I think for much of my life, I thought that pain and joy were mutually exclusive, that you couldn't hold both in your heart at the same time.
But as I've gotten older, I've noticed that there's something beautiful about the highs and the lows intertwining. And Cubby and I sought God and each other and found comfort right there in the messy middle. That's Rebecca St. James describing how she's learned to trust God with her dreams, her future, her present. Welcome to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Rebecca and her husband Cubby have joined us in the studio, and they're going to share their journey with God and as a couple with us.
Your host is Focus President and author Jim Daly, and I'm John Fuller. John, I think trusting God in the messy middle is life, right? If we attach our emotional wellness to highs and lows, we're in trouble. I mean, God's present with us always in the highs and in the lows. And I think the irony is we learn more about ourselves in the lows, like what we're deficient at, where we need help. Have you had that experience?
Just recently, like today. So that's why this is such a great story with Rebecca and her husband Cubby. And we're going to cover their love story, which is always good. So this is nice to kick back, get a cup of tea, cup of coffee, sit and listen together, because it I think will rekindle even your own journey in marriage. Yeah, there's something here for all of us, no matter where you are with regard to marriage.
Maybe you haven't even gotten married yet, or maybe it's been decades. You're going to learn from Rebecca and Cubby. Rebecca is an award-winning singer-songwriter and actress, author of more than a dozen books. We're pleased to have her here, Jim, because she's here to do some work on Practice Makes Parent, a focus on the family podcast with Dr. Danny Verita. I think it's a great podcast. I hope our listeners really dial in and enjoy it as well. Cubby Fink is a successful film director and producer.
He was in a Grammy-nominated pop music band. And together, Cubby and Rebecca have written a terrific book capturing their story and offering some really good life lessons. It's called Lasting Ever, Faith, Music, Family and Being Found by True Love. And of course, we have details about our guests and their book.
We've got the details in the show notes. Rebecca, it's so good to have you back at Focus. Jim, such a joy.
I don't know how many times, but it's been a number of times going back to the early 2000s. This building has so much nostalgia for me and this room too. Yeah, we're going to have to get you a parking place out there.
Yeah, I think I deserve my own security badge. And Cubby, welcome into the big family. It's his first time. Yeah, first time here. I call it Cubby the Hubby.
I like that. How many years did you and I talk about your future husband? I mean, a long time. Yeah, which was awesome. You had such a heart to be married. I mean, that's when, whenever we met, it wasn't about your career, it wasn't about singing.
That was not what you really talked about. You talked about, is there a man out there for me? Does the Lord have somebody? And I just remember, man, there's got to be some good guy out there because who wouldn't want to marry Rebecca?
I mean, she's beautiful inside, beautiful outside. And it sounds like God's answered your prayer. He sure did.
Well, let's unravel this a little bit. Go back, you know, the movie, obviously, about your family. Unsung Hero.
Unsung Hero. And just recap that journey coming out of Australia, which of course, everybody loves your accent, by the way. Good. I hope it's still there. I've tried to keep it.
Yeah, that's so good. And, but you moved to the States as a family, a lot of turmoil, but describe what was taking place and how old you were. Yeah, so it was 91. I was 14, six kids in our family. My mom, very pregnant with my sister. And we moved to the other side of the world from Australia because my dad got offered a job in Nashville. And then a couple of months after that big move, that job was no longer. And so we were now plunged into a lot of uncertainty and no car, no furniture.
And I mean, they show it in the movie, but there literally was sheets that were wrapped around winter clothes as our beds for a little while. And, you know, very, very close to the poverty line and overdue in our rent, you know, months, just the grace of God that we weren't kicked out of that rental place. But we prayed for money and food and a car and all the things and just saw it happen. And so miracles happen. So groceries on the doorstep and checks in the mail that would just cover bills. And, you know, somebody paid for my sister to be born in a hospital.
We didn't have insurance. I mean, just amazing things, a car given to us out of the blue by a homeschool family. And that gave me a story. That gave me something to sing about. It gave me a testimony when I started full time at 16 in music.
Unsung Hero was such a good testament to God's faithfulness in your family. And if folks have not seen it, they should get a copy. I'm not sure how you do that nowadays. Is it DVD or you stream it, right? Are we up to streaming? OK, good. So stream it.
Look for it. Unsung Hero. But they depicted it so well. And your mom and dad. OK, so here's the thing, Cubby, I'll turn your way. You're both creative people.
That right there is usually a red flag for marriage. Two creative people coming together. I mean, speak to your creative bent, Cubby, where you were coming from. Music was something you enjoyed.
What was your background? Yeah, he helped direct Unsung Hero. Yeah, that's right. That was a bold move to get into the family and say, let me help direct that. And that's an in-law move.
I didn't try that in my marriage. But go ahead. Well, luckily I was invited in. So that was good. That helps.
Yes, it does. But yeah, I grew up in a really creative family. My dad was a drummer. My mom was an artist. Grew up with some form of an art project or music rendition pretty much on a daily basis. My mom would spread out big rolls of butcher paper across the counter and my sister and I would draw and paint and then my dad would have his drum set up in the garage and I'd go out and mess around on those. And when I was about eight or nine, I discovered kind of music for myself.
I stumbled across my parents' old record collection, happened to stumble across Rubber Soul, the Beatles record and was able to figure out the record player and put that on. And that kind of changed the trajectory of my life in regards to just a passion and love for music and started playing guitar in junior high. And then in high school, I was in a band and we lost our bass player and said, hey, I'll fill in until we find somebody new. And little did I know I was the new guy and ended up falling in love with the bass at that point and really became kind of the instrument that just really resonated with me as a person and just in my makeup, it just felt right on every level. And so yeah, that just kind of began the process of just a creative journey and thought I was headed towards L.A. after high school but got out of the plans and ended up on the mission field for a little while. So cool.
We're going to catch up with that and get more into it. But there's at least one person out there going, Cubby, where do you get the name Cubby? Yes. Gets asked a lot. It is a common question. And the irony is a lot of people think it comes from my real name, which is Jacob, Jacob Cubby. But the truth is it came from birth.
My dad thought I looked like a bear cub when I was born because I had a full head of hair and apparently came out growling. You weren't calling for salmon, I doubt, at that age. But you were like, give me salmon. Right.
That's not what you're doing. Rebecca, let me go back to your story a bit just to paint the picture. During that time in the movie again, Unsung Hero, you kind of you depicted that where you were not the one knocking down doors. I mean, you sang somewhere, somebody heard you and went, wow, she's really good and said something to your dad about it. Like she could be something big. That's really interesting. But when you got into it, I mean, you had some vocal strain, you had issues.
Down the track. Yeah. Yeah. Speak to that. You know, Lord, I thought you called me into this and now I got all these physical things going on.
Yeah. I mean, really, you know, I talk about it in the book, but there was a form of losing my voice that came from stress. It wasn't anything physical. I'd done vocal training and all of that. But I think after nearly 20 years of music and starting so young, like starting at such a vulnerable age, you know, my first tour at 13 in Australia with Carmen and then full time at 16, I think what I didn't understand at that point that really every balanced adult human being needs to learn is how to guard your heart. Like the Bible talks about guard your heart because out of it flow the well springs of life. And I didn't know at that point how to make a call for healthy nose.
I think sometimes there's healthy nose and there's healthy yeses. And I needed to protect my own heart. And so I was really burning out. And so my body was fighting back and saying, well, if you're not going to kind of bring some more balance into the schedule, you know, I'm going to shut down on you just out of stress. I think our bodies show these signs of warning, warning, red light. You got to change some things. And if you don't listen, if you override that long enough, our bodies shut down on us. And that's what was happening. So I was struggling to sing and to breathe for kind of a form of a panic attack on stage, honestly. No, that's amazing. You know, let me ask because a general application, you know, someone doesn't have to be in the music business to experience these things.
But I think particularly I'd say Jean, my wife, you know, early in her teen and 20-somethings, very much a people-pleaser. And I was going to ask that question, is that kind of common in the industry? I mean, you're trying to, you know, get a gig and you got to kind of, you know, make exceptions and do things and not do things you want to do in order to get the jobs you need. So I would think that would be part of it. Crowd-pleasing, if I could say it that way. It's got to be part of what kind of turns your crank, so to speak, because, you know, that's just part of the makeup.
You're in front, you're on stage. Kabir, you experienced that too in your band. Speak to that issue as a Christian then, you know, not living for that, but living for something different. And what is that something different? Yeah, I think the people-pleasing thing, you just hit the nail on the head. My personality type is more of a helper. And so, and I like to encourage and sow into people and serve and give. Like Mother Teresa was my hero. Which is a good thing.
Yeah, yeah. And I saw, you know, these heroes of the faith that would just like serve and give and pour themselves out. And I was like, that's how I want to be.
But what I didn't see is the dark side of that. If you, if you pour yourself out too much without refilling, then you're not going to be filled up enough to continue to give. And even as a mom, I'm learning that in a fresh way too. I want to be the best version of myself for my kids. Like Danny and I in our show Practice Makes Parent, we talk about that. We want to, as parents, we want to be the best version of ourselves for our kids. So what does that look like to where we're filling up so that we can be our best for them?
So I didn't know how to do that in those years. I think I'm still learning in a different way now as a mom. But I think it's a call to all of us because all of us are dealing with stress and anxiety in some level. It plays out somewhere because our lives are just crazy, right?
In the modern world, the Western world that we live in. So we have to know how to guard our hearts. Yeah. For the, for the parents listening, I didn't set that up. Your kids are how old?
You want the Tascabi or you want me to have Rebecca answer that question? We've got 10. Our oldest is 10, Gemma. And then Imogen, our middle is six. And then our youngest boy is four.
And his name is River. That's great. I love that. So you guys are right in the thick of it. It's so good you're doing that podcast with Dr. Wirth on parenting and people could look that up on the website.
Let me ask you this. In your book, Lasting Ever, you talk about God seeing us and that desire for us to know and be known. And in that context, you point to Psalm 139. What's the connection with Psalm 139? It's one of my favorite Psalms, probably my favorite Psalm, actually. Even when I sign autographs, I sign Psalm 139 a lot because it just, it says to every single one of us that belongs to Jesus. And every single one of his children, we, he searches us, he knows us, he sees every move.
He, he is so for us and with us and has seen us before we were born. And I just love that sense of like God sees these parts of my heart that, that no one else sees and he loves me anyway. And I wrote a song actually called Psalm 139 on my second album, my God album. It's the hidden track.
Do you remember when hidden tracks were kind of a thing? So it's on that album and it just, it pretty much just says a good part of the Psalm in the song. But I think even at that age at 17, when I wrote that song, I needed to know that, that God sees me in those quiet places. I don't need to be seen by all these thousands of people all around the world to feel affirmed. He sees me and loves me and receives me.
Okay. True love. If I may, let's fast forward to this season where you're both kind of waiting for God to show you the spouse and Rebecca, you'd been very clear about this Republic about it.
And Cubby, I think you had some observations. You were committed in your heart, but observe some things in the Christian community. It was hard for both of you. What carried you through that? Because I have kids that are in their thirties and thinking, when?
So there's a commitment there to be made and a trust in God, but how do you walk that through? It was a painful reality for me that I found myself in my early thirties, living in LA, unmarried, and really the whole dream of my life had been to be a wife and mom. Like music was a tide me over till that.
And yet it had not happened yet. And I'd been so public all around the world saying, you know, got the song, wait for me about my future husband. And honestly, I think even my vocal issues that I had in large part were because when I would sing, wait for me, it was hope deferred, making the heart sick.
Like it's, I struggled to even breathe through that song sometimes because it was so vulnerable. What if this doesn't happen? What if there is no guy and that dream of my heart, you know, what if it didn't come true? And I remember being, you know, in my early thirties there in LA and just wrestling with God about it and really him calling me to this place of even if this doesn't happen, Lord, give me the strength to still trust you and trust your goodness and stay true to you even if this dream doesn't happen for me. And I remember coming to that place of surrender. I even have a song about it called I can trust you, but it's a painful surrender right when we kind of lay down these, these big dreams of our heart.
But it was soon after that, that we met. And I do think that that was part of the place of freedom that God wanted to bring me and maybe laying in some ways something down that could have been an idol. Paul's verse in Philippians where he talked about being content in all things. Yeah. And maybe, maybe sometimes God wants us to be content right where we are, even though our heart yearns for something else. Yeah.
Yeah. That's, that's actually been probably my favorite verse through my journey with faith is Paul saying that I've been content, found a way to be content in all things. And, and I've, in my journey towards marriage and Rebecca, there was a point where, and I think it was, it was something I learned in the sermon, but essentially if you can't be content unmarried, you're never going to be content married.
If you can't be content without money, you're going to never going to be content with money. So all these things that we strive towards that we think are going to make us happy or bring us fulfillment. If we can't be content without them, when we actually get them, we're not going to be able to be content because it's really finding contentment in our, where we are in our position with the Holy Spirit, in our sonship or daughtership, in our identity in Christ, that's where we find contentment. It's not in the physical things or in the marriage, but if we can be content here, we can bring that contentment into marriage. And it just makes it all the more fulfilling. That's a really, that's the gold nugget of the program so far is just that idea that be content where God has you. And I think when you can turn to him, when you can smile, when you can be okay on the mountain top or down in the valley, then he's got your heart and he knows it. And I think that's what puts a smile on his face because you are his when you can be content in all things.
And if you're not, it would indicate that you need a deeper relationship with the Lord. Let's get to a lighter side. I want to turn the corner on your courtship, if I could call it that. So I was talking to Jean about this this morning. I'll get your answer and I'll tell you what she said. So you guys, I think you met and then, you know, it was kind of like, when are we going to get together?
And while I'm heading to the airport, do you want to give me a ride? What happened in that moment? Cubby, this is not good. We're going right to your Achilles heel. Oh man. Yes.
Yeah. There was, there was multiple points in our early dating saga that I thought I had completely blown it. But that went specifically, that went specifically. So this was after the kind of our, kind of our first date we had met and, and she had come to one of my shows in LA and we ended up kind of spending the evening after my show together and we played pool and got good food. And then somewhere along the line, she said, Oh, I've got an early flight tomorrow morning. I'm probably need to turn in. And, and I volunteered to take her to the airport, which was very nice of you. Yes.
Very nice. And what happened? Not necessarily the wisest offering of service because I lived, I lived about 45 minutes to an hour from the airport.
She lived about five minutes from the airport. So it made no sense at all. I tried to shut it down, but it was like, no, let me do it. Kind of nice. Yeah. Wow.
Okay. I was absolutely set on making this commitment a reality. So I said, no, I'm going to do it. I go home. I set my alarm to wake up to be able to get to her house on time, fall asleep. I'm dead tired only to wake up to my alarm, to look at my clock and realize that I'd set my alarm for when I needed to be at her, at her front door, not when I needed to leave. So I immediately jump out of bed, rush down to my truck and start flying down the freeway.
And she eventually calls and say, Hey, I need to leave here pretty soon. Are you getting close? And I was still quite a ways away. And I said, I'm coming, but I'm a bit away. Honk, honk.
Lots of traffic, lots of traffic. This is terrible. Just hold tight. And eventually she got to the point where she's like, you know what? I'm going to have to get a cab and my heart is sinking. And and I basically said, okay, if you have to get a cab, fine, but I'm still going to come meet you at the airport. Bingo.
Okay. So it all worked out and you got to the curb and there she was. That was your saving grace.
According to my wife, she said, Oh man, if he had not done that, I don't think I'd keep dating. Well, I followed through at least to be able to see her. And the fun thing is when I pulled into the airport, a cab pulled right in front of me and the silhouette in the window looked a little like hers. And I ended up calling her and I said, Hey, I think I just pulled up right behind your cab. And sure enough, she turned around and waved and we had a moment. We definitely had a moment.
He helped me check in and took my bags in. And he was fighting for me. I think that really did like to go that extra mile, literally, you know, I think it was like 45 miles if I heard the story, but he did pursue me. And I think I had had guys in the past that were somewhat intimidated by my platform and you know what had happened already in my life at that point and the notoriety of it and didn't really pursue me that well. We're just kind of insecure and kind of played it safe. And he wasn't playing it safe. He was going after me and my heart in this really impressive way. So I think it really did stand out to me. So it was one of your better moments in the end. Let's cover the proposal.
Everybody loves that. So how did you do this cubby? I mean, what were you thinking? It was a bit of an undertaking. So the funny thing is, whenever I felt peace about buying the ring and moving towards engagement, I had this image of Rebecca and I in the snow on a moonlit evening, me getting down on a knee with candles surrounding the scene and me proposing.
And that was kind of the scene I had in my head. She ended up inviting me to join her for Christmas in Nashville. So it was my first time doing a small-bone family Christmas. And the thing about Nashville is it doesn't snow very much, hardly ever. Maybe once or twice a year, you'll get a little dusting, but that's about it. And generally never on Christmas.
Right. And so I went out to Nashville about a week before Christmas and had a few things to do. One of those things was ask her dad for permission to marry his daughter. Oh, so you had that planned. Had that planned. And then once I got the go-ahead from him, it was all guns blazing to get this plan kind of sorted.
So I identified this spot. They've got some acreage there at the family farm and identified a spot for the proposal and went to the store and bought a bunch of candles and set up a little Christmas tree with a fire ring and a log that we could sit on. And I'd kind of been checking the weather pretty religiously leading up to Christmas Eve because it was showing rain on Christmas Eve, which was a little devastating.
I was like, man, am I going to have to go to Plan B? If it's raining at this, none of this is going to work. And then about a day before Christmas Eve, the forecast changed from rain to snow. And sure enough, we all pile in the van to go to Christmas Eve service and it starts snowing. And by the time we get home, there's a blanket of two or three inches on the ground.
It's magical. And we have our Christmas Eve dinner and we watch a movie and I ended up falling asleep. And it's a wonderful life right before he's about to propose to me.
And let me say this. He did not know I was going to say yes. At that point, we had not said I loved you to each other. We hadn't talked marriage. We were nine months into dating and I loved him. I knew I wanted him to be the one, but I didn't know this was coming. So yeah, you know, even guts here.
Yeah, there's a lot riding on it. I know a lot riding on it, but woke up from from my little nap during the movie. Everybody started going to bed. I said, Hey, Rebecca, do you want to take a walk in the snow? It's such a beautiful evening. And sure enough, the moon had come out and just this beautiful moonlit effect like Hallmark movie. Yeah, it really was. So I ran up and got all the candles lit and the fire going and came back and had a little thermos of tea. And we made our way up the hill and eventually saw this glowing pathway to to the to the scene and vision worked out.
Yeah, like what you pad pictured actually worked out. And I said, Yes, left. Nobody fell.
No, everything worked. Did you even hesitate, Rebecca? How did that hit you? I was so in shock. Like all these presents that he had orchestrated. I had a I frog in my apartment back in L.A. that said waiting on the bench. And the frog was just sitting there, you know, waiting for his frog princess. And so he'd noticed that. So he found a little frog and put a little note around it that said, Wait, no more. He'd written out a scroll of all these things he loved about me.
And he said, I love you at the end. And I thought, this is huge. But it wasn't until he actually got the ring out that I was like, this is happening. This is actually happening.
I just thought he was being super nice for Christmas. I mean, I was like, just my mind was just going, this is the moment that I've been waiting for my whole entire life. And I said, yes, I mean, it was like, this is it. But I was just like, I'm in a movie right now.
This is actually happening. And so it was just glorious and amazing. And I'm so thankful that God brought me this prince of a man and that we get to live life together and that my dreams came true. But it was it was amazing that pivot point of like, you see your whole future differently in those seconds.
Your whole life changes. Now, what a story. Everybody's out there going perfect. That was perfect. Way to go cubby.
And then we're getting some elbows from some of the wives to the husband's ribs. Like, why didn't you do it that way? But, you know, Rebecca, what's so impressive is, again, you and I talking over the years and knowing your heart and your desire to be. I mean, you have this incredible successful music career and you're going, what I really want, Lord, is to be married and have children.
That's so beautiful. And what I'd love to do is keep our conversation going. I want to talk about purity, because I know both of you, that was important to you before you got married.
That's kind of a wobbly concept in the modern culture, the Christian culture. So let's continue our discussion and folks can go and hear more about that. But it is so good to meet you, Cubby, and to hear your story. And what a great book, Lasting Ever, Faith, Music, Family and Being Found by True Love. I mean, that's that's the love story. You did it. The Lord created it for you.
He was faithful. And I just want to encourage folks, if you'd like to, you know, think about maybe you're going to get married or maybe you've been married just recently, or maybe you've been married a while. There's some wonderful things to learn from this great book from Rebecca and Cubby. So get a hold of us. If you can make a gift on a monthly basis, that's great. Be part of the ministry. Let's save marriages together.
Let's save babies lives. Let's do all the work that is being done here on a monthly basis. And if you can do that, we'll send you a copy of the book as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry.
A one time gift helps as well. Yeah, we'd love to hear from you. Our number is 800, the letter A in the word family, 800-232-6459. And then we've got details to donate and get a copy of this book in the show notes. And as we referenced, we're going to link over to the podcast that Rebecca and Dr. Danny Wirta host for us called Practice Makes Parent. It's a great show, updated weekly, and I know you'll enjoy that. And then we have another podcast series called Loving Well.
We refresh that every year. And with Valentine's Day coming up, it's a great time to get some ideas and to talk about stories and how God has been part of your love story. So check out Loving Well. On behalf of the entire team, thanks for joining us for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Hey there, listen to my latest podcast on Refocus with Jim Daly. Author Tim Geglein shares his optimistic views on how America can experience renewal by turning back to God. Listen at refocuswithjimdaily.com.
