Mike Claiborne . . .Story Teller Extraordinaire-Sunday, -Golf With Jay Delsing

This is golf with Jay Delsingh. A two-time college All-American at UCLA. A participant in nearly 700 PGA Tour events.

Seven professional wins to his credit. Over 30 years of professional golf experience. This is Golf with Jay Delsingh. Hey, good morning. Golf with Jay Delsingh here. I'm your host Jay.

I got Pearly. Hang on a second. Author, Caddy, college graduate. Let's see, a business owner, business seller. Let's see, I got to make sure I do everything right.

Caddy. I'm doing great. Doing great. Lots to talk about. I'll tell you, even in this kind of late time of the year, we sure are still getting some great golf.

Yeah, we absolutely are. We had the BMW finish with Shane Lowry winning. We had the Ascension Charity Classic with another Irishman, Padraig Harrington, winning in kind of an exciting and dramatic Pac-9. And I got to emcee the Ascension Celebrity Challenge with Lee Trevino, Nancy Lopez, Bill Irwin, the Chief, Craig Berube, the Wizard, Ozzie Smith, and the great Ryan O'Reilly, the captain of the St. Louis Blues. What a blast we had.

We also had Ron Kay, who's the CEO of Stiefel, who was kind enough to donate, I don't know how much money, but somewhere between $50,000 and $100,000 of his own money to the charity. So he played as a kind of wild card. Really a fun guy, John, as a wild card.

And he did a couple mulligans in there for both teams. It was great. It was really fun.

Again, charity winds up winning. That's fantastic. Well, you did a good job out there. And I want to hear a little bit, when we get a chance to talk about how Nancy Lopez was looking and playing out there. Well, let's just start.

Let's just start. We've got a great interview with Mike Claiborne. Mike Claiborne is doing on assignment with the St. Louis Cardinals.

But this is a guy that's been with the Blues. He's a broadcaster. He's a storyteller extraordinaire. He's a terrific guy. He's a great ambassador for St. Louis. He's also done Rams work when the Rams were here.

There's nothing that he hasn't done. And this man is this guy connected from Charles Barkley to Michael Jordan to on and on and on. This guy took Cedric the entertainer, who's actually a St. Louis guy.

So he is Mike Claiborne is a character. He is a phenomenal representative of St. Louis and just a really good guy, fun guy to talk to. I can tell you really enjoyed yourself. And he does have good stories. I like this style a lot. It's a very relaxed style pearl. It's, you know, laid back and, and, and just kind of lets it come to him. I really enjoyed it. We also have Andy Crow, who is our spotlight this week and a really cool, interesting guy at the country club of St. Albans, who's the general manager at this point.

But he wears a lot of different hats and a very interesting guy. But let's, let's talk about this celebrity challenge. The shootout at Ascension.

It happened on Saturday. We let the lead group, which was Bernard, how's this for a lead group, Bernard Langer, Patty Harrington, Ernie Els. How's that for star studded leaderboard? I mean, pretty stout and three actually very different players.

It was fun to watch the difference of the games and the different stages of the games are in. And I can't wait to talk about Patrick Harrington's, Padraig Harrington's power. My gosh, can that guy club head speed and absolutely compress that golf ball. Very, very, very impressive.

Well, we can start there. I mean, Padraig has picked up at least 30 yards and he is working his butt off on speed training. You can see he has swinging the club fast, even his practice swings. I'm like, damn, he was moving, pushing air and moving dirt and all sorts of stuff with those practice swings.

He was, he was phenomenal. But anyway, so we let that leader group clear and give them about two or three holes. And then we had the teams were Nancy Lopez, Ozzie Smith and Craig Berube. And they were representing PGA reach, which was awesome. And then on the other side of the fence, we had Ryan O'Reilly, Hale Irwin and Lee Trevino. And they were representing the first Tia St. Louis.

So first of all, no one lost. Each group started with something like $8,500 in the bank. Ron was throwing $10,000 shots all over the place. I'm like, Ron, I'm going to help you spend some of your money.

He goes, come on, let's do it. He's like an extra $10,000 for closest to the pin on this part three, as long as you make the putt. And that was the very first hole we played, Pearl. So I got to tell you, Ryan O'Reilly and Craig Berube stuffed it in on number 10 on the west course. Ryan O'Reilly hit a nine iron from 165 yards to about 11 feet or so right behind the flagstick. And the chief hit this little bitty fade left of the flag to about seven feet right out of the hopper. And we had a great crowd, John.

We had several hundred people following us around. So it was really something special. I'll be dang if it didn't take Ron Kay to knock in a mulligan for the team at the first tee for Trevino, Irwin and Ryan O'Reilly. So they got their birdie.

And then who stepped up first? The chief, Craig Berube hit these iron shot ender and he knocked the putt in and off they roll with two twos on number 10. Nice. Nice. Yeah. Fun when the guys play good, they can relax and makes it that much more fun for everybody. Pearl, that's going to wrap up the on the range segment.

I didn't even say this was the on the range segment. It's brought to you by the Gateway section of the PGA. And we appreciate all those men and women. We also still have our golf ball contest. Send me an email. J at J. Delson golf dot com.

Put balls in the subject matter. Put balls in there somewhere and I will enter your name in the drawing to win some new TP five golf balls. Compliment compliments of our buddy Jeff Thornhill at Taylor Made Golf. We're tipping our cap, John, and a tip of the cap is brought to you by the Dean team.

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Don't go anywhere. We're going to be back with the front nine and our interview with Mike Claiborne. This is golf with Jay Delson on the range is presented by the Gateway section of the PGA.

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The Dean team for all your car buying needs. Good morning. This is Golf with Jay Delsing and welcome to the Gateway PGA Spotlight. I'm visiting with Andy Crow from St. Albans. Andy, good morning. Good morning, Jay.

How are you doing this morning? Just great. Thanks so much for joining us. So I understand that you have been nominated the Bill Strasburg award this year. PGA Professional Development Award. Tell us a little bit. First of all, congratulations. Tell us a little bit about what's going on in your world out at St. Albans.

Yeah, no, absolutely. I always always humbled to be considered for any of the awards that the PGA does. I mean, I'm sure as connected as you are, you're aware, you know, Nathan Carnes and his bid to be the national secretary for the PGA of America and be the first gateway section member to to to end up in a national board position, which would make all of us as golf professionals very proud. But yeah, I got thrust into to more of a management role or pretty early on in my career. I was what they call, you know, I consider a blue blood golf pro on the golf shop and ran a very active club down in Florida. And GM left in the middle of a renovation and I got thrust into it and figured out pretty quickly that I needed to learn more. So I've kind of made it a career, you know, goal of mine is to stay educated and continuing to grow from an education standpoint. So, you know, I'm working on my what is now my CC with this Club Managers Association, but also and once I wrap that up, which I'm actually going to be in Cornell in October to finish that part of my my education up, I'm going to start on my master's professional with the PGA of America. So, you know, a lot a lot of continuing education over my career.

But, you know, that that's led me to be able to help. You know, we've got a great director of golf just went here at St. Albans and, you know, a pretty heavy staff of PGA members and we're proud of, you know, what we're doing and how we're growing and and the things we're able to help the club do. Joe Schwinn is one of my favorite human beings of all time at your club is just spectacular. The two golf courses the setting is I idealic but so Andy when it comes to the master professional certification that is super huge deal in the PGA of America world that there's only 300 I think there's only 357 of those folks throughout the entire system. Yeah, yeah, and I actually have my CCM through the club managers and there's about now there may be 80 of us around the country now that are PGA members that also have the club manager certification and I think once I have my CC there's less than 10. And I think there's only one other thing Robin Sheldon is it like Newport Beach Country Club out in California is the only master professional that has a CCM so I'm trying to once through get through all of this, you know, it'll be, it'll be a maybe one of one in the entire country that will have all these certifications but you know a lot of it is I turned 53 last month and you know how do you keep yourself engaged and challenged and growing and, you know, a lot of that education allows me to I think more effectively mentor and assist golf professionals coming up and have those conversations with them.

Do you want to be a GM. Do you want to be a, you know, director of instruction and what you know what are your goals and aspirations, what are the things that you think you want to do and, you know, our careers branched into a lot of different, a lot of different segments of the business, almost definitely Andy I mean the difference between being a club manager, or going into the management side, and a director of instruction, or like night and day I mean that is not something you just walk from one room to the other and pick up easily know yeah far, far from it and I've, and I've learned the hard way on a lot of those kind of different factors and situations that you have to deal with, but, you know, get a lot of questions from up and coming golf professionals and so you know it's, it's, I think it makes it a lot more fun for me to be able to help mentor golf professionals in those situations and Gideon Traub who was a professional under me when I was at Forest Hills is now up at Skokie in Chicago, but he took a job where he was going to own the golf shop and he had never done that, you know Marvin Harada is over at sunset now and the assistants and the co head professionals we have here Zach and Kurt and you know how you can help guide them into roles that they see you're going to be fulfilling and, and, you know, fun for them to do. This is the gateway spotlight, brought to you by the gateway section of the PGA and this is Andy Crow out of country called the St. Albans any keep doing what you're doing. I've heard nothing but great things out at St. Albans I tried to stay in touch with my buddy Joe, and I know you have Paul Montana who's your director of instruction who's also doing great stuff. Thanks for all you do for golf in this section and good luck with these future certifications, I appreciate it need to come out and play and maybe we can throw Ozzy in and you meet Joe and Ozzy can get out as a foursome and play a little golf so it's not just all administrating, that would be a great foursome wouldn't it.

Yeah, I'd have a lot of fun you may have less than me. I am proud to welcome the gateway section of the PGA back to my show, whether you're pulling into your favorite driving range public golf course or country club, there is an excellent chance that the staff there is part of the over 300 men and women PGA professionals and over 100 facilities that make up our gateway section, I grew up watching so many of these fine men and women getting to the golf course at dawn, leaving at dusk spending their entire day running events giving lessons and growing this great game PGA drive chip and pot PGA hope and the fantastic PGA junior league are a few of the examples of the programs run by these same PGA professionals go to gateway pga.org to learn more or to find your next PGA professional for your next lesson, go to pga.com the gateway PGA growing the game we love. Well, we just wrapped up our second ascension charity classic presented by Emerson at Norwood Hills, guys, one of the highlights of the massive hospitality presence was our veterans and first responders viewing deck, brought to you by Marco final numbers are not in yet but as of the Friday before the tournament September 2, we had over 700 of our men, women, first responders and firefighters apply for their complimentary tickets. Wow, what a great turnout. Thank you, Marco and for all you do in our community. And by the way, the Marco and viewing deck idea is now being implemented at other tour events. Hey, this is Jay delsing for SSM health physical therapy, our golf program has the same screening techniques and technology as the pros on the PGA tour use SSM health physical therapy as the title is performance Institute trained physical therapists that can perform the TPI screening on you, as well as use a cave s 3d motion capture system proper posture alignment, etc can help you keep your game right down the middle.

We have 80 locations in the same this area call 80518 1626 or visit them on the web at SSM physical therapy.com your therapy, our passion. Hey, welcome back. This is golf with Jay delsing. I'm Jay delsing I got john pearls here with me, and we are headed to the front nine, and it's brought to you by the Ascension charity classic we just wrapped it up one week ago today, pondering Harrington made a bogey on the last old kind of leaked a little oil coming in but played great golf. And we got a great champion john so we are headed to this Mike Claiborne interview and Mike Claiborne is a great guy. He is a native St. Louis and had been here his whole life. He was an athlete, went to college played a little football got hurt realized that he was interested in a little broadcasting, and the rest is kind of history he has been with a who's who of people in and out of St. Louis, the athletes, the broadcasters jack buck Harry carry Bob Costas you name it Bob Ramsey. So let's go listen to this first half the interview with our buddy Mike Claiborne claims thanks so much for joining me, Jay, you know what, it's a pleasure for me, you and I to sit down and do this we've been talking about it.

We have so many things in common so many mutual friends and for us to sit down here and chew the fat today I'm really looking forward to claims that we grew up so similarly take us back to the way you grew up I know you played multiple sports at the Andre but take us back to what family life was like for you as a little guy here in the loo. Man, I had a great setup man my parents were terrific. My dad was in law enforcement. My mother was, she was a nurse out of nursing school and then she worked for a company who provided prenatal care to young women. And so she was kind of with those programs she was always trying to find some community involved just trying to help people.

And so between the two of them. I had a ball, and my dad was also involved in the group. They used to promote concerts in St. Louis and any major concert became St. Louis it was a teal auditorium. They normally had their fingerprints on it and eventually Steve Shankman got involved and he took it to another level so between entertainment and just sports I was having the time of my life man. It's something so tell us a little bit about your sporting life so you played a bunch of different sports in high school. Yeah, you know, back then, I think you were almost, you know, it was like an unwritten rule that you go play it because you couldn't stay home.

You know my dad was like look, you got to find something to do legal. So I suggest a sport, because you're not gonna stay here watch cartoons and sit around the house, if you want to find some work for you to do. But yeah, you know whatever the season was, you know, I was planning. And, you know, some cases I was playing two of them but, you know, it was, I think J for me. I always wanted to play something. And I realized that maybe I may not have the size of the skill to be pro.

So let me find something else to do. So I was kind of narrowed with broadcasting and listen to Harry Caray and Jack Buck and Mike Shannon, people like that. But yeah, I played everything man basketball, football, baseball, hockey, you name it, I was out there trying, having a good time doing it.

You know, we see this all the time nowadays where these, these good athletes are forced to choose and I just think it's a giant miss. Man, like you said, the leaves started changing the football came out the but the basketball was always around a baseball gloves were always there too and we had hockey sticks going there too. Everything was available. Yeah, it was. And, you know, your parents knew where you were every day. You, the same crew that you ran with in football season was probably on the basketball team sitting at the end of the bench giving up files. You had some guys who were playing baseball or track.

So I mean, and it was your same crew. And the ironic thing for me. I still run for some of those guys, I you know I still have friends from the second grade that I still hang out with, and I really think that that's something that's missing in our society where, as you mentioned, you know, it's almost required where you have to play a sport 13 months out of the year. And if you don't then there's some sort of unofficial punishment where you don't play. I don't know where we missed the boat on that but I really think it's done a disservice and it's amazing. And you run across a lot of athletes who all tell you when they play they play more than one sport.

I mean, at some point you know you listen to Adam Wainwright, you know, I think Adam Wainwright probably would have been the Catholic, as many sports as he played from soccer to football or basketball and golf and obviously baseball. That's something that's lost in our society and I wish we could get it back but I think the problem we have now Jay is up these travel teams select teams, whatever you want to call it where a parent has a right out of big check so his kid can be on a team, and they travel a little bit somewhere. And if you don't write out to check them you don't play unless you're really gifted player and they find a way to take care of you but, you know, I just think we're missing it man because I just think there's just so much fun and so much you can learn about people that makes it special.

Oh claims the lessons that the games have taught me and you and it just goes on and on. The great jack Nicholas was at the Ascension charity classic lunch and last year he said exactly what you just said we are missing the boat as a society with what we're doing with our kids in sport. Well, I had two daughters, and I was that parent who I didn't have much to say the coaches because I figured that job was hard enough without some guy like me walking up to him, but they found a couple sports to play, and I'll never forget.

My kid was playing basketball and incarnate word and they want to stay championship. And she said, you know, that's it for me, and I'm like, What do you mean, you know, and she said, I want to try something else. And the very next year she had a golf club in her. And play her senior year high school and golf, and had a ball and one of the things we still do and she's in town, or when she and her sister were growing up at the same time, I would when I was off on a Sunday. We go over to know what he does and play nine holes.

Go back and eat, and that way I can listen about what's going on in their world. And I miss it because they're both adults, and they both live out of town. But it's those little bonding moments that you have that you really cherish once they get out of the house and out of your pocket. Oh claims and you can absolutely still use that little bit of golf that she played in her business. I know that your daughters are very successful and I'm sure they do that because that's a little bit of what my daughters are doing.

Yeah, and you know what, here's the thing. They don't have to be ready to go out on the tour, as long as they can have some fun with it. And you know what, like any other sport, put a little effort into it, put a little work into it. And that way I guarantee if you work hard at having fun, I guarantee you will, you will be successful, and you'll, you'll feel like I want to come back and do this again. And in their case, it's something that, you know, I'm happy about because they played more than one sport.

They had multiple friends that they still are in touch with today. And, you know, I didn't have any rules about sports other than show up and play hard. Don't cheat. Don't cheat your teammates.

And if you do those things, you'll have a good time. There's so much to be said, Justin, that, that, that small, we could unpack that for hours, but I love that. So, so Cleves, you went down to Fisk University down in Nashville. What was that like? Because I know you kind of started your broadcasting down in college a little bit. Well, so I started at Tennessee State and we had a coach named John Merritt, God rest his soul. I had a pretty good freshman year. And he came, he said, well, how do you think you did this year? I said, well, you know, I learned a lot looking forward to next year. He said, yeah, that's what I want to talk to you about. He said, I got some kids coming in from an area I recruit in Georgia and I just don't know how much playing time you're going to get because I got to make sure these kids play. And I understood. He said, however, there is a school right down the street that you can go down there and play and you will be as good of a player as they're going to have. He said, oh, by the way, they won a conference championship last year. And I said, OK. He said, oh, I forgot to tell you the ratio of women to men is like eight to one. And I'm like, where do you sign up at? Send me over.

You know, Jay, had he put that on the hook first? He didn't have to give me the whole spiel about playing football. You know, all you got to do is meet one farmer's daughter, man.

Are you good to go? So anyway, I went there, got hurt. And so the guy who ran a radio station, he said, you know, we talk all the time. He said, I really know the sports thing. He said, have you ever thought about getting in the broadcast?

I said, no. He said, why don't you be the color analyst on our football games on the school station? And I was like, well, yeah, I know the place so I could probably help out on that. And that's what kind of got bit me. And then I had like a regular sports show.

Remember how Brent Musburger used to have that little five minute deal every day? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I kind of had something like that to call sports of all sorts. And I did that and was having real fun with it.

Wrote for the school newspaper. And with every day that passed, there was one less day I was interested in playing anymore until they had a hockey tryouts over at Vanderbilt. And I wanted to go over there, you know, see what I could do there. And I had fun with that. But the bottom line was I knew that I wanted to be involved in sports and it wasn't going to be on the playing surface.

I wanted to do something else. And so one thing led to another. When I got out of school, I came back to St. Louis and was writing for St. Louis American.

And Jim Holder, great friend, he and I were talking one day at a football cardinal practice. And he's we were just talking. So like about a couple of months later, I called him about a schedule or something. He said, hey, how'd you like to come on sports open line? I was like, well, let me think.

Yeah, I can do that. You know, so that's how I started was February 12. I believe it was 19. I think it was February 12, 1981 was the first time I was ever on.

And the rest is just been just fun, man. And did that for 10 years. Went to start the all sports station with Bob Ramsey and Rick Wallace and had that run the first time with Rich Gray. So when that station went away, we rammer and I went over to I think it was WRTH at the time.

Well, we convinced them that we could do a show and they changed a call. Letters went all sports and did that up until 2006 and went with the Cardinals and been there ever since. And so it's been fun, man.

I don't have any regrets about anything I've done in this business. I've covered every major event. I met every great athlete in various sports and just enjoy myself. Man, represented athletes for a while and had fun with that, had a couple of first round draft choices. You know, it was nothing more fun than when your guy is in the Super Bowl or your guys in the NBA finals, you know, because you you share with them.

You know, you you're rooting for them. So, yeah, you know, Jay has been terrific in this game of golf that I'm in. So let me tell you this story.

So I had a roommate. His name was Ike Jones. He's about six foot six, 220 pounds, built like a V. All right. Big square shoulders. And Jay, he could crush it.

All right. He was the first African-American, all-American in Division three. And I mean, he could play. And he ended up playing as a career. He worked for Exxon when he got out of school because he couldn't get a sponsor to go on a tour and kind of hustled his way through Exxon and got some some dealerships out of it because he played golf with a guy who was a really good player at the University of Texas. And he set him up.

There's no doubt about it. You know, he had him up by two on front nine. He didn't want to press and one thing led to another. So he was the first guy that took me out and I had no idea what I was doing. And but I stayed with it. And then Dan Reardon, who you would know really well, Dan Reardon and I were doing UMSL basketball and he started to talk to me about golf. So I went out a couple of times with him. And one thing led to another. And I'm saying, all right, I want to join one of these country clubs. And Jay Randolph senior said, you really sure you want to do that?

I said, yep. And so I ended up joining Glen Echo and I was there for a few years. Great people over there. And then as time went on, I found my way down at Norwood Hills because I think I knew more people there.

And, you know, you didn't need a tee tie. Just walked over and started playing. And it's been great for me. I just had so much fun with the place of the best courses in the world.

And and fortunately, baseball can take you into different cities where you can do that. So it's been it's been fun. This is golf with Jay Delsing and I'm visiting with Missouri Hall of Famer Mike Claiborne. Claiborne, one of the things I want to kind of walk back a little bit is that some of the folks in your life, you mentioned Ram or Bob Ramsey, the great Bob Ramsey is such such. He's just an icon here in town. You were hanging around with Jack Buck.

You mentioned Harry Carey and and and Mike Shannon as well. But claims you have a wonderful style about you. There is something so disarming when you're doing an interview. It's more conversational. It's less like you're you're you're almost not interrogating someone. Talk to us a little bit about that, because every time I hear you, it just seems to come to mind.

Well, I appreciate you saying it. I've tried to get a feel for the room when it comes to interviewing people. And, you know, some people have to take notes and they've got a series of questions they want to ask them. But I've always felt like if I was paying more attention to the notes, I wasn't paying attention to an answer where I could be interviewing a guy. And I asked him a question.

He says, oh, yeah, Mike, by the way, I just robbed a bank. And I go on to the next question instead of going to, you know, so I think that everybody has their own style. But I want it to be a conversation, not an interview. You know, I want them to have a comfort level where if there is a tough question, challenging question, whatever you want to call it, it's going to be asked in a respectful manner. It's going to be asked in a manner where here's your opportunity to respond to something maybe you feel like you need to clear air about. But it's never a gotcha moment, you know, and I think sometimes we see people who want to get a rise out of somebody in a very awkward situation. You know, I've been on both sides of this thing and I just think you can get more out of people if they feel like there's a comfort level.

Now, again, we may not agree, but at least you're going to have your chance to say what you have to say. And I've been fortunate enough to always interview people or talk to people in their moment of glory. They just come off a real high, you know, that's like doing start a game. I mean, I've never had a guy that was mad after they won a game and didn't want to talk.

So I think it's environment. But you got to be able to read the room. You got to be I think being a better listener is better than being a talker.

If you do that, you'd be amazed at what you can get out of people once they feel like you're disarming and you're not out to make their afternoon or night miserable. Well, who would you say had the biggest influence? And that may be a very loaded question to me. Fair to answer because you know, you know, it's great.

It's a good question. And I think I've learned a lot from everybody. Jack Buck was very good with his time with me and talking to me. And, you know, he had a laid back style. Bob Gibson was terrific working with him. Mike Shannon, Mike Shannon taught me a lot of things about a how to have a good time. Be how to make sure people are comfortable, but also don't take any guff off of them. You know, I mean, it's not like I'm looking for a fistfight or anything, but if you don't want to do it, that's fine. Don't do it.

But we're not going to sit here and go to war over. But I think Mike had a real impact as far as being a great friend and watching him raise his six kids. And somebody read Mike's most recent book and Mike kind of describes all of his kids. And somewhere in that description of six kids, there's Mike Claiborne where he talks about like one of his kids. And then he goes to his other kid, Aaron. So I was kind of like the next to last kid of his crew.

And so his kids will even say, well, he's the seventh Shannon, you know. And so just being around him and watching how he was with his kids, it really kind of gave me a foundation and how to deal with mine. And so I think Mike's had a great impact. Jack had a really good impact.

Bob Ramsey, you mentioned him earlier, you know, Rammer is one of my best friends. I'll tell you another guy, Jay Randolph, and Jay Jr., they both have had a huge impact. Jay is one of the great ambassadors. I mean, you can ask Jay about a town. Hey, Jay, what about Coldwater, Arkansas?

Ah, yes, they've got great courses right off the highway and a great restaurant there. Major D's name is Al. Go in and tell him you know me and, you know, maybe you can get a good taste. I mean, he knew everybody. And I've kind of wavered in that direction, I think maybe because I'm getting old. But there's very few places where I can't go and I'm not going to know someone or someone's not going to know me. And, you know, when you travel as much as we do, you have those friends in those different cities that you look forward to seeing. And, you know, they're still there waiting for you. And that's been the fun part of this. And I learned that from Mike as well, how you treat people.

You know, everybody deserves to be treated fairly and and have fun with them all. And so that's been fun. But there's been a lot of people who have fingerprints on my development. You know, claims that the graciousness just pours out of you here is it's so interesting when you start thinking about some of the some of the players that you've been hanging around. I know you're you're tight with Charles Barkley. I know you did so much with Bob Gibson. But when you did the shows at Mike Shannon's restaurant after the after the games, that was some of the best radio I've ever heard. Well, I appreciate you saying it was some of the most fun I've ever had. And Mike knew so many people and I knew people and we could get him to come over. And, you know, sometimes you didn't know what you were going to get.

And the best example was Randy Johnson, who kind of had a terse relationship with the media, was not fun guy to be around. So Mike met Randy because Randy Johnson wanted to meet Bob Gibson and Mike had set it up where, you know, Randy just want to talk to another great pitcher. So Mike said, hey, the next time you're in town, why don't you come on the show? He's like, yeah, OK.

So I've never done it before, but it sounds like we could have some fun. So we do the show for about an hour and shows over where he looks around, he says, that's all that's it. Mike said, yeah. He said, man, he said, I think I've been missing something. He said, I know it can't always be this way. And Mike said, no, it's not.

But when you walk in these doors, it's going to be that way. And he couldn't have been he couldn't have been a nicer person as he finished up his career. But we've had so many good people that were able to come on that show that, you know, that you're going to laugh. One thing, Jay, there's no doubt you were going to laugh, but you also found a way that you were going to learn something about someone. And I developed a lot of good relationships with people because of that show, because we still see each other on the road or in their respective city.

And now that Mike's not traveling, the first question they ask me is not how you're doing, but how's Mike? And I just think it shows the impact that he's had on so many, you know, claims he really has. And he brought such a down to earth storytelling, old school mentality to the game where it may not have been correct grammatically and it may not have even been in the English language. But you sure as hell knew what was going on on the field.

There's no doubt. And, you know, Mike didn't go to Syracuse to be a broadcaster or J school at Mizzou. You know, this is a guy who came right off the field, worked in a ticket office for one year. And next thing you know, he's behind the microphone. And I think the Jack Buck influence in Jack helping Mike along the way really formed him into being a very good broadcaster. And, you know, it didn't hurt for Mike to work with John Rooney, who, in my opinion, is the most formatically sound broadcaster I've ever heard.

And I work with him every night. And to watch his preparation and to see what he puts into making sure he gets it right is something I've truly enjoyed. And when John and Mike were working together, man, Mike would just sit back and just say, well, I don't have to worry about this guy. And he carried his water and Mike carried his. And it was a great combination. All right, John, that's going to wrap up the first half of this interview, but don't go anywhere. We'll be back with the back nine and more from Mike Clavell. This is golf with Jay Delson. Powers Insurance is a family owned agency right here in St. Louis that specializes in providing personalized coverage for the client who has a lot going on at Powers. They understand that you and your life do not fit in a simple box.

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314-647-8054. Simplest message ever. John, how cool is CJ? I just smile when I'm just thinking of him.

He's like a skater, dude, crazy, golf, techie, wild man. And I thoroughly enjoyed it. I learned so much being around him. And I think, I don't know, it's also so new to me, but I'm very excited about what's going on. Oh, I am too. I am too.

We're working on trying to expedite these clubs for you to get them in your hand. Can't wait. We're getting you an entirely new set, John. An entire new set. Not entirely. You're supposed to get a new set every 12 to 15 years, aren't you?

But you're more on the 30 to 35 year plan. So we got to get you, we got to bump that up a little bit. So John, I wanted to give you a quick shot at your thoughts on the first half of the Mike Claiborne interview. I just love the stories how these guys get to where they are.

And he's no difference for him. The fact that he played the sports from the early days, that you guys had that conversation, that he played different sports to hone his craft now. It was just a lot of fun to listen to him. You and him connected really well. We're going to go right back to the second half of the Mike Claiborne interview. I hope you enjoy it.

But I want to go next is you're a man of color. We just had one of the coolest things that I've been able to be associated with with the APGA, which is Advocate PGA event you hosted and you emceed at Glen Echo last week. I enjoyed it immensely to see these young guys that maybe one of them makes a tour one day and maybe one of them comes back and plays in the tournament in St. Louis.

It's just great to see. Jay, for people of color, this sport is fairly new. Before Tiger, you had Lee Elder and before Lee Elder, you had Charlie Sifford, but you had black guys who had to play in separate tournaments. Obviously, Tiger moved the needle and we've seen so many people progress, not necessarily on the tour, but just as far as their interest in golf. When you think about the members, for instance, at Glen Echo, African-American members are there and you see more and more guys participating. Whether they go out on a tour or whether they just want to hang out with their buds, they're obsessed with it. That's been a great thing and to see this thing come to fruition with a tournament in St. Louis at Glen Echo, the oldest course, private course, Western Mississippi, where I used to be a member, was really a good thing.

I'm looking forward to watching it grow. As I was saying, there's not a place I can't go where I'm not going to know anyone. The guy who coordinates that tournament, he and I were standing there talking and he said, I said, where else do you guys go? He said, we're going to Bermuda. I said, I got a guy there I want you to meet, one of my oldest friends in life. He's been there for 25 years and plays golf three or four days a week.

I've already connected those two. He's got somewhere to hang out and somebody who knows the island. It's not that big, but that's the other thing I enjoy doing is networking people and putting people together.

You'd just be amazed at who you can run into that way. You may work for the Cardinals now, man, but you're a life ambassador. When I sat up there and listened to you do this at Glen Echo and Darty Business Solutions was the presenting sponsor along with Ascension. Gosh, what those guys are doing for our community is just amazing.

You know what, Mike, I want to get your take on this. It's not a universal statement, but for me, when I played in sport, I didn't see color. I just saw people.

When I see golf, I don't think of color. When I watch and meet these young guys and realize that they have been limited, it pisses me off. I want to make it a difference. From your perspective, I'm sure it hasn't been that way.

I'm sure you have a different take. Well, Jay, you have made a difference. Just your interest in how you have carried yourself with people that don't look like you. People mention your name in Norwood and everybody brightens up when they hear your name because they know you've been just an outgoing person. You're right.

You haven't displayed that thing of being, well, I don't hang out with him because he doesn't look like me. You've been colorblind. People appreciate that. But yeah, it was challenging. I remember when the PGA was here in 92, I was having an issue with a woman who was directing parking. I had this parking pass that had me on this lot. I pull up.

She's looking at the pass, holding it up under the light. I said, do we have a problem here? She said, you really shouldn't be here. I said, what do you mean? She said, you know what I'm talking about. I was like, okay. I was at that point where I was like, if your husband or son was here, he'd get one right in the chops. I can't touch you. But they would pay the price for what you said. You get mad. You get upset because you feel like, hey, look, I'm just out here trying to enjoy some golf. Now you want to play the color card.

That's not right. But the bottom line is I think we progressed a great deal, especially in St. Louis. I think the Ascension Tournament has done a lot.

What Nick Ragon has done and all the people who work with it, it has certainly opened up a door that I don't think was really that common for people of color. I think golf in St. Louis has come a lot further than people would ever be willing to admit because they didn't really have a base. Now you're going to have some restricted clubs in St. Louis. There's a good chance.

There's a couple of courses. Even if I did win the Powerball, I probably wouldn't be in the 19th hole having a cold one. But with that said, there's so many other opportunities that have been presented by various clubs in St. Louis where they welcome and, you know, let's face it, some of these guys can play. And it's been fun to watch. And now we're starting to see younger kids play. My daughter was the first African-American to play in her conference. She went to incarnate in high school. Think about that. You know, and so nobody looked like her at the events. But you know what?

She had been taught the lesson. Look, you don't have my dad once told me, he said, listen, man, you don't have that kind of time to hate somebody because they don't like you or they hate you. You're not on the planet that long. So why don't you try and find something else to do constructive and keep it moving? And I always felt that way. And I kind of convey that to my kids. Look, we don't have that kind of time. You know, if you want to get stuff, some I can show you some other things get pissed off. Other than this, there's a time and place for that, but not here. So, you know, the watching the St. Louis now, I think golf.

I think golf is really taking some huge steps to be inclusive. Powers Insurance is a family owned agency right here in St. Louis that specializes in providing personalized coverage for the client who has a lot going on. At Powers, they understand that you and your life do not fit in a simple box.

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618-556-7951. John, first, before we get to the Mike Claiborne interview, I got to tell all of our listeners on October 16th, you and I are going to be doing a live broadcast at Wild Crush on Sunday, October 16th from 3 to 4. And the first 10 people that come in, we're buying them a beer or a glass of wine or a cocktail, whatever they want. Love it. I love it.

It's a wonderful place. There'll be a lot of energy for us to do that and that'll be a lot of fun. And then what we're going to do after the show, Pearl will hang around, talk a little golf if people want to hang around and chit chat. You'll give some lessons, maybe do a little stand up.

What else can you do, Pearl? I can stand up. Yeah, you can stand up. You can fall down. I've actually seen you fall down several times.

You haven't seen me fall down. Yeah, so put that on your calendar, folks. October 16th, Wild Crush. The address is 13360 Clayton Road, Suite 105.

63131 is a zip. Come out and have one with us. Pearl and I are going to be there and we're going to do this show from Wild Crush.

So it is really going to be fun. John, Mike Claiborne is a wonderful storyteller and his relaxed mannerisms, his style is so disarming. I really admire him. That must permeate throughout his life.

You know, I wish I could be one of those guys that can connect with just about anybody. And that's what this guy has done for himself, for his career, etc. Not just the kind of friends he's garnered through the years, but, Jay, the mentors. Who's who, who's been able to influence him and who he's been able to learn from. And beyond that, then still come up with his own style.

He's not copying anybody. He's doing his thing, but he learned a lot. And I just love the respect that he showed for the people that he did learn from and that appreciation. And boy, he seems to really enjoy what he does, too, which is always just the icing on the top of the cake. Right, right.

It's amazing. What does our friend Jordan Peterson say? It's a privilege if you get to pursue something meaningful that you love. Well, that's certainly the goal, and it would be a privilege, because it's not that easy.

It's an easy concept to maybe understand, but to actually accomplish it is pretty dang tough. And I'm sure there's tough days with Mike with the business. I don't think he's saying that there wasn't tough days.

But overall, he's doing what he loves to do, and he's a people person, and he's tied all that in together. I love the stories about you talking about at Shannon's place after the games when the guys would sit down. That had to be a rip-roaring time. You brought me in there one time or two times before, and you talked about a lot of energy. Everybody wants to go and stand around that table. Oh, my gosh. It was just electric in there.

There's no question about it. All right, John, let's talk a little bit about Wentworth, a little bit about the LIV and the PGA Tour, the DP World, all of that. There was the Billy Horschel and the Poulter conversation that looked like a whole hell of a lot of nothing from a distance. It looked like it was something both guys have disarmed.

What did you take? Who else would you think would get into it? Oh, exactly. If you sat there and said, OK, give us one LIV guy and one PGA guy that might go at it, we would have picked both of those 10 to 1 for sure. So I do appreciate that they have fire in their belly on things, whether we agree with them or not. And at the end of the day, it sounded like it was robust, but it was also fair and respectful. Nobody's throwing punches, nobody's screaming at the top of their lungs, you know, that kind of stuff.

You and I wouldn't have done either one of those things, but that's who those guys are. Hey, one thing we can't forget about this, how about the fact that it was a three-day tournament with the passing of the queen? And there's only three rounds.

That's amazing. I mean, we can't relate to that. But, you know, Jay, there was a couple of European players that were really surprised that the tournament went on at all. They thought they were going to cancel the whole tournament. And one or two of them apparently cleared out their lockers and were going home.

That's how sure they were that this was going to shut down. So we might not be able to relate to all of it, but, man, quite a major occurrence in that part of the world. Seven decades? Yeah, amazing. I mean, and you talk about the people and the history of the world and world politics and geopolitics that this queen has been rubbing elbows with, had conversations with, sat down, had dinner with.

I mean, from Churchill to Truman to you name it. I mean, we're talking about it. I was told when it happened, I asked one of the – gosh, I forget – one of the European players. I saw them at the ascension and they said they figured it would be cancelled.

They figured they just shut it all down because it's such a big deal. But let me ask you this. What was your take on Sergio Garcia only playing one round withdrawn and then flying across the Atlantic to go to the Alabama-Texas game? You know, he beats to his own drum, Jay. I'm a Sergio fan. It's one of those cases like I want to see him hit some golf balls. I really don't care about anything else relative to him.

He has not been one of those guys that has carried the mantle very well, and I think that's a little bit unfortunate. But again, I think the way I try to see sports anyway is for the most part I'm going to watch them play their sport, maybe hear what they have to say about their sport, and then that's about it. We all have our choices.

He made his choice and just kind of move on. There were some phenomenal things in that event. Burl, thanks for joining me. It was fun and we've got the start of the wraparound season ongoing today. I think it's the Fortinet Championship in Napa.

I think Max Holm is defending. It's going to be fun. Lots of golf to watch, and you and I will be right here next week, and we'll be talking about it. I've got to tell you, when I reach out to these people and tell them they've won a dozen balls, you'd think I'd given them a million dollars. These people are so grateful. It's really fun. That's awesome. That's awesome.

It's a good program you've got going with it. All right, Burl, until next week, hit them straight, St. Louis. Hey, do you like wine? Have you heard about the hottest new wine bar in St. Louis? It's called Wild Crush Wine Bar, and it's located in town and country on Clayton Road, just behind the strops. Have you ever experienced self-dispensing wine machines?

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