Miserable Comforters: How to Avoid Being Job's Friends

This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Hope in the Morning. turning tragedies and tears into testimonies of hope, Welcome to Hope in the Morning. My name is Emily Curtis, and I am wondering: have you ever said something to someone and walked away and thought, ooh? Maybe I shouldn't have said that.

I have. And our book, Hope in the Morning, actually has sections after every story talking about what you should not say, what is hurtful, or what maybe makes you a miserable comforter. I'm joined today with Pastor Anthony Kidd, and he is one of our shepherds in the valleys. And we are talking about miserable comforters. Pastor Anthony, thank you for joining us today.

Thanks for having me, Emily. I really appreciate the invitation and the subject matter, as a matter of fact. I mean, obviously, as a pastor, and I've been a pastor for almost 25 years now, and I've had a great deal of opportunities to come alongside of people in their pain and their suffering and their grieving. And I have had those instances where I have left someone's home or left the hospital room. And I just thought to myself, was I really helpful?

You know, regretting what I said and praying that the next time that that opportunity presented itself, I'd be a little bit more prepared to say something more helpful. Yeah, and I'm hoping that at the conclusion of this episode that people feel a little bit more confident and equipped to go into those circumstances where they feel like, okay. Yes, I know from some stories on Hope in the Morning, kind of what I should say, some good verses to have memorized. But it is every bit as important that we learn what we should not say and how we should not approach suffering. You know, sometimes like we talk, we've talked before about how suffering can make people very uncomfortable.

And so they don't know what to say.

Sometimes we get awkward in those situations, or sometimes we avoid those situations. What do you think are kind of some of the tried and true things that people tend to do when they're uncomfortable with suffering. Yeah, just if I understand your question, Emily, yeah, I do think. There's a natural um reticence that people have when confronted with None of us want to just raise our hand to sign up to get into the line of next person up for suffering, right? And then, when we see other people suffering, even if it's people really close to us, there's a certain discomfort that is there.

And I think people just have to realize that that's the case, right? Yeah, and if the question is, like, what can we do to overcome that? Then I think, you know, we can find the strength to enter into those spaces with people that we care about, the people that God brings into our lives, knowing that as believers, that we're not entering to that space alone. That the Holy Spirit, and I love this because Jesus says that the Holy Spirit is the comforter.

So we take him with us, and he's there to not only be present with us, but also to be present with the person that we're coming alongside with, right? That has helped me because I've had some situations where I'll tell you, Emily, I felt so ill-equipped. Uh, to go into some situations, and I've just found myself before knocking on the door and sitting in my car and just begging the spirit of God to just, you know, equip me to say things that will be helpful or to prevent me from saying things that aren't helpful.

So, I really do think that. You know, as believers, relying upon the Holy Spirit, trusting that the Spirit of God is there to help us be a blessing to someone else. And so we can do that and almost get ourselves out of the flesh. And be led by the Spirit of God. I think that's just so, so very helpful, at least at the beginning of that time.

Obviously, there's some training that could be very, very helpful for people to know how to listen better, to know how to ask the right questions. And then obviously to be equipped with the Word of God. But I think being led by the Spirit is the key to at least the beginning of that process. Absolutely. I think one of the things that I think we...

Can have a propensity to do when we're uncomfortable, is we just say nothing. We kind of pretend like it's not there and we don't engage. And that's one of the things that in our book, Hope in the Morning, people said time and time again was actually one of the most hurtful things. And here we get so fearful that we might say the wrong thing and we don't want to say the wrong thing.

Sometimes we're going to, you know, I mean, I know even as I was compiling this book and I'm writing down everyone's stuff, I'm thinking, oops, I have said that. I have done that. We all, we're all in a constant state of learning. And that's, that's why we do episodes like this is because we want to learn.

So that we can be better equipped to actually serve in a way that is compassionate and helpful. But I love the advice that you just gave because I think when we don't know what to say and we're afraid of saying the wrong thing, prayer can be so powerful. Have you seen instances as a pastor where kind of what you were just saying, like where you didn't really know what to say in a circumstance where prayer was enough? Yeah, no, absolutely. You know, as I was thinking about this episode and just reflecting on some experiences, one that just particularly, and it's even a recent experience, someone was in the hospital, and yeah, it's.

I didn't feel um Led necessarily, this may sound really strange, necessarily to. Encourage this person who was really suffering. Their diagnosis was pretty extraordinary. I didn't feel led necessarily to pray for that person's healing.

Now, I may have to unpack that because that may just come across: like, what do you mean you're a pastor? Of course, you're supposed to pray for that, right? But I have learned over the years. That I don't know what God's intentions are in somebody's pain. And this is a particular kind of pain.

This was an elderly gentleman. And the tendency can be like, oh, of course, let's go in, let's read some scripture about how God is a healer. Right. And let's pray a prayer of healing. And I have just.

As I was preparing for the visit in praying, I just didn't sense that that was how the Lord was leading me to pray for this individual. And so talking to the Lord in preparation of going to make this visit really helped me.

Now, I can't say that I heard a direct voice from the Lord to say, oh, pray this way, but I think I was being sensitive to the leading of the Holy Spirit. And the visit was a sweet visit. And I just sought to just help him rest in the sovereignty of God and to trust the Lord and even be open to the possibility that this may be the time that the Lord was calling him home. Right. And that can be just an uncomfortable conversation to say as well, too.

You're not hoping that the individual dies, but that's just an example of how, for me, praying in that instance really did, I think, help me be a more faithful counselor and comforter to that gentleman at that moment. And I really do think that the spirit leads in that way as people come alongside of others who are in the midst of trial or pain or suffering. Yeah, actually, you and I have done an episode before on heaven, and it made me think about the fact that there are some instances where. You know, it may be fairly obvious that there's not going to be an earthly healing. It doesn't mean obviously God is capable of anything and he can do anything, but.

God does not always work in miracles here on earth. And so I think that it is actually a huge gift at times to be able to rejoice with people and say, listen, brother, listen, sister, let's talk a little bit about heaven and the exciting things that we have to look forward to where there is no more pain and no more suffering. Kind of being able to rejoice with them in what is our sure future as believers. Even if God were to do a miraculous healing and you had more years, that is still our sure and steady hope in the future. And so that seems to me like something that can be very encouraging for people that are.

Facing terminal illnesses and things like that. And you know, what are One of the other things that I think happens sometimes and maybe I I almost think, and you can correct me if you don't think this is accurate. I think that sometimes young pastors who are fresh out of seminary and real zealous and they know God's word, which is phenomenal, we want pastors that know God's word. But sometimes because they're so young and just so excited you know They don't always temper the truth with compassion or with love. And we can all have that happen to us.

But I think, especially people that have just finished years and years of training, they're like, okay, let me show you this first. Let me show you where this is at. How can we temper speaking truth, especially scripture, which is where we base our hope, but. Speaking scripture in A timely manner. Yeah.

Yeah, no, that's so helpful. And thank you for reminding us, pastors, of that, Emily. It's really encouraging because I would certainly be guilty of that. Yeah, you know, it's a To speak to the pastor part, yeah, as young men, we get out of seminary, we've been drinking from the fountain of our professors and all of the rich theology, you know, and we're just so excited with good intentions and rightfully so, you know, to share everything that we've learned, you know. But so much of it when we just get out of seminary is theoretical.

And so we go into spaces and we just unload and we just have to learn how that, yeah, theological precision doesn't necessarily lead to pastoral faithfulness. Hmm. And what I mean by that is that you obviously want to be theologically precise, right? But as you grow as a pastor, and this is just for any believer, as we grow in maturity, you just have to realize that there's more than simply speaking the truth, that there's timing. There's tone.

You know, there's all the things that come along with it. You know, as Paul said in Ephesians, you know, literally, he says, truthing in love. Is the way to think about when he says, speak the truth in love. And so we can really be equipped with the truth, but the love part can be kind of lacking, right? And so I think.

Again, as people that come alongside of others, that we just have to realize that our job in those situations is not only to share the truth, but it is to bring comfort, it is to bring compassion, it is to seek to mend those who are in deep pain. And I'm reminded of it, even just where we got the, you know, the heading for our time here, just miserable comforters, comes out of Job and his friends. And in the beginning, when you read chapter two, they started off really well. You know, I was thinking about in preparation. I have my Bible open in the second chapter where it says.

You know, when they came, they came with the intention to sympathize with him and comfort him.

So, so far, so good. You know, and when they saw him, they lifted up their voices, they wept, so far, so good. Right. And when they got there, they sat down with him and they were silent with him for seven days. You know, and that's something to remind ourselves of that sometimes it's just the ministry of presence.

Yeah. Of being with someone and not needing necessarily to say anything, being comfortable with the uncomfort of silence. Yeah. You know, it's okay as well, too. And really discerning.

What the need of the moment is. And I really do think there's, yeah, there's a certain wisdom in that that comes over a period of time that you realize that if you come to a situation or a setting already with a pre-canned, You know, presentation of what you're going to say, the likelihood is that that's going to go south quick and in the hurry. When we come back from the break, we're going to talk about how do we avoid being Job's friends after the first couple verses. We want to be like them in the first couple. How do we avoid being like them after the second couple halves?

Join us again on Hope in the Morning. Yeah, it's great. John 13, 35 says, By this everyone will know that you are my disciples if you love one another. Do you know how to best love and serve your hurting brother or sister in Christ? Listen to Hope in the Morning and be equipped to offer the hope of Jesus to every hurting heart.

To learn more or to partner with our ministry, visit us at hopeinthemorning.org. Have you ever struggled to comfort a grieving friend? John 11:35 says, Jesus wept. When Jesus was told by Mary and Martha that their brother Lazarus had died, Jesus wept. Today on Hope in the Morning, we invite you to learn what it looks like to weep with those who weep.

Learn what it means to sit in the ashes and be encouraged that even in our morning, there's hope. His name is Jesus. Visit hopeinthemorning.org to learn more. As a grief counselor with years of experience, I can testify that Hope in the Morning is one of the best resources out there. Out of all the grief books I've purchased and that others gave me, this is the book that has helped me the most.

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I am joined today with Pastor Anthony Kidd, and we are talking about how to avoid being a miserable comforter.

So, Anthony, you had told me that you have five things to avoid to being a miserable comforter as we saw it with Job's friends, that they started out well, but then it kind of quickly went downhill and it went downhill pretty far.

So what would you say are some of your pieces of advice as a pastor? for us to avoid being that. Yeah, thanks for that question. That's a helpful question. Yeah, and unfortunately, it went downhill quick and in a hurry the moment that they opened up their mouths.

So, right, we recognize that the ministry of silence is important, but obviously, we want to be able to share and speak into people's lives in the midst of the pain. But I just, in surveying kind of the situation with the book of Job, have come up with at least five, and hopefully, these might be helpful. The first mistake that we want to avoid in terms of not becoming a miserable, comfortable, a miserable counselor, I call assuming that we understand all of God's purposes, right?

Now, there are some things that God has said in His word about suffering that we can apply generally, but I think the mistake that Job's friends thought they knew exactly what God was doing in Job's life. And so they started to become prosecutors, as it were, tacticians, and they didn't know, right? When you read the book of Job, we're giving information. That they did not have. And so we can step into situations sometimes and think that we know exactly what God is doing in a person's life.

And so, a couple of examples of things that people can say is that, you know, oh, God is trying to teach you this specific lesson.

Well, if God hasn't revealed that to you, you don't know that. And so it's probably helpful not to say that. You know, another one could be: you know, this happened because you're not trusting God enough. Or one that we know, and you can expand on this, Em, is that, you know, you must have hidden sin in your life. I think that's a big one, you know.

And even as you fast forward into the New Testament in John chapter 9, when Jesus was walking and his disciples had asked with the man born blind, you know, who sinned, this man or, you know, his parents. And they were operating under a false assumption that all suffering, all pain is directly tied to sin. And we know that that can be the case sometimes, but it's not always the case sometimes. And I think, boy, that's a big one that I have found that Christians really do make the mistake of always thinking that there's a sin in somebody's life because they got a cancer diagnosis, or there's sin in somebody's life because, you know, they lost their job or whatever it might be.

So that's just a big one. Just having the humility to recognize that if God hasn't revealed to us the specifics of somebody's suffering. then we need to be careful not to try to make that diagnosis. Absolutely. I think it actually can dissuade some people to come to the church because they feel like if I'm suffering and I'm grieving, maybe people are going to think that I'm not fit.

Maybe people think that I'm spiritually unfit. And so they don't want to come, especially with certain types of grief, whether that is, you know, you've had a suicide in the family or you've had, maybe they've struggled with addiction before or they've been struggling with depression. Things like that can very much. I think those are kind of our go-tos almost of thinking like, well, certainly there was sin here. And instead, I loved what you talked about.

I think that's the key is humility, understanding that like, but for the grace of God, go by, and you don't know what God is going to call you to. And. And yet we do have, we do have the ability to see in Job. Why God tested Job in those ways. And it was actually the very opposite thing.

It was because Job was a righteous man. That's right. And so. We don't know, and we shouldn't assume. And if anything, we should take a posture of humility at all times.

I mean, that's how we can be the most Christ-like and never assume either that we would respond to a trial differently than how we're witnessing somebody else responding to it. Oh, that is so true. Yeah, always having that grace and that mercy and that humility with that. I think that's a great point that you just made. Yeah, no, it's good.

Yeah. But the second mistake is prioritizing explanation over compassion. Right. The tendency that some people can have going into a situation and coming alongside a body is almost feeling the need to explain to the person why they're going through what they're going through. Yeah.

Right. And we don't have to do that. Right. And I think it's a safe assumption that the person who is suffering has spent a great deal of time already. In trying to think through, like, why is this happening to me?

They've talked to the Lord, they've talked to others. And so, we have to be really, really careful that we don't, you know, designate ourselves as the appointed person to give all of the explanations, particularly when we don't know all the details of what's going on.

So, I would say a way to remedy that is just lead with compassion. You know, as Paul said, we rejoice with those who rejoice, but we weep with those who weep.

So, if there's a person in mourning, a person grieving, a person suffering, I think the first thing is not just open our mouth trying to explain what happens to them, but to just have a heart of compassion and weep with them and, you know, not necessarily probing and asking all the detailed questions up front. There may come a time. When that's necessary. And there may come a time when the person actually asks you for your opinion. Right.

And then, obviously, if you have an invitation to do that. And you can certainly do that. But yeah, so you know, rather than correcting, just compassion, rather than analyzing, do a little bit more listening. Absolutely. I think that that's a great point for us to all take away.

I mean, being a listener is that's a huge part in people's healing, actually, having people that are willing to just sit with them and listen and listen more than you speak. Yeah. Yeah. Right. My grandmother used to say, uh, in her own kind of way, you know, that's why the Lord gave us two ears and one mouth, right?

So, and maybe that's her word, her way of saying, you know, James, you know, chapter, chapter one, where we are to be slow to speak, right? And slow to anger, but quick to listen. And when you listen, I think you can really get a grasp of what's the need for the moment. And sometimes the tendency to speak is something. And here's another one that we talked a little bit about earlier.

It's just using truth. This is a mistake, using truth without love.

So that's huge. You know, again, truth alone doesn't necessarily. mean that you're faithfully counseling someone. Boy, I just, when you think about the Lord Jesus Christ and how compassionate he was, how he's described as being gentle and lowly, and just how, you know, the Old Testament predicted that, you know, he wouldn't extinguish, you know, a flickering wick. This picture of him just being so tender when it came.

And we know that he was always about truth because he was truth incarnate.

So that he didn't ever compromise in telling the truth, but the way that he made people feel in this, so it's no small wonder that sinners were attracted to him. Yeah. Yeah. It makes me think too about the fact that the truth is that we've all fallen short. We're all guilty of the whole law, as James says, because we've all committed at least one sin before a holy God.

That's the truth. That's the truth of our standing before God. And yet, the compassion that comes in is. But God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that we might be made right before him through his son. And so that's the truth, the truth of who we are.

Mingled with the compassion of who Christ is. Yes, no doubt. And I think of, you know, John 1 that says that Jesus was full of grace and truth. Right. And so we would certainly want to be like that, full of grace and truth, and just give people grace to even say things that may not be theologically accurate.

Right. To feel in ways where you go, ah, but it's okay in the weakness of the moment because weakness doesn't necessarily mean faithlessness. It just means that the person at the moment is just weak and it's okay because we've all been there. You know, whether we want to recognize it or not, we've all been there.

So yeah. And then mistake number four, Emily, I have is just reducing all suffering. We talked a little bit about it to personal sin. And again, just drawing a straight line from suffering back to sin, right? And just, it's just not the full picture of what the Bible says, theologically speaking.

We live in a fallen and a broken world. And even as Christians, we're not exempt from the vicissitudes of life.

So it doesn't mean that we've done anything necessarily wrong when bad things happen to us, when pain comes to us. We also have to understand that there is an enemy of our souls out there and that Satan can do things to us.

Now, we understand, obviously, under the sovereignty of God. Right. And yet he still does certain things to us. And so we don't have to necessarily point to God or sin, but just to say that we're under the attack of the enemy at the time.

So I just think we have to be really, really careful about that. I've done that in the past and have been too quick to have a person search their own heart whether or not there's sin that needed to be repented of. And you know, that probably shouldn't be the thing that I said in the first conversation, you know, with a brother suffering.

So that's just a big one. You know, the heart of a person obviously matters, but the suffering doesn't necessarily indicate that there's some hidden personal sin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And then mistake number five. We talked a little bit about this one too, talking too much and listening too little. You know, silence is golden sometimes. Proverbs 18:13, if anyone gives an answer before he hears, it is folly and shame to him. Right.

So, so come in front-loaded with a lot of things that we have to say. You know, it can just cause more angst on a person who's already under the load and the burden of suffering. I don't know.

So, don't be a lecturer. You know, don't interrupt. Yeah, don't interrupt people when they're speaking. Just listen, and that's just really, really helpful. I think, yeah, I have a brother.

In my church, Emily, who is just the greatest listener. On the planet, and I'm trying to be like him, but he has a way of not saying something just to draw out your heart. Right. So it's not, so listening, listening is not just not speaking. But it's being engaged in the process while somebody else is speaking.

Yeah. That makes any sense. You know what I mean? Yeah, I actually think that ties in a lot to what we talked about at the very beginning of the program, which is the fact that not doing or saying anything at all is a very hurtful thing. And yet, this is like.

A proactive version of you don't, you don't have to say things, you don't have to go into a situation and worry that you're going to say the wrong thing. But having that presence is so important. Being willing to say, Hey, can I bring coffee over to your house and just sit and talk with you and engage and listen? And even as I think you were kind of indicating a little bit now. It's like when we take that time to allow those pauses to be in there, too, people are much more likely to open up their heart and fill those pauses.

But if we're unwilling, because it's uncomfortable, to let the silences be present. They may not feel comfortable sharing some of the things that are really deeply on their heart. And sometimes those are things that may be very vulnerable. They may be things that they're feeling guilty for feeling or for thinking about. And yet the Lord wants those thoughts and those burdens brought to light so that we can help, as Galatians 6, 2 talks about, carry one another's burdens and therefore fulfill the law of Christ.

We can't carry each other's burdens if we don't hear what they are. And we can't hear them if we don't allow them to verbalize them. And when we come back, join us for the podcast portion of this because we're going to talk about actually some of the ways that writers here in the book said specifically, here is what not to say. And we're going to talk a little bit about what do we say too?

So we can have a little bit of that put off and that put on.

So join us again in a moment on Hope in the Morning. All right.

So, going forward, I think that those are great. Like, those are five really great things for us to just commit to memory. And I mean, you could even jot that down on a piece of paper and put that in your Bible because most of us are encountering people on at least a weekly basis that you're thinking, how, how do I? Love this person? How do I enter into their suffering?

And having kind of like a little cheat book like that, where we can say, okay, here's five things that I should avoid. Yeah. I think that's great. And that's part of why I'm going to show this, but that's part of why we did the book open the morning. And we have found that this has been a useful tool, not only for like the layman in the church, and it's helpful for people that are grieving to read these stories and see the faithfulness of the Lord.

But it's, I mean, time and time again, we keep hearing from counselors and pastors who are saying, This has really been helpful to be able to read the sections at the end of each story and see from their perspective, okay, this was helpful and this was hurtful. And so I was actually gonna just read through a couple of those. And one of the things, Anthony, that surprised me the most as I was compiling this, because it's one of those things that. I think most of us have said this is Let me know if you need anything. Yeah.

Who would think that that's a wrong thing to say? And yet, there's 21 stories in here, Anthony. Probably 17 of them said, Don't say, No. Let me know if you need anything. And our listeners are probably hearing that thinking, well, what's wrong with that?

Well, what they said, what they shared with us, which again is so helpful to have this insight from people that are grieving, is that it actually puts this burden on the griever to try and think through all the different ways that you could possibly serve them. And then, on top of that, A lot of people are uncomfortable coming to you weeks later and being like, hey, you want to watch my kids? You know, you want to bring us a meal? It just, it puts them in an uncomfortable situation. Totally.

Yeah. The solution to that I've learned through these amazing friends that have been willing to share their testimonies is to say something specific. Say, hey, can I let me know if I can mow your lawn? I'm free on Wednesday or Thursday. Can I take your kids to the park?

I'm free Sunday from this time to this time or this time. I'd like to bring your family a meal. Do you have any allergies? Make it specific because then they know how you can help. Um And they feel like, okay, this person really does want to help in these areas because they're making it known what their capabilities are.

But that's something like I would have never known not to say. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah. And I have, Emily, I have said that countless times, you know, and the interesting thing is, I mean, you generally mean well. You generally mean, you know, but like you said, it's just.

they the the person or and or the family they're already burdened down and you're just adding one more thing that you know they're expected to think about and then do you know and they don't know they don't know how much how genuine it is because it's kind of it's kind of like when we walk by people in america and we're like how you doing yeah well the expected response is i'm fine regardless of how you're doing you know and if you're like well let me talk to you about the week after people are like oh man this is going to be a little while i don't really have time it's like well you asked me the question right and so i think i think let me know if you need anything kind of becomes the Same vernacular in a different instance. And so that's one of the ones that we learned time and time again to take out of our vocabulary. And let's see, some of the other things that, oh, so one of the other big things that people that are suffering any kind of like terminal illness or chronic illness, and again, this is something that like I'm sure I've done, and I think many of us do this, and it's from a, it's from a well-intentioned heart. But saying Here's this solution. Here's this treatment.

You should try this. Again, it burdens people. You know, I mean, we went through that when my dad was dying. We went through that where it's like, here he has pancreatic cancer. Yeah.

And you have these people that are like so well-intentioned, but they're coming to you with all of these things that you feel. You feel burdened to look into. And yet there are some instances, especially where like time is precious with these people because it's fleeting. And you have to spend all this time researching or else you feel guilty that you didn't. No.

Yeah. We just had, I'm sorry, Denner. We, we just had a situation. We lost a dear saint and similar to your grandfather, pancreatic cancer. And within the diagnosis, she passed within a month.

Yeah. And, you know, it was just a shock to our system as a church. And so everybody wanted to reach out. But there were a few people that were calling and they were into, you know, naturopathic medicine and essential oils and the whole thing. And so her family ended up calling us as pastors and said, just can you, can you tell them not to call us anymore?

Because they meant well. And, you know, and having to call people and tell them that and just to realize that this family already going through this traumatic time of this, you know, dear saint past.

So that one, that one is huge. And people just have, because they mean, they want to help, but it's just not helpful to try to be a doctor at that moment. Right. Right. I mean, people have said that so many times in here of please, please don't do that.

And so, and again, it's like, it's well-intentioned. And we know that, which is again, I think why I felt like this was even more important because we feel like we're doing the right things. We feel like we're doing the right thing when we're, you know, we're messaging someone Jeremiah 29, 11 or Romans 8, 28. We feel like we're doing the right thing when we say, let me know if you need anything or pretending, like, not bringing up their name because we feel like, oh, that's going to make them sad. That's actually another thing that like don't, don't neglect to say their name.

And my mom, actually, I was telling you, Anthony, my mom just became a widow in October 2024. And I asked her in preparation for this episode, I said, Mom, you know what? What are some things that have actually been like helpful? Or when you think about like miserable comforters, what comes to your mind? And I thought she said something that was pretty beautiful.

She said, you know what actually has been. Like the antithesis of miserable comforters, it's when someone shares a story about my husband, when they just text message me or call me on the phone and say, Hey, I just had this wonderful meal and it reminded me of Robert. And I remember when we came to your house and we had this meal. And sometimes we can get fearful that, oh, if I say their name or if I talk about a memory, that's going to make them upset. It's going to make things resurface.

Yeah. When in reality, it makes them feel remembered. And loved and seen because they're thinking of them too.

So good. Yeah. Have you found that in your ministry too that people tend to want to talk about their loved ones that have passed away? They do. And boy, that's just such a setup for what I wanted to share here.

Emily is just so great. And this is one of the things that I wish I had learned. I've been a pastor for a long time, and I learned this from another pastor. And what he does is, as he does funerals, He marks them down on his calendar and he sets a timer for four months and six months and then a year. And when the four-month alert, he calls the family and he just recognizes, and the families are so thankful that their pastor remembered because so many people, like you said, they're fearful not to bring it up, thinking that somehow or another, it's going to bring back the bad memory.

And there are exceptions to that rule. But generally speaking, people, if not anything, they want to know that you have not forgotten their loved one. Absolutely. You know, and so, yeah, we have a dear sister at our church and she tells me every, like every other month, like something like this. Oh, this would have been our anniversary of when we met.

Or, you know, this time 10 years ago, we went to this great trip and she just talks and I listen and her face just lightens up. Yeah. So that's a big one. Yeah. Trying to avoid speaking the person's name.

It has just the opposite effect that we think that it should. Yeah. Yeah. And actually being able to engage people and say, hey, tell me about how you met so-and-so. Tell me about the day your baby was born.

Tell me, you know, tell me about a favorite vacation you did, things like that. Oftentimes, they are healing balms to their hearts. And just because of the brevity that we have on this episode, I wanted to show you guys again that in this book, if you guys want to hear more, more practical things of like, what should I say? What should I avoid saying? This really is a great resource for you guys to know that it's a great resource for you guys to give to new seminary students that are just graduating.

It's a great graduation gift. It's great for your pastors. It's great for your teenagers. Both of my teenage kids have read this, and I think it's helped them. They've actually stepped into the suffering of their little friends because they feel equipped to do so.

And so, as we close out this episode, I'm going to read a poem that's actually in this book, too, because I want us to be reminded of how. How God is not a miserable comforter. He is the perfect comforter. I mean, he loves us in ways that we want to emulate toward one another. And this poem is called Peace, and it's based off of Psalm 91, verse 4, which says, He will cover you with his pinions, and under his wings you may seek refuge.

His faithfulness is a shield and a bulwark. And this is a poem. It says, Father God in heaven, the one who sees all things, look down upon my sorrow and hide me in your wings. Give me peace while storms surround me and let me not be shaken. Plant deep within my soul the truth that I am not forsaken.

Grant to me your mercy while I still do mourn. and in time replace with roses where I now see only thorns. Take this bitter cup and the tears of all my sorrow. Lead me by streams of water where hope is shining for tomorrow. I hope that this episode has inspired you to lead your brothers and sisters by those streams of water when they're still in those seasons of mourning so that you can avoid being a miserable comforter.

Pastor Anthony Kidd, thank you so much for joining us today on this episode. Emily, thank you. This has been so helpful. Very, very helpful. Yeah, it's good to be with you.

I hope that it's blessed you as a listener and that you will join us again next week on Hope in the Morning. Uh Hope in the Morning is a non-profit ministry that seeks to encourage the hurting, equip those who walk beside them, and evangelize the lost with the hope of Jesus Christ. To partner with our ministry or to make a donation in your loved ones' honor, please visit hopeinthemorning.org. Your donation helps keep these stories of hope on the air and helps tangibly meet the needs of the hurting.