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Please call 800 the letter A and the word family or visit focusonthefamily.com slash gift. If you can only find one thing positive to think about your spouse, think about that. Thank God for that aspect of your spouse and it's an upward spiral. If you think more positively about your spouse, you're going to begin feeling more positive. You're speaking from conviction. I'm a little worried.
I read about this somewhere, but it helps. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and that was a moment from a conversation we featured last time on the show. Our panel consisted of Jim and Jean Daly and they were joined by our colleagues, Dr. Greg and Erin Smalley, who head up the marriage team here at Focus on the Family. Well, it's obvious we were having a great time in the studio and it's always fun to have Jean join me. I always feel blessed when she's here with me. And of course, having Greg and Erin in, they're walking in the door every day trying to do all we can do to help marriages.
So they're on top of things and they're strategically thinking every day how to help you and so many more married couples. There were some serious moments mixed in there. I think we were very vulnerable, which I appreciate. I've always said we need to show that vulnerability.
We are not perfect people and we don't want to project that. We were discussing some simple, easy ways that couples can improve their relationship, things like nurturing your marriage and letting it grow into everything that God intended your marriage to be. And we're still working on that.
That's the confession. We also talked about working through unmet expectations and how men and women tend to think and act very differently from each other. It's so true. And we said it in the program, you know, first you say we should get married. We're so much alike.
And then you go, wow, how are we so different? And it's all solid, practical advice that we just sometimes need to be reminded of. But it helps to know where to go and have a plan. And if you missed the conversation last time, get the download or watch the previous episode on YouTube. Or better yet, get our Focus on the Family app and you have access to the entire library of the Focus program. Yeah, we have so much to offer. And as was mentioned last time, much of what you're about to hear was published by Focus on the Family in a book that Jim has compiled called The Healthy Marriage Devotional, 365 Daily Inspirations to Bring You Closer Together.
It's a wonderful resource and you can learn more in the show notes. And Jim, here's how you began part two of the panel conversation on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. You talk about this, why couples need to choose kind of who is going to win when they get into that argument. You know, when you're getting into a little discussion, I've had people, you know, text us and say, if you're Christian, you shouldn't argue. OK, but you know, the real world is you do come to some differences. But I like that idea of thinking through who's going to win here. And I know your answer, obviously, but sometimes stopping to think that through in the middle of emotions is a little hard.
But explain who wins. Yeah, well, oftentimes we'll oppose our spouse. And oftentimes, yes, because yes, when we're triggered, we're not thinking about our spouse and their pain, their feelings, how they're doing. Our pain is screaming. And so sometimes we end up setting it up that one of us is going to win. One of us is going to lose. And then our team loses. So really looking at when we're entering into differences and differences of opinion, different likes, dislikes that, you know, what is it really that's going to work for our team? What's a win win?
So how can we win together? And I can think about several years back we moved, we sold our house and we were moving into a new house. And the people buying our house wanted a lot of our furniture. They wanted to buy our furniture. So we kind of had a running list of what we could do for the new house.
And it was very succinct. And so one time we were with all of our kids and the girls and I were talking about what I was going to purchase first. And so I was just going on and on. Oh, and we need that new couch and that table and blah, blah, blah.
What about our hot tub? And all of a sudden he snapped like right in the middle. And I was like, what just happened? Oh, because it was so stressing me out because the list got so long that it was like double the money that we were going to spend.
And so it stressed me out to the point that I did. I said, Aaron, you promise you'll stick in the budget and nothing you're talking about is in the budget. And all the kids wide eyed looking at me like, what is wrong with that?
Budget master. And so I'm kind of huffing in my chair and Aaron gets up and walks straight at me. And it was the first time in our 32 years of marriage that I really was like, is she going to grab me?
Certainly she won't hit me. Like, what's about to happen? She came right over and grabbed my cheeks with both her hands and held me. And she got real close. And I am so confused.
I have no idea what is going to happen. And she goes, I want you to remember one thing. I'm like, yes, ma'am. She goes, we are on the same team. And because of that, I won't spend a dime unless it's something that you and I agree to. And we decide together. You matter and I matter. We'll figure this out together.
Teammate. She kissed me and then just like dropped my head and I flung back in the chair. And then she goes right back over the girls and her kept dreaming up of all this, whatever she was going to get. It really was it. We had we had taught that idea for four years. But it just it was such a comfort being reminded that we are on the same team.
We're in this together. But I got to ask the question, did she go over the budget? She did not.
Way to go. That was somebody out there thinking, did she go over and what you do about it? We I mean, we we even got different stuff and even was on the list, but we talked that through. And that's what's cool about that is it just relaxes everybody. Yeah, so true.
We didn't get a hot tub, though, so I'm still angling for that. So, Jim, in the book, The Healthy Marriage Devotional, you write about the wrong formula couples use in conflict. So if you write about the wrong one, what's the right one?
That's a great question. I think Jean is probably better at this. And I think you taught me what how to do this a little better. Over the years, you've just become so skilled at slowing down, thinking about what you want to say. And I think I've learned this through observing her and how she began to treat our conflict from time to time. And, you know, she would say, let's deal with this later or let's calm down or whatever it might be. And you need that.
You need some cool head in the moment to say, I don't think this is the healthiest time to be doing this. I would say I actually didn't come up with it myself. I really observed it and how Jean began to deal with those moments when we had conflict and she would slow us down together and kind of say, let's take this up later tonight or not right now. Those are some of the things. I mean, I'm not a big formula guy. That's my spontaneity.
So I even cringe a little thinking formula. But there are good predictive behaviors that we can do that give us better results. And that that was part of it. Just how do we ratchet down the emotion in the moment so we can get to a better place emotionally.
Yeah. And talk these things through. And that's, I think, the secret. Well, even I mean, it's not necessarily a formula, but, you know, in Matthew where Jesus is saying, hey, why do you look at the dust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the log?
And he does kind of give us a formula in order first. Get the I always wanted to say, get the dust out of your brother's eye, because I'm so aware of what Aaron could do in that moment to change or to do different so that I feel better. I've tried to help her. That works so well. The right thing is, though, is how do I get the log out of my own eye? And what you're saying is, how do I take that break to allow my emotions to calm down? Well, we have choice in what we do. I always thought, just do what comes naturally. That doesn't work, by the way. So being intentional, slowing it down, I can actually calm down inside and think rationally about what I want to do, how I want to show up.
Yeah. Well, the scriptures talk to husbands to treat your wife in a tender, kind way. And we can't do that when our emotions are all heightened. So even that requires that break that you're talking about. That's a good part of the formula. Well, it's writing the word and we got to know the word to apply the word.
So read the word. It helps. Well, I have a question for you, Greg. Oh, boy. This is good.
I like it. You've written a lot of books about marriage. And one of the strategies you urge couples to use is something you call heart talk.
So what is heart talk and how does it work, especially when there's a conflict between a husband and wife? You're the one that came up with that? No, that was probably Bob Paul, our colleague that came up with that.
That's funny. You know, one of the things that I learned that was so helpful is that there's a great researcher, John Gottman, and he talks about he says that 70 percent of all arguments are perpetual. In other words, there is not a solution. And what that means is that you think about that we're trained to do conflict resolution, to find the solution, to fix whatever the problem is. And that's not reality. The truth is that most of our conflicts are about personality differences. Aaron's extroverted, I'm introverted. That's not going to change. Although it is.
You become more introverted, which is good. But so it's not how do we resolve that personality differences or even lifestyle. You know, Aaron and I battle over lights being on in our home. Aaron, lifestyle-wise, loves having every light on. And it drives me crazy. I like to create a mood in the house.
Don't ever use the every or most or always. It's always. I went to bed early last night, got up because something was bugging me. And I realized someone left the hall light on all night long, like all the money that we wasted. We could have given that to focus on the family. But that's gone now because the lights are on.
That stuff's not going away. And so the goal really for me changed from how do we resolve or solve the problem to how do we repair it, which requires us to lean in more to the emotion. And that's the heart talk part. I love Teddy Roosevelt said, people don't care what you know. So I don't care how you're going to solve it, resolve it until they know that you care. And in that, that took me a long time to realize actually the best place to begin for me with when we're trying to work through a conflict. Is this a lean into the emotions to care about? How did that impact Aaron? Not how do we solve it?
How do we figure out what the right temperature setting is for our home, which is sixty five degrees, by the way. It's it's just caring about that. So it it took me to learn that that I have to look at our conflict very differently and go, how do we just repair the inevitable stuff that comes up around the differences and in all that. And that just means the heart talk part is is prioritizing how that impacted her heart, how that caused her to feel. Yeah. And so, you know, whenever we argue now, that's I can always go to that place of going, OK, so when this and this and this happened, how did that make you feel?
What was that like for you? And just care. And that's that's transformed our conflict because it's it's the right goal. And you're tipping into the question I wanted to ask everybody.
But, Jean, you don't have to answer this one. When it comes to the intimacy issue, I mean, intimacy is much bigger than just physical intimacy. It's that emotional intimacy.
And this is a great battle between male and female. You know, it's part of it is brain chemistry and wiring and what the Lord, you know, how he's created us. But you mentioned developing that intimacy throughout the day and and then being able to combine that for emotional intimacy, physical intimacy. It's probably, you know, finances and physical intimacy are probably the two biggest problems that arise in marriage.
Huge arguments. So in that regard, speak to that right way to see this and how to sow the seeds going back to yesterday so that, you know, this doesn't become a big debate issue in your marriage. Well, as we talked about on day one, we're busy.
People run at fast paces and small kids or big kids or work or church commitments. Yeah. And so it's we encourage couples to look at things that are already happening on their plate and utilize those to to build connection throughout the day.
You know, simple things. We call them connection rituals. How do we say goodbye when someone's leaving? How do we show each other we care about each other before we part ways for the day?
Do we check in throughout the day? How do we greet each other when we come back home? Are we dropping what we're doing and turning toward and, you know, meeting each other with the holy kiss, greeting each other? I like the holy kiss. Good.
Yeah, it's beautiful. But especially how are we saying good night at the end of the day? What are we doing in that moment? Are we praying together? Are we offering praise to each other? You know, are we affirming each other before we go to sleep? Because that's the last word our spouse is going to hear from us before they drift off to sleep. And each of those things you just mentioned, those do not take much time at all.
And what you've mentioned is like three minutes totally in the day. And it is in part dying to ourselves. Maybe you don't feel like affirming your spouse, but that's the right thing to do. And as you affirm yours, we affirm one another, then you feel more in love with your spouse and they become more kinder and gentler towards you. And it kind of feeds on each other in a good way, a positive way. You know, we talked about the secrets of a happy marriage through the survey results.
And one thing in there was find activities that you like to share together. So, Gene, you've done a great job. I mean, you could care less about football years ago.
And of course, I would want to watch a football game that breaks our heart. Over time, you know, Gene would sit there with me and tell me more about that guy's family. I don't know anything about his family.
Does he have children? I don't know. But it was fun. I mean, and you've really done that. I mean, you've become a fan and you sit with me for a bit of the game and or all the game if it's a Broncos game. Right.
But you're right. Initially, I didn't care, but I wanted to be around you. But oh, no, the NFL has my number. I'm their target audience.
They do those little side stories about the family. And then I pulled you in. So I have become quite a fan. But it started with just wanting to spend time with you and getting into your world. Yeah. I think the other thing, although now it's a little more difficult physically because I've got a hip issue, but walking with you is something I'm I try to do with you a little more. Right.
And that's true. And I love to go on kind of easy hikes. And I know Jim has done that with me.
Not because you love hiking, but because he knows I enjoy it. We drive together. So you talk together. And I would say, you know, one of the simplest things we do now, but we do have more time and space in our life. Our morning time together.
So we'll have coffee together. And we do often have a quiet time together, do some reading and praying and that. I think we both enjoy it.
And it is such a connection time for us. Verily bonding. You know, that's one of the things every couple should do.
A Christian couple, for sure. And the beauty of what you're talking about is the reason why that's important is because we're always changing. And so if we don't have those little devo times or those walks to where we're asking the questions to stay current and updated, then then Aaron and I will lose sight of each other. We start to drift and all of a sudden we feel like married roommates.
And so that's what's so cool about that. It's not just, hey, we'll have coffee together. It's you're using that to ask each other, hey, tell me about your day or how you feel about this. What's God been teaching you?
All those conversation starter kinds of stuff. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and our panel of guests include Jim's wife, Jean, and our colleagues, Dr. Greg and Aaron Smalley. And they're discussing a new Focus on the Family book compiled by Jim. The title is The Healthy Marriage Devotional. Three hundred and sixty five daily inspirations to bring you closer together.
We'll tell you more about the resource when you call eight hundred the letter A in the word family or check the show notes to learn more. And now the conclusion of our panel conversation on today's Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Greg, before the little break, I want to finish that idea of intimacy. You have talked a lot about the importance of sharing things with your spouse first. I don't know if she wants to know my golf score.
I don't know, Jean, are you? It depends on how impressive it is. OK, I don't love hearing the golf score, but if it's important to you, then I want you to share that with me. But what are you getting at with share things with your spouse first? Yeah, it's kind of that idea of biblically first fruits in giving our very best.
That's a good concept. I know for me, I've had the privilege of preaching, you know, a church before in in when there's multiple services. What really stood out is that first time that that I share that particular message.
Me and I bring the passion, the emotion, the energy. It's the best in that sense. You know, the second or third service, it's polished. You know, I figured out now the right timing. But it's that first time that we share something has all that emotion, the passion and that energy that deserves. And so why I want to share things with her first, because I want to offer that that gift of going, man, you know, even even if it's clunky and I don't have all the right details or I go on and on about something, if if she gets to hear that first, she gets to see probably the the the real me versus the this is my third time to say it. So now I've got it down and it's even funnier and I don't cry this time. It's it's that's the benefit of sharing with her first.
It's good. That's a great concept. I'm kind of smiling because, you know, in terms of sharing with your spouse first. So I remember one time we did a broadcast with a marriage expert and I can't remember all the content, but they said, you know, you need to do three things when you see each other at the end of the day.
Have a long kiss, look at each other in the eye for 10 seconds and then ask one another how your day was. So I that's really good. I like that. So I get home that night and I can pop in the door. Come give me a big.
That's right. And I'm we're locking lips to three. And then I'm like, OK, kiss me.
Big kiss. And then I said, was there something about your day that was great or not so great? And she goes, who did you record with today? She's on to you.
It was obvious, but he's trying. It wasn't the normal way I would come home. Sometimes I do that. I still do that.
You know, when there's a great growth about marriage, I'll come home and jeans jeans, my guinea pig. But I don't ask anymore. I guess that's a slam. I mean, he's trying.
Yeah, he's trying. In the back of your head. You are thinking, sure.
I wonder who you're recording. Well, that's a good thing. Jim, I'll never forget Erin and I celebrating our 25th anniversary on a cruise. So we're up on the top.
Sun is dipping below. It's beautiful. And I was all inspired. It felt like a really great season, our marriage. So I say to Erin, hey, how would you rate our marriage from 0 to 10? Thinking certainly an eight point nine, if not nine.
Leave her room to grow. Yeah. And so she goes, well, if I'm being honest, probably a six or seven. And I felt so devastated.
I was so such a failure as a husband, even though we're sitting in this beautiful place. And I know in the book, you asked a very similar question, which takes a lot of courage. Yeah.
You've got to be brave. I think you asked Jean, what are two things that I can be doing to improve our marriage? Wow. Yeah.
And I'll get to that. But we did have that discussion to the rating game. I think I was a nine and she was a three.
Yeah. I don't recommend rating. You rated her a three and she rated you a nine?
No, no, no. I rated our marriage a nine. She said, I think it's a three. Wow. Okay. Which led then to the next step.
Yes. I remember taping with a marriage expert and I come home and I say, what are two things I can do to improve our marriage? And she like, well, one, boom, and told me, and two, boom. And I think he even had a third.
Three and four, a bonus. So, but I mean, it's like, wow, she had this ready to go. And I was kind of shocked by that.
I have always been shocked that you were shocked by that. That's true. You are prepared for everything. You should know that you need to improve. I just, I didn't realize it had been 15 years she had been waiting for that question. But it was good. I mean, it wasn't dramatic stuff. It was like, I just want like heart talk. I want more meaningful talk. I don't want to talk about superficial things always, which that was good. And then I can't even now remember the second one.
I actually can't remember the other one either. Obviously, I've been waiting for you to ask me. Hang on. Okay. But it's hard. Why do you think it's so hard for guys to hear that sort of feedback from our wives?
Because we'll have to change the way we behave. That's it. But here's the question.
Okay, what are two things I could do to improve our marriage now? Oh, he's being brave. Yeah, I'm out there. Oh, that is awesome. Right. It wasn't this last time. It was like one, two, three. So that's an improvement.
That is definitely an improvement. What a place to end the program today. Jim has no improvement points. Well, and I just want to share with listeners or those watching. I mean, you may be thinking that we each have, of course, we have perfect marriages.
You know, you two are therapists and write books and Jim heads up focus on the family. But we don't have perfect marriages because we're imperfect people. We will always be imperfect people. But I do encourage people to stick with it. You know, your perfect person isn't out there.
They're likely in your home with you. And it is all about, you know, trying to become a better you, you know, working on me, working on my relationship with the Lord, looking at my heart, which helps me become a better spouse. And if I'm kinder to Jim, he becomes kinder and a better spouse to me.
So it really is worth working on. That's a great thought and a good place to end. Let me say thanks for being here. Greg and Erin, it's so good to have you. Thank you.
Absolutely. This was great. Some pretty profound insights from our panel on this episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Jim, you were joined in the studio by your wife, Jean, and our colleagues, Dr. Greg Smalley and his wife, Erin, to discuss a book you've put together.
You've compiled a lot of great little nuggets of truth. The Healthy Marriage Devotional is the title of the book. The subtitle, 365 Daily Inspirations to Bring You Closer Together. Yeah, it was my privilege to work on this with Kenny Chapman, who helped me collect and organize various tips and stories about marriage that we've featured on this program from many of the experts you and I have interviewed, John.
And it was a lot of fun reviewing that content, compiling it, and again with Jean and Greg and Erin, getting their input on that as well. It's always wise to get the input of your spouse. Especially when you're writing about marriage.
Yeah, you don't want to do that out there on a limb. Of course, we want to pass this resource on to you. If you can send a gift of any amount to Focus on the Family, we'll say thank you by sending you this devotional. Think of it as an early Christmas gift for your marriage or for another couple you might know.
Yeah, in that context you might want several copies. Either way, donate generously, request the book. Our number is 800, the letter A in the word family, 800-232-6459. Or you can contribute to the work we're doing here to strengthen marriages when you click the link in the show notes. And coming up tomorrow, some practical help from Dr. Gary Chapman about how to navigate the relationship between parents and adult children. We can't change our adult children in their decisions. We can't control them.
When we do, we lose the opportunity to influence them. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Focus on the Family You want your teenager to become a successful adult, right?
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