Re-Created - Part 1

Welcome to God First, a program committed to encouraging you to put God first, while viewing life through the window of the Bible. Now, in honor of the one and only true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, please join us for today's episode. And it is always a joy and honor and a privilege to join you each week. I want to thank you for tuning in. I am very excited today. I'm honored to be joined by phone.

I have a guest. He is Dr. Shaw. And he is coming on to speak with us about a very, very important topic. I have been following his ministry for a number of months, and a recent series that he gave really resonated with me. So I reached out to him and asked if he would come on to our program to talk about this very, very important topic. So Dr. Shaw, I want to thank you for taking time out of your schedule to come on and speak with us today. Brian, thank you so much for having me on your program. I'm really excited about being here today. Thank you for all you're doing and the ministry through the radio waves. I'm really excited to be here.

Thank you, sir. So you are the pastor of Clearview church in Henderson, North Carolina. You've been there for 22 years. You hold a PhD in new Testament, textual criticism. You are the chaplain for the local hospital police department and fire department married to Nicole and have four kids, Rebecca, Abigail, Nicholas, and Thomas. So as we were speaking off air, you were talking about the fact that you were born and raised in India and you moved to the United States of America. So before we really get into talking about the series, can you give us a little bit more about your background and the things that have influenced you and how you are to today come to be a pastor for our great Lord Jesus Christ?

Oh, thank you. Well, I grew up in a Christian home. And in fact, more specifically, I grew up in a pastor's home. My dad was pastoring and passed away this year after pastoring his first and only church for almost 55 plus years. But the interesting part of that story is that my dad was a Muslim before he came to know Christ as his savior.

So he had an amazing testimony that we're trying to put into a book form where his family kicked him out, he was on the streets, and then through the help of some missionaries, he was able to go to seminary and all that. So that's the whole another story. But I have quite a heritage there through my dad. Amen. Amen.

Well, condolences to your family on the passing of your dad. I know that is a sad thing. But as I always say to people, believers, when we pass on, the hope that we have is that that loved one is now rejoicing with Jesus Christ and we're going to see them again. And so that is that hope that we have that we look forward to.

And that is why it's just so awesome to be a part of the body of Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen. We don't hope we don't grieve as those without hope. Amen.

I know. I know my father is in the presence of the savior whom he has followed all his life and given up so much. But, you know, I think back and I look back to the times when he would talk about what he gave up and and he would often say, that's nothing, nothing compared to what God gave up for me.

The sacrifice Christ made on the cross. That's nothing. Right. Right. But a perspective. Yeah, it is. That is that is an awesome perspective.

All right. So, Dr. Shaw, so I've been following your ministry for a number of months and immediately when I heard your messages, I thought I need to reach out to you to invite you on the program to see if you were willing to come on and talk. And you gave a recent series that just really grabbed my attention. And I was listening because you were speaking on homosexuality. And as you were talking, you began to talk about the Andy Griffith Show.

And when I heard that, that really sealed the deal for me because I said, this is my guy. He's a fan of Andy Griffith. I think you said you watched every episode 20 to 30 times. And I'm a big fan myself. I watch Andy Griffith, probably three to four episodes per day.

Money through Friday. So I'm a big fan as well of Andy Griffith. But in all seriousness, you know, really what it was was that you're you're standing for the truth of God's word, because we're in a time now in which sadly, a lot of Christians and sadly, a lot of pastors, you just don't hear a lot of talk about seeing.

You don't hear calling, seeing what it really is, which is seeing. And so you did a series called Recreated and you were speaking on homosexuality. And so I wanted to bring you on to talk about it. And you began the message by speaking about again with Andy Griffith.

You were talking about Mayberry. And, you know, when we look at our nation, things have changed a lot since the days of Mayberry. So so can you start us off by talking about how we've seen the change from that time period to where we are today? Well, you know, the homosexuality has been around since since time began. I mean, we know that Sodom and Gomorrah people have tried to explain it away as the sin of inhospitality and all of that. But now they're scholars.

OK. And they don't have to be conservative scholars, even scholars on the other side of the fence. They even they admit, yeah, that's not that has nothing to do with hospitality. It was same sex relationships. And that's what was happening in Sodom and Gomorrah. So homosexuality has been around for a while. There have been periods throughout history where certain cultures, you know, homosexuality was winked at or treated as sort of abnormal. But it's OK. Let's go along with it.

Among the Greeks, you know, they had homosexuality as the form of manliness or whatever. But in our culture, especially in the Western culture, I would say in the past 100 years, it's been coming. It's been coming since the late 1800s.

The effort has been there to to make this normal and to make it acceptable, especially among believers, among the church or the Christian realm. And each time it was kind of like, you know, push back. It's like the pendulum was kind of swing the other way.

And it felt like, OK, I think people understand the danger of going in this direction. And then it came back again in the 30s and came back again in the 60s. But now it's come back. I would say in the past 20 some years.

But but the pushback is not there like it used to. Even among people who you would typically call evangelicals, they are either hesitant to speak out or they're conflicted because maybe there's someone in their life, family, friend, church, whatever, or somebody they admire who is just a wonderful person other than the fact that they're gay. And it's like they're hesitant to speak on it, to stand up. And it's really shocking because sometimes these are people I look up to. Yeah. And it makes you wonder why. Why are we not saying something?

And we can be loving and kind and gracious. But at least call this sin. And there's a hesitancy there. Yeah. Yeah. You're so right.

I've observed and experienced the same things. And and as you said, it is sin. We're being very clear in the Bible is very clear about that, that it is sin. But as you said, it seems as though there are some that just refuse to touch the subject or if they do talk about it, they will not call it sin. But you stated in your series, you said that it is unnatural and what is important for us. And I love the way you stated that we are to be firm in calling it sin, but at the same time be compassionate.

So can you speak to that as well? Oh, absolutely. I mean, we know Christ was compassionate. He was with the tax collectors and sinners. These were the rough people in society that came to him and felt at ease around him. But at the same time, he never condones sin. So now what we hear is when I in fact, I heard this sometime back.

I preached on the same subject of homosexuality and I and I had a lady tell me, you know, Jesus hung around tax collectors and sinners. Don't you think so? And I said, yes. What's your point? Because that doesn't mean anything. That means he was out there soul winning. But that does not mean that he was condoning them. Right. He was calling them from darkness into light. I mean, he told the woman called him adultery and goes to no more.

So I really think that the whole idea now is that, oh, Jesus was with them, which means he just condoned it. But that's far from that. Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

Because, you know, it's very clear. A doctor. Where does a doctor need to be around? A doctor needs to be around people who are sick. They need healing. And when he does that, he's not condoning their sickness.

He's there to heal. And so that is exactly what our Lord Jesus was doing as well. Now, you also in the series, you mentioned the questionnaire that you all sent out about the topic prior to preaching it.

And so I want to to focus on those right now. So you began with the question that I think someone submitted from the church. They asked the question, what about consensual, committed and caring gay relationships? Right. Right. But that's that's the hot topic right now. And it has been for some time.

Back in the 80s, I remember hearing about this. You know, we understand where, you know, hopping from club to club and and, you know, changing partners every week or every weekend. Oh, that's wrong. And that's evil. And that should not happen. But what if you have these two guys or these two ladies, they are in a committed, consensual, caring gay relationship. Is that a problem? And that's the question somebody asked.

And the answer is very simple. Gay relationships or homosexuality is a sin. And to to somehow mitigate that with, oh, committed caring doesn't make it right. And so the short answer is it doesn't matter if they're caring, it doesn't matter if they're committed.

That still doesn't justify the fact that God calls it a sin. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And you also mentioned that when you look around in the world, just in general, right now, we're going through this pandemic with Covid. And it just seems, Dr. Shaw, like you look around the world and they're just there's so much unrest.

There's so much trouble in so many areas. And you you would think that people would come to realize that we need to turn to God. We need to repent from our sins. But it seems as though the majority, instead of saying we need to repent and ask for his grace and mercy to deliver us from the troubles. Instead, they seem to be continuing to embrace sin and to promote it. As you said, to try to condone it, to make it OK, because it's between consensual and and committed people.

And I look around and I say, why? Why are people not calling out to God for repentance? And I guess it's just the hardness of hearts that is causing man to be in rebellion and refuses to embrace the truth of God's word in that what he calls sin. We are to turn away from it. We are to repent.

Absolutely. You know, I believe this whole pandemic, this past two years have been the great revealer because it has really exposed what's in the hearts of people in church, because we did not respond the way we should have responded. We did not respond with faith. We did not respond with calling on God and saying, God, what are you doing? We either began to judge each other or fuss at each other or completely shut down the churches and walk away. I mean, I understand we need to be careful.

We need to, you know, take precautions. But we very quickly revealed that church was not essential. Gospel was not essential. Revival was far from our minds. We did not say, God, we need to be on our knees calling on you to heal our land. And that we went into a whole different protective mode. We talk about Jesus having conquered death and life. But I don't know.

I think I don't know if I'm going off topic here, but we we are afraid of death. Yeah. And it's it's it kind of comes through in how we think about repentance and revival.

You hit. I think you hit the nail right on the head. I had that very conversation with my wife. We were talking about during Covid. And, you know, sadly, Dr. Shaw, there's still some churches that are closed now.

They have not reopened during the pandemic. And it's just mind boggling. And my wife was saying that she could imagine that God is looking down and saying, why won't my people stand up? Why won't my people be faithful? Why won't they go to church?

Why are they afraid? And I was thinking, you're so right. And like you said, I think you just revealed that people are so afraid of death, because as we were talking off air that the fact that when we are believer in Jesus Christ, when when when our physical body dies, our soul and spirit goes to be with the Lord. And that is the ultimate goal.

That is the finish line to be with Jesus Christ. And that is something that we should not be afraid of. We should not fear that.

I mean, it doesn't mean that we're where we walk out into the street and trying to get ourselves killed. You know, you're doing it in God's wisdom and timing. But when that time comes, you know, we shouldn't be afraid. But I think you're right. So many people are holding on to this life and not looking at things from an eternal standpoint. And I think Covid has really, really revealed that. And I think that is just a major, major problem that we see in the church that that not enough are eternally minded.

So I'm so glad you mentioned that. And also, you mentioned during the message that when you look at nations and when God is judging a nation, one of the last steps in the judgment is homosexuality. Can you speak to that? Yes.

Yes. You know, the also I hear this and I hear this among Christians. So it's kind of frustrating, which is all sin is sin. And I hear that and I know I don't need thousands of sins to send me to hell. I'm born in trespasses and sins. I have a sin nature and I'm under the penalty of sin. So I am I cannot escape. I come into this world.

I need Jesus. But the point is, all sin is not on the same level, especially if you read Paul's letter to the Romans. In Romans chapter 121, it lays out the slippery slope for us. Paul says, you know, because although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God, became futile, you know, on and on. They changed the glory of the God, started worshipping animals and creeping things. And then God gives them up to uncleanness and they begin to dishonor their bodies. And then comes verse 26, I believe, where it says even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise, also the men did the same thing, began to lust after other men. Now, when you read that, and I am, you know, I study Greek, I teach Greek, no other way you can take that but this is the last step on the way down. Where you're not just eating trash, but you're eating right through the trash can. And God says, you're done.

I've given them over. And when you look around our culture, I hate to use the word scary, but it's scary because that's where we are today. Homosexuality is not glorified. I mean, talking about young kids. And in the past two years, I would say in the past year, I've had parents ask me, you know, what do I tell my 12-year-old? Because she's telling me, or he is telling me that he is gay or she is gay.

And I'm thinking, 12 years old, where do you get this idea? Why are you even concerned about sexuality? But what's happening is because it is so prevalent and social media is just fueling this and stars. If your career is going downhill, just tell people you're gay.

And all of a sudden, you know, you'll have 5,000 likes or 50,000 likes and you become the star. Now, kids are using the same tactic if you feel down, if you feel left out, or just say you're coming out and all of a sudden you're the star. But the point is homosexuality is now the cool thing to say or to do. So we're living in some very, very dangerous times. Absolutely.

Absolutely. And, you know, as you were speaking, I think back to a few years ago when our president, then it was Barack Obama, he decided to light up the White House in the rainbow colors as a representation of celebration of homosexuality. And I was just thinking then, my God, look at how our nation has fallen when we have the top leader of the country celebrating what the Bible calls an abomination. And you're right, there are different levels of sin. And there are some people that don't want to to confess that or to admit to that.

And I heard someone in the ministry that was speaking on that very topic some years ago and he gave the the analogy. He said, well, imagine is as a man, you go off to work one day and you come home and you talk with your wife and you say, honey, I went out for lunch and I was a glutton. I see him over eight.

I had I had two or three burgers and I just overindulge. Will you forgive me? And he said, so now imagine the same man. The next day comes home from work and he says, well, honey, during my lunch break, I met another woman at a hotel and we had sexual relations. He said, now, now is your wife going to have the same response to both of those?

Is she going to say, OK, honey, that's fine. No, it's going to be a totally different response to to gluttony from eating, eating versus having a having a sexual affair. So, yes, there are different levels of sin and different consequences that come.

So so I totally agree with you on that. And, you know, Dr. Shaw, again, it's just when you look at what is happening and to your point, I have kids that are not yet teenagers, but I'm constantly having to monitor the things that they are seeing. You know, just used to be where you could just allow kids to watch cartoons. But now this stuff is being pushed everywhere, this indoctrination.

And I have to be very, very guarded in what they're seeing, what their eyes and their ears are letting in, because Satan is really trying to indoctrinate people with with this wickedness. Absolutely. And the whole shutdown, you know, the shutdown that happened in 2020 leading into 2021. This was a time where what did we do? What did most people do? They just sat at home and they either watched TV or they scrolled their phones nonstop.

And so these became the medium. I'm not saying you can always blame social media or entertainment for all the things you and I do, because sin is coming from our hearts. But it has really been a catalyst in pushing this evil agenda that's coming from the pit of hell, I believe, but also from some very wicked people pushing this agenda right into our homes.

Yeah. I mean, unbeknownst to us, it's come right in and we're sitting around not realizing that your child sitting across from you scrolling, they're not just liking pictures of basketball players or, you know, something sport related. They're watching some bad stuff. It is altering their way of thinking. It's creating pathways around their, you know, their mind. And it's very sad, very sad.

I talk to parents who are struggling with this with their kids. You can see the feeling of defeat, of defeatism, like we messed up, we blew it and we can't turn back. It's heartbreaking because these are good people. They are godly people.

And yet somehow in a moment of, yeah, our kids are fine. They're right here with us. They're right here. But they're right there.

But they are looking at something that you were not aware of. Right. Absolutely. And I'm going to ask you if at the end of the program, if you will pray for those people who are struggling through those times right now, because we really need that. But I want to just again commend you, Dr. Shaw, for speaking out on this topic, because again, it's not a lot that are doing it. And I just I had to have you on to speak on it because it is extremely important. If you are just now joining us, we have the privilege today of speaking with Dr. Shaw on his recent series, Recreated. We're going to pause for a brief announcement, but please don't go away.

On the other side of the break, we will be back with more. You are tuned in to the God First program. You are listening to God First. If you believe in what we stand for at God First Bible Fellowship, would you consider partnering with us? Our God First partners program is based on Matthew six thirty three. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things shall be added on to you for a recurring donation of six dollars and thirty three cents per month. You can help us share the message of placing God's commands first when viewing the issues of our culture.

Please visit our Web site, God first dot org or write to us at God First Bible Fellowship, P.O. Box 266, Knightdale, North Carolina, two seven five four five. For more information. Now, let's return to the conclusion of today's program. Welcome back to the program. My name is Brian Thomas. We are again being joined today by Dr. Shaw. He is here to discuss his awesome series recreated that he recently gave at Clearview Baptist Church, where he is pastor in Henderson, North Carolina.

So it is such an honor to speak with you on today on again, this very, very important subject. And before the break, we were talking about the fact that this is one of the last steps in God's judgment upon a nation and for anyone out there that is skeptical. We can just look at history. You just go into your history books and look at nations, because as you said earlier, Dr. Shaw, that homosexuality has been around. We see it in the Bible with with Sodom and Gomorrah. You saw it in the Roman Empire. It's been through many, many superpowers. And when you look at the rise and fall of those empires, as you said, you can see through history that the acceptance of homosexuality, the glorification of it is one of the last phases.

So we're continuing, though, with your series, the questionnaire that you gave out. Another question that came in is, is there a gay gene? That is a thing a lot of people talk about now. People were born that way. And you gave a lot of statistics concerning that. So can you speak to that question? Is there a gay gene? Yeah. So, you know, that I remember back in the 90s, we had to do a paper for ethics class.

And this was the same question even back then. Is there a gay gene? They have done research and they found that, you know, this and this.

And the short answer is no, there isn't. And a great scholar who has done a great work in this direction is J. Allen Branch. He wrote a book called Born This Way, Homosexuality, Science, and the Scriptures. And he explains how, you know, people talk about the XQ28 or 8Q12 regions in the genome, that, you know, there could be something there. The operative word in all of this, even those who are not on our side and believe that there is no gay gene, it is inconclusive. Science tells us all of this research about a gay gene is inconclusive.

And so why do we keep repeating this? Yesterday I was talking to a lady and she's a hairdresser. She said somebody came by to get a haircut and they kept telling her, yeah, they found the gay gene. They found this gene. And so people are born this way. And we are repeating false information all under the guise of, oh, this is science.

While scientists themselves are saying, even those who are gay, they're saying, yeah, we think there's something there, but we are still not sure. Yeah. And this is one of those things that you, when you hear people say that, I mean, me personally, I don't know about you, but I have to really sort of counsel myself in not allowing my anger or blood pressure to rise when I hear it because you hear it so much now. But I have to remember, as you said, we are firm, but yet compassionate. Well, we have to press the pause button for this week as we are all out of time. But I want you to come back next week as we will play part two in the conclusion of our discussion with Dr. Shah on his series, Recreated.

I want to thank you for tuning in. Please come back next week again as we will have Dr. Shah with us as we continue to encourage you to put God first while viewing life through the window of the Bible. Until then, remember to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Bless God's great nation of Israel until the only wise God be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen. Thank you for tuning in to the God first program. Please come back and join us next week as we continue to encourage you to put God first while viewing life through the window of the Bible. Until next time, remember to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Bless God's great nation of Israel and seek first the kingdom of God.