This Was Never the Plan

Welcome to Hope in the Morning, turning tragedies and tears into testimonies of hope. Proverb sixteen, verse nine says, "The mind of man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps." Maybe today you're sitting with us and you have planned a meticulous path for your life, and yet you see it's getting derailed. It's not at all what you hoped. It's not at all what you had planned, and you're wondering, Lord, do you see these prayers? Do you see my righteous requests for renewed faith, for a renewed marriage?

Today we're talking about a topic that is a challenging topic. It is, it's a tender topic, and that is the topic of divorce. Nobody enters a marriage thinking it's It's going to end in divorce, and I am joined today with Venitha Reisner, and we are talking about when the plan doesn't go according to your plan. Is it still good, and can it still be redeemed? Venitha, thank you for joining us today on Hope in the Morning.

I'm excited to be here, Emily. Thank you for having me. You have quite the testimony. I was telling you before we came on that initially I found you through your memoir of sorts, and that is walking through fire. And you talk about the challenges that you faced all the way from the time you were born, really, until.

Your marriage and and the dissolution of that, and you you lost a child along the way, many sorrows, and yet the Lord held you through those various seasons. Can you kind of walk us through, in a nutshell, those first maybe thirty years of your life? Just you know, okay, you know, no big deal. I will just cover that so quickly, as quickly as I could do it.

So I was born in India and. I was born in the sixties, and the poli—I got polio at three months old.

Now the vaccine had been developed in the fifties, so the vaccine was available. But often in India, they would give the—they staggered vaccines, and they would give the polio vaccine at six months old. And so I got polio, but all the none of the doctors had ever seen it because it was. Pretty much eradicated by then, not totally, obviously.

So they, the doctor I saw, thought I had typhoid, gave me cortisone to lower my fever, and cortisone breaks down the body's immune system, and so I had a hundred and five degree fever.

So they needed to do something, and they lowered it with cortisone, but it. It spread. The polio spread through my whole body, and then they realized I had polio. But at that point, it was too late, and I was a quadriplegic essentially. And the doctors told my parents I could never even imagine sitting up.

Like my life would be just flat on my back in bed. And they told my parents to leave India. Though they said there's no medical services here for her in India. Disability is often a curse. It's a sign.

That your family has done something wrong, and they just don't offer anything.

So we left India. My dad, who was a professor at a university, took a job installing telephones in London just to get out of the country.

So, had my first surgery in England. Then my dad did get an engineering job in Canada, so we moved to Canada, which is where I started having surgeries pretty intensely.

So I had twenty-one surgeries by the time I was thirteen. As a young child, I lived in the hospital. We were in a free hospital, a Shriners Hospital, and. I lived there one time for nine months straight, flat on my back in a body cast.

So life was hard. And when I was not in the hospital, I was bullied a lot as a child, and that was that was a very painful thing for me. Just kids would call me cripple. They would make fun of the way I walked, and so I had learned to walk. Actually, so the doctors didn't think I would walk, but after all of those surgeries and lots of exercising and lots of Different things.

Actually, at first, I was a quadriplegic, but within months, I had like a little bit of movement in certain my arms and my legs, and so they were able to sort of work on that the the places where I had a little movement, transfer muscles, and that's how I was able to walk and honestly live a decently normal life. Like I, when um, well, okay, so I was pretty angry at God and did not believe in God. My Parents were Christians, but I just couldn't have faith because I thought there is no way there is a good God who would let this happen. But I came to Christ at sixteen through like just an really amazing set of circumstances. God really just spoke to me through the Scripture, but and I can talk about that in later, but I won't get into it now.

But after that, I thought, okay, God is. God is in this, and God is going to use this suffering. But in my life, I thought everybody has one big suffering. Like I was really convinced that's the way it goes down. And so I remember sitting in my car, thinking, "You know what?

These people—they don't—they don't know what their suffering's going to be, but mine's done." And it really was done for a while. Like I got everything I wanted, so I was. In some ways, a functional prosperity gospel person, in that you know you commit your way to Christ, and wow, life falls into all the right places. And so, you know, did well in school, went to college, got into college I wanted, lived in Boston for four years, walked to work, lived a very normal life, then. I went to California to grad school, met and married my classmate, and now we're at thirty, which is where you said, "Give me, give me the thumbnail." So, at thirty years old, I'm pregnant with my first daughter, Katie, and then life starts to fall apart.

Yeah, yeah. I mean. First of all, bravo for being able to get all of that in so quickly. That was great job.

So you you met and and married your classmate, you said. And again, I think I think what you just described is very par for the course for most of us as believers, where we feel like, okay, I've been through my one big thing. Surely God's not going to ask me to go through something else again. I I passed that test, or and sometimes sometimes we don't pass the test. You know, sometimes.

It is quite the struggle. To get through it, and you realize, like, it's it's a huge refinement of your faith. Because man, do our trials bring up that dross where we see, oh, I didn't even realize I didn't realize that I had some of the prosperity gospel in me. And I think we all do, if we're honest. We all kind of feel like, okay, Lord, I've been serving you, and why why are those that don't serve you why are they getting the good things?

Why do they have the good marriage? Why do they have the healthy babies? Why do they have the healthy bodies? And it's hard for us to see. God's ways in those things.

Our ways are not His ways, and so it's easy for us to get in that mindset of "I've been through my big trial.

Now it's just it's just free sailing from here." So here you are, pregnant with your first daughter, and you give birth to a healthy little girl. Yeah, and and then can you continue your story from there for us? Yeah.

So after no, before I had her, I had a miscarriage, which was the first thing of like, why would I have a miscarriage? Like. I'm supposed to have this perfect life, but then I had her, and then when I was pregnant with her, actually, my my husband had an affair.

So that was this massive, like, oh my gosh, what is happening here? This this can't be happening to me. But it was, and we went to counseling, and we really put our marriage back together. And so I was still on the path of, okay, this is going to look beautiful, and you know, our marriage really did. But then, um, I.

Got pregnant again soon after that, and had a son. Who well, I I found out when I was twenty weeks pregnant that through an ultrasound that we were going to have a boy, and found out at the same time that he had a hypoplastic left heart, which means he only had half a heart, and we needed to have surgery at birth or else he would die. And so we researched it, found the best surgeon in the country. He was in Michigan. We flew up there.

I delivered there, and things were really good. Like the surgery went great, everything was good. When we came home, he struggled for a bit, but then was doing so well. We took him in for his checkup, and the regular. Cardiologist wasn't there, but there was a substitute, and the substitute looked at him and said, "Oh my gosh, he is incredibly healthy.

He's wonderful. He's like seventy fifth on percentile on the weight chart. Like you don't need to be on all this medicine." We were waking up in the middle of the night, still like giving giving Paul medicine. He was seven weeks old, and So we stopped. Like he said, "Don't, don't.

I am not going to refill these. Like you, you are, you are out of the woods." So I was thrilled, and yet I had a friend who's a pediatric cardiologist, and he was sort of cautioning me when I told him that this was Friday afternoon, and he said, "I think he needs that medicine. Like you, maybe this man doesn't really understand what." Happened and what to do, and he said to me. You should probably get a second opinion, and Emily. This was the time when I didn't know what to do.

We were going to a baby shower. That I mean, I was just calling John just just to check in, and he's like, "Well, you could go to the ER," and I was like, "What would I tell them? Like, I don't even know the medicine Paul's on. The doctor's office is closed, and I called the doctor's office, and they were closed. And John said, "Well, you know, you could probably just wait till Monday." Well.

On Sunday night, Paul screamed in the middle of the night and went limp in my husband's arms. And he, we called nine one one. He took him in the ambulance to the ER, to the hospital. And I got on my knees and I begged God to save him. I begged God like I had never begged God for anything.

Like I'll teach Bible study. I'll do whatever. Like I was teaching Bible study at the time. And yet, and I felt this hope. I felt like, "Wow, God is hearing me.

This is going to be this amazing story." And so, I got to the hospital, and the first thing the woman I told the woman who I was, and she said, "I'm sorry, your son is dead." And that shattered me. Like my world just spun around, and I just couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that God, who I felt like promised to never leave me, to draw near to me, the God I had committed my life to, that I thought I had this. Or at least I had this idea that when you commit your life to Christ, you don't have big tragedy if you're faithful, and I realized later it was this unwritten contract, unilateral that I had signed with God. Like I give you my life, I want to serve you, and you give me everything that my heart desires—not you, but everything in the world about my family and all of those things—and that.

Contract never happened, but I was clinging to it, and I really struggled with God after that. Like, where are you? What can I trust? You know, in the face of tragedies like that. I mean, I've experienced even my own life too, Venita.

That it does make you kind of go through a season of questioning: Are my prayers being heard? Are they effective? And when we come back from from the break, we're going to talk about the fact that God does hear you, and there is there is a transformative power in switching your mindset from "what if" to "even if." So, join us again in a moment on Hope in the Morning. If you have a desire to encourage the hurting with the hope of Jesus, we invite you to join our ministry by giving a donation at hopeinthe morning. dot org.

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Join us on Hope in the Morning to hear powerful testimonies of how God is a light even in our darkest valley. We'd also love to pray for you. Simply submit your prayer request at hopeinthe morning dot org. Welcome back to Hope in the Morning. I am joined today with Veneta, and we're talking about the many trials that God has put her through.

But there is there's a life changing aspect of changing your mindset from what if this, what if that is God still faithful in this area? What if this happens? Is God faithful then? Does God hear me? And switching our mindset to even if, and I think that that only comes with maturity, and oftentimes maturity only comes through struggle.

As much as we hate those trials and those struggles, and I want to, I want to read this poem. And actually, Veneta, as I was reading your book, it kept reminding me of this poem that I wrote. And I'm like, I gotta, I gotta read this in your episode. It's called Even If, and it says. Weary mind filled with fret over things that haven't happened yet.

Anxious thoughts swirl and sway, robbing me of joy and praise. What if my loved one is too ill? What if my broken heart won't heal? What if the baby in the womb is ushered swiftly to the tomb? What if my sickness has no cure?

What if I must endless pain endure? What if my marriage can't be mended? All of these fearful thoughts attended a faith that was lacking in trust. A faith that forgot whom my Jesus is—that He is compassionate and I am His. He has not left anything to chance.

Both my joys and my sorrows are in His hands. He is mighty though I am weak, and He rescues me in waters deep.

So, with a mind now steadied with His peace, He gives new eyes for me to see that even if my loved one is too ill, even if my broken heart won't heal. Even if the baby in the womb is ushered swiftly to the tomb, even if my sickness has no cure, even if I must endless pain endure, even if my marriage can't be mended, in my sorrow I am never unattended. He is faithful and righteous and filled with grace.

So I will repent of my anxious thoughts and set my mind on worship and praise, and that's rooted in Philippians four verses six through seven. It says, "Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and pleading with thanksgiving, let your requests be made to known be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus." And Veneta, as I as I heard you talk about your loss of Paul, I think that that is how we all often feel when you you're doing just that. You're bringing your supplication before the Lord. You're thanking Him for the life of Paul, and you are begging Him to sustain it.

And yet, in in the Lord's sovereignty, He says no. I'm not going to do that. And man, how that breaks our hearts! I mean, as you said, it just shatters when you when you think, Lord, how is my will not aligned with yours? How do you not see this to be good?

How how did the Lord use that season? Here, you had you had already been through polio, you had been through unfaithfulness with your spouse, and yet restoration in that period, and and then. The the diagnosis of Paul's heart and his death. How did the Lord shake your faith in that time and refine it? Yeah, well, you know it's funny.

I was teaching Bible study at the time and.

So I felt like my faith needed to look pretty, even though I felt so far from God. Like I just, I, I just never even imagined this would happen. Like when we were in the hospital and he was having surgery, I thought, well, I don't know, but I felt like God was going to save him then. But then this was a doctor's mistake. Like this wasn't even, didn't even have anything to do with the surgery.

So. In my heart, I was God felt so distant, but in my thank you letters, I would say, you know, we're trusting God. Like people would ask me, "How are you doing?" And in anybody listening, if you're in any kind of leadership, you don't know how to grieve publicly because people. I think we feel like we need to be strong for God, and I have learned we don't. God does not need a defender, but I thought I needed to be that.

And so, the more that I would try to defend God publicly, but inside feel very abandoned, the more there was this huge chasm in my faith, and I feel like some hypocrisy for sure. But then one day. I was desperate. I was in the car, and I just hadn't really cried out to God because I would say I didn't walk away from God, but I tell people I leaned away, which means I didn't want to meet God's gaze. I didn't want to look at God.

I didn't want to talk to God, and yet I began the conversation with just, "Help me. I I can't live like this. I I need you." And God met me, and the the presence of God filled my car in a way that I cannot even describe. But it was supernatural. I felt like the Holy Spirit was like, "I will comfort you through this.

I will walk with you through this." And yes, this isn't. What you thought it would be, and yet I'm still here, and I'm still in control of this, and that was super comforting to me. And and at the same time, I had heard a sermon by a pastor named John Piper, who he was talking about the sovereignty of God, and I didn't really think God was sovereign, like God was in control of all things before. Like I had read a book in which this woman said God never makes a mistake, and I remember thinking, well. I don't know if I'd go that far.

Like, there are some mistakes, and yet, I really became convinced through all of this that God doesn't make a mistake, and you know, not a sparrow falls to the ground apart from the Father's will. And that was a hard thing at first, but it was the most comforting thing to me to recognize. This is not random. This is not God's plans D for my life, and all of a sudden He's trying to clean it up so I will feel better. God has a purpose in this, and that, even though I didn't have any idea what it was, and I still don't, there was this sense that it was bigger than me.

Yeah, and that was incredibly comforting. I think there are many people, especially unbelievers, actually, that try and reconcile the evils in the world, the heartaches in the world, and even their their the existence of a God. They try and reconcile those things, and a lot of times, they want to reconcile it by saying, "Well, God is just if there is a God, then He's not sovereign over everything because God would not allow children to starve. God would not allow these women to be abused. God would not allow This person to suffer with cancer, children to suffer with cancer, and yet, and I hear this in your story too, Veneta.

I think that the the more you know about the character of God, which is what is revealed through His Word, the more that we realize there's actually a lot of comfort and security in knowing God is sovereign even over the bad things because you know it wasn't random, it wasn't a mistake. And we're gonna talk in a minute about about ultimately your divorce. But one of the things that you had said in your book that I thought was so beautifully stated, you said that. You realized that your husband's rejection was ultimately God's protection, and I thought, "Wow, if we could just, as believers, see that in more of our circumstances." But on the other side, too, with what you were saying, especially with being in leadership within any ministry. Feeling like you have to have this pretense of I've got it all together, and I know just how to answer these questions.

I know just how to face these trials and these circumstances. I don't think that it grows our faith like that, and I don't think it grows the faith of those around us. We've actually had we have we have nine pastors as part of our ministry here, and we've had more than one pastor, but one pastor in particular that stands out to me. Who he lost a child, he had a stillborn daughter, and he says, "You know, I wish I could tell you that I knew exactly what to say in that moment to my wife, and I didn't. I fell on my knees and said, 'Lord, I don't know what to do, and I don't know what to say.'" And I, I wish, and and part of why we do hope in the morning is because we want to encourage Christians be vulnerable before the Lord, be vulnerable before one another.

That's how we can actually step into each other's sorrows, how we can lessen each other's burdens. But if we act as if the burden is not there or it's lighter than it is. How can we serve one another effectively? How how have the different trials you've been in, because you've been through a very wide myriad of trials? How has that equipped you personally to step into the suffering of other people in various situations?

I think it's helped me step into people's sufferings just by remembering how hard it was, like. I don't have pat answers. One because I hated them when I was going through suffering. Like you know, trust God anyway. And at my son's funeral, somebody quoted Romans eight twenty eight to me.

Now Romans eight twenty eight for those of you who aren't familiar with it is all things work together for those who love the Lord and are called according to His purpose. Amen. That is so true, but. People slap it around like it is the answer to everything, and like I pretty much I don't think I have ever quoted that to someone in their pain because it's not helpful, right? And so I think just understanding that.

When I'm struggling, I don't need theology. I need presence. And you know, we see even in the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus is asking his disciples, "Watch and pray." You know, that's what we need is people who are there, who are willing to weep with us and sit with us and pray for us and pray with us, rather than trying to make us turn. Like I think the big thing is we all want to be the one to cheer somebody up to help them see, and that's that's not necessarily our role. There may be times when God is calling us to do that, but I think it is a work of the Spirit, and so we need to be sensitive to.

The Spirit, rather than thinking we are going to be their Savior because they have a Savior, and it's not us. Yeah, and I mean mourning with those who mourn. I think that's something that exactly what you said. We oftentimes feel like we need to push them out of the mourning into the rejoicing, but Scripture is clear that yes, we rejoice with those who rejoice, but we mourn with those who mourn, and I think. I think that there is a lot of wisdom and maturity that comes with a believer who is able to put themselves in their shoes as best they can and have that compassion, have the compassion like Christ did, and say, "Man, I am so sorry." That you lost your son, I am so sorry.

That you are facing these health challenges, I am so sorry. That your marriage is not what you had prayed it would be, and can I just can I sit with you? Can I have coffee with you? And it doesn't need to be a Bible study. You don't need to turn it into a Bible study.

It's exactly what you said, Vanessa. It's having that presence and the willingness, the willingness to get uncomfortable. Honestly, I think that that's what so many of us are not willing to do. And if you're Listening to this on the radio, we're going to continue into the portion about divorce, which again is a topic that is not—it's not widely talked about in the church, and yet it affects believers too.

So, how do we step in? How do we step in and help heal somebody's hurting heart that divorce leaves a chasm in somebody's heart and in their life that Maybe you don't know. Maybe if you've never been through divorce, maybe if you've never been a child of divorce, you don't understand the ache and the hole that is left there. And I want us to ask ourselves today: like, are our words healing or wounding in those situations?

So going forward with that, you know, as as we were saying, I I really did appreciate how you put that. In your book, as far as your husband's rejection was the Lord's protection, and nobody, as we mentioned earlier, nobody enters into a marriage thinking, "Oh, this is going to end poorly. This is going to end in divorce." Nobody thinks that, and, and yet you were faced with that, and you. You know, you were you were a believer. You had already, you had already faced walking through infidelity and and the forgiveness required for that, which is no easy thing.

That's not a small thing, and. You know that is something that is—it's Christ-like for us to do that, especially when there is repentance involved. That is what that is what Christ would want. But doesn't make it easier. Doesn't make that something that makes the the betrayal just go away.

So, can you can you walk us into that season of your life? Yeah.

So I would say forgiveness is the most life thinking thing I've ever done, and yet the hardest thing I've ever done.

So forgiveness for me began, you know, with my husband's first affair, and just recognizing for me forgiveness is. Giving up the right to hurt you for hurting me, so it's not reconciliation. Even though I did reconcile with my husband at that point, and it's so it's not reconciliation and restoration. It doesn't mean you're going to be best friends, but it does mean you're not going to exact revenge, and and want to hurt them. For hurting you, and for me, it was letting go of all of the hard things.

And for me, it began with a process. Honestly, so it was, I had a journal and I started writing all the things that he had taken from me and everything that was hard. And then when I had finished writing, there was so much I had to write. But then I was ready to look at it and say, "This is what I'm forgiving. This is what what I want to nail to the cross," and that really freed me, and it was.

It was a one-time thing for me in that sense. Like there was this act of I am going to forgive and and saying it before God, but there is also the everyday, you know, stuff keeps coming up. Forgiveness is almost never a one and done. Like it's it. I am done.

I've forgiven. There is no more anything. Like we have to keep fighting. Just. Bitterness and wanting to rehash and rehearse, and I learned every time I wanted to rehearse something that had been done to me, that God was calling me to release it to Him.

So when I wanted to say, "But I, I remember this," or you know, there is flashbacks to hard things, you just need to keep releasing it to the Lord, which is. Hard, but so freeing. Like we never want to do it. Like most of us want to hold on to grudges because it kind of feels good, but then it's poison to us.

So when we release it, it's pretty amazing. And so that really put our marriage back together, which was incredible. But then the hard thing was.

Okay, so it's fifteen years later. Ah, the same thing happened.

So my now ex husband was seeing someone else. He was having an affair. I didn't know about it for a while, and then when I found out. Life pretty much fell apart because at this point I had two adolescent daughters, and they were angry. I was angry, and anger was spilling out everywhere, and he.

His company was headquartered in another state, so he had met this person at work, and he had been commuting some—not that much—but then his commuting became more and more and more. And I didn't, you know, he kept saying work was busier and things, but that was to see her.

So then he moved to the other state, and we were plan. Our family was planning on moving for him with his job, but obviously we did not do that, and. Life just was so hard, and yet, and I did not want to forgive again. Like it felt like, okay, I forgave once. I don't want to do this again.

But I realized it was like poison to me. Every time I would rehearse it, it felt good for the moment, but then it was pulling me away from God. Like you can't be bitter, and Confess your own sins to God, and I don't think you can be bitter and have joy in God. Like those things don't coexist. And so I realized I wanted God, and I needed to let go of bitterness to really feel God's presence and grow in this and lean on God.

And so I made the decision. To forgive, and it was the same sort of process of writing down everything that was hard, everything that I felt like he had taken from me.

So this was a longer list because our life completely. Change, you know, I'm a single parent with physical issues, adolescent daughters who are difficult, nobody around to support me, and and that was, I would say, the hardest time in my life by a mile in terms of just trying to make it through the day, trying to. Wake up and face the day, and yet, at the same time as it was the hardest time, it was the most intimate time with God. You know, because for me, you know, we we talked about what if, what if the worst happens, and that's what we ask, and that's what you asked in our poem, your poem. And I remember asking that same question when I was on a just a personal retreat with the Lord.

Just what if? And from me, the worst had happened already.

So it's like, what if other worst happens? My son had buried a son. My husband had left, and it felt like. My nightmares have come true, and yet I sensed God was like. But even if, even if in all of this, if you see that perspective, you can rejoice in the Lord, and.

I was able to do that, and you see Habakkuk at the very end of his book. You know he says, "Even though the fig tree does not blossom and there are no grapes on the vine, the olive crop fails and the fields produce no fruit, yet I will rejoice in the Lord." So it's like even if the world is falling apart, I can rejoice in the Lord. And I learned I could do that, and God drew closer than. I could ever have imagined truly, and so forgiveness was for me this doorway into letting go and leaning into God. Did you find that in that season, part of what you were able to rejoice in is that your identity became more deeply rooted in Christ and maybe less tied up with with being a wife as well?

Or how did that affect your identity? Yeah, well, my identity felt like it was totally smashed at that time. Like my, I had built my identity on being like a good Christian wife, like, and you know, I was homeschooling our kids, teaching Bible study.

So much of my identity was in serving God and what things looked like. And then when people were wondering, you know, what had happened to our marriage, and my kids were falling apart, and so many things. I felt like all those things that I had built so carefully, this this pretty Christian picture, they had been shattered, and so my I had to put my identity somewhere else, and I realized the only place to put it is in Jesus, and that was very freeing because you realize if the worst happens and God is faithful and on the throne and. You realize you can go through anything, and so it really reshaped my identity to be more about just being in Christ rather than what other people thought of me, which was so much where my identity was placed. Do you do you think now having lived through that and seen kind of that you had wanted to have, and I don't think you're alone in this by any means, but wanted to have that like perfect facade, especially with being in ministry, where you wanted to look like you know I'm I'm serving my husband, we have a good marriage, I pray faithfully for him, we're raising our daughters to know the Lord and the fear and the admonition of the Lord, and and then when that was stripped away, there is this um.

I don't know if I want to call it a stigma, but kind of in the church, of oh, you get like that red letter, like oh, you've been divorced. What happened? And and I correct me if I'm wrong in this, but I thought that I remembered from from your book you saying that you wanted to be very careful to guard letting out in any information to people about what had happened, partly because you were still. You were still honoring who you were still legally married to him. You were still honoring him at that point, but also you had two daughters, and you wanted to protect them.

And how how did that influence the way that you realized? Wow, I never I never realized that the church viewed divorces like this, and what it feels like to be one. Yeah, well, the church.

So my church was great. My pastor was integrally involved in the whole thing. Like the story came out about what had happened, even with my ex husband, my husband at the time, in his living room with his wife.

So he knew from the beginning, and there was no stigma from that. But. There was a lot of stigma in the church, and you know, some people went to my pastor and asked if I should still be teaching Bible study, and there was just so many questions. And I had mentored some people, and then there was questions about do I really even understand marriage? And so it was.

It there's just a lot. There's some ministries where you can't teach if you've been divorced because there's just too much question about it. And so I felt so sidelined. Like I was teaching Bible study and I kept doing it, but I just thought my ministry is going to be over. Like it just didn't feel like there's a place in the church for the divorced and.

So that was a real heartache for me, and you're right. I also couldn't let people know exactly what happened. Like it was a messy, complicated story, and one I didn't feel like it was honoring to God to put it all out there to people. I didn't want to be the subject of gossip, and then I had kids who knew some of it, but didn't actually know all of it, and I didn't want people in the people talk. About it, and and they still were from you know my my husband had church discipline, so there was some knowledge of the situation in our church, and one of my daughters was in the bathroom stall and heard people walking into the bathroom, talking about our family and and making observations or judgments about what we may or may not have done and.

That was really painful, and it was painful for me. And I remember having this piece of paper on my bulletin board that I would have to read every day, which is "Faith is trust in God to set the record straight." And I just had to do that because I could not set it straight. There was no way I could, and I, I, I wanted to try, like. But I realized I I couldn't do that. Like there was not that many people I could trust, and there were so many people who were talking about it.

And so it is faith is trusting God to set the record straight, and He did. It probably not totally. I mean, there's there's people that I'm sure have lots of thoughts about how maybe I'm different than what they thought, and that's okay. Like I don't get to fix that, but yet I. I know that God knows.

Yeah, and I mean, at the end of the day, I think to some degree we're all different than what people think, you know, and that's that's just the reality of it. But it reminds me. I'm going to see if I can find it real quick because it reminds me of. A verse in Ephesians, and it talks about let's see, it says, "With all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love." And that's that's in Ephesians four two. And I think that's a good takeaway verse with that because having having humility in these situations.

Again, Vanessa, you never entered this marriage thinking this was going to be your story, never. Yeah.

So we need to have humility. Thinking, but for the grace of God, go I. You don't know. You don't know what what God has in your path, and how would you want? People to treat you.

How would you want people to speak about your family? Would you want them to gossip, or would you want them to pray for you, faithfully pray for you with humility and love, and step into your sorrow and say, "What can I do to serve your family right now? Can I bring a meal over? Can I take your girls to the mall for the afternoon?" And you know, you mentioned too that both of your girls were adolescents. That is a hard age, and.

And it's a hard age to know what do I say, what do I not say to them about the the full spectrum and scope of the situation. Because, on the one hand, I would I would think as a mom, I have I have a almost twelve year old daughter, and I would think you know you kind of want to give them those stories of like, heads up, you know, be be mindful of these things, keep your eyes alert, but at the same time, it's their dad. And you don't you don't want to you don't want to diminish their view of their dad, and you don't want to create a heart of bitterness toward their dad. And yet, again, if I recall correctly, in your book, a lot of their hurt and their bitterness actually got aimed at you. And so here here you are already under fire from from things your husband has said to you and things that your husband has has done, but as acts of betrayal.

And yet, you're trying to protect your girls, and your girls don't know that fully, and so your girls are hurting. And you mentioned, and this this happens so often. I hope that people in the church will see this and hear this and have some grace on these families going through hard times. Whether it's the loss of of a of a parent through death or divorce, they're not that different, actually, in in what you experience emotionally, but. When kids are hurting, a lot of times they act out exactly how you said your girls do, or the the way your girls did.

They bully. They are unkind in their words. They can shut themselves off. They can become suicidal. All of those things are normal for for that situation.

And yet, sometimes in the church, we then say, "Well, their children are out of control. You know, they can't—they can't even control their family. Their family's just falling apart." Instead of looking at them with compassion and say, "Oh man, their world is falling apart. How can we step in and love them? How can we be the tangible hands and feet?" Of Christ, and one of the things I wanted to ask you is that you you said in your book that Jesus became very much your best friend and your confidant and your counselor.

How did that increase your confidence to be not only a single parent to these girls, but you were a single parent with limited mobility? Yeah, so I I feel like Jesus just had to be my husband, meaning I just had to trust him with everything. Like I, you know, when you have somebody else that's co parenting with you, you get to like talk to them about your concerns. You you have somebody to back you up if they're like. You have to enforce a punishment or a consequence or a, you know, anything.

There's somebody who is right there with you, whereas. I had nobody, and I didn't have anybody to balance me. Like maybe I was like flying off the handle and being unreasonable, and so I just had to beg God, like I I can't do this, and I need your help. And I sensed that God gave me wisdom in the moment, like times when I didn't know what to say and I didn't know what to do, and I felt like God knew that, and God gave me wisdom that I don't think I had before. Like it was.

And it's funny because you know James talks about you know asking God when we need wisdom. But I think sometimes we see, oh, I shouldn't ask God because I haven't had this major quiet time, or you know, we we sort of hesitate from going to God sometimes if we don't have our lives cleaned up. But God just wants us to ask.

So I would just ask in the moment, all the time, even if I hadn't spent time with the Lord, you know, Lord, I need you now. Like I am, I am asking you for this in this moment, and. God really responded to me every time. I just sensed that He wanted me to learn from this, grow, be a good parent. But when I tried to do it in my own strength, and you know, I would read lots of books, and you know, had the kids in counseling, and do it, and those were good things.

But it wasn't the same as when I just went to God and asked Him. And yeah, I mean, you made such a good point because. About the kids just going wild because they really did, and I felt like part of my job was to make them look good when other people were like, "Oh my gosh, your kids are out of control." And and people would say that, and they had no idea how painful that was when I was trying so hard, and I felt like I was being hit on all sides, and so people's condemnation. Was really one of the most painful things that I went through during that time. Yeah, it goes back to.

The pretenses, you know, and it's like we, as brothers and sisters in Christ, we're never asked to do that in Scripture. And in fact, we're we're told to confess our sins to one another, and we certainly, I don't think that we do that on a regular basis. I think that we tend to, we want to show up. As I've said on this show, I feel like oftentimes we're tempted to want to show up sanctified, you know, and it's like. None of us are sanctified, and yet, how how can we breathe life into each other's worlds, into each other's shattered parts, if we if we show up feeling like, oh, I got to make sure that everything is just prim and proper and everything looks right?

But at home, you're drowning, you're hurting, you're feeling crushed under these things, and. That that is just not how the Lord wants the church to function. He never expected us to be perfect. He knows that we're fallen, and you know, in Hebrews it tells us that we don't have a great high priest who can't empathize with our weaknesses. And yet, so often we fail to empathize with each other's weaknesses, even though we have the same ones.

And you know, it. I think part of it to what you were saying earlier, Venita, as far as it—it's easy to, um, kind of rehash the things that that people have done wrong to us or other people's shortcomings, because ultimately it makes us feel better about ourselves. That's that's the root of it. Is that it makes it swells our pride, which as believers we are supposed to put our pride to death continuously. But it's a struggle for every one of us, you know.

If we're honest, there's not a single person of us. I mean, you could be the greatest pastor there is, and I guarantee you, you struggled with pride before. Yeah, you struggle wanting to look a certain way and wanting your family to look a certain way. But I hope that having this conversation today does open the conversation for people within the churches to say, "Oh, you know what? I know this family that." That they went through a split last year.

I'm gonna reach out. I've never even reached out to them because I didn't know what to say. And I've been on and what what would have been just kind of like an olive branch extended to you in maybe those first couple months of someone. What what would that look like? A conversation or sitting with you and having coffee or what what would that have been?

Yeah, there'd be so many things, and you know, it's funny because in this was never the plan. The whole one whole. Appendix is just about how do you reach out to people, and so there's lots of different ways. But I I have this acronym which is show up, and the first thing is show up. You know, for me, it's salty snacks and dark chocolate.

But you know, you don't have to show up with anything. But you know, if you want to show up at my house, that that always works. But just be there. Like we just talked about before, presence is the most important thing. And then, you know, I have the H is how is today.

Like how are you? The only answer most people give is fine, thanks. How are you? You know that's just what we say, and so how are you is not really like people don't even know how to respond. But today, or how was this week, or how was yesterday, or people can respond to a certain amount of time, and so when you ask, that shows more care, I think, than just these blanket questions, and then.

Oh, of show up is offer specific help, so it may be like I love to do laundry. Can you leave all your laundry just in a huge garbage bag, and I'll bring it back folded? You know, or can I bring a meal this week? Or what is helpful for you? Like I love to do yard work, or just say the things that you like to do, but don't say "Call me if you need anything" because nobody ever calls.

So offer specific things that you you can do. And people then know how to take you up on that, and then W is words of encouragement because it's so discouraging when you're going through divorce on so many levels. And so even like if you notice their children have done something good, that feels incredible. When it's like I saw your daughter being kind to somebody because you hear so much negative and you already have so much negative self talk, just. Noticing that is huge, and then you is use active listening, like listen, lean in.

You know, most people do want to talk. Not, not you. You can't talk to everybody, but you don't have to talk about the intimate details with somebody who just you're having coffee with. But you can talk about what's hard, and so. I longed for people to just have coffee, especially good friends, and just say, "Like, what's happening in your world?

How can I step in? Can I just listen?" And then P, which is the last one, but not the least one, is pray, and that's really pray for them specifically. And and I say, you know, if you have a three-minute timer, if you pray for them every day for three minutes. It's unbelievable all that you'll be able to pray for, but we think you know our prayer might be just bless Susie, you know, and that's fine. But if we would just be specific, like pray for their kids, pray for what they need.

I mean, and so to commit to pray for three minutes sounds like that's nothing. It's big, so you know those are the things that I recommend if you have a friend going through divorce. Those are some things to think about. I think that's a great acronym, and actually, I'm going to show your book here real quick because you can find that acronym in in this book of hers, which is a great book. But also, I wanted I wanted so I've never been through divorce, but I was the child of divorce, and I think that it's it's crucial for people to understand too that when When your family has been through a divorce, whether you are the wife or the children, I think that it creates this deep-rooted feeling of rejection in you.

And so, when the church then doesn't step in and doesn't include you in things and starts excluding you from activities and that sort of thing, it can make that rejection feel even deeper. And I think about your girls who were teenagers, and that is such a vulnerable time of life. And then to have your dad move away is it? I can only imagine that they must have kind of felt like, "Why were we not worth dad staying here? Why did he not want to stay here?" And those feelings, they can actually.

Get very melded into the faith of a child or lack thereof, because like I remember, for me, when I learned about the doctrine of election, that really shook me because I had had this just deep rooted feeling of rejection all my life, and so I felt like, oh wow, like I had said the sinner's prayer so many times, and my life didn't change, and so then it was like, oh. God doesn't want me either. He's rejecting me, and so it gave me a hard heart. And I think that the church should be aware of that. That when you have people that already are vulnerable in those areas, it can affect their theology.

It can affect the way that they feel the Lord feels about them, whether or not they feel protected by the Lord, whether or not they feel valuable to Him. And so, how can we? How can we as the church step in and say, "You know what? This is so painful. What you're going through with your dad leaving, but your earthly father is not a reflection of your heavenly father.

He loves you. He will not leave you. He will not abandon you. And you are not rejected. You are not less than.

And." How how do you think that people can step into the lives of children and teenagers? What did that look like for your girls in your season? Yeah, well, I love what you said about what people can say because that's perfect. That's a wonderful thing to say. Is just, you know, your father's abandonment has nothing to do with how God feels about you, and just reassure them, um, and that their behavior.

Isn't the measure of their faithfulness? Like you know, we as Christians sometimes think: once you come to Christ, then of course your behavior needs to be perfect. That is not the gospel. We we think the gospel is: you have a messed up life, you come to Jesus, you live a perfect life, and the gospel is for. All of us every day because we need forgiveness every day, and God does not reject us.

God loves us and looks at us with delight. And so, I think we need to emphasize even more the delight of God in His children, and it's not dependent on what they do. Just like when you know I have a little grandchild now, and she's adorable, but when I see her, I am so delighted. I smile. I can't stop.

Smiling, and it's not because she's done anything, anything, yeah. But she sees my delight in her, and then she delights in me, and that's how we get to delight in God. Is when we know that God is really delighting in us, and so I think just making sure kids know that it's not like God knows and God sees what's been hard, and you know, my kids had families that came around them that invited them to dinner and just. Pulled them in to be part of their families, and that was huge. And they didn't have to talk about what was going on in our family; they just got to be part of an intact family.

Yeah.

And a couple of women who were younger, like they were in their twenties, and they mentored my daughters, and you know, picked them up for coffee, and that was huge.

So those things mean so much. Yeah.

So if you know, if anybody. Listening, knows someone going through divorce. If if you would consider meeting with one of their children one on one, it it could change their life. Yeah, I think that you said this too in your book, and I really resonated with this too. Even just as a mom that I haven't gone through divorce, but there are times that you're interacting with your children, or you're going through a hard season with your children, and you're kind of thinking like.

Man, how am I messing them up? Like, what? What are they gonna be like when they get older? And you know, I joke sometimes that my kids are gonna be laying on a couch someday, being like, "It all started with my mother." Yeah, but because you just sometimes there are seasons where you're like, I don't know what to say, I don't know what to do, and how to handle the situation. And I know that that can be a fear as you are parenting through.

You know, a storm season of life. How have you seen the Lord take your girls and use this situation ultimately in their life, draw them to the Lord, refine them? Yeah.

So both of my daughters are believers, and that is not a small thing because my older daughter. Had come to faith, but then, when all this happened with her dad, I remember once saying, "You know, we just have to trust God." And she stood up and threw a Kleenex box at me and said, "I don't want anything to do with your God." So it wasn't her God; it was my God. And yet she came back to faith. There were some faithful people around her that really encouraged her, and that drew her back. And then my younger daughter really hadn't made a profession of faith before her dad left, and she really fell apart.

Like her, she was just really angry and really bitter, and a very different personality than she had been before. And yet, she—I did a Bible study for Lifeway, and she—they interviewed her. They interviewed both my kids and you know my lot of my family for the little video portion. You know, there's like a video teaching portion, and I'm teaching, and then they have little clips of interviews from my kids. And they asked my daughter, my younger daughter, something about her faith, and so I'm sitting there watching like them interview her, and I'm wondering what she's.

Going to say, and they said she said, you know, I was a devil child. Like I, I wanted to make my mother's life miserable, but yet I saw how much joy she had, and she would get up every day, and she would have joy in her life. And I thought this is impossible outside of God. Like it made no sense to me. She said, and so that's really what made her want.

Faith for herself and commit her life to Christ. And honestly, I was not a great mom, so I don't want to sound like this mom was so joyful. I was not joyful. Like my, I didn't feel joyful. My card one year that I was homeschooling them.

Was mommy, and the why was for yelling less and less.

So it wasn't like not yelling, yelling yelling less and less.

So you know the bar was low, but God, the Lord really used that time.

So even if we feel like we're failing and we're like putting in money for the therapy for our kids for later, God is going to use our faithfulness because it's it's not us. It's um it's He is the one who is faithful. Yeah, yeah, I think that that. That's something every parent can walk away with, knowing that it's we're called to be faithful. But the Lord, the Lord holds the results in His hands, not us.

And ultimately, we are not responsible for whether they come to faith or not. But we are responsible to be faithful to them, to teach them, to set a good example. Doesn't mean we're going to set a perfect example. And in fact, I think there's a lot to be said for the fact that when when we do yell, when we do lose our cool, when we do get There's a lot that our kids can learn by us actually having that humility and applying that, and going to them and saying, "You know what, mommy didn't have self-control." In that instance, and I'm sorry. Will you please forgive me?

I should not have responded to you that way. I've had to do it many times with my kids, literally from the time they were toddlers, and it. I've seen where, like, my kids don't have a hard time apologizing to us for things and asking for forgiveness because they see it demonstrated in us. They don't see they don't see perfection demonstrated in us. They don't see a perfect a demonstration of self control demonstrated in us all the time, but they see where.

We are willing to come to them and say, "I'm sorry. I should not have responded that way." And there's a huge testimony to be had when our children see us go through hard things, and our kids are going to go through hard things too. But when they can look back and they can say, "You know what, man? My mom has gone through some really hard things, and she's okay." She's still her faith is solid. She smiles still.

She still has joy in her days, and that's why we share these testimonies here, Veneta, is because we want these to be the stones of remembrance where other believers can come and they can say, you know what, life is not over because I have polio, or I think is what you have now, secondary polio. Is that what they? Yeah, it's called post polio.

So my body's kind of going backwards, and so yeah, a lot.

So I mean. Having having post polio, having lost a son, having lost a marriage, having your whole world kind of turned into a different direction, and yet the Lord has restored your joy, and only the Lord can do that. And we can look at each other's testimonies, and we can say, you know what, the same God that saw Venita through all of those trials is my God too. And so I'm going to look at her stone that she's placed there through the form of her testimony, and I'm going to praise the Lord, and say, Lord, this doesn't feel good right now. This is not what I would have chosen, but I trust you.

I trust that you're good, and I trust that you will restore this. And, um, yeah, I think I think that opening up these conversations too, I think makes the church ultimately stronger because there's things that. It will no longer be like, oh, that's a taboo topic. We can't talk about those things. It's like let's lay all things bare before the Lord and one another, and spur each other on to righteousness and to good deeds and to loving the Lord with more open hands.

Yeah.

Before we we conclude this episode, where can people find your books? You said you've written five different books. This particular book is called "This Was Never the Plan," and it's walking with God through the heartache of divorce. Um, where can people find your different books? Um, well, you can go to my website, and which is Veneta dot com.

It's just my first name. Um, my kids call me say that's the most narcissistic website possible.

So there's that. Um, but anyway, so so you can find everything there. It We'll give like a little explanation of each of the books, but they're all sold in like I mean, Barnes and Noble has some in store and online, and then of course Amazon has all all books.

So. I love that.

Well, I really appreciate you being willing to share your testimony today. It's not easy to talk about these topics, and yet it's important. And I want to leave our listeners with with this scripture from Lamentations. It's from Lamentations three verses twenty one through twenty six, and then thirty two through thirty three, and it says this: I recall this to my mind, therefore I wait. The Lord's acts of mercy indeed do not end; for His compassions do not fail.

They are new every morning. Great is Your faithfulness. The Lord is my portion," says my soul. Therefore, I wait for Him. The Lord is good to those who await Him, to the person who seeks Him.

It is good that He waits silently for the salvation of the Lord. For if He causes grief, then He will have compassion in proportion to His abundant mercy. For He does not afflict willingly or grieve the sons of mankind. And I want to conclude, letting our listeners know that the Lord did. Fully restore you into a a very sweet marriage that the Lord has given you another marriage, and they can read about that in in your book as well.

And I would highly encourage you to not only get this book for yourself, but it is going to equip you. And so, there's actually there's a lot of of tips and kind of checklists and stuff in the back that kind of what are what are things that are helpful. It's similar to the book Hope in the Morning. That what's helpful, what's hurtful, what should you avoid, what should you implement.

So, I hope that you will go out and buy a copy of this book. And also, like I said, I've listened to her Walking Through Fire. It's a phenomenal book. You can either buy that and read it, or if you're a busy mom like me, you can download it on Audible and listen to it. And it's great there as well.

So. Vanitha, thank you so much for coming and sharing your testimony with us today. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I've so enjoyed our conversation. What a blessing!

We'll join us next week on Hope in the Morning. Hope in the Morning is a nonprofit ministry that seeks to encourage the hurting, equip those who walk beside them, and evangelize the lost with the hope of Jesus Christ. To partner with our ministry or to make a donation in your loved one's honor, please visit hopeinthemorning.org. Your donation helps keep these stories of hope on the air and helps tangibly meet the needs of the hurting.