And so I felt abandoned. Everything was going wrong.
It kept getting worse and worse, and I thought, where is my kind, gentle father? Pastor Andrew Brunson was accused of being a spy and a terrorist in Turkey. And he and his wife, Noreen, served there as missionaries.
He was held in Turkish prisons for two years and became somewhat of a political pawn. His incredible story is coming up today on Focus on the Family. Your host is Focus president and author, Jim Daly, and I'm John Fuller. John, this coming Sunday is the International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church. And I hope pastors and churches recognize that. It's so important for us to lift up those that are being persecuted, literally, physically, for their faith in Christ. In the United States, we haven't experienced that kind of severe persecution, as some have, and even giving, like I say, their lives for their belief in Jesus.
And we must not forget the sacrifice that many believers make, risking literally life and limb, knowing they have eternal life awaiting for them. Pastor Andrew Brunson and his wife, Noreen, were in a life and death situation. And today we're going to hear how God brought them through their trial by fire. Andrew and Noreen's ministry is called Wave Starters, and it's focused on the Muslim world, the persecuted church, and preparing believers to stand in difficult times. They have three grown children, and Andrew is a teaching elder in the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. He's written his incredible story in this book called God's Hostage, a True Story of Persecution, Imprisonment, and Perseverance.
And we have copies of that here. You'll find all the details in the episode notes. Andrew and Noreen, welcome to Focus on the Family. Thank you.
So good to have you with us. It takes a special kind of person to dedicate yourself to a lifetime of service on the mission field. I have several friends that have done that in various parts of the world. How did you sense God calling you to the mission field? Hudson Taylor, who was a missionary to China, when he was an old man, a woman brought her two sons to him and asked him to lay hands on them and set them aside for missions. And so he did that. And both of those boys grew up to become missionaries.
One of them, Stanley Solto, when he was an old man, my mother took me and my younger sister to him and said, what Hudson Taylor did for you, I want you to do for my two children. And he laid hands on us and set us aside for missions. And I remembered it's one of my earliest memories.
I was only three years old, but I got a spanking right after it because I've been asking up. So that kind of engraved it in my mind. But I still have that memory of him praying for us. And from that time, I always had a very strong sense of calling into missions. I knew that I was set aside for that. So even during my time years, when I was not walking with the Lord for a time, I still if someone had asked me, what are you going to do when you're older? I said, if I survive this period of my life, I know that I'm supposed to be a missionary. So I already had that strong sense of calling. Dr. Darrell Bock Okay, so you're dating Noreen.
And she says, what are the dreams we have? And you say, well, I want to be a missionary. How did you respond to that?
Noreen It came out very quickly. And I realized early on that if I marry this man, it means that I'm going to the mission field. So I was willing. When our mission board asked us to go to Turkey, I was not happy about that. And I cried on the plane over because I thought my life was done for sure. But that's how negatively I started out the whole thing. But four years on and we didn't leave the field for four years. I thought if I came back, I wouldn't go return to the field. But at the three and a half, four year mark, I realized my heart was just tied. However, God did it. I don't know. But I was fully committed, if not more.
Dr. Darrell Bock Well, for those that don't have that calling and don't understand what that environment's like, describe that a bit. So you get married, you have children, right? And then you moved to Turkey? No, actually, our children were born there. Oh, they were born.
Yes. So the reason to go to Turkey is we had God just put on both of our hearts around the same time and separately, that we should go to the Muslim world. And Muslim world is the most unreached people.
And Turkey is the largest unevangelized country in the world. So we didn't really want to go there. We were headed toward the Arab world. Our mission asked us to go to Turkey and we went in obedience. So when we got there, it's not that we were enamored of the food or the culture or anything like that.
What God did is he put, the way I think of it is he put some of his love for Turkey in our hearts. And this love was not expressed necessarily in emotion, but in a commitment to see blessing come to that people. And that kept us there over the years. We had a strong sense of assignment that this is what God has for us. And when difficulties came, that was such a blessing for us that we knew this is what we're supposed to be doing.
Right. But it's a powerful statement that it's an act of obedience. How many Christians in our modern era need to remember that no matter if they're just living here in the US and doing their daily routine or going on the mission field? I mean, your life is an act of obedience.
That's the core thing, isn't it? The goal that I have in my life is to love God. You know, Jesus said, this is the most important thing, love him with all my heart, soul, mind and strength. One of the ways I express that love is through obeying him. And so Jesus said, if you love me, you will obey me. And so I had that in prison where I did a number of things out of obedience.
I didn't have any emotion behind it, yet it was really out of my love for him that I was doing it. So that's really the main thing. Right. I mean, this is dangerous work going to the mission field in the Middle East.
I mean, I can imagine all the turbulence that was especially in the early days going through your heads and your hearts about what this will be like. And in fact, you would receive death threats. I think a man shot at you several times.
Tell that story. Well, anybody who's involved in a public ministry in Turkey will have threat. So it's not just something that happened to us. We were involved in church plants and these were public. The way that we would start is we'd put a sign on a building and say, this is a church. And then that provokes a reaction.
But then also seekers, people who are wanting to ask questions know where to go. So we had a public ministry. And that meant that there were death threats that were bomb threats.
And you mentioned once a man, we had a church plant in an unchurched city, a place where there were no churches. And he was upset about that. And he came to Izmir where we were living and attacked our church. So he shot at me. And once he pulled the shotgun out, I knew that he couldn't miss. At first he pulled a pistol.
This is amazing. So I was standing outside the church with one of our young men talking. And then I look and there's a man who has stopped and is pointing a pistol at me and just with hatred in his eyes and just started shooting. And afterwards, he pulled out a shotgun. And I thought if he goes into church with a shotgun, we could have a massacre here. And I had been frozen up until then.
Now I kind of unfrozen, ran over and just tried to hold him in a bear hug until help came. And that's amazing. Not many people have that in their portfolio. This is something you didn't learn in missionary school. I'm thinking. Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was a Lord. There's no question. In 2016, for some unexplained reason, you had a sense that God was saying something to you one day.
And what was it? Yeah, just out of the blue, I had this thought, it's time to come home. And it kept coming into my mind again and again. I wasn't thinking about home. I was as far as I was concerned, I was home. I was in Turkey. We'd lived there. Yeah. How long had we been there? Twenty three years at that time.
Wow. And we expected that we would be there for the remainder of our of our lives. We had no intention of leaving.
Really, I think what God was doing is he was preparing me before this ordeal started. When we were arrested, I immediately thought, Oh, here we've invested so many years in Turkey, we have ministries that we we see such potential and we're preparing for what we believe is a harvest that is going to come in that land. And now we're going to be deported is what we were told. I thought God prepared me for this to tell me I'm involved in this. You know, you're going to be deported. You're gonna leave, but I'm in it.
Don't worry about it. And then as they held me in prison. Yeah, you know, well, yeah, that we're going to get to that.
But I want to go to that moment. Because again, people don't know the story fully. You get a call from the police or were they at your door or what what took place? And what was the accusation? We got a call, we were actually out of town. And we got a call from the church, somebody who was a Turkish brother who was at the church, he said the police have been coming here, they're they're looking for you.
And so we said, Okay, you know, we're out of town, we're not here, we'll be back in town tomorrow. When we got back, we found a notice on our door saying please report to the police station. And because we had applied for long term residence permits, we thought that that's what we were being called in for the final interview.
And hey, it came in. And this is good news, just a different type of long term residency, right? I mean, seriously, they were thinking prison, you're thinking just here for a long time. So they didn't have any accusation against us at the time, they just called us and they said, there's an order for deportation, then we found out very quickly, they had given us was called the G 82 designation, which is threat to national security. And then they listed under that terrorism.
Huh? And what was that linkage? I mean, what was their rationale for that?
Obviously, it was cut out of cloth, there was no truth to that. That's just something they use when they want to deport someone. So they wanted to, they'd already deported another missionary with a similar profile, who was working in a church and also was working with refugees from Syria. And right after we were arrested, another missionary friend of ours was also deported with the same profile, but they were deported, they were deported. And so there was an order to deport us. But what happened is, they arrested us to hold us for deportation.
Usually, this should take just one day or two days for an American. But it extended. And we came to see pretty quickly, there's something unusual going on here, because they turned away the American Council who came to visit, they would not allow a lawyer to come in. And we were kept isolated for 13 days.
Huh? And that was both of you? We were both together, which was really good for me that we were initially held together. And that was for a couple of weeks?
Yes. And then what happened? They suddenly released me with no explanation. You know, we didn't know what was happening. And then they transferred Andrew in the middle of the night that night to another facility. And then there was another period of waiting. So it was just this silence.
They weren't telling us anything. How do you process that? I mean, what there's no recourse.
It's unlike the US justice system. You don't get to see a lawyer, you're not really represented by anybody. How did you maintain contact in that situation? Did you go visit him? The next day, I so after I was released, I tried to go back that next day to, you know, just he was going to put something in the window. And I was just going to try to wave or something to him just to see and then he I got there and he wasn't there.
He had been moved. And so then I went to try to find him at the next place and see him. So so I was held without contact, I was isolated. And I was taken to a different facility held in solitary confinement, then Noreen would come every day to that facility. Sometimes I would let her in to see me sometimes they wouldn't. And did you make eye contact at the window? Or what?
How would you know that? She was there? Well, in this detention facility, I actually did have a room that had a window so I could look out and see if our van had driven up.
Okay. So even if she wasn't allowed to see me, at least I knew that she was still in the country that I hadn't been left completely alone. This was not a prison. This was a detention center, which is the only reason that he could actually look out. Once I got into prison, there were no windows.
Yeah. And how long were you in that detention center? Well, for another 50-55 days, I think of the the detention time is 63 days. Some of it was with her and then I was put in solitary confinement. And that was really difficult for me the solitary confinement time after that I was transferred to high security prison. Was there any at that point, any physical abuse, beatings or anything like that torture? No, I never had torture during the time there.
Yeah. Well, we're hearing just part of the incredible story from Andrew and Noreen Brunson. It's captured in the book that Andrew has written called God's hostage, a true story of persecution, imprisonment and perseverance. Contact focus on the family for your copy.
Our numbers 800 the letter a and the word family and the link is in the episode notes. Noreen, let me ask you during that time, I can't imagine what was going on in your heart. I mean, all the uncertainty, there's no clarity. There's no hearing date set.
He's just being held Andrews just being held. What were your emotions like? How old are your children at this point?
And how are you holding it together? Yeah, they were. So our children at that time were 15, 18 and 21.
Our son had turned 21. No, they were out of the country. And I was relieved about that. I was just happy to have them only what you sure that I was happy to have them safely out of the country. Let me just put it that way. I was relieved that they were not in any danger.
Two older ones were in college, and the youngest was with Andrews family finishing high school. And so back to those emotions for you. Yeah, of course, fear, you know, you name it. A lot going on.
There was such silence, we couldn't get information. That was the difficulty. So I got a lawyer, she couldn't get to Andrew, she tried was trying to get into Andrew, and they were not letting a Turkish lawyer. That's a difficulty in itself. Who can you trust? Who can you not trust?
No, she was a good lawyer. Later on, we ended up having to change because she probably came under some pressure. But that was a challenge in itself. Well, I just I think it's an amazing thing to feel that helplessness.
How are you leaning into the Lord? Yeah, I had to. I mean, how are you doing it, though? I mean, a lot of wives and moms may face something not like this. Yeah. But they feel that isolation. They feel lonely.
They don't see where this is going to end. Right. That was your moment.
Right. That would have had to be what you were feeling. When they had clicked not only the that we're a threat to national security, but also then they checked the terrorism box. From that point on, I was worried that something was up. Yeah, something was different. And I didn't know where that was going to lead, to be honest. Andrew, I wanted to ask you, you were moved to. Can I say something?
Sure. What I saw is over the years, she was very consistent in setting aside time to spend with God. Even when we had young children and she was very, very busy. She would try to set aside time every day. And it's not that she was having these great revelations every day in her quiet time, but it was very consistent. And what that did is it built a very deep reservoir in her. And so then when we were held together, what I noticed, we were more like the tortoise and the hare. You know, I'd get really excited about God.
I just sprint forward and then I kind of slack off and then sprint again. But she was very consistent. And what I saw in those two weeks that we were held together, I thought she's doing better than I am. And what she was doing was drawing from that deep reservoir. Yeah.
But that's a good word for all of us to build that reservoir. Yeah. I mean, at this time also, I had to I knew there was no option then to lean on to God. I couldn't do it on my own.
That's for sure. I also wasn't alone there. My kids weren't there, but I had believers. And so I was not alone. I had people who would pray with me, you know, unlike Andrew, who was really cut off. They eventually moved you to sacron prison.
Is that how you pronounce that? Yeah, I had been in I was in solitary for about 50 days. And then they put me into a high security prison. And that was that prison. And you were with cellmates. Tell us about that.
What that looked like? Well, they put me into a cell with very strong Muslims, they were all very committed Muslims, because they were, they were all accused of being part of a group called the Toula Gulen movement, which there had been a coup attempt in Turkey that summer. And that group was accused of being behind it. And they were rounding them up. And they're very committed, strong Muslims, whatever else and maybe their missionary society, and Islamic missionary society, they had started schools in 170 countries around the world to bring their version of Islam. So these are the people I was kept with throughout my imprisonment.
Tell me about that. How did they interact with you? How big was the cell? How many people were with you in the cell? So it was a cell built for eight people.
But the prisons were very overcrowded. So we had over 20 people in our cell. And I've said that it was like living in a mosque. By the way, we never left the cell 24 seven, you stay in that cell, your food is brought there, everything is done.
They're the only time we leave the cell is if we're going to meet our lawyer or something like that. So it's 24 seven in that environment, very crowded with the same people. And I've said it was like living in a mosque, but it was actually there was more Islamic worship going on than you would have in a mosque. Because in a mosque you have five prayers a day. Here it was 24 seven, there was every hour of the day or night there was someone praying or chanting the Quran, or having a Quranic class, because they were all desperate to get out. And they thought the way to do this was to, you know, pray more. And they were being held because they were political prisoners, correct? They were political prisoners. And how did that interaction occur with you? You're sitting in the cell as a Christian?
How? Well, I was accused of being part of that Islamic group, which is very strange. The Turkish government gave many reasons changing reasons over time for why they were holding me, right. And they knew that I was not part of an Islamic group, but they accused me of being part of that. And again, how did those interactions play out for you as a Christian man with 20 or 19? deeply committed Muslim men, so they knew that I was a Christian, clearly. And I had a clear witness to them, I would answer their questions, I would share the gospel with them.
There were some who are very friendly, there were some who were neutral, and there were some who are hostile. Was this a situation Andrew where you had just kind of stake out a little few square feet on the floor and you, you're just they're surrounded by all these men. I staked out my bed, I was lucky in that I was one of the early people in that cell. So I got a bed. And then as they stuffed it, then people slept on the floor as well. So really, the area that I had was the size of my mattress where I was, I could say that was my personal space. But even that wasn't because I was when I was lying down, there was a face, you know, about eight inches away from mine.
Oh, my goodness. And he was not a friendly face. Yeah, but that interaction that had to just be emotional pressure the entire time. Noreen, in the book, you describe the sense of Andrews health declining, describe what was happening and Andrew certainly fill in the blanks, but what were you observing? Just how very difficult it was for him. He was having a lot of panic attacks, a lot of anxiety, unable to sleep.
When you can't sleep when you can't, you know, that just makes everything more difficult. I think. I think the stakes were very high.
I think this was more than something targeting. Yeah, I think there's a whole lot more going on in the spiritual realm. And therefore he was feeling all that spiritual oppression. How did that manifest itself in your observations when you were able to meet with him? What were you seeing that demonstrated that to you?
Just the stress, the anxiety. He wasn't himself. He was a total wreck. Well, every time I talked with her, we would talk through glass with bars and on a phone. And it was a very limited time. And we never know if we were going to be able to have that meeting.
There's one once a week you're supposed to be able to talk. But I never know if I would have that because I'm a foreigner and I didn't have the same rights as a Turkish prisoner. So I was distraught. I would cry a lot during the time I was going into a relational crisis with God, a spiritual crisis. And Noreen had to speak truth to me and try to correct where I was thinking in a wrong way, because one of the very difficult things is was a sense of isolation I had first when I was in solitary confinement. Then I was really alone. But here I am in a very crowded cell. But I'm very isolated in my faith. So I'm isolated by my culture, life experience, nationality, things like that. But what was really difficult was I had the only Christian I had any interaction with during the two years was with Noreen on our visits.
Otherwise, I'm alone in my faith. And that was very, very difficult. And I went into relational crisis.
And you probably will talk about that a little later. Well, I think getting the heart of that is now I mean, I so appreciate that aspect of your book where you're vulnerable with that, you know, a lot of men would say, No, I was very strong. And I was there for the Lord.
And that all sounds right. But that wasn't the initial experience for you. And I appreciate that honesty, that you did struggle with God, you were having doubts, you were concerned about, I think, what I read in the book that, you know, you were questioning why you're in the spot, which is completely normal. So the things that took me into crisis with God, were that my expectations of him were not met.
So I was deeply wounded in my heart. Some of that came from I knew that what I was experiencing was persecution. But I had expected that from all the biographies I'd read, and just from my own walk with God, what I expected that he would do for me and difficulty was that I would have a sense of strength, but I felt very weak, that I'd have a sense of joy, I just felt grief and loss, that I would have a sense of grace. And I did have grace, as I look back, it's very clear that I did that brought me through, but it was an unfelt grace, for the most part, and especially that I would have a sense of God's presence. And so that sense of God's presence was completely removed from me after the first couple weeks. And so I felt abandoned, and I, everything was going wrong, it kept getting worse and worse. And I thought, Where is my kind, gentle father?
Yeah. And so that that took me into questioning, this may be hard for some people to believe I have a hard time with it. I questioned God's existence.
This is after I've been a missionary for 23 years. It was just the pressure I was under the lack of sleep, the fear, the panic attacks, I was feeling overwhelmed by the saying, Where is God? Why aren't you intervening in some way that will strengthen me?
Yeah. And this took me into questioning existence. Then I said, No, you must exist because you're the only reason I'm being persecuted. But then it took me into really questioning God's character, his love, his faithfulness, his goodness, his truth. Well, and it so reminds us of Job or other Old Testament people who experienced that as well. And I think the application here, I mean, this is an extremely unique situation that you're in as missionaries in a Muslim country, being lied about being held captive in prison, without explanation, not many of us are going to experience that. But that sense of abandonment by God. Now we're starting to talk to people's hearts.
It totally different set of circumstances, of course. But that feeling like, Father, where are you? That's what you're describing. People sometimes begin to tell me a struggle they're going through. And then they kind of pull back and say, Well, you know, but Andrew, yours was really, really difficult that that mine can't compare. And I usually stop them say, you know, my tests were enough to knock me out of relationship with God. And your tests are more than enough to knock you out of friendship with God as well. So we're tested in different ways. You know, mine was a very intense prison experience. But we're all tested in different ways.
But the area of the heart that is tested is the same. Wow. Man, this is so good. And we have run out of time, we've got to come back tomorrow, continue the discussion, if I could keep you here to do that. And again, there's so much application here, you may think like I just expressed, this is unique.
But there are things you can learn. And next time, I'd like to talk about the experiences in court, the trials, kind of that shame you felt, and then how the US government got involved and aided your situation and helped you. If you can, can we come back and cover that?
Absolutely. Okay, I appreciate that. And your wonderful book, God's hostage, a true story of persecution, imprisonment and perseverance. I mean, this is right out of the writings of the Apostle Paul, and what he experienced. And I want to talk about that tomorrow, as that guided you.
And I would encourage you to get this wonderful resource, you may not be locked up in prison, but you may be locked up in other ways. And I think this read is not only to bolster your faith, but to help you in your relationships, your perspective about God, your dependence upon Him, regardless of your circumstances. And I'm telling you, your faith will grow by reading this book. Call or donate online.
The links are in the episode notes. Also at the website, we're going to have links to how you can more effectively and consistently pray for our Christian brothers and sisters around the world who are facing persecution. So be sure to check that out. Contact us today to get your copy of this great book. Donate as you can.
We're listener supported. Your monthly pledge, a sustaining gift of any amount, makes a big difference in stabilizing our budget from month to month and throughout the fiscal year. Or if you can make a one-time gift, we sure would appreciate that as well. Either way, donate today to get your copy of God's Hostage, a true story of persecution, imprisonment, and perseverance. The number is 800, the letter A in the word family, or details are in the episode notes. On behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family.
I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we continue the story from the Brunson's and once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. I'm here asking people to define the word appreciate. It's like when something goes up in value.
It's telling someone they did a good job. Focus on the Family invites you to give a gift that appreciates when you give a non-cash gift of stocks, bonds, or mutual funds. You'll avoid a capital gains tax, get a deduction, and help families thrive for generations to come. Find out more about non-cash gifts. Just visit FocusPlannedGiving.com.
Whisper: medium.en / 2023-07-27 21:25:59 / 2023-07-27 21:37:58 / 12