Blending Two Lives Into One Flesh

Everybody around us this summer, I say everybody, but our eyes were open to it in the last year that there's a lot of folks in their 30s that are our age that we're seeing their marriages fall apart and it scared us. After 11 years, Brett's marriage had grown stale. He wanted something better for he and his wife. That's when they found our podcast online and began listening almost every day. Focus on the families helped our marriage from the standpoint of opening our hearts to see things from the other's perspective and to make sure that God is centered in our marriage.

I'm Jim Daly. Thanks to the generosity of friends like you, Brett's marriage is getting better. Working together, we can give families hope. To join our marriage building team, please call 800 the letter A in the word family, or you can donate at focusonthefamily.com slash gift.

And when you do, your gift will be doubled. I suppose the most surprising thing about marriage for me was that it really did bug me that the toothpaste cap always came off. The thing that surprised me the most about being married is that my husband stopped being a communicator once he had me. I had no idea that there was a proper way to roll the toilet paper, that it goes a certain way.

See, I thought it was just any way, but I found out quickly, no, it has to roll over the top. What surprised me the most about marriage, and it hasn't been that long, I got married in January, is that we didn't know each other quite as well as we thought we did. You really, really get to know someone when you live with them. You pick up on little quirks and everyone has them, and you learn a lot about each other in a short amount of time.

Well, how about you? I wonder if there were unexpected discoveries about your spouse after the wedding, and how well did you navigate your different quirks of personality and behavior? We're going to cover that today on Focus on the Family, those inevitable differences and surprises that husbands and wives find in each other, and especially in those early years of marriage.

Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller, and your host is Focus President and author Jim Daly. I can remember, John, going into premarital counseling with Jean, and I guess the best way to describe it, a bit of blinders, because we thought we were so much alike, and we did.

We had a great foundation of faith and commitment to the Lord. That was common. I think we had other commonalities, but, boy, then you get married and you do what the folks were saying in that lead-in. That lead-in is so true, not to mention the way to keep a garage clean is kind of my pet peeve.

It's not the throw all the boxes out there and find your way to your car kind of approach. And I'm sure Jean would say, yeah, tell me about these laundry piles that you keep, because I keep, like, once used clothes, that's a certain pile, and I'm going to use them again. We'll remember to wash that.

And then there's the super dirty, you've got to get those into the wash. So, I mean, she's like, I don't understand your system. And so this is part of what we're going to talk about today, and I think most people can relate to that, and our guests today are really going to hit it.

And here's what I think. God put our differences into marriage on purpose, and we talk about that with some people that really think every day about it, like Gary Thomas and Gary Chapman and others who really have studied marriage. And I think the best line is that we're not alike so that we can become selfless in our marriage and become more like Christ in that process. And when we can focus on that, I think it puts the arguments down somewhat.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with you. And Joey and Carrie Stagberg are our guests, and they're going to shine some light on this. Carrie's been on the program before with her dad, Dr. John Trent, and she writes and speaks and coaches people toward healthier connections at home.

Joey's a first-time guest and works as a video producer at Life Center Church in Washington State. And we're going to explore a book that Carrie has written called The Merge for Marriage, Turning Frustration and Disunity into Closeness and Commitment. And you can learn more at our website.

We've got the details in the program notes. Carrie and Joey, welcome. Thank you. We're excited to be here. Thanks for having us. Yeah, it's good to have you.

And let's get started. I understand you both experienced a crisis early in your marriage. It had something to do with the kitchen sink. Well, that's good. I thought it was going to say kitchen knife.

Oh, that was good. It was the kitchen sink. But what in the world happened with your sink? Yeah, you know, we had been married all about three weeks. So we were in that really fun, newlywed, fresh back from the honeymoon phase. Life is really good.

And I remember coming home and couldn't find Joey. So I called out and all of a sudden this head pops around the corner and I'm blinded by this light. And I realize, OK, wait a second. My husband's wearing a headlamp. And so I'm like, well, what do you what are you doing? And he's like cleaning like it was the most normal thing in the world. And so in my mind, I'm like, all right.

Did a dog get sick? Is there like crime scene at like where are we on the like? We need a headlamp for this. And that's pretty interesting.

Let's just stop and camp on this. Joey, Joey, what are you thinking? The headlamp on the sink. Well, it was it was it wasn't the sink on top. It was underneath. Right. So why are you it was a little dark. That's an even bigger question. Did you take out a toothbrush?

There may have been a toothbrush and there may have been some other brush. OK, good. So what were you communicating, Carrie?

How did it make you feel to know that? Oh, my, this guy. That was that was the moment when I realized I had no idea who I had married because I mean, we had like just clean the house. So to me, I was like, it looks pretty clean and also under the sink.

Like, who does that? You just pretend it's not there. Right. And but really, for me, I started to panic because I was like, is Joey going to now have these expectations of me?

Because that's not how I operate. Yeah, no, that's good. And that boy, that can be the first big conflict.

Yep. Off the honeymoon, like you said. So what is that merge moment that you talk about in the. I think really what it is is it's it's a moment like that. And whether, you know, for me, it was that single moment where it was, oh, my gosh, he's living in my house.

He's not going anywhere. And we're going to have to figure out how what clean means for us or whether it's like Joey, where it's a series of moments. That merges those moments where you realize, oh, my gosh, we are really different. And it's good you recognize that. Yep. But we have a choice now.

We can either choose to blend these differences and get closer together and have more intimacy in our marriage or these can drive us apart. I would think in most cases you get stuck maybe for a few weeks, few months and for some a few years in this division. And you don't really talk about it.

It's just painful, but it's quiet and you just go about doing what you have to do. What was your aha moment, Joey, knowing that Carrie needed some encouragement through this struggle? Yeah, well, I mean, Carrie would we tend to talk about these things from from time to time. They'd come up and carried film a certain way and she would tend to, you know, backtrack a little bit or mildly overreact, mildly overreact.

I like that. Yeah, I mean, that was but mildly overreact. And, you know, she almost almost to a certain degree of she thought that, you know, I was leaving or that we were going to end or there was we were on the way out. Or this could push you out the door. Exactly. But just to just remind her, you know, Care Bear, I'm not going anywhere.

Care Bear. These these are issues that are going to arise, but it's not pushing me away. Your reactions aren't going to like drive me somewhere and drive me out. You know, I'm I'm here. I'm with you. Yeah. How did that make you feel? Well, I mean, that was what I needed.

And I didn't even know I needed that. And I think so often we see this where there's the issue. Right. And we get so caught up in managing issues, but there's often something deeper behind those issues and reactions. And, you know, like, for example, you know, it's always the dishwasher for us.

I swear that's like the catalyst. If someone could figure out like a self loading and unloading dishwasher, it would probably have a lot of marriages. But we you know, he would say something super benign like, can you did you unload the dishwasher?

And what I was hearing was not did you unload the dishwasher? But you have failed. And because of that failure, I don't want to I'm not going to want anything to do with you. And so when Joey paused and kind of looked at me and said, Carrie, I'm not going anywhere.

These are just issues. It gave me permission to not have to respond that way because our relationship wasn't on the line. It really was the dishwasher, not our relationship that we were talking. Let me ask you this, because Jean's similar in that, you know, I will ask a question not knowing what trigger I've hit. Yeah, I'm going, oh, my goodness.

What did what did I say? And I'm not even seeing it as a bad thing. Yeah, something like that. Oh, did you get the dishwasher unloaded? Yeah. And she hears something totally different. Wow. Yeah, I didn't expect that. But help us husbands understand that connection. Yeah, we're not intending to fuel a fire against us. Absolutely. We're just asking a question for clarification. Absolutely. So how do we have to start that? And we're very lazy with our words. So if you really want to hear us now, I'm about to ask this question.

It doesn't mean anything about your self-worth, your ability, your strength of character. But did you unload the dishwasher? Yeah. And we may still get a smack. Absolutely.

No. And verbally. Yeah, exactly. And I think so often we see that because there are those deeper needs behind what's going on. It's in we all have those things, right? We all have insecurities. We all have issues from our past. And I know for me and my first marriage, if I did something wrong, there were physical consequences and emotional consequences for that. And so I had a lot of fear around doing it wrong. And ultimately, I had a lot of fear that if I did something badly enough, Joey was just going to pull away completely emotionally or relationally. And so I think the first step and we call this the merge NATO because you could be talking about the dishwasher. You could be talking about parenting.

You could be talking about anything. And all of a sudden you seem like you're in that same spinning cycle. Right.

And and you have to first identify why. And for me, it was that I'm afraid there's a fear there that Joey is going to look at that and say, I'm done. And so when he realized that and was able to address that fear before the issue, I didn't respond that way. Yeah.

And I think one thing to the caveat, Jean, this is for you. You know, sometimes us husbands can say it with the little hook. Yeah. You know, we don't even hear it. You know, we are thrown a zinger. Yeah. But we thought we just said, oh, gee, is the dishwasher loaded? Yeah.

That's what we hear. But what we really said was, did you get that done? Yeah.

Why isn't it done yet? Exactly. So that's that's all fair. Carrie, you also encourage husbands and wives to ask three important questions of each other. What are those three questions?

Yeah. You know, it's do you value me? And I and really these are based on attachment.

And Dr. Sue Johnson and Kenny Sandefur, they're two phenomenal authors. And Sue Johnson really has led so many studies on attachment in relationships. And it's these three questions that really help solidify that for couples. And it's when you can look at each other and say, do you value me? Am I enough? And are you going to be there when things are hard? And if you can answer yes to those three questions, you have solid attachment in your relationship. OK. Now, that does for the person going, OK, two out of the three or not a yes to or none.

So what what is that an indicator to do? Well, and I think we have to start there by saying, OK, where are we with answering these questions and how can we take some time to address that? And sometimes it really is as simple as making eye contact and looking at your spouse and saying those three things. I you are enough for me. You know, you're valuable. I'm going to be there when things get tough.

I'm not going anywhere. It's answering that and looking them in the eye and saying it and maybe not just once, but continuing to do that. And I know I think the interesting thing is, is that happens so often in our relationship. Maybe it's one person doing it in a season and then another in a different season where together you can both do it. Like I know when Joey and I were trying to have kids, he was the one that would look at me and say that because I needed it.

I was struggling. And now in this season, when Joey's injured and is going through all the stuff as a result of a big accident that we were in, I'm the one looking at him and saying that. And so sometimes, you know, we need to do it together. And sometimes you need the others. You need to step up and say, I don't care where you're at. This is how I feel about you.

That is so good. I'll say them again. Are you really there for me? Do you value me? Can I depend on you? Yeah. Joey, you and Carrie, of course, have different approaches when you're trying to solve problems. That's called being married. But you came up with something called the 24 hour rule.

How does that help? Well, I mean, for me as a processor, define a process. Well, someone that is not going to have an answer for. Well, I wouldn't have an answer for Carrie. You know, she didn't want to talk about an issue right from the get go. And I had to figure out how I felt.

She's ready to solve it. Yeah, exactly. And so the tendency I had was that, you know, 24 hours would pass and we still wouldn't or I still wouldn't talk to her about the issue. And so that became a point, a merge point, essentially, because we would never resolve an issue. And so the 24 hour rule kind of came about because we had 24 hours, put a deadline on it, and then we needed to revisit it. You know, and maybe obviously, you know, 24 hours is is the goal. But, you know, it would be the next day, essentially. But we'd revisit that issue again.

And I'd be able to tell her how I felt about it or or whatever reactions I had to it. And so let me ask you this practical question about resolution, because, you know, when you do that, that implies that the next day at some point, probably at eight o'clock at night, that would be a follow. It's the way till the end of the day to bring that conflict back up. But what happens when it's unresolved? I mean, you apply the 24 hour rule, then you come back together.

Now we need a 48 hour application. So unresolved conflict. What do you do with that? Well, I think the first thing really is going back to those three questions and saying, hey, we might not have an answer to this today, but that does not change how I feel about you. It doesn't change how I see you.

It doesn't change my commitment to you. We are going to keep working on it. We'll keep working on it. And I also think that's where Joey and I kind of at that point, if we're really stuck, it's who can we get involved? You know, do we need to phone a friend? Do we need to go to the counselor? Who do we need to get involved so that we can come to a resolution on this if we're really stuck? I just coined a new word.

Resolation, its relationship with resolution. To go back to my earlier thought, what I told Carrie was like, I'm not going anywhere, you know, from earlier. I'm committed to you. And even so, when things are unresolved, it's still the same as far as my commitment to her and how I see her in our relationship, too. Even though things, and a lot of times they aren't resolved because of me, right?

Let's be honest. Well, you just process things differently. Exactly. But that's a lot of marriages.

One process is one way, one process is another. And to be fair, we make far better decisions when Joey has time to process. But a lot of times, too, I know that bothers Carrie that things don't get resolved for the most part.

And that makes her feel a certain way. And what we talked about. So once again, though, it's like it doesn't matter, even though it's not resolved, I'm still committed to you.

The attachment is still there. And that has helped me relax quite a bit because that same fear of, well, okay, are we just going to fall apart or we're never going to find an answer to this problem. That helps me go, okay, we're going to get there. So true. Carrie and I look at something as fast processes and go, red car good. Buy red car.

Who cares about auto facts or doesn't have an accident history? It's pretty. Well, this is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and our guests today are Joey and Carrie Stagberg. And we're talking about the concepts in Carrie's book, The Merge for Marriage, which is all about coming together. And as you've heard, we can laugh about some of these things. Some of these differences need to be laughed about. And we want to encourage you to get a copy of this book as follow up to the discussion today.

Check the program description. We've got the link right there for you. You know, Carrie, John Gottman is a well-known researcher. He came out and said we're talking about resolving conflict. You know, the merge NATO. And but he said only about 31 percent of conflict gets resolved in marriage. That's like a third. What about the two third of unresolved conflict? That kind of shocked me.

We were talking about that last night, actually, because, you know, Joey was pretty blown away by that, too. And the reality is, is it's those differences because we do not see life the same way and you and your spouse do not see life the same way. And so there are going to be those perpetual things that continue to come up because we're looking at things from a completely different lens. You know, I mean, you're both wearing glasses. If you just switch glasses, you know, you have different prescriptions.

You're still not going to be able to see it the same way. So I think for us, really, what that comes down to, then, is saying, well, these aren't going anywhere. So how can we begin to value them? Because we can either get really frustrated or we can say, you know what?

God placed this person in my life specifically for a reason and I need to value what they're bringing to the table, even if it's completely different from how I would do it. And, you know, speaking to the couple that one of them is leaning more into the two thirds of unresolved conflict, you know, how should we feel about that then? I mean, it's a bit disappointing, but it's actually in one way also encouraging that most people live in unresolved marital conflict.

So how do we relax about it, even though it may still be irritating us? Yeah. You know, I think I think, again, it does come down to a choice. We do have to choose to value those differences. And I know Joey and I are in the middle of kind of redefining that right now because he's been in a season where, I mean, my very capable, incredibly involved husband, you know, two months ago couldn't take a shower by himself.

And because of an auto accident. And so right now I'm having to do everything. You know, he's looking at things that need to get done and he can't physically go do them. And now you have two people with two different philosophies on what clean is or how they would approach something. And he has no control in that regard.

Let me let me ask you this. These couples that learn to tolerate each other. That's different than loving each other. They're not really connected or close, but they they stay married. That may be a majority of marriages. I don't know.

I haven't read that research. But you urge couples to work through those differences to the point of valuing each other's differences and make that distinction between toleration and value. Well, I think the best example I can think of to do that is I ended up I got hired on at this company. I had been there for about three weeks and the head guy calls me into his office, which is typically never a good thing. And he sits down and looks at me and he goes, you're really smart and you're really strategic, but that's not what we hired you for. And essentially the conversation was execute.

Don't think. And I remember thinking, well, I need to start looking for another job. And that's strategic. Yeah, exactly. But I think so often and yes, that's a harsh example. But when we're not valuing what our spouse brings to the table, that's kind of what we're saying.

Hey, you have these incredible gifts and I might see them. But when I'm not actually allowing you to use them and empowering you to use them and supporting you and valuing that like we're kind of the boss, that's basically saying that's not what I hired you for. That's not what I brought you into this relationship for. And so we've got to flip that thinking to say, OK, the God with his incredible intentionality, like like that of a jeweler. You know, when you look at a ring, my my uncle Matt makes jewelry and we've got to watch him work. And he the specificity with which God has placed us in our relationships is like that with a jeweler. It is so specific and intentional. And we've got to begin to value that person sitting next to us or they're going to feel like we've told them.

That's not what I brought you into this relationship for. Yeah. So it is valuing the differences, which is so critically important. And that's a choice. And it's so hard.

Yeah, it is a choice. And it's so hard for us to do because our flesh is like, no, not today. Think poorly of the mate.

And it's so unhealthy. That's kind of what I was getting at too earlier is that I've come to value the fact that in a time like this, that we found ourselves her capacity to be able to handle multiple challenges at one time. She doesn't get caught up in the details of one because she's got 20 on her shoulders. You know what I mean? And so that's one of the strengths that she brings to this situation that we find ourselves in. Well, it sounds like deep appreciation has grown. Yeah. Yeah, that's good thing. Carrie, you trained for a half marathon with your dad, Dr. John Trent.

He's been on the show many times. The first major question is, why in the world would you do that? Well, I was interested in a boy.

Why else would we do anything? You know, I was interested in a boy and got roped into running this thing. And then it was the worst one of the worst decisions I've ever it was my only half marathon.

And actually, ironically, I ran into my old P.E. teacher at the finish line and he started laughing. He was like, there is no way you finish this.

He's like, I need photo evidence that you didn't just do the last like 50 yards. Start halfway. That's pretty funny.

It was bad. But what did you learn through that? We can't do things alone. And, you know, my dad and I did multiple training runs together.

And even that day at the marathon, I had my dad's support getting me through. But we had so many people cheering us on from the sidelines. And I think the reality is, is we are incredibly isolated today and especially in marriage.

We can't be. And I know even right now we were talking about this again the other day. We've had people that have literally stepped into our family and said, we're going to be here for you during this time.

Whether it's with food, whether it's with child care, whether it's with. Hey, do you need a shoulder to cry on or to process with? And we cannot do hard seasons alone and we can't do the good ones alone either. We've got to have people cheering us on and we have to let people into the mess. And especially right now, it was like, yeah, we actually have some friends. We had some friends back in probably June and maybe was leaving late May that was one of my good friends. I mean, his name's Josh and he's been a friend for 17 years.

And so he's one of my best friends. And and he had texted Carrie and I and say, hey, we the hams want to be involved in you guys's lives, you know, a little more. And then fast forward to July, the accident happens. And let me tell you, they weren't expecting this. The hams weren't expecting this. But man, have they jumped in to help them come alongside.

We have play dates for a two year old. I mean, they're watching our three month old for us while we're here. I mean, they they've built furniture.

They've they've done anything you could possibly imagine they have showed up for. They've built furniture. Well, Joey had to get this exercise bike so he could start moving.

And so Josh is like in a desk, you know, like all these things together. I mean, they're I don't know how we'd be doing that without merge mates. And you need people to help you make the merge. You need people to help you get through the good times and the bad. Yeah. You guys knew not to call me for that one.

I can't put anything together. There's a reason we called Josh because he's good at it. You know, it focus on the family. We often remind Christian couples that our marriages are a witness. We try to live it that way. We're not perfect in that.

Of course, you're going to have seasons of difficulty. But stress the importance of how we as Christians in our community do carry that banner, that responsibility to show people that a Christian marriage is good. Yeah. You know, I think you said it so well, it's we're not perfect. And I think we have to be willing to say that.

Yeah. Christ is perfect. We're not. And it's through him and through his strength that we're able to get through hard times that we're able to work through challenges.

And that's what makes it unique and different. And so I think as Christian couples, there's a choice to let people into that and to be real. I mean, I've gotten angry and worn out more more times than I could count in the last three months.

And I'm not I don't love how I've handled that. But I'm so thankful for a God that gives us grace and then says, OK, well, here's what you can do to get back on track with loving your family the way that you need to in this season and loving your husband the way that you need to in this season. And I think that type of openness and vulnerability is what's going to speak volumes to our unbelievers and also to believers. I think it's a good place to say thank you. Thank you for writing this. Thanks for your vulnerability to talk about it. And again, this topic, this is on the tune up side of things. You know, if your relationship is in a really bad spot, we have that opportunity through Hope Restored, our four day intensive for you to call us about that. And John will give you details.

But if you're in that other spot where, yeah, there's just some irritation, like two thirds of the time, according to John Gottman. How do I resolve some of that conflict that we're having? I love the idea of calling it a merge moment and thinking about it.

Give it a 24 hour time so you guys can come together and hopefully under the wisdom of the Spirit of God and be able to resolve those things that aren't working well. I think it's just a great way to do life, you know, and to do marriage. And then you're that witness you need to be.

And that all works well. So thank you so much for being with us. And as we always say, if you can send a gift of any amount to help us in the ministry, that's the fuel, obviously, the financial resources to make it happen. And we'll send you a copy of Carrie's book as our way saying thank you. If you can't afford it, we'll send it to you and trust other people. We'll cover the expense of that. And our phone number is 800 the letter A in the word family. That's 800-232-6459. Or you can donate to focus and get the book online.

The details are in the show notes. And if your marriage merge isn't merging, in fact, if you're worried about the future of your relationship, we have hope for you. Through Hope Restored, we provide intensive counseling over a number of days for couples who often feel like they're out of options.

Please contact us today and let us help your marriage ask about Hope Restored when you call. Coming up tomorrow, the powerful story of one family's foster care journey. And so I think that there's just a ton of grace involved. There has to be grace for ourselves and our expectations about our parenting.

And there has to be grace for these kids to recognize that no child ends up in foster care for no reason. On behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, thanks for listening to Focus on the Family. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Our biblically based counseling will help you find the root of your problems and face them together. Call us at 1-866-875-2915. We'll talk with you, pray with you and help you find out which program will work best. That's 1-866-875-2915.