Welcome to Hope in the Morning. turning tragedies and tears into testimonies of hope. Welcome to Hope in the Morning. I'm your host, Emily Curtis. Originally, I was going to discuss how those who are facing terminal illnesses can be encouraged to finish their race well.
However, after prayer, in light of all that we have recently faced as a nation and the world's increasing hostility to truth and to Christ. I feel compelled to challenge the listeners today, along with myself, with this question. Are we running the Christian race with endurance and boldness? or are we running with complaisant mediocrity? As a universal church, we have lost some very pivotal men of the faith in recent months.
men like John MacArthur, James Dobson, and Charlie Kirk. Friends, we are not guaranteed a tomorrow. How are we running the race today? Are we running with an aim to finish well? Joining me today to have this crucial conversation is Grace to You Executive Director Phil Johnson.
So thank you for joining me today on Hope in the Morning. Thanks for having me. I think more than ever, this is such a critical conversation for us to have because. It dawned on me, especially this past week, how I think for the first time, at least in my generation, in America, our faith is going to cost us something. And are we ready?
Are we prepared to finish? Um So I'd love to start by just talking about biblically what does that mean? to finish well.
Well, the Apostle Paul sort of summed it up at the end of his life, where he said. That he had run the race, and there was laid up for him a crown of rejoicing in heaven. Uh he had kept the faith, meaning He his faith hadn't wavered despite all the hardships he went through, and all you have to do is read his epistles to the Corinthians to know. What significant and it seems like non-stop difficulties the Apostle Paul. Faced multiple shipwrecks and all sorts of hostility.
He was stoned and left for dead. Uh I mean, he went through all kinds of things and imprisoned for at least twice for extended periods of time. Uh, and yet he kept the faith in all of that. He trusted Christ, knowing that all things work together for good, and in the end, uh, he would receive that crown of rejoicing, which makes everything we suffer in this world worthwhile. Yeah, and I think one of the things that we can look at as Christians is when we look at our suffering from a perspective of our eternal hope, it makes the suffering lighter.
Because just as you said, it's like we do have something beyond this life, but also we can look through scripture and see how God actually uses our suffering as moments to refine us and make us more like Christ. But it's a pretty telling point in our faith when we suffer. How have you seen God use suffering to either harden people or soften their hearts?
Well, it can have both effects. And in fact, it was the Apostle Paul in the midst of all his suffering who wrote: I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy. to be compared with the glory that's going to be revealed. to us or in us the The Greek is a little ambiguous there, and I think actually it includes both ideas: that God's glory will be revealed to us, and we will share that glory in our glorified body, so his glory will be revealed in us. And Paul was saying: no matter how bad the sufferings in this present life are, they're not worthy to be compared with an eternity of glory.
Uh it's hard for us to reorient our minds to that because our Framework, our perspective is just this temporal life. And so scripture constantly reminds us that this life is a vapor, it's short and it's over quickly. Yeah. You know, it's not worthy to be compared with the glory that will be revealed in us ultimately. Yeah.
With our Christian walk, you know, that's something that I see such a need for us to come alongside one another too. How can we encourage each other in our walk, not just in times of suffering, but to be faithful? We're surrounded by so many distractions everywhere. How do we practically encourage one another to be faithful? Yeah, and it has to be a constant thing, really.
I think it's not sufficient to say, you know, I'll pray for you and then just sort of walk away. We have to be constantly. Encouraging one another. And when scripture says, don't forsake the assembly of yourselves together, it's of course talking about the church gatherings, but. More than that, the whole point of that is for us to encourage and uphold one another.
And that's a That's a full-time. That's a full-time task. Yeah. Yeah, my kids are actually, my two oldest kids are in cross-country right now. And something that I have learned in that is that it is a very, it's a full-time, disciplined sport.
Running is. I think that's a good idea. I think that there's a lot to be said for the fact that that is how our walk with Christ is equated, is to a race and to the finishing line. And so you think about how we have to train for that. And so, what are some of the disciplines that we should be practicing as believers on a regular basis in order to finish our race well?
Well, persistence for one thing. You wouldn't know it to look at me now, but I used to be a distance runner myself. I ran the first Chicago Marathon. Wow. And One thing you learn is persistence.
And in fact, my first experience in a marathon. I sort of learned that because it was that course was out and back and you go out you feel strong and then you hit the wall And you have to get back to where you started or Well And this was the days before cell phone, you couldn't just ring somebody up and say, Bring me a car. You had to keep going. You just had to keep going. And as painful as it got, or as grueling or difficult as it As it seemed, and as little energy as you felt, you just had to persist.
And the spiritual life is exactly like that. You get to points many times in life where you feel like. Giving up. Like, I've just expended all the energy I have and, and, You know.
Okay, so Continuing with that, I think One of the things that you kind of just talked about a little bit, and I think that people actually misuse that phrase in the Bible a lot: the fact that God won't give you more than you can handle. And there's truth to that, but it's not because it's our own strength. It's not that we can handle these things in In and of our own strength. That strength has to come from the Lord alone. And honestly, I think when we go through trials and sufferings, there's actually a lot of reassurance of salvation that can occur because you see.
Wow, I could not, I could not stand up on under this trial, I could not keep putting that next foot. In front of the other. And I think it was Elizabeth Elliott, right, who here her husband had just been killed, and she's got this young child, and she says, You just have to do the next thing. And just like you were equating that with running, sometimes we are exhausted, we're fatigued, we cannot. We cannot see how we could possibly get to the finish line.
But sometimes as believers what we have to do is do the next thing. Do the next thing that honors the Lord. And maybe don't think all the way as far as the finish line. One of the things that I was going to say too is that We have so many distractions around us right now. What would you say to those, especially in the younger generation, you know, those that are raising children or even those that are teenagers that might be listening?
How can we help keep our mind focused. For that race. Yeah, well, one of the commands in Scripture: be still and know that I am God. You have to set aside time. To read scripture and pray and clear your mind of all of those distractions.
And it is increasingly hard in the world that we live in. Because these things assault you non-stop. Even when you've got your phone. You know, on mute, it'll ring. It'll ring in my case through my hearing aids.
And it's hard to, it's really hard to.
Sort of unplug yourself from all of those distractions, but it takes a great deal of determination. And by the way, you made a great point. Scripture says, That God won't Subject us to trials that are greater than we can handle. He'll always. Provide a way of escape, but it doesn't always seem that way.
Scripture also says that He gives more grace. And it's it's my belief that the way of escape is often More grace. And we have to pray for that. And God gives grace to the humble. And you have to submit yourself to the Lord.
At those times when it feels like the struggle or the temptation or the trial you're going through is just too great, when you're tempted to give up, it's at that very Very point that you need the Lord more, and he promises to give more grace. And I found that when I silence my My concerns, my worries, my worldly distractions And just wait upon the Lord, He does give more grace, He does make that way of escape. I sadly can't claim that I always avail myself of that. I fail as much as anybody, maybe more. But uh There always is a way of escape.
And sometimes it's just as simple as silencing your heart and waiting on the Lord, and He gives more grace. Yeah. Touched on that, I think is really important for everyone to listen to is that humility. is a huge part of running the race well because we are going to falter. Even the strongest of us, those that we look to as quote unquote heroes of the faith, they're going to falter.
They're just men. And so we have to constantly be in repentance. We have to bring our shortcomings to the Lord and say, I need your grace to cover this and not act as if we. are are unable to slip. or fall.
Who do you think needs to be aware of the fact that that we can falter. in in this walk.
Well, all of us actually. And it does happen. I remember the story. I'm old enough to remember this. I think most people wouldn't.
Jim Ryan. Was a famous runner. He was the first high school student to break the four-minute mile. And he went to the Olympics. And I think I'm getting this story right.
This is out of my memory, which might be defective. But he went to the Olympics. And in the race that he was expected to win the gold medal, he fell. And uh Rather than walk off the track and give up because there was no chance he could win after they wouldn't meddle, he wouldn't, he was going to finish last. He got up and finished the race anyway.
And that won him a great deal of respect. And it's kind of a life lesson that that's how we as Christians should behave. We have a race to run, and we have a finish line to get to. And it doesn't matter if we fall. We have to pick ourselves up and continue to pursue follow after for the prize of the upward calling that.
That we've been given as Christians. Yeah, absolutely. That was the answer I was hoping that you were going to give because I think that. It's crucial that we all remember that none of us are above. Above faltering.
None of us are above falling. And that also, not only is that when we need to seek The grace of God, but we need to extend grace to one another too. And just as scripture tells us that we are to strengthen one another, we are to exhort one another, we are to encourage one another. And that is why it's important to be a part of the church. That's another thing that I think culturally, so many people are actually not an active part of the church.
And I think, actually, especially since COVID, they don't view it as pivotally important because they think, well, I can get there's all these online streaming resources and I'm still getting church, but you're not. You're actually not getting one of the most valuable needed resources within the church, which is that fellowship. And that is how we that's that's such an important part of how we can run with endurance because you have to have those people that can come alongside you, that can cheer you on, that can say, okay, you slipped here, let's get back up. Let's go finish this race. And sometimes that comes in the form of exhortation.
And how How do we lovingly Point out sin in each other's lives that we see our brother or sister could become entangled in, and it could cause them to falter in their race. Yeah, in fact, it's I would say it's not true fellowship. unless that's happening. Real fellowship necessarily entails a level of accountability where. We As you said, we give each other support and encouragement.
Part of that support and encouragement, if we're going to be honest with one another. If I want to encourage someone and I see him falling into sin, The scripture is very clear that I have a duty then to try to Help that brother up. But And and it's it's not to I mean, the point is not to scold or uh Make vengeance. Vengeance is mine, says the Lord. It doesn't belong to me.
But if I see a brother falling, I can help him by confronting him about his sin and encouraging him to. You know, get back up, repent. and continue to run the race. I think that's great advice. And when we come back, we're going to talk a little bit about a verse that has been really heavy on my heart this week that's in 1 Peter 5 and just kind of making us aware of the fact that we are in a spiritual war.
So when we come back from the break, we're going to talk about how our adversary, the devil, is also trying to trip us up and how we can be prepared for that.
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Welcome back to Hope in the Morning. I'm joined today with Executive Director at Grace TU Phil Johnson. And we are talking about finishing well. We all as Christians have a race that we are running toward the finish line. We don't know when that finish line is.
For some, it's 80, 90, 95 years, and for others, it is far shorter. And you don't know. You don't know if today is the day that you will meet your Savior. And so are you running that race well? First Peter five tells us to be of sober spirit.
Be watchful. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion. seeking someone to devour. but resist him firm in the faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished among your brethren who are in the world. And after you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself restore.
strengthen, confirm, and ground you. to him be might for ever and ever. Amen. I was talking to my husband this morning, Phil, about the fact that I think in years past, you almost had to use a little bit of an imagination. Yeah.
picture the spiritual war. that we're in. I don't think you need an imagination anymore. At least here in America, you really don't. It is so prevalent.
It is so loudly in our face, the war that we are in. And all Ultimately Satan Satan does roam around. like a lion trying to get us to turn away. From the Lord. what what would you have to say to to those that are listening about how how can we be more mindful of the spiritual warfare that we're in.
Yeah, well, let me just repeat something that Paul Washer told me about two weeks ago. We were having a conversation about something and he said, Phil, This world is far more evil than the average Christian even can comprehend. The evil that surrounds us and threatens us, and evil, even within the evangelical movement. Uh Satan has his fingers in everything we do, and it's far more sinister than most of us realize. It's a serious battle that we're involved in, and scripture tries to tell us that.
I mean, that's Paul's whole point in Ephesians chapter 6: that we're not wrestling against flesh and blood. He doesn't mean to minimize the war, he's saying this is more serious than an enemy you can see. We're waging war against the forces of evil in high places, and he means in heavenly places.
Sort of unseen spirits, starting with the devil and his minions. Uh Scripture calls The devil. The God of this age and the prince of the power of the air. He rules this world in a sense.
Now, he can't do anything without God's permission. We learn that in the book of Job. But he nevertheless has more authority than we do in governing the affairs of this world. And that's why, if the world seems evil, It is. And we're not to love the world, the world system.
We love the people of the world, but not the world system, not the evil system that governs everything. And Uh that explains why you you can't You can't You know, it's great to vote for. Uh politicians and candidates who reflect A more biblical worldview, but that's not going to make this world holy. You can't do it by political means. Because Satan really holds the reins.
And so we live in a culture that is inherently infused with. With evil forces, and we that's why we have to stay on the alert and realize that we are engaged in a battle. Second Corinthians chapter 10 also talks about it: that our role is not a battle against flesh and blood, Ephesians 6. Which means we don't fight with conventional weapons. This is not the sort of warfare where.
The shedding of blood is common or anything like that. But our task is to pull down the strongholds. This is how the language Paul uses in 2 Corinthians 10. Pull down the strongholds of. Uh, false ideologies, false beliefs, the lies of Satan were to expose with the truth and rescue the people who are in bondage, spiritual bondage, because of those.
those falsehoods that Satan generates. Yeah. You know, even going back to what you were saying with with politics. I think that it's so More than any other generation, too, like politics and biblical truths are intertwined right now in a bigger way than they've ever been before. Because so many of the things that are discussed as quote-unquote politics really are a hard biblical line.
You know, whether it's abortion or transgenderism or homosexuality, there is a steadfast biblical truth to be had in each of those. And so there is an element where we as believers do need to speak. for the truth on those things, but also speaking not only with boldness, but But with love as well. And, you know, in scripture, when it talks about how we are to be shrewd as serpents, but innocent as doves, and we do not want to. Retaliate at all.
I mean, even with all of this that has just happened this past week with Charlie Kirk, and you see so many people that, um, There are people in the world that are rejoicing over this evil. But then I also see the flip side of that where you have some. believers or people that are um you know showing their condolences that are unfriending people. in droves. And I think to I think to myself in that Is that what we ought to be doing?
Because even. you know in In Hebrews 12, when it talks about because we have so great a cloud of witnesses, we need to run our race in a way that shows that we. Do belong to Christ, that we are fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. That kind of goes with social media too. You talk about a cloud of witnesses.
You know, many of us have thousands of quote-unquote followers. How are we laying our witness? bare before a world that is really starving. For Christ Can you speak to that a little bit about how we can use things like social media to Promote the gospel and to shed light to a world that is in darkness? Right.
And you're right. It is serious. This is serious business. It's not. it it's not merely fun and games, and there's a place for humor and and even sarcasm, I think, in our communications With other people.
But we have to be really careful. And social media makes it tempting to be flippant and glib in a way that doesn't really reflect. uh the the the gravity of What we stand for, and the lordship of Christ.
So, Um Yeah, it's something you have to keep in mind. Maybe I'm not the best person to ask because I. I mean, I've gotten myself in trouble on social media from time to time by being too glib or too flippant or humorous when it was not appropriate to do that, things like that. And I have to keep reminding myself that every word I say, I will give account. Before God.
And that includes the words you spell out in a tweet or you put on your Facebook page. And so we need to be thoughtful in everything we post like that and realize there are, and especially those of us who have You know, more listeners, more followers on social media than we have actual friends in real life. I don't know who all those people are, and I'm confident that not all of them are believers.
So, my testimony before those people is extremely important, and that's something we all need to remind ourselves of constantly. Yeah, I think that goes back to 1 Peter, actually, where it talks about being of sober spirit and watchful. And that doesn't mean that we need to be melancholy in our personality. We can have the joy of the Lord, we can enjoy the beauties of this world, we can enjoy things like humor. But I think understanding at the end of the day what our purpose here is on earth, and our purpose ultimately is to glorify God.
It's not to seek after our own pleasures, it is to glorify God, it's to edify one another, and it's to be light and soul. in the world. Yeah, I think I know for I'm gonna speak personally here because I think for me, something that I have really, I guess, battled with is that that desire to be a people pleaser. You know, I have grown up my whole life being a performer. I think that that partly plays into it.
You're used to having this desire to. Please your audience, you know? But the older I get, the more I learn that. That is not That That's not what matters, you know. The old cliche that you have an audience of one, but the reality is that.
If you are living a faithful Christian life, you're going to offend some people. You're going to make some people not like you.
Now, the caveat to that, and this goes out to some other people that I think might be listening, but Our goal is not to offend people. That sometimes is the result of speaking truth because darkness hates the truth. But we don't we want to be mindful. not to not to be harsh in the way that we deliver things. We want to speak truth in love, which is a very hard thing.
I think that that most of us either have a bent toward Being loving? or being truthful, you know, like it's a hard, it's a hard thing to bring together. Is that something that you have learned, especially in having a more public ministry? Have you had to kind of learn that art of speaking truth in love? Yes, and I don't pretend to be a master of it either.
And there are people on social media at both extremes, there are those who are. Are so afraid to offend that they think anything they say that might offend someone, they've said something wrong. And so they'll actually modify their views.
so that they're more in step with what what people want. Yeah. And that's bad. On the other hand, you've got Maybe a smaller number of people, but they're very vocal. who seem to thrive on upsetting their opponents.
And Uh that's That's just Purely wicked. We have to speak the truth in love. And yeah, that's a constant struggle as well. I would say. Uh it's one of the But ooh.
One of the natural Progressions that we all grow in as we are sanctified. And just like I'm never going to be perfectly sanctified until I get. my glorified body in heaven with Christ. And yet, I pursue that as a goal. In the same way, I don't think I'll ever be a real master of speaking the truth in love, but I have to keep.
Pursuing that goal. Yeah. And it's not easy. I've been at it since I got on the internet in 1995. It was before.
It was really social media, but we used to have theological debates in email forums. You'd write an email and send it to the group, and it would go to this whole group and then. Uh People would agree or disagree with you and send their own email, and that would go to the group. And so it was sort of like social media in that and there was a lot of debating and disagreement, especially in the theological forums. And I learned early on that no matter what you say.
Somebody's going to be upset.
Somebody's going to be offended.
So, in the first place, if you're going to speak the truth in love, you have to have a good grasp of what the truth is. Yeah. And you have to have strong convictions that don't change automatically just because someone got offended. And realize that there are lots of people who are easily offended. And yet, that should never be your goal to offend people.
When I started my blog, I noticed. This back in 2005, I started my blog. I'd been on the internet for 10 years. and blogging became a thing and uh I thought That's an interesting Sort of venue, and so I started a blog, and I immediately was dealing with controversial. Theological topics.
I think my very first post was on Calvinism, which is guaranteed to get a fiery debate, you know. And for several weeks, it seemed like everything I posted, and I tried to get less and less controversial because I just was weary of all the Conflict. And one day I thought, I'm going to post something that nobody can disagree with. And I linked to an article about a church that was evangelizing their neighborhood and just put the article up and said, no comment necessary. And somehow, that my remark, no comment necessary.
Generated its own little controversy. What does he mean by that? What does he think? Does he disagree with these people? And it started a fight that went on and on.
And I realized. Literally, anything you put on the internet. is going to make somebody mad.
So, you just have to understand that and realize that speaking the truth in love. begins with a rock solid commitment to truth. And the only truth we can be absolutely certain of is what's revealed to us in Scripture. That ought to be what we as Christians are devoted to and concerned about. Yeah.
So Speaking the truth in love. A lot of that does come down to also having humility. And we had talked about we had talked about that. And There's an aspect of humility that plays a big part in our suffering, too, because.
Sometimes when we go through suffering, we are tempted to have the thought By me. Why am I going through this? Especially if it's compounded. You know, some people go through a Job-like season where it really is one thing after another, after another, after another. And even talking about how we encourage one another, we obviously have a great example in Job of what not to do, as his friends did.
But We can have a humility. Before the Lord, in knowing that He's created us, we are fully His and His to do with whatever He desires. Um and having having our own life held before him with those open hands.
So Switching gears here just a little bit on finishing well. For those that That knows, not all of us know, many of us don't know when our day is, but some of us know that that day may be closer than. than others. Maybe they have been diagnosed with a terminal illness and Um Would you share with us just a little bit about what health trial you have faced over the last couple of years? Yeah, in in the beginning of 2024, I had elective surgery on my shoulder.
I'd had an injury since my college days, a sports injury, that caused. Intensive pain. And so I finally decided to have my shoulder fixed. And that was successful. And it was much easier.
I'd had shoulder surgery when I first injured it. And that was one of the most painful things I ever had. This one was successful, but in the wake of it, I developed a blood clot that went into my lungs, so pulmonary embolism, which can be life-threatening. Mine wasn't that bad, but as they were testing for that, They did some blood tests, and they sent me to the emergency room with pulmonary embolism. And the emergency room doctor said, Hembolism isn't so great we would hospitalize you, but your blood tests show.
Your kidneys aren't working. And so we're going to admit you to the hospital and put you on dialysis. which caught me completely off guard. I mean, this didn't have anything to do with the shoulder surgery. It was just something they accidentally found, or I would say providentially.
The Lord was sort of moving me towards a a diagnosive diagnosis of something much more serious.
So they assigned me to a one of the finest Kidney doctors in the world. And she looked at the figures and the blood tests and everything. And she said, I think your kidneys were shocked by the surgery and they'll come back. But we'll give it time. You can be on dialysis and let's see if the numbers improve.
And the numbers did improve. And I'm thinking, I'm getting better. This is good. Everything's going to come out okay. And She called me to say, I have good news and bad news.
She says, The good news is your kidneys are functioning fine.
So you don't need to be on dialysis anymore. I think your kidneys are healed. But she said, Your blood tests show that your light chains are off the chart. And I said, My what? I never heard of light chains.
She says, that's a protein in your blood that. Normally, it's supposed to be the number in your blood test should be around 30. Yours is more than 3,000. Wow. And she said, I think you ha you may have multiple myeloma.
And so she said, I want you to get a bone marrow biopsy and let's see what they diagnose. And so they did that and said, Yeah, it's multiple myeloma. That is a kind of blood cancer that is not curable. It's treatable, so you can have that kind of cancer and still. still live I I I've talked to people who've lived 10, 15 years.
Uh The diagnosis and uh One of the treatments they use, and what they did with me was a stem cell transplant where they filtered my blood like a dialysis. And you put you on a machine and run your blood through this dialysis-like machine, and it takes out stem cells from your own blood. which they store and then they give you a a chemotherapy that literally Destroys your bone marrow and your whole blood system. And then they re-inject those stem cells, which regenerate your bone marrow. And so your body's producing better blood with less of these destructive proteins in it.
Okay. And so I went through that back in January. And I feel better now. I'd say I'm 70%, maybe 75%. I'll never be 100% again.
And if I live long enough, I'm 72, so there's still a chance I'll die of old age. But uh if I live long enough. the the cancer w will be fatal.
So it's a terminal disease. And you mentioned people say, well, why me? I'm enough of a Calvinist and uh and believe in my own depravity enough that my response to that would be Why not me? I mean, I deserve worse than what the Lord has let me suffer. And um And so I'm not bitter about it or shocked about it.
And honestly, it hasn't. It hasn't depressed me in any way. And I've known about it now for more than a year. Every time I visit the doctor, they put me through a series of questions. About whether I feel suicidal or if I'm depressed.
And they're very concerned about what it might do to you. And I keep telling them: no, I'm fine. You know, I'm ready to die. And I think that's a great part of finishing well. You have to, you, you have to.
be ready even eager to die like the Apostle Paul said It's far better for me to depart and be with Christ. But I still want to be here for the sake of the people I minister to, and especially my family, my grandkids. I don't want to leave them early, of course.
So it's not like I'm itching to die. But I'm not afraid of it either.
So uh That's a good position, I think, to be in. And even if I didn't have a terminal disease at age 72, I better be getting my life, my house in order and be ready to meet the Lord because I'm not going to live another, I'm not likely to live another 25 years. Yeah. Yeah. 25 years is not a long time.
Yeah, I agree with you. And You know, in Psalm 139, which we talk about that a lot in the case of, like, in the cases of miscarriage or child loss, you know, we quote Psalm 139 a lot, and that is definitely a source of comfort. But it was striking me as I was preparing for the interview with you, how how those verses could be a comfort to those that are diagnosed. With something that's a terminal illness, especially for those that are perhaps significantly younger, you know, maybe those that are in their 20s or their 30s that are just starting families. From your perspective, how do you think the words of one hundred thirty nine could bring comfort?
Well, just knowing the the omnipresence of God and and his nearness to every one of us. Paul mentions that in his His sermon on Mars Hill, that he's the Lord is not far from any of us. And that to me is a is both a comfort and a reason to fear God. I mean, He sees everything we do, He knows all of our thoughts. And Uh So that should be a fearful thought to someone who's trifling with sin.
But to someone who's preparing his heart to meet Christ, Uh it's a comfort to know that he's nearby and Uh and Scripture is full of promises that should keep us from fearing the consequences of Of our mortality. We all are going to die. It's appointed unto man once to die. That's not the scary part. It's what comes next.
After that, the judgment. Yeah. I think initially when I had approached you about joining us for this episode, I had told you that what I wanted to call the episode was a theology to suffer with. And we had kind of, especially through getting the pamphlet, which I'll touch toward the end, on Finishing Well that John MacArthur wrote and reading through that. Kind of changed the perspective as far as how important it is for us to finish well.
That we are all in this race and we need to know how to finish well. But a big part of that is our theology. And I hear it even in your own testimony about your own diagnosis, about how your theology played a very big role in your perspective on it. And so. What would you say to those that are, maybe they have a weaker theology, maybe they've not been part of a strong church, maybe they have kind of been.
Forsaking the assembly for lack of any differing terminology. How would you encourage and exhort them. To Build up a strong theology and center their perspective of suffering. around their theology. Yeah, I always tell people: look, nobody becomes an expert theologian overnight.
It's a long process. to understand scripture and know God and And um and It's sort of Rest in his love, but it's a very practical thing. And for those who suffer, Uh the practical aspect of theology really becomes important. Because knowing God is probably the most comfort-giving thing that you could experience in the midst of any kind of suffering, but particularly something like a terminal disease. Where you know that you're for the rest of your life, you're not going to get better, you're going to get worse and worse and worse, and you can pray to God for healing and all, but.
That's not the that's not the final biblical answer to every Every sickness, the the Again, scripture is very clear. It's appointed unto man wants to die. We all are going to die. And it's appointed, which means. there's a time when that's definitely going to happen.
You have an appointment with death, and after that, an appointment with God's judgment. And there's nothing you could do to comfort you more. Under the realization that That's where your life is headed. That's where all of our lives are headed. Nothing would give you more comfort than getting to know God and understanding the love of the one who you're going to stand before in judgment.
and love him and appreciate his glory. And that will bring you comfort in the midst of any kind of suffering.
Well, and a danger When we don't have a strong theology, when we go into suffering. And as you said, We don't have to be theologians. We don't have to be these seminary graduate theologians where we know everything. But we need to know what scripture says. We need to know the truth.
We need to know the truth about God's character. And One of the very real dangers if we don't have a strong theology to suffer with. Our suffering will dictate our theology. And that, that, you see that all the time. People say, well, how could a good God, allow this.
That is them allowing their suffering or the suffering of someone else To dictate their theology, what they believe to be true and accurate about the character of God. And It's so important for us as we wrestle with our Humanity, as we wrestle with the fact that our lives are a vapor, that we will suffer throughout this life. for us to be rooted. In the truth of who God's unchanging, unwavering character is, which He is good, He is steadfast, He is never changing, He is compassionate. Yeah.
Yeah. he will do us no harm. For his children, he will do us no harm. But you see that dichotomy in. In the story of Job, which again, I think is why it was so important to talk about the fact that there is a spiritual war here.
And just because we are believers does not mean that we have this hedge of protection around us where nothing can touch us, where there's no evil that can touch us. There's no harm that can come our way ever. You see it in the story of Job, that God did allow it, but he allowed it for Job's sanctification. He allowed it for a good purpose. And we see God's character as a redeemer.
Through suffering and all that he does allow, we can trace his hand of redemption through it all, all the way to the cross of Christ. And I think I think when when we are not rooted firmly and when we don't have a church to go to and bring our our burdens to. to bring our burdens before brothers and sisters in Christ. There's a greater temptation to to listen to the lies of the enemy. what he wants us to believe.
that are untruths about the character of God, he wants us to question. The character of God. And our suffering can either refine us and make us more like Christ. Or it can it can reduce us to rubble. if we are not firmly planted.
So With that, How do you think, and even how have you experienced how fixing our eyes on the promises of God and his character can actually bring about? Joy. in our suffering. Yeah, and I would say it the way you said it. You made a really good point, and I don't want to let it get away.
And that is, we need to understand our suffering through the lens of our theology. And not the other way around. It isn't that theology is explained by your suffering, but. the opposite. Your theology is what should help you understand uh you're suffering.
And and I would say that not only about suffering, but Any experience in life that our theology should interpret. Our experience and not let our experience dictate what our theology is. And Job is the perfect example of that. And I think it's one of the reasons the Lord allowed him. To suffer and sustained him in all that.
And let's not forget that at the end of his life, The Lord restored everything to Job.
Now, someone might say, Yeah, but his kids were killed. He didn't get them back. No, he got more kids, and he gets those kids back when they all get reunited in glory.
So he didn't really lose anything permanently. It was all temporary. And yes, it was painful, and yes. It was more than most of us could bear.
So, why Job?
Well, scripture says at the very beginning, in the very first chapter, that he was a righteous man, and there was no one who was more righteous than him. And that doesn't mean that he was so well-behaved that God really loved him. His righteousness was rooted in his faith. His belief system. And that's consistent through scripture.
Our faith is counted for righteousness. From the very beginning in the book of Genesis, it's what it says about Abraham. And then Paul makes that point about our salvation in Christ. Our faith, because of our faith, the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us.
So we have a righteous standing before God because of our faith, because of our belief system. It's not about how good we are. Although, if you have faith, then the fruit of that should be good behavior. But you don't earn God's favor by that good behavior. It's the other way around.
You trust Him, and because of your belief system, He counts you righteous. He gives you a righteous standing. And that, in turn, then helps you to be sustained in the midst of suffering. Because the heart of that belief system is a faith in God, which means a trust that He is good. That he has good purposes, that he's also sovereign, so he's in control of everything.
And that's, again, true in the case of Job, it's very clear. That book gives us a sort of window into what happens in the heavenly warfare. Satan couldn't do anything against Job without God's permission. Yeah. And you see it again with Peter.
Jesus tells him: Satan has desired to have you so that he could sift you like wheat. And John McCarthy used to always say, if I was Peter, I'd be saying, well, you told him no. But But he didn't. The Lord let Satan sift Peter like wheat, but it was for Peter's benefit. And yes, it hurts to go through that, but if you have the right belief system, if your worldview is correct and rooted in faith in God, then you know that no matter what happens to you and how bad it seems, God has a good purpose in it.
And he will work all things together for the good of those who love him. That's a promise that I've clung to for my entire Christian life, and the Lord has never failed me. There have been times when I wondered and even said out loud, I don't see how the Lord could make anything good come out of this situation. But then looking back on it later, I al have always had to admit He knew what he was doing and he did bring something really good out of that. Bad, ugly situation.
Yeah. Well, and that's why it's so important for our eyes to be opened to the spiritual realm of things and not just, not just what we are experiencing physically here on earth or what our feelings are. And not that there is no, um, Weightiness to those, and especially those of us that are ministering to those that are suffering. We don't want to diminish the reality of the suffering. We want to come alongside, not as Job's friends, but as true comforters.
But I think that when we can have those open eyes to what is going on in the spiritual realm, when we can keep a focus going back to the story of Job, of reminding ourselves that that was not just a one-time thing, that is an insight into what is happening all the time, especially with the righteous. Because Satan is the accuser. He wants to say, see how he did that, God? See how he didn't trust you there? Do you really want to save him?
He's not worth saving. He doesn't trust you. You know, and when we have those open eyes, though, That means that when we experience feelings of depression or when we start having thoughts of Doubting God or doubting his goodness we can have a mind that says, how am I being tempted? right now. How am I being tempted to discount the character of God?
How am I being tempted to rely on my works? Which another thing that I think is an important. thing to talk about is the fact that oftentimes you know as believers we believe that faith in christ alone Is what grants us our salvation: that we repent of our sins, that we place our trust fully in Him, not on our own good works, lest anyone should boast. But I have seen this happen. I've seen it happen in loved ones in my own family even.
When they're on their deathbed, we have For some reason, we have this feeling of We really do feel like we needed to do this checklist of did I do good enough? And there can be a fear. Toward the end of people's lives, genuine believers can have this fear of whether or not they are going to. actually go be with the Lord. In their final hours.
And it's not that everyone experiences that, but I know from talking to multiple pastors, it's not an uncommon thing either. Um How are you? Yeah, you see a hint of that even in the Apostle Paul.
Now, he was confident when it came to his time to die that. He had finished the race well and there was laid up for him a crown and all that. But if you read Romans 7, you can also see that he went through moments when he would look at his own, his own, when he looked at his performance, he realized that he always fell short. And he refers to himself as a wretched man and says, Who will deliver me from the body of this death? And I think that's what you're describing: that people go through that sometimes the closer.
closer they are to death, because we all realize that Once I die, I'm going to face God in judgment and I'm going to have to give account. for everything I did or didn't do. And uh I don't look forward to having to give account. I can't. I don't expect to stand before God and say, I did everything good.
So I get that feeling. I'm as wretched or more wretched than the Apostle Paul. And yet my trust is in Christ, who is perfect. And because I'm covered with his righteousness, I don't have any reason to fear. Ultimate and eternal destruction.
And I think that that's something that we can point each other to. You know, for those of us that have found ourselves around the deathbed of a loved one, or for those that are pastors or seminary students that are listening right now, that Maybe. May find yourself in that circumstance where you are ministering to someone on their deathbed and they struggle with that. I recently talked to a pastor about how do you handle that situation and I I loved what he said because it's so simple and yet I think it's such a great tool for us to have in our arsenal, which is just simply when people are struggling with that, you can even just say, Hey, would you like to just go before the Lord with me now? And pray that the Lord would forgive you of all your sins, cleanse you from all your unrighteousness, and show you His grace and His mercy.
And He was telling me how countless times that has put. people that he knew To be true believers, people that he had seen walk the faith and run the race. It helped put their heart. And It's that simple. with me, with the family member that that I had experience with that with they were not 100% in their right mind at the end.
And so you can't really go through and have a theological discussion with them saying, you know, at this point in time, you believed this and you believed that. Just keeping it simple and meeting them where they are. I thought that was such great advice. What what would you say is A way that we can encourage brothers and sisters that that are struggling with that. Yeah, exactly like you said.
And I would put it like this: the answer to those fears is the gospel. And so you preach the gospel to that person or... You're the one having the doubts, preach the gospel to yourself. You see that in the book of Psalms where. Uh David writes, you know.
Bless the Lord, oh my soul, and and don't forget his benefits. And then he begins to remind himself of all the benefits of his salvation. And that's the answer. You preach the gospel to yourself. The gospel is the answer to every doubt, every fear, every bit of uneasiness that we have.
And I think we need to get back in the habit of. Of realizing the gospel is not just the beginning step of our Christian life, it's what Frames our understanding of God and our trust in Christ and and uh It's the thing that keeps us moving forward in sanctification. Preach the gospel to yourself. You can never do too much of that. Yeah.
Well, and that's the prize that we're running toward, right? We are running toward the prize of Christ. We're running toward the prize of no longer battling the flesh because. I think that's one of the hardest parts of the Christian walk: is that here we have a soul that is transformed. We have a heart that.
Desires to honor the Lord, and yet we have flesh that is weak. And so when we, when we, Falter when we fall, when we fall short of praising God the way that we would want to. There can be a temptation to doubt because we feel like, why do I not love you more? Why, with all that you have. all that you have sacrificed for me.
Why am I not more bold for the gospel? Why am I missing these opportunities? Why am I fearful of man over you? And yet, Christ in his mercy. can remind our hearts that That a day is coming for the believer when we will be completely free of sin.
And what a glorious prize that will be. That we are able to worship the Lord without any encumbrance of sin. None. It will be gone forever. And what, what a beautiful gift, something that we can look forward to and run with endurance.
And as we close out this episode, I wanted to talk about one of the most encouraging passages that I've ever read. And this is actually something that my grandmother, who I know you're familiar with, Phil, and she's actually done an episode here.
So those of you that want to see her, Dolores Michelson, she did an episode on the importance of scripture memorization. But she had exposed me to this passage years ago, and I absolutely love it. And it's a little segment from a Charles Spurgeon sermon. And it can actually be found in the back of our book, Hope in the Morning. And I'm just going to read it here because it is such a powerful excerpt.
And we entitled it, Climbing the Mountain. And this is what it says. It says, Behold then before your eyes, believer, the hill of God. This mount of which we speak is not Mount Sinai, but the chosen hill whereon are gathered the glorious company of angels, the spirit of the just made perfect, the church of the first born, whose names are written in heaven. And we are the pilgrims making our way to the top of God's mountain, full, often joyous with faith, but sometimes weary and footsoar.
You may say, I shall never ascend the hill of God, for I am weak, and the hill is exceeding high, too lofty to be attained by tottering feet like mine. I am so sore tired. The road is very rough. My bones ache, my knees bend, my head is giddy, and I drag my bleeding feet with anguish from crag to crag. O my dear brother, be of good cheer If that be thine only cause for mourning, lay it aside.
For remember, whilst thou art weak, it is not thy strength which is to carry thee there, but God's. If nature had undertaken to ascend into the celestial mountain, indeed you might despair. But it is grace, all conquering grace, that is to do it. It is true the hill is steep, but then God is omnipotent. it is certain the Alp is high, but higher still is the love and grace of God.
He hath borne you. He hath carried you, and he will carry you even to the end. When you cannot walk he will take you in his arms. And when the road is so rough that you cannot even creep along it, he will bear you as on eagle's wings till you bring till he brings you to his promised rest. Those stones those stones and flints give foothold.
Stand then strong in the strength of God, and be of good courage. When you have nothing else to trust to, put your hand within the hand of the Eternal God, and He will wisely lead and powerfully sustain you. Look up, man Look up The Scripture does not say, Let us run with trembling the race that is set before us, looking to our own tottering legs. No But it says, Let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus. What if the crag be steep, and the precipice be grim?
What is that to thee? You will never fall while your faith is fixed on your God. Look up to the Father of lights with whom there is no variableness. He bids you silently look unto Him and stand securely. Courage, pilgrim, courage Up that cragman Now put hand and knee to it up for when you have climbed a little higher, ay, but a very little, you shall lie down to rest.
and then no more fatigue or sorrow or or pain. And, brethren, when we shall mount to the hill of God, what sights we shall see We shall see the king in his beauty. we shall behold his face. We shall look into his eyes. We shall drink love from the fountain of his heart.
Friends, I hope that you have been encouraged by this episode of Hope in the Morning and that you will run. With endurance, the race that is set before you that you may finish well. If you're interested in learning more about how you can finish your Christian walk well, Grace2 has generously donated copies of Don MacArthur's booklet, Finishing Well. And we would gladly send you a copy of this if you write us at info.com. at hopeinthemorning.org.
Hope in the Morning is a non-profit ministry that seeks to encourage the hurting. He quit those who walk beside them and evangelize the lost with the Oh, okay. Jesus Christ. To partner with our ministry or to make a donation in your loved one's honor. Please visit hope in the morning.org.
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