I was convinced that nothing could change what was going on in our marriage.
And I didn't want to try anymore. But my commitment to God helped me try one more time. We went to a Hope Restored marriage intensive, and it was life-changing. The counselors created the safest environment we could imagine, so that let us really talk.
We're on a much different course now, and I believe we received a miracle that week. Receive your free consultation at HopeRestored.com. On today's episode of Focus on the Family, Pastor Hunt encourages you to find strength in other godly men who can help you to honor God with your life. Your host is Focus President and author Jim Daly, and I'm John Fuller.
John, here's a duh. Men struggle to communicate well, and we don't open up emotionally. I think this is, you know, to be completely transparent, I think this is Jean's biggest beef with me, is that emotionally I don't open up as much as she would like. And I'm trying, I'm learning, I think I'm better than I used to be, but it is part of our wiring, it's part of our hiding, it's part of what we do as men, it's just who we are.
And it's unfortunate because so many of us could reach such higher places spiritually, and in this world, if we were probably more accustomed to being a little more open with our challenges. Our guest today, Pastor Johnny Hunt, is going to offer help for us as men today. And you know, John, one of the things, people will write and say, we don't cover enough about men's issues, men's topics, so here you go. I would say this program is going to be for women, too, who love their men. And I would stay tuned with us if you're either that husband who struggles with communication, or the person married to them.
Yeah. Pastor Johnny Hunt is the pastor emeritus of First Baptist Church of Woodstock, Georgia. He has impacted people with his messages around the world, and he's a former president of the Southern Baptist Convention, and has written a book that we'll really center on today called Unspoken, What Men Won't Talk About and Why.
Get your copy from us, details are in the episode notes. Johnny, welcome to Focus on the Family. Thank you, Jim, it's a joy to be with you and John. You have that great radio voice.
I'm grateful. I never knew it when I was hustling pool. Hustling pool. Okay, let's start there. What in the world were you doing doing that? Well, I was raised by a single mom. So dad checked out when I was seven, and mother raised six children working two jobs. So when I turned 16, dropped out of high school, started hanging out at a local pool room. And I was hired there. And for the next four years, I became very proficient at the game and started hustling until somebody invited me to church and I heard the good news. And then the whole life changed. How old were you when you went to that church?
20 years old. Okay, so you know, here's the point for all the parents who are freaking out about where their kids are at. You just heard in less than a minute, a wonderful testimony of how God is still involved in your prodigal son's life. You know, somebody actually listened to my story, and then wrote it themselves and then gave it to me.
And then it's been in print, but it's entitled from the pool room to the pulpit 27 pages, but literally 10s of 1000s of copies have gone out in numerous languages, encouraging people of how God really can change someone's life. Now in deference to Dr. Kevin Lehman, the birth order book, where were you in the birth order? Were you number one? No, I was next to the last.
So they called it back then knee baby. So I don't know if that's still a statement they use. So only one younger than me. Well, that's something. How did your siblings, how did everyone fare out of that environment?
You know, it's really remarkable. And that's another encouragement. My oldest brother came to Christ after me in a Methodist church, but he wanted to be baptized by immersion. So anyway, and then I'd write letters or call my siblings because I was the first to come to Christ.
And one of my sisters lived in Prescott, Maine. And after I witnessed her, a church planter knocked on their door, ended up leading her and her husband to Christ. And then I shared with my next sister, and one of my best friends went by her house and led her to Christ. And she serves at the church that I pastored for 33 years. And then my brother that's just two years older than me, I personally led him to Christ.
He's been pastoring 10 miles north of me for the last 30 years. Well, you know, Johnny, the good thing there is, you know, the single parent moms who are listening who really are worried about their kids. It just shows you what the Lord can do through those single parent moms and dads.
Absolutely. My mother worked in a factory. She would come home, prepare our meal, and the sisters as they got older helped a lot. And then she would walk to her next job about a mile and a half away at White Front Grill.
And she would serve there as a waitress and then come home. And so my mom died at 60, and I was sort of just getting on my feet and was able to do some things. But if there's one sort of a regret, as I wish she had lived longer, because I began to do so well with a lot of different strands of income, so my sister said to me, she's not here, but she can do it for us. So I have.
That's what a good sister will do. But what a great story and powerful, really. Your book, Unspoken, What Men Won't Talk About and Why, that's the topic we're talking about today.
So let's start with that fundamental question. What's going on with men? Why is this both a humorous kind of response to how men are locked down and also a tragic?
Yeah. You know, my father, even though I was only seven when he left, I remember so much. And I can remember if my mother ever wanted to talk to him, he would just say, I'm not putting up with this and slam the door and leave. And he would not have a conversation. So that's how a lot of men are.
I don't want to talk about this. You're making things worse. And yet we've been told from years through ministries like Focus on the Family that the number one reason at one time for divorce was lack of communication. So it's really sort of in our DNA.
And so we have to really work on it. But where I am in my Christian journey is, yes, that's the way I was raised. And so somebody may say, I could say I've been married 50 years come November of this year, Lord willing.
And someone could say, well, you know, the reason you don't tell Janet or your children you love them, you were never told. No, no, no, no, I'm not going there. I have a new father. I have a new power. And so I'm going to move beyond it. It's how I pray.
I pray in the areas of my weakness in particular. So the first chapter of my book and Unspoken, it tells about my background, how I observe my dad, the DNA. This is just the way men are built. And so you've got to go beyond that. Well, some of that could sound like an excuse for our behavior. You know, we can start saying, well, hey, this is how we're wired.
I mean, literally, this is how we're wired. Here's a fact. I've been doing men's conference.
I'm moving into my 29th year. Recently, I was recognized, hope they're telling it right. But as the largest local church men's conference in America. So, I mean, God greatly blessed.
I started it with this in mind. Men are the untapped reservoir of useful energy for God's kingdom. You will not build a great church. You will not have a ministry upon which the sun never sets if you don't reach men over 85 percent of the time when a man comes to Christ, a whole family comes to Christ. When a lady comes to Christ and this is the facts, 17 percent of the time the children will come.
So we've got to go for the priest of the family. Yeah. Let me ask you a really important question, I think, which is fear. And you mentioned that in the book, too, what fear does to men and why we hide.
I mean, you could take that all the way back to Adam, right? Exactly. But how does fear play a role in the way men behave? The stories again. A young man writes and he says, if I tell my wife what I did, she's gone, she's gone. But he can't live with what he's done. He's in that Psalm 51, day and night thy hand is heavy upon me until David confesses.
What God did in David's life when he did finally confess. So you lead these men to make that decision. Now, are their wives deeply wounded and hurt? Yes. Has it done a major work on trust?
Absolutely. But then there comes that healing part where you know what? He didn't have to tell me. He loves me so much.
He wanted no secrets. And he's made that known. And I've watched and have story after story in print, in a file where men have talked about this next chapter in their life where they came clean and agreed in confession. And so it's just not true.
But the fear is she'll leave me if I tell her. But to the contrary, and it takes time. But time and time again, they'll write me and say, Hey, Pastor Johnny, don't expect you to remember.
But today's the third anniversary from the day I called you and we came in to see you and I confessed in front of you with my wife. And I'll never forget how I heard her that day, which also fortifies them for future victory, because now they've seen literally the harm and the hurt and the discouragement and the pain and the tears that it caused. So yeah, so we've got to move beyond that fear.
Fear is never meant to paralyze us. It just cautions us slows us down, hopefully, to make the right move. You know, I don't know about you, but if I'm lost, and I'm driving, I turn the radio down. What does that do? And I speed up.
And get lost further. There you go, really. And my wife says, Stop asking, buddy. You know, men aren't gonna ask. I'm pretty good at asking.
I think I just know I don't know where I'm going. But also, King David, you mentioned King David in the book, you know, it's one of those things, if we have that opportunity in the next life, you know, with the Lord, if we can meet these characters, which I'm pretty confident we're going to. I do want to get in the line to meet King David. Because there's, you know, there's something about that warrior thing that I'd love to just sit with him around a fire and ask him, you know what that was like. But you also mentioned in the book that he demonstrated some passivity that really hurt his leadership. Describe that.
Yeah. Well, first of all, he should have been on the battlefront. When kings go to war, the scripture often says he was at the palace, so he's not leading. And then, you know, one of the best statements I've ever heard is that when he actually began to scheme to do away with Bathsheba's husband, Uriah, he got him drunk. This is a great statement. Uriah was a better man drunk than David was sober at that moment in his life.
And boy, things like that really, really stick with me. James Dobson used to say that David may have been in a midlife crisis. You know, we believe he was somewhere between that 40 and 50 age during that time.
And he's struggling. And one of the things I always talked about, and I remember an interview years ago from your broadcast, and I think it was Robert Whitehurst, and really what he was talking about is midlife crisis. And you may make some stupid decisions in that tunnel. Be careful in the tunnel, because when you come out, you got to face all that stuff. And so that's what happened to David. Those things happen. And so we got to be careful. In other words, you must stay vigilant. What do you do when a leader doesn't lead?
Someone always rises up. That's right. And that's exactly what happened. So when David began to vacate his place, Absalom rose up. And so, and all the problems it created. And remember, too, I believe all of that was a fallout from his poor decisions, because it was Tamar's issue after then. I mean, it was just the whole family began to crumble. There was a day that we talked about the umbrella of protection over a family. And that, like, as the priest, I'm sort of the covering of my family. And if I begin to have all these holes in my covering, it doesn't just affect me. It affects the whole family.
And I've seen that time and time again. I've seen men that have made real poor choices, and then I've watched it trickle down to their children. And so one of the fears and even one of the disciplines in my life is I want to not only be faithful for Jesus' sake, I want to be faithful for Janet's sake, for Deanna and for Holly, for four grandchildren, for all of my extended friends and family.
Why don't we miss that? Why do so many men not understand that responsibility today? I think we compartmentalize our lives and we move in the areas oftentimes of our weakness. This is strictly the newest thing that's happening in my heart about preaching on repentance right now. What does repentance look like? I want to deal with that probably with a group of men this coming Thursday night.
And I thought about this. Men really are dealing with entitlement, personal entitlement. We hate to see it in someone else's life. He feels he deserves this, but in a way that's what we're saying when we choose not to follow God's moral standard. I deserve this. And so we deal with it, Adrian Rogers used to say, dealing with the 1 John passage that says that we have the pride of life, the lust of the eyes, and the lust of the flesh.
He said every wrong we ever do can be summed up in those three. So that pride of life, you begin to say, I deserve this. I'm a man.
I've worked for this. And that entitlement comes in. So whatever, as in the garden, our eyes lust for and our flesh desires. And realizing, I try to tell men that your flesh, not only is it not redeemed, it never will be. That's not part of the resurrection.
I'm telling you, it's really. That's going back to the earth. I mean, all God can do with the flesh is kill it. And that's why the Reformers said that you better mortify the deeds of the flesh.
You better, you better murder, put to death the deeds of the flesh. And we don't take that as serious as we ought to, and it cost us. Johnny, let's go back to your story a bit. You know, I never became a pool player, really, only in my basement with my boys. But, you know, the school of hard knocks, kind of single parent mom was my background as well.
I probably didn't have the courage to walk into a pool hall. So I kind of I lived life pretty straight. But I want to get back to your story because so much I can feel it. So much of what you've learned, even with great mentors like Dr. Adrian Rogers and others, you probably learned a lot in the gutter. If I could say it that way about human personality, what it means to be a man of strength. Let's go back there for a bit and talk about what you experienced as a teenager in a big boys world, in a man's world. What were you discerning as that teenage boy? One pastor introduced me one time and gosh, I bet it was 30 years ago. And it's one of those statements you can't forget so much.
We can't remember. But he said, ladies and gentlemen, the man that's speaking to us today is he's street smart. And it stuck with me. And because I did, I learned how to survive in the streets and the pool rooms. They were, you know, a lot of fights and you either had to get tough or get out because they found out you weren't tough. Everybody picked on you.
But so here I am, my mother's working. So I'm ashamed of this, but it's just who I am. I started drinking at a very young age.
I mean, since I have grandchildren, I don't like to say how young. It is unbelievable. And a story of how I got it. So that began to happen. And then I began to steal. So I've been arrested for stealing. I've been arrested for fighting. I've been arrested for drunk driving.
So this is all in my past. But where God used that, sometimes people say when you're converted, he began to gradually change. Spurgeon said that when he was converted, he lost 80 percent of his vocabulary. Well, that happened to me. God immediately changed my language, my heart. I mean, immediately that night I became a new creation. I know old things were passing away, but it was so radical that people literally began to reach out and say, hey, we saw you the other day.
You don't even look the same. What under heaven? So that's how I became a witness. And that's why I lead nationally now. I became a witness out of people's questions and a burden for them. People become a witness today through training.
So they've missed the passion part of it. They that sow in tears reap in joy. So I try to change that direction in a person's life. So I began to just lead so many people to Christ. The church I was in was like 35 years old.
They had their greatest year of baptism because they baptized all these people. They baptized the owner of the pool room. I went in, he said, you're not going to work for me anymore. And I said, I need to quit, J.C. And he said, what happened? And when I told him, he said, can you come to my house and tell Eva and I what happened? And that night he surrendered to Jesus. He sold the pool room and bought a Tom's peanut truck.
I mean, you can't make these stories up. And God changed his life. And then many of my friends, I mean, the hardcore friends of that day are pastors. Donald Pope is a pastor. He's been a pastor the last 30 years. Donald got in a knife fight one night when I was with him. And I thought the guy was going to kill him.
But one hundred and twenty five stitches in his chest. Donald is a pastor in Aiken, South Carolina. I mean, so I have these stories of people, you know, that you can call them. Well, it's amazing. Yeah, the Lord is working in that pool hall. He really, really was. And I was being discipled before discipleship was cool.
Yeah. Let me let me ask you, though, take it back to the person who said, do you want to come to church on Sunday? Who was this name was and why did you say yes?
And he was a carpenter because of his consistency. He would see me and he'd say, hey, I wish you'd come to church or to me. Here's what church was. I'd never owned a Bible. And no one in my family went to church.
No one. So basically, here's how I process church. Religious, non-religious. I'm non-religious. Not good or bad, not saved or lost. You respected just that.
It's not for me. But then he would say this. Here's where he caught my attention. Hey, do you know Drew Todd?
Yeah. Who don't know Drew Todd? Hey, have you seen him lately?
Well, to be honest, I have it. He used to come for him every day. Jesus Christ changed his life.
But again, what do you mean, Jesus Christ? Hey, Johnny, don't you know the Joyner boys? Who don't know the Joyner boys? You don't mess with the Joyner boys. I mean, I knew them all. Robert and Alford and Roy. What about them? You haven't seen them, have you?
No. Jesus changed their life. And God was using that like, what do you mean? So finally, my wife said, you know, we ought to go to church. I said, if we go, we're going to Longleaf. That's where these guys went. And that's where Mr. Pridgen invited me.
So I went. How old are you at this point? I was 20.
And married. I was 18. She was 17.
17 days. And now I know the language, but I didn't. But I got under the conviction.
Which conviction? The simplest explanation is God exposes your need in His presence. For instance, if a person goes into church and they're not on a conviction, they may just look around and say, huh, I'm as good as he is.
I'm as good as she is. But when Jesus begins to deal, you see yourself in your sinfulness in light of His holiness. And that's where the brokenness and the contrite heart comes. So there was a morning where the pastor said, there's a young man here. And I believe God's dealing with him. And he said, here's our closing prayer.
Everyone agree with me. God brings him back tonight and saves him. Well, I had a GTO. I would leave there and go to Holly Ridge Drag Strip. I was a drag racer.
So I would go race. So I'm heading home. My wife says, where are you going? I said, home.
We're not going to Drag Strip. I said, no. She said, why? I said, that was me. Somebody said, oh, he had your number.
Oh, no, no, no. God knows your name. I went back that night.
But listen to what I did. I was going to the Red Fox Saloon. I was gambling there.
I was drinking there a couple of nights a week. So I said to my wife, if Jesus Christ is who that preacher said he is and he can change me inside, I think I'm ready. But if he don't, you need to commit to me now. You're not going to hound me because I can't change.
And what a deal. But here's what she said. I didn't know how to tell you because I haven't been living right. But my grandmother took me to church, but I don't see her that much.
And I made the same decision. And I know I was different until I met you and said, but and I should have probably never dated you or married you. But I'm going to go back tonight and I want to get my life right with the Lord. And I want to be baptized. I've not been baptized. And she said, and I really believe if you'll surrender, he'll change you. But I was so shy, Jim. Near the end, I got nervous and I looked over and I said, when Mr. Gibson makes the call, go forward and tell him I want to be saved. She said, no, you got to do that.
I can't do it for you. And that's what I want to call me. And this is an individual. Bill Bright used to say, and it's my favorite part of Four Spiritual Laws, you must individually receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. And so I did. And then Janet and I were baptized the next Sunday night and it, and it just started a journey. But Mr. Pridgen, N.W.
Pridgen. Yeah. I mean, that is amazing. And that is the gospel.
That's what the Lord does. You know, right at the end here, Johnny, I want to touch on something we, we kind of glanced at it, but this issue of pride and you know, what you were in that pool hall, even though you're a young man, you were street wise and you're racing your GTO, by the way, I'm jealous. I love GTOs.
67. The classic GTO. You had the big engine?
400, 335 horsepower, four speed, quadra jet, it would fly. But that idea of pride and how do we as men, that's kind of that seed that's in us, in our flesh. I'm thinking of the guy that is hearing us. He's liking it. This is resonating with him because it's real. How does he lay his pride down? Yeah. You know, when Jesus said in Luke 9 23, any man that comes after me, one of the first things he said is he's got to deny himself.
You have to say no to self. Warren Weardsby. I love to quote these that haven't been with the Lord long because what preacher doesn't have at least a volume? Is there a preacher to have a volume in this generation of Warren Weardsby?
Weardsby did a study and it's radically challenged me. He said he studied, did Jesus ever mention a single characteristic of his own life? He said Jesus never said I am holy. Peter said that. Jesus never said I am love. John said that. But Jesus did say I am meek and lowly.
Learn of me. Matthew 11 29. The only characteristic Warren Weardsby could find of where Jesus with his own lips referring to a trait in his life was humility and so and serve it, you know. So basically we do have to humble ourselves. What's keeping a man that's listening us today from saying yes to Jesus is his pride. Easiest way to say it is five letters and right in the middle is I. And that's the biggest problem.
Here's a fact. I've never had as much trouble with anyone in my life as I have with me. I've never had to confess anyone's sins as much as I have mine. I've never had to ask forgiveness from anyone as much as I have the Father for my own rebellion. When we humble ourselves, he's made provisions where he not only cleanses and forgives of all of the evil of our heart, he empowers us by the Holy Spirit that we no longer have to say yes. He empowers us. So I'm not able on my own.
I always surrender. But through the power of Jesus, if I am controlled by the Spirit, I will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. And so he's made a way. Junior Hill told me, great evangelist, delight thyself in the Lord. He'll give you desires of your heart.
He said, Johnny, I'm praying for you. Don't ever let your desires trump your delight. So if my desires become stronger than who I delight in, I become devious.
Wow, that is an equation. Pastor Johnny, this has been terrific. And it's the beginning. I want to come back next time, continue our discussion, get into more of those things that trip us up as men, and hopefully inform the women who love us, our wives, why we think and act the way we do. So if you're willing to do that, let's do that. I'd love to.
And I want to invite you to get a copy of this book by Johnny Hunt, Unspoken, What Men Won't Talk About and Why. And if you can make a gift of focus for any amount, we'll send it as our way of saying thank you. If you can't afford it, we'll get it out to you, trusting that others will cover the cost of that. We believe in the message. We want to help you in your walk with Christ.
If you don't know the Lord, we want you to call us and talk to one of our counselors. And we'll have some additional information and resources for you as well. Yeah, get in touch. Contact us today. Call for that book.
Donate as you can. And then, Jim, we do have that booklet, Coming Home. It's online, or we can send a copy. Our number is 800, the letter A in the word family.
And you'll find the link in the episode notes. On behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team here, thanks for joining us today. Do plan to be with us next time. We'll continue the conversation with Pastor Johnny Hunt and, once again, help you and your family thrive in Christ. When a woman discovers her husband's struggle with pornography, she needs a practical plan. The latest book from Focus on the Family, Aftershock, by professional counselor Joanne Condie, will help you through the seven steps of self-care. And you'll learn how to deal with the emotions involved in the discovery of your husband's addiction. Let Joanne Condie's timeless wisdom give you hope, even while you're in your own season of Aftershock. Learn more about Aftershock at focusonthefamily.com slash store.
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