Casey Martin Show-Sunday, -Golf With Jay Delsing

This is golf with Jay Delsingh. A two-time college All-American at UCLA. A participant in nearly 700 PGA Tour events.

Seven professional wins to his credit. Over 30 years of professional golf experience. This is Golf with Jay Delsingh. Hey, good morning. This is Golf with Jay Delsingh. I'm your host, Jay. And I have got my buddy John Pearl sitting right next to me. Pearly, good morning. Good morning, Jay.

Ready to go. Man, what a show and what a great time of year for golf. Father's Day. Well, first of all, Pearl, happy Father's Day to you and happy Father's Day to all the dads out there. Man, my dad, Jim Delsingh, probably having a cocktail upstairs with your dad. I miss both big John Pearly Sr. and Jim Delsingh.

Two really cool men. A lot of great times in golf. And this is a special time for me and my dad because this is the time of year we went up fishing in Canada every year.

So between COVID and my dad passing away, those trips have been dwindling, which is really, really hard. But what fond, fond memories. Just fantastic times. And your dad was up there with you and my dad a couple times. And we just had a great, great time.

So it's a special time of year. Yeah, it really, really is. So we formatted the show like around the golf, the first segment of the show is called the on the range segment. And it's brought to you by the Gateway section of the PGA.

And guys, thanks so much for joining the show. Again, there's over 300 men and women working across the area to just do all the little things to make golf so great. We really appreciate it. It's been one hell of a volatile week in the world of golf, a lot of things to talk about here. But having the PGA section here, the Gateway section support the show, we really appreciate it. Having Jeff Thornhill support the show the TP five golf balls guys just send me an email j at j dalston golf calm put balls somewhere in the subject or the title or somewhere in the in the body of the email and you'll have a chance to win a dozen TP five golf balls. That's j j dalston golf calm and we are thanking Bob and Kathy Donahue 3148052132 folks, these guys will take care of your home inside the outside. Check them out online. Look at the stuff that they do for their staircasing. It's beautiful.

Give them a call 3148052132. All right, john, I have an interview with Casey Martin this week and it still takes my breath away to think about this interview. It's, it's, I don't want to say it's an intense interview, but this is such a wealth. Red guy has so much happened to him. If you don't know Casey Martin played at University of Stanford with Tiger note of a gay was a couple time All American. There played a year on the PGA Tour had a disability kind of a birth defect in his right leg where blood flow wasn't quite right. And circulation was all screwed up.

And so he had an ailment there but I'll just stop there. I don't want to give too much away but that it's really an interesting interview. I'm going to do the tip of the cap. The tip of the cap is brought to you by our friends Dean team Volkswagen Kirkwood man these are great guys Colin thanks so much. Colin Happy Father's Day 114-966-0303.

Today's a no brainer. We're tipping our caps to our dads, our stepdads, all of the parents, the dads out there that dads thanks so much. I miss my dad every single day. I know you do too Pearl. Thanks to the dad just for caring for giving a damn for all going taking us to our practices for for all of the things that you did.

But for me in particular to my dad, thank you for the example couldn't be half the person I am today without the example of your dad showing me the way so I really really appreciate that. That's the tip of the cap. It's brought to you by Dean team Volkswagen of Kirkwood and Colin Burke 314-966-0303. That's gonna wrap up the on the range segment.

Don't go anywhere folks. We'll be back with a Casey Martin interview and lots more. Golf with Jay Delson. This is Golf with Jay Delson.

The front nine is coming up. Folks do you need a new car, truck or SUV? Then the Dean team of Kirkwood is the place for you to go 314-966-0303 and go see Colin Burke. He just got me into a new SUV and I love it.

Boy did they make the experience painless and super super easy. Most dealers don't have any cars in their lots but at Dean team of Kirkwood Colin has an entire parking lot full of new and used cars. You don't want a VW?

That's no problem. They have Audis, BMWs, Mercedes, anything you want. Colin and the Dean team of Kirkwood will go get it if they don't have it. Call them at 314-966-0303 or go to DeanTeamVWKirkwood.com. The Dean team for all your car buying needs. Golf tips, news on the latest equipment and everything golf. Log on to Golf with JayDelson.com.

The front nine is coming up. The trip to the Florida Keys, Las Vegas or even Pebble Beach. All of that is just a click away. When I was a kid my dad used AAA and their Triptych map service to get us to his home state of Wisconsin every year. We also used their wonderful roadside assistance in the middle of nowhere Illinois when we had car trouble.

But listen up. AAA is so much more and has so much more to offer you and your family. They take care of everything. I mean everything for you and your vacation.

When you're ready to travel do it with confidence. Act a AAA advisor today and go to AAA.com backslash travel for all of your travel needs. Thanks for this opportunity Jay. PGA Reach Gateway Foundation is the philanthropic arm of the Gateway PGA section. And we have three pillars of service in our section. And our section is really big. It goes into southern Illinois. It goes up to Quincy. It goes out to Lake of the Ozarks.

It goes down to Cape Girardeau. So our team is really big. It's really active in all of the areas of our section. But military is one of our pillars and our focus there is our PJ Hope clinics. We just finished one here at Lake Forest Country Club that I was involved in.

It's just giving veterans, both veterans that have disabilities but also veterans that are not disabled a chance to either learn how to play the game or enhance their game. And it's a six week program. We have seven programs going on in the spring.

We'll have more in the fall. And our second pillar is our youth pillar and it's growing the game through our junior tour activities. We've got a developmental tour which is for the younger kiddos to just really enjoy the game and then more competitive junior tour. We've had so many young golfers sign up this year today that we're actually running two junior golf tournaments typically three times a week out there in the community all over our section. And then our third pillar is our inclusion pillar.

It's about providing access to the game to people who maybe not be able or who have not ever had a chance to play the game. So that includes our programs in North St. Louis. And it also we've got a really exciting initiative this year. It's called PGA ABLE and our acronym for ABLE stands for abilities beyond life's expectations. And we're going to be going out and we haven't gotten started yet because of the pandemic but this summer late in the summer and in the fall we're going to start with programs. Teaching the game of golf having fun with the game of golf with individuals who might have some physical or mental challenges.

So we're really excited about that. And our inclusion pillar also it incorporates our PGA works fellow and that's someone we bring on our staff that it's actually a position that's paid for by the PGA of America and it's someone who has come from a diverse background and we're just trying to bring the game of golf to diverse populations. That's kind of a quick overview of what PGA Reach Gateway Foundation is all about.

They have the same pillars that we do. And just a little fun fact, PGA Reach the acronym Reach was started here in St. Louis by some really smart people at Bell Reef and also the Gateway PGA section back whenever they were looking at ideas to attract the 100th PGA Championship here. And the section had a foundation already but then it was rebranded PGA Reach at that time and reached its acronym SAMHSA. PGA Reach is a place for recreation, education, awareness, community and health and all of those things we feel all of our programs encompass all of those different areas.

Oh they absolutely do. You have the great Ozzie Smith who couldn't be a better ambassador for the city for golf for inclusion for every single thing and it's just fantastic. This is Sue Rector. She heads up PGA Reach here in St. Louis.

Sue please give your best to your husband Melt. Please keep doing all that you're doing and we'll have to have you on the show sometime again soon. Thank you Jay. Thanks so much for the opportunity to tell you about what we're doing at PGA Reach Gateway Foundation. That was the Gateway PGA section spotlight.

Coming up a compelling visit with Casey Martin. This is golf with Jay Delsing. I am proud to welcome the Gateway section of the PGA back to my show. Whether you're pulling into your favorite driving range, public golf course or country club there is an excellent chance that the staff there is part of the over 300 men and women PGA professionals at over 100 facilities that make up our Gateway section. I grew up watching so many of these fine men and women getting to the golf course at dawn, leaving at dusk, spending their entire day running events, giving lessons and growing this great game. PGA Reach, Drive Chip and Putt, PGA Hope and the fantastic PGA Junior League are a few of the examples of the programs run by these same PGA professionals. Go to Gateway PGA.org to learn more or to find your next PGA professional for your next lesson, go to PGA.com. The Gateway PGA, growing the game we love. This is golf with Jay Delsing. The front nine is presented by the Ascension Charity Classic, September 5th through the 11th at Norwood Hills Country Club.

For tickets, ascensioncharityclassic.com. Hey, we're back. This is Golf with Jay Delsing. I'm your host, Jay.

I got Pearly with me. We're headed to the front nine. The front nine is brought to you by our good friends, man, the Ascension Charity Classic. Folks, this September, it's going to be at Norwood Hills.

The best players in the world, over 50, are all going to be in St. Louis again this year. What a fun event it's going to be. September 5th through 11th, the Advocate PGA event. It's going to be at Glen Echo that same week.

The winner of that Advocate PGA event gets an exemption into the Mayakoma Worldwide Technologies event down in Playa del Carmen. All right, Pearl, let's talk a little LIV first and foremost. Wait a second, wait a second. Do we call it LIV? Do we call it LIV or do we call it the Saudi Arabian Golf Tour?

Yeah, I mean, John, think of it right. Think of the new terms that have come out this week. Sports washing, the Saudi Golf League, the PGA Tour is deliberately calling it the Saudi. They want Saudi and the Saudi Arabian government to be associated with this tour because of the atrocities and the things that happened to Khashoggi and things like that. It's a very interesting way to kind of position it.

They make their point and their position clear, I guess. I think there's a lot more dirt getting thrown around behind the scenes. I hope it stays behind the scenes. I just don't like to see golf get muddled in this kind of stuff. Some of the other sports with their strikes and their other issues get kind of dirty. And I just wish golf could stay away from this. If they want to fight like cats and dogs behind the scenes, go for it. I think there is some fighting. For Rory to come out and say what he said as far as just the dig to Norman, that he's got more wins on the tour now than Norman's got. I was surprised at that, but that just tells me that there's a lot more spite and angst and frustration behind the scenes than we're seeing and I hope they keep it there.

Yeah, there's no doubt about that. Folks, if you didn't catch it, Rory was interviewed after shooting 62 on Sunday and successfully defending the RBC Canadian Open title. They played Royal St. George's, which is a great golf course up there in Toronto. One of his comments was, my 21st PGA Tour win, gosh, the crowds, Pearl, were ridiculous. But the 21st PGA Tour win, and he said specifically, I have one more win than somebody else.

And we all know Greg Norman's got 20 PGA Tour wins. And so that was kind of like a go ahead and take a look at this, Greg. So the thing is, here's my last take. There's a lot of stuff going on, a lot of things coming through. The tour's in trouble in certain aspects. I don't know from the independent contractor point of view how you're going to be able to keep people out.

On the other side of the fence, on the independent contractor format, you don't have to hire someone. Yeah, we've talked about this. I don't know all the other underworkings. I think there's going to be a lot of back and forth and wrangling all over the place. It might go on for years if it starts hitting the courts.

But that's why I hope they keep it behind the scenes. Jay, there's so much good going on the tour right now and I want to just, you started saying something about the Canadian Open. Well, what do they call the one hole? The rink? The 16th hole? I mean, that's so Canadian.

It is so Canadian. What do we have up next? What we're going to do next is we're going to go to this Casey Martin interview. So folks, for you that don't know Casey Martin, he right now is currently the head golf coach at the University of Oregon. He played his college golf at Stanford. He played a year on the PGA Tour. He's also been born with a birth defect in his right knee, right leg.

This is a smart guy. This is kind of a tragic story, but hopefully with a light at the end of the tunnel. But let's go listen to the first half of the Casey Martin interview. I look back when you earned your PGA Tour card and I want to get into that stuff, but let's talk a little bit about growing up in Eugene, Oregon. For folks that don't get to go to the Northwest, what a beautiful spot and there's some great golf courses up there.

Yeah, you know, there are and I've been able to travel the world and see a bunch of different places and I'm always thankful when I come home. There's a lot of positives, huge Douglas fir trees and rivers and stuff. It's very scenic and it's got a climate. We get a bad reputation for rain and it's partly true.

Well, not partly true. It does rain here, but it also brings a freshness and it's just very green. It's a cool place and I was fortunate to grow up. My dad was a member of Eastern Country Club and so I grew up on this golf course with just these towering fir trees and really fast greens. It was super fun and I didn't realize how good it was until I started traveling around and you come back. You're like, wow, I had it pretty good. So I'm very grateful to grow up here and be really connected to the university here and all the people.

It's been good. And before that, you played at the University of Stanford. You had a great career, a couple of time All-American.

And what most people don't know, you were also an academic All-American. And then you got to spend a little time with one of my favorite people in the whole world, Noda Begay. I just love that guy.

Yep, I do too. Noda and I were tight. We redshirted years. We spent five years together. I still consider him a close friend today. He's the best and I love my time at Stanford. It was an amazing time. It's obviously a great school, but great golf area, awesome culture down there. I got to play with Noda and Tiger and many others and consider that really one of the highlights of my life, for sure.

So, Case, you guys have obviously great players. Noda's won four times on the PGA Tour. You're a PGA Tour member and played about 45, 43 events or so.

You just don't fall off a log and have that happen. When Tiger came on the scene with you guys, because I know you and Noda both redshirted. I think you redshirted your third year so that you guys could play with Tiger.

What was it like? Yeah. You know, we did have a sense. Certainly, he was back in the early or mid-90s, so social media wasn't a thing. You learned about people kind of grassroots back in the day. We had heard about Tiger and Noda knew him from competing against him a little bit, but I never did prior to college. But when he showed up, Noda and I were all Americans and I remember it was the three of us. It was Noda, myself and Tiger went and played a golf course called Sharon Heights, which is a good golf course up above Stanford.

He literally took it apart. The greens were punched, so you weren't making a lot of putts, but he didn't miss a fairway, didn't miss a shot. And after the round, I got in the car with Noda and he just looked at me and was like, well, what did we just win? And I remember it was like, he made us, I mean, it was on such a different level than Noda and I. And we were, you know, nice players, but he was just, he was a freak, so much better even at 17 or 18. And I remember playing with him that year. It's just these shots he hit and it was just way different. I think if you go to a PGA Tour range back in the day, everyone's great, obviously, but there's only a few guys that really stand out like, wow, you know, it's just different. He's always been one of those guys.

It's mesmerizing to watch just the sound and the power and the speed is just, it's something to behold. So it was really fun to get to play with him, get to know him. We had quite a run that year with him, so it was good. And you guys were the NCAA champions, though, the year before that, before Tiger got there, I think, weren't you? Yeah, we did. We had this amazing run.

We're down in Texas. We were able to beat Justin Leonard in Texas down there on kind of their backyard and win it before Tiger showed up. And we actually lost in the playoff with Tiger. But, I mean, we had an epic run of winning and almost winning. We were the number one ranked team that whole year with Tiger.

And Oklahoma State had an amazing team and they nipped us in a playoff. But looking back, it was an amazing experience. I got to learn so many things.

Just learning to compete with these guys and learning to believe and learning to hold your weight with them, you know, when you're on a team and not trying to let them down. I mean, that was an amazing experience. And I think it really formed a lot of my desire to get back to do that. When I was kind of coming off the tour, I was thinking, like, what was I going to do?

That always stuck with me. I had such a great experience that I kind of wanted to stay in it in that way. And so here I am coaching.

Let's talk a little bit about that, Casey. Congratulations on your 16th year at the helm of the University of Oregon. I know that Stanford, University of Stanford, kind of, they were kind of trying to woo you. But you went back to your grassroots. You went back home and you have created a powerhouse there with Oregon. You won the NCAA championship in 2016, which you're one of only three coaches to do it as a player and as a coach. And gosh, it's got to feel good, man.

It does. It's an unbelievable feeling to be able to come home to where I live. Eugene, Oregon, and the school that I love. You know, I didn't go to Oregon. My family lineage to Oregon is deep.

And so I've been a duck all my life, even though I went to Stanford. And so to be able to bring some of the things I've learned and just sell what Oregon has. Oregon is a lot different now than it was when I was a kid. It's due to Phil Knight and Nike and what they've given to Oregon.

It's on another level than what it was when I was a kid. So it's been fun to be able to share that with going out recruiting and trying to sell people to come to Oregon. Because we're a little bit off the grid compared to where the bulk of the elite golfers are, you know, in Southern California or Texas or Florida. We've got a great thing to offer them. And we've had an awesome run.

I've had some just some amazing players and it's been really, really fun. Casey, one of the things that people don't really understand that I want to talk a little bit about is that you started this movement at a place like Oregon that is not your prototypical golf powerhouse. And because of some indoor facilities, because of some of the new technology, there's universities that work somewhat, as you said, off the grid. That are now popping up, turning out great players and having great teams because of some of these Phil Knight type people that are building these facilities and giving these kids indoor opportunities to work on the game when the weather's lousy.

You nailed it. And golf in college, there's been an arms race last 20 years in facilities with practice facilities, golf courses, and to your point, indoor facilities. And so now you're getting schools that wouldn't be your you wouldn't think would be your your top choices necessarily.

But what's gone on to there's a lot of levels. I think of a team like Illinois. Right. And they're just they've been dominant for the last 15 years under Mike Small. And they have amazing facilities.

They've built everything you can imagine. And now they we can really recruit internationally quite easily. I think 20, 30 years ago was hard.

But with the last 20 years with the Internet, you go on, you can check. I mean, the ease of what you can do that now has been so increased. So it's just more doable to go get these kids from that aren't your typical.

Well, you said they're just used to be maybe 30 years ago. Illinois would recruit the state of Illinois or Oregon would recruit Oregon and you get your local kids and you go compete. It's fun.

It's good. Now it's international and the facilities can can attract these kids from all over. And so you're starting to see that with programs that aren't necessarily. It's not Arizona, Arizona State, Texas all the time because of the weather. It's these other schools. So it's been really fun to be part of that and to have some amazing teams up at Oregon. And it feels good because you still feel a little bit like the underdog when you go up against some of those schools. And I love that.

And we kind of feed on that. This is golf with Jay Delsing. I'm visiting with Casey Martin.

He is currently the head golf coach at the University of Oregon. Casey, what's interesting, you start thinking about attractions and things that you're going to going to tell these kids. And I know what sort of humility you have in your humble guy, but having the experiences that you've had. And we're going to talk about your leg and some of the stuff in a little bit. But having the experiences you have as a tour player, as a winner on the Corn Ferry Tour, as a teammate of Tigers, an All-American at a phenomenal school like Stanford. That's a hell of a draw, man. It really is.

Yeah, thank you. And I do sell it, but I sell it in a little bit of a different way. When I talk to the kids and I tell them to come to Oregon to play for me, I tell them to come here not because I was so awesome. It's not like, hey, I played the tour.

You know, you got to do what I did. It's like, no, it's like I felt like when I played the tour, I underachieved. Granted, I had a lot going on.

We can talk about that. I had some huge challenges, but I deeply felt like I left a lot out there. Like I didn't maximize my ability. I really felt like I was capable of doing more. And so when I look back on my career, it's like, dang, I wish I could have a do over in a sense.

And I wish if I did, I would have done A, B and C differently, let's say. And so I sell these kids on that. Like, look, don't come to Oregon because I played the tour. Come because I tasted it and I should have done better. And I know why.

And I'm not going to let you make those mistakes. You know, it's a little bit of a flip on it. It's not like just rah rah, come play because I, you know, there's a lot of guys that have had a cup of coffee out there and done it. But I really felt like being around the people I've been around, I've seen it.

I know what it I know what you need to do. And if I could do it again, I would do it this way. And so follow me kind of a deal.

So that's sort of how it is. Well, for anybody that knows you, I mean, you're not it's not like you're a negative person, but you're not a you're not an overly. You're not going to go overboard. You're not going to talk about yourself. But you're a very matter of fact.

And the facts are the facts. And I think that's one of the things that I'm I loved and respected about you. Let's talk a little bit about I gosh, I hate to even use this word, but this disability that you've dealt with your entire life. It could because when I first met you, the overwhelming, you know, because I knew your story, but the overwhelming thought that I had in my mind is like this guy is a physical stud. I mean, you're strong as hell.

The speed that you swing the golf club with. I could tell you were just a kid that played a lot of sport. Well, thank you. I thank you.

That's very kind. I do love sports. I would have played football and basketball had I been able to.

But I was kind of forced, not forced in, but I was puddled into golf because it was the one sport I could play physically. And I do. I love it. I love being around it. I grew up going to all these sport Oregon games with my father and brother and just kind of a sports net.

And so it was it's been awesome that I've had an avenue and outlet athletically and it's it's been really fun. And, you know, there's part of me that dreams like what could have done if I would have had two healthy legs, you know. But it's also this is my story. That's who I am.

And and I did I did the best I could in the sense of I gave it 100 percent effort. But I do. To my point earlier, I do dream about like, gosh, if I could do it over again, I'd like to I'd like to do things differently. Because I think you could be better if you learn what you've learned, you know, or if you could apply what you've learned. So that's sort of my my my deal.

And I, I am very grateful that I have an outlet that way, you know, athletically, golf. All right. So that's going to wrap up the first part of the Casey Martin interview.

But don't go anywhere. We will be back with the back nine and the last half of Casey Martin. This is golf with Jay Delson. Hey, St. Louis, the Ascension charity classic presented by Emerson is back this September. Don't miss the excitement when the PGA Tour champions best compete again. All for charity. September 9th through the 11th at Norwood Hills Country Club.

Pro-Am spots, hospitality packages, VIP tickets and more available now at Ascension Charity Classic dot com. Powers Insurance is a family owned agency right here in St. Louis that specializes in providing personalized coverage for the client who has a lot going on at Powers. They understand that you and your life do not fit in a simple box.

So guess what? Neither should your insurance coverage. Go to Powers Insurance dot com or call three one four seven two five one four one four and ask for Tim Davis. That's Powers Insurance dot com. I want to tell you about my friends and longtime supporters of this show, Marcon. Yes, they are incredible community stewards.

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Your therapy, our passion. This is golf with Jay Delson to learn more about the game of golf, latest equipment and golfing tips. Log on to Jay Delson golf dot com. The back nine is presented by Pro-Am Golf. And we are headed to the back nine that is brought to you by our great friends at Pro-Am Golf. Guys, here's what you got to do.

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Get fitted. Call C.J. and let's take your game to the next level. Guys, we're going back to the second half of this Casey Martin interview. It's one of my favorite interviews. I love this guy.

I hope you enjoy it. So for the folks that don't know, Casey, you've got you've had this problem with circulation in your right leg. And when you turned pro, you actually had to sue the PGA Tour for the right to use one of these little carts to kind of allow you to try to compete, because the ups and the downs of the hills and the the the grind that would have taken on your leg, it would have been it could have been disastrous, I suppose, for lack of better word. So I was born with a syndrome called Cripple-Trinani syndrome, which doesn't mean anything to anybody, but basically the blood would go down into my right leg and the vowels and the pump system that brings it back up didn't work in my right leg. And so the blood would pool and swell up. And so if I were to stand in front of you without a stocking that I wore, you could see my leg literally getting big from the blood engorging the leg.

So I wore these really tight stockings, joke stockings that would keep my leg compressed, which gave it some level of comfort, and then I was able to be fairly active. The problem was, as that blood would cool in my lower leg would literally engorge in and around those bones. And so as I was really active as a kid and in college, those those veins that were working right would bleed internally, and that blood would just kind of be part of that bone.

And so in college, I started getting these horrible pains in my shin. And as we started taking x-rays, they noticed like, wow, your bone is not looking very good. And so if you put my legs, my two legs on an x-ray, my left leg, my good leg would be really bright and vibrant white.

And my right leg, my bad leg would be kind of look like camouflagey, gray, just swish cheesy almost. And the doctors are like, look, this is not great, obviously, because if you step in a hole or do something, this is going to break. And they said if it does break, it's not just like, hey, you broke your leg. It's like it's a serious, serious thing, both from bleeding out to just not healing. And so when I took a cart back, so when I was walking in college until my last couple years as I was getting increased pain, my golf coach, there was a clause in the NCAA that if you're legally disabled, you could apply and use a cart, which I did.

And really, it was my golf coach making it. I did not want to do it. I was dead set against it. I was going to fight and do whatever I can. But my coach is like, no, we need you. And this is I'm not watching you suffer. You're going to use it. So we kind of have this little battle. He won. So I wrote and then when I turned professional, obviously, it's a little different.

Carts were allowed at Q school to make the tour. Right. And so I would use a card every time I went to the qualifying tournament. And then as my leg was really deteriorating, I was on my last leg.

No pun intended. I was like, I don't know, this is it is my final Q school. I've been playing three years and had some success on the hooters tour, but I needed to make it I remember I shot 69 at Fort Ord really tough course.

Oh, yeah. Make it through second stage to get to finals. And it just so happened that at this year and in the Q school carts weren't allowed at the finals. And I think there was a reason for that as I look back because I petitioned the hooters tour for a cart when I played out there. They didn't know what to do.

They asked the PGA Tour, the PGA Tour says don't do it. Open the can of worms. You can't go there. So I got rejected on the hooters tour, the tour knew that that day was coming. They took carts away.

And then here I am the next year at Q school no cart. And so I had an attorney friend, this is long story. Tell me what I got.

Oh my gosh, it's fantastic. Please continue. Yeah. So I had this attorney friend Bill was well, who was a personal injury attorney and Eugene but love golf, I used to caddy for him and he's like, look, there's this thing the ADA, it applies to you, you need to do this, because you have a talent to make it and you're not going to make it with your leg like this so he was the one that said I'll do this for you for free just let me help you, and he really pushed it and got an injunction for me at the final stage of Q school to use cart, and this is when the story blew up. It was in the fall in 97. I won this injunction I was given a card to two didn't know what to do they kind of opened up carts at Q school again and just, they were probably scrambling trying to figure it out. It went to a trial that next year. And, and lo and behold, I won that lawsuit. And I also won the first event on the what's now the corn fairy and so my story went from sort of a hidden story to front, front and center. And, you know, a way we went so that's sort of my story with my leg and the card and how that happened.

And it was a long ordeal you know the tour appeal that went all the way to the Supreme Court and fortunately, because the ADA was pretty clear on the law there and the law was definitely on my side and, and we were able to prevail despite having to go up against the door which is a really scary thing. You know what's interesting and folks this is golf with Jay Delsing and I'm visiting with Casey Martin Casey what's interesting is I think of the word activist, and I think of knowing you and knowing your story and knowing what your heart wanted to do with your life and play and compete in sports. There's this shadow back there that you can't really deny that you've kind of opened this door for others to possibly follow a path that is really unconventional really difficult.

And I don't know where you sit on that but for me, I think it's pretty damn cool. Well thank you. I, you know, looking back in hindsight, yeah, you know my story is unique and, and I'm grateful in some, some ways that for what I went through when I was going through it, Jay, I, I, and again I've shared this a little bit but I viewed myself as an athlete, I saw other people other kids, my teammates, I wanted to just like them. I didn't want to be different. Yeah, my leg hurt.

Yes, I linked, but, you know, hey, let's go let's try to compete. And I never viewed myself as disabled, I just, you know, when I came up to a parking lot and there's disabled parking I would never be there I didn't think of it. I never viewed myself that way it was for other people, deep down I knew I had an issue but I never identified with it.

So when I was going through that and carrying the banner. It was a little difficult because I just, you know, it was a little bit uncomfortable, having now that I've gone through it though and, and, and particularly now losing my leg, I, I'm so grateful for the ADA for for people that have taken a stand because it really makes my life, a lot easier now, I mean, it's. And I mentioned this in the article that came out and got digest but now without a leg when I go to a bathroom like in a, in a hotel and there's, there's bars and there's, it's accommodated for someone with a disability, it means the world because it's really I mean, it is like dangerous to go do things when one leg right. And so I think like a lot of people have gone before me, and I'm very grateful for that. So, in light of the cart, even though I was a little better reluctant, reluctant activist. I'm grateful happened because it allowed for me and it set a precedent for people with disabilities that they can do it. I think today if I were going through it today be a lot easier you know with with some of the social justice stuff we're dealing with I think I'd have an easier time but you know 25 years ago. It was a little different world and and you had to fight for it and and so it is it's what it was me and I'm grateful for it. But I'm also thankful for all the people that have kind of set that groundstone for me, you know, in the sense of the ADA and some of those politicians that did that. You know Casey it doesn't surprise me at all that you're, you take the stand in the position that's extremely positive position it's easy from someone sitting in my chair who's not dealing with any of it but from a mental standpoint. So you lost your leg and last October, they had the amputated you had fallen and you broke, unfortunately broke your leg. Take us through the mental, I mean, somewhere in the back of your mind you probably had this fear that this could always happen or maybe one day would happen and then it finally does happen. There's just so much to unpack.

Yeah, there is. Thanks. I mean, I'll take you back a little bit so I lived with the fear of breaking my leg all my career all my life really, and it never happened which is good until recently but. So I retired from competitive golf in my mid 30s or so early 30s and took over the Oregon program. And so, I still played a lot of golf and I hit a lot of golf balls but it's not nearly to the level as when you're competing obviously and so I kind of thought like you know my leg. It hasn't been great even as I gotten older but you know I've learned to manage it, and I'm not competing and so you know I might be doable maybe I get through life with this thing so. And then, as I was getting older. I kind of had this dream like okay I'm 50 and I'm still in decent shape I still had a lot of speed on the golf course and even though I wasn't competing a ton. I still pretty good. And I had, I'll tell you this and tell me if I need going too long.

No, absolutely please. I had this golf epiphany on the range, one day, and this was about three years ago. Phil Mickelson was talking, he's kind of in this goofy zone about talking about his total reset that playing the British Open and kind of using all these terms having fun with it and, and something stuck with me that I needed to do something like that I would go to the range, since I stopped playing competitively, I still love golf and I try to work on my game just because I loved it. And I would go work on three or four things in my swing every day, or it just kind of did it, and I reached a level where I shot pretty much the same thing I was kind of boring and it was like I maxed out, and I would work on my golf swing but I would take video and it looked the same whether I work on it or not I couldn't tell any difference even though in my mind I was grinding on these things right.

And I just said this, this is not. I can do better than this. And I had a total reset vision where I said I'm going to try for one month, if I can play golf without any thought, no swing thought, nothing. I was just going to be an athlete, I was going to look at my target and just hit it there and literally quiet my mind. Instead of having all these thoughts about rotating or whatever in my golf swing right.

I was just going to shut it down and not think for one month and see what happens. Well, lo and behold, I had five weeks of the best golf of my life. I can't even really articulate how different it was, other than it took me about two one hour range sessions to really clear my mind because I couldn't do it initially.

My mind was just so active like thinking about a zillion things right. And I finally forced myself to just like stand over the ball until my mind went quiet, and then I was just going to swing, and I was going to use my authentic swing, whatever it was imperfect whatever. I was just going to swing in silence and see what happens in the first, I went and played. I was like okay here we go I'm going to do this and it felt very uncomfortable and I shot 63 from the tips of using country club.

I was playing with a couple buddies of mine they're like dude what's up. I just, and I told them what I was doing, and I started doing it, and I did it for five weeks before my team showed up at the end of the summer, my team was showing up in September, so I spent all August playing golf, not thinking, and I went to sand hills in Nebraska with some donors. I didn't shoot over 69, maybe one or two times from the tips I did but I never shot over par. I think I average I kept tabs I played 23 times and shot had a scoring average of 67 from the tips that always tough golf courses. And it was statistically different, like when I would play. I was probably two shots better. And I remember thinking like, wow, I got to do this, this is a game changer you know it's like okay I built my golf swing, it is what it is. I need to play golf. And so I talked to my team about it, I was all gung ho about it because I could just, it was just different.

I mean, had I played like that when I played the tour I would have done way way better. So this is what I'm, you know, 47 or almost 48 I'm thinking, okay, I got two years, I'm going for it. So, I was so exciting I remember just that juice of like I'm going to really this is going to be my identity.

This is what I'm going to do. And it's going to be my second chance you know, one time doing it just when I was young, just trying to figure it out now older I was going to do it so that was the dream I was super excited and then you kind of know the story because I had to get my garbage, and I found broke my leg, and unfortunately, you know, those. Sorry. So those dreams, kind of, obviously took a backseat because I was bedridden for a month and so it just now it's been. It just took two years trying to get my leg to heal so long story sorry, I walked out, get my garbage I slip and fall and break my leg, and as I said it wasn't the worst break in the world. When you look at it on x ray but my leg was so weak and so painful that I was literally bedridden, and I mean, it was, it was difficult. It was the most pain I've ever experienced and, and it persisted so let's Casey it was life threatening. But they're not talking about we're not talking about just losing thirst there's other ramifications that you do not want, for sure, and I was fortunate that it wasn't like a compound fracture it was a, it broke but it didn't shatter.

And so, it wasn't life threatening fortunately had it really broke it could have been, you're right. So but I'm so I've spent the last two and a half years trying to get that thing to heal. I did everything I was in a brace I was, you know, taking osteoporosis medicine injections I was injecting myself every night with this medicine to try to get my bone to fill in and, you know, finally after two, two and a half years the doctors like look I'm sorry that's just, there's zero healing, it's not like 3040 50% healed. It's zero percent heal, and I've been doing everything for two years and so you're like well I can't live like this and so obviously I made the decision to amputate it was a tough decision but it really wasn't either because I don't want to live life with a fractured tibia that's broken all day because it's just like every step is torturous.

And so I did it and in the back of my mind Jay was like okay, I played essentially a version of a stack and so golf swing. I could do that with a, if I get a good prosthesis and I'm not in pain and I can stay on my left side I can do this. And it was pretty exciting to me to think about the possibility of trying to compete or just trying to do whatever with a prosthesis so anyway, I had it done in October.

But I'm here to tell you, it's not, it's not easy. I, my story is I had my leg amputated October 15. I had some complications. I was able to get my leg in mid January and try it, and I've been basically getting used to using this leg for the last five six months.

It's been incredibly painful to use it. That on a lot of different levels and so that part's been a little, it's getting better. And I can see the light at the end of the tunnel with it but it hasn't been like you just put your leg on and go it's, it's my stump is incredibly sensitive in places and I've dealt with a lot of phantom pain and whatnot, it is getting better. I'm getting better with my leg. I'm hitting golf balls, a couple times a week.

The problem is, it doesn't work very well for golf and it's hard to explain because people like you'll get through it you'll get better I'm like, look, it, it just doesn't work right. And so, and the best way I can describe it is the leg. I don't have my knee, so I've got an autobox C leg micro compressor knee. It's amazing. But if it's bent, if my knee is my right leg is bent, and I build into that right side on my backswing, the leg collapse, the first time I swung I fall, I fell over.

Okay. And so they have a golf mode where the knee can block at a certain angle. And so as you build into a right leg that slightly bent, you, it won't bend more than that.

And so you can build over your right side, if that makes sense. The problem is, it doesn't release. Come down into the ball. It's, it's frozen, it feels like someone is grabbing your right leg and tackling you as you're swinging, and there's no rotation through you just, you just, you can't even finish it, you swing, it's like you're hitting a punch shot every shot, because you just can't get through it. And I've been trying to do everything I can like I swing with my feet together and wide, put my right leg back and try to angle it different ways but the bottom line is it just, it doesn't react like a normal leg, so I'm trying to learn how to hit the ball, I actually can hit it solidly at times, but it's, it's low, and it's, it, it's just, it's massively short compared to where it was, I mean I've lost so much speed you don't think about, you know, I don't know your body adds a lot of speed as you rotate your hips get out of your legs you're driving there's a lot of stored stretch and power there and when that's not there and shift your arm swinging. That part's been really frustrating because I can kind of feel it like I go out there and I hit shots in the center of the face but they just, they don't go very far, and, and it's very difficult I mean even I haven't, I literally for the golf guide this article I went and played four holes or five whatever holes I played that's it, that's all I played in eight months I hit balls, but I'm just, I'm not ready it's very painful and it's emotionally painful so I just don't know my future, I mean, I'll probably be a pro golfer.

But it's just, it's, it's not what I'd hope and, you know, it is what it is. So, as I said my article I'm, I might my dream that way to compete a little bit is, is faded and now it's, I'm, I've always lived vicariously through my team but it's more my gosh, thank you so much for sharing that story. This is Casey Martin, my friend, coach of the University of Oregon, golf with Jay Dale said Casey as we just wrap this up, I just really appreciate the honesty the, the, the authenticity of that story it's, it's hard not to get emotional with you and the only thing that comes to my mind man is I know you're a strong guy, both mentally and physically and you know what if there's anybody that can be the first one down the path and try to help these great technicians maybe develop something for that right side that can just get you enough stability man I know how fast you swing the club I know how fast you always whipped at about 25 yards past me and it used to piss me off all the time and I know you still got lots of speed. You were in the fairway and I was in the weeds, so that's why you have a good career but yes, thank you.

I did have speed back in my day and I think it's still there but it's, it's, it's not coming out right now. It's just pent up buddy we're just going to try to figure out a way to get it out of there and you're going to unleash it and you're still going to be able to chip and putt like you did and. And best of luck with the University of Oregon and just the whole story we're here in the Midwest we're fans of yours where we appreciate what you've done for the game the story just, you know, how this is such a cool compelling story. Unfortunately your life and I know you've had a lot of pain and down with it but it's uplifting for us. Yeah, well thank you know that means a lot, and I appreciate it. And, you know, people say I wouldn't change anything going back from the struggles, I mean I would.

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