Golf WIth Jay Delsing - - Rick Ankiel

Jay Delsing spent 25 years on the PGA Tour and is a lifetime member of the PGA Tour and PGA of America. Now he provides his unique perspective as a golfer and network broadcaster. It's time to go On the Range with Jay Delsing. On the Range is brought to you by the Gateway section of the PGA.

Yes, good morning. This is golf with Jay Delsing. Pearly is with me. Brad Barnes is here at the ESPN studio and happy Sunday morning. We formatted the show like a round of golf.

The first segment is the On the Range segment. It's brought to you by the Gateway PGA. I'm just delighted to have this relationship with them. The PGA head pro has always meant so much to me since I started playing golf 100 years ago. We've got 300 men and women in our section that are helping to make our golf experiences better.

It's just great to have them on the show. Pearl, our social media outlets, we checked the box. Facebook's doing great. Twitter's doing fantastic and need a little work on the others. What are the others? We need a little work on those. Those are the ones we need work on.

Yeah, that's what they are. That's perfect. I also want to thank Bob and Kathy Donahue for painting and refinishing. 314-805-2132.

If you need help sprucing up the inside or the outside of your home, anything, these are the people you need to call. They're, first of all, great people. They do great work. All right, Pearl, one of my favorite interviews, I got to sit down with Rick Ankel. What I love about Rick Ankel, first of all, he's got an incredible story.

He rose shot up into the ranks of MLB like a rock star and just crashed with unable to throw a baseball, anything like himself. And he's so frank and honest about how it all went down and I just love that about him. Well, he said that was the secret sauce to getting through it. Yeah, it's really incredible. Okay, we got to talk a little bit about, and I'm sorry that Ankel interview is coming up later in the show, but we got to talk about Nellie Korda. We have to talk about Nellie Korda. A couple weeks ago, she claimed the number one spot in the world. She won her second week in a row, the KMPG Women's PGA Championship at Atlanta Athletic Club, our good buddy Scotty Dunlop's home course down there.

It's a great track. And she had won the Meyer Classic in Michigan the week before. John, there's something about the way she plays that reminds me of Tiger. Really? There's something about the way she plays.

What is it? When I saw Tiger swing the club the first time, it was okay. He was young, his arms were very thin, he was extremely flexible, and he looked out of control. When he started working with Butch, and, you know, he comes out on tour in 96 and then wins the Masters in 97, started changing his golf swing, played the best golf maybe ever been played on the planet in the year 2000. When he swung the club in 2000, Pearl, it looked powerfully elegant. And when I watch Nellie Korda, I can just think of, she's graceful, she's powerful, she's beautiful, which is neither here nor there, but this package, it is like she was meant to do this.

I'm with you. I love her swing. I like, when you talk about Tiger, I like the way she walks with confidence, I like the way she's focused. It's a phenomenal whole game she's bringing.

Where are the weaknesses? I watch her putt Pearl. Typically speaking, if you find, you don't always find great putters around the LPGA Tour. Now the Hall of Famers, clearly, right, I mean just watching her routine, how committed she is, I mean she looked so focused. Her swing is so simple, you sit there and go, why wouldn't this last for a while and why wouldn't it hold up?

And guess what, it is holding up, and if she wants it to, it probably will last for a while. Right, right, right. We never talked about this, it's really not horribly interesting, but I want to bring up, we should bring it up on your show though. Our show is not horribly interesting ever. What do you think of Back Nine in the US Open at Torrey? You know, we're a tape show, so we haven't had a bunch of time to talk about it, but it was like this amazing run of golf for like, I don't know, two hours or so, and everybody's kind of building up, and then the pearl is almost like the air just fell out of the balloon. No disrespect to John Romm, great putting exhibition that he put on on 17 and 18, those downhill, left, right. Well, but Jay, I mean, a big part of that was when Louie hits it left on 17.

I mean, that's when, to me, that's when the air came out, and I'm sure it came out of his sales too, because how does that happen? Well, I mean, they got that quality. I mean, this guy is unbelievable world-class. Obviously, we can all miss shots, but he had to be sitting there going like, you have got to be kidding me. You don't want to go right, but for the record, you can go 250 yards right and have a chance at something.

And still make a par. Yeah, there's no question. It was just a weird event, Pearl, and I don't know why, but I feel like Torrey leads itself to that a little bit. I think it can, for me, one reason I think it can is because of the type of grass, because of the type of, you get out of position a little bit, then you're trying to hit some shots that you can normally recover from, but because of the kind of wiry grass, you can't get there. Isn't Torrey supposed to be linked? Yeah, but it doesn't play that way.

And then the greens can get just enough. What would a U.S. Open Pearl look like there if they shaved the whole place? Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know. I want to run a quick tip of the cap segment. It's brought to you by Dean Team of Kirkwood.

314-966-0303. Today, we tip our cap to all the crews that spend countless hours on the golf course, keeping it beautiful, keeping it in good shape, mowing the greens, putting flowers out there, just making it a great place for us to go spend our time. We want to thank all of you folks out there. And we are tipping our cap to you.

Thanks again to the Dean Team. Colin and Brandy, 314-966-0303. You need any sort of vehicle? Pearly Drive one right this minute.

Got it. Got the boat towing behind it out in the parking lot as we speak. Okay, so give them your line about this great car.

It's the first truck I've had that pulls my boat instead of getting pushed by my boat, so it's perfect. I love it. Thanks, Colin.

We'll be right back. This is Golf with Jay Delsing. Hello, friends. This is Jim Nance, and you are listening to Golf with my friend, Jay Delsing. Did you know that the Gateway section of the PGA is comprised of over 335 members and over 200 facilities?

I didn't either. Every time you drive up to your local country club, public facility, or driving range, there's an excellent chance that it is run and operated by one of the many members of our section. Since the time I was first introduced to the game, a PGA of America professional was there giving lessons, running the golf shop, and growing the game. The many men and women of the Gateway PGA section spend countless hours behind the scenes doing hundreds of little things to make our golf experience enjoyable. PGA Reach, Drive Chip and Putt, PGA Junior League, Rankin-Jordan Golf Program, those are just a couple of the many programs run and supported by our section.

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Tell them Jay sent you for special pricing. Your therapy, our passion. Grab your clubs. We're headed to the front nine on golf with Jay Delcie. The front nine is brought to you by the Ascension Charity Classic.

Welcome back. This is golf with Jay Delcie. I'm your host Jay. I got Pearly with me.

Brad Barnes is taking good care of us here at the ESPN Studios. We're headed to the front nine brought to you by the Ascension Charity Classic this September 6-12. It's getting close, Pearl. Can't wait. Norwood's in great shape. The community's just come around. Ascension is just the rock star people.

They're going to be a great host to this event. But are you ready? Talk about where you're at. I'd say I'm feeling a little better than I did last time we had this discussion, but I'm practicing every day. I have some really good days. I still have some stinkers in there, but you know, I always did. Well, we'll put those behind us. Go get them. We'll blame them on the caddie.

That's what the caddies are for. All right. We got this great interview with Rick Ankel.

I hope you enjoy it. Drive, drive, left center field. This one will be extra bases for Kenton Ian. Here comes that throw from Ankel. He got it. Another one. Rick Ankel with his second outfield assist of the night, both on the fly, both over 200 feet, unreal.

Rick Ankel is brought to you by Golden Tee. Man, I'm such a huge baseball fan and such a huge fan of yours. Your career has been amazing. What's happened to you probably in your mind hasn't necessarily been amazing. But let's talk just a little bit about growing up and your life in baseball, because you had an amazing stat with some of your high school records, didn't you? Yeah.

You know what? Growing up, just normal beach life, I guess you could say, is the way I've seen. I grew up in South Florida in a little beachy town. So spent a lot of time around the water and just, you know, it's kind of a goofy kid and I just gravitated towards baseball with something I was instantly good at. And, you know, I was pretty small. I didn't grow till I was a sophomore in high school.

And I'm kind of glad for it, because I think it made me learn how to be creative because everybody was bigger than me. So once I did grow and gain the strength that everybody else had, I felt like I already knew how to play the game of cat and mouse, especially when it came to pitching. I grew up a huge Braves fan. So I'm watching the Braves in the 90s when you talk about Glavin and Maddox and Smoltz and the way those guys pitch. Well, from watching them, you know, every single night on TV, I already knew how to pitch.

And I was already kind of creative. But now all of a sudden I grew, gained a ton of velocity. And, you know, my sophomore, junior year in high school, I'm throwing nine.

I'm throwing in the low 90s already. So, you know, it was just it became, you know, instead of thinking, man, maybe I got a chance to go to college here, it became I definitely have a chance to, you know, gain a scholarship and possibly get drafted professionally. So everything happened pretty fast just because of, you know, how I grew.

It was over over one summer where I went from throwing 84 to 94. And then it was like, OK, this is real. And, you know, how do I lock this in and how can I make myself better for better? You know, Rick, it's kind of crazy when you start thinking about from the nuts and bolts of what you just said, because you're a crafty and creative kind of thinker. And then all of a sudden you throw some power and gas behind it. That's a game changer, isn't it? A total game changer.

I think that's a great word for it, too, because like I said, it was OK. I mean, I made my all star teams, but I wasn't the best on our team by any means. And then once I grew in that velocity came, well, now I can I understood how to pitch. Now I can start blowing guys away with different things. And it's just like you said, change the game for me and change the way everybody viewed me all of a sudden scouts start showing up at my games. And, you know, that whole dream of possibly going professional became very real.

And, you know, right there on the surface where I could see it. Oh, my gosh. And then getting drafted out of high school.

That's got to be a thrill. And we'll talk us through that. Take us through that decision. But, you know, because you could go to damn near any college you want to. Everybody's going to want you to play for them. But it's almost like you could just skip a step or something. So the college process or that, let's just say your junior year where you sign your letter of intent in high school.

Excuse me. What an amazing time. You're getting letters from colleges saying that they want you. They're going to offer your scholarship. I remember the first letter I ever got was from Stetson University. And I was just out of my mind, you know, your names on the envelope and the letterhead from the college is on the top of the letter.

And then after that, it just started to pour in. And being a South Florida kid and having really good programs as far as Florida State, UF, the Florida Gators and then the Miami Hurricanes, I looked at it like, you know, I was a hometown kid anyway. You know, I don't have to leave Florida in my and in my heart. I grew up a brave fan and I grew up a Seminole fan. And I really wanted to go to FSU. I wanted to go there and do the Tomahawk chop and live that dream.

And it became real. I started getting scouted by them, letters from them, talking to them. And all of a sudden, right towards the end, you know, right before the draft came, you know, they were like they came in and said, look, you know, your stock has risen so much. We just don't think you're going to be able to turn down what the professional teams will offer you out of the draft. So we're going to pull out because in baseball, even if if you sign a letter of intent with that program and then you end up signing pro, they lose a partial of that scholarship that they offered. So they didn't want to take that chance, which I understood, but I was heartbroken at the same time. And then I chose to go to Miami, which technically would have been closer to where I live, but still a great program. And at the time they were really good. So, you know, I knew I had a chance to win the national championships.

Pat Burrell was there at the time. So it was kind of like just I looked really looked at it as like a no lose situation. My mom really wanted me to go to college because nobody in our family had graduated college. And I just looked at it like, you know what, I'm ready to go to college.

I think it'll be a really fun time if I get drafted. And that works, too. Hey, fine. But it really it just I just both of them were no lose situations to me. I just want to play baseball. And it really didn't matter which way I went. And so. The Cardinals, I mean, did you have a favorite or obviously you said the Braves, but and how could you not love the Braves with what they were doing with a pitching staff and they were just they were perennial? Well, by the time you're looking at they were winning a lot, but they had just come from a really slow period of time, I think before that. Yeah, I wanted to be a brave.

There was no question about it. I want to go to Atlanta Braves. I grew up watching the Atlanta Braves. I want to play for Bobby Cox. And to be quite honest, I had no idea who the Cardinals were because, you know, TBS in South Florida, that was Brave Station. That's who we watched. And, you know, the draft comes and all of a sudden, you know, I get a call from my agent, Scott Boris, who says, hey, the thing was, Cardinals dropped you. And I remember saying to him, like, who's the same card?

I wasn't at the Braves. And, you know, he laughed and he said, listen, this is a really good organization. This is a great thing. Trust me.

It could be a great fit for you. And I knew nothing about it. And obviously he was right. You know, sometimes things work out for reasons. And, you know, the St. Louis Cardinals, the organization, the fans of town, they've been so good to me over the years. I mean, I wouldn't have wanted it any other way.

Oh, my gosh. And so you signed and you just kind of blew through the minors. I mean, the Carolina and the Midwest League All-Star starting pitcher. I mean, you got all the all the minor league accolades you could possibly get. And then it's the big leagues, right? Then it was the big leagues. It was a meteoric rise and I felt like I just kept getting better.

Something happened between my first year and the second year. Not something I could really pinpoint, but just all of a sudden my control got better. The fastball low and away. I just it became where I could throw that routinely. If I needed a strike, it was just a really good pitch for me. And I had a good fastball with movement anyway. So, you know, as a starting pitcher, you always want to have really as any pitcher, you want to have a pitch that you can go to when you need a strike in any count.

And it was a quality strike, not just a strike. So when I went in for that double a year that happened and I started throwing the ball to the inside corner a lot better. And everything just started to, you know, move in a in a better direction. I went from double A to triple A that second year and then and then to the big leagues. And all of a sudden you're in a locker room with guys that you grew up watching.

I mean, Mark McGuire had just broken the home run record the year before. So all of a sudden, you know, this guy's my teammate. I'm looking around at all these names in the locker room and you got Jim Edmonds and Mark McGuire and all these names of superstars. And you're a part of it. It's an unbelievable feeling to get dressed in that locker room. And you're looking at these guys that you've watched forever. And now all of a sudden you're on the same team. It's an incredible feeling. I can remember. But my very first session on the driving range, you know, just walking by Tom Watson, I'm like, there's Tom Watson. You know, I'm like, what the hell am I doing out here?

You know, you have all these wild bots run through your mind and then you start swinging the club and they kind of go away. But one of the one of my most favorite people in the world was Mike Matheny. And he was your catcher. Did you have an instant connection with him? Or how did you guys because I know you guys are pretty close and I know you think think a lot of him.

Yeah, no, listen, Mike. Well, first of all, he's the ultimate professional and he's an absolute animal. And there's nobody that's going to outwork Mike Matheny certainly in our, you know, in my playing days and watching how he went about the routine of getting ready. And even when it came to blocking balls, I mean, you're throwing a bullpen and he's treating it like it's the seventh game of the World Series blocking balls, framing stuff, doing this.

Never took a pitch off. And that was what was always amazing to me. And obviously, I think anybody who knows Mike, we know you know how solid of a guy he is. He's just that guy. He's all the earth. You could trust him with anything.

It just doesn't matter. So for me to have him back there and, you know, my rookie season, he had an unbelievable, you know, unbelievable season defensively, you know, because I would throw some zoom balls here and there and I would cut a fastball on accident, but he could catch it, frame it no matter what. You know, definitely a mentor of mine. And when you talk about having a solid rock in your corner, especially as a rookie, I couldn't have asked for anybody better back there behind the plate. OK, that'll wrap up the front nine, but don't go anywhere. John and I'll be back and we'll bring you the second half of our interview with Rick and Kiel.

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Get the protection and the peace of mind you deserve. Professional Golf returns to St. Louis in twenty twenty one. The Ascension Charity Classic presented by Emerson stars like Phil Mickelson, Ernie Els, Jim Furyk and more compete at Norwood Hills Country Club September six through the 12th. Tickets, clubhouse passes, hospitality suites and pro-am foursoms are on sale now. All proceeds go to North St. Louis County charities. Visit Ascension Charity Classic dot com or call three one four nine three eight two eight two eight PGA Tour. Golf is back in the loo.

The Ascension Charity Classic. I am with my buddy Joe Scissor from USA Mortgage. Hi, Jay.

How are you doing? Great, Joe. Thanks so much for the support of the show. I really appreciate the opportunity. Congratulations. This is your third year and we're really proud to be a sponsor all three years since the very beginning. It's a great show and we look forward to it every Sunday morning.

Well, thanks a bunch. Tell us just a little bit about USA Mortgage and what you can do for people. Well, USA Mortgage is a Aesop. It's an employee owned company. So over a thousand families here in St. Louis work for the company. So if you want an opportunity to patronize a local company, please call USA Mortgage three one four six two eight two oh one five. And I'll be more than happy to sit down with you.

Go over your options, discuss all the different programs that are available and give you an opportunity to support a local company. That's awesome, Joe. Thanks so much. Appreciate it, Jay.

Thank you. I'm sitting down with Mike Cummings on my PGA, my Gateway PGA Spotlight. Mike, good morning. How you doing? Good morning, Jay. How are you doing, sir?

Doing just great. Mike, please tell us what's going on at Eldon Country Club and down in Eldon, Missouri. You've got a lot of fun stuff I want our listeners to know about. Yeah, we you know, we're we're right at the gateway to Lake of the Ozarks.

So we do have a lot of traffic that comes through here from the St. Louis market, Kansas City market and and, you know, Iowa, Nebraska, those areas. But we're real passionate at this at our club here about our juniors and our veterans. So we've got a really, really strong junior program. You know, and one of the highlights of that junior program is our PGA Junior League each and every year. And then, of course, I'm a I'm a combat vet myself years and years ago. So being involved with PGA Hope hits really close to my to my my heart and trying to get veterans involved in the game of golf. So a couple of those programs were real passionate about here at my facility. And we try to do everything we can to cultivate those relationships with the kids and with our veterans as well.

Well, Mike, thank you so much for your service, but it's working. Your numbers are big down there and the vets are out playing golf. I mean, what a great way to say thank you for these men and women that have sacrificed so much.

Yeah. You know, one of the cool things we do, we started it, I think this might be my fifth or sixth year of doing it. We host a tournament every year and we call it our Carts for Vets tournament.

And we generally host it on Armed Forces Day every year, which is always that second Saturday or third Saturday in May. And proceeds from that tournament, we've been able to buy two of the solo rider golf carts, which are the handicap accessible golf carts for our veterans to use on our facility at our facility and other facilities throughout Missouri. They're really neat piece of equipment to have. So you can have a an individual that potentially may be a double amputee at the legs. And we could put them in this cart and strap them in through seatbelt harnesses and things of that nature and allows them to play the game of golf. They can drive this golf cart on the green.

It's got a compaction rate of one hundred eighty five pound person. They can drive it into the bunkers and allows an individual to play the game of golf that that, you know, may be a double amputee. And we also have other individuals.

I mean, one of the cool things about it is I've got some seasoned members at my facility, one of them being a Korean War vet. He's ninety four. He plays twice a week and he utilizes his cart. And, you know, he thanks me every day and thanks God every day that he's still able to play the game of golf at ninety four years of age by using one of these golf carts that we were able to raise the money for him to use at our facility. So that's that's a pretty cool thing to be able to do and to be able to have as well. You've seen it and played it in bars over the past 30 years. And now you can bring golden tea to your home, complete your basement or man cave with the popular arcade game. The ultimate virtual golfing experience over 80 courses, unique game modes, and you can even challenge a buddy in online tournaments.

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We're halfway there. It's time for the Back Nine on Golf with Jay Delsey. The Back Nine is brought to you by Fogelbach Agency with Farmers Insurance.

Welcome back. This is Golf with Jay Delsey. I'm your host Jay. Pearly's with me and we're headed to the Back Nine that's brought to you by the Fogelbach Agency with Farmers. 314-398-0101. Ed Fogelbach and his family run this agency and they are nice people to deal with. If you have any sort of insurance product, any sort of need, call them today.

They will help you out. Let's get right back to the conclusion of our interview with Rick Ankeel. Ankeel out to deep right field. Has a chance to leave the ballpark.

It's gone! A three run shot for Rick Ankeel back in the major leagues. Remarkable. Five to nothing St. Louis. Remarkable.

Rick Ankeel is brought to you by Golden Tee. You've written a book. It's called The Phenomenon and Pressure and the Yips. The pitch that changed my life. Can we just talk about that pitch and about that whole situation? It's the 2000 NLDS game one and you're starting as a 20 year old rookie. Yeah, what an amazing moment, right? I had a good rookie year and then that last month really turned it up and one pitcher of the month was feeling the flow and felt like this was my time to shine.

This is my time to come out and show everybody who I am and what the future is going to look like. Not only that, but we're playing against the Atlanta Braves, my childhood heroes. I'm pitching against Greg Maddux, my childhood hero.

So all these things lining up. I remember before the game, ironically, I'm in the clubhouse with my bat and all I can think about is I want to hit a home run off Greg Maddux so bad. I wasn't even worried about pitching because everything was going so well. It was like, it doesn't matter. That's gonna be fine.

All I need to do is hit a home run and I'll be a legend forever. So that's really where my mind was. And then we get into the game. And, you know, Mike Mazzini got hurt with the hunting knife.

So he wasn't there. We had, you know, another catcher there who just wasn't familiar with catching the and I threw a fastball in. And as I mentioned earlier, sometimes, you know, I get around it trying to throw it a little bit too hard or whatever, and it would cut on accident. Well, we're talking about a ball at 95 miles an hour that's cutting, you know, five or six inches and you don't know it's coming.

And sometimes that could be hard to catch. I've let this I let this fastball go and it cuts and he misses it. And it wasn't even really a bad pitch. It just he just didn't catch it. But, you know, I remember thinking, man, I just threw a wild pitch on like national TV, which terrible thoughts. But that's what went through my mind.

Yeah. And it wasn't about a pitch. So all of a sudden, I spike a curveball, things start speeding up. I launched a couple balls off the back, back screen. And you know, I'm standing there looking at this going, Okay, wait a second, what's going on? So you start I start trying to use all the mechanical keys that have always gotten me back on track, whether it was, you know, stay over my back leg, keep my front shoulder and the things that I would use and nothing was working. And it just kept getting worse. And before I know it, you know, I walked, walk the entire team, it felt like and I was out of the game. And all of a sudden, I'm staring at a game where, you know, we were up four or five runs or whatever it was against Greg Maddux, which is unheard of in game one. All I needed to do was go out there and pitch a okay game. And we win the game and all of a sudden I'm letting the Braves back in and I can't throw a strike and I'm out of it.

Just just a real moment. And I think you know, at the time, with the meteoric rise and the way things were going for me all the media attention, just everything that was there. And all of a sudden the rug gets pulled out from under you and it's gone and you don't know why. You know, I just I was too young to even understand the magnitude of the moment and it honestly exactly what was happening. But it's, it's, it's interesting because you said your mind starts speeding up and because I've had the hips when I played golf before. And that's exactly what happens all of a sudden, you go from this kind of calmish spot to there's so much running through your mind, you don't even know what it is anymore. You know the thing to that first game I didn't even know it.

Yes, the gifts. I don't even know what the word meant. I didn't even know what anxiety was at that point.

And so during this is 2000 so during that came honestly I didn't know what was going on. Then I go into the next game against them we end up beating the Braves we go on to the next series gets the match. I talked my way into pitching again, because I threw a bullpen in between that I was lights out.

Tony calls me in his office. Hey, I don't really think you should start, blah blah blah and I'm like, Listen, this is my time you see my bullpen that behind me I don't know what it is but I'm ready to go so like, you know, long story short, Okay, here you go. Well I go out, you know, I started throwing wild pitches again it just happens again. And I still didn't understand what was going on I remember telling the media and everyone like it's just a mechanical flaw fix it doesn't matter. And that was really just the naiveness of being a 20 year old and not, you know, not understanding I had never gone through anything that I couldn't overcome or beat, and I always just thought, I know my body and my mechanics so well that I'll overcome this with pure mechanics because I know what it is, I'll, like, replicate that to an exact science to where every time I know exactly where I want like it always has. And that just didn't work and I would say not until you know going through that offseason and then coming around to 2001 into spring training is when I really started to understand, you know, this wasn't a one time event, one time thing and this was something I was going to have to really buckle down and, you know, figure out to be even close to who I was before it happened.

Rick did this stuff. So when I've had this and I've had some close friends, talk about this before and I really appreciate you sharing because man athletes run from this like it. Oh man, it's a kryptonite because it's the plague it is it is kryptonite but because you don't nobody wants to come and help you because they feel like if they touch you they might get it I mean it's so freaky isn't it. It is but I, you know, it is in a way but think I mean, for me when I look at it I understand that look, everybody's fragile. Most, most people's psyches are fragile and athletic careers are built on confidence. And when your confidence gets shattered, and maybe you don't necessarily know how to handle it. It can become the end of your career which for me it was pretty much the end of my pitching career I always I came, I made it back again but I was never that same cocky confident Ken that I was before it happened. And you know, especially, we're going back to 2000 2001 now that was just an untalked about thing and this is the time when men didn't go to psychologists and, you know, you didn't ask for mental help and nobody really, you know, put too much time and effort or didn't want to admit it if they did a taboo type thing where I think now to like, you know, it's much easier in a sense for guys to try to hide it and pretend that they don't have it or they're not dealing with any kind of insecurity than it is to admit it where it's obviously now going through it and I'll ask you in a second but after being through it going through it like I know it now helps me to talk about it, then not talk about it because it's a lot easier for me to say hey you know what yeah I don't like I'll do it, or yeah I don't like you but I'm going to do it versus you try to hide it everybody can see it anyway. It grows bigger and it becomes something you know a big dragon you don't want to deal with.

You know, the golfers, you know it's not a team and you don't have a whole lot of people really pulling for you so there's not a lot of information least back then that was shared. And so, once I started realizing that I wasn't like completely crazy. I started feeling better about this, about it but it was not an easy thing to try to, you know, even figure out how to get help from. Well, no doubt about it.

And, you know, now that it's well we're 2021. You know, I think people have really dug into this and tried to figure out how to get guys through it, and you know a lot more things have come out on your fight or flight system and emotional responses and some things that you can. There are some things out there I think that you can help guys with to help them understand that, you know, when you start going through this or that anxiety comes the fight or flight, that that's not your body is just preparing for for what it thinks is going to be, you know, a war moment or a battle type moment and I think you can help guys by helping them understand that one they're not alone to that. This is your body's natural response to it's feeling stressed and feels like it's getting put into a danger moment so you're not, you know, don't feel like you're all of a sudden crazy now because this is happening that's just your body's response because it's preparing for a battle.

And there's more to it than that but you know it's, it's, it is crazy. There's no question about for golf. Most of the time the putting stuff gets comes in because we're trying to control the ball too much. And we're also not aiming, where you think you're aiming so when you're losing your young and you don't think about much. You know you aim a little left and you push it a little aim a little right you hook it a little, who cares.

But when you start playing professionally, and you spend all this time. You know, on certain things just like you said, I can throw this ball right where I want to I know when to release this thing, yada yada yada and all of a sudden you realize, holy smokes, all these old keys don't work anymore. I was completely lost Rick, I was like, I don't know if I can even hold on to my partner. That's how bad I felt. I was looking down and couldn't feel the ball and then all of a sudden my wrist action would work you go to throw for me anyway you know I go to throw the baseball and it's like you have a miniature Caesar and you black out through the release point all of a sudden you open your eyes and like okay where'd the ball go.

Did I bounce it or did I throw it like really high left. It's an amazing thing and that's the thing right it's like, you know, as a young, when we're young, we just do things without thinking and then all of a sudden, you know, you're never taught tools and how to deal with maybe adversity or anxiety and all these things and then, and then, and then something happens where you have, where, you know, you have to think about it, and you don't have anything to go back and rely on. And then you start to over analyze your confidence gets shattered, and then you start trying everything under the moon. Well, maybe I used to put with my weight on my left foot or my weight on my back foot or my hand this way that way and you start looking at video and you almost create more problems than what was there before because the reality is either you make the putty you don't. But what happens is we start judging ourselves and going oh my god I missed it by eight feet, or I missed it six inches to the right. The reality is either you made it or you didn't. You know I mean you commit to a putt you make it or you don't but easier said than done right and then you know that's what happens you start being debilitated by your thoughts, instead of letting them help you.

It isn't amazing when we're young how there are no thoughts. I mean, basically, I can remember just going through a round of golf going I've got, you know, I'm going to every time I got my driver, I swung as hard as I could. And everything else. I just I all I tried to do is hit the ball. I mean, I was literally aiming at a flag in, you know, in, in just swinging the club.

That's it well in. So in baseball Yeah, and in baseball, it's the same way as many golfers I've talked to, it's typically the same. It's all in the finesse stuff, the pus and the chips is where it gets. It gets sticky because you have to can you know you got to control it, versus if you're swinging your driver and you're just letting it rip, or if I'm doing something in baseball and I'm letting it you know what I'm throwing it at 100 feet I'm letting it eat. That's fine you get into the infielders of the catchers throwing it back to the pitcher and they have to love it, they don't look at it, all the finesse stuff is where it gets in trouble because you know what happens is we start slowing down through the contact point, or through the release point, and you're not being aggressive, you know when you're young, and it's, you know, it's just, it's, it's, it's mind boggling in one sense right because most of the time. These athletes whatever sport is, it's something they've done since they were three years old, and whether it's throwing or hitting. You've always been able to do it left handed right handed it's standing on one foot one toe sideways right if somebody could ask you to hit a cut you do it no problem, somebody asked you to do this you do it no problem and all of a sudden you go through this, and you don't remember.

You don't need like you said you don't even remember how to pick up the club we get lost and all this jumbled thoughts and over analyzation and trying so many things that you forget what the basic, you know what your basic tools were. Rick you know it's interesting my, my dad played Major League Baseball I come from a sports loving family and the baseball players typically are really superstitious, at least my dad fit right into that. And so I was given the superstitions, and I was like, wait a second, did I mark that ball with my head, the head up or our tails up or I wound up having to give up all that stuff because I couldn't keep track of it it was so crazy.

It was like wait a second it had nothing to do with anything. Understood I've done the same thing. The way it is what it is right we all want something to make it, you know, take the creditor or put the blame on, and I'm with you I know when I went when I was going through the throwing stuff. I became so I started over analyzing everything even though I knew it sounded crazy and it wasn't, you know, all I wanted to do was be the picture I was before this happens and I remember I brushed my teeth and it's like well maybe I brushed my teeth this way that way or maybe I opened the cards, you know, you start, I just started over analyzing everything because I didn't know what to do or where to go all I wanted to do was be the guy was before so that's the that's the merry go round and 24 seven, the, where it takes you and how you know how it can literally destroy you mentally on and off the field because you can't just, you know, you hear over and over to leave what you do, you know, at the golf course, or at the field leave it there, you go home and you live a different life it's not who you are just what you do but when you go through something like that. You can't help but take it with you and you know, even though you're trying to forget you're driving down the street, I see kids playing catch. I might stop and watch them and try to throw like they're throwing I watch a weekly game on TV and I'm like, well let me try those my cats maybe that'll work.

I think you try so many things you just end up getting way more lost and we you know you go way down the rabbit hole it's a tough thing to deal with. Yeah, you forget who you were as an athlete, you know, because you have these unique qualities and I, I Oh my gosh, it's so interesting. All right, so let's talk about the return though. This was one of the most impressive things ever so you decided you had Tommy john you had a bunch of various things but you decided, you're going to go back into the cardinal system is an outfielder.

What, who can do that. Well, luckily, I mean, you, you did it. You know what I was so, you know, I finally got to the point where I was like, you know, the pitching thing I guess it's just not going to work it's, it's starting to change, you know who I am and my relationships with with everyone around me. And I tried to look at it like what's this look like in five years or eight years and that's it.

This is what it takes for me to to go to the field and try to be successful compete against guys, it's not worth it it's taken a toll on on my health. And so at that moment all of a sudden, you know I'm done I'm done with baseball the day I walked in Tony's office and said hey I can't do this anymore I'm done to the same day, by the end of the day I end up, you know, agreeing to come back as an outfielder. This is a whirlwind of a day but you know at the end of it.

You know, keeping this short and sweet. I looked at it like you know what, I got nothing to lose that all the stuff I just went through with this throwing thing. Why not give it a chance to hit, I always felt like I could hit, I think the biggest, you know, I had power. The biggest thing I was looking at was will I be able to hit, you know, for enough average and hit every day especially when pitchers start trying to pitch me as a hitter with all their repertoire versus just, you know, trying to pitch me as a pitcher so that was my biggest question but once again I looked at it like, you know, what do I have to lose I might as well give this thing a shot.

Okay, so how does this sound. There are two people in the history of Major League Baseball. One of them is you, and the other is a guy named Babe Ruth that have won 10 games and hit over 70 home runs that won 10 games as a pitcher and hit over 70 home runs, and also to start a postseason game as a pitcher, and also hit a home run as a position player in the postseason.

Really. It sounds like you can keep saying that and I'll never get tired of hearing it. Same thing as with Babe Ruth, it feels amazing. Oh my gosh, Rick I can remember, I think the first home run you hit in Busch Stadium. And I think Tony La Russa almost had a heart attack. I can remember them showing Tony, and I know Tony and he's such a good guy and he thinks the world of you, and I can remember the grand slam that you hit. I think it was against the left hander for the Reds or something but anyway it doesn't matter. But I was so impressed but here's what I want to circle this back to but the two throws that you made in centerfield I think they were both in Colorado weren't they. You got to know what throws I'm talking about to Yeah, they definitely were. I mean, just an amazing, just an amazing, amazing moment amazing game, and, you know, it's funny because I every I always played everything humble and cool, and, you know, I made the first throw and I throw out Willie Tavares who's one of the fastest runners in the game at the time, and it was an unbelievable throw there's no question about it so I make that throw and now we move on to the game, you know, move through the game and, you know, there's nobody on and quit Nia hits the ball into the left centerfield gap, and I start hauling blood over there and I'm, you know, I'm a zillion feet away at the fence but like I said there was nobody on so I got nobody, nothing to lose I can let this thing, I can let the ball eat, I can try to throw them out. As soon as I let the ball go, it came out so clean that I knew I had a chance. And it's a funny thing as a player, you never know when your greatest moment, your greatest play, or your greatest game is going to happen.

But, Troy gloss speaks the runner the throw ends up being there on time Troy gloss speaks the runner and he tags them umpire calls them out immediately. Looking back, I wish I would have liked shot air guns or a fake laser or bow and arrow. So, something, only because in that moment, you know, it happens fast but in that moment I knew I'll never have a game again, where I throw two guys out like that it'll just never happened like the opportunities don't come like that and the fact that it was, you know, I threw it as far as hard as I could and it was on target.

It's just funny how many, and I'm sure you can attest to this, how many like thoughts actually go through your mind, like really really fast even though they're short moments. And I knew right then like this is never going to happen again. This is the greatest game ever gonna hit a home run that game too so it was like this is, this is the pinnacle of games I can never have a game with with this many moments in it.

But anyway, yeah, what a fun game. Oh my gosh, Rick, I was taught you watch you want to know when a good play happens on the field. Watch the other players reactions. So, with the first, the first runner you threw out of third to virus. The gloss gloss did a great job on both of them but the throws were perfect tell he didn't even. I mean he looked like he was a statue, right and so the runners were letting up a little maybe but they were perfect throws, but how about our bench, the guys on the bench were erupting when this was happened, you could see everybody just anticipate watch this role with their mouths open. And then you did it the second one from, from in the middle of that. Was that a course field.

Yes, that was a huge ballpark right even though the ball flies it just seemed like you threw it from, it would be like throwing it from downtown St Louis out the Chesterfield or something it was, it seemed like it stayed in the air forever. And to watch the reaction of your, your fellow players. That's what, when I knew I'm like, this is never going to happen again.

I'm with you. And my favorite part is when I'm watching Chris Duncan and his reaction. We were, we were really good friends, and every time I get a chance to watch that highlight and I see his bright smile and his reaction and just gives me the ultimate grill. That's, that's a great thing. That wraps up the interview one of my favorites.

I just love his honesty. I know it happened a while ago but some of that stuff. Some of those balls he was throwing was so embarrassing you know I've embarrassed myself horribly with golf club in my hand and I just love how he, how he just confronts it head on and says how much it helped him by doing so. Yeah, but old baseball, old timers, the past, confronting things wasn't really what it was about. It was absolutely about sucking it up, don't talk about it, pretend it didn't happen, don't acknowledge it. And I think we find that there's a lot of reasons not not to do that kind of stuff. I think it's very cool that he kind of led the way with that.

And it is, he says that's what gave him the opportunity to do something else. Yeah, no, we got let's wrap this back nine up and then we'll break down the rest of this interview on the Michelob alternate because I'm on a roll let's keep going. Let's come Pearly's mic mate.

All right, we'll be right back. This is golf with Jay Delsing. This is Bill DeWitt III, president of the St. Louis Cardinals and you're talking to Jay Delsing.

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The 19th hole, our favorite brought to you by our friends at Michelobultra. Grab one pro. Let's go. I got one already grabbed. I'm going. All right, let's go.

What do you got? What the Rick Ankiel stuff? I mean, the most obvious to me is is we can relate to it. You talked about how you can relate to it, but it's just kind of losing the game. So I had a question for you to throw it out there.

I know we just have a couple of minutes left here. But what's what's a time you lost it like for a round or a week? And when's a time frame you lost it?

So the first one, when's the time you just found yourself completely? I can't get it around the first time I ever I remember that we were having the state amateur at Norwood Hills and I was at UCLA. And I had somebody give my parents money so I could fly back to qualify because I couldn't get an exemption into the tournament. And I got out practicing the day before and I shanked everything. And I've never shanked anyone before. And I had no. And all of a sudden I was like, oh, my gosh, the only shot I could play was this big, wacky looking hook. Every time I tried to cut a ball, I shanked it. And I got out there and I'm like, I'm done.

Yeah. I mean, how was that nice sleep the night before? It wasn't too bad.

That's the major difference between you and I. I wouldn't have slept a week. So I got out there in the qualifier and I aimed right. And I wound up shooting like 73 or four. And then somehow I worked my way out of it. And I don't remember, but I do remember the feeling of sheer panic. And it was almost probably that I was young enough and I didn't have these massively high expectations yet. I mean, I think it was like early in college. I hadn't been an All-American yet and I was still finding my way.

I don't think I changed the length of my clubs. Remember what a big deal that was for me and stuff. So but but I can remember this. When I had the yips, it went with me everywhere. It went with me out to dinner.

It went with me. All I could think about was I got the yips. I got the yips. I can't, I can't put the ball straight.

That's all I can think about all day long. It's so hard to watch somebody with their yips. We can do that when we're just playing with friends. But sometimes you'll watch senior tour in particular.

Tom Kite comes to mind. And it's like, literally, is he going to hit it? I remember when Johnny Miller, I think he had the yips. He still wanted pebble that time. And he was just absolutely like throwing the heel at it. I finished fifth that week.

I was, I should have won that event. But that's a whole, that's an entirely different show. That's another whole yip we could talk about another time.

Speaking of yips. But yeah, it's tough. It's tough to get through those times and it runs through your game.

And as you just said, it runs through your life, which really makes it hard. And that's what Rick said. He goes, that's why he gave up the pitching aspect because he said it was destroying, it was hurting relationships.

And he had, you know, I loved what he said. He goes, I'm pitching against my hero, Greg Maddux. And all I can think about before the game is I need to bat in my hand. I need to bat in my hand.

Because I'm going to hit a home run off him and I'm going to be a legend. He goes, the pitching part? That was easy. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy.

Amazing the tricks our mind can do both to our benefit and to our demise. Yeah. Pearl, that's going to wrap up another show. One more in the books. Thanks for joining me.

Thanks for doing this with me. Meat, thanks for taking care of us. Hit them straight, St. Louis. This is Golf with Jay Delson. Peloton, let's go. This holiday with the right music and the right motivation from world-class instructors. We're going to pick it up a notch.

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