For more than 25 years, Monica suffered from an addiction to drugs and alcohol, fueled in part by her painful and shameful past. The thought would come to my mind that I had had these abortions.
I would not want to think about it because the pain was just too real. Thankfully, God healed Monica's heart and today she supports Focus on the Family's pro-life ministry. I want to support a ministry that can help change the trajectory of people's lives that are contemplating abortion. I can't go back in time and change my life and change my decisions, but I can support a ministry that can help possibly change someone else's.
I'm Jim Daly. Let's save babies and give families hope today. Donate and your gift will be doubled.
Call 800-AFAMILY or visit FocusOnTheFamily.com slash gift. Make sure that we are in prayer with each other and that we are doing a devotion every single day to share where we really are in life. Now that school is back in session, my wife and I like to get together for lunch every day as a way to stay connected. I really take him serious and listen to what he has to say, to hear his words instead of waiting to interject what I want to say.
What do you think? Those sound like some great ideas for improving or enhancing your relationship with your spouse. Today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, we'll explore some ideas like that to help you keep your marriage strong and healthy for a lifetime. Thanks for joining us today.
I'm John Fuller. John, over the years you and I have gotten a lot of advice from all kinds of experts about how husbands and wives can have a happier, healthier marriage. Gene might say I'm not always applying it, but that's okay. I do wonder sometimes why does it take so long to get there.
People don't know the burden that we have. Our wives expect us to have a lot of knowledge on how to do it right. But I'm always looking for that golden nugget in these programs and I do take them home and talk with Gene about them.
And those are great ideas that do stand out and can be used even by so-called experts. One of those nuggets, and I don't even remember who said it, was about how some couples don't need elaborate grand gestures to keep their relationship strong. Things like fancy romantic dinners or a wonderful weekend getaway, which all sounds good. Maybe buying expensive gifts for each other. But in reality, good marriages are built on the little things, the simple ways that husbands and wives show their love each and every day.
And again, it's not complicated or necessarily expensive. All you need to do is speak kindly to one another, listen to one another, spend time together doing things that you enjoy together. It's just easy, everyday ideas like that. Yeah, and what I love about this ministry is we can be kind of a drip irrigation for people who want to keep their marriages in a good place. And Jim, you've compiled some great ideas, simple, practical ideas for couples in a new book. It's published by Focus on the Family, and the title is The Healthy Marriage Devotional. 365 inspirations to bring you closer together. And what we'd like to share now is a panel conversation we recorded about this devotional featuring you, Jim, along with Gene, and our colleagues, Dr. Greg and Erin Smalley, who lead the marriage effort here at Focus on the Family. Jim, here's how you started the conversation on today's episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. One key theme that we want to address is the importance of nurturing your marriage. I think that's probably the number one thing. Would everybody agree here?
Nurturing your relationship in your marriage? Absolutely. And Greg, I understand your dad, Gary, first of all, he stole all your material is what you told me.
Right. All the good books that he wrote, multi-million books. They were my ideas. Even at 10, I had some good wisdom around marriage.
Yeah, that's plagiarism. We should have been able to tell Gary that. But you said he would officiate weddings from time to time. I'm sure it was a privilege for married couples to get married by Gary Smalley. But he had a packet of seeds he would carry in his pocket for that.
But what was that story like? Yeah, I even watched him do this and thought, what a great idea. So the very first time I ever officiated a wedding, I'm like, I'm going to do what dad did.
I'm going to have the seed packets. The idea is to, I held up the bride's bouquet to everyone's beautiful bouquet and said, look how mature flowers are. Look at the colors. Like, this is the marriage that these two are dreaming about. But I said, guys, today, again, I learned this from watching my dad. Today, you're starting off as seeds. So how do you go from these seeds to nurturing your marriage so that it looks like these gorgeous, mature flowers? And I was just going to give a few points, connect them to some element of growing flowers.
Like I said, you know, Christ has to be the cornerstone of your marriage. That's good. That's like sunlight to these flowers. And I talked about something else. I said that's like water to these flowers. And then I was going to make this last point, which is 10 minutes a day of this inner life, deeper emotional communication. And I could not for the life of me remember what element of growing flowers.
So I'm just like the Statue of Liberty, just holding these flowers, going, well, the flowers need stuff like. And I couldn't come up with it. And so I just went finally something popped into my brain. I just went with it. I didn't think about it. I just wanted out of the stupid analogy.
I'm like, thanks a lot, Dad. And so I said, yeah, this 10 minutes a day, this deep conversation, that's like fertilizer. So I said to them, you two need to spend at least 10 minutes a day fertilizing each other.
And I didn't hear what that might have insinuated. Fertilizing the relationship, nurturing and doing it. Well, well, in Ephesians 529, it says to cherish and nourish. The word nourish in the Greek actually means to tend to like you would a garden. So it's just saying we've got to grow not only each other, but but our marriage as well. It's our vows that we take to have and to hold to hold means to nurture, to grow. And so it's like you were saying, we've got to keep thinking about how we do that then throughout the course.
That's so good. All right. This is going to be a little different because you're going to turn the tables on Jean and I. And you're going to ask us questions, too. We're going to ask you questions all around this devotional, this marriage devotional. But go ahead.
Fire away. Well, the first one is something that Aaron and I have never heard applied to marriage. So when we read it, we went, wow, this it actually is quite brilliant. So you talk about the second law of thermodynamics, which is about entropy, deterioration over time. And that really does apply to marriage.
So help us to better understand how does that law apply. There's so many things that apply to that, really. Dr. Dobson used to use that about managing focus on the family. This idea of entropy. You know, if you don't put energy into it, things decline. And that's certainly true of our marriage. I mean, if we don't put the effort into it, it's not going to magically happen.
We're not going to get a bouquet of flowers without tilling, planting, fertilizing. So it's the same kind of concept, just keeping the energy in there. And I think a lot of marriages struggle. And we've struggled from time to time with that where we're busy and we're not putting in the effort. And it just kind of coasts. Right. And you use that analogy, too, in terms of the drift. That's part of, you know, the exceptional marriage content that you guys have talked about, that idea of drifting.
It's just a different way of applying it. Of course, I'm married to a scientist. So I have to come up with these scientific theories.
I think we're experiencing the breakdown of the second rule of thermal dynamics. And Jean goes, I know exactly what you mean by that. I was like, well, there must be a first and a third.
Do not ask me what those are, but I like the second one. It keeps me motivated. Yeah. Well, we see a lot of couples that we that we talk to work with. They end up administrating their marriage almost to death, like instead of nurturing. Right. They're just they're having like a perpetual business meeting.
Yeah. And no one gets married to have a perpetual business meeting. Or the other thing I hear is we'll worry about our marriage later. We're so busy with everyday things and kids and on and on. And I always say there's no autopilot.
We have to pay attention to this marriage and nurture it and grow it and be intentional about that. Yeah. No, it's good.
And what do you think, Jean? No, I agree. Life happens, especially when you have young children in the home. You really don't have enough hours in the day. And you are both exhausted at night or trying to get up a little early to talk. But what we're talking about is it doesn't take that much time. Right.
And you're right to even start with good morning. Yeah. Yeah.
Just investing in little ways. That takes three seconds before launching into the to do list or even spending five minutes or the 10 minutes is really helpful. But for someone like me, you know, at that time, that busy time of life, that's too overwhelming to do that every day. And then I feel guilt and shame. But just try twice a week. Start with twice a week. Some connection time that isn't going through the to do list or what.
Budget. Yes. There are the kids. You've done that really well. I think later in our marriage particularly, we've made more time for those conversations and things, which is great. Well, but it gets easier as the kids get older.
There is more space. We've seen the enemy of marriage in their little. That is the bottom line.
That is true. We did a survey. You guys participate in that, obviously, about couples who have been married for several decades. And they talked about the secrets of a happy marriage. So what do you think some of those were?
You probably have looked at the homework already. But what did you see in that survey? Yeah. Well, just off the top of my mind. You know, I when I looked at the list, I think what what really stands out to me is just the importance of having fun together and kind of cultivating that friendship. I knew that one would stand out to you because that's his love language for sure.
Well, he's fine. Having fun or practical jokes. Okay.
I didn't know that was one of the five. Just just so it's not notice each other. I always tell Aaron, like, I know that she loves me. Like she made that commitment. I like it better when she says that she likes me over loving me.
Oh, that's good. Because that implies to me that we have a connection or in a deep friendship. And that's when I think about marriage, especially for you know, we've been married 32 years.
So when I think about 40 and 50 and 60, 70, maybe even 80, maybe it's possible. But just to join each other is I want her to be my best friend. And that that requires that we nurture that relationship. But that's the one that really stood out for me.
Yeah. Versus communication, of course, was on the list that seems to always make the list. But it's not just communicating about like we were talking about earlier business stuff or conflict happens spontaneously or just small talk facts. But really being intentional again about going under the water line and going to that heart connection, the deeper emotional connection. And we have to be intentional about that.
It doesn't happen spontaneously. Aaron keeps a feelings wheel at our dinner table. Oh, I have one next to our table. Yes.
It came out with the foster kids. I think we did. Yeah. Wait, I'm going to bring the pillow home for my office and keep that right at the table. So she'll say, give me three feeling words. I'll look at the list.
Sexy is one of the things on the list. So I go there first. You sit down to dinner and she goes, are we having a happy face dinner tonight? Yes, it's happy face.
Yes. That's funny. Some of the others don't hold grudges. I mean, I guess we're kind of gravitating toward the ones that mean something to us, but don't hold grudges is a good one. I think I think we have done that reasonably well. Probably better in the second half of our marriage than the first half. Absolutely. And, you know, I think a lot of it is it's a you can choose to think positively about your spouse. And that's a brain a hard choice.
In general, I'm speaking for others. Those seasons in life where it's busy and you're stressed and you're tired and and you don't have much bandwidth, relational bandwidth. But there is a lot of research to support if you can only find one thing positive to think about your spouse. Think about that. Thank God for that aspect of your spouse.
And it's an upward spiral. If you think more positively about your spouse, you're going to begin feeling more positive from conviction. I'm a little worried about this somewhere. But it helps. That's good. The other couple that I'll just quickly mention, we'll move on, is your love will change.
Kind of that acknowledgment. For me, that's like expectations. I'm kind of tough on that. I mean, I tend to have expectations and then they get dashed and then I get sour. I get into a mood because what I thought would happen isn't happening. And I've tried to become more mature in that way. But just kind of take the deep breath and say, OK, maybe I need to work on me, not on Jean.
And that's a good place to go. And the other one, support your spouse, which I think is really important. I think when you feel supported, you're a much better spouse. Right. For sure.
All right. Well, on that one, what was really interesting is I just I was reading Ephesians 5, 25 through 27, which it starts off to husbands, you know, love your wife as Christ of the church. So it's that obvious, OK, to sacrifice for her.
But then there's all there's it goes on to talk about helping to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing of the water, presenting her as a radiant church without staying a wrinkle. Like when I first saw those words, I've never connected with them. Like I've just run by that. Yeah.
But when you but when I really I started to study it the other day and was really cool. It's exactly that. It's about supporting. It's it's encouraging husbands is Christ presented the church, his bride, holy and blameless without staying all of that. What he was saying is that that he is investing in her to help her become the best self like who God created her, like lifting her up so that she can ultimately be unleashed, because that's what Christ ultimately did with the church. The Great Commission, you know, go out and make disciples. And that's what I love about that thought of of supporting Aaron is going.
I think, Jim, it's it's at the end of our life as a husband, it's almost we have to be able to ask ourselves, was Jean, was Aaron better off because they married us? Oh, that's a tough right. I mean, that's a tough question.
How am I supporting her to help her become that the best who God created her to be so that God can unleash her versus, you know, doing things, saying things that keep her so buried under all this negativity? What's good about that? It gives you a compass.
Yeah, I think especially for guys, it's not aimless that you know what you're trying to go for at the end of your life. You want to be able to answer that. I just never saw that. Those words didn't make sense right there.
That's what it's saying. Yeah. OK, well, it's only fair that I get to ask you about how you and Greg learned to deal with unmet expectations in your marriage.
We all have them, but we don't necessarily tell our spouse. So how have you guys worked through your different expectations? We've had lots of them. Right. We all come into marriage based on what we experienced growing up from our family of origin with those expectations. It's going to go like that. But often we don't talk about it. We don't communicate about it.
So then they're unrealistic expectations. I even think about I don't think you thought of this, but mowing the lawn. So I expected because my dad mowed the lawn, I thought Greg would mow the lawn. And it was this battle that I would I would end up doing it because he's like, I don't care about the lawn. So I would mow the lawn, but I would be so upset, like just pushing the mower. And finally, we hired someone to mow the lawn. And that was that was our win win. Well, that's good. Yeah, I don't whatever the bad allergies. So just mowing the lawn, I just suffer after doing that.
There's all those. I remember one time Aaron was out with some girlfriends in and so I was with the kids. And it was just one of those times nothing went right. And I finally get him down in. I'm at the kitchen table doing some work and Aaron walks in and she walks right by our kitchen sink and I can see her. And I noticed that she looks at the sink. I'm like, ah, because had she looked at the other direction, she would have seen all the laundry that I folded. But she notices the dishes I forgot to do. And so she yells out, what am I the maid?
And just starts doing the dishes. And it's so offended me that I'm sitting. I was working. And so I'm I just remember thinking I the nerve like you. You've been out partying with like what I would not even say hello. Like had you asked me, you know, hello, how's your night? I would have said how horrible your children are and what they did. And it was the expectation that I had that when she comes back, especially if if a fun night with the gals, that she'll greet me first, not like notice what didn't get done in. Now, thankfully, I didn't say anything in your home down. I even said later on, hey, did you mean like the homemade thing towards me? She's like, no, I knew that you had some work to do. I told our kids you've got to do the dishes. They didn't. I was frustrated with them. Thank the Lord, because I would have probably said some snarky thing.
We would have been in some big fight. And so it is just being aware of what what are those expectations and then letting her know. You know, for me, the expectation is when you come home that we greet each other first, not just jump into businessy kind of stuff. And then she gets to decide, is that realistic or not? Yeah. And we can navigate through that and figure out something that feels good to both of us. But it's most of us don't even know it's those expectations that are unspoken, that drive even a lot of our conflict can happen from that. So so next time when you walk into the office gym, I expect you to at least hug me before you yell at me for something that I didn't do right.
I'm going to be all over. Yeah. Well, I, I love that you guys are so honest within the book and tell a lot of your stories. So I know that you guys approach life very differently in the book. You've given a good example of of how this has showed up many times. Yeah.
Within your marriage. Yeah. What happened? One thing, Kenny Chapman, who's on the cover with us. You know, Kenny does a great job. He writes the scripts for our 90 second commentary. So a lot of these things came from that 90 second commentary that Kenny has heard my stories and we've talked about many things. I think we've done over a thousand of those commentaries. So Kenny really gets the credit for compiling these things. And he does such a good job.
I want to make sure he gets that recognition. Thank you. But one of the stories that I talked about is kind of, you know, it's one of the more challenging stories. We've had fun talking about the lighthearted stuff. But Jean and her family had a tragedy. Their brother passed away many years ago.
But I can remember, you know, my thing has always been as an orphan kid. Let's go. We've got to go.
We've got to pick up ourselves and go. We can't sit here. And I would say upon reflection of that, you know, partly due to my uncomfortableness with that, I don't like to sit there. I mean, it doesn't make sense to me to be like, is it just the emotions or dwelling? I think it's my emotional challenge, to be honest with you, to why sit there and think about something terrible? I'm not a good mourner, if I could say it that way.
I want to go. And that probably is not healthy. I get it. But it's just the mechanism that I developed as a child, losing my mom, losing my dad. And so the story goes. And I remember after a few weeks, I'm even thinking of the timing of this.
How do I because she was in a not a good place, you know, she was just mourning the loss of her brother. And at some point I was like, OK, I remember being in the kitchen. I know exactly where we were standing. And I said, you know, we we've got to pick up now. We've got to get moving.
It's time to go. And, you know, I think it was weeks, not months, certainly not years. I mean, so the timing may have been way too early for me to be talking about this.
But I did raise that question. And probably the most the scariest thing. I ever heard from Jane in our marriage was the words that she spoke back to me, which is, you know what, Jim?
Not everybody's wired like you. I can't do that. I've got to sit here and mourn this for a while. And the scary part was I don't know that I can do that. Not that I was thinking of leaving.
It wasn't that kind of thing. But I don't I'm not equipped to sit here with you. I've got to go. Yeah. And I had to really think about how to how to do that. So it was a it was great learning, but it was also, you know, a pretty good failure on making sure I was everything she needed. So I don't know if you want to fill in any gaps, but, you know, in the end, it ended up really growing us. And that was I had that was my first brother who took his life and it was devastating for me.
Yeah, of course. But because of all of this, I got into Christian therapy and started going. And that really helped me with not only mourn, but understand myself better. And then she wanted the therapist, wanted Jim to come in and join. So we ended up doing the really marriage counseling and she helped walk us through that. And that was so helpful just for me individually, for Jim individually, for us as a couple. That's what's so powerful.
I think there was a similar epiphany within our marriage, as well as that when Aaron would get emotional, I would always tell her, hey, you know what? You got to calm down here. You need to relax. Oh, yes. Right. Those are the words not to ever say in.
And as that would lead into other discussions, very spirited discussions. But what I started realizing was the same thing you talked about. I was wanting her to relax and calm down because I was uncomfortable with the emotions. I didn't know what to do, where to go or with hers.
And it was the same thing. I had to then learn what is what is just compassion look like? Like, how can I show up and not feel like I need to solve how you felt? And so often we think we need to know these things or we come into marriage knowing these things versus we can learn and grow.
Continuously. And, you know, how to manage conflict. Well, how to communicate well, how to sit in someone's pain with them.
We can learn how to do that and grow. Well, some tender moments in the studio and, of course, a lot of laughter. Any time you have Greg and Aaron Smalley in the studio and Jim and Jean Daly, the four of them talking about marriage and about how to keep your marriage strong. And this is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
I'm John Fuller. Today we've been listening to a conversation reviewing some of the content and a book Jim has compiled. It's called The Healthy Marriage Devotional. 365 daily inspirations to bring you closer together. And I hope you're interested in getting a copy of this devotional. It's a really excellent resource. We have it here at the ministry. Just call 800 the letter A and the word family for details.
Or you can check the show notes for the details. And really the rationale for doing this is for us as a team here at Focus on the Family to do everything we can do, including compiling this devotional for married couples to do together. Jean and I are about halfway through this, even though we compiled it.
You know, it was good for us to do it. So we're reading every morning as we have a cup of coffee together. We'll do one or two of these devotionals.
They're very pithy and they get great points across and kind of open up conversation between you and your spouse. And one of our guiding principles is around marriage, the sacredness of that covenant that was designed by God. And for us to model his love to each other and to build stronger and healthier marriages and therefore communities as we build up the family. That is the goal. And now for the last several weeks we've been talking about giving families hope, especially here at the end of the year when life can get busy and stressful.
And, you know, this is the highest time for depression and even anxiety and just all those things. And we want to make sure that we are doing what we can do to help you in that regard. It's why we're inviting you to be part of the solution, partnering with us here at Focus on the Family to strengthen and support families and give these couples that are struggling the practical tools they need to keep their marriages strong and healthy. Yeah, make that investment today, contribute to the work, the ministry of Focus on the Family, and we'll say thank you by sending a copy of Jim's devotional book, which could be a great Christmas gift for your spouse or another couple you know. Donate and request that book when you call 800, the letter A in the word family, 800-232-6459. Or we can contribute and get Jim's book at focusonthefamily.com slash broadcast. And on behalf of the team, thank you for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we continue this conversation about growing closer in marriage and help you and your family thrive in Christ. You want your teenager to become a successful adult, right?
But how do you do that? Well, Dr. Ken Wilgus has worked with teenagers and their families for decades. His new book, Feeding the Mouth that Bites You, will help you with your adult in training. He'll explain age-appropriate freedoms for your teenager, the best ways to communicate, effective discipline, and most importantly, help them become a functional adult. Get Feeding the Mouth that Bites You at focusonthefamily.com slash store.
