Brett Moomey--Golf With Jay Delsing

This is golf with Jay Delsingh. A two-time college All-American at UCLA. A participant in nearly 700 PGA Tour events. Seven professional wins to his credit. Over 30 years of professional golf experience.

This is Golf with Jay Delsingh. What sticks out in your mind is exceptionally brutal, exceptionally fun, because we always had a lot of fun. Oh, we always had a lot of fun. I'm not sure how many events stand out, but situations stand out. And unfortunately, most of them I kind of throw you under the bus a little bit. Yeah, you do. Not a little bit. But I remember, so let's not throw you under the bus.

Let's remember some of the just absolutely incredibly low rounds that you shot. Canadian Tour, playing up in Canada for the PGA Tour. Fairview, what was that course called? Northview? Northview, yeah. Northview out there. Barely made the cut.

Squeaked it in there somehow. And then the last day, teeing it up in the wind, the rain, and the dark, because the light hadn't quite come up yet. But at least we made the cut. And you go out and shoot a 62 in the worst conditions ever.

There's no way I would have broke 85 when I was at the top of my game. And you went from absolutely nowhere, like why are you even here, to top 10, which was absolutely spectacular. So I remember that one as well. And then probably the single best round I've ever seen you shoot. Again, I can't remember the golf course. It was down in Alabama. It was the best round I ever played in my life, I think.

Down in Abalama, at a place where nobody can shoot a good sore. You beat the field by seven, I think, that day. How many times does that happen in anybody's career, that they beat the field by seven? So what would your father call it, penthouse or outhouse? He did that all the time. Oh my gosh. We formatted the show like a round of golf. We kind of took a wild curveball here. But we formatted the show like a round of golf, and this is the On the Range segment. It's brought to you by our friends at TaylorMade Golf.

And we thank Jeff Thornhill so much for the support. We're giving away TP5 golf balls. Send me an email, jatjdelsongolf.com. We can get you some golf balls.

I'll put you in the drawing. John, the conversation we had, we've had so many funny conversations, but the conversation down in Louisiana, when I came off the course just feeling lower than low and go, I don't think I'm ever going to make another cut again. And you look at me and go, I don't either. I'll never forget. I'm like, I'm just going to take my car and drive it in a ditch. But we laughed so hard after that because I make a quadruple bogey somewhere in the middle of one of those rounds and want to finish in third or fourth in the golf tournament. A triple bogey coming down the stretch when you could have won the whole darn thing.

Yeah, we've laughed about that hundreds of times since. Does anybody out there, anybody out there, when the player hits it in the water or there's a problem, does anybody ever think of the caddy? Because it's brutal on the caddy. I mean, it is just... I don't.

No, that's my point. I know you love me somewhere in there, but I don't think anybody ever thinks about that. Trust me. When I went through tour school, almost made it to one year, I was kind of actually pumped to some degree. One, it was over because it was so brutal.

Two, I got close, so that was a big step up for me to get that close. My caddy's crying on the sidelines. He's sitting on the golf bag crying. And I'm thinking, what are you crying about, dude?

He's like, I want it so bad for you to make it. And plus, not in my situation with you, but it means a lot to their careers, how the player plays. A lot of these guys have families out there. It is their career. It's their income and that kind of stuff. So when that guy kind of blows it coming down the stretch and costs himself a quarter of a million dollars, that was 20, 30, 40 grand out of the caddy's pocket, too.

So we want to keep that in mind. So from now on, let's quit worrying about the millionaires. Although a lot of these caddies are millionaires. Let's worry about the poor caddy who's...

The money's just flown out of his pocket, too. We're off on a tangent here. I love it. It's a good tangent.

Why not? Hey, it's our tangent. So I also want to thank Bob and Kathy. We're going to skip your... I hope you don't mind.

We're going to skip your social media report this week. Oh, shoot. I was really fine.

Yeah, you were. We'll have our decoder ring on next week when you give it so we can figure out what that means. But we do want to thank Bob and Kathy Donahue at Donahue Painting and Refinishing 314-805-2132. Kathy Donahue is now going through this color certification. She's going to be able to help people out in numerous, numerous ways.

All right. I've got an interview this week with Brett Mumey. Brett, first of all, is a great guy. He is the president of the Gateway Section. So the Gateway Section is a group of clubs here in the Midwestern area. It's all defined by the PGA of America.

It goes up as far as Quincy, you know, and it goes south and it goes in the state, Metro Eastside, obviously, as well. And Brett has been the president of that for the last couple of years and just doing a great job. He's the head, was the head golf professional over at Old Hickory and just took the job at Algonquin Country Club.

So he's moving across the river. Algonquin Country Club is in the middle of Webster-Kirkwood area, beautiful area. Kind of a short golf course, little tricky, but really strong membership over there.

They do a really nice job. So a neat opportunity for Brett. More importantly, John, let's talk a little bit about what it's like being the head pro and what that all means.

Let me throw out to you, I'm glad you just brought that up. What does it take for him to get to where he is? From the time of whether it was college golf or an interest in golf and that kind of stuff. And I don't remember all the, again, it's the golf with Jay Delsing's show, so we'll get close on what it really takes. We don't let facts get in the way of a good story. But there's a whole apprentice program that you have to qualify and go through and a whole bunch of education.

What does that last for? Is that a two, three, four year type of a thing? Yeah, I mean it takes a lot of time, it takes some money, and it takes a lot of effort to get through that.

They have made these qualifications much, much more stringent than when we were kids. And for him to do all the things that he's doing, he was a college player, he walked on his college golf team, he's a good player. He cares. That's one thing that I love about him. He cares and he's trying to grow the game.

He is not trying. He is growing the game. He's doing some really cool stuff with videos where he's sending out a video each over a short period of time to keep people abreast with what's going on, what's current.

You know, and he's just using some of the modern technology to send the message and to carry the water for the section, and I think it's great. Well, I think it's good that there is a lot of qualifications to go through between the apprentice program and then the different classes of status beyond that. Because at the end of the day, these guys are running a business. There's an awful lot of responsibility. It's super hard because how many businesses have three, four, five hundred bosses, which is really what your situation is when you're in a private course. So if you're not a savvy individual, if you don't really understand customer service, if you can't really get your own voice heard, if you will, and understand how you position into this whole business, you're running retail, you're running the outside of the shop, the inside of the shop, you're a buyer, you're managing, supporting, working with three, four hundred memberships, if you will. Yes, there's a board, but there again, that's a special quality task, just being on the board. I haven't gone through the program before, but I've been on the board, and I've seen a little bit what it takes for a pro to be able to manage all that.

It's a monster undertaking. That doesn't include junior golf. It doesn't include what he's gotten involved in relative to the section type of things. And I'm assuming until he's accomplished all those other things at a high level, you can't be running the section.

No, there's no question about that. I mean, first of all, you're never going to carry the vote. You're not going to have the respect of your peers. And so working your way up the ladder, so to speak, and getting knocking those little notches off as you move along, it says a lot about what he's done. And I got to tell you, from the way that I grew up and watching assistant pros, and you don't start as a head pro. You start as the assistant pro. And what that means is you're doing a lot of closing.

So you're closing the shop at night. You're making sure the range is picked. All these really super, super glamorous things are what you inherit as you start on those lower rungs of that ladder to move up to get to what Brett's done. And in a lot of cases, you got into golf, the golf business, because you like to play golf.

Well, guess what? When you're an apprentice, when you're an assistant, when you're a below the class A head professional, often you're not playing a lot of golf, which I think is a mistake. I think a lot of the best head pros and best directors actually make sure that their guys do play and give them opportunity because they need to stay in touch with that part of the game. Because a lot of times that's where their true passion emanates from. Oh, 100% Also, Jen, the members really, really enjoy having a pro and their staff that can play the game. They really and truly do. They really, truly do. And you want to keep members coming back for more and, you know, get out and play with them and show them a little bit of something and show them that you can play. I think that's a big deal.

Well, fair or not, it adds credibility, doesn't it, Jay? If the pro can play, it's an absolutely, it's a huge deal. I feel for the ones that maybe weren't at any point terribly accomplished to begin with. Now they're running a business. They don't get to play much yet.

They're kind of put up on that stage from time to time and have to play. That's a tough position to be in. Oh, it is. I mean, just we talked about it last night. I mean, just the little bit that I, I went from playing seven days a week to playing two or three days a week and it's amazing how much more the game owns you now.

And even when I practice all the time, it's still, I just rented it a little longer and for a little longer spurts, it still wound up, you know, whipping my ass. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a great game. What's really interesting, we talked last week about the Advocate PGA Tour event that's coming to St. Louis that Ascension is sponsoring, that Daugherty Business Solutions is a presenting sponsor. And it's giving folks this opportunity, John, to be involved in the game.

The underserved, some of the African American population, some of the folks that haven't had as many opportunities to get involved in there. And this is just another aspect of how great this game is and what it can provide. It doesn't have to be at the PGA Tour level. It doesn't even have to be at the mini tour level. These guys are growing the game here and they're taking care of their communities, they're supporting their families, and they're also playing the game.

It's a different level, but it's more important in terms of getting people involved and loving it and keeping the game alive. So, I mean, these guys are the guys in the trenches. Yeah, a lot of stories behind that. Maybe that's what we should try to do to after that event, try to grab a couple of those guys and get them in the kind of hear more of their stories.

We've heard Christians, but there's got to be a lot of other great stories that this all happened. Do you know how did this happen? How did this come about? I'm sorry to throw that out there because I'm not sure if you know.

No, it's been going on for 13 years. Ken's last name, who is the CEO of this tour, but he's an African American fellow that started this tour about 13 years ago and just wanted to give folks that haven't had the opportunity to chance. Slowly, but you want to talk about a labor of love to I mean, he's not making any money off it easy. In fact, when he was speaking in Algonquin a couple weeks ago, he said his wife keeps reminding him.

Why are you doing this when you don't get paid anything and why are you spending so much time because he really cares because it gets me out of bed, honey. That's why that's why that's awesome. Yeah. And so at the farmers insurance, so they they they went without the program on Wednesday, they started the event on Wednesday finished on Saturday and on Sunday, they televised the an a PGA event on at Torrey Pines, and they had it was awesome. I don't know if you remember Tim O'Neill.

He's an African American guy. We played golf. I played golf with him gosh on.

I think it was on a nationwide event years and years ago, but really a good guy smashes it. Well, those guys vaguely remember. He was in the last group and had a chance to win and I'm like, it's awesome that he is chasing his dream and playing well. And now, you know, john, it's just another aspect have an ascension support this event in St. Louis bring in new opportunity for people in this region, and then across the country to get the St. Louis to showcase their events. You never know whom you're going to meet when you get here, and maybe a new sponsor, maybe a new opportunity for these kids, or, you know, you also know the game and this is really important by providing these opportunities, something can click with a golfer, and they can go on runs that can get them on on tour. In fact, I know that can happen, you're reading my mind that is that's so true and that's why these guys always fighting for that opportunity because you just don't know when it's going to click. We've talked about it on the show before there's, there's many times when it's that last shot the guy said, you know, if I don't qualify here if I don't make this potter if I can't move on to the next week. And some of these end up being absolutely huge names and that happens at all of sports and that's why I want to keep sticking with it.

Absolutely. I'm going to read the tip of the cap here it's brought to you by my buddy Colin burnt at the dean team Volkswagen of Kirkwood 314-966-0303 folks, some dealers don't have cars. Colin's got cars he's got a he's got a parking lot of new cars, used cars, burly you've got a car, a vehicle, a truck from from Colin I have a new vehicle. I just love mine too.

That's fantastic. So I'm tipping my cap today to all the high school men's and women's golf coaches out there that are already ramping up their sport for their teams are running tryouts, they're getting out there the weather's dicey. Sometimes the grounds frozen it's not a you remember spring golf in the Midwest is can be a disaster so my hats off to them.

And I know we all can't wait for this weather to turn just a little more and we'll be out every day. So that is the tip of the cap this week and it's brought to you by Colin and the dean team of Kirkwood 314-966-0303. Come back for the front nine. We've got an interview with Brett Mumey. This is golf with Jay Delson. On the range with Jay Delson is brought to you by tailor made. This is golf with Jay Delson.

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That's givetosmhealth.org. This is Golf with Jay Delsing. The front nine is presented by the Ascension Charity Classic, September 5 through the 11th at Norwood Hills Country Club.

For tickets, ascensioncharityclassic.com. Good morning, this is Golf with Jay Delsing. I'm your host, Jay, and I am sitting down this morning with my buddy, the president, the board of directors of the PGA Gateway Section and the head golf professional at Old Hickory Golf Club, Brett Mumey. Brett, thanks for joining me this morning, man. Jay, thanks for having me. Looking forward to getting to know your listeners a little bit better and tell them a little bit about everything going on in the Gateway Section and myself.

Yeah, absolutely. I thought it would be so fun to have you on the show and talk just a little bit. Talk a little bit about your background and how you got involved in the game. I love the stories on how we kind of golf lifers kind of got hooked. Yeah, I mean, I grew up playing just about every sport. Being a Catholic schoolboy, I obviously played a lot of soccer and little league baseball, and golf was kind of the afterthought, really, something I enjoyed doing, but was definitely not my strength. And then right as I got into high school days, I started working with Ed Schwent, who I have the fortune to work with here at Old Hickory as well, and got involved with his junior golf program over at MidRivers Golf Links and just kind of clicked from there, burred into a chance to walk on the golf team at the University of Central Missouri and be able to go to school. And compete and work on my game and kind of all along, knowing this was what I wanted to do, become a PGA professional and not wear a suit to work every day and get to come to the golf course every day was something I really was interested in and kind of got my start in the golf business at Bogey Hills under Bob Jones and John Prangy. And fortunately for me, right place, right time, ended up as an assistant golf professional at Bell Reef Country Club right before the Senior US Open was there in 2004 and spent a great 10 years there working for Mike Tucker and Joe Schwent for my first few years and even more of a love for the game and the business of the game and being around the club was a great thing. So the last eight years I've spent here at Old Hickory Golf Club, which has been a tremendous opportunity and again, kind of a coming home moment for me being a St. Peter's kid and, you know, getting to work with Ed every day and tell our story about being a junior golfer of his was a cool thing to tell to our members and their kids. When I think about the names that you're associating with and hanging out with and learning from Joe Schwent, one of my favorite people in the entire world, Mike Tucker, another rock star golf professional here in town and then Ed, we could fill two hours of show talking about Ed and his accomplishments and I pulled up the board of directors on the Gateway section on the online and I see you wearing a sport coat, you got a big smile on your face because I know you're going to get to peel that sport coat off pretty soon.

Yeah, it's definitely one of the perks of the job, not having to dawn that every single day, but sometimes you got to dress for your role and, you know, being section president is an important thing and an honor and, you know, sometimes we got to look our best and it's been a great, great journey this far and I look forward to what the future has and hold for me. One of the things that I wanted to talk about was these videos that you sent out because unless I'm missing something, I think you instigated that and I love watching your video message that you send out occasionally to the membership and just kind of give everybody an update about what's going on and how everything is going. I'm in year two of my presidency and kind of from the onset, you know, you always have to have your thing that you're going to do as president and we all have different strengths and I replaced Mike Suri who's a big junior golf proponent and I've always prided myself on communicating and using social media and kind of spreading awareness and updates on what's going on. So basically, each week I send out a weekly video to our PGA members called The Great Way, which is what we like to call ourselves, kind of giving shout outs, give an update, keeping in touch with our, you know, 300 plus golf professionals that are in our section is something that's, it's hard to do, but it's, we have a great platform with our section staff helping get that awareness out and yeah, there's so many great things going on with our section. We have tremendous membership involvement. Our board is extremely passionate and engaged and great committee structure and a lot of members doing some really cool things, whether it's Kevin Corn with Rankin Jordan and John DePriest with everything he does with PGA Hope and Folds of Honor. You know, we have three of the best PGA Junior League programs in the country right here in the Gateway section with Don Kipper and Carlisle, Illinois, Clayton McGowan down at Fox Run and obviously Mike Suri at Oakbrook.

So just so many great things going on with our section and our members that makes it really easy to kind of share their story and give them shout outs because we're not always really good about doing that ourselves. And then our foundation does incredible work as well, led by not only our staff and a couple of us on the board that are PGA professionals, but you know, some great business leaders here in town with Sue Rector leading the charge on that, you know, with just great philanthropy and involvement within our community to spread awareness about what golf can do. And we have three things we focus on, which is junior golf, our military veterans and diversity inclusion. All three of those things are really important to us and going to be the future of our game. If we don't promote junior golf, we're not going to have a game to kind of roll into the future. And there's so much diversity in this country and world now that we don't reach out to more diverse groups and populations.

Game's not going to succeed. Obviously, we all want to support our military and our veterans. So it's an easy story to tell. You know, you got to get the right audience and spread the right word, but really important stuff to help grow the game and spread the word on what us as PGA professionals do.

Absolutely, Brett. One of the things that why I'm doing the show is because I want to grow the game. I want people to understand what it does for communities, what it does for the less fortunate than we are. The junior league, let's just talk about that a little bit. I love the new additions to the junior league because it's really helped get some of the young kids in playing golf as is kind of almost like a team sport, hasn't it?

Yeah, it's actually it's probably the coolest thing in youth sports probably been around, you know, full force now for about six or seven years. And it just continues to grow like wildfire every single year, mostly just by word of mouth golf pros kind of sharing the story about, you know, all the fun that they're having with it. You know, it started for kids seven to 13 years old, both boys and girls kind of dubbed as little league golf.

They were matching jerseys with a number on the back and a team name and play a scramble format and in a match play format for nine holes. Honestly, the parents, I think, like it maybe even more than the kids. And I have plenty members here at Old Hickory that say, when do we start this for the adults?

Because we would be all in on that. You know, it's gotten so big, it's branched out into what they call 17 years. So those kids that maybe graduate after 13 and don't necessarily have a place to play, maybe they're not a super competitive golfer or an aspiring high school or college player, but they still want to play the game. They still have an avenue to play and kind of compete in that team environment, because I think that's what a lot of kids like is being with their friends on the golf course. It's one of the number one things that they say they enjoy the game about is being on the golf course with their friends playing in the team environment, maybe going and playing another golf course, competing a little bit against another team.

Or you can do it all internally, which is what we've done here the last couple years with the growth. We just play all of our matches here at Old Hickory against, you know, other Old Hickory teams as opposed to traveling around to other golf courses. But yeah, it's a great introduction to the game, but also kind of quenches that competitive taste that some kids have, obviously at that age.

And I've got a daughter that's 12 now, and she's played the last few years. And really her one time that golf is part of her thought processes is PGA Junior League in the summertime. That was Brett Mumey and this is Jay Delsing. This is Golf with Jay Delsing. Come back to the back nine.

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The Bat Nine is presented by Pro-Am Golf. Hey, welcome back to the show. This is Jay Delsing. We're going to jump right back into my interview with Brett Mumey. As I'm listening to you describe some of these things, we've got to talk about Old Hickory and the growth of this club and what Gary and Mark have done. You've been there for eight years. You guys have a thriving membership.

When I head over there, your driving range is 99% full all the time. I see more kids than I see older folks out there. Talk a little bit about what's going on at Old Hickory.

Yeah, you nailed it. It's the last eight years. Every year has steadily progressed from not only a membership level, but just a busyness level. What's going on here at the club, not only with golf, but just with the entire building.

If you're listening to this, you've probably been to a wedding here, or a corporate event, or had a meeting, or an outing. A lot of non-member activity as well at the club, which makes us a little bit unique. The golf course has never been better. We've made a lot of changes. The ownership keeps investing in the golf course. We're wrapping up a bunker project as we speak. Our little bit of a sore eye for us in the past was just our bunkers weren't quite up to par. They're getting a facelift.

Our superintendent, Dave Piney, does a great job. The golf course is very active. It's still a challenging layout, but it's gotten a lot easier for the average person to navigate. It's still a challenging test for somebody that wants to really work on their game and take it to the next level. That's why we get a lot of high school kids out here that like to play.

It kind of challenges them. Like you said, we have a very large practice facility, which always allows space for, whether it's a private lesson or your own practice session, always somewhere to get out here and practice in your game and work on getting it better. Obviously, we have two great golf instructors here with Ed Swett and Zach Conlon.

It's a great place to get your game ready for the next level or just get introduced to the game and see your handicap drop. What I like the most about it, though, Brett, is that you can tell this is a community-based club. You guys have woven yourself into the fabric of the community. Yeah, Cottleville, I think, is one of the largest growing areas in the state. There's a lot of new homes going in in that little town of Cottleville, which is right across from where we're located technically in St. Peter's.

But, yeah, we do a lot of great fundraising events for the city of Cottleville. Definitely a community and kind of a family spirit here and kind of right in the middle of everything with all the 364 highway and everything going in. It's just kind of changed how easy it is to get around town and to get from even St. Louis County over here now. It doesn't take very long. I know when I worked at Belle Reve and I was living pretty close to this place, it would take me almost 30 minutes to get there.

Now I can get there in about 14 minutes. The evolution of the city and the expanse of people kind of moving to this area has been a great thing for the club. One of the things that still floors me is how much Ozzie Smith loves the game of golf and what he does for the game of golf. We've got to touch on Ozz and a little bit of the work that he's doing. Yeah, I mean, Ozzie's just a hero. I mean, he's a St. Louis legend. I don't think anybody will ever take his place.

I mean, Sam Usual is probably number one, but I think Ozzie is, no pun intended, you know, he wears number one. He's right there, thinks someday could surpass him. And a lot of it has to do with not only his skill on the baseball field, but what he's doing in our community. He got on board with us, with our foundation over a decade ago and annual fundraisers that we do, with our biggest one being the gala and pro-aim that we do in October, which this year is going to be at Boone Valley and the Ritz-Carlton. It's a passion for him and he loves helping people in this community and he loves the game of golf. I think he plays about as much as anybody here in town and enjoys the camaraderie that the game brings and also what it can do to a young person that maybe needs an escape.

And he was an inner-city youth in California and I think he sees a lot of those similarities in, you know, the youth at St. Louis and wants to give them something to look forward to after school and we're working on that vision as we speak on the foundation. So a lot more exciting things to come on that. Yeah, Brett, so tell us what we have to look forward to as we wrap this up. Tell us a little bit about 2022. The weather's going to not be this lousy for too much longer and we're going to be able to get back outside. It's been a little bit of a challenging start to 2022.

The weather hasn't quite cooperated for us that are stuck here in St. Louis. But, you know, that's about to turn the page and, you know, I know for our section members, we always look forward to our tournament calendar kicking off, you know, happens to start in about a month in late March. So we compete a lot on Mondays and, you know, we don't maybe get the fanfare and stuff. You know, those guys that play on TV do, but we've got a lot of great players here in our section and always look forward to networking and competing with them and testing our games and we're going to have our second annual Bob Sjogren's Cup against the Metropolitan Amateur Golf Association top amateurs over Greenbrier in May.

So definitely a highlight to kind of kick the season off for us on a playing schedule. And then, I mean, I think the Ascension Charity Challenge here in St. Louis, which I know you were part of last year and hopefully are this year as well, got an excitement for one year and they've had a nice partnership with us that's developed with PGA Reach as well, so great to have them. Nick Ragon is actually going to come speak at our spring membership meeting here in a month and kind of get the year going, making sure our members are aware of that. Yeah, I mean, the golf season is right around the corner. The boom is not slowing down from, you know, the pandemic.

So I know our 2021 was equally as busy as 2020 and I don't see that stopping in 2022. So the game of golf is in a great place right now and all you got to do is turn on the PGA Tour each week and it's pretty easy to be excited about where the game is. Brett, thank you so much for all that you're doing for our communities, for being involved in the game, for taking the presidency of the section and telling the story because there's so many folks behind the scenes that don't get the notoriety they deserve. Well, I appreciate it, Jay, and I appreciate you helping spread our story as well and I value our partnership that we've had the last couple of years and hopefully we have a nice long run with you guys and look forward to another great season. Well, that's going to wrap up the Brett Mumey interview. I can't thank him enough for joining us on the show.

Don't go anywhere. Pearly and I are going to break that down on the Michelob Ultra 19th hole. This is golfer Jay Delson. Attention golfers, do you want to improve your game? Of course you do. The first step is getting to diagnose the area or areas that need your attention.

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That's 314-628-2015. This is Golf with Jay Delsing. For the latest updates on golf equipment, help with your swing and everything golf, visit jaydelsinggolf.com. The 19th hole is presented by Michelob Ultra. Hey, welcome back. This is Golf with Jay Delsing. I'm your host, Jay. I got Pearly with me and we are headed to the 19th hole, brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Pearly. Man, that is really good.

All right, so the Brett Mumey interview. What it takes to be a pro is amazing. I mean, it's so difficult when you start thinking about the golf balls on the range. You start thinking about running the tournament, getting the scores, setting the golf course up with the superintendent. You know, Pearl, the term it takes a village is so applicable here. It's really applicable in almost anything, isn't it? There's a team, but again, the amount of dedication to get to the point where you're leading all that is huge. And to your point, all the things you have to be able to do, that's why it takes so long.

There's a lot to learn and you have to be a certain type quality of a business guy, bottom line. And I don't think we ever too often look at our pros that way, but the good ones are that way. And there's a handful that are that good that way. John, I had two that were really, really significant in my life. One just passed away not long ago. The great Dick Shaper was such a good man and such an influence. He looked at the game in such a business way that opened my eyes as a young person in such a way that was fantastic. And I really miss Dick. He is such a good guy.

What's an example, Jay? What age are you saying that that influenced you and that you had an encounter with him to where you learned something? So I first got introduced to Dick right when I was around 17. OK, I had taken some lessons and got my first real golf lesson from Eddie Griffiths, who was the head pro at Norwood before Dick. And then Ed retired.

And Ed helped me immensely. But then Dick came in and Dick just I just watched what he did, John. And he just turned the thing around completely.

He turned instead of we were getting here's a perfect example. We used to be getting putting quarters in the range machine and turning the handle to get golf balls out. I remember that Dick Shaper came up with the range membership. You paid two hundred dollars a year.

You had three thousand balls a day if you want to. And it changed. It just changed the way the operation stood out.

All we had to do was refill bags and baskets of balls on the range for people to come and hit as they wanted. It wasn't about this machine. It wasn't. And the machine didn't work. And it was just you know, it was just all crazy.

And so just doing that and then running the outings, watching Dick do the outings and the special events was just it was just fantastic. Why did this stuff stick out to you? Why does it? I don't.

I never seen anybody do it before in the first place. And second of all, you know how I love the business side of the sport world. When I was playing, I always negotiated my own contracts if I could.

I had an attorney that helped with the language and stuff. But I wanted those people to know that I was their guy. I wanted to be their guy. I wanted to understand who they were.

I wanted to be with them. So how about Griffiths? Griffiths was a very different relationship that you had.

So talk about him for a second. Because I know for a fact that when I first met you in college, he was instrumental in you getting into college and being an okay player to become a really, really good player. He changed my grip. When I was 15, the first 16, the first lesson I ever had, I had a 10 finger baseball grip. I could hook the ball around.

I could probably, if I could have kept the ball in the air long enough parallel, it would probably come back to me. It just swung around and I was growing at a weirdly odd pace. I mean, when I had met you, I was already probably six foot three. I still grew a couple more inches in college and I had short clubs and all those things were, he was instrumental in helping me figure all this out. We threw a bunch of plugs in and we didn't have a lot of shafts.

We had no money. So we were trying to figure it out and throwing wooden plugs in the back end of my grips and then throwing another grip on there. So one of my favorites, just what you just said. So he got through to you and you listened to him, which is not your forte, just like generally in life. I'm just throwing that out there for anybody. Wait a minute.

Where's that on the show? This isn't a therapy. Is this about therapy? A little bit.

A little bit it is. So how did he get through to you to give up that grip? Because he basically walked up to you and said, Hey Jay, I'm going to turn your golf game upside down.

I want you to change your grip. Why did you listen to him? That's a great question because he was the pro and at that time, the pro was a title. It was important and this guy played on a little bit on the tour in the years back. He was also part of a, once I got my tour card, he went from Norwood to becoming a champions tour official. And so he, he really knew the game. He could play the game. I played with him. It was impressive. So you respect it.

And that's what I want to get to. Why did you respect him? And obviously the way he handled himself, a lot of things, but he could play. But John, I was taught my parents, I was, I respected my elders. You know, I just grew out of that in my, myself. What age did you grow out of that?

I don't know. Well, hey, that reminds me. I had a head pro back in Michigan. Bob Gaeta was his name. And just what you just said, he was in charge. This whole thing about having 300 different members that are all bosses, not at Forest Lake Country Club. Bob Gaeta was, was the man. If he said something, I don't care if you're the richest guy in the club, you had the most influence and that kind of stuff. You walk up and say, Bob, can I get out there at one o'clock? Bob would go, looking at the tee sheet, Mrs. Jones and Mrs. Quincy's going to play.

Nope, you can't play today. They didn't fight. They didn't argue.

They didn't run to the board and say, I want this guy fired. They probably went and had a pop in the, in the lounge, hit some balls and went home. It was a very different climate back in that, in that day. And Bob Gaeta, again, was a player, finished somewhere high in the PGA, once upon a time PGA championship. So that was a different time.

And I had a certain amount of respect for him. So we have to tell one quick story. So I ended up winning the junior club championship and that kind of stuff. And he announces the juniors at the end of the year. And I'm all pumped up because I'm going to get all these accolades. I'm going to win this little trophy and that kind of stuff. And he says, and the next guy I want to talk a little bit about, this is the guy that leaves his putter on the putting green, his chipping in the bunker, never takes care of his equipment, his shoes are never clean.

So congratulations on a great year, John Perlis. That's exactly how it went. And I'm like, okay, I heard him.

I heard him. It was his way to get across to me because nothing else apparently worked. Well, it's interesting, isn't it? Plus, back then, you got a lot more slaps than you got like, hey, attaboy. You know, it's like, I'm going to give you a little attaboy, but I'm going to slap you around a little bit, too, because you still have room to improve. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Algonquin is absolutely getting a star, I think, at Brett. I think the world of him, he loves the game. He's going to get to know that membership and grow into that job, and they're going to love who they have. I don't want you to forget about the Backstoppers, and you guys, for $10, a minimum of a $10 donation, you get to go see a Blues game with Danny Mac, the voice of the Cardinals. I'm going to be caddying for Danny in the suite. This is all brought to you by Marcon, by the way. Go to backstoppers.org slash delsing and Mac raffle slash and make your donation.

I've already looked at it. I'm going to get to watch a game on April 4th against Arizona, and we're going to do it again on April 19th against the Boston Bruins. I also want to thank the Powers Insurance Agency.

We just finished something similar. I want to thank Patrick Kramer and Eric Woodworth for going to the Blues game, sitting between the benches with us and watching the Pittsburgh Penguins game. Really, really great seats. Oh, I also got to give, what else, what else are we giving away, bro? Golf balls. Golf balls.

Tim Weir. Hey, Tim Weir, you got a brand new, well, I got, I kept them away from Pearly, so he didn't use the sleeve and then put them back in there. You got a dozen, nobody knows about that. You got a dozen TP5 TaylorMade golf balls on your way, so we appreciate you listening to the show.

Just stand by the mailbox, and they will be there soon. Okay, Pearly, thanks as always, and I'll see you next week. Well, as we promised, let's go into the mailbag and answer some of the questions that get sent to me. Folks, if you have any questions, if you want to know how you can improve a certain part of your game, anything in the golf-related family, you can e-mail me, jatjdelsongolf.com, and pop the question at me, and I will answer it for you on one of the shows. The first question comes from Mike in South City. Hey, Jay, I love your show. Does Tiger Woods ever win another major?

Hey, Mike, thanks so much for the question. Man, that is the million-dollar question right now. First of all, when Tiger had this accident, the biggest question was, does he ever walk again? Does he ever play again? You know, just recently, he had that really cool induction into the PGA Tour Hall of Fame. His daughter, Sam, did a beautiful kind of introduction for him there, and so we know he's going to play on tour again. Does he?

I don't. Everything I've ever done, Mike, where I have kind of thrown shade or doubted what Tiger Woods could do, he's turned around and stuck it in my ear. The guy is a generational talent. I know I'll never see another athlete like that come along in my lifetime and affect the game of golf the way he has, but winning another major is really, really going to be difficult. Do I want him to win another major?

Hell, yes, I do. Do I think he will? I think it's going to be really difficult, so I'm going to say no. And you know why I'm saying no for sure like that, Mike, is because this will probably guarantee that he will. He's got 82 wins on the PGA Tour, and I know one more win on the PGA Tour will get him the record for total number of wins and move him out of a tie with Sam Snead. So I'm going to say this, Mike.

I'm going to say yes, he wins another event, and no, it's not a major. Okay, the next question comes from Gene in Webster Groves. I saw the really cool piece that Danny Mac did on your father and the St. Louis Browns on television a couple weeks ago. Did your dad lead you into golf? Gene, great question. My favorite question. I always have a hell of a lot of time when I get to talk about my dad.

The answer is yes, he did. First of all, I always wanted to be a professional athlete in some way, shape, or form. Honestly, I wanted to be a professional baseball player. I had never seen golf.

I had never played golf. As a youngster, I was just in the backyard. I was playing wiffle ball in the streets. I was playing catch with my dad in the neighborhood and anybody that would have any time for me. I always loved going to the ballparks. I still love going to the ballparks.

I watched the games religiously on TV, but my story was a little different. My dad would play every once in a while on a Sunday and sneak out and play golf. I was always wondering, my dad was left-handed, so I couldn't grab his club. My mom had a red set of woods down in the basement, some really funky-looking clubs.

I started swinging those a little bit and had no idea what I was doing. My sisters used to lifeguard at this place called North Shore Country Club. It was right down at Riverview and 270. I just got tired of swimming all the time, so I'd hop the fence and jump over. I'd spend all this time on this really lousy golf course that was down on the river's edge. It was called North Shore Country Club. Somehow I wound up just falling in love with looking for golf balls.

I'd stand on that putting green jean and I would putt to win the U.S. Open and to win the Masters in my mind with a really out-of-round ball that had a cut in it. It was probably a Blue Max or something like that. I don't know if you old folks will remember Blue Max flights when they came out. As a kid, when I could find a Blue Max, I thought I had the world right in my hands. My dad was seriously influential for me.

I always wanted to be a professional athlete in some way, shape, or form. I've got to tell you, Jean, golf has exceeded my expectations for everything that it's provided for me. It got me out of the situation I was in in North County. It introduced me to an amazing number of people in faraway, beautiful places. I had the privilege, the sincere privilege, of playing on the PGA Tour for 25-plus years, getting to play with some of the all-time greats.

I couldn't be luckier, more grateful to the way I grew up, to my dad and my family, and for all the support they gave me. That's a long answer, Jean, but I really love the question. I could probably keep on rambling about that, but probably you guys don't want to hear that. Next question is from Ben from South St. Louis. Ben says, hey, Jay, could you explain why playing in the Ascension Charity Classic last year was so important to you?

Yeah, that's a great question, Ben. Going back from what I just said about the way I grew up, when I was about 12 or 13 years old, my dad would drop me off over at Norwood on the way to work. I'd get there about 6 o'clock, 6.30 in the morning, and sit out in the caddy yard. There were some older guys playing cards.

The caddy yard was a dicey, dicey place. It taught me to swear at a really high level, which I'm pretty proud of and pretty good at. It taught me how to play cards. It taught me how to bet on football. It taught me a lot of things that I did not know was going to be coming my way. But, Ben, what it did was it was my introduction to the game.

I couldn't be more grateful for that introduction because, as I said just a minute ago to Gene's question, I've been to places all over the world. I've got to play golf with presidents of the United States. When I was 18 years old, I got to play with Sean Connery, who at the time was James Bond and one of the coolest human beings that was walking on the planet. If you expand on that a little bit, Ben, I've been able to play in major championships. I've been able to play in British Opens. I've played on different continents. The game has supported my family at an extremely high level.

My daughters went to private schools and things like that. It didn't have to happen that way. It could have been a much different story. The Ascension Charity Classic, Ben kind of put a wrapper on it. It kind of brought everything into almost full circle because that's where I started. I really believe that will be the last tournament that I probably ever play in.

I feel like it's really justified. I got to play in front of so many people that I know, that I love. I got to play on a golf course. I literally was hauling bags around there. Ben went through hot summer days and up and down the hills.

Somehow, I really, really loved it. Those memories still, I cherish those memories because it's all part of my story, which I'm proud of and super, super fortunate to have been there. That is why the Ascension Charity is so important. Also, I need to say, Ben, because I grew up in that North County area, all the monies that this tournament will raise will stay in that North County area. That area needs our help. There's a lot of cool things that we can do with this money.

Ascension has got at least three more years of this and maybe more. I'm really proud to have a tiny little piece of contribution into that thing to try to make the area where I grew up in a better place for those that are living in it now. Our last question, it comes from Susie from North County. This is a great question, Susie.

I love this question. What tips do you have to improve my putting? I really don't putt well, particularly on my distance putts.

Do you have any drills? The answer is, Susie, get your pad and paper out, because I'm going to give you some of the best drills ever. First of all, there's one thing that all the great putters, and you can pull up YouTube videos of any of your favorite players and pull up the great putter, Susie, and watch this. From their waist down, there is little to no movement throughout the entire act of putting, period. So, Susie, you're not rocking your hips, you're not transferring your weight.

Your lower body is pretty still. That's crucially important when you're putting longer putts to help you with speed. Typically, when we get further away from the hole, I see a lot of amateurs start putting a little hip turn in their putting, which is something you do. It's a way of supplying power, but it's the incorrect way of supplying power because you cannot rely on the putting green. It'll get you an explosion one time, and it'll leave you 15 or 20 feet short the next time. So, Susie, the first tip is, do not move your lower body when you're putting.

Okay, the second is, and again, everything I'm saying, Susie, can be verified on a YouTube channel. So, check this out. Your hands, in relation to the ball in your stance, need to be at least, at least on the back edge of the ball. I'd prefer to be on the middle of the ball to the front edge of the ball, but at least on the back edge of the ball. I see way too many amateur golfers throw that ball way up in their stance, and their hands wind up being too far behind the ball. Or, they'll throw the ball way back in their stance, and their hands will be too far forward, and that actually delofts the putter. And your ball, when you putt with the ball too far back in your stance, you end up smashing the ball straight into the turf, and instead of rolling across the green, the ball bounces. So, get your ball hand position correct. Put that ball slightly in the center of your stance, and put your hands on the front edge to the middle of that ball, Susie.

Here's a couple of drills that'll complete this putting lesson for you. When you're going from distances, Susie, I want you to figure out the way that you normally putt, and then right before you putt the ball, I want you to do this. This is going to freak you out. It's going to completely freak you out.

I want you to close your eyes, and then I want you to make the stroke, and leave your eyes closed, and this is what this is going to do, and you're going to love this. This leaves nothing but feel left. You have darkness. You're looking down. You don't even know if you're going to hit the ball, and you might even hit it a little fat or a little thin.

That's okay. Just keep at it. Give it five or six tries, because the feel response that you get, Susie, is going to be spectacular. You're going to go, gosh, I didn't hit that ball solidly, or gosh, I didn't. What happens is your mind will pay so much attention to the hit because your eyes are closed, and you're freaking out because you can't see what you're doing.

Okay? That's one way. And then make those judgment calls after you hit those practice putts with your eyes closed, and go, gosh, I didn't hit that nearly hard enough. I got to hit that ball harder. Or you could say, man, I hit that thing way too hard. I got to slow this thing out and smooth it out like Jay was telling me to do. And then here's another way to work on your lag or your distance putts.

Do the exact same thing I just said. Right before you get ready to hit the putt, instead of closing your eyes, Susie, look at the hole. Don't look down at the ball.

This is not quite as freaky as closing your eyes, but it will also provide you the same thing. You'll get a ton of feedback because your brain isn't active with your eyes going all over the place and wondering, you know, looking at the ball and doing this thing. You're going to be plugged into nothing but feel, and you're going to go, oh, man, no wonder I didn't hit that. I didn't put that ball well.

I hit it way off the heel or hit it way off the toe or I moved my lower body. All of those things are going to help you with your putting. So let's do a quick recap. All right. We're going to keep our lower body still. Right. We're going to lengthen our backstroke and even out our back and through stroke with a smooth amount of acceleration. No quick popping motion in there.

Right. Then we're going to check out our hand position. The hands need to be on the middle to front half of the ball, ideally, and then putt from there and then use the two drills. Putting from distance A with your eyes closed and then B looking at the hole and then set.

Susie, send me an email back and let me know how this helps. These are drills I've worked on myself. I've talked to Ben Crunshaw and Brad Faxon and Corey Pavan, three of the best putters in my generation, and they all will sign off on this. And speaking of signing off, that's going to wrap up another show. This is Golf with Jay Delsing.

I appreciate you listening and we'll talk to you next week. Get up straight, St. Louis. Peloton, let's go. This holiday with the right music and the right motivation from world-class instructors. We're going to pick it up a notch.

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