. Now back to Romans five. He says the tribulation going to tribulation strengthens our character. In acts 1422 of Paul and his colleagues tell the believers to city in Antioch that we must go through many tribulations into the kingdom of God. Craig and I verified this story Corrie 10 boom actually shared this that after China open so there is missionary activity going on Sherman now rises to power. Foreigners have to flee the missionaries have to flee and then China opens up again and we we were able to verify the story Corrie 10 boom says that Chinese Christians were very angry with the missionaries because when the missionaries came back to see you told us that if things got really bad. We were to be rafted out. You told us that before all hell broke loose the rapture out and we went through all hell right here and we suffered terribly. We weren't rapture doubt that was false teaching. That's my concern that people ever long expectation also pretrip mentality.
Many believers are really convinced that things will only get worse from here on, until the end of the age so there's no incentive to bring about change.
There's no incentive pray for revival, they somehow this notion will you must be the last generation and things will only get worse in the last generation. Therefore, this is pray for revival. Therefore there is no reason to engage in the culture wars.
Therefore we should just be getting as many people say because rat here any minute. That's what I heard that I got say 50 years ago, literally years ago was still here so we need to do a lot of reevaluating and I don't mean to insult anyone in the holster pretrip rapture. Some of the finest Christians on the planet hold to it, but we gotta ask a question we learn this reading the Bible on her own and from other people that are a matter fact, one of the verses that they'll use the pretrip guys is Matthew 24 verse 40 on it says then two men will be in the field. One will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill. One will be taken and the other left. Watch therefore, for you do not know what our your Lord is coming, so two things with that and the first thing they say is that first part where one is taken, the other left. That proves that the rapture were to be out here before it happens. The second part when they say watch therefore you do not know what hour your Lord is coming one. A lot of the pretrip trip guys will say or girls will say is that C the beginning of the tribulation. It's can be seven years and I believe in the middle of the tribulation, the Antichrist is going to come up and say I'm God, he's that you can kind of count down to the end of the tribulation and you would know the exact day or hour, or the time when it what would happen.
What how do you answer that.
So first is in Matthew 13, the parable of Jesus tells us that the wicked will be taken judgment and the righteous will rejoice.
So Matthew 24 will be taken is likely going about taken in judgment. I caught up to meet the Lord.
That's the first thing the second thing is it's completely ludicrous to think that you're going to be able to know the exact moment all the tribulation just to get.
I have people call a shy believer in the tribulation. Now, or that when the second year the tribulation wants with it happen. So it's completely ludicrous to think that also the idea that you got it all figured out to the day in advance when the believer is with Jesus in their midst and all the prophecies about his his birth, his death, his resurrection, they still couldn't figure it out until after he rose and explained it the idea that ultimately you got it exactly right. You will be able to know the fact this is a mall and now we count 3 1/2 years is something that's ludicrous as well. But Paul writes in first Thessalonians 5 that we should know the seat we just don't know the day or the hour but we should know the season Jesus… What when you see these things happening, lift up your eyes and rejoice, because your redemption is drawing near. So we should know it's getting very very close just don't know the day or the hour.
Yemen I've actually had people when I when I told him I was to do the show. They said Mike you know I don't know if you want to talk about this or I don't. If you want to be too controversial because you know there's there's people who have beliefs on both sides. Methods I understand that but at the same time. If if we could be going through something as serious as the tribulation and Jesus warns us about it. Isn't it something that we should prepare people for right will this thing is even putting aside, will there be a specific seven year period, called the tribulation listening and put that aside, which are added to when it comes to suffering and hardship. Is it that we are more than conquerors and over commerce, or is it before things get really bad.
Will be out here. What's our attitude. I was shocked to hear this past the CSM escapist but on the biblical escapist and where you escape before things get really bad.
What will believers in the midst of war around the world have suffered as the country suffered terribly. Talk to the believers in Syria with the believers in Yemen and asked them where they rapture doubt before they went through hell on earth and suffered unimaginably in recent decades not only sell but ask yourself what your attitude influences in terms of bringing about positive change. Now do you have this thing the clock ticking clocks ticking clocks ticking right here any minute and there's no reason it note schools.
Everything is going bad. Our kids the future. Everything is going bad is that your mentality is your mentality that the light will shine brighter and brighter until Jesus comes.
Which is what Paul says in Romans 13 and John says in first John two that in the midst of gross darkness great light will shine so that the attitude is the biggest thing is for so maliciously need to be ready for the rapture. I need to be ready to meet the Lord in any moment and at any moment any of us have to be ready ready to be got.
We don't we don't have a guarantee on the next breath. So I live ready meet the Lord, and I live with urgency because I have only one life of only one life to repay my debt of gratitude to the Lord. So that's my heart that's that's the heartbeat they want to glorify Jesus. Souls hang in the balance every day. I live with a great sense of urgency but also live with a multigenerational mentality that I'm doing best fit the poor into my grandkids that I do my best to point to new generations of ministry school students that I'm doing the best to produce resources that can be used through the generations because we don't know if it's the last generation we know is one of my colleagues that it's our last generation is mill the urgency and need. What I find interesting mill and again I say this with love because I was once in this camp that for some people believe are the pretrip rapture is almost as sacred as the gospel that it was if your post trip is a different view. Talk about.
That is why believe this yet don't feel like that I disagree. If you hold to a different view of the millennium. Of course I believe in the thousand year reign of Jesus on the earth and the restoration of Israel and all of those things. But if you need dialogue assembled with different views on these things. You have your discussion, but sometimes leaving the pretrip rapture is become so sacred, maybe because of the novels the left behind series, the likely planet Earth because of the movies and things like that that is so sacred to people that you don't air challenge. I when our book came out and we started doing interviews unaffected here and I their reaction from some people was if it's as if we had slandered their grandmother.
I mean, they took it so personally was so angry your false prophet. The heretics of and nobody in the early church ever heard of anything no prominent Christian leader ever taught this and and no one ever heard of it, that the whole system wastelands of the 1800s.
And now you to make it this the sacred untouchable thing, something's wrong there. That hypersensitivity is wrong. There we need to find out okay why NY so much emphasis on the tribulation and not a billion times more emphasis on how I rather go through million tribulations in one hell and yet tend to preach get saved to avoid the tribulation.
So this is a lot built-in here need to unpack and re-examine Yemen and that's really good. One of one of the things that I've heard a lot of people talk about with with the tribulation is that it they say it's gonna be this horrible time for all the horrible things happen and it's just to be horrible for Christians but could there be some white could there be some good things that happen in the tribulation as well. Dr. Will according to Revelation 7.
If we take this as taking the great tribulation. It speaks of a multitude that no one could number from every people on the earth coming with blood wash Road into God's eternal kingdom into God's heavenly kingdom it if we read it like this with the hundred 44,000 Jews were trying to finish this paper. Find the fullness of Israel being saved the postings of six that it will be the greatest time of harvest in world history, which means it would be the greatest time of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in world history.
This notion that the Holy Spirit is taken from the earth. The church is taken from the earth and the Holy Spirit in us and strainer. Two Thessalonians 2. Remove the spirit and all hell breaks loose.
If the Holy Spirit let the earth, and how is it that more people will be saved and then any other time in history, so you better believe says in in Isaiah 60 that when gross darkness covers the earth great light shines on Israel, and great light shines in Israel because the nations are coming to the fullness of gospel like never before, so it will be the best of times and the worst of times, side-by-side tests.
Funny you say the best but the worst of times. I actually was spending time in prayer and I receive that specific word. It could be the best of times the worst of times and you and I had never even talked about the fourth 20 is I don't remember ever describing it like that until this moment. It's up wow wow video yet we have our holy little moment there you get the meant to tell you so you wrote this book with Craig Keener at two years ago than in the last book that we wrote was about weight loss and now were talking about the tribulation is what's with the best way for people to pick up this book. Dr. Brown thinking of course get all the books on my website ask Dr. Brown will JFK your Brown.org was a good Christian book.com or Amazon River River.
They order the books and this book is going to be every year that goes by that could be more relevant. It's one of these places I could get less relevant but but more relevant and Craig did a masterful job such a brilliant scholar but he broke down the clearly anyone can read it, and above all above all you're going to be edified and filled with hope as you read.
Yeah, you know, one of the things I thought about is everybody right now is talking about this vaccine and are talking about the antichrist and and and stuff like that and in the book, the title you actually say not afraid of the antichrist. We had a friend Sharon. She had a she had a question about this and she says who do you think the antichrist would be Dr. Brenner. Where do you think the antichrist would be coming from. Is it is long on the iPad. I don't know. I've seen arguments that will be Jewish and false Messiah that will be Islamic the one that the Muslims looking to mock the I've seen arguments that he'll be a European leader, nuclear, honestly, I don't know if there is a way to know if the Bible does tell us then then I'm not sufficiently convinced of which way the evidence goes, it's interesting to speculate but what we do know is in first John two says that even now so straight to this day there are many antichrists among us.
So that's the real issue. The antichrist spirit and attitude that were dealing with. By the way the publisher chose the title, not afraid the antichrist. I simply wanted to title it without leaving the pre-tribulation rapture. I'm not insulting. Pretrip decree pretrip essay were not afraid of the antichrist. We just Bible says, and there there are many beautiful reasons for believing rapture and its rich and precious document goes back to the Bible itself. God bless you. May the Lord continue to lead you and lead me as we study together. I have found to be candid, though many speak of the tribulation as if they're terrified of the thought of being there and and no believer should ever fear anything about the future if they know the Lord. No matter how terrible the matter how horrific and we know we would have have been through into this moment are living through hell on earth, God with us more than enough you will keep us preserve us and will be with him forever. And that's our hope, pain, suffering, and difficult. That's a you know, one of the verses that I look at a second Thessalonians 2 verse three it says let no man deceive you by any means for that day shall not come unless there come a falling away first, and that that that a man of sin that the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, so seems to me like the antichrist is gonna come before Jesus comes back, but Ed absolutely it's the right way read that first semitruck disabled something about the rebellion of the records and departures needs a departure church, the rapture, absolutely not. There is not a major dictionary on the planet that interprets it in that way of speaking about the final rebellion. We will be here to see that we will see many come to faith any formal way. We will see the antichrist and see his destruction. Jesus returns. Remember it's the coming of the Lord regularly gathered at his coming. That's what it says there right and then a few verses later, it says that the antichrist will be destroyed with his coming and not to a second and 1/3 coming there, not too different. Coming one second coming is when we are gathered to meet the Lord when he comes, destroy antichrist, it will happen one. Dr. Brown will thank you so much for coming on the name of the book is not afraid of the antichrist. While we don't believe in a pre-tribulation rapture on guys there. There's a lot of books that we talk about this is what I think definitely need to get on.
You can get the book and ask Dr. Brown.org ask DR Brown.org and Dr. Brown you come on every single day.
The Truth Network clock and and I were so grateful for you here at the Truth Network we got Robbie Gilmore he sees over here excited that you're on the phone. We got Stu Stu Epperson is a little excited.
Stu Epperson is looking forward to hearing the show and thank you so much. May God bless you my joy.
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