Difficult Conversations for Men (Part 2 of 2)

I was convinced that nothing could change what was going on in our marriage, and I didn't want to try anymore. But my commitment to God helped me try one more time. We went to a Hope Restored marriage intensive, and it was life-changing.

The counselors created the safest environment we could imagine, so that let us really talk. We're on a much different course now, and I believe we received a miracle that week. Save your free consultation at HopeRestored.com. You will not build a great church. You will not have a ministry upon which the sun never sets if you don't reach men. Over 85% of the time when a man comes to Christ, a whole family comes to Christ. Pastor Johnny Hunt was our guest on the last Focus on the Family broadcast with a really inspiring testimony and a deep commitment to help men thrive in Christ. He's back with us for a second day, and I know you're going to learn a lot from this conversation. Your host is Focus President Jim Daly, and I'm John Fuller. John, I found our discussion with Johnny Hunt fascinating. He really has some great stories and some very important insights that men especially need to hear.

We're glad to have him back again as we get to know more about his interesting life, some of the struggles he's been through, and how God has used him in some remarkable ways. If you missed last time, I hope you'll go back and listen to that, get the app, or go to the website. Yeah, look for the link. We'll have it in the episode notes. Pastor Johnny Hunt is the author of a book called Unspoken, What Men Won't Talk About and Why.

Check that out at the website as well. Johnny's the pastor emeritus of First Baptist Church of Woodstock, Georgia, and the former president of the Southern Baptist Convention. Johnny, welcome back to Focus on the Family. Thank you. It's good to be back. Enjoy day one. We had fun, and it was great to hear how God brought you out of this pool hall, basically, right?

Exactly. And put you in that nice GTO that I want to see pictures of someday. But what an incredible conversation about God's work in somebody's life. And if you missed day one, man, you've got to get a copy, get the download, do whatever you need to do, because it was really influential for me just hearing how God works in a man's heart.

And you are a tough dude. So if God can reach you, he can reach anybody, right? You know, in First Timothy, Paul actually says that God has set my life up as an example, like really to say if God can save Saul or Tarsi, he can save anyone.

But I've said just the opposite. If God can use me, the background I came out of, you know, the way I skipped school, probably had a ninth grade education, even though I made it to the 10th. But really, I just never applied myself.

I was drinking and carousing during those days. So if God can take what he started with my life and use me, it's an encouragement that he can use anyone. Right. And that's the point for all who are listening. Exactly.

I mean, there is nobody who's beyond the reach of God. I like to tell men. You're an example of that. I like to tell men that it's not what you bring that causes you to be effective for him. It's what he puts in you. So it's you may feel you're humble, like saying, oh, I just come from this type humble background. God can't really use me. Well, it's not based on your humble background. It's based on a sovereign, supernatural God invading your life and then living out his salvation in you. So Johnny, how did God move you forward in your calling?

All right. So now where do I go from here? And so here's what I believe. God's never shown me A to Z. God will say, here's where you are. I'm at A.

Trust me. Yeah, but how am I going to do that in your job? It's sort of like agree to receive the ticket and leave the driving to me. So then my pastor said, I went to Gardner Webb College University now, but it was a Baptist school, received no state funding, which only thing I could have hoped for is some type of grant based on my poverty.

But he talked to the president and said, this is one of the most promising young men he had seen in his ministry. Basically, here's what they said. We're going to give you one semester. So I think I've got one daughter at that point. We're going to move eight hours from home, give up my job with the promise of one semester. But we felt really called to do it. So we went thinking it all ends in May.

It's all over with. They would ask questions in class and I'd become a really good Bible student. I mean, I was reading every day and I was reading other things I can answer just about every question. And I read my quarterlies.

So I became I mean, I just really became somewhat. You were hungry. I was starving for God's word.

Any the Bible says as newborn babes, we desire the sincere milk of the word. If there was a Bible study and I wish I could get there, I would go. So I went off to school and they begin to say, hey, does anybody want to do the Bible studies for our radio listening audience?

Nobody raised your hand. I'll do it. And then they would say, anybody want to do next week? No, I'll do it. Who would like to go preach at a church in Stone Mountain this week? I've already done it. Let's see.

Nobody raised her hand. I was hungry. I wanted everything. So one day, this is a great story. One day the chaplain, Buddy Freeman said, hey, Johnny, I know you've been preaching a little bit for the school and I've only been a Christian three years. He said, there's a church that they want me to him to be the interim, but I can't be there for two weeks.

Would you go fill in for two weeks? And that was a big deal because that Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night back in those days, but I did. They called Mr. Freeman and said, and I'm a native American said, we like this Indian.

Can we keep it and let him be our interim? So now listen, I've never heard a story like this in my life. I preach for them for like three months and God moved. People were being saved.

All friends were going up just out of the pure fallacy of whatever I could learn. Here's what I had, I had Matthew Henry's commentary on the Bible, a Scofield Bible with its notes. And if Scofield didn't know it and I couldn't get it from my Bible commentary, that's all I had. That was my library. So they brought in a preacher, masters of divinity from Southwestern seminary, and they were voting on him. So I said, well, I'll go somewhere else today, back to my little home church I joined at seminary college. That day, here's how they voted. They bought a little piece of paper, it's 35 people.

If you're for him or fur him, fur him, yes, and if you get him, no. Jim, John, they received like seven for him, three against him, and all the rest of them wrote my name in. Oh my. So this was it? I became the pastor that day. Think about it, without them ever presenting me. Have you ever heard of a pastor being voted in without being presented?

No. So they called and I said, how did it go? Bob Peeler, chairman of the committee, well, pastor Johnny, the people wrote your name in a day, and here's how they talk, South Carolina. We ends want to know if you ends will become our pastor. That's how I became the pastor of my first church, stayed there three years. So God had a plan, but listen, had I never surrendered, and that's even to a lost man that's listening. When you never surrender to God's prompting in your heart, that unsettleness in your life, you never come to realize why you're here in the first place. And then if you're a Christian and you never surrender, you never know what God's purpose for your life is. So I'm now finding his purpose. So where I worried, I can't go to school.

I don't have the money. There was a church. And then in that church, there was a man named Otis Scruggs.

I love it. So tell us how God used Otis in your life. Otis and Viola Scruggs began to love my wife and I and our daughter.

Polly would be born a couple of years later. And so they came to my house one day and told me this story. We have two sons and I said, I've been having dinner with y'all every week.

When am I going to meet your children? They're in heaven. They've been gone 45 years. They were twins and they died with kidney disease. And I remember how we talked.

They could have made it today, but they didn't know what to do back then. And I thought, Otis, I am so sorry. He said, we used to kneel by the bassinets and pray.

God used both of them, but we want to parent a preacher, call one or both of these boys to preach. And they said, our dream died with our boys. And I said, I'm sorry. And here's why.

I'll never forget it as long as I live. My wife and I have rehearsed this story. They looked at us and said, it's where you come in. And I give God glory for this.

Here's what he said. We're in our late seventies and we've never seen a young man on fire like you. And I was 23 then they said, you're on fire. You're wanting everybody to get saved. And we thought you need help. You don't have money. You don't have clothes.

I mean, you can only take one suit and change it so many ways to look different every week. I had one suit and he said, we want to take care of you. So we're here today to ask him. We adopt you. And to this day, I get emotional and I said, adopt me.

What does that look like? He said to starters, we want to pay for your education. Number two, we want to buy you, your wife and your daughter's clothes. Number three, every other week, look for me.

I'll be looking for you. I'll have something for you. And he would give me some twenties every other week for three years, three months and three weeks. So they covered everything and they were like our adopted parents. So paid for my school and bought me really nice clothes.

I tell her about my first pair of floor sign shoes and even a pair of real hush puppies. And so, I mean, I just don't forget this. And he would shake my hand and you know, then $40 every other week, $80 cash in 1976, that was a big deal. And so they became like our parents. I said to Otis one time, I said, Otis, you've done so much to me, please, this is enough.

Don't buy me any more clothes. And here's what he said, Pastor Johnny, I've been thinking about what I've done for you. He says, son, I've never missed anything I've given away. And I thought about that.

You can invest, you can spend, you can waste, but try to remember where you are a loser from what you gave away. And it just stuck with me that, um, and so I quote him all the time, but, um, I went to see him on his deathbed and I'd moved. I was off at seminary then and they said, don't come right now. Doctor says a couple of days and he's comatose. He won't know that you're here and you know, the answer, I will know I'm there. So all the way there, seven hours, I prayed, Lord, please wake him up, please. So I can tell him one more time how grateful I am.

This man has made it possible. So we got there and she said, you can go in. I went in and I, in a deep voice, I just said, Otis, Otis, Otis, and Otis responded and said, uh, he, he woke up and you could tell he was sort of, you know, hazy. And then he saw it was me and there was a smile and he was hooked up to every machine. And I just in tears told him, I love you. You bet. Like a dad. I'll never forget you.

Oh no, no. He became agitated and I didn't know what he was doing. He kept reaching and reaching that man was looking for his wallet because I'd never been around when he didn't give me something and I'm convinced.

So I walked out and I wrote a sermon and here's what I wrote. A man will die the way he lives. Otis was a giver. He died a giver. He died trying to give me one more gift. And so people need to think about that. If you're lost and you're thinking one day I will know if you don't now, today is the day of salvation. Today if you hear his voice harden not your heart because it's so easy.

Hell is full of people with good intentions that never intended to go there. But Otis died the way he lived. Yeah. Beautiful. I appreciate the heart and passion of our guest today on Focus on the Family, Johnny Hunt and his book is called Unspoken What Men Won't Talk About and Why. We'll encourage you to get your copy when you call us 800-AFAMILY or the notes. Have the link for that book and other resources as well. Johnny, one of the core issues that men struggle with and the stats that use in the book are, you know, they're overwhelming actually that 50% or 58% of men over 50 view pornography. It's the issue of pornography. Let's dissect this in a couple of ways. One, why is that so powerful in a man's life in his appetites?

So if we can answer that question, then I'll come follow up with a couple more. It is so absolutely true that men are affected by sight. And so the enemy has had a heyday in that research shows that there is not any subject matter in the world that is even close to the pornographic sites. They know that it's in research shows that it's not just that they want to see the pornography. They want to see different pornography, not the same ones over and over again. And then men become addicted to that source. So as a result, billions of far more than will be given to the evangelical church in America, far more billions will be spent this year in the purchase of pornography. And so we have a ministry in our church that really deals with addictions and they're from every walk of life, profession, I mean, just any profession you can think of that are struggling and we call it walking free.

And it's an ongoing deal of accountability and so doing everything we can. But until a man again humbles himself and says, I'm in a court, if you in the Proverbs, Proverbs five, six and seven, almost in their entirety deal with sexual sin. But in the latter part of chapter five, it says that you really are in bondage because you're tied up with the cords of your own sin, the cords of your own sin. So I believe when the Bible says God will turn you over, it's not like he is, oh boy, he is really working you over. No, he's let you have what you desire.

And yes, and it's that which is consuming your life. And so men, men really want to be free and they've got to know there's a safe place. There's someone they can talk to like a man may come to my office and here's how he normally starts. Well, I'm here to talk to you about a deepest secret. I've been needing to come see you for a year and I know you probably won't tell anybody about your wife and then I need to remind them, no, I don't carry this home. I've got a great marriage. I don't want to go home and relive my day's work.

No. And sometimes my wife say, boy, did you hear who split up and I said, it's been coming for about a year. Well, why didn't I know? And I said, cause I protected you from it, you know, so really as a pastor and then there is a quality God builds within a leader's life and I can't explain this, but when I'm dealing with people in my office that are dealing with particular sins, when I address those through exposition, through a book, I'm not thinking about them when I'm preaching. You know, they may feel like, oh, he's hammering me to no, no, no, no. This is, I'm not an issue preacher.

I didn't hear your problem and dress it Sunday. And I think that's where we get in trouble. We make everything that is an issue.

We try to deal with the issue right then when the scripture will deal with it. Yeah. I'm thinking of the stats again. I want to make sure people hear this. The data that they collected, uh, 69% of American men between 31 and 49, 69%, uh, view pornography monthly. And again, 49% for men ages 50 to 68. So this is a lifelong battle for so many men.

Absolutely. And let me go back to my earliest recollection went before the internet. It was James Dobson focus on the family that spoke one day and said, it's not being addressed, but I need to tell you evangelical pastors at 50% of your men are already struggling with pornography.

And now that wasn't a day I can still remember saying, there's no way. So in our research, we asked pastors, are you dealing with this subject to which the majority said, it's not a problem in our church. Wow. But guess what? It is a problem in their church. But again, when we preach, we don't thunder against it. We're there with a solution. Well let me ask you that, that man who is, I mean, we're talking about 50 to 70% of guys in the church, you know, 15 to 68.

That's a big number. So what do they do? Yeah.

Okay. So they want to come and they want to get on a better path. What did they have to do personally to do that?

Yeah. They really want to know where they can go. And so a safe place is we started a ministry and because we deal with so many issues in men's lives and many that lead them to take their life, we used to have them as ministries of the church. We couldn't keep them as ministries of the church because we couldn't afford the insurance to keep us safe from those that were harming themselves in our ministry. Wow. So we had to place them out on their own 501c.

So we have one called Hope Quest that was started in our church. It's now men and women and you move to the facility. I mean, because it is so overwhelming, it's not just come in for an hour. This has ruined their entire life. We're dealing with a family right now where a granddaddy has touched his grandchildren.

I mean, it doesn't get any more challenging. So this guy doesn't need to come in for a week. He needs to move to a facility and get in. And we have medical doctors helping us because there's medication being prescribed so they can survive. But through that ministry, we do the ministry so they could go to HopeQuest.org and then they could find Walking Free. And that draws even at our church like 200 people a week from all walks of life that will stay in there for a pretty long time. And in there, we offer them help like they're on their computer. So we just say, put in safe eyes.

And you're going to have two or three people. You can go to that site, but you can't go there without the others. And then we're dealing with those that I don't know how to get there and I don't want to know how to get there. But I know it's out there, the dark web. And so they're getting into child pornography.

So we've we've had some related in our church in ministry that have gone to prison because of child pornography. And so in here's the thing. In the scripture, when you study and it says that lawlessness to lawlessness, what it's referring to is a progression. Sin is never satisfied with the amount of you it possesses.

So it's always one more. Adrian Rogers used to say, consider your life a hundred acre field. Satan is satisfied if you'll just give him one acre, but he will take it in the middle of your acreage and he will have egress to all of your life and he'll ruin your life from that one area. So he just wants us to scripture would call it a stronghold or a place behind enemy lines right to fire Johnny. The other area is this area of depression.

You hit the wall. Many pastors have done that. I mean, not to overstate it, but several I know have hit that wall. I guess the question is for men in general, regardless of the vocation they pursue.

What is the precursor for depression in men? And then what happened to you and how did you get through it? And again, it's the story. And so when I came out and told my story, when I came back, I was out 16 weeks. When I came back, I told the story of what happened and what God used to bring recovery. Mine was I had had cancer surgery, prostate cancer surgery, and I'd never been sick.

So I had one question for the doctor. When can I be back preaching? And I really came back way too soon. So I'm dealing with that.

I'm the president of the Southern Baptist Convention. Um, multiple services had a lot on me, but you know, you feel indispensable at times. You feel, um, yeah, you can do it. You know, you feel like Superman and my wife told me the S was not Superman.

It was stupid. So, uh, I'll never forget that. So I don't like that. Yeah. She's a prophet. She does it.

She cuts to the chase. But again, men can't talk about it. Okay.

Remember? So my wife says we're on a little sabbatical and she says, so I've not asked you president sees behind you and it's quite a challenge to try to lead and deal with all your issues and stuff. You become the spokesman for the entire denomination, every issue. And then they said, um, she said, how do you feel? And you know, they know you, they have to enter. And here's what I said.

And this is where it started. I can't explain it, but something inside of me died. I can't go back because I don't have anything. And that's when somebody says, you need a break.

And I don't mean two weeks because you've, um, you've not left time to replenish something your body produces. So it was, uh, and again, dr Dobson used to say, when you get depressed, first of all, make sure it's not medical, physical, you know, it's not just spiritual and they're all related. It affected me relationally, mentally, emotionally, spiritually.

I mean, everything was a part of it. My wife had scared her. So she called a leading psychologist. It was in our life. He said, I'd come to you now if I can, but I'll be there the next day. I met him in a park and a state park. He brought a cooler of water and drinks and sandwiches. He said, we're not leaving here for eight hours. We set it a picnic table or walked through this conservation park, talking, trying to get it out, find out where I was. And then I got into medical care and he looked at my wife and he said, is there anything you've ever wanted to do with Johnny?

And he hasn't done yet. She said, I want us to pack, get in the car and not know where we're going, but not come back for two weeks. He said, that'd be a great therapy. So we left when I say, where are you going with the kids? And the church totally protected me.

My associate, I talked to him, but no one else, only the one person in the church into my kids. When I came back, Jim, and I began to tell the church what I was going through and how I was coming out and how my days were, I wrote a message entitled, there's hope for depression. Only God could have put the time together like this. But the week I was putting the finishing touches and delivering it Sunday, and I was receiving more social media recognition for the sermon before I preached it than I had any message I had preached because there was so much depression and it's entitled, there's hope for depression.

And that's the same week, Robin Williams killed himself. So think what happened when the internet on depression. But there is always the way of escape. So we're promised, but sometimes we choose not to take it.

It's a narrow way of escape. Johnny, we've touched on so many aspects in this great book, Unspoken, what men won't talk about and why you've put it in there. Whether it's that anger, bitterness issue, the depression issue, not having a dad growing up.

I mean, you've covered the gauntlet issues of pornography and those addictions that we lean into to medicate ourselves emotionally. And I so appreciate the time to get to know you and spend time talking to you. I hope the listeners, if you're in that difficult spot, I hope you'll call us. We have caring Christian counselors who are prepared to start that journey.

It'd be that first, perhaps that first time that you've opened up to somebody. I want to encourage you to do it. Don't hold back. Johnny's given you testimony of the many times he stepped out in that way to confess his vulnerability and how the Lord rewarded that.

And that's really the story that you've shared with us the last couple of days. So yeah, get down and get the work done and let the Lord begin to really change. This can encourage a listener. First Corinthians 10, 13 says, there's no temptation overtaking you that is not common to man.

Here's a good translation. If you're struggling with it, you're listening and you're struggling with something. There's millions of others struggling with the same thing. You are exactly right.

Make it known, humble yourself, and you'll be able to help thousands. Yeah. Amazing. Well said. Thank you so much for being with us.

Thanks for having me. And I do hope that you'll be sure to get a copy of the book by Johnny Hunt that we've been talking about today, Unspoken, What Men Won't Talk About and Why. And we have that here at the ministry.

By the way, we're listener supported. We need your generous contributions to continue the work here at Focus on the Family of equipping men, of exploring faith issues, of helping families, of saving babies. Make a donation to Focus on the Family today to support the work here. And we'll send a copy of that book by Johnny Hunt, Unspoken, What Men Won't Talk About and Why. And you can make that donation.

The details are in the episode notes or call 800, the letter A in the word family. And along the way here, we've talked about knowing God personally through his son, Jesus Christ. If that's something you'd like to learn more about, if you're interested in a relationship with the eternal living God, when you're online, look for the free booklet we have that you can download, or we'll send it to you if you'd like. It's called Coming Home, and it really is a great little booklet about the Christian life and what it means to follow Christ.

You'll find that. We're going to link over to it in the episode notes. On behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, thanks for joining us today.

I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. When a woman discovers her husband's struggle with pornography, she needs a practical plan. The latest book from Focus on the Family, Aftershock, by professional counselor Joanne Condie will help you through the seven steps of self-care, and you'll learn how to deal with the emotions involved in the discovery of your husband's addiction. Let Joanne Condie's timeless wisdom give you hope even while you're in your own season of Aftershock. Learn more about Aftershock at focusonthefamily.com slash store.