The Joys and Challenges of Parenthood (Part 2 of 2)

I think guilt does come with the territory in parenting and we can feel guilty if they don't eat their broccoli, if they pinch their siblings, if they're not doing well at school. If we feel that they're not doing the things that society expects them to be doing at that particular stage or age. So often as mums, we start looking at ourselves and we think, what have I done wrong? What could I do better? And sometimes there are things that we can do better, but generally guilt isn't a good thing.

It just holds us back and weighs us down and God doesn't want us to go around with that weight of guilt. That's Catherine Hill describing some better ways that we can parent our children. And one of our goals here at Focus on the Family is to help you be the best mom or dad you can be. So lean in and listen in as we have more from Catherine, her insights and her encouragement today.

Your host is Focus President and author Jim Daly and I'm John Fuller. John, we had a very practical conversation last time with Catherine. And you know, when I'm thinking about it, there's so much great biblical truth in marriage and parenting.

I mean, the Lord has wired us. And when we as Christians can tap into that wisdom and then share it with others, it's such a beautiful thing. And that's what we're trying to do every day here at Focus on the Family. It does have nuts and bolts components to it, but it really is about the spiritual impact on your children over the long haul. These kids need to be loved. They need to feel that they're loved, regardless of how they behave. And that behavior is something you shape over time.

And I'm excited to continue the discussion with Catherine. Last time she explained that we don't need to be superhero parents. Did you ever feel like that? I had occasions to be knocked off that pedestal. Come on, give the ball to Trent. Let him run it.

The superhero. But also she addressed the guilt that many parents feel, especially moms. Just that general guilt of, I'm not doing the job right. Look, they're crying. Why would my kids be crying? And then Catherine gave us some great reminders like keeping your marriage a priority during the parenting years.

Because unfortunately, so many marriages are breaking up after the kids leave the home. And that is not a good testimony about your Christian faith. Simply put, this is solid stuff. And if you missed the conversation last time, you can tap into our website or get the smartphone download to reconnect with that episode last time.

And certainly I'm glad you're here for this episode. And Catherine Hill, as we mentioned last time, is the director for Care for the Family, which is a sister ministry, if you will, to focus on the family in the UK. Catherine and her husband Richard have four grown children and five grandchildren.

And she's written a number of books. One we're covering today is If You Forget Everything Else, Remember This, Parenting in the Primary Years. And you can get your copy when you call 800, the letter A in the word family, 800-232-6459.

Or stop by our website. The details are in the show notes. Catherine, welcome back to Focus. Thank you.

I am so grateful you did Chapel for us. And I heard two staff people saying I could listen to her forever. I love her accent. Oh, that's so kind.

Translate some of the words, I think. But it's just wonderful. I love the way you pour in to not only those in the UK, but our office in South Africa.

Care for the Family has been a great help to the International Network of Focus. So thank you for all of that labor. Let me, before we get into the parenting side, I love the story of your father. And you touched on that even at Chapel the other day. But he lived to be 100 years old. A hundred years old. And you had a, it seemed like quite a loving and unique relationship with him.

So let's just ask that question. What did you learn from your dad? Yeah, he married, he was a little bit older than my mother, married when he was a little bit older. And yeah, as you say, lived to be 100. And honestly lived life to the full until a few months just before he died. And she died on Christmas Day.

Oh my goodness. Had Christmas Day with us as a family and then died that evening. And in many ways, he was a bit of a Father Christmas. He was someone who was incredibly kind and generous.

Very gentle. I don't think, I can't remember ever having heard him raise his voice ever in all that time. And he was a great storyteller. So he loved to tell stories of how things were because he was born in 1917. So, you know, he was born during the First World War. He had obviously lived through and fought in the Second World War. And then became a doctor and just had lots and lots of wonderful stories, real people person. He was somebody who was always interested in other people. And I learned a lot of those things from him.

That's so wonderful. And yet I can see your zeal for doing what you do coming from even what you learned from your own mother and father. Yeah, I mean he had a very quiet faith, but one memory I have is walking down the corridor in our house where I grew up and looking in and just seeing him kneeling by his bed, praying. And that's always stayed with me. It was a very quiet faith, but very, very real.

What a great image though. Let's turn the corner and move into the parenting content out of your wonderful book. A theme you address in the book is communication between parents and their children. I think you had kind of a funny story about one of your sons who, I've never experienced this, has said, I'm too sick to go to school today.

All of a sudden every parent's radar goes up. Okay, now you've got to pass the test. Are you really too sick, right? So what happened in that situation? Well, yeah, he came down to breakfast and said he was much too unwell. He'd been sick, couldn't go to school. But he didn't look that ill. But he said no, he had been sick and he took me to the bathroom to show me the evidence in the loo.

And I said, okay, well, in that case, you better go to bed, don't go to school. And then I went downstairs and I was a little bit suspicious because he didn't like nuts or raisins. He would always eat some Rice Krispies or something for breakfast. And on the table in the kitchen was this open packet of muesli. Kind of oatmeal.

Oatmeal, yeah, with raisins and stuff in it. And I thought, I know what he's done. And he had chucked this oatmeal down the loo and pretended that he'd been sick and had fooled his mother. So I was mad with him. I was mad with him for doing that, but also mad that now I had him at home all day and he should have been at school. But, you know, it wasn't till the evening that I sat down with him and went a little bit behind what was going on. And what had happened is they had had swimming lessons at school and he'd been put in a group that was much too difficult. And so he was really worried about going to school and anxious about it. And so he'd done this whole thing with the oatmeal down the loo just so he didn't have to go to school. So we managed to chat about it.

And then the next day it was so easy to fix. I talked to the teacher and she put him back in the class he should have been in and all was well. But I had missed that because I didn't really look behind and hadn't made time to talk to him about what was going on. Isn't that so true in the parenting effort? You know, when the kids are exhibiting behavior that is concerning, there usually is something behind it. And if you can just slow down long enough, which really gets to the next question, which is to give your full attention when you're engaging your children, it's a bit convicting to a multitasker, whether your mom or dad.

Speak to the importance of that and the illustration that you had in the book. Well, particularly in the digital age, I think it's so easy for us to get engaged in our phones and all our children then see is the back of our phones. You know, when we pick them up from school, if the first thing we do when we come in the house is checking our emails and they can't we can't engage with them.

And they don't know if we're fixing up a play date, if we're looking up a recipe for their tea or for just scrolling through social media. So that would be one thing. But one time that this really was brought home to me, our daughter had been at a friend's house and they'd seen a film. And it was really exciting film. And it involved a princess and a castle and a horse and a dog, a whole load of other things. And she was sitting next to me at the table and wanting to tell me about this film blow by blow account minute by minute.

And it was incredibly boring. But next to me on the table was a magazine and it had the title was 10 ways to have a tidy house. And at that particular moment in our family, there was Lego all over the floor. There were wet towels.

The house was a mess. And that was much more interesting. It was so much more interesting. So I was just looking and quickly flicking at this this magazine. And she said, Mommy, you're not listening. And I said, oh, I am darling. I am listening. And she said, no, you need to listen with your eyes. Wow. And she was right.

How old was she when she was probably about six. Yeah, goodness out of the mouth of babes. Right. So and giving our children eye contact it if they're little, you know, you can cut that little face in our hands and just gives them that that message that they're valued, that they're important, that we're interested in their lives. And, you know, so much of that is awareness. We can be very unintentionally sending them a signal that we don't care. We don't see it as that because, you know, Mom and Dad, we got a lot to do. And, you know, we're hearing you. Yeah, we're hearing you. But they're feeling like they're ignoring me. And they're the things that are concerning us in the day that we've got to get a meal on the table, get the washing done. We've got to get a report in for work. They're not the things that are concerned.

They're concerned about in their world. You know, you shared something at chapel that really caught my attention. I'll just tuck it in here and ask you about it because you talked about a father whose young son was trying to get him to go outside to play, kept saying, Dad, we go outside in a minute, in a minute, comes back. Dad, can we go? Can we go outside and play?

I said, in a minute. And then, again, he came back and asked him, let's go play, Dad. And he said, can't you see I'm busy? And he was on his phone. And his son walked away and said, you're a much nicer father before that phone. Wow. That is a convicting statement.

Yeah. And this dad, even when he told us this, I mean, he said it was a real light bulb moment, turnaround moment for him. And he just realized that the message he'd been giving his child was that what was on the phone was much more important than him. You know, one of the things, Catherine, we pick up on that. I mean, I would say that we're sensitive to those things because of what we do. I mean, we're in this.

We want to see families do so much better and for marriages to hold together. Sometimes a dad or maybe even a mom, they'll miss that moment. They don't even hear what's going on. How do they slow down enough to learn that lesson and what their child's actually saying to them?

Yeah, and it is hard and life goes on and there are reports and that have to be submitted by deadlines. But I think it's being intentional. It's making those moments. So when our children were little, we decided on a Saturday morning, one of us would take one of them out for breakfast on a Saturday morning.

That's great. Yeah, the deal was that they could choose which one of us they went with. And it was the idea was to give that space and that time that was focused on them. We often didn't talk about really important things. It would be the latest hair braid or who'd won the match or whatever. But just sometimes there were those moments that are gone before we realized that they're there when they could talk about something that was bothering them.

But the thing was they could they could choose who to go with. And I had been doing this for a little while and found I hardly ever got to go. I was saying, well, what's wrong?

Am I just not a fun mum? Why do they always want to go with Richard? And so I asked the question and I discovered that when I took them for breakfast, they had the healthy option of wholemeal toast and smoothies. But when he was taking them, they were having chocolate eclairs and cheesy wotsits and Coca-Cola. Of course they wanted to go with him.

And, you know, of course, it's important to have healthy eating. But that wasn't about this. And it was creating those moments of connection.

And looking back, it's just been one or two conversations that happened on those Saturday mornings. So I would say to any mum or dad that is really struggling to find that time, just plan it, put it in the diary and think about about what your child is. Not so much what you're doing, but just it's that space where they can they can have that time with you. Catherine, I'm assuming this is true in the UK, in Canada, in the US and other places. But there seems to be in the parenting approach, there's this pendulum on the one extreme. It's kids can set their own boundaries.

You know, it helps them to become adults. And some of that, there's some truth to that. But you've got to be really wise as to what boundary they should be setting for themselves. The other end of that is and typically, again, I think Christian homes tend to have this whole list of rules and regulations. And here are the family rules.

I remember Jean and I put those up on the wall. There's like 15 of them. I said, I'm not sure if that's the way to go. You know, let's get down to just a couple that they can remember.

There are only three. But speak to that first dichotomy of this permissiveness versus overregulation and what's healthy. And then, you know, what's a good approach when it comes to the boundaries and the rules for a healthy Christian home?

Yeah. So you're so right there. The two extremes. One, I think experts call authoritarian parenting. So lots and lots of rules, as you have just described, and every single one of them enforced. And the trouble is with that style of parenting, our children can feel hemmed in. There's of course we need boundaries.

They're really important. But there's no room for creativity or independence. But then the other end of the spectrum is called permissive. And that's kind of anything goes, no rules and plenty of room for discovering themselves and independence.

But they feel unsafe. And our children need boundaries, if only to push against. So the best style of parenting is called assertive, which is it's kind of in the middle. So it's having as few rules as possible about the things that really matter that are in line with our family values and then making sure that we follow through and enforce them. And then that gives that freedom for some independence, but also the security of knowing knowing the boundaries. I think a great example of that are the three D's.

I think a friend of yours suggested this or displayed this and you observed it. But the three D's, that's kind of what we're talking about. Not 15, 20 things, but three D's.

What are the three D's? So for us, they were dishonesty. So if they told a lie, disrespect. So if they were disrespectful to another person, if they were rude to them or damage their possession or something like that. And then thirdly, disobedience. So if we ask them to do something and they had they had not done it or they deliberately done something that was they were not meant to do. And someone described it to us as being a little bit like a triangle. Those three D's and they could do anything they liked within that.

But those were the things, if they crossed the line, that there would be some consequences for. And we found that that sort of worked well for us, certainly in these early years of parenting. And, you know, it simplifies the parenting role, too. It helps you concentrate on what really is a mountain, not what is a mohill, as we say. And that's very helpful because I think in Jean, you know, Jean and I struggle with this because I leaned a little more slack and she was a little more strict.

And that's good balance, too. And then we talk about it at night when we laid our head on the pillow. And but I think hearing each other in the parenting role, too, is good.

And I think Jean would say, you know, she's kind of mellowed from the rules. And I would say I learned a lot about having boundaries for the kids and how healthy that is. So it's good to have that communication within mom and dad's dialogue. Right. Absolutely. So being unified, being on the same page as much as possible.

I think if there's a little chink of light between us, our children are pretty good at getting in between us. So just, yeah, being on the same page and I think choosing together what are the battles to fight? Because so often I think we can go after the wrong things and make a big deal of of something that's little.

And then we haven't got anything left for when the big issues do come around. There was one time when one of our children had got a new wetsuit. We'd been on holiday to Cornwall and we were going out for an evening meal with a friend. And the pizza place we were going to was just across this little bit of river.

And they got a kind of little dinghy that we all were going to pile in and go across for this piece. So everyone got ready to go out for a meal apart from Ed, who was about six, I think. And he had decided that he needed to wear this wetsuit because we were going in a boat. And I could not persuade him to get his proper clothes on for going out for the meal. And I kept everyone waiting.

And eventually I thought, does it matter? So off we went. Everyone dressed up for this nice meal and him in a wetsuit.

And I remember we got to the door of the restaurant and the waitress opened the door and she said, oh, how far have you come? And he had this meal in this wetsuit. He got really hot.

Yeah. Every time he wanted to go to the bathroom. It took ages to peel him out of this thing.

There was a long queue. But, you know, it was such a fun evening. And I'm telling you about it now. So many years later. And we'd have missed that if I'd made a big deal about what he was to wear.

That's funny. I thought you were going to say the dinghy tipped over and he was the only one that stayed warm. Now that would have been really good. He'd have had the last laugh.

He'd be talking about that story now, too. You encourage couples to be proactive about finding a community of friends that can support them through the good times and the bad times. Why is that sense of community so critically important?

It's so important. There's a lovely phrase that it takes a village to raise a child. And I think that we just need we need grandparents.

We need sports coaches. We need trusted other adults in our children's lives that that can speak to them, that they can go to when actually sometimes that that communication isn't going so well, maybe with us. And certainly being intentional and looking out for those relationships as something we can we can share together is really important. I think in the US, we've we've become very isolated. I'm not sure if that's true in the UK, but the sense of the village is something of the past. I mean, we put our garage door opener up and we drive in and we close it and we go about our business in the walls of our home. Some people don't even know their neighbors. Some people don't want to know their neighbors. But that that is a very different environment than 30, 40 years ago.

Yeah. I mean, years and years ago, when Care for the Family was first started, I would say there would have been family just down the street. So, you know, if a child was having a temper tantrum or a teenager was just having an argument or whatever had happened, a baby had a sleep. You having a sleepless night with a baby.

There would have been an aunt, a grandmother, somebody just down the end of the road that you could talk to for advice. And that's changed. I think Covid has particularly changed that. That feels very isolating. I mean, that's back to the original question. That's why you want to get out, get community if you can do that through a church. That's best, I believe, as a Christian, because it should be a good experience for you. Let's close with spiritual discipline for children. This can be a point of despair for so many parents because the late teens and the 20s is stretch your wing, be your own boss kind of time. Right.

They leave for sometimes for university or vocational training or they get into a job, they leave the home. You're seeing a very light expression on the faith side. So then you get really concerned.

Have we done a good enough job, et cetera? But you described back yesterday with Mrs. M, you know, the behavior thing when your kids were little and how well behaved her kids were and how not so well behaved your kids were in church. Fast forward that to when they're a little older and maybe you're not seeing the kind of godly values that you'd hope to, that they would have left the home as pastors and ministers. But speak to that area of that mom or dad's heart that's grieving a bit. Yeah. So it's so good.

And I've got personal experience of that. You know, our four children, we have prayed as hard. We have done the same with each one and they're on different places on their journey of faith. So I think one of the things I found really helpful is not to be so black and white that we very readily put them in this prodigal box just because just at the moment they're not going to church.

Now, of course, we can't go the whole nine yards with that. You know, Jesus died for them and we don't want to become universalists. But equally, I think if we look at the heart and we can so often see in the kids that maybe don't love going to church, but there's so much of the kingdom in them and they are showing the fruit of the spirit in their lives that actually makes glad the heart of God. But as parents, we so easily I do go on that guilt trip of if only if only we had had family devotions or we hadn't had family devotions. We used to try family devotions and it was always a cue for World War Three. With boys particularly, boys just struggle with sitting still and listening.

Why can't we do this? So we found in those early years, just praying little and often as they were going out the door to school before meals, that worked for us. But just sowing those seeds in the everyday things of family life. But I think, yes, as parents, as our children start to make those decisions for themselves, it can be incredibly painful. But I think we need to hang on to the fact that God himself has trouble with his children. He had the perfect father in the perfect environment and his children went away. He didn't want them to go. And so he understands, he understands our pain, but also the prayer that we can pray that we absolutely know that God will hear is that our children come to that living relationship with him. That's totally his heart for them. Sometimes it's that battle and I don't know about all three of us here at the table, but I'm sure the listeners and the viewers are experiencing this. If they have 20-something children, most likely, or 30-something children, the kids, the adult kids, they have got to make the faith their own.

They can't live off your umbilical cord, so to speak, the spiritual umbilical cord. And that is a process. And sometimes they have to go through valleys, they've got to experience things, they've got to hear the voice of the Lord in their heart for themselves. And all those things have to occur.

But you're in that point of desperation. With that, let me end with this, you and Richard, how do you talk to each other about it as parents? What do you say to one another to comfort each other in that way?

Yeah, that's a really good question, Jim. I think, well going back, that verse, train a child in the way they will go and when they're older they won't depart from it. And just reminding each other that that is not a cast-iron guarantee, but it is wisdom and it is how things generally work out. And I think just being able to pray together, we pray every day for our children, for other things as well, but we pray every day. And our greatest prayer is always that they come back to a living relationship with their father. And then just not allowing each other to go on the guilt trip and thinking that somehow we're in control of our children's relationship with God. As parents, we so often, in all the things we've been talking about on this podcast, we want to be in control. But actually we can do our best and we can sow those seeds, but actually ultimately it's their decision. And I think reminding each other of that and not allowing each other to sort of spiral downwards, that would be a good one. And again, in your case, what's real about that is two of the kids are doing well in their faith journey.

The other two are kind of bumping along. And that's good too. And never underestimate the power of the sibling conversation, right? Because there's something going on there too that's out of mom and dad's control. So it's beautiful. And you know, we hope and we keep hoping. And it's a tough culture to live in and to be spirit-filled and to follow Christ.

It's going to cost you to do that. So we'll continue to pray for our kids as you will pray for yours. And I'm sure that's true for you and Dina, John. Catherine, thank you so much again for being with us. This is good.

Very, I just love it. It's just so refreshing to hear these, you know, straightforward truths about what we need to be mindful of. The three D's, Mrs. M, the wonderful hundred-year-old father. You've touched on so many good things here. And I hope you have heard Catherine's heart and she's done a wonderful job writing in this book those things that you need to remember. It's called If You Forget Everything Else, remember this, Parenting in the Primary Years.

Just as a little side note, I remember talking to Chuck Colson and he said your child's moral fabric is going to be formed by the age of 10. Think of that. The foundations are there. You've done the job. And if you're with three, four, five-year-olds right now, be mindful of that. That's already taking shape.

And then the rest is just the bumper guards, right? It's just the boundaries that they're going to be going through as teenagers. And again, I think Catherine has reminded us of that. If you would like help in your parenting journey, or if you're a grandparent that would like to help your adult children in their parenting journey, get ahold of us.

Get a copy of Catherine's book. If you can make a gift of any amount, we'll send it as our way of saying thank you. If you can do that monthly, it really helps the ministry here reach more families for Christ. Donate as you can when you get in touch. And our number is 800, the letter A in the word family.

800-232-6459. And we've got further details about Catherine's book. If you forget everything else, remember this, parenting in the primary years. Stop by the show notes to find out more. Catherine, great to have you here. Safe travels back to the UK. Thanks for spending time with us. Thanks so much. You've been an incredibly generous host.

It's been wonderful. Thank you. Well, we're so glad to have had you with us listening in today for Focus on the Family and plan to join us tomorrow. A powerful message about the influence God wants you to have on the world. But if we'll shift our prayers from God, what do you want to do through me today to God, what are you wanting to do in me today? I've just learned that that prayer in you leads to the through you. On behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ. Did you know nearly 60 percent of American adults don't have a will in place?

That's a big number. And not having a will can leave a heavy burden for family left behind. If you need a will but don't know where to begin, let Focus on the Family help. Download our resource 15 Questions to Ask When Preparing a Will. It's our gift to you at FocusOnTheFamily.com slash Prepare My Will. That's FocusOnTheFamily.com slash Prepare My Will.