To me, the 70s was all about rainbows. When I see myself in the 70s, I'm a lot thinner.
Yeah, the Vietnam War was really big. My hair was kind of long over my ears down to my shoulders, long sideburns. I loved tie-dye. The bell bottoms were comfortable.
I see big glasses and I see big hair. One of the things we did was roller skating. One Sunday a month we would go to the swap meet to make some money using my macrame plant hangers. Good times.
There we go. Well, those who grew up in the era of peace, love, and rock and roll often have some pretty fond memories about the music and the fashions and the explosion of new ideas. It was all this counterculture and a lot of it was pretty innocent. I liked the comment about the bell bottoms. I was one of the first kids in my, I think it was probably fifth grade class, to wear bell bottoms. I did. I wore white platform shoes. I had these platform shoes. I did.
Let's stop there. What do you remember about the 70s? I just wore jeans. I don't know what it was, but what do I remember about the 70s? I don't know.
I was more into football and all that kind of stuff. Jean, though, she did the swap meet. She sold ditto jeans, I think it was.
I think I remember that. So, I mean, it's just crazy. Those are the years that had a lot of, I don't know, cultural upheaval was occurring at the time and, you know, we're still kind of suffering from those outcomes.
Those were the years where drugs and partying really took root in the culture. The cost of the illegal drugs in terms of crime, lost productivity and healthcare is estimated at about $200 billion a year. And then to that, you can add almost another $80 billion because of prescription drug abuse. It is a tragedy right in front of us. And we need to do more and more as the people of faith in this culture to talk about what's going on and why this is not healthy for every one of us.
Yeah. And while the 70s had those happier moments, the legacy of the drug abuse that you're talking about, Jim, is something we really do want to dial into. We have an incredible story for you today on Focus on the Family. Welcome to the program. I'm John Fuller.
Your host is Jim Daly. And as you're talking about some of those stats, Jim, I'm thinking the research is fairly alarming. And yet there's this move and Colorado is one of those states to embrace legalizing marijuana, which seems pretty innocuous until you realize some of the costs to the culture and the society and some of the downsides of hospitalizations and traffic deaths and kids who are inspired more to smoke pot than to go to school. There are a lot of negatives to the drug scene.
And as you said, it kind of all kind of came together in the 60s and 70s. We're going to address it, as I said, with a couple of guests who have quite a story for you. They are Mack and Mary Owen, and they experienced the horrors and difficulties of addiction firsthand. And for more than 25 years, they've devoted their lives to helping those caught up in addictions, drug and alcohol addictions, and to help them and their families find that road to recovery. And Mack and Mary are part of the national leadership team for Celebrate Recovery.
Mack and Mary, welcome to Focus on the Family. Oh, thank you. Glad to be here. You had big smiles on your faces listening to that little intro we did. The music gripped you, I can tell. A lot of memories there. But you guys, you know, in so many ways, when I read your book, Never Let Go, you lived this.
I mean, this has been your story, and we're going to uncover it and dig into it because it's so helpful and so relevant to today's culture. I mean, not only are some of the fashions coming back, is that kind of spooky? I mean, bell bottoms are coming daisies, you know, on cars. But the white platform shoes aren't coming back. That's the good news.
But also, just that residual of the drug culture also seems to be coming back in powerful ways. So let's get into it. You two met, I want to get into this, how you met because it is such a 70s story. How did you guys meet? Well, I was a junior and he was a sophomore. What? You were going for the upper class.
That's right. And I was in American history class. And I got sent out in the hallway because I was talking too much in class. I was standing in the hallway. It was a long hallway. I looked down and I see this huge, looks like 24 inch diameter Afro coming down the hallway.
And it was bobbing up and down. And I was like, who is that? And he came walking by and he said hello.
And I said hello. And I just loved his smile and his bright blue eyes. I thought, I need to get to know him. Wow, you really captivated your wife. I have that personality. And the hair thing worked for you.
Yeah, it worked for him very well. But Mac, what attracted you to Mary? Well, I just I saw her at school first too.
And I just thought, wow, now she is good looking. And I found out she was going to be going to a Christian summer camp because we were brought up in very good Christian homes. And that's I think part of our story is that even when kids are brought up in good Christian homes, they can make poor decisions that affect their life for their life. Well, that's one of the reasons as a parent listening, I want you to dial into this because so many kids who grew up in Christian homes, there's no moat around them, they go off to college or vocational training, they're going to be exposed to things. And if they're not ready, they could be snared by the enemy.
And this is one of the reasons we're doing the program. But Mac, growing up in that Christian home, and we weren't ready, like I said, because in our home, we didn't talk about real issues. You know, you went to church on Sunday, long as you showed up every Sunday, you were faithful. And you know, you had your ticket punched. And for us, we were going to church, but we were living that whole different life as soon as we got out of church. And your parents didn't know that.
Is that fair? Or did they have suspicions? But they thought, okay, it's for Mary, Mary's dad, and mom. My parents did not know. Because I hid it well. And I didn't smoke cigarettes or anything.
So I didn't have the smell on me when I would come home like Mac did. So they, they knew he was smoking cigarettes and starting to get rebellious. But I was a little more cautious because I didn't want to hurt my parents.
I love my parents. And, but the peer pressure was so hard back then. I mean, it was, you know, I wanted to be popular. I wanted people to like me.
So if everybody was smoking pot, well, then I was going to try it too, you know. And you were straight A student. You were a good girl. That's how, you know, the book describes you and your parents. I mean, top of the class, the whole bit, you were the poster child of a Christian home, right? And then Mac, you, you were kind of becoming rebellious.
Mary tipped the beans there, spilled the beans. What was that like? Well, I was living in a Christian home. My dad went to seminary.
That's why we moved to Louisiana. And so he was a preacher, but I felt like I just didn't fit in because I couldn't talk about any of the things that were really bothering me. Because if I did, you weren't supposed to talk about that being in a Christian home. Right now I was the only one of my siblings that went down the path that I went down. So again, it could have been my vision that was skewed and not my, my folks.
Well let's uncover that a little bit. What did that look like on a Friday night for you in high school? What you're, you know, you're going to be a church on Sunday, but what were you doing Friday night and Saturday night? Well, Friday night and actually it started on about Monday, I think, you know, but, uh, yeah, Friday night we were looking for anything we could do to get out of the house and have as much fun as we possibly could.
And for me, having fun was, uh, smoking pot with my friends, drinking, coming back in at the nick of time to beat the curfew, you know? So really it was everything that I could do to get away from my parents' rule as I felt it. Speak to that inability to have a discussion and how that pushed you, it sounds like, or the hypocrisy maybe, because Christianity is not about perfection, but sometimes we in the church are trying to project, look at us, we're perfect. And even sometimes we're not trying to do that, but it's what the statement is. And you were having struggles with that as a teenager, right? You're going, okay, it's not perfect.
Therefore they're hypocrites. It's not, is that kind of what you were? That's kind of what I was feeling. It was like, since we don't talk about feelings and what we're dealing with, then actually I was thinking I must be the one that's not right. Okay. So it doesn't fit for you. Right.
It doesn't fit for me. And so for me to get away from that was a goal and I just didn't want to be a part of something that I didn't feel like was real. And Mary, you're seeing this, I'm sure when you guys are out together, you're talking about that. That's part of your bonding relationship, what you're seeing in your Christian family, what Mac's seeing in his, I'm assuming you talked about that. Was that part of the attraction to Mac, that he sees the world maybe in many ways the way you're seeing it?
Yeah. Well, I just didn't like him and his dad. They would fight about his hair being so big.
And it was, I just thought, wow, you know, is that the most important thing? And another thing is there was no such thing as youth ministers then, or youth pastor, or there wasn't in our church. Just everybody went to church together. Everybody went to church. So the kids and the kids that I went to church with, many of them, you know, were like backbiting and gossiping, you know, about each other and stuff. Then when I met him and met his friends, they were all just so welcoming and like, yes, come be with us and we'll have a, they didn't care where you were from, what you did, just come have fun. So on the weekends we'd go out in the woods and have a big bonfire and they'd have like a keg or two of beer and everybody would just, nobody was like talking about anybody. Nobody was doing anything mean.
Everybody was just having a fun time listening to rock and roll. So I thought, now what's wrong with this? You know, go to church on Sunday morning, but they're not being real nice to each other on Sunday morning, but on the weekends we're having a fun time.
So I don't understand this. You know, we'll get to it, but I love, I think the way this is shaping up is it's time to teach the parents a little lesson here. So being parents now, going through that, what's that advice when you have, you know, a teenager and you have this struggle going on, how can we be more real as parents and also be realistic about the importance of faith and how we transmit our faith to our kids, but do it in such a way that makes it desirable?
Well, no subject can be taboo. And when we started raising our kids, that was our motto. Anything our kids ever needed to talk about, we were going to sit down and talk about it.
So be open-minded about the discussion. Yeah. No matter how uncomfortable we felt. Right. Because there was plenty of times that we were like, oh my, they're going to talk about this. Yeah. We'd think, oh my goodness, I wish they wouldn't tell us so much, but we'd think that to ourselves. But then in front of them, we wouldn't act shocked.
We would just listen. Yeah. That's a good thing. That's healthy. In your book, Never Let Go, you describe some of the reckless decisions you made over the next several years.
You're together, but probably over the next seven years or so. For example, you had an unexpected pregnancy while you were still in high school. I'm sure that's painful. What happened? What did you learn from it?
How did it set your trajectory for the next couple of years? Well, again, that was one of those subjects that we never talked about at home. Matter of fact, I got a book when I was a senior in high school that was laid on my bed when I came in, everything I needed to know about sex from my parents. By this time, we'd already had a child. They didn't know that? They didn't know that. And in my home, we didn't either. My dad actually sat me down one day and told me about the birds and the bees. I could tell he was so uncomfortable, what he was trying.
And Mac and I were already having sex. And so I'm just sitting there thinking, you're telling me something I already know. So I think it's so important for us to talk to our kids when they're young, age appropriate, when they ask questions to answer them. So also, we don't tell them something that they've already heard in school. Talk about that guilt and shame that you did experience.
I mean, these are behaviors that, of course, growing up in a Christian home is going to sink the heart of every parent. But speak to your personal experience there about what you really felt. And that was many years ago, I know. But what was it like to go through that experience? And what happened?
Where did you go? And how did you keep it from Mac's parents? Mary's mom had paranoid schizophrenia. So that's why when she said her dad sat down and told her the story about sex. So one day, her mom was in the hospital.
Her dad was out of town. We ended up at her house. And it wasn't planned. We just ended up there. And next thing we knew, we were having sex. And it was the first time for both of us. So it wasn't like she was promiscuous and I had never had sex before.
It just happened because we had too much alone time. And again, I think as a parent, if we could ever tell parents something that's useful is it's okay to monitor your kid's time alone with someone of the opposite sex. Right. Sure. Feel emboldened to do that. You bet.
You bet. And so afterwards, I mean, immediately both of us were like, what just happened? What did we just do? And so I said, we can never do that again. You know, I know that was wrong.
We shouldn't have done it. But then, you know, a couple of days later, Mac's thinking, you know, let's try that again. I was like, no, no, we're not doing this anymore. Well, the next month I didn't start my period. And I thought, no, there's no way. I've got lots of friends that do this all the time and they're not pregnant. You can't get pregnant after one time.
I mean, surely that. And so I waited four months before I went to a doctor. You talk about being in denial.
I just thought if I don't think this, this is not happening. And so I went to my dad one day and I said, Dad, I got something to tell you. And, um, he was taking a nap on the couch and I knelt down to him and I said, um, I'm pregnant.
And he just had tears broke out in his eyes. He goes, I knew, I knew you were. But he said, I kept thinking if, if you don't say it, maybe it's not true.
Maybe I'm just dreaming up in my mind. But he said, you know what? I'll, I'll love you always.
And we'll do whatever you want to do. And I said, well, I've talked to a doctor already and he knows our family, he knows mama's problems. And he said, if your mother ever finds out about this, it will put her in a mental institution for the rest of her life. And so I told my dad, I said, Dad, you're an elder in the church. They'll kick you out of the church.
They're going to put me up on the stage and tar and feather me. I said, I can't go. I've got to give my baby up for adoption.
That's the only option there is. And he said, well, I'll handle the private adoption then. And so he did. And so I went down, I said, I can go with my best friend and move in with them and stay with them until the baby's born. Yeah.
My goodness. I mean, the feelings, there's so many emotions to go through right there that you had shame. You're in a Christian home, right? Let me ask you about the friends. I mean, the parents, how did your friend's parents treat you in that environment? I mean, they were so sweet. Yes, they were good Christians and so sweet. And they just were very welcoming. And they helped you. They helped me. Yes, they did. I just stayed in their home and never went anywhere.
Never went out into town or anything like that because I wanted to keep it a secret. I thought if I made it this far, I need to make sure I go through with this and this happens. Yeah. Mac, drug addiction is really the opening here. And I don't want to keep coming back to that. But describe your life at this time. And even though Mary has kind of turned the corner and decided she wants to be healthy, she wants to pursue God, she wants to, you know, have a good family, she's married you, but you're not responding in the same way, which must have torn your heart up, Mary. I don't know. You know, you're in the spot.
Oh, I would put articles by his side of the bed, you know, hoping he would read them. And, and I would ask him sometimes I said, What do you think is going to happen to you? If you don't turn your life around? What's going to happen if you die? Where do you think you're going to go?
Wow. And because I just thought he's got to turn his life around. He is, you know, but I really didn't know all that he was doing.
But I just knew he wouldn't live in for God. Well, you're a young wife at this time. I mean, 17. Yeah, well, 18.
She got married. Okay. Yeah, I was 19. 18.
Okay, so 19 and 18. So you're learning a lot about what it means just to set up the household and be a wife and, and then Mac, you're trying to live a life that you want to have fun and just, you know, go. I wanted to her to be involved in that too. So it wasn't like I was just living my life. I wanted to pull her along with me, even though she was like laying articles beside my bed and stuff.
I was like, Hey, come go with me, you know, so that's a good description of a tug of war. Actually, when we were first married, I did go with him to parties. I partied with him during that time, I kind of went back down that road to because I wanted to be with him. It was my husband. And, you know, we were having fun together. Right.
All these people. I would call it party light. I was party light. Yeah, you would come but yeah, she was there with the people.
But yeah, you know, just if I could encourage her to do some things she would but most of the time she was like, I don't really want to. Okay, so you're now you find out you're pregnant again. Yes. So the second time. Yeah, stopped everything.
I said, this is it. I'm not going to parties anymore. And, you know, that was kind of sad to not get to be with him anymore. Yeah, because he was he kept going.
And sometimes I would go but I just wouldn't party and I look at everybody else drunk and high and thinking, this is ridiculous. I used to act and Mack you describe in your book a story about your two daughters being with you to go pick up some drugs. And then you can see in the book where you're the Lord's after you in these punctuated moments, they grab your heart. And maybe Mary was playing a role in that as well because her words were making sense to you.
But describe that story of what happened in that first kind of twinge of there's something bigger going on, right? Well, our kids were both going to a Christian school, you know, because even though I was out living this life, I still knew that there was something better. I was going to hell. So you had two kids at this point.
This is a few years later. And I had accepted the fact that I wasn't going to make it to heaven. But I didn't want them to miss out. So but obviously, there was still some time in there where I wasn't making good decisions because I went to pick them up at Christian school one day to bring them home.
It's about a 30 minute drive, I decided to stop by meth dealers house to pick up some drugs on the way home so I wouldn't be without. And after I stopped there, left them in the car, me go inside to get my drugs, come back out. By the time I get home, something just hit me. And I was just like, how stupid can you really be? And it was that it was a, a small moment of clarity.
The large moment of clarity didn't hit till later. But that was that first little, you know what, I've got to do better. Yeah. But still, I mean, you know, I can think I've got to do better. But if my actions don't prove it, and they didn't, how much did I really want to do better? Yeah. So in that regard, to describe that the drug use, I mean, you started with pot and eventually it got to more serious addictions, if I could say it that way with with meth and, and other things.
Describe what happened? Why did you rationalize this would be an okay step to go to math, math is a horrific addiction? Well, you know, we hear people, especially in Colorado now say that marijuana is not a gateway drug. And that's fine, if people want to believe that. But for me, it was and everybody that I ever knew that was on meth started with marijuana.
So right, I think the evidence is pretty strong that it is right, right. And so, for me, it was just that next step, you know, hey, you can stay up all night. You can stay up for several days at a time if you want to. And I was like, Well, this is really cool. And so meth just became and there was a lot of other drugs in between marijuana and meth. But meth became that drug that just clicked for me and I could stay up all night felt like I was being productive at our cabinet shop, when in fact, I was being very unproductive. But my mind was telling me, Oh, you're getting a lot of stuff done here. Yeah, sure. Mary, in that regard, what did you do to start to rescue?
Mac? I mean, were there things steps that you took? Did you continue to nag if I can use that word? Yeah.
Come to church, come to church. What was that like in your relationship? Oh, well, it I figured out it didn't work. Because whatever I did to nag him or try to get him to do family things together, it just pushed him away even more. So I saw that once I saw that that it's not working to me try to force him to turn his life around.
So what I did is I started working on myself. And I just my relationship with God got stronger and stronger. And I told God said, God, I am trusting Romans 828 that you say all things work together for the good for those who love the Lord. And I don't see one good thing coming out of this. But I'm trusting something good.
You've got a plan and you are going to work something good. I might not see it till heaven, but I'm still going to trust you. So I'm going to keep my spiritual eyes on you, even though my physical eyes are seeing something totally different. Mary, how hard was that for you? Well, I got into God's Word, reading his Word every day. So I grew up my mother wrote Bible verses on three by five cards and taped them up all over our bathroom walls. So those verses would come back to me, remembering them. And so I thought, wow, I think that's something I need to pay attention.
I need to say those in my head over and over. So I just started saying different verses and writing them on three by five cards and carry them around with me. And so every time a worry thought would come in my head, I would say that Bible verse. The only thing I wish I would have had back then that I have now is, you know, I have accountability partners.
I have a sponsor. I was so afraid to tell anybody what we were going through. So I kept it all to myself. So I was about to have a nervous breakdown, you know, just trying to do it on my own, with me and God by ourselves. But I really believe God expects that he wants us to be in relationship with his people.
And it would have been easier if I would have talked to other people about it instead of trying to keep it a secret. But you remember too always Isaiah 41 10. That was that life preserving verse. My mother said this so many times, Do not fear for I am with you. Do not be afraid for I am your God. I will strengthen you and I will help you. I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.
Isaiah 41 10. She said that so many times because you know, she had demons in her mind that made her fearful and she would say that out loud and speak that over us because she was afraid something was going to hurt us. And so that scripture came back to me.
So I would say it out loud. And it's a good reminder. I mean, Jesus is the Redeemer.
That's the whole point of this program. Amen. And I hope our listeners are getting that message today that God is at work in these situations, no matter how challenging or how difficult they may be. It's normal to be afraid and to cry out to the Lord when it seems like there's no hope or that your situation will never change.
But here's the good news. You are not alone. God is with you. And we want to be there for you as well. If you're struggling with some kind of addiction or you have a crisis in your marriage or maybe a prodigal child, focus on the family is here to help.
We have Christian counselors who will listen to your story, pray with you and direct you to practical resources in your area. So contact us today. Don't wait.
Don't remain in silence. We're here to help your family. And our number is 800-232-6459.
800 the letter A in the word family. Or you'll find a link to our counseling team and other helpful resources in the episode notes. And when you get in touch with us, ask us about Mac and Mary's book, Never Let Go God's Story of Healing, Hurting Lives. This is a wonderfully encouraging story, and we're only scratching the surface of that today. So I think you'll really appreciate this book. In fact, I'd like to send you a copy when you send a financial gift to focus to help us in the ministry here. And that's our way of saying thanks for being a part of helping hurting families.
And Mac and Mary, we've started to kind of peel back the early days, but I want to come back next time because you had a near-death experience, drug-related, that will kick off the discussion about how God begins to redeem you through Mary and through your family and how He got your attention finally. So can we do that? You bet. All right. Thank you. We'll make plans now to join us for Part 2 of this conversation with the Owens. And in the meantime, we sure would appreciate hearing from you. Make a call or contribute generously to the needs of the ministry online.
Our number is 800, the letter A and the word family, 800-232-6459. Or you can stop by the episode notes for all the details. Coming up next time, you'll hear how God began to intervene in Mac's destructive addiction to drugs. But in that period until Mary came home, that two hours, I thought the whole time I was going to die.
But again, at that point, that's when God in His clear, small voice said, what are you doing? On behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ. I knew my marriage was falling apart.
I just didn't know how to fix it. I felt like I would always be alone, even if I stayed married. At Focus on the Family's Hope Restored Marriage Intensive, we offer hope to couples in crisis so they can have the marriage they've always dreamed of. For the first time, I felt like my husband truly heard me. I've received some great tools from the counselors that have changed my life and my marriage. To begin the journey of finding health, go to HopeRestored.com today.
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