Welcome to Hope in the Morning. turning tragedies and tears into testimonies of hope. Elizabeth Elliott once said, The deepest things that I have learned in my own life have come from the deepest suffering. And out of the deepest waters and the hottest fires have come the deepest things that I know about God.
So I have to ask you today: do you think that there is purpose in your suffering? Joining us today. To talk about this important topic is Twin City Bible Church elder Mike Riles. Mike, I appreciate you joining us today. Thanks for having me.
Jump right in and just say that I think that you experienced something that many of us who lived through the epidemic of 2020 have experienced, but you experienced it on a different level than many of us did. Can you tell us a little bit about your own story with suffering? Yeah, it was an interesting thing. At the time, and still, I'm a letter carrier, U.S. Postal Service, and driving to work was kind of like an apocalyptic movie or something.
You don't see anybody, and it's just really weird. But it took me over a year once to. Coronavirus came around to actually get sick with it in August of 21. And it hit me pretty hard, uh basically from the time that I had the first cough. to the time I had 103 fever, 103.5, that lasted 10 days.
It took about eight hours. First symptom to Full blown. craziness. And it was uh very difficult, um I was struggling for several days and on the seventh day I was going up to bed and we're monitoring my oxygen the whole time and finally I fell below 90. Which is a good friend of mine, a doctor friend of mine told me is what you gotta watch out for.
And so I went all the way down to 86, and I wasn't coming back up. Here we are. My son is driving me to the hospital because my wife also has COVID. She's really sick, but not like me. And um On the way, I'm having to have this just strange conversation with my son that I wouldn't really think of, but I'm telling him where the life insurance policy is on the computer, where the passwords are, all these things, knowing that, you know, it's possible I won't be coming home.
Yeah. Um so when I get to the hospital, um they check me again. Oxygen level was now at 76. And anything below, I think, 80, I was told your body starts slowly shutting organs down. Fortunately, I responded quickly to the oxygen they gave me at the time and came back up, and so that was how that went.
How were you feeling in those moments that you saw your oxygen continuing to decline and you're having that? Conversation with your son, did you have any fear in that moment? Did you feel completely at peace? Like, what was going on with you emotionally during that time?
Well, you know, it was, it was. I was so drained from the experience physically and to some degree emotionally that I didn't have a whole lot of feeling at that time. But I did have a sense that this could be it, and I had conflicting emotions about that.
So, with this being the time of COVID, you know, we know that period as being a very isolating period, you know, where we all were on lockdown. And what were the hospitals like? You said it was about a year after COVID first hit. What were the hospitals like at that point?
Well, fortunately for me, the one I went to, I went to Davey, and they were. doing quite well from everything that I've heard from other people who experienced hospitalizations. They they uh they were very They took very good care of me um and the staff was kind and considerate and helpful and it was just all-around good in that sense. Were you able to have any family with you? No.
That was horrible. Um for two weeks they would not allow anybody that I knew. I didn't see a single face. that I that I knew for two weeks before they lifted the quarantine.
So I'm assuming speaking even was difficult t was difficult because your oxygen levels were so low. You know, how did you keep communication with your wife or with your kids during that time to even tell them how you were doing? Did they have to call into the nurse's station to find out how you were doing? No, I had my cell phone.
Okay.
So there was plenty of that, and a lot of it was text because it was just easier. It was really difficult to carry any kind of conversation. Um Verbally.
So with the nurses that came in, Did you were you able to have conversations with them about anything? Interestingly enough, I had this fever, 103.5 for seven days in the hospital. Then the next three days I have that same fever. It took that long to break. The first Sunday after that, I was just so looking forward to being able to live stream our church's service and finally get to worship.
And so I'm starting to watch it and all of a sudden as the music starts to play, I just I lost it. because it just hit me like a ton of bricks that I can't sing. Hmm. I can't praise the Lord. I I may never praise the Lord again with this mouth.
Hmm. And um I broke down in a way that I don't ever remember. Buh just losing it. And right then, uh a male nurse comes in. And you know, he's concerned.
He's like, Can I help you? Do you need a chaplain? Do you need a priest? Whatever? And I'm like, No, I'm no and you know, with only two word sentences or two words at a time with each breath, I you know, told him I was fine, but you know, I just am blown away that I can't praise the Lord with my voice.
And of course that just started a really deep spiritual conversation. And as it turns out, he had not been in church in years. been someone who was faithful to church years ago and uh basically as well as I could I gave him a little gospel uh message and and Challenge him as like, you know, there is no context for Christianity outside of the local church. You can't find that in your Bible.
So right immediately, the first thing that happens when I think I can't praise the Lord with this mouth. In walks. A witnessing opportunity. Yeah. That's what God did.
Wow. And I mean, there's just different ways for us to honor the Lord and honor Him through our suffering. You know, where you used the words that you had at the time, even though the breath in your lungs was a challenge, but the Lord sustained that for His purposes. And you don't always know what God is going to do with that. You may never know exactly what the Lord did with that.
But going back to what you were saying before, I think is so important that so many people. think that It's not that important to be part of a local church, that you know, especially with all the different options we have now with live streaming, different services. And people are so busy that they really don't prioritize it. They don't think that it's that important as long as they're hearing a message and they're in the word. They often want to think that, well, this is just my relationship.
It's my personal relationship with me and the Lord. And there is definitely an aspect of that, but what you're saying is so.
so crucial. And the one of the reasons why the Lord Tells us to be part of a local body is because that is how we serve one another. That's how we practice becoming Christ-like is that we get in there and we know each other's suffering. And just like, you know, you said that the church had served you and your wife Amanda while you were both sick. But if you weren't active members in the church and there consistently, we wouldn't have even known.
I can't even imagine what that would have been like without my church family because it was just, they were precious. Yeah, and you know, I think you had told me before that you're just kind of in a brain fog when you have COVID. And I think, again, it's like many of us at this point, we've experienced some level of COVID. I feel like it's, you know, it's almost become like a cold because we've all caught it to some degree. Again, yours was much worse.
But I think we realize that there are times when we're so weak that we have to depend on other people. We have to depend, whether that is for them making us meals or coming to the hospital and speaking truth over us, reminding you even. Look how the Lord used this, how the Lord allowed you to use your voice to praise Him and.
So so with that um Did you find that there were other things that you really missed in that isolation? Like, what was that like? Yeah, you know, it was very difficult. The brain fog that they talk about with COVID was very real. I had many books brought to me, and I really couldn't, I didn't have any reading comprehension.
So I only got something out of the Bible, which I'd read, and you know, any other books that I had read, I had a couple other books that I'd read a couple of times.
So, without reading comprehension, all I could rely on was just what I remembered when I read these words.
Okay, here's the thoughts behind that. And that was. All I could get out of it. Did you find that any scripture that you had previously memorized, or any hymns maybe, that you had known, did any of those come to the forefront of your mind, or was your mind too? Foggy for that, even?
Not really. It was I didn't have anything specific at the time.
Okay.
So as far as your family not being able to be there, did that ban continue during your entire hospital stay? No, just for two weeks. And then fortunately after that I could have two people at a time. But those those first two weeks were were just awful. And uh the first time I saw a face that I knew from church I I broke down again.
You know. I don't know. I think partly the em the emotional thing of being sick is just something I, you know, haven't experienced before like that. How how long were you in the hospital total? Twenty-eight days.
Twenty-eight days. Yeah. After two weeks. They thought I was on my way out, but I had two pulmonary embolisms that traveled from most likely my legs up into my lungs. Wow.
So I have scarring. in my lungs even now. Wow. I don't have quite the oxygen. Capability I used to have.
Yeah. Did this experience force you to kind of reconcile with your own? Your own human frailty, and just kind of, you know, I know you and Amanda are very healthy people, and so I think sometimes we kind of. depend a little bit on our health. Di was that something that Was new for you to have that stripped away?
Yeah, you know, it's kind of like, you know, when the Israelites would just be, things would be going well. And they would just uh oh Well, not really think about anything. I'm just going to, oh, there's a God I can worship, you know, and then God would send them trouble and... Yeah. repent and then you know either rinse repeat whatever but for for us you know we're healthy people We're not thinking about things.
But the the the advantage of the suffering of that time was It really makes you pray. Yeah. Me personally, I think it's the experience of most believers. When things are going really well, we do not. cozy up to God.
when things go south, We just have a tendency to it sharpens the mind, and if the only good that comes out of it is that we get closer to the Lord.
Okay.
That's a tremendous good in and of itself. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I think when Um When we suffer, it brings us... To our knees. You know, it brings us to a point where we are stripped of everything that we think we.
Hold control of. And the reality is that we hold control of nothing. But Sometimes our suffering can be a great reminder of that. And when we come back, we're going to hear how. His suffering helped him understand more fully what the purpose is in all of our suffering and what God says about that and how God is still good and kind and faithful even in our suffering.
Do you have a heart to comfort the hurting? Do you want to show the world that through Jesus Christ we can have hope in all circumstances?
Well, then we welcome you to visit hopeinthemorning.org and see how you can join us in these ministry endeavors. May you be encouraged by who our God is as you continue this episode of Hope in the Morning. To learn more, visit us at hopeinthemorning.org. Hope in the Morning is a non-profit ministry that seeks to encourage the hurting, equip those who walk beside them, and evangelize the lost with the hope of Jesus Christ. To partner with our ministry or to make a donation in your loved one's honor, please visit hopeinthemorning.org.
Your donation helps keep these stories of hope on the air and helps tangibly meet the needs of the hurdle. Who has known the mind of God? or numbered his own days. Who can question any of his judgments or give counsel to his ways? He formed the beasts of earth and feeds them from his hand.
He told the waters of their boundaries, and he has numbered grains of sand. His mighty voice was all it took To make the moon and stars.
So how can we, merely dust, Think control is ours. Is not He the source of wisdom and the giver of all things? He has intricately painted sunsets and given flight to wings. He formed each man while he was yet hidden in the womb. He alone can give the breath of life and raise the dead up from the tomb.
Who are we to offer anything but praise, and humbly bow before him? submitting to his ways. Romans eleven, verses thirty three through thirty six tells us, O the depth of the riches, both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who became his counselor? For who has first given to him that it would be paid back to him?
For from him And through him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever. Amen.
So, Mike, going back to your story of talking about how you had COVID and your oxygen levels were. dangerously low. We have not numbered our own days. We don't know. You know, we don't know.
Uh-huh. We don't know if today could be the day that we meet the Lord, that we're face to face, and so every chance we get is. Is an opportunity to proclaim his goodness to the land of the living, even in our suffering.
So when when we suffer So often it's easy to think Why? What is the purpose of this? Especially, you know, I know that you are part of the team at our church that goes around and helps. Do some of the counseling for people that are going through hard times. That you, when my dad was dying, you were one of the faithful people that came and you were there.
You know, I mean, we joke, but we joke because after my dad passed away and he was on hospice at our house, you came in your mail carrier uniform, and we were saying we're going to keep the neighbors guessing because now we've brought in the mail service. But you you were compassionate and um But there are those questions. When you face trials, There's so many times where like with my dad, we felt like My dad loved the Lord. My dad was faithfully teaching his word. He was very intricate in sharing the gospel with my children.
And I have one child in particular that really did not, um didn't didn't want to speak openly about her questions. Concerning the Lord to anybody but Papa. And so to us, we looked at that. in our human finite mind and thought, why? Why would God Take him now when he seems to be Being right in the prime of being used.
When he loves the Lord, he wants to share the gospel with everybody he comes into contact with. What is the purpose? of our suffering. When a child is taken from their parents, and when your spouse suddenly gets sick and dies. What is the purpose in our suffering?
You know, it's a really difficult question that we should be able to answer in that God is always doing something to glorify himself. And for us in those situations, it's extremely difficult to see that. Um especially with someone like Robert. Robert could tell someone that they deserve to go to hell and they would actually like him after he said it. Amazing man.
But Um most of the time we don't have cut and dry clear answers for why particular evil comes our way. Um uh just following up on the story earlier, you know, if I had not had that experience with what happened with the nurse that came in at that time, the thought never would have occurred to me with my brain fog. Hey, I I can witness to the rest of these people.
So I wrote up a big thank you note with a gospel included in it, and my wife put together some stuff, a goodie basket for everybody, and we just blessed the whole floor with that. In that case, it's extremely easy. You can see it. Obviously.
Some good came out of that. But Who knows what happened with people who were touched by Robert's death, by the message that was preached at his Service by just the impact he had on people's lives that was shared by so many at the time. There's no way that we could ever know that, but we do know that all things work together for good to those who are called according to His purpose, to those who love the Lord. And it's Romans 8.28. It doesn't say that all things are good.
It just says that all things work together for good. And so oftentimes for us, we have to face the downside of that and deal with it. But at the very least, we are blessed with the ability to really draw near to God. and the the prompting because we don't have any other choice. Yeah.
So Um You know, I think another question that often comes to mind when we suffer is that we know that God is never changing. And with that, When we go through something that feels unbearably hard, sometimes it's hard to reconcile.
Some of God's character traits. You know, God being good, God being merciful, you know. You know, again, just bringing in one of my own recent experiences is um. You know, in my latest miscarriage, that was a hard thing to see God as merciful. And I think that that's something that we understandable.
You know, we think, like with my husband and I, when we found out we were pregnant with that child, These things go through your mind. You think, oh, the Lord is being so merciful. He allowed our last child to die because he wanted this child to be born around my parents' anniversary so that it would be a blessing to my mom around a hard time. And we try and reconcile. Like, that is just part of our humanness.
And so when, when things happen that are completely out of our plan, you know, mind you, as we read in Romans, God's plan is so far above our own. But in our own human mind, It's so easy to think, why is God not showing me mercy? Why is God not hearing my prayers? What do you say, as a counselor, to somebody that is struggling with that, with somebody whose child maybe is going through cancer and they're praying continuously, Lord, please have mercy on my child, please heal my child. And God chooses not to do that.
How do we still trust that there's a purpose in that suffering and that God's character? is still is still fully merciful, fully loving. Um How how do you counsel people in those situations? Yeah, for the most part. You know, it in some ways you can boil it down in the simplicity of Romans 3.26.
You know, in the same event where the greatest evil that was ever perpetrated on anyone, The only innocent man who ever lived was put to death on a cross. A shameful, extremely painful death. But in that verse it says that God is both the just and the justifier. of them who believe and We have Jesus who empathizes with us, and he suffered in a way that. That we can't even imagine.
Not just taking on sin, but the pain. But more than that, he is, um He is there with us. And in all these things, Um we Actually participate in the same type of suffering. We get conformed to the image of Christ when we suffer as Christ suffered. Yeah, I I love that and I I think Um You know, talking back to what you kind of mentioned previously, in I think it's Psalm 116, it talks about because he bends down to listen, I will pray as long as I have breath in my lungs.
you know, you had you had mentioned how Yeah. Prayed to the Lord when you were going through your COVID scare and just not knowing what the Lord. would have in store for you and Um you know, oftentimes when we go through our darkest valleys. He becomes that much more of a bright light to us because we are so longing for the light, we are longing for comfort and. Um How how would you How would you express that to our listeners as far as the comfort that we get through prayer?
Maybe even when we don't know what to say or we feel like I don't have the right words to say. But your heart is so heavy with the grief that the Lord is allowing you to go through, knowing that. He does have a purpose in it, that it is, as you were saying, that it is refining us, making us more like Christ as we suffer. that we are becoming more like him. How How can we find comfort in our prayer life through those immense sufferings?
At the root, I think we have to trust that God is good in all things. Even when we can't see it, humanly speaking in our fallen nature and just through human eyes, we can't see all that he's accomplishing through things that in our eyes just don't make sense. You know, Robert's death, for example. But there's no telling the fruit that's come from that. We may never know.
Odds are, we won't. But um more than anything else we know That he is constantly working out what is good for us and what is best for us is um Is our holiness. Not that we're perfect or anything like that, but He is constantly growing us in grace, growing us spiritually. and he's more concerned with our holiness than our happiness, but that Don't read that wrong. as we grow holy, we grow happy.
We actually get more joy in life. And ultimately, we're able to actually withstand things the world can't understand. The world can't make sense of losing someone. we actually have a hope. We have a hope that we'll see them again.
Whereas for the world, They have no hope. What is their hope? Yeah. Their hope is that they will forget. We don't have to forget.
We can remember and we can take joy in the fact that we can be reunited. Yeah, that the Lord will give us beauty for our ashes. And, you know, even as you were in the hospital, able to share from your brokenness because here you are. Physically a broken man, you know, and that's why you're in the hospital, and yet the Lord allowed you to share the goodness of the Lord because you are broken. And I think that that's something that is so beautiful for us to think about how the Lord.
He doesn't discard our broken pieces. He uses them and he actually multiplies the ways that he can use them if we are willing to be. Be a tool in his hands and share our stories and share our weaknesses in order to proclaim his strength. Um do you have a verse that you can kind of close us out on to give us a hope in our suffering? Sure.
Um 1 Peter chapter 5 verse 10. And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you. The Lord will restore you. He will establish you. He will bring you peace and comfort and hope, even when you feel like you are in your deepest, darkest seasons of mourning.
Thank you for joining us on this episode. Hope in the Morning is a non-profit ministry that seeks to encourage the hurting, equip those who walk beside them, and evangelize the lost with the hope of Jesus Christ. To partner with our ministry or to make a donation in your loved one's honor, please visit hopeinthemorning.org. Your donation helps keep these stories of hope on the air and helps tangibly meet the needs of the hurting.
