Leaving Homosexuality and Finding Forgiveness

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That's focusonthefamily.com slash careers. I did not fit the mold of what they said a girl was. And so because I did not fit the mold of what a girl was, naturally I'm going to think that I must be something other than that. And so there's this confusion that I have that was brought about by people teaching me womanhood that did not come from the creator of women but from culture. Jackie Hill Perry is our guest today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, returning with a pre-recorded message that, as you might have guessed, is not going to be appropriate for younger listeners.

So please take that under advisement. Thanks for joining us today. I'm John Fuller.

That's right, John. Our interview with Jackie was one of our most popular shows of 2020, so I know our listeners will enjoy this presentation as well. And today is April 8th, a day that activist groups have labeled a day of silence for students who identify with the LGBT community. They say their goal is to protect against the harassment and discrimination of LGBT people in schools. But here at Focus on the Family, we believe in dialogue, not silence.

And of course, we don't want students struggling with these issues to be harassed, but we do want to reach out to them with hope and healing to dialogue with them. That's why we're sharing this testimony from Jackie. Growing up, she identified as lesbian and was involved in relationships with other girls. Now she's a believer, a wife, a mother, and she spreads the gospel message to those who struggle with sexual brokenness. She's even written a book about her story.

It's called Gay Girl, Good God, and we highly recommend it. It is a terrific resource, and you can get a copy from us here at the ministry. Our number is 800, the letter A in the word family, or stop by the show notes for all the details. Well, here's Jackie Hill Perry now speaking at a brave conference for women hosted by Hope Fellowship Church in Frisco, Texas, on Focus on the Family. Tonight, I want to talk about my story. And in talking about my story, I kind of want to give you the encouragement to share your own. I think when it comes to courage, when it comes to bravery, when it comes to fear, I think there's a lot of fear in being honest about where God has brought us from. I think sometimes we could be comfortable with people seeing where we are now, not recognizing that there would be so much more fruitfulness if they understood how we got there.

And so I want to tell my story for that reason, but in all of our stories, I think it's necessary to recognize that our stories start with a story. That is the story in Genesis 1 through 3. In Genesis 1, God creates the heavens and the earth. In Genesis 2, He creates Adam and Eve. In Genesis 3, we have this situation that has affected everything. You have Eve talking to the serpent, not realizing that it's the serpent. She should have already known something was odd when the snake wanted to have a conversation about the tree. Have you even noticed he didn't even say hello?

He just started going to questions. You already rude. You ain't righteous.

That was a sign. Angels ain't rude, all right? Start to interact with her about this tree, this tree that God told them that the day they eat of it, they shall surely die. She chose to believe another voice, another person, and in believing the evil one, she ate from the tree, gave something to her husband who was with her, don't know what he was doing, maybe cutting the grass, I don't know how that worked in paradise.

He ate, him being the patriarch of all of humankind, what happened was sin entered into the human condition where all that will follow after them will have the same story, where we are all born into this world prone to believing someone other than God. So when I come into this world, I come in with a problem. I come in it with a heart that isn't bent towards God naturally. When I was born, born to a single mother, my mother loved me well, my daddy loved me sometimes. He loved me when he felt like it.

He loved me when he went down to the altar and got halfway saved and would be present and then would leave again. And so I grew up having this view of men that told me that men were very inconsistent beings, that they said things that they did not truly believe. The first man to ever actually show me affection was through abuse. So I already have this messed up framework that now affection from men is a dangerous thing, something that's not safe, something that isn't built on love.

But I also have this framework that women are a loving thing, that women are the present ones, the loyal ones, the loving ones. So in maybe first grade, don't remember, I know it was before I knew how to spell my name, I recognized that I was same-sex attracted. Didn't have those words for it because again I'm five. But I knew, I noticed that the same way in which other girls like the little boys on the field was the same way that I like the little girls on the field, didn't know what to do with it until I went to church. When I went to church is when I found out what the name for this passion was, which was homosexuality. And my problem wasn't with the condemnation pronounced on this behavior. My problem was with the way it was said. It was the tone, the inflection, the facial expressions, the mob mentality of the parishioners when it was talked about as if this wasn't something that anybody should be free with discussing openly.

So what happened was naturally, I'm gonna keep this to myself because clearly Christians aren't fans of people like me. Growing up it was a present desire, a desire that I wanted to go away, a desire that I wanted to flee, a desire that I wanted to somehow leave because I assumed that life would be easier if I had heterosexual lust instead of homosexual lust, but that's neither here nor there. But growing up I figured that this would be more, it would be easier for me to do, but I was afraid of what the doing would bring me. I was afraid of how God might think of me and how my family might reckon with me until high school. Usually you either act out in high school or college. I chose high school. I decided, you know. Ain't no sense in waiting to be wicked out loud. So I felt, you know, that it was just becoming hard to act straight. It just was becoming a difficult thing and so I said, you know what, I'm gonna just try it, see what was like. This is the thing that I've been wanting to do for a long time and so I got on Myspace.

Don't know if y'all remember that. It's a social media network that, it was before Twitter. I got on Myspace and connected with a woman who I was in a relationship with for about two and a half years and that relationship is when I transitioned into a stud. So in the white lesbian community, in the black lesbian community, the language is different because culture is different, right? And so a stud in the black lesbian community is a woman who presents or projects the kind of hyper masculinity about herself and so I sagged my pants, I wore boxers, I wore sports bras, there were small like tighter to flatten on my chest. At that time I didn't have locks, I had straight hair so I would put my hair in a ponytail. I would walk as masculine as I thought myself to be. I would sit masculine.

My voice is already a little heavy but I made it heavier and so that's what I did. I think this confusion honestly was brought into place through people telling me what a woman was that wasn't actually what a woman was. What I mean by that is, when you are a girl growing up who doesn't like pink, do I have one pink today?

No I don't. Who doesn't like pink, a girl who doesn't like purses, even now I don't like purses, half of y'all got purses in here with only a charger and some chapstick. It's just extra baggage you know, pun intended. I did not fit the mold of what they said a girl was and so because I did not fit the mold of what a girl was, naturally I'm going to think that I must be something other than that. Naturally if I don't fit this front, this box that you said that my frame is supposed to fit inside of, then there must be another box that was meant to me to be in which was maleness, which was masculinity. It's the same idea that we give to little boys when we tell them that they're acting like a girl because they're emotional as if emotions aren't a human trait and not a gender specific trait, right?

And so there's this confusion that I have that was brought about by people teaching me womanhood that did not come from the creator of women but from culture. And so naturally I'm going to try to start embodying a sense of masculinity because that's what y'all told me I was this entire time. In that space I enjoyed myself. All sinners love sin. If you don't, I don't know what kind of sin you're doing. I enjoyed myself. You a born sinner if you don't like sin.

But, outside of Christ, but y'all get me off track now. I enjoyed my sin. I enjoyed the affection of women. I enjoyed the freedom of sin or so I thought it was. I enjoyed the sense of rebellion that I had towards my mother and people.

I enjoyed that. But even in my enjoyment of submitting to the flesh, I discovered that I could not find peace anywhere in it. It was a difference between joy and peace. And I think God was being kind to me and that he would not allow me to be able to shake the disruption that was between us. Is that he made it very clear in my conscience that we were not at peace with each other. That we were at odds.

But I didn't know what to do with that. Because I figured that if he wanted me to be a Christian, then that meant he wanted me to be like my auntie. Let me explain my auntie. My auntie is one of those Christians I have never seen her wear a pair of pants in my life.

I haven't even seen her knees. That's how spiritual she is. So I felt if that's what you want me to be, I can't be that kind of saved. That's saved, saved. And that ain't me. Even this, she think it's wickedness. You hear me?

I am immodest all in my leg. Now I say that because I think one thing that kept me an unbelief is that nobody explained conversion to me. They told me get saved, repent, get right with God, go to church. And so what I thought Christianity was were people who did a lot of good stuff. That Christians were people who were really good at saying no to things that felt good. Didn't recognize that Christians were people who God had snatched up and given them a new heart and a new spirit where they were able to say no on the virtue of somebody else's power. I didn't recognize that what was happening inside of them was not old to them at all but because they believed in a God who was risen from the dead so they were rising from the dead daily.

I didn't know that. And so when I was 19 I was in my room. I didn't go to church because I didn't like Christians. Christians is extra and so they are y'all are extra. You know those Christians I had this one cousin she was the one person that I could call that wouldn't talk to me about Leviticus every time we got on the phone. Some of y'all in here you know you don't know how to ask nobody about their day.

You want to go straight to Romans. You know you're gonna die right. I ain't like y'all. My cousin I felt felt that God was drawing me. I felt this sense of him wanting me wanting my life. Didn't want him though and so I called my cousin Keisha who was the only cousin or the only Christian I knew that would have an actual conversation with me as an image bearer and not just me as a gay person.

That's the word. So got on the phone and I was like Keisha I feel like God is calling me but I don't want him. I'm just cool. I'm enjoying my life.

I'm enjoying myself. I don't want nothing to do with Jesus and she told me she said God loves you so much that he's gonna show you how much you need him. That was sounded real spiritual to me. I know what the heck she was talking about so I said hey man got off the phone.

Cool. Whatever you say and what started to happen was my life started to get harder. My life started to get difficult and I think that's a kindness again that's a providential mercy of God that he is not allowing my life to be so prosperous that I'm not he's he's allowing my life to be difficult in such a way where I'm constantly looking up. There's something about prosperity or being in the palace that makes you look inside of yourself but there's something about suffering and difficulty even outside of Christ that shows you that all that you have ain't satisfied. That it's not enough that these people these relationships this pornography this lust all of this stuff that you're turning to as a comfort is nothing more than a mere idol and idols can't make nobody happy. So coming back to when I was 19 I'm in my room I'm watching MTV some real I wouldn't watch a CBN listen no Beth Moore podcast none of that.

They ain't even had podcasts that was just they just listed a radio. I'm in my room and I feel God speak to my heart and I want to caveat on this is that our stories need to land on him always always I've heard a lot of testimonies that sound like you overcame your sin you somehow chose him you somehow did it instead of recognizing that we are saved by grace through faith grace was first and so God interrupted my room and all of a sudden I had this awareness that my sin deserved death it's weird stuff God spoke to my heart showed me that the sin that I so loved and so enjoyed deserved death but the interesting thing is that it wasn't just sexuality that was my problem I started to reckon with the fact that every single thing that I loved and enjoyed deserved death too so I started to make like a survey in my mind of everything that I loved in its consequences and all of this is being motivated by grace all of this is being motivated by the Holy Spirit who is second Corinthians 4 he is lifting the veil off for my eyes for me to see light for me to see glory in me seeing light it's all that's really happening is that I'm seeing reality and I'm leaning towards believing it that's what light does and so I started to think okay I like to steal a lot because I used to steal because I figured if I steal my outfit for the club then I got money for the drink y'all don't get that I thought I was being a good story you hear me I still that's deserving of death of a porn addict been watching porn since I was 5 to 19 lesbianism that's obviously wrong according to the these Christians I talked to every even authority disrespect to parents I remember that the law had something to say about people who didn't like authority and the authority or authoritative systems that God set in place so I recognized Jackie everything you love has nothing to do with God's glory everything you love and enjoy has nothing to do with him and you were created for him Colossians 1 16 all things were created through him and for you nothing about your life proves that you're submitted to the reason you were made but I also saw another thing it wasn't just that the scriptures condemned my life it was that the same scriptures that condemned my life had hope for me as a person I remember the one scripture that everybody know which is John 3 16 and that for God so loved the world the world being me that he gave his only son that whoever whoever being me believed in him would not perish would not be condemned would not be judged the way they should be judged but they would have eternal life so I figured that if God is trying to get me to turn from this stuff then he must be the only alternative for me he must be the satisfying one he must be the good one he must be the right one he must be the true one he must be the good one or he wouldn't want me to come to him that was the Holy Spirit I was able to see Jesus for who he was so I told him I said God I don't I don't wanna be straight though like I get what you're saying but I don't like men which is a common response because oftentimes people have preached heterosexuality and not the gospel so naturally when they hear the call of God they think they hear the call of marriage or the call of being with another person what God is saying come to me come to me and I will figure out every single thing else I'm not calling you I'm not necessarily calling you to be heterosexual in the sense of having no temptations but I'm calling you to be holy in the sense of whatever temptations you have you know how to flee now God was saying come and love me and we'll figure the rest out I told God I don't know what this is gonna look like I know enough about me to know I can't do this on my own I've tried to be righteous I've tried to be holy you say this stuff is as filthy rags and all I have to offer you is filthiness my hands are not strong enough to walk like Jesus without Jesus I didn't know that that was repentance and faith I didn't even have categories for those words but it was repentance because I saw my sin for what it was I saw that it was worthless and I saw that it was not satisfying I saw that even though it felt good didn't mean that it was good but I also saw Jesus and so am I seeing my sin for what it was I was able to turn towards somebody I didn't turn in on myself and say okay I just got to go to church more and I just got to pray more and I just got to do right and I just got to do better and I just got fast a little bit all those spiritual disciplines are great but they don't get me to glory without the Holy Spirit I have to turn to somebody to do the work that I could not do on my own that was repentance and faith and from that moment something was weird about me I went to work and I work cash register and there was this girl behind she was in line trying to take order and usually a day before that two days before that I would have tried to flirt with her in such a way to see if she you know would go and all of a sudden I felt this awareness of God that I never had and it wasn't as if two days before I didn't know that God could see everything I knew he could see everything because I grew up in church the difference was this time I cared the proof of my repentance and my salvation was not the absence of temptation but now it was the awareness of God and the power to obey that was the fruit of repentance so some of you in here might not have what you call a miraculous story and so maybe that's led you to be afraid I've heard it a lot especially people that grow up in church it's like you know I came to faith on six like I didn't have a crazy story like yours I'm sleepy so I'm trying to control myself but that's the devil because it don't matter how you came to faith you came to faith and every single person in this room don't matter how you were raised or your particular economic political social whatever context everybody in this room was a Lazarus so there is no it don't matter how you came to faith you were raised from the dead and that in and of itself is crazy so don't underestimate how God can use the power of a five-year-old testimony because some of us who have children need to believe and recognize that God is saving even the little ones too secondly if you're afraid of how people might think about you if you tell your story really you gotta just not care about that honestly because nobody's opinion is authoritative except God so if they reject you it's cool the gospel says that you're accepted if they shame you it's cool God put that on himself on the cross you free if they treat you like you are what you used to be it's cool the gospel says you're a new creation the scriptures and what God has done for you allows you to discern the lives of Satan inside of your fear and to walk free from it thirdly stop making your story about you remember um the lady at the well who had Jesus had cake I'm paraphrasing this in a hood language remember remember the lady that was getting some water by herself and God was tired and he said give me some some drink because I'm thirsty and how he told her about her life and so she went back to the Samaritans and told them about Jesus and she said he told me all that I ever did crazy thing is that it said that the Samaritans went back to Jesus to hear from him after hearing what she said about him she and her telling her story her story was her telling them about him I think she probably said more about Jesus than she said about herself and in her exalting him through her story is the reason that many believed you have that same ability and that same privilege to be able to preach through your life God is sovereign right we agree God wants glory right we agree if that is the case don't you think that he had his hands on your story for the sole purpose of his glory your story don't belong to you you don't own it it is yours to store it and give away so that he could be seen and perhaps that might be why we hold it in so much because we don't see how useful it actually is so I'm not saying get on the stage in front of 1,500 people and tell all your business I've been doing this for a minute but there are ways that God can use your day-to-day interactions to encourage to lift up to build up to warn to challenge and your relationships and your friendships on your social media there are ways that God wants to use the things that he is taking you through or taking you through to encourage the people that he's placed around you so don't be so self-centered or so near sighted that you think God just wants to use the things you do and not the things you did that sounded so good I never said that before and on that note we'll come to the end of our presentation from Jackie Hill Perry today on focus on the family John I really appreciate Jackie's insights and her devotion to doing God's will above all else Jackie and her husband Preston just celebrated their eighth wedding anniversary they have three daughters and a baby son yeah God has really blessed them with a beautiful family and Jackie has written a book about her experiences and in it she offers practical biblical tools for finding wholeness in Christ we all need that the book is called gay girl good God the story of who I was and who God has always been and I want to encourage you to get a copy from us here at focus on the family where the proceeds go right back into ministry help us save marriages save the lives of preborn babies and impact the culture with God's truth like Jackie shared today and the best way to support us is by making a monthly pledge it doesn't have to be a large amount it's the consistency that really helps us month to month and when you make a pledge of any amount we'll send you a copy of gay girl good God as our way of saying thank you and if a monthly commitment isn't possible for you right now we understand that we'll send the book to you for a one-time gift of any amount get your copy today and you can do that when you call 800 the letter a in the word family or donate and request the book we've got the links in the show notes by the way if you're interested in stories about how your faith can impact the culture let me encourage you to check out our daily citizen website you'll find the link at our website we'll have a great weekend with your family and your church family as well and be sure to join us on Monday we'll share encouragement from Deborah Piguet on how to develop godly confidence so we all have some area of our lives where we are not sure of our adequacy and so I just say okay so learn behavior you can learn to be confident but we learn through what we were told as a child or through authority figures or by failing and somebody poking fun at us about that so it's all learned but the thing is it can be unlearned on behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team thanks for listening to this focus on the family podcast take a moment if you would please and leave a rating for us in your podcast app and then share about this episode with a friend won't you I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ oh hey Mike got here as soon as I could what's going on man hey I just wanted to give you an update on my marriage is it good news yeah our marriage is going great right now I couldn't be happier dude that's awesome yeah it's like a solid five out of ten having a marriage that's just okay isn't what couples really want to live give yourself and your spouse an all-inclusive weekend where you'll slow your pace and focus on each other get more details at focus on the family comm slash getaway that's focus on the family comm slash getaway