A Conversation With Governor Greg Abbott

Christmas memories of baking and sharing stories with your family. That's depicted in the giclee from Focus on the Family titled Family Traditions. This story and paint by artist Morgan Weisling, a portrait of a lively family kitchen scene, will find a special place in your home and heart. Find out how to get a signed version of this special edition print at focusonthefamily.com slash family traditions. That's focusonthefamily.com slash family traditions. We believe in pro-life policies, but a part of those pro-life policies is promoting adoption so that every child can have a life, but also providing adoption in a way that a child can go lead a healthy, happy, fulfilling life.

And that's exactly what we wanted to provide. Texas Governor Greg Abbott joins us today on Focus on the Family, talking about some of the challenges that families face and how Texas seems to be in the center of our cultural conversation about families in so many ways. Your host is Focus President and author Jim Daly, and I'm John Fuller. John, we're living in some incredibly turbulent times in these days, and probably things are occurring that even a decade ago would not have been thought imaginable. And families are concerned about their children's education and safety and creating an environment for life. There's a lot happening.

Religious liberty is another issue. The state of Texas is very much in the national conversation on these topics and these issues, and the governor of the state has been in the news a lot this past year, really the last couple of years in some tremendous ways. And we have the privilege today to talk to the governor of Texas, Governor Abbott, and we are looking forward to it. Apart from the government duties, there's also a human side of this equation, and I'm honored to have the opportunity to visit with the governor about who he is and what he's learned over the years.

Indeed. And Governor Abbott has been in his role since 2014. He was elected the 48th governor of Texas then, and prior to that was the longest serving attorney general in the state's history.

He's responsible for the ninth largest economy in the world, which is really something to think about. Married to his wife, Cecilia, for 40 years. She's a former teacher and principal, the first Hispanic first lady of Texas.

They have a daughter who just graduated from college. And today, Jim, we're sitting in the governor's mansion in Austin, Texas. Governor Abbott, welcome to Focus on the Family.

Great to be with you. Thank you so much. And I might add, welcome to the governor's mansion of the great state of Texas. This is a beautiful home. Well, thank you.

Quite historic home. Let me start, because some of our listeners, especially those that live outside of Texas, don't know your story. And you have an amazing story, and I'd like to start there, because you graduated law school, you married your wife, Cecilia, and then you had this tragic accident.

What happened? Well, interestingly, it's a question I get so often, because I'm on national TV a lot, and I'll go to different locations across the country, and people will meet me, and they'll say, I had no idea you were in a wheelchair. What are you doing in a wheelchair? And so actually, I do get this question quite a bit across the country. What happened is my wife and I have been married for just over two years, and moved to Houston, Texas, where I had taken a job to begin our career and our lives. Exciting time.

And when you're billing for the future. And I was studying for the bar exam to be a licensed lawyer. And I took a break from studying for the bar exam and went out for a jog.

I was an avid runner. And I was out running this particular day, and an enormous oak tree fell as I was running. And it crashed down into my back, fracturing my vertebrae and my spinal cord, leaving me immediately paralyzed. And I was taken to a hospital.

I was in an intensive care unit for about 10 days as they were trying to figure out how to remove all these vertebrae fragments from my spinal cord, which is very, very difficult, going through lengthy surgeries and then in a rehabilitation center for months. And so it was a long recovery period. I got to tell you, it's a time when you really have to question life. And a lot of questions are raised.

But I'll tell you this. I was born and raised a Christian. What we often do is we have challenges in life when our faith is tested.

And I call myself a born again Christian, because it was during these times that I fully realized that the only pathway I had for the future of my life was by leaning on Christ and having my relationship with Christ be what would pull me through this most challenging time of my entire life. Dr. Darrell Bock Governor, let me ask you this. You've lived it. So many people are listening who have had tragedy strike them.

How did you get through that aspect of it? The old question? Why me, Lord?

Dr. Jay Harness Right. So in that, that is the question. And I'm glad you asked the question the way you did, because I know that there will be people who were watching, who may be going through a physical challenge, an emotional or family or whatever type of challenge they're facing.

And I would strongly urge them to learn the lesson that I learned. And that is we, it's common to ask, why me? But it's important to answer, let God lead the way. And if you let God lead the way and truly turn your life over to God, God will build a pathway for you. There is a reason I believe, why everything happens. And I have found meaning in the accident that I sustained, the recovery that I've been through, the pathway that I've been down since that recovery. And what I have found when I have looked back is every step of the way, there was God guiding me every step of the way. Dr. Darrell Bock And what a wonderful example you are of not letting those limitations, you know, curtail what you can do in this life. I mean, you're the governor of one of the biggest states in this country. And it's amazing to see what God has done through your faithfulness. Dr. Jay Harness And that's a good way to put it. Because as we all know, with God, anything is possible. And even a person whose life and body has been broken in half can rise up and be governor of one of the largest states in the world.

So we have today the ninth largest economy in the entire world. Dr. Darrell Bock That's amazing. Dr. Jay Harness But it shows that you can rise up and be the leader of the ninth largest economy in the entire world, with God guiding you down that pathway. Dr. Darrell Bock It's one of the great examples of the many things this country allows to occur.

And let me get into some of the issues that you face every day as governor. One of the things, you're very pro adoption. You have an adopted daughter. Dr. Jay Harness We do. Dr. Darrell Bock And we do something called Wait No More, focus on the family. The last 10 years has been working with foster adoption.

I'm very proud of that. Thousands of kids have been adopted through that program. Speak to that issue personally and as well as a policy, as a public policy matter, the idea of adoption. Dr. Jay Harness So, as I understand the situation, the birth mother of our daughter had considered perhaps an abortion, but was really seeking discernment for the right path of what to do in her life. And she met and got to know some people who were involved in crisis pregnancy centers. And she was led down the pathway of giving birth to the daughter that we adopted.

And so much so that I was actually the first person to hold our daughter after she was born. But it connects to something that we believe in. We believe in pro life policies, but a part of those pro life policies is promoting adoption so that every child can have a life, but also providing adoption in a way that a child can go lead a healthy, happy, fulfilling life.

And that's exactly what we wanted to provide. Dr. Mark A. watching knows about it. Talk about the strategy of that, if you can, and then what you were attempting to do signing that bill into law.

Dr. Jay Harness Sure. So a lot of the lead strategy behind this came from a person who was my former Solicitor General when I was the Attorney General of Texas. The strategy was twofold. One, we really wanted to pass a law that did more to protect life than ever before. And I think that we can all agree we should all be able to agree that every child with a heartbeat should be spared from the ravages of abortion.

It's just that simple. So from a policy perspective about saving life, we wanted to make sure that a child's life would be protected. Part of the strategy was one that we knew that government enforcement of mandates like that would be more likely to be overturned legally. And so we came up with a new enforcement mechanism. An enforcement mechanism, by the way, that's been around since the entirety of the United States of America. And that is, it provides third parties, it's called a KETAM, just to get into details, it's called a KETAM lawsuit where it provides third parties the enforcement power. It's used in Medicaid and Medicare claims. It's used in any type of False Claims Act against the federal government. And so it just imported into the enforcement mechanism a strategy that's been used for well over a century in the United States.

Dr. Ken Jones When you look at it, today is Monday. We're airing the program as oral arguments are being heard on this very case, the Texas case. If you were here before a Supreme Court justice, what would you say to them to try to persuade them that this is good? Attorney General Barr One thing that the Supreme Court has said in the past, has written in the past in abortion cases, and that is states have the authority and the responsibility to look after both the health and safety of the mother and the child.

And that's exactly what we're doing. We continue to support the health and safety of the mother through this law, but also, we do more to promote the health and safety of the child. And so this really does dovetail with what the Supreme Court has written in the past. And the reality is, with the advancements of medicine, children are being saved at earlier and earlier ages. And this is the step that Texas has taken is just consistent with the advancements that we've seen in medicine and the ability to protect children at their earliest of ages. Dr. Ken Jones It seems one of the missing ingredients has been the political spine to actually step up and defend these, you know, preborn children. I think that's why the country is really rallying around you and other governors that have expressed such support for the preborn child. So, thank you. Dr. Ken Jones Sure. I've had so many people as I'm out traveling literally every day, and strangers will come up to me and thank me for signing this law in the City of Texas, because it does send such a strong signal about the support and the reverence that we have for children.

Dr. Ken Jones Which is so good. In fact, my wife sent me a picture I was going to ask you about that. It was a billboard in Colorado Springs, and it was a bunch of puppies.

And I want to get this quote correctly. It said on the billboard with all these puppies, if Planned Parenthood was killing puppies instead of babies, then would you care? I mean, isn't that the point?

It's a great eye-catching moment, right, that maybe our emphasis is on the wrong thing. Dr. Ken Jones Well, I think we just need to clarify the emphasis, because some people claim and argue that by focusing on the child, we are ignoring the mother, and that's not the case. Dr. Ken Jones That is an old argument.

Dr. Ken Jones I know. We strongly support all women, including women who are pregnant and women who will be giving birth to a child. And we continue to do so in this law. And Texas continues to pass laws to support mothers who do get pregnant, who do get birth. But also we need to support the children. Dr. Ken Jones Absolutely. And thankfully, I know many pregnancy resource clinics right here in Texas that do an outstanding job of that, helping them with budget training and job training and job placement and goods for their children, the cribs, the formula, whatever they need.

Dr. Ken Jones And so along those lines, at the same time that we passed this bill, we also added funding in our state budget to provide more of those types of services. Dr. Ken Jones Let me ask you a question that really irritates me if I could say it that way, and I get it from reporters all the time. As evangelical Christians, why do you get so wrapped up in the Republican Party? And I would say, I think from my perspective, I say to them, when was the last time you asked that of a liberal or progressive, that the candidate that they support actually puts forward policies that they can adhere to, right?

And I think it's such an absurd question. I'd love for both Democrats and Republicans to be pro-life, pro-family, pro-marriage, in order to, I think, provide a more stable culture for ourselves. But how would you respond to that, that, you know, Christians being wrapped around a certain party, we identify with the policies that we'd like to live out, right?

Dr. Ken Jones Right. I mean, to look conversely, socialists define with a particular party. It's not the Republican Party. But there is, if you would, some tension between those who are pro-life and those who are socialists. We believe that the family is the centerpiece of the United States of America. Dr. Darrell Bock And you've been bold about that. Dr. Ken Jones Right. And so we naturally promote pro-family policies.

And children are a core component of that. Dr. Darrell Bock Yeah. Here in Texas, you've taken a strong stance on protecting children from ideological or radical ideas. Speak to some of those strong things that you've done to try to get education back to education. Dr. Ken Jones You said it well. We need to get education back to education. Dr. Darrell Bock Right. Dr. Ken Jones We need, if we're going to keep up in this international economy, we need to make sure that our students are learning the core principles of math, of science, and the hard skills they need to learn, as opposed to the ideology that the educators are trying to indoctrinate our children in.

I'll just give you a couple of quick examples concerning some laws that we passed. And that is, we see this effort to try to allow boys to participate in girls' sports. Dr. Darrell Bock Exactly. Dr. Ken Jones It just makes no sense whatsoever.

And that's why we passed a law to prevent boys from participating in girls' sports in the state of Texas. Dr. Darrell Bock Can I ask you this? Dr. Ken Jones Sure. Dr. Darrell Bock Because so often you hear the argument, you're being mean-spirited.

Bat that down, because that's not it. We care about everybody. Dr. Ken Jones So I think it's being mean-spirited to allow girls who have worked for years to be a state champion, only to lose that state championship to a boy competing against them. This is actually being pro-girl, pro-woman.

And as a father of a daughter, I support those very principles. But another thing that we've been fighting against in the state of Texas that we've seen across the entire country, and that is this indoctrination through critical race theory that's being taught in our schools. And so we passed during the regular session and then during a special session what I think is the strongest ban on the teaching of critical race theory in the United States of America, because it's in every grade, it's in every subject, and it seeks to root out and eliminate any teaching of critical race theory in our schools. Dr. Darrell Bock Yes.

Let me ask you in that regard, you're sitting in an incredibly important position as governor of Texas. What is the big issue there with critical race theory? What is the threat to our freedoms in that regard?

Dr. Ken Jones There are several. One is a key component of the teachings of critical race theory is the antithesis of what God teaches, the antithesis of what the United States was founded upon. Because what it does is critical race theory provides people on the basis of race and then uses strategies to have them attack each other, using race as the reason to attack each other. So as opposed to uniting people, it's dividing people. And it teaches the contrary of what Martin Luther King Jr. taught us, and that is we're to be judged by the content of our character, not the color of our skin.

Dr. Darrell Bock Yeah. And that is so true. It's the opposite of what Martin Luther King Jr. shared with us, right, which I think everybody aspired to. That's a good thing. Let me move to the border crisis. I mean, Texas, you're at the epicenter. I was able to go down to McAllen, Texas and take a look at the border issues a couple of years ago. And it seemed like things were reasonably under control.

Things have exploded. As the governor, what do you see? What are the concerns? And again, it's not that we dislike or you dislike anybody. It's can we put this into a legal process, I'm sure.

Well, and so I'll expand on some key points that you made. Last year and a few years ago, the border was under better control than it had been maybe in decades. But this year, it's the worst that it's ever been. And it's because of lawlessness. It's because the Biden administration has promoted open border policies that have abandoned the rule of the laws passed by the United States Congress that established the immigration system in the United States. Whenever our country leaders go down a pathway of abandoning the rule of law that is articulated by either Congress or by state legislatures, you're going to sow chaos.

And chaos is exactly what we are reaping as a country right now, because of what the Biden administration has done. And that's what I'm trying to correct as governor of Texas. I'm with the largest border of any state of the United States.

I'm seeking to enforce the rule of law in our state to restore order and to get rid of the chaos, but also to restore public safety. We need to understand this is more than just people who are seeking food and hard work and a better way of life. There are cartel members, there are gangs, there are very dangerous traffickers of the deadly drug fentanyl. There's all kinds of dangerous elements, including people who are coming from terrorist based countries. There's people coming from more than 150 countries across the entire globe, across our border. Somebody has to stand up and say, we are going to protect the sovereignty of the United States of America.

Yeah. Governor, many people asked me this question, which I can't answer because I don't serve in a public capacity like you do. But why is it getting so difficult for people to agree on these things?

I don't care what letters behind your name, a D or an R and an I. But this is so self-evident that we need to protect the borders, to have orderly immigration. Why have people lost their way in this regard? Why has it become purely politics?

Because politics have become more polarized. You do see, just quite candidly, a socialistic agenda. These are policies that the Democrats all campaign up upon, and that is open border policies.

And it's chaotic. But they want to see America have open borders, which is no immigration system. And a country without borders is not a country. Does any country in the world do that?

No, I'm just carrying that. Look at Israel, for example, and the way that they secure their borders. In fact, even look at Mexico and the way it secures its borders. And so almost every country in the entire world, they understand that part of what makes them a country are the physical lines of their region.

And if we abandon those lines, we abandon our country, we abandon all the values that have been a part of our country since our very founding. I have friends down on the southern border, Bill and Kerry. They own property down there. They said that small towns, Yevvalda and other places, are just getting overrun, that it's diminishing their lives. People's houses are being broken into. There are a lot of ranches down there. The ranch fences are being cut.

Cattle and livestock are being let out. There's great destruction, just by the sheer number. Just this year alone, there have been over a million people coming across the border illegally. And those numbers add up, and they lead to all kinds of challenges in all the border-related communities.

Another policy area is human sex trafficking. You have been very strong. Texas is rated as one of the strongest states in the country. You get an A from our good friend Linda Smith, from Shared Hope. And they give every state a grade. I tried to do some things in our state of Colorado to improve the grade.

We took it from an F to a B plus. So we're not quite where you're at, but we're trying. And I just think that's an amazing achievement for the state of Texas under your leadership. What is capturing your attention in that area of sex trafficking?

Why do you care so much? Well, it's something I got involved in when I was the attorney general before I became governor. I was very active in using the tools as attorney general to – as a prosecutor to crack down on it.

But since I've been governor, I've signed a lot of laws that continue to crack down on it. In fact, this session, I signed nine laws cracking down on this heinous crime of human trafficking, because it is a depravity of life itself for anyone to be trafficked or to be violated the way that these victims of human trafficking are being violated. And that's something that President Biden and the others who are open borders need to understand, and that is by enticing people to come to this country, they are enticing people to go through the horrors of what human trafficking is all about.

And many people coming across the border are victims of that human trafficking because of the open border policies as opposed to having people go through the proper asylum process to come to the United States correctly. Yeah. And again, that's the big point. Do it orderly. Do it legally. And I think everybody's favorable toward that. Right. The United States has been a pro-legal immigration state from the very beginning, and there are very legal ways to do it.

And people need to follow those legal pathways to do it. Governor, I know you're on a tight schedule. Let me ask this final question.

And it's a personal one, I think. How can we pray for you? And in that context, what keeps you up at night? What do you worry about? Well, first, on the prayer, always pray for health and safety, but mostly pray for God's continued grace and guidance. If we all have God's grace and guidance, everything is going to work out. And so what I pray when I go to bed is for God's grace and guidance and knowing that everything will be just fine. I love that idea of wisdom. Solomon prayed for that. I think that's a good one. Exactly. And anything keeping you up?

If you have God on your side, you can sleep well. I like that, too. Governor Abbott, thank you so much for your time. And we so appreciate your leadership, truly, on behalf of millions of people, at least the focus, listenership. So thank you. Thank you all. What a great conversation. And I hope you've been encouraged by the governor and his stance for biblical perspectives on the issues surrounding us, one of those being life. Jim mentioned Wait No More. Let me also make mention of Option Ultrasound, which, Jim, is a terrific program saving preborn babies.

It is. And almost 500,000 babies have been saved, John, and I'm proud of that. I want to see a million saved over the next three, four years. And I think the Lord will smile if we can achieve that.

I think he's smiling now. But you heard the governor mention that today oral arguments are being heard right in the Supreme Court on the Texas heartbeat bill. Those that sell abortion, that promote the taking of preborn babies, they are attempting to squelch that, to turn it around, to overrule it.

I would say pray. Pray today for the wisdom of the Supreme Court to do the right thing. And it's possible. I think there is wind in the sails of life in this country. And there's been a lot of effort from so many organizations and people. And we need your prayers now. And also, obviously, if you can support Focus on the Family with Option Ultrasound, we'd really appreciate it. It only costs $60 to save a baby's life. And I would encourage you to consider saving a baby's life today. As you've said time and again in the halls of Focus, Jim, a million alive by 2025. Join us in this effort to save every baby's life that can be saved through our Option Ultrasound program.

You can do that by donating a $60 gift when you call 800, the letter A in the word family, or click the episode notes for more details. John, let me say one last thing about interviewing a governor. I don't care if there's an R or a D behind that person's name. I would wish that everybody would be concerned about the family structure, about traditional marriage, about children, about the issue of taking an innocent child's life. Wouldn't it be a better country if politically all those things were seen as normal and that we all championed? It is not a political thing. These are moral issues in the public square. And I hope you understand that. Don't consider abortion politics.

Abortion is an evil in this country, an immoral situation that we, the body of Christ, need to correct in our culture. One other thing that comes to mind is your opportunity to stay up to date with cultural currents, things that the governor has addressed, and much, much more. The Daily Citizen is a service that we provide.

You can find out all the details about how to get updates in your email inbox on a regular basis. Check out The Daily Citizen and also make a donation if you can to the option ultrasound program that we have. The link is in the episode notes or call 1-800, the letter A in the word family. On behalf of Jim Daly and the rest of the team here, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family. Next time we'll hear from Dr. Tony Evans about having a kingdom marriage, and once again, help you and your family thrive in Christ. Just like a warm fireplace when it's cold outside, the joy of the Christmas season gives comfort and draws us closer to loved ones. I'm John Fuller and Focus on the Family is excited to let you know about our Christmas Stories podcast. Each episode brings heartwarming conversations to bring your family closer together and remind you of the hope we have in Jesus. You can enjoy that podcast at focusonthefamily.com slash Christmas Stories. That's focusonthefamily.com slash Christmas Stories.