This is the Truth Network. Welcome to If Not For God. Stories of hopelessness that turn to hope. Here is your host, Mike Zwick. You cannot lose.
if you do not quit. You cannot lose. If you do not quit. And so, you know, so many times in my life, Fred, one of the things that I've thought of is that there have been many people that I've known in my life who were. Talented.
Successful, good. I mean, looks, you know, good looking, had all the talents in the world, but they ended up failing. And then I've met other people who didn't have the talent. But they just had that fighting spirit. With inside of them, and they said, I'm not going to give up, I'm not going to take no for an answer.
You know, it's funny, Fred, I've sold insurance for 22 years, and there was a girl named Jennifer when I first started with family. It was called Family Heritage, I think they're Globe Life now. But one of the things that they said about her, she was selling so much more insurance than anybody else.
Well, what's her secret? What's her secret?
Well, first thing, she worked harder, she worked more hours than anybody else did. You can't make a ton of money selling insurance or doing a business or whatever while you're sitting at home playing video games.
So, that's the first thing. The second thing that she did was they said she did not see a reason why anybody shouldn't buy life insurance. And so, it kind of reminded me: whether it's in business, Fred, or whether we're out there sharing the gospel, or whether we're praying, or whether we're praying or hoping for something, that we're praying for an answer that we want the Lord to give us. We cannot lose if we do not quit. On the other hand, We can't win if we quit right away.
When I first started off selling books door to door, we wondered, there was a guy who was not the most talented, not the brightest, not the best looking. We said, How is this guy selling so many books? And they started to go over it, and they said one of the things that separated him from everybody else was that he really wanted it. You can't stop somebody who's got that burning desire within them to succeed. and who will not quit.
What do you think? Uh Mike. My great uncle was a studio Baker Packard dealer.
Okay. I come from a long line of car dealers. My uncle was a Pontiac dealer, NASCAR race team owner. My dad started our independent dealership in 1947. And when I graduated from college, I wanted to be a franchise dealer too.
I just kind of had it in my blood. Uh, I didn't have the money. I wanted a primary franchise in a major metro market. I didn't have the money. What no way I could get One of those franchises.
But I prayed and I prayed and I prayed and I knocked on doors. And I was kind of like that persistent widow, you know, before the judge. And one day, a dealer called me and he said, I got a franchise I don't need, I don't have a place for it.
Well, that wasn't exactly true, he just didn't want it. He didn't want to be bothered with it. He was looking for bigger and brighter things, and he said, I'll give it to you.
So it was here music. You said he'd give it to you? He gave it to me. All I bought was some parts and a couple chairs in the showroom and a sign, and that was it. He gave me the franchise.
Wow.
So I took the franchise. It was American Motors, and very few of your viewers even know who American Motors was. Right.
So I decided I was going to take the franchise. I've been praying and been praying and been praying. Mike in ninety days. Chrysler acquired American Motors through a takeover and in 90 days I had a primary franchise in a major metro market that I absolutely could have never afforded. And I wasn't probably the best skilled in new car dealerships management.
But uh I decided I was going to try to hire one of the very best people that I knew that was capable of running a dealership. Knowing that I probably can't afford this guy either, you know. But at the top of my list was a gentleman from Greensboro. His name was Woodrow Fordham. I figured there was no possible way he was going to say, I'm going to come work for you.
I approached him, told him what I had, told him what I wanted to do. And you know what he said? What he said? I'm going to come work with you. Wow.
In less than two years, we were the largest Jeep dealer in the two Carolinas. Wow.
And, Mike, we decided early on that we were going to distinctify ourselves in a couple of different ways. Number one, we weren't going to wear ties and coats. That was customary in the industry back 30 years ago. You wore a coat and a tie and all this kind of stuff. We were going to dress business casual.
Okay. And we did. Another rule that we were going to violate was at the time, one of the rules was you never, ever, ever, under any circumstances, quote somebody, the price. a price over the phone. That's a real no-no.
That would get you fired back in the day quicker than anything on the face of the earth. We decided that we were going to give prices out over the telephone and then solicit those people to come into our showroom and buy from us. This is what it'll cost you. We'll tell you before you get here. No song and dance.
Now, that's kind of funny to me because I'm an insurance agent. And I've always been told, and the way I've always done it, is you don't give the price until the very end. We violated that, and that's, and all of a sudden, we started building rapport with our customers. They sent their neighbors, their friends. We had a big following over at Piedmont Airlines at the time, R.J.
Reynolds at the time. And we were giving them prices right over the telephone. They knew what it was going to cost them before they ever came in the door.
Well, and I bet they appreciated that honesty. They did. They did. Because they knew that you weren't hiding something from them. And one of the things that I look at, Fred, is I love a quote by Thomas Edison.
He says, I have not failed. I have just found 10,000 ways that won't work. And, you know, with what we're talking about in this, I think a lot of this kind of goes together. You know, the Bible says in Proverbs 24:16, it says that a righteous man falls down seven times. It says, but seven times he rises again.
In other words, it's like that lady that I was telling you about who sold insurance. She said she didn't see a reason why anybody shouldn't buy insurance. Yeah. You know, and it's like when you first started out in the Jeep industry, when you were going on knocking on doors, talking to people, or whatever, I'm sure that there were times where it didn't seem like it was going to happen. No.
But you just kept going. Let me ask you this. What gave you The tenacity. What gave you, what was it in your head that made you keep going when things got tough?
Well. Mike, I've been called the eternal optimist.
Okay. Okay. I live by faith.
Okay. I've been divinely healed four times.
Okay. Four times. And it Tell us about that.
Well, Mike, two of the times I was told that I would have to have surgery. One to was to repair a rupture and another time was a degenerated disc. I was having tremendous back pain and all that kind of stuff. And Every time somebody told me, Some doctor told me that I would have to have surgery. That's when God stepped in and healed me, Mike.
Every time. Let me ask you this, Fred. Does the Bible say anything about faith? Yeah. Yes, it does.
Faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains, Mike.
Well, and I was joking. I mean, based on everything that we do. You know, if I if I d if you didn't have faith. That there were going to be some people who said yes to Jesus Christ, you would never go out there and hit the streets. Probably not.
If I didn't have faith, that when I went out to sell insurance that day, that somebody was going to buy, I would never do it. You know, but one of my, probably my favorite passage, one of my favorite passages in the Bible is Hebrews chapter 11. And it's verse, starting in verse 1. This is what it says: it says, Now, faith. is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith, we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. By faith, Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous. God testifying of his gifts, and by it he being dead yet speaketh. And then it goes on in verse 6 and it says this.
It says, but without faith, it is impossible to please him. For he that cometh to God must believe that he is and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Well, you know, there's some things that I do that I don't really have to have a lot of faith for. I don't have to have a lot of faith, Fred, that when I step up, I stand up, that my weight's going to, I'm going to be able to hold my weight. I've done that my whole life. I don't have to have a lot of faith that when I turn on the car, it's going to start.
Now, it may not, but chances are that kind of stuff doesn't take faith. But there are some times in the Bible where I see Jesus really calling us to a higher level of faith. And I'll tell you yesterday what happened. You know, I always want to pray for people to be healed. And as we talked about before, Fred, anytime you've been divinely healed, it wasn't somebody else who healed you.
It was the Lord who healed you.
So we give all the credit to God. We give all the credit to God. God, when somebody says yes to Jesus Christ. Because unless, what is it, in John chapter 6, it says that the Lord has to draw that person. John chapter 6, verse 44, and again in verse 65, Jesus says, No man can come to me unless he first be drawn by the Spirit of my Father who sent me.
And I believe the verbiage that he uses in verse 65 is, unless he be enabled of my father. There has to be a moving and a presence of the Holy Spirit there, Mike, or it's not going to happen. It doesn't matter how you do it, don't matter how long you do it. You're not going to argue that person into the kingdom of heaven. And if you do, and if you think you have, Satan's going to argue him out quicker than you argued him in to start with, you know.
So. There has to be a presence of the Holy Spirit there or it don't happen.
Well, and in Acts chapter 3, Peter said, it says, Acts chapter 3, verse 6, it says, Then Peter said, silver and gold have I none, but such as I have, I give thee. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk. And Fred, I think a lot of times we're waiting on God to do something that he's already given us the authority and he's given us the courage to do. Like, I know some people will say, well, if God wants them to be saved, then he's going to save them. That's not how it works.
That's not how it works. The Bible says that how can they hear without a preacher? Yeah. How can they hear without some? Why would there be evangelists at all?
God would just do it himself. But it is a wonderful opportunity that we have to be able to share the gospel. When I go yesterday, and this is what I told you about yesterday, when I'm going out and I'm praying for somebody to be healed in the name of Jesus, I'm not saying, Lord, would you please heal this person? Because Jesus put it like this: He said this, and I'm trying to remember, Mark chapter 16. He said, All authority in Matthew 28, all authority on heaven and earth I have given unto you.
And the Bible says in Mark chapter 16, he says, These signs and wonders shall follow those who believe, who believe. In my name, they shall cast out demons, they shall preach the gospel to all creation, as it says. And it says, They shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover.
So, what I do when I'm going out there and praying for people, I'm not asking God to heal them. I say, Lord, I say, by the authority and by the blood of Jesus Christ, I command this knee to be healed. I command this gout to be healed. Yesterday, there was a man named Isaiah over in Eden, North Carolina. I said, I command this gout, I command this pain to leave.
the mighty name of Jesus. And then I usually quote about three Bible verses for that person because it's not me who does the healing, but it is me who does pray for the person and lay hands on the sick. Otherwise, God doesn't need us. He can just do it himself. But he's chosen to use us as vessels.
It's funny after that, and I told you this this morning, one of the greatest stories of faith in the Bible is in Matthew chapter 8, where Jesus meets the centurion and the centurion comes up to him and Jesus even says, okay, I'm going to go to your house and I'll heal the guy. Remember what the centurion says? He says, no, don't even do that. Just speak the word and my servant shall be healed.
So there's times where I pray for people over the phone who get healed, like that lady Susan, who texted me earlier about her neck and her back. And she said, it feels better today. And, you know, when I started talking to her and I started, you know, just praying with her and stuff like that, I quoted that verse because I've got to build their faith.
Some people think, hey, you've got to be with this person face to face. To face in order for to be able to pray, and God, God can do it anywhere. I've prayed for people, they had no idea. I was praying for them, Fred, and they got healed. We've prayed for people to get saved for years, and they had no idea that.
And then, all of a sudden, it's like all of a sudden, you hear it. You know, it's funny. I prayed for a guy, my mom's friend named Sally, it's her son. I think his name is Noah. She said, Would you pray that?
That my son gets saved because I wasn't able to see him, wasn't even able to talk to him. He was going into the Marines at the time, and that can be a dangerous job. But he, uh, she said in the next week, next two or three days, Mike, thank you so much for praying for my son. She said, He just got saved and he gave his life to Jesus Christ. Praise the Lord, Mike.
I tell you what, we don't always have to have all the answers. No, no, we don't. We just, like that guy Martin, I was talking about, we have to pray, we have to share the gospel, and we can't take no for an answer. What do you think? Uh, Mike, I had a uh lady had called me just a month or so ago about uh promoting the book.
Yeah. Canada. She gave me the name of her company. And um Book authors are probably preyed on by scam artists more than any group of people on the face of the earth. And when she told me the name of her company, I was sitting there at my desk, and first thing I did was type the name of her company in my computer.
and the first thing that come up was the word scam. It's the first word that came up.
So, uh Uh, I thought You know, Lord, what is this all about? Yeah. So I asked her, I said, Ma'am, let me ask you this: Do you have spiritual beliefs? I applied to ask a question to her, Mike, and she metered near zero. Mm-hmm.
So I ask her if I share a couple verses with her. And Micah was able to lead her to the Lord. And I cannot tell you how exciting that is, Mike. I just can't tell you. Here's a lady that's probably part of a fraudulent scheme, I suspect.
I don't think Google was wrong on that. I'm not sure. But it was something that I wasn't willing to be a part of financially. Right.
And yet was able to share the gospel with her and have talked to her a couple of times since. Network oh oh my you talked to her since then? Yeah. Did she ever bring up the book thing again? Uh yes, she has brought the book thing up.
Okay. And uh I mean, she's kinda like an insurance salesman, you know. Right, right, right. You know, she's probably on a commission and and Uh But We never know when God's going to open that door. We just have to be faithful, ready, and prepared.
Well, and you know, a lot of people would have said, hey, this is a scam. I'm not even going to talk to that person because this is a scam artist or whatever. Those are exactly the people that Jesus came for. He didn't come to call the righteous. He came to call the sinners.
And guess what? We're all sinners. You know, Jesus put it this way. One of my favorite passages in the Bible is this. It says that there were two men who went up to the church one Sunday.
He said there was a Pharisee and there was a Pharisee and there was a publican and a Pharisee. He said, and the Pharisee said, Lord, I thank God that I'm not like this other man. He says, I give 10% of my money away to the church. He says, I don't commit adultery. He goes on.
He says, I'm a pretty good person. But the second person, who was probably a scam artist, because that's what the tax collectors were at the time. They still may be. I'm just saying, you know, but the tax collector said, God, have mercy on me, a sinner. And Jesus said something beautiful.
He didn't say, you know, the second guy. He didn't say, no, you're messed up. You can't make it. He said, the second man. He's the one went away justified before God, not the first man.
And I think sometimes, Fred, instead of us seeing people where they are, maybe we could see them as God sees them. What do you think? Well Mike, no matter how much we dislike somebody, You know the guy that cuts you off in traffic? I don't know, the boss man or co-worker that you just flat can't stand. You know, there's always that one.
There's always that one. That's a person that God loves. God loves that person, Mike. And it's up to us to look through all that and share the gospel with them no matter who they are. Yeah.
Yeah, no matter who they are. And one of the things that I think about when I think about sharing the gospel to anyone. Is that you never know? You know, one of the things that I've learned selling insurance, and I'm sure you've seen this selling car, did you sell cars as well? I did.
You did? Yeah. Is selling cars as well. You meet some people at first and you say, this person is never going to buy in a million years. And then there's some connection that you make with that person, and they end up buying.
And then I met other people who I go, oh, this person's a buyer. They're definitely going to buy. And when you leave, when you're done, I'm going to think about it or I'm going to talk to somebody else, and they never do it. Share the gospel with everyone. The results are not up to you, Fred.
The results are not up to me. The results are up to God. But. I tell you what, and I don't know if you've seen this as well. I see this in business.
I've heard this this phrase, I've heard that it is a numbers game. It is a numbers game. And I've heard somebody else tell me they said one time. They said some will, some won't, so what next? In other words, now we care.
We're not saying so what if somebody says no to Jesus, but we have to realize that probably not everybody is going to say yes to Jesus. But even if one, Billy Graham said this one time. He said he probably spoke to a million people with the television and all that stuff. He said, and if one person got saved, it would all be worth it. Mike, God don't hold us accountable for a man's salvation.
God holds us accountable to be obedient, to sharing the gospel. That's what He holds us accountable to. That's right. Not that man's salvation. That's right.
He's a He's in charge of that. That's his role, not mine or yours. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so. It's you know what, to me, it's fun.
I enjoy it. I enjoy sharing the gospel. I enjoy just talking to people. And one of the things that I really enjoy doing is just going out every day. And to be able to just to share the good news with people, to love people, to love them where they are.
And I tell you what, one of the things that I see is that as long as I do my part. God will do the rest. Amen. That it was wonderful when I saw that guy, the guy got healed. Jesus healed the guy the other day.
But if I never would have prayed for him, it probably never would have happened. It was nice when I prayed for that lady, Susan Milner, over the phone. And she says, my neck has been hurting for years. She said, I wonder why. She said, I always pray for other people.
I wonder why I never asked God for myself.
So not only did she get healed, but she was able to receive a revelation from the Lord. You know, the guy Bill Weiss that I was talking about 23 minutes in hell, this is what he said. He said, when we share the gospel, miracles show up. Have you seen that? Oh, absolutely, Mike.
Absolutely. Can you give me an example? Go ahead. Let's see here. I was on the corner of 51st and Broadway.
a few years back. And a lady walked up, her name was uh Margaret. Margaret walked up and she's I asked her if she'd like to have a testament. She said she would. And I asked her, uh Applied the spiritual thermometer to her and she tested positive.
She'd been born again, was 100% sure of her salvation. About fifteen or twenty minutes later she came back. She said, Can I have a second testament? I said sure. She said, uh Uh, I want one for my son.
I said, okay. And I said, this is what I want you to do. And I opened it up and showed her how I wanted her to convey the gospel to him. She said, will you do it? I said, Can I?
Where is he? She said he's sitting right there, and he was sitting in the window of McDonald's. Yeah, yeah. And I went over there and shared the gospel. His name was John.
He was holding a little infant. It was his niece. And I said, John, can I get you to read some scriptures right here for me? He was ready. He was looking.
He wanted to read. And it was able to lead him to the Lord, brother. Isn't that funny? You never know. 51st in Broadway.
51st in Broadway. And I tell you what, it was so memorable to you. You remembered exactly where it happened. It's been a long time.
Well, I'm going to tell you something else that's funny. And someday we're going to find out when we get to heaven. But there was a friend of mine who said that he was out in Vegas. And this was probably around one of those times when you were out there. But one of the things that he said to me, Fred, his name was Daniel Sugg, S-U-G-G, Daniel Sugg.
And he said that he was out in Las Vegas and he said that somebody share the gospel with him, just like you do. And he said yes to Jesus. And now he's been walking with the Lord ever since. He's been helping to try to fight human trafficking. He's been walking deeper with the Lord.
Not perfect. Hey, if it's up to me to be perfect, Fred, I'm out. Me too. I'm out. And Mike, I want to share one more thing.
You know We enjoy sitting here in the studio talking about our successes. Talking about the things we've seen, the powerful things, the moving of the Holy Spirit. I saw the Holy Spirit fall on a kid one time and drag him to the ground. And you probably have too. Wow, yeah.
But Mike. I've also had my failures. Yes. You know, I've let God down so many times. That's what.
Convinced me and brought me to be a witness for Christ. You know, I was 42 years old, let God damn time, been a Christian all my life, been in church all my life, let God damn time after time after time after time after time, on and on and on. And all of a sudden, I couldn't deal with that guilt anymore. And that's when I went and enrolled in Piedmont Bible College.
So I just want you. your readers to understand that failure don't have to be the end. You know, sometimes fairness brings us to an awareness of maybe we need to change our evaluation, our approach, our skill set. I pray each day, God, help me refine my skill set today. I'm not where I want to be, Mike, and you probably aren't either.
But I'm not going to quit. I'm not going to give up. And there's going to be some failures out there. If we get prepared and we get ready, God's ready, I promise you.
Well, and I'm sure this has happened to you. There's times where afterwards, whether it was making a sale or whether it was sharing the gospel. Afterwards I said, oh no, I could have done this different or I should have done this. Right, and I'm frustrated or whatever, but guess what? That same objection, that same thing was going to come up later on.
And for me, instead of just being a failure, it became a learning experience. And Fred, if you can hold up your book for one second so the people who are watching can see it. It's Give Them Jesus, the Only Soul Winner's Handbook that You Will Ever Need by Fred Hagey. H-E-G-E. Here's the good news: you don't have to go through all the failures that we did.
You don't have to read a ton of books that are going to take you nowhere. That book lays out how to share the gospel to me better than anyone that I've ever seen. What do you think? Well, thank you, Mike. My whole intent there.
was to help you develop a skill set that you fit To your own personality type. It's not a one-size-all fits approach. It will help you adapt your skill set to fit you. And when you develop that and it fits you, you develop a comfort level there. You will feel comfortable sharing.
It don't have to be you. It's the power of God in His Word. And when you come to that realization, it gets quite simple and easy, Mike. and a lot of fun.
Well, the Bible says that the the preaching of the gospel is foolishness. Yeah. To those who are perishing. But to those who of us who are being saved, it is the power of God. And there is power in the Word of God.
There is power. It's not in us. But when we go out and we obey the Lord, the Holy Spirit leads us to places that we need to go. It takes us away from places that we don't need to go.
So make sure to pick up the book, Give Them Jesus by Fred Hagee, the only soul winner's handbook you will ever need. And Fred, I want to thank you for coming on once again today. Thank you, Mike. God bless you, brother. If not for God.
All right, for my YouTube channel. If not for God with mighty wick Just like, subscribe, and hit that notification bell. Um So you'll be alerted when we have our next video.
