Welcome to Hope in the Morning. turning tragedies and tears into testimonies of hope. One of the most difficult losses to face is the loss of a loved one who is still physically with us. When a loved one faces diseases like dementia or Alzheimer's, We lose the essence of the person that we love. It's a slow and a painful loss.
My guest to day is no stranger to sorrow. She has walked through many deep waters, including the diagnosis of Alzheimer's for her mother. Vanessa, thank you for being willing to share your testimony of hope today. Thank you for having me. I'd love to start out with you just kind of telling us about your mom and what makes her special.
It's hard because I find myself talking in past tense when I talk about her, but she is no longer speaking at this point.
So, you know, the way I remember her is how she was, and she's obviously very different today in the state that she is in, with her health declining so rapidly. But when I talk about my mom, my mom, my mom was a pistol. She was unapologetically loved Jesus, but it got her in trouble.
Okay. Like she would work in places like big box stores, where basically she was trying to sell products that. Were sold only sometimes in the store, if that makes sense.
Okay. And she literally would focus more on telling people about Jesus than she would about the product that she was selling, which is awesome, right? For the kingdom, we're like, yes, but not so good for business or keeping your job. And so she got herself in trouble a lot with that. She didn't really have much of a filter either, which got a little worse when the decline was happening mentally.
But of course, you know, friends around would be like, oh, it's so funny though And you know, sometimes it was cute and sometimes it was obviously a brutal reminder that she was declining. But She was so sacrificial. I will say that. As a mom, one thing that I learned about her more than ever was that she truly would lay down her life, just as Jesus did for us, for us kids. You know, like she would sacrifice everything.
She never bought clothes for herself. She never did anything for herself. She doesn't have any hobbies, you know. when people ask me, like, what did you like to do? Nothing.
She did everything for us, especially because she was a single mom for so many years. And so she wanted to give us the best. And that's what she did.
So. Yeah. Ah, how many years ago did your did your mom develop Alzheimer's?
Well, it was in 2022, just after Mother's Day, actually, that I got a call from a police officer. She lived in California, we're in Tennessee, and a police officer called me. And of course, right away, you think the worst, like she was in a car accident or something like that. But he actually said that she was caught shoplifting. Oh, wow.
I could explain my mom. Yeah. Last thing my mom would be doing is shoplifting, right? And so I was, I was so like taken back, and I'm questioning him, Are you sure it's my mom? You know, and sure enough, she was stealing pastries at a grocery store.
And Woman called and, of course, reported her. And the officer knew immediately that she shouldn't be driving her car back home, that she was not in a state mentally to probably care for herself. Completely shocked to be honest, even though just weeks prior Mother's Day, actually. I had told my mom that one of my daughters had taken me out for sushi for Mother's Day, and she asked me what sushi was. Yeah.
First time, while she had been repeating herself for a few years, sure, here and there. Like, I was like, okay, you already told me that. Things like that were happening. She wasn't calling me as frequently. There were some things that looking back, I realize now were red flags, but.
I wasn't thinking she was truly on the decline. And headed towards a dementia or Alzheimer's diagnosis at all. But when she didn't know the word sushi, I would I definitely had a pause. And I remember telling my husband, like, something's not right.
Something's not okay. And then, of course, this happened. And I, of course, went to California right away. And sadly, I knew it immediately when I and I I knew it immediately when she looked in my eyes and She wasn't there anymore. It wasn't her.
And I was so shocked because I had no idea. That's how far how far gone she was. Like, had no idea. How long had it been since you had last seen her? A long time.
It had literally been, and people always, honestly, I'm ashamed sometimes to say this because people are like, How have you not seen your mom for that long? It had been about. Probably almost nine years.
Okay. Was due to several reasons. There were financial reasons for a few years where neither of us could go either way. There was the reality that I knew she had become a hoarder. I knew that she had.
A situation in her home that was truly uninhabitable, in my opinion. And again, I didn't see this as a mental issue at the time. I saw this as my mom was just kind of giving up in life in a lot of ways, and I was trying to encourage her through it. She was very depressed because of a situation with my little sister, who also lives out in California. And so I feel like.
She had just kind of like given up on daily cleaning and things like that.
So, I, once I had children, I couldn't bring my kids to stay with her. She wouldn't leave her apartment, which again, I didn't chalk up to being something as severe as what it was. In hindsight, there are so many things that I realize now were sadly her mental decline. But it had been a while. She wouldn't let us fly her out here because she was terrified of flying.
Okay. So there were lots of excuses, I would say, as to why I hadn't seen her. And you know how life is, it just time goes, and you're like, whoa, how has it been this long? Yeah. And we had a hard relationship, to be honest.
She couldn't let go of the past. It was always, I should have done this. I wish I had done that. She hated that I didn't become this famous actress that she had aspired for me to be. And sure, I had a little window of time in my life where I aspired to be that as well, but that was long gone.
And Jesus had done this radical thing in our lives and turned my life. You know, focused elsewhere, and she couldn't accept that as reality. And that was really hard for me. And so I think we just were always butting heads and And our relationship was restrained.
So was your was your mom not a believer? She, yeah, no, she's totally a believer. She was sold out for Jesus, telling everybody about Jesus.
Okay. I would Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I was wondering with what you were saying with when your life took a change, if maybe she wasn't a believer at that point, because she. did but she didn't embrace that or it just took time for her to embrace the fact that your life was gonna change?
Somehow, my mom. For whatever reason, became very focused on becoming famous. And I think because she struggled financially almost her entire life, that in her eyes, if we could just pursue what we had these talents for, singing and dancing and acting, like, then we can make a ton of money and then we'd be okay. Like in her mind, it was like that was success, you know, this worldly success is the vision that she had. for us and it didn't pan out that way.
So yeah. As a daughter, who then radically had this change in her. Like, I moved out to California to pursue acting, and instead, Jesus led me back to him. And I'm like, looking back, going, that's. That's what every mother would want for her child, right?
Right, right. Di did you did you feel to some extent, Vanessa, like like you had let her down? By by not Person acting. 100%, I know I did. I know I did.
Because in her eyes, that was that was it. That was what we should do because then life will be better. And, you know, and again, I think it's just the financial. Aspect that I think was so alluring to her. And yet, I would try to point out all, especially once I became a believer, I was like, I told my mom all the time, like, do you see the compromise I would have to make as a Christian?
I mean, I was on set all the time as, you know, doing extra work and stand-in work and stuff back in California. And I mean, what I was surrounded by, I immediately, when I rededicated my life to the Lord, I did not want that for my life. And I realize there's an amazing side to that industry, and there's a lot of people producing incredible work now that is faith-based. I just had God saying, Nope, I want you to go this way. And I was like, Okay.
I think that's where I want to go. Yeah. So, when you look back on some of these things that you just mentioned, how long do you think in your own, you know, your daughter's heart? How long do you actually think that her dementia had been progressing? Oh, I think I think there were so many contributing factors.
Um, especially health-wise, when you look at a lot of the things that affect the brain, even oral hygiene, like I've learned, is so important, right? I mean, look at our mouth, it's so close to our brain. It's important that there are certain things that you should take care of to ensure. Health, optimal health. And so I look back, looking back, and even just with her actions and things, I think it was definitely probably.
10 plus years of a slow decline, but it has happened rapidly in the last three years. since we got the diagnosis.
So I know in following your account that you are you're very health conscious and you're you're what many of us would consider a crunchy mama, which I love. Is that something that that your desire to be health conscious, did that grow after learning more about dementia, or was that already in place with you? It was already in place. I think I definitely have a A different focus now. I think this is something that, you know.
I don't know that I was thinking about cognitive health as much as I do now.
So, absolutely, I'm focused on it in a way that is very personal because of watching her. Her decline. What is something that you wish that the church understood more about Alzheimer's or dementia? I mean, to be honest, our church, our, and I say our church as in big picture body of Christ, right? Not necessarily the church I was at at the time, but at the same time, they have absolutely supported us so beautifully.
Big church, body of Christ. Like when I went back to California to get my mom.
Some of those people rallied around me so fast. I'm talking. do about her hoarding and things that had happened over the years. I had No idea how bad it was until I stepped foot in that apartment and I was wrecked. And to have people come alongside of me and do the dirty work, like not just the cleaning of the toilets, I'm talking.
Okay. really dirty work that, um, was obviously emotionally hard but physically I I And we were going through actually an adoption at the time that ended up falling through. And so I had so much already on my shoulders that felt so heavy. But people rallied around us and they did anything they could. I mean, even just taking care of my kids back home when I came out.
I think it's just a matter of, like, in any type of suffering, don't ask people, what can I do? Right. How can I support you?
Sometimes that's necessary. Like, sometimes you do need to know practically, like, could, you know, whatever. But I say you just think of the things that need to be done and do it. Yep. Just do it.
Prayer is powerful, more powerful than anything, of course. But sometimes, You know, we require action in the suffering and walking alongside of someone and really saying, like, you're not going to do this on your own. means everything yeah Did you did you move your mom to Tennessee? Is that where she is currently? Near you?
Yeah. I immediately, in fact, when I knew that she would get on a plane so easily, like that weekend, when I went there to go see what was going on, they had her in a 72-hour hold, actually, because they knew they couldn't send her back home, which was perfect. And I had no idea I was going to be able to get her on a plane because, again, she was terrified of flying. Yeah. For her whole life.
And so she kept pointing at airplanes like a child and kept like looking and going, Oh, look, look, look. And was so excited like a child. I said, Mom, do you want to go in one of those with me? Would you want to go see your grandkids? And she was like, Yes.
And I remember just being like, Oh my goodness, we're doing this. We're texting my husband and being like, I'm bringing my mom home. I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm bringing her home. And it was, he, of course, was like, where? Where are we?
What are we doing with her?
So ill-equipped. But God like. I mean, worked it out every detail. What a neat way that he provided that moment for you to get her close by and to care for her. And when we come back from the break, we're going to talk about how you combat the fears for the future, for not only your mom's future, but for your own.
You know, that is very strongly associated. For the children of parents that have Alzheimer's or dementia, is the fears that they face.
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I'm joined today with Vanessa, and we are talking about the challenges and the hope that there is to be found when you are facing the difficult diagnosis of dementia or Alzheimer's. And Vanessa, you are very courageously sharing with us about your mom and what you're walking through with her diagnosis of Alzheimer's. Was she diagnosed with Alzheimer's or dementia? Both. Both.
It actually A long list of different things. They added schizophrenia in there. And I mean, I honestly questioned a little bit of the diagnosis. But at the same time, I didn't feel like we needed to dig deeper. I felt like we knew the general idea of what was happening with her body.
And so, you know, we knew how to care for her from there. How long was it after did she get diagnosed in California or was it after you brought her back to Tennessee? The official diagnosis happened here. Yeah, in Tennessee.
So, how long after you brought her home to Tennessee did she receive her diagnosis? Oh, it was in within like the first week. We had a doctor go out and Do a full examination and testing and that to see where she was at. And then from there, he would give me updates along the way because there's a number that they. Assign to you, like, oh, you're a 5.6, and you know, and then as the decline, that number, of course, goes down, and we've seen that.
Kind of Change rapidly.
So the number is kind of associated with where your cognitive abilities are. And the higher the number, the more cognitive you are? Yeah. Okay. Okay.
So, with that, what are some of the fears that you have had to combat? for your mom and for yourself. Honestly, I find A lot of peace knowing that she is in such a better place than what. Where she was at on her own, you know, and friends thankfully have reminded me over and over again: like Vanessa, she's has a clean bed to live in, she's being taken care of, her laundry is being done, she's being fed. You know, she's actually gained a lot of weight living there, and of course, it's because she's sedentary, but also I don't think she was eating well at all for a long time.
And I used to, you know, we used to send her groceries and things like that because we knew that she wasn't getting out and really providing for herself for a while. But Again, we had noticed that she had this addiction to sugar, which, again, do a deep dive on dementia and Alzheimer's, and they call it the. Another form of diabetes is what they're calling it these days because Um, there is something connected there, and she was literally. I mean, if you saw her apartment, she had stacks and stacks of pastry containers. That clearly she had eaten, which I look at that going, I don't know how many years that was sitting there, but it was, it was really crazy.
But so she's in a better place and she's being cared for. And so there actually is such a peace knowing that. And I know that. I know that This road is going to be hard, and that she, you know, may not be with us for much longer. But I don't really have any fears for her.
However, Visiting her and my children being a part of this experience has made it very hard because it's definitely instilled fear in them. My 11-year-old, especially, has said numerous times, Mom, is that how you're going to be one day? Is that what's going to happen to you? Are we going to have to do this for you? And I mean, that just wrecks me when I think about that.
Again, another incentive to take care of my health and to improve everywhere I can to ensure that I have the best case scenario. My grandmother, my mom's mom, also died of Alzheimer's. Really? Yes. Yeah, about almost eight years ago.
Wow.
So That's what's very interesting too. And I you know, but I I'm, you know, obviously no stranger to fear, but I'm not going to live in fear. Yeah. Yeah. I refuse to.
Live in fear, that is no way to live, and I won't do it.
So it's just a matter of making the choice to say, Okay, God, like you're bigger than this, and you know, I know that. That could be my future, or it might not be. And I'm going to obviously do what I can in my power for it to not be. But the Lord knows he'll carry us through whatever that looks like. Yeah, yeah.
And when we choose to live in fear, we're choosing to rob today of its joy because we don't know what the future holds. And I think that there are Definitely moments just in our humanity that we fear things, you know. And, but if you can take those thoughts captive, That's what God wants us to do. And He wants us to do that because not only does He want us to act in faith and in trust with Him as a child does with His Father, but He wants to give us that peace that surpasses our understanding. And if we allow our minds to become anxious and focused on all of the what-ifs, we will never live a life of peace because.
First of all, all of the what-ifs that we automatically generate in our minds, and we all do it. There's no possible way for them to all come true, and so we're expending energy. On so many scenarios that will not come true, but all of them are scenarios in which God has not yet given you grace. And so you don't know what God's going to call you to. You know what I mean?
Vanessa, you've been through, and we'll talk about this during the YouTube portion, but You've been through a lot of sorrow. in your life and not not much of it was not anticipated. And so you you did not have the grace of God. To handle any of that before he, in his sovereignty, chose to walk you through it and. Um you know Reflecting on the fact that God does comfort us, that He wants to keep us in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Him.
How do you find comfort in in the unique sorrow of losing your mom with her still being physically here.
Well, again, it's not living in the way that you just described. And I think what helps me focus on that. Mindset is that's how my mom lived. She was always living in fear, always fearful of what could possibly happen, or, you know, and things that never have happened before, but could happen. And, you know, and I think.
I think honestly, you know, we can look at our parents and learn a lot by their shortcomings. And unfortunately, my mom would just hold on tight and just never truly surrender all the things to God. And so I know for me, I go to His Word because His Word is active and alive and it's true. The enemy is going to get in and try to lie to you when you are going through suffering or when you are facing fears of any kind. He is going to make sure that you believe those fears.
And so it's not allowing those voices to creep in and those lies to creep in. It's remembering that our life is but a breath. We're not promised a tomorrow.
So, you know, I'm comforted by that because all I have to worry about is today. And we don't even have to worry about it. It's just like, okay, God. Whatever's happening today, I'm gonna give it to you. I'm gonna surrender that to you.
Carry me, walk me through it. If I can't walk, I hope you're picking me up, which he definitely will do. You know, it And also just remembering that God doesn't bring on these afflictions. Like in Lamentations, it talks about how He doesn't bring those willingly to us, and that He actually is suffering along with us, He grieves with us, like He's truly, you know, walking us through these things that are truly not meant. To happen, right, right, but we've been in this imperfect world, and so you know, he does promise he'll carry us through it, and um.
Yeah, I think it's remembering too that He's refining us through it. He's preparing us for what's going to happen next. Because, again, we're promised suffering. We're promised it's going to happen, right? Like on this earth.
And so it's remembering that, okay, what's happening now with my mom, he's going to use it. And he already is. I've already seen that. And I love that, I love it when he does give us a glimpse of the fruit. Here on earth, because you know, it's not promised either that we'll actually see the fruit of our suffering or like what.
He's doing through us. But yeah, he's refining us and he is preparing us for What may come next, or how we can be there for someone else. Like you were talking about, like, how is the church going to support people through this?
Well, hopefully, I'll be a part of that for someone else, right? When they're going through it. Yeah. Have you found with all of the different trials that you've gone through? Because you've gone through a pretty vast array.
Like, I'd say they're all pretty varied from each other. And so you have a pretty well-rounded acquaintance with Greek. Would you say that that. has helped you Like how to equip you to step into the suffering of other people. Oh, absolutely.
And I think because God did give me this organically grown platform on social media, and I I am a very, I think the way I've learned a process is just to talk about it. And sometimes it's to my phone on a story and sending it off to social media and being like, I don't know who this is for, but I'm gonna just put it out there and see if this could help someone else today. Thankfully, I have seen the responses from that of that willingness to just be vulnerable and put it out there. Of course, that's actually hurt us in a lot of ways too, sometimes, because people will use that against you, especially when you're putting yourself publicly out there. That can get kind of ugly.
But again, I'm choosing to say, okay, God, but still, you are going to use this. And I mean, I can only hope that I Would be able to take this suffering and use it for good in some way.
So, scripture tells us that we need to always be ready to give a defense for the hope of the gospel, the hope that is within us. And you're talking about social media and we all know that people can be Real mean on social media, right?
So have you encountered situations where people say things like, you know, a real a God that's powerful or a God that's loving would never allow these things to come in your life? Have you encountered any of that? Shockingly, I haven't. Not that specifically. I think people are thinking it, though.
Yeah. You know, I don't know if they're going to say it to me. I mean, people will say things to me that are shocking, but. I haven't had anyone say that. And maybe it's because I'm reminding people over and over again that this is not from God.
Yeah. You know, like God, God didn't say, oh, let's create disease. Like, no, I mean, he doesn't, none of these sufferings are from him.
So, I'm not blaming him for it. And I think that's the sad thing in life: so many times when bad things happen. People are really quick to blame God as if he's done this to them. And it's like, we've got to have a bigger picture here. You know, the bigger picture is that.
We have a hope and a future, and this life is going to be just a little tiny breath, and then that's forever. And we have that to look forward, and it's been defeated already, and it's already ours. You know, that's what I live for. And so maybe it's just like. the fact that I focus on the eternal glory that awaits us, that hope that I think we have to cling to when we're on this earth, because what's the alternative?
You know, I think it's important to remind ourselves and the listeners that. It is true that God, God says in his word that he is not. His desire is not to afflict us. He does not purpose that man should suffer. But we see in stories like Job, where we have this really unique.
Removal of the veil, per se, to see how things go, that nothing happens outside of God's sovereignty. And so we have to remember the entirety of God's character. We cannot separate it. We can't say, well, God was sovereign here, and God was loving here, and God was good here. You know, sometimes I think when people talk about, oh God, God was so gracious or God was so good because he answered such and such a prayer.
Oftentimes in my mind, I think, would he not have been good? If you didn't answer that the way that you wanted. And the reality is, we as believers, we need to constantly be weaving this truthful picture of who our God is and who he is in his entirety. And so, yes, we do not have this far-removed God who's in the sky just saying, I'm going to lightning zap that person, see how they do, just so I can get a laugh out of it. It's not like that he is not removed from us, he does not delight in our sufferings.
But as you mentioned earlier, Vanessa, he does use them to refine us, he uses them to shape our character. And Before we wrap up this one, this episode, first of all, I want to tell you that if you are listening to this on the radio, we have a podcast that drops on Tuesdays, and we also have a YouTube channel called Hope in the Morning Backstage. And in those two platforms, you'll see a continuation of this episode and many other episodes. And we have a lot more to talk about because, again, as I've hinted at, Vanessa is no stranger to sorrow. And so she is living what she's preaching.
She's not just, these are not empty words on her behalf. But Vanessa, to wrap us up for the radio portion, can you tell us how the Lord in his sovereignty as he has allowed this trial with your mom. How has he used this trial to shape your character?
Well, I think I think because this has highlighted so much of who God is, you know, just knowing that He meets us in our pain, He meets us in our sorrows and sufferings. Um, I think many times I've thought of his sufferings when he was on this earth. And And How he was able to walk through those and still Have hope himself. I think that it's just taught me to, for one, lean more on him, not this world, not man. You know, my husband is a rock, and I can lean on him all day long, and he will.
He is everything that I need on this earth, that's for sure, as a partner in life, but he's not going to be able to meet. every single need in terms of, you know, those those moments where it's lonely and hard. And you know, maybe husbands are not going to mourn the way that you do. And so, or maybe you're just alone that day and you're having a hard time.
Something triggered you and and You're struggling, just knowing that he is right there, knowing that, um, That I am who I am because of what I've been through in life. And I know that we'll talk more about that, but you know, I just think about my own father's shortcomings and. And the things that I saw that he missed out on because of his choices in life and I don't want that. You know, I want more for my life and for my family. And so.
I just want to be more like Christ. And And I know that that's the only thing I can do: try to keep walking through this life and cling to him in it.
Well, and I think that that's the takeaway for today's message is just in everything that you walk to, if you cling to Christ, you will find him faithful.
So as you were kind of starting to get into Some of the the earlier trials that you went through in your life with your dad. Um, can you tell us kind of what some of those trials were and how that affected you as you were growing up?
So, my dad was in Vietnam. And I say that almost a little bit to place blame on kind of how he turned out the way he did. But, you know, he would tell us stories of coming back and being spit on by. Fellow Americans, and just the way he was treated. And he was a teenager.
He was so young in the Navy and saw things that. You know, no man should ever see. And that definitely set him on a path that was just destructive. And unfortunately, drug use was a large part of, you know, his life. He is no longer with us.
He passed away in 2009, but. He was in and out of jail. He definitely. Was not the father that you would hope a father to be in many ways. But my mom couldn't let go of us having a father.
And I think she just kept hoping he would make things right. And if you know an addict at all, you know, things will be good for a minute sometimes. Maybe they'll go to rehab or maybe they'll get a job and get a place and things seem stable. And then sometimes it can fall apart again. And sometimes that cycle can just be vicious.
And that's how it was for. 11 years of my life. And then I was actually. 11 and I told my mom that we could do things without him. I remember we had police officers surrounding our house the one time because he had done something and they were looking for him.
And I had a little sister who was two, and I was home alone. And that was like totally traumatic for a kid. And I remember I had to tell my mom that. That we can do it on our own. We don't need him.
And that's when she kind of felt that release. She told me later. Yeah. actually divorce him and Start a life. As a single mom.
I had a really strained relationship with my dad over those years. Obviously, he was literally in jail. I was getting letters from him in jail sometimes, but how was a kid to reply? I remember feeling guilty because I didn't respond to his letters in jail. And I look back, going, Oh my gosh.
Uh But, you know, my mom did the best she could. But, you know, my dad was in and out. And when things were good, we lived in Florida where he was from. And then when things were bad again, we'd move back to Canada where my mom was from. And we moved back and forth, back and forth.
And, um, Yeah. We just stayed in Canada, I guess. Actually, it was after I rededicated my life to the Lord that I was able to look at him as. A fellow human that made a lot of mistakes and was suffering because of it, natural consequences, and realized that he missed out because of those consequences. On everything he could have had in actually being a part of his children's lives and actually raising us and providing for us, he missed out.
And he missed out on God's best for his life. Unfortunately. And I think it was then that I was able to say, even though I knew I wasn't going to get from him what I would have wanted, like an apology. Recognizing his faults or anything, I wasn't going to get that from him. But I did realize that I could talk to God directly and forgive him.
Through my relationship with God, if that makes sense. Yeah. When you were younger, I've heard before where people say that children. Learn a lot of who they think God is based on their father. And so I'm curious: did you struggle at all with thinking when you were younger, thinking that God would be trustworthy or thinking that God would be faithful or that God loved you unconditionally, were any of those struggles for you when you were younger, before you rededicated your life, or even after?
I honestly did not equate my dad and God as like A similar relationship. I didn't. I don't know. Maybe God just protected me in that way. But I didn't, and maybe also it helped that I did have one family in particular in our lives since I was really young.
Who had a really good example for me to witness of a marriage and of a father and a mother and a whole family that wasn't perfect, still wasn't perfect, because no family is.
However, it was a really good example for me. And I look back at that and I know that that really helped me to see. What a father should look like.
So I knew the difference, but I definitely did not relate the two. My dad and God. No, my dad had nothing on God.
Well, I think more what that's saying is like subliminally, there are often times where maybe some of the insecurities that we carry as children with a parent, especially a father, that that can make it harder for us to really come to terms with some true attributes of who God is. Because that's just, you know, our fathers are supposed to be our protectors, our providers, our, you know, many of the things they're supposed to emulate Christ in our lives. That's how they're instructed to be as parents. With with your dad, did you find that You were able to forgive him easily after you had rededicated your life, or did that take a lot of time? It wasn't easy.
Um. No. It definitely took time. And I think even after, like, once he had passed away, I think I was still reconciling. Because, you know, you have to come to terms.
With your reality, yeah, you know, like I think as a little girl, when you don't have your dad in your life, you're dreaming and hoping though that one day you will, yeah, and you picture what that could be like, and you just hope for change, and you're probably a little jealous of other people's dads. Like, again, my girlfriend, who's still like a best friend of mine to this day, you know, I was just like, when she would get mad about her dad, and if she would ever say anything negative about her dad, I was like offended for him. Like, how dare you be mad at your daddy? He is perfect. Really, I would I would it would upset me if someone was upset with their dad or or would talk poorly to their dad, you know, or was disrespectful to them.
I just thought. I don't know how you could be like that. Your dad is amazing. Did you feel like they weren't appreciating what they had? Yeah.
And they didn't sometimes, just like I didn't appreciate my mom sometimes, you know. I mean, we were all kids and we all, you know, I absolutely. felt that way. Yeah. It's interesting.
My husband and I were actually just talking this week about how For all of us, really, but you really see it prevalently in children that it's almost like the more you have, or the better you have it. the less you realize how good you have it. You know, and it's like the people that have really suffered tend to be, or who have the least of things, tend to be the most appreciative for what they have. And that's a tricky thing as parents, because you really want to teach your children to be thankful for everything. They have a heart of gratitude, a heart of humility.
But we also, as parents, just naturally, even the Bible says, like, we want to give our children good things. And so we don't want to hold back any blessing, any good thing, but we desire for our children to have a thankful heart. And it's the same with the Lord. You know, the Lord desires for us to praise Him when good things are coming our way. And yet, you look at even the testimonies that we share here on Hope in the Morning.
Oftentimes, our praise is born from the deepest sorrow. When the Lord chooses to allow things to be removed from us, and we come to the end of ourselves and we say, Lord, Naked I came and naked I will return. But I will praise you. Those are the moments when our hearts are stripped down to nothing, when we realize, Lord. I need nothing.
Other than you, You, you are, he is completely what satisfies our souls, and he's it. He's the only thing that satisfies our souls. And sometimes it takes us having nothing. to realize that and You know, continuing on, not only did you did you really in all senses, like, you did kind of suffer the loss of a father. in in your childhood a unique loss.
But you also, as you went on to become a redeemed mother and wife, you have beautiful children, but you have one child who is no longer in your arms. Can you tell us about her? Um Yeah, 19 months ago.
Sorry, I'm That is okay. Um 19 months ago, tomorrow. My baby girl was born. And she was already with Jesus. And um.
I think what was so devastating about that That you sort of touched on earlier is that. It was a complete blindside. We had no idea anything was wrong. And nothing was wrong. We had a beautiful pregnancy, a beautiful, um, Just everything looked perfect.
She looked perfect just a few days prior on an ultrasound, and unfortunately, The team that was caring for us, a midwife team, did not uphold the standard of care and they did not monitor her or myself actually properly. And so. While she was clearly under distress, they weren't monitoring well enough to know that. And so, um I think the hardest part about that is knowing that different decisions should have been made, and those very well. Could have saved her life.
How do you bring that kind of heartache. To the Lord, where you think in your motherly heart, you think, man, this is not how it was supposed to be. How do you bring that to the Lord? In a really raw and kind of ugly way sometimes. Um Because again, That's not from him, right?
You know, there's sin, and there's, you know, I think there was a lot of pride and arrogance involved, and I think that, um, You know, What happened happened because, you know, yes, God allowed it, but, um, I think it's because, you know, man sometimes feels like they are bigger than God and they can make decisions that are Negligent. And so that doesn't come from him. But yeah, I go to him and I say, I don't understand this, and I don't like it, and I don't want it. And I never would have chosen it. And I really wish this could be a different story.
But again, I've thankfully have already been able to see.
Some really, really amazing, eternal ways that he's used it, where people have come to know him, my own daughter, my own mother in law, in such a real way. Because when you are standing over When you're standing over your daughter. And her little body is there. All you can do is think of heaven. You know, and you want to shake.
I literally actually practically shook. Our oldest, who actually we adopted when she was 18, she's 27 now. I think I practically shook her in that moment saying like, That's how close we are to heaven. You know, like the veil is right there. You know, like, what are we living for?
Yeah. What are we living for? And if I can't go on to just point people to Jesus after such a horrific. detrimental. unspeakable loss then like Why am I here?
You know, and I see some people are not able to do that. And that terrifies me. I keep saying to the Lord, like, Oh, I don't want like I'm just clinging to him because I don't ever want to fall into the trap that the enemy would more than. Love, right? It is to see us not relying on the Lord and giving up on our faith and saying, Well, who are you?
and being angry at God and all that. I see it so differently. You know, I see it as being like the. biggest reminder we could possibly have of how We are not promised it tomorrow. What are we living for?
Yeah. You know, moments like that, it's where we have. Two paths, and it's like it can lead to despair or despa or dependence. And it doesn't mean that dependence on the Lord doesn't look like grief. It was your daughter and I mean, I've seen her, she's beautiful.
And that's something that you will carry that sorrow forever because you loved her and you longed to care for her all the days of her life. anticipating and hoping that there would be many. days of her life that she would outlive you. And It's not the way. That God intended things to be.
This is a part of the fall. And so when When Scripture says that we do not grieve as those who have no hope. I just want to make this so clear to those that are listening. It does not say. We don't grieve.
because we have hope. It says we do not grieve as those who have no hope. We do grieve, and And there is nothing ungodly. About grief. There is nothing ungodly about tears or our sorrow, or even feeling like, man, this is just not the way it's supposed to be because it's not.
This is not the way that God intended. This is not the way that it will ultimately be. That's why Christ came, so that he could redeem that, that he could make us right with the Father again, that we would have a way to one day. Be right with God. to one day not have sin and the consequence of sin, which is death for every one of us.
Right. But you love your baby. And that is a godly thing. That's what God wants a mother to love her child, and you do. And I think one of the things, Vanessa, as I have followed your account, that I think is A beautiful thing about you is, I think that you find really beautiful, meaning ways, meaningful ways to honor her.
Can I say her name? Yeah, of course. And I love seeing all the things you do from from the tree that you have that represents her and how you tend to that to tending to her burial site to just saying her name and showing her little picture and You know, the Lord, um The Lord did give you a sweet little blessing in a precious little boy. following that. But what would you want our listeners to understand about the continuation of grief even when you have gone on to have another child or children.
Well, it certainly will never go away. Right. I I think, um You know, when you go through something. Maybe it's a car accident or something like that that's you know it's Happened for a moment, and then you heal from it physically. And then there could be some trauma still, maybe, when you get in the car again or whatever.
But I feel like that's something that, you know, it eventually goes away. You don't think about it so much anymore. You kind of get over it, right? There's not really an emotional component either so much, or maybe there can be, but. With this, it is.
It's like that grief is this love that has to go somewhere that you will always have for that person. There's a lot of things that will trigger that grief. Of course, you know, I feel like everywhere I look, there's something that reminds me of her, including my own children. That are here. But I just think it's like It's constant grace.
It's constant, like. allowing yourself to feel all the feelings. Even the anger, because trust me, because of the circumstances with her death, I have a lot of anger that I'm. literally having to give to him every single day. Um And you know, I just think that That hope that we have.
I also think that For me, it's kind of lit this fire in me. To defeat the enemy while I'm on this earth, right? Because he's like, he's doing stuff, right? While he's on this earth, he's like the prince of the world, right? And so looking to devour.
When he's like And I literally remember feeling the day we buried her. Man, God gave me, talk about carrying you. I don't know how I was physically walking because of the birth being as difficult as it was and everything. I mean, and then of course you're going and going, you're not resting like you normally do postpartum. You're you're planning for a funeral.
You're tending to your children. You're not laying in bed with your baby. And so. I did not rest properly.
So, physically, I was not okay. And the way he held me and the way he gave me this strength, like, I didn't even plan to speak. And I remember I was getting my hair done. My girlfriend was there doing my hair. For this service, and I was like, Someone give me my laptop.
Someone give me a laptop. And I just knew that God was going to give me something to say. And I just started typing it out. I have no clue how I was possibly able to function. And think about even the songs we were going to sing to worship him that day.
But I did. I thought of. Literally, in his strength, he thought of things that I look back going, I don't even remember being there, but somehow. I wrote a speech and somehow I said that whole speech in front of all these people. And, but I think there was just this like fire that was ignited of like, no, Satan, you do not get to win here.
You do not get. Any bit of my family. You do not get to come into my home. You do not get to cause any fears or, you know, all of the things that I know that this could have done to my children. I started praying very specifically against that.
But I think that grief should lead you to prayer every time you feel it. Oh, I love I love that. That's a great phrase, because you're absolutely right. And I think sometimes when we are grieving, we feel alone in it. We feel like no one else is going to understand what I'm going through right now.
And so, when we're reminded that God does, God created you, He knows your innermost being. You know, Psalm 139 talks about how you knit me together in my mother's womb and you. He saw your unformed substances. He knew. the length of your days when as yet there was one.
You know, he knew. He knew Autumn. He knew Autumn. He saw every movement of Autumn in the womb, and he loved her. Deeply.
He created her intricately. He created her perfectly. And so he understands your sorrow. He understands when you come before him and you have nothing but tears. And sometimes that's what grief looks like, is we don't even have the words.
But you don't need to. The Lord knows. The Lord knows your mind. The Lord knows your heart. He knit you together.
He formed you. And so when you feel like you are alone, That's another thing that Satan wants you to feel. He wants you to feel isolated. He wants you to feel, you know, the Bible calls him the accuser. He wants us to feel like Dial doesn't care.
God's not going to listen to you. Why would he care about that? You know, he doesn't want to hear you whine or complain, or that's what he's going to tempt us to say. Oh, that was loud. But instead he God bids us come.
You know, when Christ died and that veil was torn, literally from top to bottom, symbolizing that God meets us. We don't go grappling to him and say, Oh, I hope he hears us, like those that worship false gods, saying, I'm going to pray this certain way or this certain amount because, man, I just hope he hears us. We have sure. A sure and steady promise that he does. He hears us when we pray and he cares.
And so, those that are listening, especially those mamas like going through what you've gone through. What a heartbreak. when you lose a child. I don't know that there is a deeper sorrow. Because Autumn was literally a part of you.
You know, and you you felt her every movement. In your womb you you knew her. More than anybody else, you were probably the one that kind of kind of knew her personality. Just from her taking up residence in you. You know, what a beautiful thing the Lord does with mamas and babies.
What are what are some ways that We, we women can come alongside other women? What are ways that comforted you. in the weeks, months. even now the nearly 19 months. How can people Comfort in the first days and continue to be a comfort and an encouragement.
years to come. I think it takes a lot less than what people think. You know, I think um I know that I definitely did not know how to comfort somebody the way that I understand it now, having gone through it. Right. I don't know.
I was never one of those people's people to bring meals to someone. You know, like, I'm not. Cooking's not my game. I'll make you some bread, but. Um Which sourdough bread is, you know, that's a great thing to do.
Yes, it is. And so, I honestly always struggled with this myself. And I'm so grateful now to have experienced the receiving end of going through something so hard with my mom and now with Autumn, because the way people, the church, have come alongside of us has been incredible. For one, I would encourage anyone who has gone through something like this to find someone else who has also gone through it. And now, sometimes that can be toxic because some people are not going to maybe handle it in the healthiest of ways.
So, maybe find someone who truly is in a healthy place, still grieving, all of that. That's still, you know, that's fine. No one's going to be done with their grief, as I said, but. It has been so helpful to connect with other lost moms because you can say the things that you feel like you couldn't say to someone else. Like I've literally I literally told someone the other day, which some of y'all that are listening may say, oh my gosh, you're nuts.
But listen, You say crazy things when you've gone through something like this, okay? Like, where I. I literally said, like, yeah, I just Googled the other day how to move. My daughter, where she's buried. I regret.
I'm kind of like, I wish she was buried right here on my property. I thought before losing someone, I was like, even for myself, I always thought, I don't care where my body is, I'm with Jesus, who cares? Let me tell you, that changes when you lose a child. Everyone's different, right? And what you would want or desire.
But for me, I don't know, like tending to where she's buried is very special now. And Again, probably because I don't have her to tend to.
So, yes, having autumn's garden on our property and having the tree, like all those things. But we have people that came alongside of us and made that happen. Like, so we have autumn's garden. I had friends the first year, last year, who literally started all the plants for me in their own greenhouses, started all the flowers. They knew I wanted flowers.
I hated cut flowers before I lost a child. I thought that was a waste of money. I was like, why would you do that? They're just going to die in a few days. I had girlfriends who actually bought me.
A bouquet that looked the exact same. On the 13th of every month for the first year. That was so special to me. Like it meant More than what you would ever imagine, especially me prior, because again, I always thought cut flowers are a waste of money. But seeing those and they represented her, like those color of roses, everything about it, you know, I think a big practical thing to do for people.
And again, this could be, this is like when we had our adoption, our failed adoption, this was really important to us, was people doing the practical things. I remember looking out the window. In like The couple days after losing her, and people were skimming the bottom of my pool. People were installing the windows that Phil hadn't had time because we were under renovation, like we are with every baby that we have for some reason. We renovate our house.
We had, and I remember saying to Phil, I need light, I need those windows. And he made a couple Calls and like the people rallied to get those windows installed. I mean, practical things: doing my dishes, sending someone to clean my home, taking care of the kids and bringing them joy, bringing a ton, they brought tons of like activities. For the girls, you know, to just have their minds. And now, of course, all of those things mean so much to us because.
Those crafts they made during that time are just special to us now because it was during a time of deep mourning, but it brought us joy in those days. Yeah. It was right before Christmas.
So. You know, I didn't have that planned because if you know me, you know that I buy Christmas presents a few days beforehand.
So Christmas was not prepared. And let me tell you, there were so many presents under the tree, even though I was one of those that was like, three, a kid is fine. No, there was a ton. And I am like, I look back though, and I mean, it was. The biggest blessing that people just said, okay, we're going to make Christmas happen.
And lastly, I will just say. one of the biggest, hugest blessings that people did. Because they showed up to our front lawn. And they worshiped. No.
You know, they just brought some candles and Someone I think had a guitar. And we worshiped. You know, and I just remember being like. This is all I want to do for the rest of my life is worship him. Yeah.
It reminds me of Moses and Aaron, and it's like you are Moses, and they come and they uplift your heavy hands. Because they say We will come and help you worship him. When you're too weak. Yeah. Yeah.
Can I was. I didn't think I could raise a hand, but I did. They even said, You don't have to come outside. You don't have to come outside. Like, they didn't want to put any pressure on me.
And I was like, oh my gosh, all I want to do is worship right now. It's all I have, right? And we literally sang, all that I have is a hallelujah, is what we sang. And I just remember feeling like, yep. That's all I have right now, Lord.
Oh, you know, I mean, that's that. That can't come from anything but the Lord. You know, when scripture talks about a peace that surpasses understanding, that's what that is. You know, there are Man, when unbelievers go through a heartache like that, and this, I'm telling you, Vanessa, this is one of the reasons why the book, Hope in the Morning. had to be written because I Had opportunities to meet moms like you.
And I had opportunities to, through my gift giving service, come into contact with moms who didn't know the Lord. And right. Oh my goodness, it is the most stark difference you could ever see. It is the difference between despair and dependence. And it's the difference between saying, I don't want to go forward in life, and saying, I will go forward and I will praise you.
And that does not negate your grief. That does not mean that you cannot be worshiping him with uplifted hands and tears streaming down your face. That's okay. Both are acts of worship. Yeah.
He can do mighty things. And Vanessa, one of the things that I have really. Admired about you as I have followed you and gotten to know you a little bit just through social media is that you are a very open person. You're just very. Transparent, what you see is what you get, which I love.
But you you have You just have this very authentic Joy, that it's just this is what it is, and I'm going to show you the good, the bad, the ugly, and the hope that I have. And that's exactly what we are instructed to do, but it's not something we can do in our own strength. You know, that's one of the things that I think Is actually a gift in our grief, is the fact that. When you've been through a major trial, I actually think you're less likely to doubt your salvation. And I think that That struggling with assurance of salvation is something that a lot of people do, they grapple with from time to time throughout their life.
But when the Lord said in his sovereignty allows a really life altering tragedy. And you see?
Okay, this is how I responded to this tragedy, not in my own strength. but in the strength of the Lord, in the strength of the Holy Spirit that abides in me. There is like a settling. Of the soul that comes that, like, what a gift of the Lord, what a sweet gift of the Lord. you know, those that want to continue sharing your journey which i will tell you that not only will you want to hear her Talk more about her sweet autumn, but you're going to want to see her chunky little Winston because he.
Go there just for that. He's so cute. And so you have four children here on earth with you now, right? Three daughters and the son. Is that correct?
Four daughters and a son. Four daughters. Because we have our oldest tech, who we adopted at 18.
Okay. So she doesn't live in our home.
So a lot of times people. If they haven't been following for long, they won't remember her because, of course, we only see her when we can see her because she's a busy, busy girl out in California. But yeah, so my oldest is Tech, and then we have the other three girls, and then little Winston, who just turned six months.
Well, I love all of the content that you share, and that you're very genuine in your hope. And that's what we want people to see. We want people to be able to see. As I put it, the authenticity of your grief so that they can see the authenticity of your hope. And that is, grief is not different just because you're a believer.
The loss of a child. is the same pain. whether you're a believer or not, but the difference is the hope. The difference is What do you have to cling to? And man, you.
You have Autumn's creator. Cling to. You have the hope that you will see her again, that she is in perfect peace, worshiping at the throne of God, and that you will be reunited with her. And so, in that instance, you know, let us encourage one another that this life is but a fleeting vapor, that soon we will be at the throne of God, we will worship and we will be restored to him. What a beautiful hope we have.
Vanessa, where can people find you so that they can follow you?
So on Instagram, I am thefranklinmama, m-a-m-a. And I do have my account private right now because as I mentioned earlier, There's definitely been a little bit of just some things that I thought, you know what, I'm gonna put up some guardrails and protect my family a little bit more.
So I'm not public anymore, but please say hello. Message me. I literally never miss a DM.
So message me and say hello, introduce yourself. Let me know that you found me through this podcast. And I would love for you to follow our family and, of course, to connect with you personally. Vanessa, thank you so much for opening up about all the different things that the Lord has called you to and how you have faithfully walked through those and surrendered them to Him and Been a testimony, a walking testimony of hope and of continuous joy.
So it was really an honor to have you on the show told me so. Thank you so much. Hope in the Morning is a non-profit ministry that seeks to encourage the hurting. equip those who walk beside them, and evangelize the lost with the hope of Jesus Christ. to partner with our ministry or to make a donation in your loved one's honor.
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