PGA Rules Official Slugger White - - Golf With Jay Delsing

Jay Delsing spent 25 years on the PGA Tour and is a lifetime member of the PGA Tour and PGA of America. Now he provides his unique perspective as a golfer and network broadcaster. It's time to go On The Range with Jay Delsing. This is Golf with Jay Delsing. I'm your host Jay.

Good morning. Pearly, what's happening? Well, let's see. Blue skies, lots of sun, green grass at the TPC of Scottsdale and things are more than heating up. We're delighted for you, Pearly.

I can honestly say from the bottom of my heart, we don't give a damn. I gotta say to Brad Haley, hey Brad, you won the golf balls last week. I forgot to announce who won the golf balls last week.

We might as well do this this week as well. John Swert. John, you won the golf balls this week. I'll be reaching out by email.

Guys, keep sending us, sending me emails. Jay at JayDelsingGolf.com. Put the word balls in the subject. There are balls in there somewhere that you want some free golf balls and we will get those out to you. Pearly, we format the show like a round of golf.

This first segment is the on range segment. It's brought to you by our friends at TaylorMade. We just jumped right into the golf ball giveaway.

We're giving away a dozen TP5s every week. It's been extremely popular and I love having TaylorMade as part of this show. I love it too and you've been speaking so highly of your equipment and the great interview last week with Jeff Thornhill. So we got a lot of TaylorMade stuff going on.

I know there's a lot of other great equipment out there, but we appreciate TaylorMade's support. Yeah, we do. All right, and we were skipping our social.

You were so good last week and so in depth with the with the eight seconds of social media. Everybody's just content. We don't need it. So we're going right. We're status quo anyway. We're still canceled and appropriately so. Perfect. Bob and Kathy Donahue are not canceled at Donahue Painting and Refinishing 314-805-2132.

Call them. They will help you beautify your home and they're great humans. Really good people. All right, John. Slugger White this week. Slugger White. What a great guy. Good old friend. Man, jumping on with him just made me reminisce about the PGA Tour, the friendships, the cities, the situations.

Gosh, we had a blast doing this little recording talking about different rulings and things like that, Pearl. Man, he's a guy that played the tour, played about 75 events. He made about $32,000 back in the day when that was not easy to make. And there was an official for right about 40 years on the PGA Tour just retired and now Greg Norman's hired him and he's got his face in the news again because he's going to be running the rule side of this new tour that Greg Norman and the Saudis are trying to come up with. We know of a couple guys that have made that transition from player to official. I can't fathom making that, but I'm glad guys have done it and I think they really have enjoyed it, most of them once they've done it. There's no doubt, and we mentioned this in our interview, but playing the game at a high level really, really helps in a big way when it comes to officiating. And man, I got to tell you, you need a strong backbone in certain situations when this happens on TV and stuff. Oh, I bet.

I'm looking forward to hearing some of your stories after the interview. Super excited about having Rapsodo as part of the show. They just came out with a new discount. If you go get yourself this Rapsodo Launch Monitor, this cool little pack.

This is like a little pocket rocket that works in conjunction with your cell phone. Go to checkout, enter the code delsing and get 100 bucks off of that Rapsodo Golf Launch Monitor. It is a terrific product and you will love your winter practice with the Rapsodo.

I got to mention Rapsodo. I really appreciate their support. We're going to get the North American General Manager Art Show on the show.

I'm interviewing him and this product is fantastic. Go get you one of these Launch Monitors. It's a little pocket rocket. It works in conjunction with your cell phone.

You carry it around in your pocket, I should say. If you put the code delsing in at checkout, you save 100 bucks off the price of this thing. It's going to help so much your practice in the winter.

It will help you so much. So some things to get the coupon. We need to do delsing and other times we need to do balls.

Is that what we're boiled down to here so far? We're just giving away all sorts of stuff here at the golf with Jay delsing show. I'm jealous about that one.

That sounds good. I was just wanted to elaborate a little bit on that golf range practice time technology. I was out there with a buddy of ours Bob call a couple days ago out of TPC using some of this pocket technology. It's fascinating. It is absolutely fascinating. I'm not sure I want to see myself swing, but I know I can learn something from it and the technology is fantastic.

So I'm glad you've got a great sponsor like that. Yeah, it's really fun. Did you guys use something out in Arizona when you played? Yeah, I don't know the specifics of it, but it was definitely some launch monitor stuff. It also had video attached. You know, it was all phone related and it's just fascinating what guys you use the United never use that and the technology there and I need to get more into it because it was it was really fun.

It took him a minute, probably a minute and a half to set it up. And it's it's fascinating what what's what's possible. I'm not think we have to be a little careful on how much we video and how much we tear our games apart.

But I think it's, it can be very, very powerful, powerful information. Emperor last week, we didn't even mention on the show, but Pebble Beach, gosh, we've had so much fun up at Pebble Beach. And then this week, the Phoenix open, which is a party inside of a golf tournament inside of a party. Yeah, it's just amazing how this area rallies around that and they've got a huge Barrett Jackson our car auction a couple weeks before.

So this place is just buzzing for the better part of a month. So hard to get on a golf course, the rates they're charging for something you've played to North a couple times before. I think it's 450 or 550 to play true North now, go out there and play that golf course and you know, you say yeah, that's a lot of money, but you know what's interesting.

They're all full, you can't get a tee time. It's, it's, but it's a beautiful place. They've had great spring weather here with some rain, everything's green and gorgeous. So the conclusion of Phoenix open is going to be just absolutely a blast. Yeah, there's something special about the AT&T and then have Phoenix on the follow it right up on the week of Super Bowl is really, yeah, it's really pretty cool.

Pretty cool stuff, bro. I can remember some of the fun times we had at Pebble Beach. The Bill Murray's running around on the 18th green at Poppy Hills throwing that gal out of the grabbing a gal throw her over his shoulder, running around the 18th green that dump her in the sand trap.

Just a lot of fun seeing a lot of the celebrities and hanging around. I remember one time I walked in, you were on the range with the clubs and I walked in just to grab a quick little breakfast and I sat down with a guy and we just started talking a little bit and all this and I walked out with him. And I said, Yeah, man, have a good day. I didn't even introduce myself.

He didn't either. Somebody ran up to me real quick and goes, How long have you been friends with Justin Timberlake? And I said, Who? And he goes, Yeah, that was you were just talking to Justin Timberlake. I said I had breakfast with him. I didn't.

We just talked about golf. And he said he lived I don't know where he said la I was. And then I told my daughters that story later that night. They're like, you've got to be kidding me down. I'm like, Yeah, I didn't know who he was. He sure as hell didn't know who I was.

And neither one of us care. That's perfect. That's that's the kind of breakfast you want to have before you go out and play. Absolutely. Yeah. So all right, bro. So that's gonna wrap up the on the range segment.

But folks, don't go anywhere. John and I'll be right back with the front nine and our interview with slugger white. This is golf with Jay Delson on the range is brought to you by tailor made. I want to give a shout out to my friend Colin burnt over at the dean team of Kirkwood. Folks, if you're looking for any sort of vehicle, I know it says Volkswagen of Kirkwood Colin has a parking lot full of new and used cars.

I was just over there the other day. I bought a used VW Passat for my daughter, Joe. I talked to Colin and he is working out a new vehicle for us. But we went over and look, there is a huge selections of cars over there. My buddy Pearly that does a show with me had bought a used Toyota truck from Colin and just love the service and loved the vehicle.

That's the one for 966-0303. This is like dealing with family over there. These are great people. Collins there. His right hand person Brandy is there to do anything they can to get you in the vehicle you want.

Give them a call today. Congratulations to this year's Musial Award recipients. Good sportsmanship will again be on display at the Ascension charity classic presented by Emerson. David Toms was our first champion, but St. Louis and local charities were the real winners at the inaugural event.

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Welcome back. This is Golf with Jay Delsing. I'm your host Jay Pearly. He's with me and we are headed to the front nine. The front nine is brought to you by the Ascension Charity Classic. Hey folks, you got to get out to Norwood Hills September 5th through 11th. The best field on the Champions Tour will be playing right here in St. Louis. We were there last year.

Hopefully we're going to be there again this year, but you got to check it out. Pearly will be there lugging around, looking at videos for quick sort of instructional videos on his phone as we're playing or walking or watching whatever the hell we'll be doing, but you got to check it out. Alright, we're going to jump right into the Slugger White interview.

40 years on the PGA Tour as a tournament official. Let's go in and visit with Slugger. I am sitting down this morning with Slugger White. Slugger, thanks so much for joining me, my friend. Jay Delsing, it's great to hear your voice, buddy. Thank you.

Thanks for having me. Oh my gosh, Slugger, I'm smiling right now. I think about the very first time I met you, I got my card in 1984. As I look back on those days, Slugger, we had so much fun playing the tour, you know, just a bunch of scrappy, you know, kids, most of us just trying to figure it out and having you guys run those tournaments and everything for us. We didn't really know what we had, did we?

I don't think anybody did, Jay. I mean, it was great fun and great, you know, the camaraderie was so good, you know, it's like, I know when I first started playing, you know, first guys, you know, first people I introduced myself to were the rules officials. And that's what everybody did up until, you know, it's like probably, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago or something like that, it kind of changed.

But it was a nice, nice fit for everyone, I think. Oh, my gosh. So, Slug, we got to go back, though. You've been a lover of the game of golf. I know your dad was a Gold Glove, Golden Glove boxer, and you grew up in West Virginia. Take us back a little bit to the way you grew up and how you fell in love with the game. Well, I was from Beckley, West Virginia. And I always tell people, you know, I feel sorry for them because they didn't, they didn't grow up in Beckley, West Virginia in the 60s.

And I get a little, yes, you're right. But now, you know, it's like I started playing when I was like nine years old. My dad was, was like a plus two at that time. And we played in a little place called Black Knight Country Club, a little not home private club. I was lucky enough to play there. And in the summertime, you know, we just we got there at seven in the morning. And, you know, my mom would pick me up at, you know, nine o'clock at night, we just round and round. And, and then we had a driving range for about five or six years.

That, you know, just hit balls. And my dad was, you know, real was a good player, introduced me to the game. And, and, you know, here I am, X amount of years later. Oh, my gosh, the game is just the way this game provides is incredible. We'll talk about that in a little bit. But it's like you played that a lot of people don't know this. You played almost 100 events on the PGA Tour back in the late 70s and early 80s.

Right? Yeah, I played the 76 789. And I always say that was about three and a half years too many. So we were, you know, you know, back then, Jay, we weren't we weren't playing for any money.

I mean, the biggest tournament I played in was at Westchester. And the total purse was $500,000. And we thought man, what is this all coming to? So now heck, that's that's fourth place.

Oh, I know. It's, it's amazing. I sit there and think about the tour and think about how we used to drive to event slugger and how we used to have to rent cars once we get there and how we'd share hotel rooms and things like that we were young. And man is the tour is the tour developed since then. Big time, you know, I remember, you know, we used to stay in, you know, hotels when heck we cook out on, you know, I don't, you know, somebody have a grill that they put in the back of their car. And we'd grill out, you know, it's like, it might be five or six, you know, five or six different guys, you know, it's like, just sitting around having a couple beers cooking a steak.

So it's, it's a whole lot different now, though. So, so one of the things slugger that most people don't know about is the long, long hours you guys put in what the painstaking ideas and things that you guys have to do to mark the golf courses to do advance to get the place ready, security, all of these things. So take somebody take us through what a typical day would look like for you guys on the PGA Tour.

Well, you know, it's like, we always, we're always there an hour before the tea time, which, you know, seven o'clock p time, we're there at six, six o'clock, I was usually there, you know, it's like, I was kind of proud of myself, I was always trying to be the first one there, but I'd get there between 530 and six. And, you know, my job, you know, last last 10 or 15 years was as the tournament director, and I would just kind of oversee what was going on, if somebody needs some help, somebody would set the front nine, somebody was set the back nine, it had already been marked from the year, the week before with our advanced official, and whoever usually did the advance was kind of the we made them the boss that week, because they had all the connections with all the all the locals and all the tournament staff. And, you know, it's like, we just go through the day, after we set up, I like to say it was, it was 12 to 14 hour day every, you know, you know, probably six days a week, because well, maybe not maybe not six days a week, at least five days a week, because the program day but, you know, we traveled on Mondays.

And, you know, it's like in Tuesday morning, we'd have a meeting with talk, we'll go look at the golf course, the thing they need to be done, and then go from there, like this phase 1214 hours starting on Wednesday. You know, it's like, when I look back at the tour, when I was first on in the in the middle 80s, we get so many weather delays, you know, and back then, we didn't even have the developed weather protocols, we didn't even have an on site weather guy, you know, we were dealing with so much stuff, as it in real time. And that all fell on you guys to kind of keep juggling all that we did, you know, what Jay, we used to call the the local airports, and we talked to the to the air traffic controllers. And some of them were, you know, some of them were, you know, really good.

Most of them were really good. Some of them, we'd have to, you know, we'd invite them out to the golf course. But, you know, most most all times, we'd call them, ask them what we were looking at, if they could help us out. And it was, it was kind of a flop, you know, you know, fly by the seat of your pants at times looking at just looking at the weather. I remember, you know, Clyde Mangum, who hired me, you know, so he was a deputy commissioner, he was a term director then and just looking up in the air, just looking up in the sky said, Well, what do you think? I said, Well, I don't know, Clyde, I think didn't look very good.

He said, Okay, let's shut her down for a little while. And 99 times, you know, well, I'd say probably a good 70% of the time, we were pretty, pretty close to it, because it was, you know, it was you could see it. And, and he just kind of had he had to get a feel for it. Well, you know, when when folks are watching a typical telecast, and the skies are blue, and the things are going great, and the players are the players that are playing well are all over the TV and you're having this competition unfold. There's so much that goes on behind the scenes, just from your perspective to make this thing flow. I mean, when you think about it, slugger, all of these 1000s and 1000s of people are respecting a little bitty rope and in minding their manners and not breaching some of that stuff.

It's pretty incredible. You know, it is Jay, it's we always say, you know, golf is a gentleman's game and 99 times of 100. Most all the people that come to come to the golf tournaments are our golf fans, golf fanatics, they appreciate the game, they appreciate the players, and most of them are very, you know, very cordial, and, and they do respect that little rope that's going down each side of the fairways, which is, which is kind of nice, you know, we get an unruly fan every now and then but used to, and we had, you know, we have, you know, there was a security team that took care of that in the case there was a heckler or something like that. But, but a lot of times we had to take care of it, you know, if no wonder rules fish would have to go and take care of something. So it's always it was always something going on, you know, you had to had to worry about pretty much everything. That's not it.

No one you slugger, you are. First of all, you're, I would say in the top five people in the world, in terms of rules knowledge, and most people think, what's the big deal, the rules are golf it's not that big, the rules of golf are so difficult to understand, but there's a little bit about that especially when you get some of these crazy conditions and maybe even tell us a story about one or two of the weirder things that ever happened to you that you had to make a decision on. Well, you know, it's like, before, before the new new changes in 2019, the decision book had like 1200 decisions. It's like, and I was always smart enough to know that I wasn't smart enough to know 1200 decisions, but I could usually you know it's like, go to, you know, it's like, if you have a situation, you can go to and find find a similar situation. But you know we we relied on each other a lot I mean there's usually at least six or eight of us there. Again, not everybody had all the answers.

And we just, I don't know we just we schooled ourselves extremely well. You know, guys, you know the rules officials were really good guys smart guys knew the game Newton knew what was going on and which was a real, you know, it was a real plus, especially for the players and walk into situations you've been into before with players that you know like yourselves I mean I had I had rulings with you, and we'd, we'd, we'd talk we didn't always agree but we talk and talk it through and we go from there. You know slugger it's one of the things that is that people don't understand. And I look back at what Tiger did at the Masters when he hit the flagstick on 15 the ball goes back in the water and he took an inappropriate drop.

One of the most difficult things for a player is you're out there playing in your what let's say you're doing well like Tiger was doing he's a shot off the lead he had an incredible golf shot that gets about a break as you can possibly have. And yet slugger you have so little time to gather your thoughts to get it all back together to try to get make a decent decision. You know it's it's really interesting isn't it because when I would get into those situations, I always wanted to call you because, A, it usually gave me a little more time and B, I got your opinion, and I knew that when I called slugger white and it was going to be a 99% right and B, I couldn't go wrong by listening to you. Well that was the good thing Jane I appreciate you saying that but we always said that you know it's like, if you're in doubt call because if, if you make a mistake, you have to pay for it. If one of the officials made a mistake. You don't have to pay for it you know that the mistake was made, you live up to it and, and everybody knows you know it's like that anyone that thinks an official doesn't make a mistake is mistaken, you know, it happens you know you don't like it to happen.

But through everyone's career you know it's like you have a couple of, you know, brain fades or whatever and, and make a, it doesn't happen often I have to say you know it's like it's been, it's been pretty pretty good. Hey slugger I gotta tell you this funny story I was playing at the Quad Cities at the old golf course at Oakwood, I think, and what a lot of folks don't realize is that as a player you're entitled to call an official on a certain situation and get a second opinion, if the first one. If you think there might be something, you know, someone made a mistake. So I can remember I had a cast from a burrowing animal that my ball was sitting on, and I called Vaughn movies out there who's great guy from down in Houston and Vaughn said, you don't get a drop from that and I said, one that that is a burrowing animal that causes thing to raise off the ground and my ball sitting right on it. And he, he said no. And I said can I please get a second opinion he said of course and he drove off just like you're supposed to do he didn't hang around, he drove off and Arvin again who came in and Arvin was, as you know, just a terrific man from, I think from Jackson, Mississippi and another dear friend, and he said, I said, you know, Arvin I've got this condition he said looks like your ball sitting on the cast from some sort of burrowing animal I said, I think I'm entitled to relief and he said and so I took a drop and I can remember seeing Vaughn a couple weeks later, and he said what happened over there did you, did you, did you ever get a second opinion I said I did and I, and I did get relief and he said who gave it. You know who did you who came out and he said it was Arvin, and I remember he went over to Arvin and started calling Arvin Santa Claus after that one. I was happy where that big red hat was.

Exactly, exactly. So, you know, we had so much fun and you know what sluggers I look back. There was a sense of community with us back then.

No question about it, Jay. It was, it was just a big, you know, and it's still, it's still, it's still a family, but it was, it was, it seemed like there was a lot more camaraderie that you know way back then, you know, we go back, you know, we'll go back a lot of years, I don't know, Jay, it's just it's different now, you know, you, I don't think, you know, officials don't hang with with players. The good thing about you know when I started I had played so I knew probably 90% of the, you know, the players. So we, you know, it's like we'd every now and then we would go to dinner or something like that or do something but it's different, it's different now. Oh, absolutely. If I was sitting in a restaurant and you walked in with a had dinner together 100% of the time I mean everybody was kind of a gypsy. Yes, that's exactly right every single time.

I'm an old school guy slug I think you are as well I just think, you know, I don't want to turn into that old guy that you know things all the new stuff is terrible but when I look back at it. The, the things I learned, and the people I met were just priceless and I would slugger, how important was it that you knew the game and you knew how to play the game and you played at a high level to get you to the heights that you accomplish the rules official I think that's really important. I think it was huge. And I think that was one of the reasons I knew when I was hired. Dean Beeman was the commissioner and and he was looking for ex players for that reason, you know that you you've been in the situation. You knew the guy I mean, most of us have played together playing mini tours together, and we, you know, it was just a nice transition to in fact, you know, to get to get into that in those situations.

So it was, you know, it's like it was a little more respect I think for guys that did play and knew the players, and they knew that, that you knew the game, and that was that was a big part of it. So that's going to wrap up the front nine don't go anywhere, we'll have the back nine and the conclusion of the slugger white interview. This is golf with Jay Delson Marcon appliance parts company of St Louis, Missouri would like to recognize and applaud the thousands of companies and volunteers who donated their time and money to make wreaths across America program, a national success on December 18 2021 wreaths across America is a national wreath laying program to decorate the graves of our beloved veterans and national cemeteries across the country. Marcon appliance parts is proud to be a local sponsor and send volunteers to participate at Jefferson barracks National Cemetery.

For more details visit wreathsacrossamerica.org Marcon appliance parts company is based in St Louis, Missouri, and it's the largest distributor of major appliance parts in North America, and a proud distributor of General Electric parts. I'm Jay Delson here from my friends at SSM Health physical therapy, St Louis golf Expo is March 18 through 20th signaling spring is just around the corner, SSM Health physical therapy will have members of their golf program at the expo to help answer your questions. Mention my name to receive special pricing on their golf screen and have a chance to win a free K vest evaluation.

These evaluations are awesome. There's 80 locations in the St Louis area call 80518 1626 or visit them on the web at SSM physical therapy.com your therapy, our passion David Toms was our first champion, but St Louis and local charities were the real winners at the Ascension charity classic presented by Emerson record setting attendance. Some of golf's greatest legends and exciting finish.

And with the help of our partners, and all of you, we were able to donate more than $800,000 to area charities. Thank you St Louis, and get ready for professional golf to return September 5 through the 11th 2022. Hey guys, I know you've heard golf is booming and it really is are more people playing golf today than ever before.

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Hey, welcome back. This is golf with Jay delsing. I'm your host Jay Pearlys with me we're headed to the back nine the back nine is brought to you by our friends at ProAm golf folks, go get fitted. You've got to get fitted call CJ 314-647-8054. It costs you $40, go get it if you buy something from them the world of price into the club they won't even charge you ProAm golf usa.com CJ is the best in town.

You'll love the experience you've got to go get fitted, I just did it. Pearlys committed to doing it. All right, but we are going to the second half interview of the 40 year PGA Tour official career and veteran slugger white slugger tell us about this story your very first ruling, when you made the transition from player to rules official out in San Diego I think it was with jack Nicholas I love this story you've told me this when I, one of the first times I met you and, and I just thought it was fantastic. Well, it was funny because Gordy glands was was the official that I was kind of under his wing, we get this call but there's there's a ruling out on on 12, I think it was a 12 hole at Torrey fines, and we always asked whoever's calling ruling to ask who the player was.

Well, a lot of the players didn't like that because they felt like there was some kind of a that they get some preferential treatment. That wasn't the reason we call it like we want to know who we go look for and go to. So you can hear me coming from miles away, because the, these cards that we had and the, the, the washboard that I was you know going down the end, and I get there and, and I talked to jack early in the week, because he asked me about my transition we were talking, so they say you know it's like they call for jack Nicholas and, and Gordy says Go ahead, you can handle it. I said, you sure.

Yeah, you got it. So I'm as nervous as anything, obviously so I get down there and there's jack standing there, and I walked in I said, jack and I help you. You see what is this, as he looked in those steely blue eyes and I said well jack that's a French drain and we treated as ground under repair, and he looked right at me Jay and he said, Are you sure, and I looked back at him and I said, I'm positive.

He said okay where do I drop it, and I tell you what I drove away. And just thinking about and I remind reminded him that, you know, prior to, and during you know it's like, and I can kind of, you know when I was finishing up last year, I had a nice nice little ceremony there at the, at the memorial, and I reminded jack of that and he just kind of, he kind of laughed and he said, Hey, come here, give me a hug. He's been, I mean, he's just such a, he's that whole family is such a wonderful family that have been great friends, you know, for the last, the last 40 years. Oh my gosh, right, you know slugger How important is it though when you especially going to the greatest of all time you. How important is it to be this guy that's not waffling that's not afraid of the situation. That's not that's unsure, all that plays into that and I feel like I know that there were certain players that would try to take advantage of the rules officials and try to intimidate them in some of those situations like that. Yeah, I think, I think, I think they do, you know, it's like in, and that's okay. I think if you go in, I think the big thing Jay always went into ruling saying, what can I help you with. I wasn't there to say you know it's like, you know, it's like, but it was always was always held the rules were always there, and still are there held there there to help.

There's nothing you know it's like and that was always just my entrance, and I would go in and that's the first thing I would say how can I help. And I think that puts every everybody kind of at ease. And every now and then you know you get somebody was didn't agree with you, you know, you kind of talk it through and if somebody want a second opinion, shoot, we'd get a form. Yeah, and it's, it's one of these things though that as a player, you know you're going through these situations there's a lot of egos as we know out there and having someone strong on that end like yourself like Mark Russell like Glenn Tate, like Cagle at some of the great guys in the history of the rules officials, it's to me it was really important, and it was also reassuring, I think it was, it was the big thing Jay and I agree, and I think when you saw someone that you were familiar with that you knew what what was going on, it kind of put, I think it puts players at ease, and, and that's what it is because usually it's a tense situation, you know it's like it. There's money involved, you know you're playing you're playing for you're playing for your livelihood so it's, I think it's a nice ease factor. When you do see someone that come in that you do know that you do know that knows the game and those the rules of the game. No 100% and someone that played at a high level few is a really big deal for the players for your talk about just a little bit how fun it was, you know the tour schedule, you know the West Coast wing is how we used to start the tour, you would go to these places you were out there for almost 40 years, you had to be, you had to have families out there that you considered extended family.

Oh, there's no question, I mean all over the country Jay. I was, you know, lucky enough to, you know, to meet up with people and and became really close friends with especially like you said on the West Coast, Texas, Florida, you know everywhere you go. You always had these these relationships with people, and it was nice. And what was great about. I think our job was, you were going somewhere where they had been looking forward to you getting there for the past year, and everybody was open arms everybody was smiling. It was, it's a great positive positive environment.

Every week. I mean, that's what was so good about it, you know, sugar when I got to play in the AT&T tournament for the first time I got to play with Tommy john I got to play with some really great kind of famous people that the game provided these entrances and introductions for me, and I can't say enough about it. Can you tell that story about George C Scott because I think you got to play with the great actor in pebble beach your first year there didn't you, I did jack lemon was my partner one year. Oh my and, and we had, and we had George C Scott in the group, and I'm trying to think who was playing, who was partner was neither here nor there and I play with Dick Martin one year so I you know just like you said you got to play with some really, you know, big time celebrities Well, after I quit playing.

I was a pebble beach, and I did see George C Scott walking across the parking lot. I said, you know what, I need to go say hello to this guy he won't remember me but I go say hello. So I walked up, and I said, George C Scott I said, slugger white How you doing, we were, you know we were paired together, several years ago here and he looked, he looked right at me.

And he says, Carlton, where have you been. He remembered you know it's like happy remember my real name was unbelievable. And we talked for a few minutes and he said, he said I just was talking about you with Dick Martin the other day down at Bel Air, and he said we wonder where you went, and then I, you know, I say we talked to probably four or five minutes, and he was just a wonderful guy really a nice man but it was just I was flattered that he will remember who I was. It was, it was really good and slugger, put aside all the billions of dollars that the game is raised now and the relationships that it forges, and the introduction for people like you and I into that world of say maybe Hollywood and even though you and I aren't necessarily all that impressed with those guys they're there to find out that they're normal people to was really cool as a young person, no question, Jay, I mean they they were you know they're just down to earth people you know it's like they get out of the limelight, and they enjoy themselves, it was nice to see that. Jack lemon like I said I had. He was my partner, and we played, we played three days together, and I think we missed, we missed the cut not the plank I think we missed the cut by shot.

He made three at 16 at Cyprus laying it up over there Nick, you know, and you got it up and down from over there. It was, I mean, it was like, it was a big thrill to him, and it was a thrill for me to watch it so we had a great time, he's a wonderful wonderful guy. Yeah, this is golf with Jay delsing I'm visiting with former PGA Tour player and rules official tournament director on the PGA Tour slugger white sugar let's talk a little bit about the opportunity that's been. That's been going around now on the tour it's a lot of the talk about this new Greg Norman is a commissioner of this new tour and they've asked you to help them.

Yeah, Greg and I have been friends for probably probably 40 years, and are 3030 years anyway. He called me probably about six or eight months ago, maybe maybe earlier than that, and told me there was something going on, and he wanted me to, you know, he knew that, you know that I was, I was retired, and he asked me if I would consider, you know it's like coming out and heading up the, the rules side. If you know when when this when this when this tour started, so he said he said you know he said you and Shelley talk about it. And, and we talked about and so you know I hung up the phone with him and I went to Shelley my wife and I said you know well what do you think she said well, she said, I'd love for you see me do something that traveling all the time, you know, she just, she just didn't want me to morph into my chair that I'm sitting in right.

And you know what, I mean it's, I tell you what it's easy to get comfortable, you know it's like so. But I called Greg back a couple days later and I said look I said, I think I need to need to talk to you about this I consider doing this. So and I you know it's like, I had nothing to do, obviously with the start of this, with this of this tour, but they needed some, they needed some help with the, you know, as far as rules go, it's basically for the players, I mean, and for him you know it's like to give him some, some comfort, peace of mind for someone to run it.

Exactly. So Greg like I say Greg and I and then. So, had a couple meetings and then sign on with them at the end of last year, we'll just see what goes from here. Yeah, it's, it's gonna be exciting. It'd be good. It's very interesting isn't it slugger to see, you know how, how global the games become right and there's controversy with everything and I know that the PGA Tour has got their, their dander up a little bit because there may be a player or two that got to sign up here and then what's going to happen. I'm interested to see how it all plays out. Well, I kind of will be. It'll be nice to, you know, again, I think I'm in the dark a little bit about what's going on, and that way I don't have to say I don't know what's going on, when I really do so I'm just, I'm just waiting to see. Most of this right now is in Asia, the looks like the Asian tour is going I think there's, I think they've added like, like $200 million to 10 events or something like that.

So, I may be headed Asia for a little while, who knows we'll just wait and see what goes. The thing that strikes me slugger is the amount of money that that the police and the, and the ladies are playing for these days, it's incredible. But, you know, it really is Jay, like I said, back in 76, I played for half a million dollars and I thought was you know that was a total total purse, and I thought, Good Lord, what are we going to come to now, and. But I just saw where the, the ladies tour, they're getting a little bump in in theirs and I'm glad for them, because they, you know, they're, they're really good players over their tours is bump bump the bump the prize money up, I think, I think Greg always said, you know, competition is good, and I think it'll be, I think it'd be good for everybody. Yeah, it's interesting it's kind of what our country's founded on, and you wind up getting, you know, we see people get territorial but it sure makes you sharp and it's really going to make the PGA Tour to look at a certain thing to try to get their ducks in a row. If nothing else, I think, I think you're probably right Jay Exactly.

I could say I'm on the, I'm on the dark side of that and that's, and I kind of like being there like I spent most of my life there in the dark slug is not that big a deal for me. Well slugger I so appreciate your time, I your friendship over the years I I've sitting here, talking to you with smiles on my face there's a half a dozen stories I'd love to tell the people but we can't do that, that were just priceless for me I appreciate you jumping on and we'll be looking for you with this new venture and best best of luck to you my friend, Jay Thank you've been a great friend of mine for a long long time and we will continue and let's stay in touch and I really appreciate your time. And, and, you know, asked me to come in and talk with you for a while. All right, so pro, I don't know I just love that interview. We told a lot of stories, fairly off color off the air, but really, really an impressive guy.

Well, you got to be good friends with him, and I certainly enjoyed the stories, but it brings up so many memories of getting really good I can for you out there. What's the worst. What's the toughest maybe not the worst what's the what was the toughest ruling situation you ever found yourself in because when you were talking about that, you know that that official needs to always keep their heads because the players can be who knows what emotional roller coaster they might be on trying to make a cut, trying to keep their tour card trying to make some money, whatever the case might be but what's the toughest one that you were ever involved in.

Well, it happened in Vegas. I was playing well I had this weird situation, and I had my ball sitting in this area that was, you know, just not right and I called for an official, and not only did he tell me no, which was fine. He also gave me a couple of editorial comments on the fact that he thought it was I was wasting his time. Well, let me let me clarify for what you just said to the listening audience.

The first ruling that he gave you that you didn't like you said was fine. Well, it wasn't fine because you were never fine with any any of that kind of stuff people know that kind of know but I mean I can understand I can be told decision or an idea before the golf course with you. Yeah, it's the wrong way to go.

It's definitely definitely the wrong way to go. Okay, let's pick this up on the Michael about your 19th hole. This will wrap up the back nine but don't go to wear pro and I'll be back more slugger white golf with Jay dalsing. Hey, I know you've heard a lot about club fitting but I need you to go visit my friends and pro em golf. There are family owned and operated golf discount shop in St. Louis has been operating for over 40 years.

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Grab your friends a cold one and pull up a chair. We're on to the 19th hole on golf with Jay Delsing. Hey welcome back. Golf with Jay Delsing. Jay here. John's with me.

We're headed to the Michelob Ultra 19th hole. I got one open. Pearly.

Man, you're getting good at that. Really good. Really nice. All right. So guys. Hey, I got it. I got it. I got it.

Go ahead. Jump in there. I know you've been dying. So many times I'm trying to remember where we were. There was some kind of a tire print and you wanted to get a ruling for the tire print and I can see you weren't going to get it. And I can see this guy coming over and I'm thinking, hey Jay, let's just hit the shot. Let's just hit the shot. We don't need to go through the ramifications of what's going to happen in the next five to 15 minutes with you busting this guy's chops trying to get the drop that you want. And you looked at me like, kind of like, hey, I need a good argument for a couple minutes to get my game back in place here and stuff like that.

I wish I could remember what hole it was, but of course it was. But you did not get the ruling you wanted. We knew you weren't going to get the ruling you wanted. You knew you weren't going to get the ruling you wanted, but you were looking for a little tussle to give yourself a breather. Yeah, I needed to slow it all down because obviously when I hit the ball in a tire track, I wasn't down the middle of the fairway, was I, Pearl? No, no you weren't.

I do remember one time in the Champions Tour Qualifier, I think. Oh, I knew you were going to bring that up. Yep.

Oh my gosh, so go ahead. Why don't you tell it how you remember it and then I'll clarify how it happened. I hit my ball to the right. My ball was suspended in a bush to the right of the fairway, but I was standing on the cart path to hit the shot.

Right, Pearl? Yeah. And I called an official out to see if I got relief for that because I was standing on the cart path.

There was no other way around me hitting this shot other than standing on the cart path, as I recall. He thought if you just were going to shake the tree, you needed to be standing on the cart path while you were shaking the tree. Yeah, probably. He had an entirely different opinion and also went into some sort of editorial.

The editorials are what pissed me off. It's not necessarily, it's like coming up and like, hey, can I get a ruling? And he'll be like, no, and you suck too. You're not that good.

I can't believe you hit it so far offline. You know what I mean? That's the sort of thing that used to really tick me off. What's the worst ruling that you saw somebody else get to their benefit or against them? Ernie Els won the U.S. Open at Oakmont when they gave him a drop from the crane of a camera instead of moving the camera. He was playing at Oakmont. He got a drop.

I couldn't believe. The other one was at the TPC where they gave Sergio a drop and didn't let him take a lost ball when he duck hooked one on number 10 at the TPC. He said his ball stuck up in the tree. You have to find that ball in that tree. You have to see that ball. You have to identify that ball. You can't take an unplayable lie with your ball up in a pine tree, a palm tree, unless you can identify it. It should have been a lost ball and a two-stroke penalty, and he got away with one there. Well, how do they justify that?

Jay, how does it work afterwards? Do they tend to review these calls and clarify them for players and that type of thing, or does it just go and get swept under the carpet? Oh, they do. They do. I got to tell you the funniest thing that ever happened to me, but yeah, they do review, and the rules officials, to their credit, will come back out and say to you the next day or whenever, we screwed that up.

We made a mistake. That's why, as a player, if I just say to you, John, I'm going to take a drop for an unplayable lie, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and we find out that I was incorrect, I get disqualified for an incorrect drop and playing from an incorrect place. If the official gives you their blessing to do it, you're totally cool with it. You can do it.

You can do whatever they say. That's why, and I think Slugger even mentioned that in the interview, you're always better off calling for an official to include them in the ruling. Well, that's true, but as a spectator, man, I hate the delays. There's so many times, it seems to us, maybe it's not as a spectator, that that's a simple drop. You guys know the rules.

You've been around the game for forever. Why do you have to pull in the official? But that's the reason.

There's tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line. You might know the drop, but maybe you take the wrong angle. Maybe you thought it was two clubs and it's one club.

Maybe you dropped it and it rolled more than you thought or you didn't know how far it could roll or whatever. So there's these little idiosyncrasies within the quote easy rulings that could make a difference too. Isn't that about right?

No, there's no question. I mean, Slugger said in the interview that there were over 1,200 pages in the decision to golf. I mean, there are so many different circumstances, but bro, my rookie year on tour, I'm playing in legit classic Abilene, Texas. Fairway Oaks, where Charles Cootie is the head pro, and it's blowing 200 miles an hour. It is howling.

And I need money to keep my card. And I play a really good round on Saturday and move up into the top probably 15 or so. On Sunday, it is blowing hard and I am not playing that great. And I'm hanging in there, get to 18, par 5, straight into the wind, water all the way down the right. And I'm just aiming this thing left and chinking dunking this thing down. And I hit it on the green about, I don't know, 15, 20 feet from the hole for birdie. And I just tossed from like three feet to my caddy, my ball. Well, he drops it, goes to pick it up and kicks it into the water.

Now it falls off the edge of the green. Wait a second. Wait a second. Wait a second.

Give me a second here. Please clarify that wasn't me. No, that wasn't. Oh, okay.

Thank you. No, that was not you. It was not you. His name was John, though. John, my caddy.

Anyway, there's 20,000 people around the green. I'm playing with Jeff Sluman and Danny Edwards. Never forget it. We all just kind of laugh it off.

He gives me another ball. I putt down there, missed, tap it in. I make my par. I make about $4,000, which was a big check, especially when I needed it to keep my card.

I wound up keeping my card by a couple hundred bucks that year. Come to find out, I go in, sign the card. Come to find out I'm playing a practice round with Weavey Peyton Pavin at San Antonio the last week of the year. Wade Cagle, the head official, comes out to me and goes, explain to me what happened to you on 18. I said, when?

He goes, last week. And I had no idea what he was going after. And I said, what happened on the green? He goes, with your ball and your caddy.

And I said, oh, yeah, I threw my caddy the ball. He dropped it. He went to pick it up. He kicked it. And it fell over the edge into the water.

And he goes, then what'd you do? I said, I got another ball out of my bag. I set the ball down. I putted it in. I tried to put it in. I missed. And I tapped in. And I wound up making a par.

And that was it. He brings out the rule book. And now all of a sudden, pearl, my heart is down somewhere under my shoe, under the ground. And I'm thinking, oh, God, I'm going to lose this money. And he says, that's a violation of this rule.

Here's why. Here's what you should have done. And I said, son of a gun, Wade. I said, it was right in front of Jeff Sluman, who was we were all laughing about the situation.

And I'm thinking, I'm losing this money and I'm not going to keep my card. And he goes, well, I go, what do we do? He goes, yeah, it was a penalty. I said, well, my caddy would have been submerged looking for that ball. He would have not come up until he came up with a title of three. I promise you. I promise you. And if he didn't do it, I would have jumped in after it.

And Wade said, but to your advantage, the tournament's over and official. And the money's yours. And but next time, don't do that. And I was like, holy cow.

So the first thing I did was find Sluman and find David Edwards. And I said, guys, did you know this rule? And they said, we had no idea. And I said, I should have. That should have been a penalty. And they're like, what happened? I said, the tournament's over.

It's official. And nothing happened. But it was a definite violation.

And they said, we didn't know the rule either. Not one person in the crowd. Not one person on TV.

It probably wasn't even on TV because it was me. But weird. That's going to do it. We're out of time, man. Oh, boy.

Okay. We got some great interviews coming up. We got Art Shue with Rapsodo.

We got Maria Palazzola. We got Christian Heavens coming up. Lots of fun stuff coming up. Tom Watson's coming on the show. So don't go anywhere.

Stay tuned next week. Hit them straight, St. Louis. Boy, is this housing market tight right now.

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