Golf With Jay Delsing - - Michael Bamberger

Jay Delsing spent 25 years on the PGA Tour and is a lifetime member of the PGA Tour and PGA of America. Now he provides his unique perspective as a golfer and network broadcaster. It's time to go On The Range with Jay Delsing. On The Range is brought to you by Pro-Am Golf. Good morning, St. Louis. This is Golf with Jay Delsing. I am your host, Jay.

I've got Pearly John Perlis with me. Brad Barge is in the studio taking care of us and pushing these buttons and dials. And we formatted the show like a round of golf.

The first segment is called On The Range. It's brought to you by Pro-Am Golf. Check us out on our social media outlets. Twitter is at JayDelsing. Facebook is Golf with Jay Delsing and Jay Delsing Golf. LinkedIn is Jay Delsing and, wow, that's a lot of Jay Delsing. Pearly, Instagram is. Who knows, baby?

Who knows? I'm just ready to get rolling here. Sports are starting to get going a little bit more. We've got the radio show going to get back in the swing of things.

Yeah, absolutely. We want to thank Bob and Kathy Donahue, Painting and Refinishing, for helping to sponsor the show here. They're great people. If you need any work, they do high-quality work around your house.

Call Bob and Kathy Donahue at Donahue Painting and Refinishing. All right, so this show today, we've got an interview with Michael Bamberger. Michael wrote for Sports Illustrated for, oh man, at least 20 years, maybe 25 years. And now he's with Golf.com. All right, I want to give a shout-out to the St. Louis Junior Invitational. It's been rescheduled for July 30th through 31st. It's going to be at Norwood Hills.

You can reach them at stlgolfjr.com. The tournament will consist of 72 boys and girls, ages 14 to 18. Bob Phillips has this thing called the Shining Light Player Scholarship that are available, so they use GoFundMe pages to help families, you know, underwrite the costs so that their children can come play in this event. Last year, they had boys and girls from six or eight different states. And this year, I think we've already had entrants from almost 10 different states. So, yeah, that's a cool thing for the club.

It's a cool thing for golf. And we want to support that in any way we can. Hey, Jay, this is another part of your intro. I think it'd be neat, given what's going on in the economy, the world, everything else, that Donahue Painting people have been so great for the show. Maybe we can kind of know how they're doing, kind of coming back and getting things ramped up again. So I don't know if you have a chance to touch base with them, but I think that'd be kind of fun to hear. I will do that. I had Bob on the Leading Edge segment, you know, a while back, and I've been in touch with those guys.

So, yeah, that's a good call, Pearl. I appreciate you bringing that up. All right, so let's jump into the PGA Tour return policy and what this whole thing kind of looks like. First of all, John, this thing has been two months in the making, and the PGA Tour has been consulting experts from all over the world, the World Health Organization, the CDC, doctors. And one of the things that was on the table early that I'm so glad that it's going to go down the way it is, is caddies are going to be allowed to play.

They're going to be allowed to be in the competition. And I was really concerned with what that would look like without caddies. Not the look of it, but just what it would do to the players. I just feel like the professional game, the caddies are just a massive part of that. Absolutely.

How would they play without caddies? Are you talking about all the guys are going to carry their own bags? Yeah. Yeah, well, that would be kind of interesting, too.

I wouldn't have a problem with that, but you know where I'm at on this, and this is probably fun to banter back and forth. And I appreciate that we're out there talking to all the experts. They've got to do their due diligence. But I think we kind of know what we know. We know some things and we don't know some things.

We're not going to know some things for a heck of a long time. And I just love the fact that they're moving forward. And so I appreciate that, and I love that there's some level of the PGA Tour leading the way of getting things back. I also think it's the easiest sport to kind of get going again, maybe other than NASCAR and stuff that they're doing.

But let's take the precautions that we know are positive and let's go. Well, Pearl, we know that golf numbers around the country are booming. I mean, it's one of the things that people are actually being able to do. They can get some exercise. They can get some fresh air.

They can get the hell out of their houses. But there's an opportunity here for the game, John. Being the first sport back, not a major sport, not a top four sport, but it's still a big, big deal. There are going to be eyeballs on these tournaments and on these, you know, like we had a week or so ago, the TaylorMade driving relief challenge and skin game.

There are going to be eyes on golf that probably weren't on the game before, John. There's an opportunity here to grow the sport in a very unique way. No question.

No question. It's a unique opportunity. Plus, there's a lot of people like me that really want to find how are things going to get moving back to things we recognize. And so I think to your point, there's going to be an extra appreciation that this sport is getting things rolling. I totally agree with you.

Yeah. I mean, there's also an example and you hit on it, hit the nail right on the head for me is that, you know, the tour can be an example of how to do this. Now, there are challenges that the other sports have that the PGA Tour doesn't. The fact that we are on an open space golf course, you know, somewhere between two and four hundred acres just makes this thing much easier as opposed to an enclosed stadium like the NBA or the NHL. But yeah, it's really an opportunity that I love the fact that the tour is seizing and I know that the players are itching like crazy to get back. I certainly hope that they are.

And I think, at least my way of thinking, and again, we all see this thing differently, but there's plenty of things that can be done and understood. And especially as close and caring as that player-caddy relationship is, that this thing can be completely safe and let's just go get them. It's more the production side, Jay, that you're familiar with. I am from playing peon for Ryder Cups and U.S.

Opens for NBC Golf for quite a few years. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that is tough on some of these things that need to be done as far as keeping social distance and that kind of stuff. Because there's a lot of people that go together to produce these things, these events. So even if there's not spectators, just to produce them in ways that we've learned or appreciate the game on TV, that part, in my opinion, is tougher than the player part.

Oh, I think, you know what, Jon, I think you're 100% right. You know what the easiest part is going to be? Playing the game. The hardest part, I mean, first of all, the players and the caddies are going to be pre-tested before they travel. Then once they travel and get to the location, so they get to Fort Worth, they're going to have a location where everybody's got to go in and get tested again. And you're not allowed into any of the club facilities until those tests have come back negative. Now you are allowed to go practice. You can even go have a practice run on the golf course.

But you go from the driving range to the course to the putting green into your car. You do not go inside until those tests come back negative. And there's a three-step process that they're using as well. So there's got to be some of the thermal stuff, so there'll be temperature taking, there's the PCR test, which is normally a two- to four-day result time that it takes to get this thing done. And the tour is looking into specialized labs that are going to be able to turn these tests around in just a couple hours.

It's going to make a huge impact. There's also no family allowed. How weird is that, John? You cannot travel with your family. You cannot bring your family. There's no dry cleaning services.

It's also interesting. Did you see what happens if a player tests positive, John? He and his caddie immediately removed from the tournament and taken following the local CDC and local guidelines and will be quarantined somewhere until there's more testing done.

And then the tour is going to pay for that player and his caddie to be kind of holed up somewhere until he gets two positive tests, two negative tests, sorry, in one day. There's an awful lot of control going on here, which makes my blood boil, but I get it that we have to go to these extremes in order to get everybody comfortable. Some people aren't going to need this type of thing. Some are. So I think the only way you really get a whole field pulled together is that you have to do these things.

It makes me crazy thinking about it, but I can see where it has to happen in order to get everybody to say, yeah, I'll come play because that's what it'll take to make me comfortable. So I get it. Right. And there's also liability issues. There's just massive amounts of issues to be dealt with. Also, we don't want to forget because the PGA Tour, as we know, is more like the world tour.

There's about 26 players from the PGA Tour that are in Europe right now. And so if they want to compete, they've got to be back in town, shoot, already back in the States, Pearl, because they need a 14-day quarantine period coming from Europe. So there is a lot, a lot of bureaucratic administrative stuff that's going to be done. There's going to be hand sanitizers everywhere. There's going to be gloves. There's going to be masks provided. So we do know that they're taking all the precautions they can to try to get this thing back in order.

And I know that the PGA Tour is trying, has kind of got slated for the Memorial Tournament, the third week of July, to be the first event back with some sort of spectator. So it's going to be really interesting to see what happens. Well, absolutely.

And so in Ohio, that state's been doing very well. And I'm hoping, as we all are, that things get more and more clear and more and more good information out there so we can all get a little bit more comfortable with what's going on. Yeah, amen to that. Well, that's going to wrap up the On the Range segment.

Don't go anywhere. Jon and I will be back for the front nine. We've got an interview from Michael Bamberger. This is Golf with Jay Delsing. Eric, Steve Stricker and many more will be in St. Louis. For tickets and sponsorship information, head to AscensionCharityClassic.com.

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You're going to love it. I want to give a huge shout out and thank you to Whitmore Country Club for sponsoring my show Golf with Jay Delvinger again for the second year. When you join out at Whitmore, there's 90 holes of golf.

You get access to the Missouri Bluffs, the Links of Dardeen and the Golf Club of Wentzville. And the cart fees are already included in your membership. There's no food and beverage minimums.

There's no assessments. They have a 24-hour fitness center, large pool complex tennis, and they've just got great family-oriented stuff. And if you get over there, you got to go in the golf shop and you have to say hello to my friend Bummer. Bummer is just a delightful guy that would love to help you and your family with your golf game. He and his staff out there run golf leagues, skins games, members tournaments, couples events are available all year long.

If your family is looking for a place where you can hang out, have fun, enjoy good food, golf, sports, just a family-friendly atmosphere, you got to go to Whitmore Country Club. You can reach them at 636-926-9622. We're all experiencing very trying times right now, but hopefully we can reflect a little bit on the things that matter the most to us, like family and community. At St. Louis Bank, we want to wish you and your family safety and good health. We're a part of this community and we are all in this together in such uncertain financial times. You've probably never needed your bank to step up and support you more.

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St. Louis Bank, here for you when you need us today and in brighter days ahead. Grab your clubs. We're heading to the front nine on Golf with Jay Delcey. The front nine is brought to you by the Ascension Charity Golf Classic.

Welcome back. This is Golf with Jay Delcey. I'm your host, Jay. I've got Pearly with me. Brad Barnes is in the room with us as well. And we've got to give a shout out to our friends at Whitmore Country Club for sponsoring the show.

Man, they've got one of the things. The last time I drove up to Whitmore, one of the things that just stuck out in my mind. I mean, you may have seen this too when you played because you've played out there since I have, but that place is always full. Always. The parking lots, the tennis courts, it's just everybody's having a blast out there. There's always a buzz, but it's never too crowded. There's always space to play.

You're never feeling rushed, but there's always just a life going on out there. Yeah, there's some good energy. And there's 36 holes at Whitmore. And you also get access to Missouri Bluffs, the Links of Dardeen, and the Golf Club of Wentzville. Cart fees are included there. So that's 90 holes of golf you get with this Whitmore membership.

No food or beverage minimum to no assessments. There's three tennis courts, a 24-hour fitness center, a super huge pool, year-round social calendars. The holiday parties are legendary out there.

There's picnics and date nights, live music. You've got to go in and say hi to Bummer in the golf shop. He is the assistant pro there, and he is just a terrific guy. And I promise you, as soon as you walk into the golf shop, you'll know who Bummer is. He is a terrific guy. And ask him how he got his name Bummer. It's a terrific story.

I think he's the youngest of nine kids. And those guys run golf leagues and skins games, members tournaments, couples events. They just do a great job. You're looking for a place to take your family, hang out, play some golf, some tennis. Great pool. You need to go to Whitmore Country Club.

636-926-9622. Alright, let's go. Wait a second Jay, wait a second Jay. I love the Whitmore commercials, and I'm excited about the place. You always talk so highly of it. When am I going to get invited out there? I mean, is Pearlie talking?

I did hear him. Pearlie, I think we should all get around and then we can finally get those golf balls we were promised. Maybe that's our chance. I'll take either the golf balls or playing with more.

This sounds disgustingly like a bag from my co-host. We've got nothing else to do. I'm supposed to be pumping this place up and I feed off of your enthusiasm for the place, but I figured it would be helpful if I went out there and played and had a beer. Maybe play a little tennis on the side, took a dip. I think that's the way you should go. Pearlie's looking for like, it sounds like he wants a spa date. It sounds nice to me. If we can get it, why not? Alright, well, we might have to get something like that in the works. Meat, maybe we'll grab you and Randy, the four of us will go out there and go terrorize Bummer.

Let's do it. I just saw Bummer two weeks ago. He's the nicest guy. He knows everybody.

As soon as you walk in, he lights up. He's got little, you know, four and five year old kids will walk in and they're all giving him five. And they're like, he's like, did you hit some balls today? And they're like, nah, I played some tennis.

She's like, don't forget about golf. You know, he's the Tiger Woods of Whitmore. Everybody loves him. He is.

He is fantastic. Alright, so we've got this interview with Michael Bamberger. Michael wrote for Sports Illustrated for years and years, over 20 years.

And he writes for golf.com now and just does a great job getting on tour. So let's just jump in to this Philadelphia native story. This is Michael Bamberger sitting here looking at some of the some of your work. And I also neglected to talk about the play. You know, I'm a baseball junkie and you wrote a play of entitled Barton Faye about Faye Vinson, Bart Giamatti and and that had a run in Philly in your hometown for about a year, didn't it? I did run in Philadelphia, not not not quite that long, only only two weeks, but that was that was still a thrill. I got to know Bart Giamatti. I love baseball as you do. And we came up in baseball, although I didn't play a real level two for Little League, but I came of age on the 69 New York Mets.

I know that means something to you. And then my first job after college was on the Vineyard Gazette or Martha's Vineyard. And my neighbor was Bart Giamatti, who was then the president of Yale and later became the president of the National League. And then subsequently became the commissioner of baseball and then got engulfed in this controversy over whether Pete Rose had bet on the Reds or not. And then and then Bart, with his deputy, Faye Vinson, to keep Rose out of baseball, put him on the ineligible list for the Hall of Fame as well.

And it was usually baseball's ineligible major ineligible for the Hall of Fame, technically. And so I wrote a two man play about Bart's relationship with with Faye Vinson. These days, most people know Bart as the or they know his son, Paul Giamatti, who's an actor.

He's got two other children as well. But yeah, I got to know both those. Well, Faye Vinson to this day is a very close friend of mine and Bart Giamatti died tragically about eight or nine days after after he kicked Pete Rose out of baseball.

Yeah, that was I can still remember that time frame, that that short 10 day time frame or so when he made that that decision and then passing away. And man, that's something. So, Michael, looking I mean, you wrote for Sports Illustrated for years and years. I read your stuff at Golf magazine every week. You wrote these books and there is some of the coolest stuff in your books. And I want to just talk about it. I probably selecting a favorite book.

It's like saying, yeah, this is like my favorite kid. But you've got books, Men in Green, The Green Road Home to the Link's Land Golfing Golfing Life, The Golfing Life. And one of the things I wanted to talk about in the golfing life that it still struck me was Bruce Edwards and Bruce Edwards, as we all know, caddied for years and years for Tom Watson. He actually met Tom in the parking lot of the golf course that I grew up in in 1973 when they were playing the St. Louis Classic at Norwood Hills. But Bruce in the ALS story and getting diagnosed, yet still caddying for Tom and watching, I was watching that firsthand.

It just seems surreal, Michael. That's well, that triggers so much for me. Bruce was not a close friend of mine. And yet I could almost say that I love Bruce as so many did, even if you didn't really know him well, because his spirit was infectious. He loved people. He loved the game. He really loved the tour and the tour life in the hotels and the bars in an appropriate way. I don't mean it in an inappropriate way.

He just liked hanging out and he was easy to be with. And his boss for many years, Tom Watson, is really a tough person and often on edge and prickly. And Bruce was just the opposite in every way.

And there's no way to calculate these things. But what Bruce did for Tom Watson's career is really incalculable. And you may remember this, Jay, but at that U.S. I'm sure you will remember at that U.S. Open at Olympia Fields, that Furyk won. Do you recall what year that was?

Oh, my gosh, I want us. I don't recall what year it was. I mean, you know, early. Yeah. But whatever year that will be, I'll just look at it right here while we're talking. But anyway, the year that that let's just look up here. So we have it. I do remember that was that was Jim Furyk's year when in the major and when in the U.S. Open. Yeah. Oh, three.

OK. So when. So Tom Watson played in the 2003 U.S. Open at Olympia Fields, Chicago. It's the one that Jim Furyk won. And Bruce deep into the throes of ALS was was catting for him. And Watson shot a first round 65.

And it's just extraordinary. And and later I asked and he went back to his his old pink putter that he used so well in the 70s. And he hadn't used it for some years. And I asked Bruce, you know, what was it like? What did Watson say about being reunited with this whole thing better?

And and Bruce said, Watson said it was like being with an old girlfriend. And I love that quote so much because it speaks to the relationship that golfers have with their with their putters. And it also just sort of captures the romance of golf. And golf has turned into a numbers game. And, you know, as as Randall Shambly would say, appropriately, you know, a big data game. And it is a game with a lot of data. But beyond the data, there's a lot of charm, a lot of romance and a lot of stuff you can't put your finger on. And Bruce really captured that in that one sentence.

Michael, so true. And in your book, To the Link's Land, I love the card for the course, the way that you set up the initial part of the book and had the different chapters. Part one laid out with like a scorecard, a front nine and a back nine scorecard in that book had so much. I knew how much you you had this love affair with the game because that book is almost romantically written, isn't it? Well, that's very nice. And it happened to be written in the first year of our marriage. My wife and I, in fact, were celebrating after years this year. So it was 30 years ago that that we did that.

But I was a sports writer on the Philadelphia Inquirer and I took a lead from my job. And Christine did the same and I went to Europe and Academy on the European tour and wrote about it, then spent a summer in Scotland and falling under the spell of a of a Scottish teacher named Stark, John Stark. And yes, it was a very romantic period.

It was a baggum baggum period. We were broke. We had no mortgage.

We had no children. You know, just like I'm sure for you when you got on the PGA Tour in 1985 and and you're always going to remember that period with a deep fondness. So, yes, that was a that was incredibly just lucky time. And I would encourage any any young people are listening if if there's something you want to get out of your system, do it while you can. So you don't regret it. You don't regret it like just like you did Jay trying to try to play that PGA Tour. It's hard. You made a living. And I've tried to do the same thing as a writer. It's hard, but I've made a living. But if you you know, if you follow your passions and one of my wife's phrases about these sorts of things is in life, you don't regret what you do. You regret what you don't do.

And anyway, so we took the plunge and we dropped out of the world for for really the better part of the year and and went to the European tour in Scotland and had a great time. That says a lot about your wife, my man, for her to go along with that. OK, so how about the men in green? This book reminded me of of looking at an old Rat Pack movie or something.

Michael is absolutely some of the pictures, the black and whites. I just love it. I know exactly what you're saying and why you would say that. And I feel that as well, particularly since two of the stars of Men in Green are Ken Venturi and Arnold Palmer. And they sort of are Rat Packers in their own way. And for those who don't know, you know, younger listeners who wouldn't know what the Rat Pack is, it refers to the collection of Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin, Sammy Davis Jr. and how they would sort of pile around. And there was a lot of that from these two players who came up in the 50s and 60s and into the 70s.

And it's capturing their their their life and times to some degree. My friend, Mike Donald, I'm sure, you know, Jay and I went around and visited some of these legends and been touring, especially when you speak to the Rat Pack. Well, he he he was he was an acquaintance or a friend of Sinatra's and he really sort of had that Palm Springs vibe and where the right code at dinner and know how to tip the valet guy and the and the maitre d and everybody else.

Just sort of the whole. Code is the code of you know what what they considered gentlemanly behavior is something that's lost today but but those guys really lived in Arnold embody that to you know with a totally different sensibility than Venturi but but he had it in spades as well so so that book does try to capture that period. Michael How hard is it to think about that book and think about how you just described golf and not think of the Bob Hope classic, or the Bing Crosby clean up Bob. Yeah, yeah, the Bob Hope classic and the Glen Campbell tournament, and the AT&T when was still the Crosby clan big, and a PJ tour that was dominated by personalities, not by, not by corporations. And I'm not saying that in an old fuddy duddy way I'm just saying that really as a statement of that the PGA Tour was dominated by personalities.

So, now, this thing will be meaningless to most people listening but a man named al best link who would have been your father's generator, who had tremendous skill and tremendous appearance and presence. But really the reason became a legend was his personality. And that really was the the tour that period, and and even really right into the 70s when I fell into golf. The reason that Nick was his Nicholas is a large part because of necklace and a large part is because of the personalities, beyond just the golf teams but the personalities of the men who tried to beat them and sometimes did and of course everybody knows about Billy Casper, and Tom Watson and Lee Trevino, but it's also Hubert Green it's also Jerry Pate.

You know sevi by stairs, as young men, people who were larger than life they were gritty john the happy, Lou gram. And, you know, part what's happened in other sports like in the NFL today, you know that the helmets are bigger. They're, they're often shaded, and we don't really get to know the personalities as well as we did and you know that the Jim Brown ever said. And, and it changes our appreciation of the game as fans, but the nature of being a fan has changed as well. So for me, falling in love with the game in the 70s. It was really the personalities of the of Nicholas and the people who are trying to beat them that really made me fall for the game. Michael is kind of an off the wall question but do you think with a person is growing so much in golf.

Do you think there's going to be this gigantic divide and almost. Oh, gosh, what's the word I want to say the word hatred but that's a little too strong but they're the way this, the fans and spectators react to some of the other athletes because of some of the money they make and some of the things they do do you think we're going to get there with golf there's, there's, you know when Mickey Mantle walked along or Stan usual, St. Louis, you know the greatest Cardinal of all time, he would walk down the street and he had this presence about him but he was also an ordinary guy in this and ballplayers and ballplayers are of ordinary size. You know, I remember seeing.

I'm sorry, just thank you. I remember seeing Frank Robinson late in his career, and, you know, he was my height and weight, like, man, how do you get all these home runs right. He wasn't a big man. Well, I was big for my time yeah but the time that the time has changed. I've been sort of fortunate in that regard that the players have largely done a good job of recognizing that the fans who come out to the tournament, make their lives possible. So I'm thinking about Ricky Fowler now he is a fan Jordan speed how he is Justin Thomas.

Phil Mickelson certainly. It's different. But so, that could happen Jay what you're talking about but it really hasn't happened so far. And, and I hope it won't happen I think that program round is a is, is very important to the PGA Tour, and gives the, you know, the top players who play in these programs, are aware of how their red gets buttered, and some sure understand it better than others but by and large. I think the players are good about it but by and large, they also have more corporate Hawaii, careful, trained, controlled personalities and profiles in media. So, it's not quite as authentic and believable as, and, and as engaging, not to me, as it once was.

But I don't think we're at that point that that you're that you're worried about, we're getting there but it's something to keep your eye on because it certainly could happen. It didn't happen with the hockey players you know when they started making big money they they remain very personable and very approachable and I hope it won't happen in golf that would be really a shame. Okay, that's gonna wrap up the front nine, and the first half of the Michael Bamberger interview, but don't go away. We'll come back to the back nine, and we'll jump right on the, the end of that interview and by the way, we want to shout out to the ascension charity classic, we appreciate their support we can't wait for this tournament. This is September early October, and, you know, golf is going to be back in St. Louis, all because of ascension. So come right back to the back nine this golf with Jay Delsing. This year you decided to stop listening to your buddy's advice and get some real golf instruction.

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I'm your host Jay got pearly with me and we are headed to the back nine sponsored by St. Louis Bank. Let's just jump right back in to the Michael Bamberger interview Michael wrote for Sports Illustrated for years and now writes for golf.com. Let's talk about your new book, man, you've got the the second life of Tiger Woods. Talk about this book a little bit Michael.

Well, I appreciate the fact that you even know about it just came out in the past week or so. I've covered tiger, some in first in 1995 and in some periods of his career more intensely than others. And everybody knows the broad strokes of Tigers like there was a tremendous biography written by two writers, Jeff Benedict Norman contain they wrote a big thick biography of Tiger Woods called Tiger Woods that covers really everything up to his Memorial Day 2017 arrest and I regard that as a very significant event in his life and times because at that point, his life could have he could have he could have killed himself or somebody else very easily that night. And instead, he didn't do that. He did the opposite.

Well, fortunately, he didn't do that. And then in the in the aftermath of that, I think this is my opinion. But I would say an opinion based on a lot of reporting and observation that he took stock in his life in a way that he had to really. And by taking stock in his life and changing things in his life, he was able to go on this two year journey that I won't say culminated but but includes the winning of the 2019 Masters. Continuing right now to this day, of course, we haven't seen much of the public Tiger Woods in recent months or this year at all, really. But but you hope that's the case. But anyway, what this book is about is a really close study of where his life is and where it got to and for him to be able to win this 2019 Masters, which is really one of the most remarkable achievements in the history of sport.

But I'm with you. I mean, when he came back from the I know back surgeries, and when he came back from the fusion and I watched him swing in his own tournament down in the heroes, the heroes challenge, I went, Oh, my gosh, he's back. He's at speed in the right place. You know, he wasn't lunging and lurching at the ball and I'm like, Holy smokes, how did this happen? And it's another time where, you know, he's, I don't know if even generational athlete for tiger is even appropriate Michael Had he not gone through that chasm in his life from 2009 ish or so the Thanksgiving for those number of years, every single record book on the PGA Tour would be his No question and and it's interesting to that you worded that way because I regard really tired of being on one path from 2009 right through the Memorial Day arrested 2017, even though he won a bunch of tournaments in 2013 he was player of the year, even though tremendous good works for charity and was active in his public life in ways. But there was there was some very significant hiccups along the way. And so, you know, you can't compare this to Ted Williams, you know, serving as a pilot in World War Two career. He was totally different from that. But he did lose years and years of his prime to surgery to personal travails and to come back from that is a tremendous testament to the human capacity to rush and that's what I'm trying to that's what I'm trying to capture. I can't wait to read it.

I just can't wait to read it and i and i i think the thing that I've never seen one of the things that I know you're you're on on this first of all I know that you wouldn't write this book if you didn't believe it with every fiber of your being. But when I watch him, he smiles way more than he ever, ever did. He talks to people. It's just a different Tiger Woods. I agree with that and and the and my only cautionary note would be that when you hear people say that Tiger has changed. And I would say the Tigers changing the tiger is evolving the tiger is growing. And I don't think it's night and day.

I think it's more subtle than that. And I would say that something happened to tiger on some deep level and I'm not pretending to know what it is, in which he has become literally more aware of the role that gratitude play has to play in a person's life in order to lead an evolved life. And I think you know Jay you and I are the exact same age.

I think I got you by a few months here but but but but the point is that if you're going to grow into into middle middle into middle age, and old age, and you don't want to be bitter person you want to be a person has relationships, deep meaningful relationships with your with your kids and your close friends and your and your colleagues, you really it's really incumbent upon you to develop some kind of deep understanding of the role that empathy and gratitude plays in your life because I think those are the starting points for a rich fulfilling life, and I'm not saying that in a preachy way I'm saying that just in terms of looking at my own life. And I think looking at Tiger Woods as you, you and I have both done. I think it's very evident that they do the same thing and I would say you can see it with his kids, and with other players, and with spectators, and, and really every aspect of his life well when he was the captain's on the President's Cup and it's, it's an exciting fulfilling uplifting thing to see. You know what Michael for sure when I just had policies here on the show, and we talked about the job tiger did down in Australia, in that the modern day the current Tiger Woods would have never had been able to relate to those players like he did. No, I agree, I agree with that and and of course, a lot of those players, literally grew up on Tiger Woods so they don't, you know, Ernie O's and BJ saying and Davis love and Phil Mickelson, they know what it's like to get beat by Tiger Woods and they got tired of it, understandably so.

This generation, really was just, you know, the John Roms and Justin Thomas and Jordan Spieth and Patrick Reed. They grew up being inspired by the life example of Tiger Woods and now they get to play with him as a, as both a teammate and to have Mr. Captain. That was a dream for them in a dream for target to be able to do it, and he rose to vacation and they were suffocation and it wasn't, you know, it was a tremendous President's Cup and the golf course role Melbourne role Melbourne added a lot to it as well. Oh, it's an absolute treat world Melbourne is so Michael let's talk a little bit about this fall master so we're going to look at the second week of November to play the Masters tournament here in in 2020.

Well, I think it's. Have you ever gotten to play against the National Jay, I have not I've had many many opportunities that I turned down because I wanted to earn my way into playing my first round I wanted it to be a practice round for the, you know, when I got a chance to earn my way in and I never did. You got to play in a bunch of other things I think I hope I hope you get to play it I know from people have played at that is a totally different course in November it can be really really a long course because they can have a very, they can have a very wet fall there on the tail end of hurricane season, but leaving all that aside the technicalities of how the course is going to play and the fact that it's going to be in football season and it's going to be impressive and all the rest. This is my biggest takeaway from the fact that they have announced that they intend to play the Masters in the middle of November.

Hallelujah, it is. In other words, Augusta National is a really prudent club has tremendous information resources at their disposal, and the fact that they think that the country in the world is going to be a safe enough place that we can have a Masters golf tournament in mid November, the fact that they're saying that publicly tells me that they must really think it is very very easy to happen. And I think that's great for all of us whether you're golfing or not I know your listeners are all golfing. So I take tremendous encouragement in that and I know this is a down period for all of us, none of us want once there's no one else to possibly be liking this period.

But I think, you know, come November we'll look at this, you know for fortunate enough to get through it on scape as a blip a blip with consequences but life will resume. And one of the things that all of us who love golf. Every year is the Masters, the Masters in April of course historically this year Masters in November we hope. And, and I think it's just wonderful, who's going to favor and how the course is going to play and, you know, you know all that stuff. That's just, that's the fine print you know that nobody ever read.

That's the icing on the cake. Yeah, that's right. Well, I can promise you this Michael, I knew that the PGA Tour was hunkered down and trying to redo the back end of the schedule, but I can tell you the guys in Augusta were smack dab in the middle of that conversation with their information their influence and their knowledge.

Yeah, I think that's right. And, and I think they're. I think they're just a very sophisticated group of people and even though they've gotten some things wrong over the years and they've got some major things wrong over the years. They've gotten a lot a lot of things right and you know when they build that part three course and they're doing when they add a bunker they know what they're doing. And when they, when they announced that they're going to have this tournament November in consultation with the NFL the PGA Tour and the Ryder Cup people the PGA America and all the rest, they know what they're doing it's a deliberative intelligent people and they know what they're doing. Well really is well, Michael, you would you like to weigh in on it, where would, what would you like to weigh in on golf, anything like I talked to aging or an estimate about the distance and things like that and where do you feel like the state of the game is and is there anything that you're concerned about. Well, this is you know I think like everything in life you've got to be vigilant to hold close to that which is important, and this is a little bit of a soapbox thing for me but I know it's going to be exactly the same for you Jay is that at some point at the elite level has to be complete faith in the scorecards the players turn in, and you can't. You can't overstate how important that is at all so there have been some issues in recent years, including with tired including Patrick read and golf has to really double down on that. If these scorecards, we're not going to try to catch you. You're going to turn the scorecard that is 100% and ethical every box is going to be filled in precisely, and it's, and we're going to trust it.

And by the way, and people don't necessarily understand this but I know that you do Jay. It's a two way street in golf. You know, the golfer is expected to turn an accurate scorecard and big brother is watching people don't really understand that that's that to bronze system is what is one of the things that makes it work. And then I would say more broadly than that and maybe this, this, this awful virus that's going around will will impact this in to some degree, I would love to see the casual game now you don't play the casual game Jay but you might these days, you didn't for years but but I do, I would like to see more golf played with fewer clubs, walking, fewer than four players, not in carts, a faster game on a shorter course on a browner course that's less expensive.

You know, that is golf in many other countries that is golf in many public courses, especially in the Midwest where you are Jay, but, but really, really all over this country, and I love Augusta national I love the masters, you know for that one week a year but it sounds really totally unrealistic image of what golf is what golf should be, and in a simpler less expensive game with less fertilizer and less and less water, I think, strongly would be it would be a better game so I hope, I hope, I hope golf will go in that direction I think, I think we'd have more players enjoying the game in a deeper way if we could go down that path. I love it Michael first of all, and before we wrap up please tell the listeners how they can get in touch with you how they can buy the book where they can buy it and things like that. I'm extremely available I respond to almost every email I get, you know, as long as it's polite and I'll just give my email just like because it's right there in the book. It's, it's all that it's an old fashioned email but it's Amazon Mary my last name bamberger 0224 al well calm people are welcome to write to me. I would love for people to say go to your library or go to a bookstore to get the book. Unfortunately bookstores are closed right now, but it's very, very available online through through Amazon people have been ordering it. It's had a, you know, it's had a rocky opening here it's not it's been a difficult time to launch a golf book but but it's available there you can try a little sample of the book right there on Amazon and if it's to your liking, you know, go ahead and find something else there's a lot of great golf books out there. If you're new to reading about the game. Don't start with me start with Bobby Jones or start with Michael Murphy's golf from the kingdom or, you know, if you're interested in tiger Murphy's book is an extremely interesting book there's the, the Benedict cotain books extremely golf is a rich rich history of literature and, you know, I hope I've added a little something to it but by no means am I the starting point of the finishing point.

Oh man, are you kidding me you're a when I do my reading to try to stay up on things I go straight to you I really Michael so appreciate your, your passion it shines through and everything you say thanks for joining me today and keep doing. Let me conclude with this for the young people out there's some of the some of the guys out there will know the name Ricky Barnes Ricky Barnes has played the tour for years he's playing a lot of tour events. I don't know if he's one of the house I can't, I can't particularly remember it, but he's a big strong athletic guy who's got a big strong athletic girlfriend wife I'm not sure if she was a volleyball player, but anyway when I first saw this Ricky Barnes get on tour. I said to myself, Oh, I know who this Ricky Barnes is this is Jay delsing all over again.

Play any sport, you put a stick in his hand he's going to hit it. I don't care if it's hockey baseball golf or something else across. Ricky Barnes I thought of you immediately, and Jay it's just a pleasure to be on here with you and, you know, you're a golfing lifer like I am we find a way to stay in the game and, and, and, and try to be meaning, try to say something meaningful about the game I really appreciate you having me thank you so much Jay.

All right, so that's going to wrap up the back nine, and the Michael Bamberger interview, but don't go away, john, and I will be back. This is golf with Jay delsing. This is Dan McLaughlin TV voice of the Cardinals, St. Louis is one of the best sports cities in the country, we also have a tremendous history of supporting professional golf, we're excited to bring golf back to St. Louis with the inaugural ascension charity classic September 28 through October 4 at Norwood Hills Country Club, don't miss your chance to see PGA Tour champion legends proceeds will benefit St. Louis area youth, including the Urban League, Mary Grove, the Boys and Girls Club and more for tickets and sponsorship information, head to ascension charity classic calm for the last 48 years program golf has been providing outstanding customer service to the greater St. Louis area for all of our golf needs from top of the line equipment to full service club repaired lessons and instructions, they now have their own retail outlet, as well as state of the art computers, cameras and things to customize your personal club fitting needs program golf carries all the major brands. They also have the latest fashion trends from Puma golf, whatever your needs program golf will meet them and have the best customer service in the industry, call us at 314-781-7775 or find us at pro am golf usa.com USA mortgages doing it again, Joe Caesar and his staff have lowered rates again this month, and they will waive closing costs. If you want to refinance to get cash out, lower your rate, shorten your term or eliminate that costly unnecessary mortgage insurance. If you are purchasing a property, they can issue a pre approval letter within minutes. They are the largest mortgage company in the state of Missouri, and their volume allows them to quote the lowest rates.

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Grab your friends a cold one and pull up a chair. We're on to the 19th hole on golf with Jay delsing. The 19th hole is brought to you by sniper brand golf.

Welcome back. This is golf with Jay delsing we are headed to the 19th hole. John, what's interesting about to me that jumped out about the Michael Bamberger interview, I know he wrote, you know, for an iconic magazine for years and years and always about golf and always the interesting little quirks from his perspective, but isn't it interesting how someone like him has found a way to stay in the game and we can so relate to each other because, you know, you and I have loved this game forever and we're still trying to figure out ways to stay into it talk about it, grow it.

Anything we can. Yeah, I think I think it's fun. I think from the early part of his of his story to play in the vagabond and run around Europe and caddying over there and the fact that he's really a good player. You can tell you can tell the passion and you both I love the people you have on the show, Jay, because these people also care about growing the game and they care about the changes of the game, the integrity of the changes of the game. So I thought it was just a wonderful, wonderful interview. And, you know, I've watched you I've ebbed and flowed with with golf and you stayed passionate through the whole thing. And now you're doing this this radio show. So you guys have a lot in common and you can just tell by the way that he presents this stuff that he just he had a blast doing it.

And what Bamberger did for me was provide that perspective. You don't get you don't get a perfect. Where do you find a perspective like that? How does you know, how does that work? You know, how does that guy get out of bed and get excited about this the way he does? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I don't know. But thank goodness for it. And because that's what we need.

Otherwise, I think all sports, but especially golf, otherwise, otherwise it can be very singular. And this guy makes you think about other things. Yeah, yeah, I will tell you his book, Men in Green.

Just look at the cover. And if you're a golfer, you won't, you won't be able to not open this book and read it. It's got Arnold Palmer shaking hands with Jack Nicklaus. And it talks about for me, that was like the golden age of the game, you know, where Arnold was still just he had he had passed the torch to Jack, but he was still really, really relevant and in so many different ways. Yeah, and I've said this a zillion times and probably ad nauseam for everybody, but it still reminds me, John, of the Bob Hope classic and going out there for years and years with you and playing those small little golf courses and having all those people come out of their little condos at Indian Wells and Bermuda Dunes and stand out there and watch us. And it, it just, there's something about that time on the PGA Tour that was so incredibly special.

So special for us. And I like the way you guys talked about how the changes now how they, the characters, the personalities of back then, versus now. And that's not to say there's not great things now, but it's different. It's different. Yeah, it is. It's a different field there. It's impossible to not feel the money aspect of the PGA Tour now.

It's impossible. It's just, it's just an entirely different, gone are the days of people traveling together in a sense where you're in a car together where you, you know, now they travel in private jets together and things like that. And make no mistake about it, John, I'd rather be in a private jet than in a car with, you know, four people, you know, as we're, as we're hauling ass to, you know, you know, 12 hours away. But there was just something about that time of our lives that we didn't know much better. And that was what everybody did. And that's what was on the table. And, you know, I just am grateful to be a part of it. That's, that was just, it's just awesome. Well, I like that part. I mean, now you think about some of the drives and the traveling, you just, we would scoff at it, but it's definitely some of the fond memories.

I can just drive it across country for me, playing Canadian tour, driving across Canada. Interesting times. And yeah, and you miss, there's all kinds of interesting things that happen along those travels.

Oh my gosh. Something we can talk about on the radio, something we can't. Ray Brown comes to mind up in Canada. He was a force for the entire country of Canada to be reckoned with, but we don't, we're not going to talk about that. And he was my roommate.

I knew some of that firsthand. What a fun guy. What a good guy he is. Sorry, Pearly, that's going to wrap up another show. Thanks for being with me. Neat.

Man, keep playing the game, dude. It's, I would say it's going to get better. I can't say that for sure, but I sure hope it does. If he follows the advice, it'll be just fine. Just fine.

All right. Well, we'll see you guys next week. This is Golf with Jay Delsing.

Hit them straight, St. Louis. That was Golf with Jay Delsing, brought to you by Whitmore Country Club. Tune in next Sunday for more from Jay John and the other pros and experts from the golf world. In the meantime, you can find all of Jay's shows at 101 ESPN dot com, as well as at J Delsing Golf dot com.