Alan Shipnuck And Blake Sharamatero--Golf With Jay Delsing

This is golf with Jay Delsing, a two-time All-American at UCLA, a participant in nearly 700 PGA Tour events, seven professional wins to his credit, over 30 years of professional golf experience, a member of the St. Louis Sports Hall of Fame. This is Golf with Jay Delsing. Hey, good morning. This is Golf with Jay Delsing. I'm your host, Jay, and I've got my longtime caddy, business owner.

Bro, you got 100 rounds of golf under your belt from the PGA Tour along with, you're an author, successful business guy, you built and sold a business, and now you're just kind of traveling the world and hanging out, man. Welcome to the show. Good morning. What are you buttering me up for? What do you want? Do you have any money? I need to borrow a little bit of your dough that you've made.

No, I spent it all traveling around the world. Yeah, exactly. Like always, our show is brought to you by Darty Business Solutions. Man, we so appreciate Ron Daugherty and the Daugherty Business team, what they do for our community, what they're doing with Access Point around the country, just a variety of really great things. So we really appreciate Daugherty and their support for the show. We formulated the show like around the golf, and our first segment is called the On the Range segment, and it's brought to you by the Gateway section of the PGA. Folks, I don't want you to forget tonight, tonight at four o'clock, we are going to be doing a live show from Wild Crush 13360 Clayton Road, Suite 105. We want to thank the Gateway section, which is the presenting sponsor of the On the Range segment, and we appreciate those men and women in our community that make our golf experience so much better, as well as Jeff Thornhill.

He, with Taylor made golf. Thornhill and his wife, Kim, came by Wild Crush the other day, and just a great, really great people. They supply us with a dozen TP5 golf balls to give away each week to some lucky listener. So just send me an email, Jay at jdelsongolf.com, and that's J-A-Y spelled out on both ends there, and you'll be entered into the drawing. We'd love to hear from you regarding the new format of our show. We'd love to hear from you about the start. Next week, Danny Mac and I are dropping the national podcast called Beyond the Fairways, and so we've had some great guests so far, and Pearly and I have been able to have some of their excerpts on our show.

We started with David Farity, then we went to the great Tom Watson. Last week was Lee Trevino, and this week, we are dropping in some sound bites from Alan Shipner. Now, if you guys don't know Alan, Alan is a golf writer and just a great writer in general, and he wrote, his most recent book is titled Phil the Rip Roaring Biography of Golf's Most Colorful Superstar, and man, it is an easy read, folks.

It is a great read. Before we get into some of Alan's drop-ins that we have for Alan, you know, it's interesting, John, because I got to know Alan pretty dang well. He really has an affinity.

He really likes Phil Mickelson deep down. You know that? Yeah, kind of, but man, it's edgy, isn't it? Maybe that's why the book's interesting.

It is. Right, Pearl, because I think that the more this onion got peeled away, the more you understand Phil is really a complicated guy. Let's get into this first drop-in by Alan. I asked Alan, why did you write this book?

I mean, it was really 30 years in the making. My first year covering the tour at Sports Illustrated was 1994, and that was really Phil's second full season out there, and I was just, I was always drawn to him. You know, he's a charismatic guy.

We know that. He's really fun to watch. We weren't that far apart in age, and we shared California roots, and I became friendly with Amy and Bones and the people around them.

They're all great talkers. You know, it's one of the secrets to Phil's popularity is that even when he was like standoffish with the media or would just blow us off entirely after a bad round, the people around him were always agreeable, and they'd still fill up your notebook. Our careers kind of parallel each other, and you know, having gone through all the ups and downs with Phil, you know, vicariously. When he was a can't miss kid and then couldn't win the big one, and then he finally broke through, and then looked like he was on the verge of supplanting Tiger, and then he set himself on fire at wing foot, and then, you know, he won the Masters for Amy, and she had cancer, and then played maybe the greatest round of his life at Muirfield. Like, it was just, it's been very cinematic his whole career, and then you throw in all the controversies, all the times he's, you know, he's just a natural born muckraker. That's one of the things I like about Phil.

I mean, he loves to stir the pot, and some people might say the same thing about me. So it was just, he had a big complicated life, and that lends itself to a really good story. There's a lot of reasons to write a book, but I thought that was really interesting. Yeah, it is.

But how would we write a book about each other? I mean, it's more than a fine line. It's clearly stepping over the line.

Just trying not to step over too far seems like, it seems like to me. Well, because when this thing came out, Alan told Phil he's gonna write this book, and he kind of had Phil's blessing until this LIV thing got out of hand and became this monster that could, Phil couldn't control himself. And, oh boy, is this, it's been interesting, and I loved Alan's next soundbite, Pearl, that we talk about him as he describes Phil Mickelson.

Exceedingly complex and contradictory. There are multitudes that live within him. Everything you ever heard about Phil is probably true. I mean, he can be incredibly generous and gracious. We know he's extremely classy in defeat. He's done a lot of large-scale philanthropy and many random acts of kindness, and there's a real human heart in there somewhere. And there's a lot of great things to celebrate about Phil. And I did that in the book, but at the same time, there's a whole other side to it where he can be scheming and vindictive and petty and intensely selfish and greedy.

We all have our layers. We all have our complexities, but with him, it's really exaggerated. It's an incredible polarity. And so that's what I'd say about Phil. I mean, he's just, he's all over the place and that's what makes him interesting. Man, he talks now and I have an entirely different perception of him. And it's almost as this much more tragic, John, than I ever did before.

So why is that? You were out there when he was out there for a long time. Maybe you didn't have a ton of interaction, but what are some of your personal interactions with Phil that gave you clues or gave you feelings and not try not to be so influenced by the book, but what's your firsthand knowledge? Yeah.

And I'll give you a perfect example. We're on a range in San Diego. We're playing at Tori Pell pro.

You may have even been caddying for me. Cause I know you, you looped on there several times, but we had a, um, a local TV person coming by with a camera, uh, and asking us what we'd be doing. If we weren't playing on the PGA tour, she was doing this story. And it was really interesting because Phil was hitting balls next to us and they came to me and I said, Oh man, I love the fact that I'm on the PGA tour, but I would like to either be playing an MLB, a major league baseball player, or I would love to be a musician. I I'm horrible at music, but you know, we just kind of went on and she said, Oh, no one said that before. So we talked a little bit and then she went to that as a surprise, that's not a surprise that nobody said that before. No, I know I was kind of out on an island out there.

Wasn't it anyway? So then anyway, Phil's right next to us. And she says, Phil, this is a cool story. You know, thanks for agreeing to do this.

Here's what we're doing. And he goes, Oh man, that'd be easy. There's only one thing that I would be, and that would be a politician. And she said, really?

No one has said that either. You would be a politician. And he said, yeah. And she said, why? And he said, because I have a better perspective than everyone else. John, I thought he was teasing and I stared in that moment, John, and he was not, and it was terrifying. Well, then he was right.

He should be a politician if that's the way he thinks it is. You should be terrified, John. It was one of those things where I've just went, what? He really said that. And, and she kind of, his response back to her kind of ended the conversation job.

There was nowhere to go. Wow. I know that does say a lot. That does say a lot.

Well, I was, I'm just kind of intrigued by people who were happy that they kind of came out and, uh, some people were, I think there was a lot more people that kind of felt the undertone of, uh, of Phil than, than the cameras pick up because they certainly treat him like a superstar and, uh, beloved by all, uh, when he's on TV. Yeah. Yep. There's no doubt about that.

All right. So the next somebody I thought was really interesting because I asked down, was there anything in the book that you left out that you went, man, I wish I had to put that in. It was really only one. It was just, it was a gambling anecdote where, you know, John Hawkins, who's a, was a kind of a mainstay of the golf beat in the two thousands. And he goes into the locker with Phil and he must interview and goes like, hold on a sec. And she'll pulls out his phone and proceeds to make a huge number of bets.

I think it was college basketball. This is at the height of all the rumors too, like about Phil's gambling that Callaway had had to pay off his gambling debts and all this stuff was floating around in the golf world forever. And for him to be so open for a reporter was shocking.

I can only imagine John Hawkins sitting next to Phil's locker as Phil is placing these bets on college basketball. And it just went on and on and on in his job must've dropped. It's almost like people want to get caught or want to be outed outed. That's the word. Thank you. That I was looking for.

And you wonder why that is. And it seemed like no matter how hard he tried for a long time, it still didn't happen. Lastly, I thought this was probably the most interesting. What were some of the other players' responses to this book and to writing this book? You know, it's been so interesting is how many have sought me out to thank me for writing the book.

Tell me how much they enjoyed it. And about how at least a half dozen players had something along the lines of, you know, somebody needed to write the truth about Phil because we've known who he is this whole time and the fans haven't. And so it was almost like some catharsis that there was a full and complete examination of Phil's life. And you know, John, it just goes, it speaks about the community, the tight-knitness of the PGA tour.

I'm not sure if that's a word or not, but there's that fraternity, John, and there's just 125 to 150 guys traveling around every week. And everybody knows what everybody else is doing. Well, that it's been that way for forever, but back in the Arnie days and the Jack days and the Hogan days, they kept most of it under wraps. But, uh, as the years have gone by, as we know with social media, et cetera, not too many secrets out there that are kept for too terribly long. It's one of those things where you can't really go out and say any that no one really goes out and says anything bad about another player very seldom. Now, John, with LIV and now where there's this, this distinctive divide, it's much easier for people to kind of take shots at the guys that are on one side of the fence to the other. One of the things that we, I want to talk about and we could get, get into it on the, um, the 19th hole because we do have our interview with Blake Sharon Matero.

He is the, um, an instructor down at family golf and learning center. But John, what Phil said about if there was a Ryder cup match between LIV and the PGA tour and Phil just went off, he just went off and said that LIV would smash the PGA tour. And that is comical. They're, they're, they're, they're chumming for a fight. This is like the prize fighters that go back and forth and banter back and forth.

You get everybody to buy the tickets. Well before we go to the interview with Blake Sharon Matero, we are going to do the tip of the cap segment. The tip of the cap is brought to you by the Dean team, Volkswagen of Kirkwood three one four nine six six zero three zero three. And our buddy Colin burnt today I'm tipping my cap.

John, you're going to love this group. I don't know why it's taken me so long to bring them out, but the Evan scholarship and the Evan scholar program, it's all alive and well, it's at almost every country club around the country. It provides scholarships to the, to the men and women that are in these caddy programs to the local state universities. And it is a phenomenal program.

It's been going on for probably close to a hundred years. John, it was alive and well when we were kids, the Evan scholarship program, folks, if you're not familiar with it, look it up. It's fantastic.

And it is supporting young men and women in the game of golf through the caddies all the way through college. And it's just fantastic. John, I think it is fantastic. We've had friends through the years that have gone through that and it's a quite, I've only seen positive to that program. It's absolutely great.

And that's the tip of the cap. It's brought to you by the Dean team, Volkswagen of Kirkwood and our friend Colin burnt three one four nine six six zero three zero three folks. If you need any sort of vehicle, just send me an email, call me, do whatever. I will personally introduce you to Colin. Pearly's got a Colin vehicle. I've got a Colin vehicle. Joe, my daughter's got a column vehicle. He's fantastic.

He can take care of all of your needs. Well, that's going to wrap up the on the range segment, but don't go anywhere because we've got our interview with Blake Sharon Matero. He is down at family golf and learning centers. Folks, if you can subscribe to beyond the fairways, that's our new national podcast beyond the fairways with an S and Pearly and I'll be right back with the front nine and our interview with play. And as always, the golf with Jay Delson show is brought to you by Darty business solutions.

We'll be right back. That was on the range with Jay Delson for news on the latest golf equipment tips and to ask Jay a question, log on to jdelsongolf.com. Coming up, it's the front nine on golf with Jay Delson. I love having Darty business solutions as the title sponsor of the golf with Jay Delson show. You already know that they're the number one largest it consulting firm and the largest software developer in the St. Louis region. You also know that there are over 2500 Darty teammates in 30 states and three countries around the world. But what you may not be aware of is what Darty business solutions does right here in our own community. They were the sponsor for the first advocate PGA event at Glen echo this past September Darty business solutions was also a presenting sponsor of the Ascension charity class. They have created access point which builds diversity in the IT workforce. This is a game changer in our community. Literally hundreds of mostly young African American women are getting 50 to $60,000 per year jobs right out of high school.

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Find out more at ascensioncharityclassic.com. This is Jay and I'm sitting down this morning with Blake Charamatero. He is a teacher down at Family Golf and Learning Center. Blake, good morning. Good morning, Jay. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being here. Blake, I know the great work that you've done with the junior league. I know some of these other things that we're going to talk about later, but I want the folks to get some background. Talk to us a little bit about how you started in the game, why you love it, and what got you.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I grew up in St. Louis area. I grew up in Baldwin. I think I was probably a little bit of the Tiger effect.

You know, I was born in 85. So, you know, I started playing when I was in, you know, 1997, 1998, which is right when he's winning that first masters and kind of changing the game. So, you know, I didn't start real young like some kids do, but I picked it up pretty quickly and really got into the competitive sort of sense of the game, you know, within a year or two of starting. So, you know, I think that a competitive nature of me growing up playing tons of sports, baseball, hockey, soccer, you know, really helped me in the game of golf early on. But, you know, I practiced a ton. I loved grinding it, digging it out of the dirt, and then just kind of fell in love with the game. You know, I went to school in Denver at Regis University, played Division II there. And then, you know, I graduated in 2008, and the economy wasn't doing very good at the time.

So, my economics degree wasn't doing me a whole lot. And so, had an opportunity to get in the golf business. And here we are, you know, many years later, still loving it and growing the game as much as I possibly can.

Blake, it's really interesting. Danny Mac and I were interviewing Tom Watson probably about a month ago or so. And you hit on something that the great Tom Watson and Jack Nicklaus mentioned that's not happening enough for kids these days. And you said you played other sports and it helped you play golf and play golf better.

Talk to us a little bit about that. Yeah, you know, I think I, you know, I played a lot of sports early on and kind of found out what I liked and what I didn't like. And then, so by the time I got to high school and realized I really loved golf and some of the other sports were taking up more time than I probably wanted to focus on my game, you know, I was kind of able to make that decision to, you know, not as for my parents or anybody, but for me to say, hey, you know, golf's what I want to do and everyone supporting me with that. You know, we coach a lot of, you know, two, three sport athletes down at Family Golf.

And I'm sure a lot of other instructors do too. I'll tell you right now, hockey players are great golfers. You know, baseball players can hit the ball a long way. So, you know, other sports, they can develop the physical skills to hit a golf ball really, really well.

And obviously we see that in professional sports. There's a lot of good golfers out there, you know, so we do think it's important. You don't have to just play golf. Obviously some kids just love golf and play other sports for fun, but it is cool to see, you know, some, some kids out there playing some, some different things. You mentioned the Tiger Woods effect and we're, we're watching it every single moment of every single swing we see on television. Did you ever imagine the distances that some of these young men and even women now are, are, are hitting the golf ball? Yeah, it's incredible. The, the 300 yard drive isn't really a big deal anymore. It's like the 300 yard three wood at times.

It's incredible. The ball speeds you see on TV, you know, assuming those are track man numbers and they're extremely accurate. I mean, nobody has a one 60, 65 ball speed anymore on the big tour, you know?

So it's a, it's wild. I mean, there's certainly some equipment involved, but I was having a conversation with somebody yesterday about this. Look, athletes are bigger, faster, stronger in every sport.

It seems, my gosh, you watch that Superbowl. That's the fastest group of athletes, you know, I think I've ever seen on a field. So it's not just golf, but obviously golf is reaping some benefits with some equipment changes.

But you know, these college programs, these junior programs, you know, getting kids in the gym early. I mean, we do it at family golf. And so, you know, it's the, the game has changed. There's no doubt about it. And I want to get to family golf in a minute, but I was watching and we had Taylor Twelman, um, in the studio not too long ago. And he was talking about how much he thought the average golfer would benefit from watching the LPGA player more so than the PGA tour player. I've been saying that for years.

If you got an opinion to weigh in on that, I 100% agree. Um, you know, where I teach every day, I have PGA tour averages and LPGA tour averages of track man numbers on a graph right next to where I teach and just simply based off of speed, right? Um, you know, the average LPGA number, even the average males probably even a little bit lower than theirs, but it's kind of hard to look at these PGA tour numbers and think that you should have that launch that spin, that speed when it's not really attainable. You know, I like watching LPGA.

Don't get me wrong. There's some big hitters out there too, but you know, those girls, they, they play the course like it's built to play, you know, out to the dog leg around the dog, whatever it is. So, um, there is a little bit of overpowering golf courses, but no doubt about it.

You could watch some course management one Oh one all day long at LPGA tour and they're putting wedge game. I mean their hybrid game, my gosh, they're, they're, they're so accurate. It's, it's unbelievable. Yeah. Those girls can really play and they're getting better all the time. When I watch Nelly Korda play, it reminds me of a young tiger woods playing out there with her constituents. You know, she plays a strong, powerful yet elegant sort of game.

Yeah. That's a, uh, that's a pretty smooth golf swing. I know some of the, some of the instructors and different people are saying that might be the best swing in the world, but, um, yeah, they make it look effortless. It really probably is for them for the most part. Um, you know, but, uh, you know, see some girls like Lexi Thompson putting a little more into it, you know, just far as like the way it looks, but you know, they all hit it.

They all hit it pretty darn pure. Okay. So let's transition a little bit to family golf and learning center. Adam bets his crew and in, in your team, his team, they've, you've created something super special. And I want people to hear this for all levels. We're not just talking about the elite golfer, anybody that loves the game. There's something for them at family golf and learning center.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think our overall goal with family golf was to change the way that golf was viewed and the way people practice around St. Louis and to provide that facility for them. And from, you know, beginner juniors, beginner adult, all the way to advanced players, college players, you know, one of my students just signed with a new school two days ago. Um, so, you know, it just, we have, we have program, not only group programs for basically any ability level, but certainly a wide range of instructors that can help with, um, you know, regardless of what you want. You know, we do all kinds of little group programs for certain families or companies or groups of people.

We can kind of cater, uh, you know, to whatever anybody really wants us to do. I'm visiting with Blake Sharon Matera down from family golf and learning center and Blake, let's say that someone is, has really wanted to play the game, but they've been a little bit too nervous, too intimidated, so to speak. Maybe it's a woman, maybe it's a young man, whomever give us, let's walk them through this because one of the things I love when I go to family golf and learning centers, there's a wide variety of action going on in all sorts of different places, whether the double decker tee, the inside short game facility.

I love the short game lab. There's a lot there for anybody. Yeah, absolutely.

So let's just say you're a beginner. You're nervous to go to a facility. You know, what do we do?

Right? So we made it real easy. You can walk up and put a credit card in the machine, not even come inside, talk to anybody. Um, we'd love you to come in and chat with us, but in general you can go grab a bucket of balls. The, the spots on the driving range, whether it's the grass teas or turf teas are all first come first serve. You can get a bucket size or, you know, we have different sizes there. Pick it up, go hit balls and you're off and running. You know, we book online for our golf course, our simulators, our short game area. So you can book stuff there without even calling.

You can always call the golf shop and ask questions. We have a lesson inquiry tab on our website so you can all we, we, we see those come in all the time where people are just asking general questions and then our director of instruction will then send that form out to ever whichever instructor he thinks that would fit that students needs the best. Yeah. And so we have that customization ability where, you know, when you're getting a lesson, we're going to get into this a little bit, but when you're getting a lesson, the personality and connecting with the pupil and the student, that's a big deal.

Yeah, absolutely. Communication is a big part of golf instruction. You know, you have to be able to communicate sometimes the same thing and three, four or five ways, depending on how that student learns, you know, whether they're visual, auditory, you know, feel, whatever it might be, usually a combination of the few. But, um, yeah, there's a lot of different ways you can talk to people and create that experience. I mean, that's part of a golf lesson is that experience. You know, we have a lot of people that they come in and say, you know, I, well, I'm watching these YouTube videos and I'm trying to figure this out. It's like, well, why don't you come over here and let's just figure out what you need to work on. Right.

Let's, let's, let's break that down even further. Blake, if, if someone's coming in for their first lesson with you, let's walk them, them through what your ideal would be. Yeah. So a first lesson, obviously get there a few minutes early to get warmed up.

You don't need to hit a big full bucket by any means, but warm up for a few minutes. Um, I'm going to chat with you for a little bit just to get some background about your game, your history, physical limitations, things like that. And then what I do is I basically explained to somebody, look today, we're both going to learn a lot, right? I'm going to figure out what's going on with your golf game.

We're going to figure out what issues you have with your ball flight. And then I'm going to give you some things to be working on. Right. So, um, well either it's a 30 minute or a 60 minute lesson, you know, we're going to get some things figured out and you're going to leave here with, you know, very specific, uh, plan of action and then come back down the road and we'll check in on it. Yeah.

And it's, and it's a, it's a multi-step process. I mean, first of all, having that connection with your teacher is a big deal, especially for someone like me. I want to feel that connection. It's going to help me learn and appreciate what you're saying to just a better level. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's fun to see whether it's kids, adults, whoever it is, you know, engaging in a great shot, right? They hit this big high draw and they're used to hitting this big high fade and, or whatever it is. And so it's, it's fun to see people who want to get better. It's, um, you know, you, you asked about ideal earlier. We love when a student comes back and goes, Hey, I've worked on this 10 times and look at this thing, you know, this thing's drawing now and now it's not low, it's up in the air and wow, I have a great problem.

I've gained 30 yards of my seven iron, you know, whatever it is. And so that's what we love to see. You know, at times that, you know, people are busy and the practice doesn't always happen. Um, so I find that out for my students and I'll give them things they can do in their basement or in their backyard or the garage. And you know, there's, there's things you could do where if you don't have the time to come hit balls, um, you can still work on whatever, maybe swing change we're trying to do. Yeah. It's interesting too, like, because the information's in the golf ball in that the golf ball doesn't lie when it gets hit a certain way and it reacts a certain way. There's reasons for it. Yeah. Ball flight doesn't lie. Right. I, uh, I completely agree. And you know, we, I think for me as a, as a young player, I used to hit a, a fairly pronounced draw, we'll call it sometimes a hook.

And so, you know, we didn't have launch monitors and things back then to talk a lot about club path and club face. And so, you know, I'm big on that. I want my students to understand why the ball's going where it goes.

Um, you know, and most people, once they understand that and maybe see some numbers, they can, uh, they can really kind of focus in on what they're trying to change. Okay. So we know that you've done great work with the junior league and we're going to talk about that a little bit in our second segment, but when giving a lesson to an adult versus a, uh, a child or a youngster, give us a little bit of, of the difference in some of the things that you do, whether it's a little boy or a little girl.

Yeah. I think, um, you know, I would say with a junior golfer probably going to focus, I mean, if it's, let's say it's a younger beginner junior golfer, right. We're not going to talk a lot about, um, any sort of track man numbers or ball, you know, a lot of ball flight stuff. We're talking fundamentals, right?

Grip stance, alignment, posture, things like that. Um, which isn't all that much different if I was doing the teach a beginner adult, you know, I think it would be more tailored on the level of junior or the level of the adult. Right. And, um, you know, you can, you know, make it a little bit more fun for the kids versus a little bit more serious for the adults. But I think maybe a good mix is good for both. Really.

There may be a message in there. I don't know about those adults. We've all want to have some fun, but one of the things Blake that I think, and we're going to wrap it up with this. Um, one of the things I think that is essential, um, uh, to the success at family golf and learning center is the par three is the fact that you can go from the lesson T straight out and go, go, go almost give it a test run, so to speak. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's a, it's an ideal course for us to be able to introduce the game to a lot of people and where's the first place you should go when you get introduced to the game is a par three. Right. And so not all the holes are short. We can get up to about 150, 60 yards. And so we love having that sort of intermediary between, um, the driving range, the golf lesson, the practice area, and then I'm not ready for 18 holes or nine holes on a Saturday morning yet, but, um, we, we love having that option.

That's fantastic. And that's going to wrap up the front nine, but don't go anywhere. I'll be back with Blake on the back nine. This is golf with Jay Delta. That was the front nine presented by the Ascension charity classic coming up. It's the back nine and more of golf with Jay Delsing. This is Jay Delsing. Did you know that Marcon is the largest authorized appliance parts distributor in the world? That's right.

The largest in the world. Did you know that Marcon is based right here in our backyard of St. Louis, Missouri? Well, that's pretty impressive. What's more impressive is the way that they get back to the St. Louis community and our region. CEO Jim Sowers has donated service dogs to the wounded service men and women of our armed forces.

Sweets at St. Louis blues games have been donated and auctioned off in which all proceeds were given to the backstoppers. Then there was the Marcon police and firefighters viewing deck at the Ascension charity classic this past year. It was a huge success, so much so that it's being implemented on other tour stops around on the PGA Tour. To Jim Sowers and his incredible team at Marcon, we want to say thank you. Thank you, Marcon, a proud sponsor of the Golf with Jay Delsing show. You are listening to Golf with Jay Delsing. To connect with Jay, log on to jdelsinggolf.com. You'll see the latest in equipment, find the latest innovations in golf, and get tips from a PGA professional.

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That's powersinsurance.com. This is the Back 9 on Golf with Jay Delsing. The Back 9 is presented by Pro-Am Golf, located in Brentwood.

See what Pro-Am Golf can do for you. Hey, welcome back. Jay's here, and I've got Blake Charamatera with me, and we're headed to the Back 9. Blake, let's just talk about the junior league. It's what we talked about off air. You've just made some great strides at Family Golf and Learning Center.

Talk us through this. Yeah, absolutely. I think the PGA Junior League is probably, in my mind, the best initiative the PGA of America has ever put forth in my time as a golf professional. It started several years ago, and it's grown immensely from there. I started junior league in Denver, Colorado, and so I wasn't sure what to expect with it when I came to St. Louis.

It's bigger and better than ever here in St. Louis. It's cool to see a lot of courses, private or public, making part of this program and creating this really cool team atmosphere for kids. We have a 13U and a 17U at Family Golf, and we have weekly practices, matches. The 13U is all in-house, so we play all of those matches on our par 3 course. And then the 17U, we play matches and scrimmages and different things on the par 3, as well as play some other clubs around town. And then there's an all-star team.

There are playoffs for it. Our 17U team has qualified for the regionals, which is the end of the road for 17U the last couple years, which is just a really, really fun sort of highlight for me every year is getting to coach those teams. So it's interesting, because when you break down this PGA Junior League, they've incorporated this team concept that makes this so much more inclusive for everybody, doesn't it? Yeah, you know, when I was growing up, and I'm sure you're the same, you know, team golf started at high school, there was nothing really as a kid.

And so it's an awesome program. They play scramble, whether it's two or three person scramble, you don't have to be a well-advanced player to play in it. You know, my advice for parents is, whether your child is beginner or intermediate or advanced, as long as they can play nine holes on their own without a parent kind of assisting them, they're fine for the Junior League. You know, especially in the 13U where we play on our par 3 course, if they hit a bad shot and their partner hits a good one, they pick their ball up and go play.

So it's very inclusive. It's a really good mix of boys and girls, the age ranges are awesome, whether it's young, you know, middle or older, and they all kind of help each other out and just have a good time. And Blake, they've gotten as far as doing uniforms and t-shirts and numbers and things like that. And it's just, I see these kids and the joy that they're experiencing, it's almost like a bonafide, you know, Little League or a Pop Warner, you know, they've incorporated some of the fun team elements into the golf and it's really working.

Yeah, absolutely. Jersey Handout Day is always fun at practice. You know, they get hats and little team bags and, you know, the kids love them.

There's a really cool app the PGA provides for us and you can track everyone's stats and the team stats and RSVP for matches and it's really cool. I wish it was around when I was a kid, it wasn't, but it's awesome to be a part of it now and let these kids, you know, have fun with it. And you guys have obtained a super high level here at Family Golf. Yeah, the program's grown a lot. You know, a couple years ago, we cut it off a little bit with COVID and all the kind of restrictions as far as how many people you can sort of have in a gathering.

But ever since then, it's taken off quite a bit. And the 17U program, I know that they don't really have any sort of ranking system for that. But I know we we for sure have the biggest 17U program anywhere around here. And I would guess probably one of the biggest in the country. And I think the thing that I read is 11th largest in the in the nation. And when you talk about that, it needs to be understood that there's a massive differentiator between a seasonal place like St. Louis and a place where you're going to be in Arizona or Southern Cal or South Florida, where you're going to get to play all year round.

Those are big numbers. Yeah, absolutely. You know, you know, if you if you live in Florida or somewhere where you have, you know, warm weather all year, you can do spring, winter, fall, you know, you know, winter, whatever leagues you want. Basically, for us, we just do a summer which starts in May and then we do a fall league which starts right after school gets going. So yeah, it's cool to be a part of we have several instructors that, you know, coach our program alongside me and we we have a blast with it.

There's no doubt about it. This is Jay delsing and I'm visiting with Blake Sherman Tara from Family Golf and Learning Center Blake. This is a great kind of segue we we've talked about the the juniors we've also talked about anyone getting a lesson.

Let's kind of blend these two in. You just mentioned one of your better junior players, I think, got a scholarship or signing to play at the next level. Let's kind of walk the parents through that process. So they started, you know, and I'm sure there's a lot of parents out there that would love to get connected with you, but they're not sure how. Yeah, so you know, as far as the the whole college scholarship thing golf's different, right? You know, you don't have there's the recruiting is up to the parents and the individual a lot of times, right?

I mean, the coaches obviously do. But if you're trying to get your name out there, and we do help with that, you know, Rob Sdorsick and I both run competitive junior programs where part of the program is helping with resumes and stat tracking and building things up to and videos and to send us some coaches so they can always get a hold of me Blake at familygolfonline.com. Our website www.familygolfonline.com.

We have all of our instructor tabs information online booking. So there's a lot of different ways to get a hold of us. And I just want to reiterate to the folks out there that that this were the family golf is a one stop shop. They can they can hang out with you, they can get better at their game, they can play the part three, they can work on the short game. We've got a, you know, a grill, you can get a sandwich, you know, these kids can spend, I was one of these kids that spent all day long at the golf course. You know, you can this can happen down there.

Absolutely. We have I always call it kind of the babysitter, but we have we have a lot of kids that will get will get dropped off in the summertime when schools out and they all kind of have their memberships and they'll hit balls and have lunch and go play golf with all their buddies and they'll be out there for several hours. It's a great place to be.

You know, adults kind of do the same thing. You know, we have we have an on staff chiropractor, Dr. Zach Cutler, we have a gym upstairs, we have a lot of our, you know, our members for the driving range in the golf course who have now kind of joined our gym. And so now they're, they're working out the facility. And so that's like you said, you hit the nail on the head one stop shop, we have, you know, everything but an 18 hole championship golf course, we've got it and, and you know, that's what we're trying to do. And Zach is a disciple of our buddy Mike Murphy, who's a avid golfer and a great guy, and he's been helping keep our bodies loosen or looser and get us back on the golf course.

We appreciate appreciate Murphy and his kind of his tree of folks that he sent out into the game. So how so Blake, the registration is open for the Junior League. It's already opened. It actually starts in May, right? So the first practices start in May, we kind of wait till school is about out because everyone's kind of busy with all their other stuff.

If you go to our website, we actually have a pop up just on the front screen. So as soon as you go to our website, it's right there right in front of your face, click on that it'll take you to the Junior League page. It has all the information for the 13 you it has all the information for the 17 you you click on either of those register tabs that takes you to the PGA Junior League website, which is where you have to register, parents get them all set up, and they're good to go. So we start making the schedules and forming all of it exactly once we have a better idea of how many players will have usually do a full round robin in that 13 use, we get about six or seven teams for our program. And then the 17 you we wait and we know I already have matches set up with different clubs and different courses all over the place.

That's that goes all summer long. Well, it's terrific too, because we need to St. Louis needs to turn out better junior golfers. And, and, and, you know, with having such a great professional golf, kind of footprint here with the PGA Championship in 2018, which is a smashing success at Bell Reef, and now the Ascension charity classic up in new up at Norwood Hills, we are getting to see the best players in the world at various levels come in and it's this along with what you guys are doing is can kind of round this thing out. Guys can go see it played at a really high level and kind of get turned on by that.

Yeah, I think it's probably a combination of everything you just mentioned. There's no doubt about it. I have seen the last month, way more high school boys out there gearing up for their game for their tryout season coming up in a couple weeks. Then in years past at Family Golf, it's grown a ton. You know, some of the students that we all teach, we're hearing some incredible numbers for the amount of players that are coming out for these teams. So I'm sure those coaches are dealing with how are we going to have 60 kids trying out or whatever it might be. But we're hearing some astounding numbers as far as just how many kids are trying out for high school golf, whether it's freshmen through senior, and we see them all day every day at Family Golf.

It's pretty cool. And they're out there grinding on their games till we close. That is really fun because this has been such a strange last three years or so Blake because of the pandemic.

Our game has just experienced this. We could have never for me personally, never foreseen the boom that we've experienced with with golf and it had to trickle down to the kids as well. Yeah, I think COVID gave everyone more time, right? Whether they were staying at home or they weren't working or they were out of school or their college was closed down, you know, everyone had a lot more time for stuff like that. And so, yeah, we we definitely saw a big surge in our kind of midday, just all day long sort of crowd. But there's no doubt about it. I mean, if I'm learning I have a high school kid and I take up the game during COVID, I'm going to try to get him or her involved, too, you know. So I think you're absolutely right.

The trickle down is has definitely happened. Blake, thank you so much for visiting with me. Tell the folks again how they can reach out to you, how they can get a lesson, how they can hang out and get better at their game.

Yeah, absolutely. My email is Blake, B-L-A-K-E at familygolfonline.com. You can also visit our website, www.familygolfonline.com. We have a learn tab. You can click on that and it says meet the pros. You have all of our instructors click on my name.

There's all my information, my email, my online booking tab. Pretty simple way to get ahold of us. Not only is Family Golf and Learning Center created an atmosphere and an environment and a facility where you can go scoop the nuts, you guys have a great variety of teachers that are going to work out for anyone. You can find someone that's going to mix with your personality and that's going to help you have fun and get better at the game.

Yeah, no doubt. You can click on that same lesson tab. There's an inquiry form.

Fill it out. Our director of instruction will match an instructor that's going to fit your needs exactly. It's a really quick questionnaire and he's going to find exactly what you're looking for. We have instructors that focus on beginners.

We have instructors that focus on advanced and we have everything in the middle. We'll find someone for you. Blake, congratulations with the junior league. Congratulations with all you're doing down at Family Golf and Learning Center. Keep rolling, my friend. Thank you, Jay.

I appreciate it very much. This has been the Back Nine presented by Pro-Am Golf. We'll make the turn into the clubhouse and head into the 19th hole. That's next on Golf with Jay Delsing. The official vehicle provider of the Golf with Jay Delsing show is the Dean Team, the Dean Team Volkswagen of Kirkwood. They provide me, Pearly and our families with all of our cars. The reason we went with the Dean Team is because we could trust them. We knew at the Dean Team they were going to take care of us and they have. They made the entire car buying experience so simple.

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And make sure you ask for CJ. That's Pro-Am Golf. Visit Pro-Am Golf USA dot com. That's Pro-Am Golf USA dot com. This is golf with Jay Delsing and let's head to the 19th hole. This is golf with Jay Delsing. John is with me. We are back and we are headed into the 19th hole. Thanks for staying with us. All right, so John, our interview with Blake, he's another one of these young guys so committed to the game and growing the game. I just love it. What an impressive place.

They've got quite a stable of teachers slash coaches down there. He sure handled himself very well with you. I can say that much. Well, yeah.

And you know, it's probably it's pretty difficult because I'm an intimidating personality. Apparently not to him, but maybe to some people. Yeah. Anyway, he was he was fantastic. And I love what he was talking about with the junior league. Their numbers are off the charts. And that is really impressive, John, for being seasonal. You know, there's no kids there from November through, for the most part, March.

Yeah, just the whole junior program across the board. That's where my passion, your passion lies anyway. And it's just great to hear how they cater to that and make that happen and make it fun in this day and age where the kids are down in their in their laptops and their iPhones and all that kind of stuff to get them interested in golf, I think is critical not only for the game, but for these kids and these families. Yeah, no doubt.

No doubt about it. So our hats off to Blake, our hats off to my buddy Adam Betts, who is the proprietor down at Family Golf and Learning Centers. Folks, stop by there. Check it out. State of the art place.

There's very few places that can touch Family Golf and Learning Centers in this Midwestern region. I know that the folks at Tower T have done a great job. Family Golf and Learning Center took it to the next level, and it's really impressive. All right, John, let's talk a little bit. I know you've got some interesting stuff. LIV that's going on. We want to talk a little bit about Brooks Koepcke, who's now considering defecting and wanting to come back to the PGA Tour.

Wow. This thing, this thing is just like the story that never ends. Well, but it's getting a little bit curiouser and curiouser, I believe, Jay. I mean, some of the highlights and the headlines I'm seeing is LIV golfers are struggling to keep sponsors. You know, you've got these relationships that the players have with different clothing companies, equipment companies, et cetera, that have lasted 5, 10, 15 years, and these things are going away now. But you can just imagine a sponsor when they were on prime time TV for hours at a time in the past, and now they're on LIV somewhere TV or nowhere TV and, you know, embroiled in controversy versus kind of the squeaky clean image of the PGA Tour. You just kind of wonder where this thing's headed.

It does not seem to have momentum in the right direction. I don't know what else you've heard, but that's the way I'm feeling about it. I don't know, John, if you got to see the Netflix series Full Swing, but I've watched the first three or four segments of it. And Ian Poulters was extremely interesting. And the fact that he jumped, I mean, John, some of these guys are playing such lousy golf. Brooks Kefko couldn't make an eight footer with five or six or seven attempts at the same putt while he was putting his confidence while they shot this full swing thing, in my opinion, all time low. And he just made himself, he did no favors in my opinion on his image and what that looked like. The whole thing seems to me to be unraveling.

The image part is weird. They based why they've gone for a reason that none of them wanted to state it's for the money. And it's okay if it's for the money, just say it's for the money. Their goals in front of them, they're all multimillionaires many times over. What are they playing for? They're just, it's exhibition golf is I think that's what Tom Watson called it in one of your interviews. I don't know what to think about it.

I want to say unfortunate, but you know what? They made a decision. They made millions of dollars move on the PGA show as it, as it stands now, it still has plenty of talent, plenty of interest. I think it's been fascinating watching this early year golf on the PGA tour and, and bluntly, I liked several of the guys that went to live, but I really don't miss any of those guys from, from a spectator standpoint. And you know, I watched too much golf.

I just, I truly don't miss them. No, it's interesting, John. And then this is a perfect segue into John Ram and, and Max Homer. I mean the two best players on the PGA tour right now, battled it out at Riviera and I loved what Max Homer said. I mean, Max Homer left it all out at RIV and he really, really struggled with his driver, especially on Sunday, John.

But John Ram is, he is in terms of, of kind of a rocket ship that is headed in the right direction. I am so impressed with his ability to manage himself pearly because as a young man, we saw him blow up and unravel in the first couple holes of an event. And then that event was history for him.

What was it about a year and a half ago? We started getting control of that. It's still a huge challenge for him as he admits. And as we can see watching him, but yeah, the guy's taking huge steps. Jay, other than tiger, have you ever seen anybody play with more confidence than John Ram from a consistent week in, week out basis?

No, I think right now I would absolutely say that. I mean, I, I would say I'd have to throw Phil in that mix. I mean, Phil won 45 times in six major championships. And so he was, you know, he exudes, he, he has actually actually more confidence than he probably probably should. But I mean, you know, yeah, but, but, but, um, in terms of that golf, because Jen, John Ram has got a very homemade ish putting stroke.

It is not what I would call more classic modern day. You know, he's got a little pop in there. He's got a little wrist action in there. And, and he is absolutely standing up on every tee, trying to eliminate the left side of the golf course, you know, with these hard, hard fate hits probably two double crosses a day, John.

And, and it's appears unfazed by it. I was a guy that lived in that double cross world. Those things unravel you, man. Yeah. They don't seem to unravel him and get back to the confidence, I guess, confidence that a person has earned and should have. I don't, I don't necessarily see him overconfident.

I love the fact that he's got more control of his emotions, but I'm kind of with you too. It's that whole age of, you know, you can't survive the big mess. Scotty Shepler has the big mess. John Ram has big mess.

Jordan Spieth has the big mess and they're all winners. It's, it's, uh, it's amazing how, how things have changed out there. You and I've talked about that forever.

Everybody's train falls off the rails. It's who can pop it back on quickest and, and, and, you know, kind of do damage control while it's off. Well, that's everything. That's everything that's a great star. And you know, some of the greatest of all time would go out there knowing they didn't have their game, but they still found a way.

Lee Trevino did that for sure. Greg Norman talks about that a lot and said, listen, and when I don't have a game, then it's interesting to me, can I still shoot 68 when I can't hit the ball where I want to hit it? That's just a whole different attitude that most of us have never even understood. You had to understand that to be able to play the tour all those years, there's just going to be days and weeks where it just doesn't feel right and he can't afford to just go home or just miss cuts. Somehow you have to get it done and he's the type that gets it done. Yeah, he's doing it at such a high level that it's great to see. And John, you know what else is great to see?

We're finished with another show. Thanks so much for joining me, Pearl. Enjoyed it very much, Jay. Folks, we will be back at you next week with more golf with Jay Delson.

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