Thrill of Hope

This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Hope in the Morning. turning tragedies and tears into testimonies of hope. All right, welcome to Hope in the Morning. I am your host, Emily Curtis, and I'm joined today by.

Robbie Delmore. And those of you that listen to us on a regular basis may be familiar with our guest, David Zimmer. He joined us before to talk about grief and music, and he is part of the band Sovereign Grace. And he really has written a lot of beautiful music, some of which I think many of us are familiar with that we sing in our churches. But the lyrics are so Rich.

And I just, I love that, David. I love that you make these beautiful lyrics that are so. Transparent, really, before the Lord, which is what music is such an incredible act of worship. That to be able to lay out our hearts bare before the Lord is really an incredible thing.

So, thank you for joining us again today. Yeah, it's great to be here. Thank you for having me. You know, I I think as we head toward the holidays too, For those that have suffered grief, it can be a hard time, you know, because you're thinking about all the memories that we have with that loved one that's no longer there with us and. We just we have to be able to pour those emotions out.

to the Lord. And David, what have you found to be, I guess, the most powerful Tools that you have as a musician to help people be encouraged during this season? Yeah. Yeah. Uh well, it's a joy to be with you both.

Um, my uh, my role within Sovereign Grace Music is uh not only a writer, um, but also a producer uh for Sovereign Grace Music. And we have, um, I think uh three Christmas albums. Um, our desire in Sovereign Grace Music has been to write songs that are uh true, you know, based on God's word, uh, honest, uh, like you were talking, transparent. You know, our honest reality before The Lord, you know, we all go through seasons of grief, and especially at Christmas time, I think, um. You know, it's not the most joyful time for everyone.

They're remembering lost loved ones. Uh and they're battling Kind of, you know, what happens in the seasonal depression, but even more than that, it could be sin that they're, you know, dealing with in their own hearts and submitting that to the Lord.

So there's all sources of grief in our lives. But there's always the good news. that You know. God came to this earth as a baby to live a perfect life and to die in our place and was raised again so that we have hope in him. And so.

So, yeah, and our attempt in to what we're doing with Sovereign Grace Music, especially when it comes to like albums about the incarnation or. About this season is to give both of those realities. This is good news that Christ has. Has come to this earth, but it's also news that we need that gives us hope. Yeah, absolutely.

Robbie, as a pastor, how influential is music within your church to your congregation?

Well, yeah, because he inhabits our praises, right? But, you know, this is a beautiful. As I was thinking about what you guys were saying in Hebrews, you know, it gives us this example that we have this great high priest who can. you know, identified to all of the the the That have happened in our lives, but that's actually where that famous verse comes: that you're supposed to go boldly, is the way it's usually translated. But when you really dig down into that word that is translated boldly, it's actually authentically.

Like, come, the real you show up at the throne, you're supposed to come that way. Here I am, God, and I'm not feeling it. Here I am, God, and I'm really struggling with this. And the other thing that happens at Christmas, I think, is strange relationships that, you know, man, I ought to be back together with this person or that person, and I can't. And so that's a great thing based on some of the music we're going to talk about today to actually come to the throne.

Uh to be able to have him Relate to what it is that you're going with. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, David, the song that we are going to focus on today, which is one of my favorite Christmas songs that you guys have written, is O Come, All You Unfaithful. And it really goes against what we think initially, right? We think we want to be faithful to the Lord, and yet scripture's pretty clear that we're weak, like our Our vessels, in and of ourselves, were really weak.

Like we cannot be faithful to him in our own strength.

So, where did that concept come from? Come from for sovereign grace. Yeah. I'm so encouraged that this song has been a blessing to you. It's been a blessing to myself, to a lot of people.

So, a little context for that song and Sovereign Grace Music is: we're a collection of writers. There's a lot of us. There's 15, 16 that all come together at a songwriter retreat that we do in Louisville, Kentucky. That's where Sovereign Grace Music is based out of. And so, everybody kind of brings their songs and we We share these songs with each other at a thing called Song Share, where someone will play a song.

So, this song was from our album, Heaven Has Come. We actually released this album in 2020. And so I think a lot of songs just sort of were inspired by that. But heaven has come, you know, the theme that Christ has come to dwell with us and to be among us and to save us. We were all sharing songs, and most songs that people share, you think, like, that's good.

That might need work. And I remember when Lisa Klow, so she's a good friend of mine, Sovereign Grace writer, songwriter, and she's actually a great songwriter on her own. She has her own music. She came to this retreat and brought this song, and Bob Coughlin helped her with it. And the song was called Oh, Come, All You Unfaithful.

So you're initially thinking, like, whoa, are we allowed to do that? Is that okay? You know, and it's been interesting, the responses are mixed. It's like, don't touch our Christmas hymns, you know, our Christmas classic hymns. You know, you have that response.

And we understand that, we totally get that. We are in no way taking away from how good oh come all you faithful is. You know, that's a classic. But this was such a different song, right? Different melody, different feel.

Um And just that first initial line, oh, come all you unfaithful, stood out to us when she shared this song. I remember all of our songwriters were in tears. We were so moved by. The Honesty. And the relatability of this song.

And, you know, that, that, that has been a kind of a universal response. Um, We, we, you know, Sovereign Groups Music, we're not on the radio. Not a lot of people know who we are. I mean, you know, certain people do. Um but we seek to serve churches with songs.

And we have released a clip. of this song Sung by various people. Lisa sang it in the music video. Mackenzie has sang it on an acoustic version we did and we just released. Um In November, a version of me singing it.

But every year we've posted it for the last five years, that clip seems to go viral on. uh social media platforms and I think it's because people are They see themselves in these lyrics. Oh, come, all you unfaithful.

Well, that's all of us. Come, weak and unstable. Come, know you are not alone. Yeah. Especially the verse 2.

We've heard a lot of comments on this. Oh, come, barren and waiting ones Weary of praying, come. See what your God has done. And Christmas is a time, it's the incarnation, right? It's in our blood, it's in our DNA as believers.

That is a time of This there's a baby in a manger And there are so many mothers. Um that Are barren, that are waiting for the Lord to give them a child, and they're in that season. And uh And it continues on and shares the gospel as it goes. But I just think it's a song that has related to a lot of people by God's grace, and hopefully it's giving them a message of hope. Yeah, yeah, I think.

Having that authenticity, that's what makes songs powerful. And that's probably one reason why it has gone viral because. There's such a I think a thirst, especially in the evangelical Christian church, to have this authenticity. How do you say authenticity? Authenticity.

Because. I think many of us Maybe grew up feeling like we weren't allowed to say what. And it wasn't necessarily something that was put on us, but it was just something we felt that we weren't allowed to bring. Our sins transparently before one another. But how else can we encourage each other if we don't talk about that?

And not just our sins, but our sorrows. As you talk about the barren mother, we've had women on here before that have been barren. They've prayed for a decade to have a baby, and the Lord has not answered that in the way that they would want. And that is a heartbreak. Um you know Life often doesn't look the way we want it to.

But that's when the Lord redeems it, right? And here you're talking about. Christ coming down in the form of a man, so that as Hebrews states, that he can be acquainted with our sufferings, so that we don't have a high priest that's far removed from our sufferings. He is the perfect mediator for us between God and man because he understands our suffering because he's lived it. And With that, these are the kinds of songs that I think become prayers of the heart, which is so it's so beautiful.

Even the line that you talked about a second ago, where it says, weary of praying. We've all had moments like that, right? Right? You know, where we just feel like, Lord, are you even listening? Do you hear what I'm saying?

And yet When we can be transparent with each other, that's when we can encourage each other and say, yes, look what your God has done. And it's so beautiful.

Well, you think about it as you're talking, I can't help but go, well, man. Hannah is the perfect example of this. Like, she is there in the temple. Laying it out, like you can imagine how emotional she was because she had all that she was going on. She was as barren as she could be.

Eli thinks she's nuts, right? Like, what are you doing? And and and what she is being is authentic. And as a result of that prayer, Right? It's pretty cool.

If you ever go to Shiloh in Israel, where Hannah actually prayed that prayer, you can stand there. And they have her prayer, and you can pray it where she prayed it right there in the holy place in where Shiloh is to this day. And so it always is remarkable to me that she is the one. That was one of the very first prophecies that Christ would come. If you look in the way that she blesses Samuel later, it's amazing that.

When I think about that line in that song, I can't help but think of of the one that was Redeemed, right? And you end up with Samuel. Yeah. And I think it's incredible that the Lord. Oftentimes brings us to that low point where we feel like I have nothing left to give.

I don't even, I'm weary even of praying. I don't even know what to say anymore because my heart is. broken And There are times when you hit those moments of feeling like I'm weary, even of praying, that you do feel unfaithful. And we all like we all have fallen short of the glory of God, and yet what a beautiful thing. That Jesus came in the form of a man to redeem us, that he didn't leave us there in our suffering and in our sins.

And you had sent me earlier, and I'd like to just read a little bit of this about what Lisa's inspiration was behind this song. Yeah. Really, I mean, every poem that is written, every song that is written, and oftentimes, probably a lot of sermons that are spoken. are born out of personal suffering that the Lord brings us through And then, as we've gone through over and over in 1 Corinthians, where it talks about comforting one another with the comfort with which you've been comforted. You get songs like this, and they go viral.

They comfort so many people because the Lord has seen fit to put you through a season of afflictions.

So, this is something that the songwriter of Oh, Come All You Faithful wrote about her experience and her inspiration for why she wrote this song. And she says, I was struggling. It had been a long year and a half. Finances were stressful. I miscarried twins, and on top of it I was battling a deep relational bitterness.

My church was having their annual service where they kick off the Christmas season with carols and special songs. and I for once was not singing. I told them that I wouldn't be able to sing. But what they didn't know is that I too, I was too overcome with shame to stand on stage before my church. That Sunday morning I stood at my seat as they began to sing O Come, all ye faithful and the first line of the song just clobbered me.

it hit me like a giant wave of guilt. O come, all ye faithful, joyful and triumphant I remember hearing those words and thinking, I have been so unfaithful. My joy has dwindled and I am a triumphant. Failure. And I didn't sing the rest of the service.

I drove home, my mind still turning, Is that really who is invited to come to Jesus? The faithful, the joyful, the triumphant? If so, then I'm hopeless. Thankfully, later that afternoon the Holy Spirit reminded me of Jesus' invitation in Matthew 11:28, which says, Come to me, all who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Rest found in this life, his death, and his resurrection, not my own.

That evening I had a strong conviction to write a song for myself and for the weary. the broken and the ashamed. What a what a beautiful Just open-hearted thing for her to admit to. We've all been there, right? Oh, yeah.

I mean, I would assume that even as a pastor, there are probably some Sundays where you feel like, oh, this is maybe not my Sunday to get up and preach, that I'm just not, I'm not feeling that joy and like I'm. The one to lead. Have you ever had that as a pastor? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Or a radio show host.

You know that? Yeah. Like, oh, today's the day, it's showtime. The show must go on. Yeah.

And there you are. And, and, you know, God seems a million miles away. Yeah. It's a struggle. But you know what's beautiful about this, David, is that this really is, it's those moments when we can say, in humility.

This is not. I'm not feeling joyful. I'm not feeling like God can use me in this way. And I feel like if I get up there and I sing and I perform, that I am. Not being truthful and honest.

So, when we come back, we're going to dive a little bit more into these lyrics and we're going to talk a little bit more about the strength that comes when we are humble and we don't lean on our own strength.

So, join us again in just a moment on Hope in the Morning. Yeah. Hope in the Morning allows you to lean into the suffering of others and helps equip you to purposefully mourn with and meaningfully minister to those suffering in your midst. May these testimonies cause you to see our God with fresh and thankful eyes. and may you seek to be His hands and feet to every wearying heart.

Visit hopeinthemorning.org to learn how you can partner with us in ministry. As a grief counselor with years of experience, I can testify that Hope in the Morning is one of the best resources out there. Out of all the grief books I've purchased and that others gave me, this is the book that has helped me the most. These stories don't showcase the individuals as heroes who battled and conquered the worst. The stories of Hope in the Morning provide a marvelous perspective, allowing the listener to focus on Christ rather than self.

These stories remind me of who my Savior is and that there is truly hope in the morning. To learn more, visit us at hopeinthemorning.org. All right, welcome back to Hope in the Morning. We are joined with David Zimmer, and we're talking about Sovereign Grace's song, Oh Come, All You Unfaithful. David, what is the response that you have seen in churches when you guys perform this?

Yeah, um, it has been a great response and and and uh You know, it brings a lot of Just perspective when you talk to people after we sing this song and share this song of the experiences that they've gone through in their own lives. Um that is um Yeah, that is a really profound thing. We've talked to a lot of You know, women that are waiting to get pregnant or have been barren or have miscarried, and those verses have been, have had an impact on their lives. I I feel a special um Nearness to this song as I we do we do Christmas concerts every year, we do four. Um and we've go to a lot of different churches.

Um And so I've sang this song a lot. And I recently went to my dad's church up in Marysville, Washington, and I put on a little small concert for them. and actually ran into an old friend of mine, That I used to go to church with forever ago, you know, in my hometown. And I actually saw he was homeless and he was an alcoholic. And You know, when you haven't seen each other in a really, really long time, I just didn't even recognize him.

And finally, put the pieces together and. got coffee with him and I said, Would you come? to this church tomorrow night. I'm gonna do a concert. And I think some of these songs would be encouraging to you.

And uh he came, sure enough. And In O come all you unfaithful. Um there's uh In verse 4 of this song, it says, O come, guilty and hiding ones. there is no need to run. See what your God has done.

This whole song, Oh, Come, All You Unfaithful, is essentially the fact that. At the foot of the cross, it's level. And God, you know, Christ didn't come to this earth to save those who have it altogether. He didn't come to save the perfect ones. He came to save...

The liars, the weak, the unstable, the broken, the guilty. And that verse had such an impact on my friend's life. It's just you, when you write a song or you bring a song and you're putting it on an album and you release it, you have no idea what the Lord is going to do. And uh I I'm sure it's the same thing with this This radio show is just like... The Holy Spirit is going to use these things and take it to minister to people.

So the response has been just profound. Yeah, I think what you were saying too as far as That Jesus didn't come to die for the perfect, you know, Paul talks about the fact that. Are that God's glory is more on display because of our sin, because it shows what a merciful God we have. And that doesn't mean, as John points out or as Paul points out, it doesn't mean that we. continue in that sin so that grace can abound.

But it is it is good and right for us to expose it. before the Lord and before one another as believers and say, Look what God has done. Not anything in our own strength, because we all know, man, are we weak? You know, and I can, I can speak. Yeah.

For myself, and probably Ronnie, for you. Man, when you're doing shows like this, it is so humbling because you realize, like, Wow, not only do we not have it all together, but there are many times when I do interviews and I think I don't have the depth of strength, the depth of faith. that you hear these people have, but you know what oftentimes brought about that strength and that depth of faith is their suffering. Because It led them to that level ground at the cross. It led them to the Lord.

Ah, that's so beautiful. That that whole that whole story, it just touches me. And the way you said that was very impactful. Man, he didn't come to save the perfect ones. And it made me think of something that.

just grabs my heart. It's i in the Jewish, they celebrate the the Feast of Booths, which is one of their more joyous feasts. And they shake these four different branches that you may be familiar with it. But they all represent a different kind of Jew, so to speak. And one of them is the upright guy who has his act together and he's living the Torah and he's doing all this stuff, and he's supposed to be the tallest in the bunch and all this.

And they go right through the four, but the last. One is a willow because he's kind of bent over and humble. They say, this guy doesn't even. probably come to synagogue because he doesn't feel like he fits in. Mm.

He said, but this is the one God honors the most because you don't have to do anything. Yeah. You don't have to do. Anything to be loved by God. It's not about what you do, it's about what He did, and that has the same impact for me as what you said about that.

Yeah. Yeah. Those are the ones. Yeah, James talks about that. The book of James talks about how we as a church are supposed to welcome in the least of these, right?

That we're not supposed to give the honorable positions to those that come in dressed in fine clothes and wearing gold jewelry, but we are just like you did, David. Like, what a beautiful representation of what James tells us to do because that. That is humility. That's showing the hands and feet of Christ. And that's beautiful.

That's what we want to do as believers: just have. this complete and utter humility before the Lord. And David, I would love to sing this song with you, but I also want to talk about maybe we can sing it so that people can hear the lyrics. And then I would love to talk about the music video that you have with it, because the music video is It's really like it's very simple and yet very powerful. Um, yeah, I think a lot of people have seen it, but those that haven't seen it, I think that we will have it linked at the end of this YouTube portion here.

Um And it it's It's just one of those very Um Beautiful reminders that it doesn't take a lot of pomp and circumstance. to reach people's hearts, right? Just the truth, which is what you have here.

So, I mean, I would love to be able to sing this with you and just kind of focus on what some of these lyrics are and then dive into your music video. Yeah, that'd be great. Oh, come, all you unfaithful.

Come though you are not. Oh, come bearing and waiting once weary of prayer. Come see what you've got. Christ is bored. Christ is born, Christ is born for come, pure and broken, come with fears unspoken.

Come, taste of his perfect. Perfect love Oh come guilty and There is no need to run. See what you got. Christ is born, Christ is born, Christ is born for you. He's a Lamb who was killed, swaying for our part, His promise is peace for those who believe.

He's a Lamb who was killed, swaying for our part, His promise is peace for those who believe So come who you have not. Nothing to do. Oh free, come, see what you're done. God has done Christ is born Christ is born Christ is born for you Christ is born Christ is born Christ is born for you. Wow, I wish That that was so much fun to do with you, David.

You and I have not gotten to sing together since college days, which is. I know. Wow, it's crazy. Yes, it feels like not long ago until you count the years and then you're like, Yeah, that was really fun. But what What a beautiful song and This is actually a song that, even though we, my dad died in October, but this was a song that was on my heart a lot during that time.

And you don't even know how the Lord works in those moments or why He lays certain songs on your heart that. may seem like they're not A perfect fit for that season, and yet they are. You know, I mean, this was such a good reminder to me that We can bring everything before the Lord. And I just love that because He's our friend, He's our Father, He's our Comforter. Um There there are Seasons that we go through life where our sorrows and our sufferings are so deep that all we can do is bring it to the feet of Jesus because nobody else.

Truly understands, and sometimes we don't have the words for it, right?

Sometimes we cannot even communicate the sorrow that we're going through. Those of you that are listening to the radio, I strongly suggest that you join us on our podcast. Our podcast is always a longer version of what our radio broadcast is. And we're going to talk about the music video that you did. You had a lot of different people, and they weren't actors, they were just friends of yours.

And they have pretty incredible stories of how this particular song. ministered to them. And actually, if I correct me if I'm mistaken, but Was it the first time that they each heard the song? During that recording.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So this was the first time. That each of these people had come in and listened to this song.

What are the stories behind the people that you guys chose to invite into that? Yeah. Oh man. I mean time wouldn't allow. Like you know Detailed, you know, detailed stories of all these people's lives.

So these are all members of our church. They're they're all actually all but one, which is really cool a cool story that I'll share. But I mean, as you get to know your local church. Uh You get to know the joys and sorrows of each member, you know? And so.

So There there are so many different people represented in this. You know, they were all processing it for the first time, so that is accurate. We had the camera on as they kind of thought through this. And They A lot of them could see their own experiences like it through the lyrics of the songs. Of this song, sorry.

Um, one was a stillborn child. Um A couple in the video, I think, when it gets to that verse about, you know, come barren and waiting ones. They had had a stillborn child, but God had used that. To move in their hearts in mighty ways to adopt. And now they have like four or five kids from different countries.

Wow.

So their family is like such a great collection of all these different nations, you know, that they've opened their hearts to. And also, God has provided them biological children as well. One woman, you know, there was a strain in the marriage. Others are just processing grief and their own experiences in different ways. Um You know, uh People who have wrestled with shame, people who had had wrestled with doubts, you know.

And again, we're not parading our sins in like a video form, but just to say. Hey, we are all, you know, we are all seeking the Lord. And I appreciate what you said on the podcast, like, You know, we are unfaithful, but it doesn't mean that we stay there. And so, a lot of people that has been criticism of this song: wait, wait, wait, wait, we're not unfaithful. We're called to be faithful.

We're called to have it together. And And I think the beauty of that is what comes in the lyrics and the bridge, and I'll get back to the. the music video but This is the gospel. Like, we didn't want to just leave people with the idea that it's okay to be weak and unstable and unfaithful. And it's like.

Kind of the like you know God is, you know, saves you where you're at, but then He changes us. Yes. Like He by the power of His Holy Spirit. And so in the bridge, it just says, He's the Lamb who was given, slain for our pardon. His promise is peace for those who believe.

For those who have put their faith in Christ, He is salvation. He is the only one that changes us from the inside out. And then I love the last verse.

So come. Though you have nothing. Hmm. He is the offering. And so these are people who are honest enough.

And vulnerable enough to sit in front of a camera and basically confess. with their Hearing the song for the first time, I don't have anything. What have I received? You know, what do I have that I haven't received? Yeah.

And so Christ is my everything.

So these people live it. They're not actors. They live it. They believe it. And I think it took a lot of courage to sit in front of a camera and process these lyrics in real time.

But they're like, they're my friends. They babysit our kids. Actually, Julie and my two kids are in this video. And It's amazing to see how much younger the kids are and Is it your first time hearing it? It it was Julie's first time hearing it.

Or she might have heard it because she has, you know, insider access. She might have heard it before. But she does end up crying as she's listening to that song, given her own story. Yeah. You know?

Given her own experiences of what God is. Is doing in her life as well. But I think the most special story in the music video that people don't know about. We had a grip on set.

So he's a guy who came in and he set up all the lights for us. And he likes to arrange them all, and we asked him. Would you want to be in this music video? And he thought, like, oh, I no one ever asks me to be a part of anything. Like, That's weird.

I'm just a, I don't have a change of clothes or anything. We said, oh, no, no, no, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, like, this is totally fine. Would you it just sit in front of a camera? Listen to the song, you know, and you don't have to do anything, just listen.

And uh You could just kind of see him as the song was playing. He didn't have a walk with the Lord. He wasn't a Christian. He. But you could just kinda see him taking in deep breaths as this song.

goes on and continues. And you can tell like he's processing things. Um, but that was very intentional, and a lot of people don't know that story, but that was very intentional on our part to say, like. This is for everybody. This is for everybody.

Not the special select few. This is a gospel that we all need. And so.

That's just a fun insider, you know, pull pull back the curtain kind of inside into that music video. Yeah, oh, that's the gospel right there, right? is that it is not for those that have it all together and Christianity is the only religion where we don't work for our salvation, where it is by faith and grace alone. And so often, we, even as born-again believers, we do, we have this striving, right? We're this constant striving.

And we do want to strive towards godliness. That is good, that's biblical. But the Lord tells us to cease striving and know that I am God. And there is such a peace that comes with that. And again, it's not that we sit in our sin, it's not that we glamorize our sin or that we wink at it by any means.

We want to, we want to. Kill the sin, eradicate the sin so that we can be more like Christ. But that comes out of a love for Him because of what He did for us. But I've seen the music video, and one of the things that I think is so incredible, and even listening to it, is that there is sort of this, like, you go through all these verses, and you think, I am, I'm unfaithful. I'm weak.

I'm unstable. I feel alone. I'm barren. I feel weary of praying. And it's just kind of this, this.

Buildup of feeling like, oh, it's all your guilt really brought before you. All these things that are coming to the forefront of. How unworthy. Am I? Not even just unfaithful, unworthy.

We are all unworthy of what Christ has given us. And yet, When you get to that chorus and that bridge, it's like the exhale. It's like, Oh, look what the Lord has done. He's the offering. I come with nothing, and he doesn't expect me to come with anything.

And our obedience, just like with our little children, it's like That obedience is not what wins us favor. but it's what shows our love. For the Lord, because we say, I have nothing. beside you and It's such a beautiful Beautiful. Vision.

of what that looks like. Oh, it's it's it's it's I've I'm excited. I haven't seen it, so now I'm on the edge of my seat to go to go watch this video. But I'm very curious, and I hate that I'm ignorant, but I imagine a lot of the listeners are, viewers, may not be aware. That is When you said it's it's your church, is the church sovereign grace as well?

Or that's just the name of the Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, so Sovereign Grace Music is that we write and produce songs for the church, capital C, from our local churches. And that local church element, those are all sovereign grace churches.

So we have churches internationally, all over the world. Um and um So we are a part of Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville. And Sovereign Grace Central is in Louisville.

Sovereign Grace Music is in Louisville. And so the beauty of that. Is that Lisa?

So we're a church fan. We're a church denomination, a family of churches. Lisa is in our Knoxville church. And uh And so, and a lot of our songwriters are just in our different churches. And so, Lisa, from her church in her context, Brought that song to us, and it's something that she was really going through.

In her local church. And that's also the beauty of how we write for the local church: these songs are born out of. Um, stories and relationships and sermons and uh You know, we're not just like, hey, let's let's write a catchy Christmas song. You know, it's like we're trying to serve our churches and um and then the broader church as well.

So yeah. And I remember from the previous interview that Very much scriptural based. And so I am sitting there just processing in my mind: okay, the name.

Sovereign. Grace. It's a very unique concept if you just think about what that says. But I was curious if you knew. why they chose that name.

That's a great question. I probably should. I mean, probably the. Can I offer a little thing, a couple of things when I think about that? That You know, there's only one place I know of in Scripture where God describes himself.

And he's going to tell Moses, he's going to put him in the cleft of the rock, and he's going to go by him, and he's going to begin to talk. And what he says. is I will have I will be gracious unto whom I will be gracious to. which is sovereign Grace. Yeah.

Now, fascinatingly, in Romans 9, Paul quotes that. But what he says In the quote, based on the way it was translated in English, is: I'll have mercy on whom I'll have mercy on, which is a fascinating, beautiful thing that you can go. Then, once you see those words, go, no, Paul would have quoted the Old Testament, he would have used the word grace.

So, this word that's translated mercy, you'll find in other places in Scripture, like when Jesus heals the demoniac. He says, go tell the story of the grace, not the mercy I had for you, but the grace, because you think about the sovereign grace he had for this demoniac on the other side of the lake. And so when I think about you know, as I put this together and I'm listening to to to you Like, how cool is it? That his sovereign grace was that you would go to your father's church and you would come across this guy, and you just see it that. You know, and then we get to hear about it, right?

Because we did this podcast, and you know, I'll be thinking about that all day. What a beautiful story that is that that man, especially that last verse, which you highlighted so beautifully, is like, Yeah, he had nothing, but I don't either. Mm-hmm. Paul didn't have anything. It's like.

Yeah. He is the offering. It's so beautiful. It's amazing to me. And it fits so well with the concept of, yeah, it's amazing grace and it's sovereign.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a it's a beautiful concept because it is That we we on our own, like we're all just wretched. Sinners, right? There's nothing that we have to offer, nothing good.

You know, our best is but dirty rags. There's nothing good. And so again, We are also not to look down on others. We are to share the gospel, the only hope that there really is. And what a beautiful thing that it's like, you don't know who the Lord is going to give that to because he reserves it actually for the lesser of us.

And my husband, he had preached some sermons at our church before. And I remember when we were first married, he preached the sermon and he said something like, you know, if you, if you have been elect by Christ, it's not because you're so good. It's because you're probably one of the most vile among us. And he was like, because that's, you know, and we're all sitting there like, I'm offended, but it's true. Like, so I can't argue with it.

But it really puts it in perspective because God doesn't choose us because he says, oh, That's a good one right there. That one, that one deserves a little something extra. He chooses us because it showcases. His gloriousness. His complete otherness, right?

We tend to prefer the better, which again, going back to James, it's like our. just our propensity is to give favoritism toward those that are already high and lifted up. We give praise and honor to the beautiful. We give praise and honor to the intelligent. to those that are already esteemed in worldly eyes.

But Christ in his holiness, which means complete otherness. does the opposite, right? He he picked the wretch And the sinners like us. And so, what a beautiful thing that you get to take truth like that. And put it to music that we can dwell on richly in our heart because I think there's something so special about music that you can ruminate on and.

you know, David, I don't know about you, but as as a musician, I feel like that is my deepest sense of worship. Like, more than anything else that I do in my day when I sing to the Lord. That feels like my most Authentic time of worship. And there are definitely times when I'm singing through tears, not through a joyful heart. But the Lord puts different songs on your heart.

And I've often thought, too, that the Lord must really love being praised through music because think about how many people in the world. have some sort of musical talent. And it just makes me think the Lord must really enjoy that, whether it's our instruments or our voices or whatever it may be. But such a such a neat thing. And go ahead.

Yeah, he I mean he is a singing God, so he sings over us. Yeah. So you just think about that, you know, Zephaniah, what what what does his voice sound like as he Yeah. As he himself sings. Yeah.

Doesn't doesn't Revelation describe his voice as like roaring roaring roaring waters? Yes, running waters. The voice of many waters. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, I was gonna say, so obviously with your dad's church, you have a little extra extra pull and plug there. Your dad can easily contact you. Do you guys perform for other churches as well? Like, can people book you to perform at their church? Um no, not necessarily.

Um, You know, there's beautiful limitations in what we're attempting to do in Sovereign Grace. Intentionally. We are a ministry that is dedicated to our local church. And so what touring does is it takes you out of your local church on Sundays. And we happily give that over so that we can be at our local church on Sundays.

So we don't necessarily tour. What we do do is we. perform uh this event called Prepare Him Room. At our churches.

So we don't have anything on the west coast, unfortunately, ever. But we are in. Knoxville. Uh we're in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. We have our church in Louisville that we go to, and then we also have a church in New Orleans.

And then some of the churches that we've added have been like. Franklin and um You know, potentially.

So we sort of stay on the East Coast because it's easy to drive to those locations. But I mean, obviously, anyone could come. Those are always open to the general public. But we typically only host them in Sovereign Grace Churches.

Okay. So when you do those, do you all do them at the same time? We do them in like a span of two weeks because a lot of our people who are musicians who come with us, they're like accountants and graphic designers. And so it's like we have to keep it like pretty tight.

So we will do like two shows in one week with travel days in between. And then so that we can be home on Sundays. And then we'll do. Another week with a couple dates sprinkled in there.

Okay. But actually, I'm not entirely aware when this will. release, but we are trying to this year. Uh record All of Prepare Him Room live. We're doing two nights in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

And Lord willing, we will be able to record that and then take those and then post them and then post the whole concert. Because we have a lot of friends internationally and friends on the West Si West Coast that are very bummed that we never book Book it, you know, over there. Yeah. So hopefully that'll be a resource to people. That will probably come out in a year or two.

Okay. What time of year do you guys usually do the prepare him room? Always the first two weeks in December.

Okay. So is that something that people that are on the East Coast or are near those locations that you mentioned, can they look that up on your website? Definitely. And in November and December, like in November, we start promoting that everywhere that we. you know, where we're where we're going and where we're hosting events and stuff, yeah.

But for this year it's uh It's Harrisburg, Knoxville, New Orleans, and Louisville.

Okay. And what is your website?

So the people that are listening or watching can go find out all that information. www.sovereign gracemusic dot com.

Okay, sovereigngrace music.com. And you mentioned that you have three Christmas albums. Is that correct? Yes, I believe so. Uh we have some singles thrown in there as well.

Okay. Um but uh but yeah, um He who is mighty um And uh Prepare him room in heaven has come.

Okay, and this song, Oh, Come, All You Unfaithful, is from Heaven Has Come. Is that correct? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

You know, it just dawned on me: one of the neat things that people could do is they could get your album and actually give a little gospel presentation and give it to their neighbors and just say, Hey, I just wanted to tell you that. The gospel is for everyone. And we love you. And we hope that you are blessed by this album and especially this song. What a neat way to love other people.

It i yeah. It that's a that's a great idea. And what we also do, um, which is really fun, we don't have any other pressed versions of any of our albums, but we do um vinyls of Are two of our most popular Christmas albums, Heaven Has Come and Prepare Him Room. And we have that on vinyl because a lot of people like to. In my family, we, you know, we start after the day after Thanksgiving, we start the vinyls, the Christmas vinyls.

Um So we sell those at our concerts and stuff. But that's sweet. And those are neat gifts for sure. And for my generation, there are albums. There you go.

I love other people's CDs albums.

So my husband's like, honey, that's not correct. We don't call that album. He's older than me.

So we joke about that. I'm young, so to me, a CD, you know, well, David, it's been such a joy to have you on the show today and to have you for a second time. And those, again, those that are watching right now, go back and listen to what he had to say about. The impact that music has on our grief because it's huge. What we listen to, what we fill our minds with, can either take us from a state of despair and weeping or Declaration and worship.

And so I would highly recommend that you listen to that and that we fill our hearts with music that causes our hearts to rejoice, especially at this season, because God has not left us in our suffering, and He won't. And even those that are grieving this year. Take it to the Lord. Turn it, turn your weeping to worship. And What a beautiful thing when you see the Lord.

He will meet you there.

So, David, thank you so much for joining us today on Hope in the Morning. Thank you so much for having me back again. I can't believe it. It was an honor. Hope in the Morning is a non-profit ministry that seeks to encourage the hurting.

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