Fighting for Your Daughter's Heart

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And this assessment will help get you started. Take the assessment at focusonthefamily.com slash seven traits. That's focusonthefamily.com slash seven traits. That's Tiffany Lee, a Christian singer and songwriter better known as Plum, talking about the day her only daughter was born. And Tiffany is with us today on Focus on the Family to kind of unpack the challenges and joys that often come with mother-daughter relationships.

Your host is Focus president and author Jim Daly, and I'm John Fuller. John, a big part of parenting is fighting for our kids in many areas of life. We fight for things like their character development and their faith in Christ. But any parent knows that sometimes fighting for your kids also means fighting with them. Whether you have boys or girls, it seems to be similar. And it seems like that paradox is especially true in the mother-daughter relationship. I think those two relationships, kind of father-son, mother-daughter, have unique fireworks at times.

And I noticed that with my wife, Jean. I mean, her and her mom would have some sparks now and again. And there is something unique in that mother-daughter relationship, and we're going to cover that today. But you know, John, for me, I only have two sons, so I haven't had the pleasure of a daughter.

You do. I have three, and I must say right now, it's good they're all adults, and they call their mom and talk with her and hang out. But there was a season when, as one of them called it, horror-mones was really kind of front and foremost. And those transition years in the teens, oh my goodness, there were a lot of fights. Yeah, and I want to encourage moms of daughters to listen to this broadcast or this podcast together.

It could be a great way to spark some deeper conversation about the joys and challenges of living together and being together. Stop by the website. You'll find archived audio, a link to the YouTube, our mobile app, so you can listen on the go.

You can even get a CD if you want. And all of that is in the show notes. And as I mentioned earlier, our guest is Tiffany Lee. She's been releasing music for well over 20 years, I think, as Plum. And she's got a great book.

It's called Fight for Her, even if you have to fight her. And we're going to be exploring that. Stop by the website for that book as well. Tiffany, welcome back to Focus. Thank you.

Thanks for having me. What a topic. Why did you pick this to write about? Well, I think Clementine, who is now 11, was about three. And we were having a moment, as many mothers have with their children with a tantrum. And I had judged moms prior to being a mom when you're in Target.

What did that sound like in your head? How did you judge a mother? Oh, just if their child was misbehaving, they must not know what to do. They must not be a great parent. They don't know how to control that child. They don't know how to control that child. And so she's having a tantrum.

And at one point, at three, she's about two or three. And so she's pitching a fit. She won't get in her seat in the van. She won't put her shoes on. And I had to give her an ultimatum. And I said, you know, you can pick these two, which one?

These two shoes right here. And then you're going to get in your seat. And I'm going to give you 10 whole seconds. And so I'm not really a counting mom, like one, two, three, I expect you to do what I'm going to ask you to do when you do it, when I say to do it.

However, that doesn't always work with little kids, as you know. Give a little decompression time. Yeah. So I was trying to get a little grace. And I said, you know what? I'll give you 10 whole seconds. And you can choose which pair you want to wear. And then you can get in your car seat.

And we count to 10. And there's no shoe chosen. And there's still a bad attitude of I don't want to put shoes on.

And I don't want to go for a ride. And so I picked the shoes, popped them on her toes, scooped her up and put her in her car seat. Of course, she's kicking and screaming and just absolutely angry with me. And I buckled her in.

And there's my boys are both kind of just like, whoa, just kind of quiet at this moment. And I looked at her and I kind of grabbed, you know, the, as you buckle the seatbelt for a car seat, I kind of grabbed where you clip it together. And I kind of put my hand around it and got into her face. And I said, you're going to change your attitude and you're going to change it right now. You can do that.

You get to change your attitude. And she's kind of staring at me with her beautiful green eyes. And I said, I will fight for you, even if I have to fight you. Oh, she actually said the words.

No, I said that. And as soon as that came out of my mouth, I was like, that's a book one day. And I didn't write this book because I've got it all figured out.

I'm like the rest of you trying to figure it out. So this is my story. Well, it's good to know perfect parents have their moments.

Yeah. But hey, in fact, in the book, you talk about 20 years prior to her being born, you're already developing a relationship with your future daughter that you weren't sure you're going to have. You had two boys already.

You thought you're going to have a third boy. But speak to that about how you found yourself in situations as a teenager and spoke to your future daughter. I have a really like the trajectory of my life was changed when I was 16 years old. I just finished 10th grade. The most popular girl in the school senior graduated homecoming queen had a party that anybody who was anybody got invited to.

And so I've just got my driver's license, maybe two months before this and school has just gotten out, just finished my sophomore year. And I begged my parents to go to this party and they agree. They say, we're going to trust you.

We're going to let you go. And they had reason to believe that party would look a certain way, but weren't entirely sure, but they were trusting me. And they send me to the party and I get to the party and there's, you know, of course, quote unquote, anyone who's anyone is there, but namely a particular upperclassman boy that had my eye on who had never really paid attention to me, but I always thought he was really cute. And I get to the party and he's beelining his way over to me. And he says, my maiden name is Arbuckle.

And he said, Tiffany Arbuckle. He's like, it's, I'm really surprised to see you here, which should have been my first clue that this is probably not my scene. Um, but he says, wow, it's amazing to see you here. And of course my heart's racing and I'm just, oh my gosh, I'm at this party. Everyone's cool here.

Maybe this, you know, now when I become an upperclassman next year, maybe this will somehow label me as cool. Cause I was at that party. And he has a red solo cup in his hand.

He reaches forward and he says, here you go. And it was not Sprite. And right as I was about to take it and extend my hand, I heard a little girl's voice say, no, mom. And that freaked me out. Um, I pulled my hand away and he kind of made a face and I said, uh, uh, and I was, of course not going to tell him. I just heard a little girl's voice in my head.

Uh, so yeah, definitely not the most attractive thing anyway. So I, uh, pull my hand away and I pretty quickly after that left the party and I walk in the door and my mom says, you're back early. And, uh, she had this look on her face. Like she kind of knew like something happened, something happened. And I was, you know, I had an attitude at that point. I was right about everything. She was wrong about everything as far as I was concerned. And I didn't like that. She was right. That that party probably wasn't where I should have been. And I had some attitude and I was like, you know what?

You're right. Everybody there was drinking. Everybody there was partying. I probably shouldn't have been there.

I left and everybody probably thinks I'm a loser now, but I'm just going to go to my room. So I go to my room, not telling my mom about this little girl's voice that I heard. And that little girl's voice was consistent.

Every time I was tempted to wear something a little sexier, anytime I was tempted to go a little further with a boy than I should have been. Anytime I was a little tempted, a little tempted, a little tempted that little girl's voice would come into my head. And by probably 23, 24 years old, I was pretty sure I knew what that voice was.

It was the Lord using the voice of maybe a little girl one day that I will look at and tell my story to. It's pretty profound when you think about it, that you had that. And how old are you at this point?

15? I was 16. To be able to have that presence to say, if I do this, how am I going to explain this to my future daughter if I have a daughter?

I mean that not many people are that forward thinking. Why do you think you were? I think you were. Did your parents ever talk with you in that way? I had great parents. My mom had grown up in a non-Christian home and had always wanted a daughter. I heard my whole life about how much she wanted me and thought about me and wanted to have a different life for me than she had had in the sense that I would be raised in a Christian home and that she didn't have that luxury. And then I knew that I really, really mattered to her so that if I did ever have a daughter, I definitely had that seed planted of being thoughtful of who my daughter would be one day. But that particular moment, it was Jesus.

Yeah. Well, I so appreciate that in terms of your mom being vulnerable to you. Sometimes parents, all of us as parents, I do this too.

We're guarded. We don't want our kids to know everything when we were their age, what we were thinking, what we were doing perhaps. And Christ works in all of our lives differently, but always toward the same goal, right?

Sanctification and all that. But in your teen years, sometimes it just takes a little while to get off the runway spiritually. And I just admire that really, that your mom spoke to you about her brokenness and it gave you, I think that was the linkage to give you a perception that you better think about your actions for your future. That's a profound gift. It is. It really, really is. And I feel like the Lord is so creative and He knows how to communicate with us.

And so even though I hear a little girl's voice, you know, it was really the Lord. You know, we hear from so many mother-daughter relationships from either one of them. And oftentimes it's about the complication of their relationship, how it's not working.

Speak to that issue of the grief. I mean, your daughter's 11. You're right around the corner from some, you know, the teen years can be a little more of a challenge than the younger years. Have you anticipated that?

Are you thinking about what it could be? And then how do you look back on your own relationship with your mom in the more difficult stuff, even though you're applauding her mothering? I'm sure you had your fights.

Oh, yes. My mother wrote the foreword to the book. I gave her a run for office.

Run for her money. And I can now, at 44 years old, talk about what a great mother she was. But in it, in the midst of 13 to 19, specifically, like those years there, I was cruel with some of the things that I would say. I was very disrespectful.

I was extremely selfish. And I had a mother that I did not, I mean, when she's modeling something, I don't realize the value of it until I'm needing that education and that information, because I'm in a situation similar to that of what she was in. But my mother modeled, she cared more about holiness than my happiness, and more about faithfulness than my friendship. And she hoped that by caring about holiness and faithfulness, that one day, there may be some happiness here, and there may be a friendship. But she really cared more about being faithful to what God had asked her to do with me than she did about she and I getting along. She really just had a trust and a hope that God would honor her efforts. That's really good. The balancing feature for all of us as parents, whether you have a daughter or son, it's this idea of grace and truth, you know, as a parent, speak directly to that mom that feels like all we do is fight.

I mean, it's like, as soon as we wake up from the time we go to bed, it seems like a struggle constantly. Don't wear that, do this, show up at this time. And all the sassiness that goes with the response or the disrespect for the mom that's living in that place. What would you say to her? I will speak to her from the perspective of her daughter, because I was that daughter.

Stay the course. Don't try to swallow the ocean. Just take it one day at a time. Wake up prayerful that, God, I love my daughter, help me to do right by her. Give me the courage to say what I need to say. Give me the courage to not say what I need to not say, but help me to trust that she's yours before she's mine. She's way more yours before she's mine. And so to not overwhelm yourself that she's going to live or die by your right and wrong and lover, just lover, lover, lover, and pray for her. And if she rolls her eyes and she slams her door, don't be afraid of her. My mother was not afraid of me.

And I go back to the friendship and faithfulness, holiness and happiness little comment that I made. My mom put up with someone who did not like her for a long time. And now having a daughter, that had to be brutal. I'm sure I went to school and she cried probably many, many, many, many times that I don't even know about. I broke her heart many times that I don't even know about. But again, she was resting in her identity as God's daughter before she was my mother. And so you've got to choose that and you get to choose that. Tiffany, a moment ago, you mentioned your fear about having a daughter.

So let's go into that a little bit. A mom of two sons at this point, must have been wonderful. Jean's a mom of two sons. But now you're pregnant. You obviously didn't look at the gender. And boom, you have the baby and it's a girl. What was that emotion like? Well, so I have a girl. And so as they put her on my chest, I just, you know, kissing her and telling her I love her. And I managed to say, it's you. Hi, I've known you my whole life. And you have saved me so many times.

Yeah. And in that moment, I felt this sense. And I really connected with my mom in a much deeper way.

A lot of things were happening simultaneously at that delivery. Because I realized then, that's how much my mom loved me. I loved my boys. My mom had a son. So I knew how she loved him. And that I had these children. So I knew the love of a mother, but the love of a mother and daughter. I finally understood. And there's this wealth of just remorse that I had to, I couldn't get to my mom fast enough to say, I'm so sorry.

Wow. I now know how much you loved me. And how hard that was. Man, I'm sorry. And my mom, of course, was like, you have been forgiven a long time ago.

And I just knew maybe one day, she'll have a daughter and she'll understand how much I love her. And the tears are in your eyes. Yeah, I see them. Yeah. That's powerful. Yeah. And I'm sure that the pieces of that puzzle of loving your mom for what she stood for, and when she helped you to realize is a jigsaw puzzle, and those pieces continue to fall into place. Yes.

Right. You know, it seems to me in all human endeavors, communication is the key, but the mother daughter relationship, as we've talked about is so unique. And there can be a lot of passion in that relationship.

I mean, yes. And so I, I think the right question is, how do you keep communication open, or as open as possible is probably the better way to say it, when it comes to mother daughter relationship, because it can turn into a little bit of a verbal brawl. I think a lot of sparks can fly between mothers and daughters. How do you do that? How do you, as a mom, how do you absorb those scratches, and still love that daughter who's doing the scratching?

Yes. And then as a daughter, you know, what do you say to them about pulling in the claws a little bit when it comes to mom? Three things come to mind when you said that. And this is out of my experience of how my mother did this and what I'm trying to do with my own daughter, but how I also do this in my female relationships with other daughters, other women. Taking an interest and what interests them. There's some things that I was interested in that my mother could not do, did not know anything about, can never experienced. The other is... Do you regret that? Or do you, okay, she just didn't have an interest in that. No, she took an interest. So she did it. Yes.

Taking an interest in what interested me. My mother cannot sing, she is tone deaf. But that's funny. If I was going to be singing anywhere, she was the one saying, hey, have you practiced?

Oh, your tape player is broken. Let's go get another one. Like, what time do we need to leave? I'll take you. What song are you going to sing?

Do you want to practice it for me? She really entered your world. She took an interest in what interested me.

Man, I could relate to that because I can't sing. The second thing is time. She spent quality time with me. Sometimes I did not want to spend time with her. And I think in our culture, sometimes when children are pulling away, parents feel like, oh, I need to give them some space.

But on the contrary, I think there's sometimes when they need you even more when they're doing that. So my mom would take me out for tea, or she would say, hey, let's bake a pie. I don't want to bake a pie, mom. I've got other things. You know what?

I don't care. You're going to bake a pie with me. And so even though that time together may have been a little unpleasant, she was still showing me her passion for me. And the other was honesty, that my mom did not tiptoe around what was true with me, even if it hurt my feelings, even if it created an argument.

So honesty, time, and an interest. That's good. Those are three things. That's really good. We are so appreciating the lessons that Tiffany Lee has learned over the years and is applying in her own motherhood journey.

I hope you're dialed in. I get a copy of this book that Tiffany has written called Fight for Her. Even if you have to fight her, the author is listed as Plum.

That's your stage name. And we've got copies of the book. We'll make it easy. Just stop by our website or give us a call. And if you can, make a donation when you get in touch. And we would appreciate that greatly. That helps us continue producing programs like this and making podcasts available, great resources. So our number is 800, the letter A in the word family.

That's 800-232-6459. Or we'll have further details in the episode notes. You know, another area, Tiffany, where mothers and daughters seem to struggle is in this area of comparison. I understand you compared yourself to your own mom for many years. How did you learn to embrace who God made you to be and distinctly different from your mom?

I had to learn it the hard way. And I'll be really honest, I'd love to tell you that I just eventually had this self-discovery and I just decided to accept who I was different from her. I realized that Julie Arbuckle is my mom. God created her to be Tiffany's mom. But that God created Tiffany to be Solomon and Oliver and Clementine's mom.

That Julie Arbuckle is their grandma, not their mother. And that the differences in me are intentional because they, my children, are also not me, just like I am not my mom. And so, you know, I am a singer, I'm a songwriter, I travel, but I still refuse to let anyone help me clean my house or watch my children.

So I'm going to do it all. I'm going to raise my children just like my mom raised me. But my mom didn't have concerts. My mom didn't go and speak. She didn't go and songwrite. That was fine. Maybe the Lord created her in the place that she was in so that she could be completely available to helping shape me to become who you're talking to now. You know what it sounds like, and I want to hear the end of that, but it sounds like you're trying to be two people.

I was. That's exhausting. I was trying to be two people and eventually realized that I'm not less of a mom for Clementine by not being Julie and Tiffany. I'm actually a better mother for Clementine when I'm just being Tiffany. And so part of Clementine's mom is that she does travel and that she does have to miss some of her games.

Sometimes she isn't at volleyball practice. Sometimes I do have to miss some things. And there's that part of me that the enemy wanted to fuel as guilt and shame of like, oh, you're missing things your mother would have never missed. But at the same time, not recognizing that the Lord knows that. And if he's called me to this, he is going to be in Clementine's life. He's going to provide the things that Clementine needs that I'm not meeting in my absence if I'm doing what he's called me to. And so we have to trust the Lord to be for our children what they need, and it doesn't all come from us.

Yeah, what's so good about that, too, is I'm hearing, rest, have peace. I mean, don't be in turmoil, right? God will use turmoil and that uneasiness for a purpose, so you got to pay attention to it.

But sometimes you can overthink that. Well, the enemy, the enemy will use guilt and shame and anxiety and fear. Those are not attributes of Jesus.

My best friend told me that when I was going through a really dark period of just a season that I was in, that I was struggling with those four things. And she said, Well, you know, that's not Jesus guilt. That's not fruit of the Spirit.

Right. Guilt makes you continue to hide. Conviction, guilt and conviction are two very different things. Conviction brings you to the feet of Jesus. And you bring light in and you say, Help me, God, help me. Maybe it's in your parenting. Maybe it's in a number of other things. When you let him in, when you come to his feet, that's not, you're not guilty.

You're convicted. And he's going to meet your need and he's going to answer your questions and your prayers and your, you know, the needs of your heart and your family. And so what I was struggling with, just as many mothers do, the enemy wants you to keep that in the dark.

He does not want you to come to the feet of Jesus and he doesn't want you to let community in. But those are the two places you can find tremendous hope. Man, that is good. I think the right last question is here, which is motherhood can be difficult and exhausting. You're expressing that. All the things, the way your mind is spinning and connecting and lists and all the things that go on in a woman's brain, a mom's brain, all the stuff that you fall short with. Rarely is it the pat on the back that I'm doing this well. It's always self-examination. But it's also incredible that God has called you to do this. The way you described it a moment ago, I'd wrap it up and say, God is perfect.

He's not making mistakes. So you're the mother of that child for an eternal purpose. And that can be overwhelming. But I think you should walk in peace with that, that God knew that you would be that child's mom before the universe was formed.

That's pretty amazing. However, I want you to speak to that mom whose heart is weary and who feels like her efforts with her, her children, maybe even her husband might be going to waste. You know, it's this helplessness.

What can you say to her to not be helpless or hopeless? What comes to mind is kind of a resounding theme from what we've talked about. And it is letting the light in and speaking the truth out loud, regardless of what you feel and incorporating community into your story. You could be feeling that way because more so, it's not that when you have community and truth that you don't feel those things.

That's not true. You do still feel those things. The enemy is at work all the time. He wants you to hear all the mistakes you've made. He wants to remind you over and over again, over and over and over. He wants you to feel inadequate and unworthy. And he's really good at reminding us of all that.

So we drown it out with the truth. Have no fear. You're not listening to this by accident. And God's with you. That is an irrefutable truth that He is always with you. He always loves you. He is not going to give you more than you can handle. He truly has equipped you for what He's called you to.

And if you are a parent, whether it's a boy or a girl, you're a parent, He will give you all the tools that you need. You just need to get still and listen to Him. And it's okay to get still. It's okay to be quiet.

If that means that you lock the door for your bath time and you just get alone with Jesus and you cry out to Him, you get alone with your Bible and you fall asleep reading it. If you go to coffee, maybe that's not even in your budget to go to coffee, but you really need to go to coffee with somebody to talk to them. Just trust the Lord will provide.

Maybe that person decides to get your coffee for you. Just don't keep it in the dark because the enemy wants you to feel that. He wants you to hear that. And God's power in you and His voice is louder if you'll choose to. That's something that we don't talk enough about in the church that choice. You get to choose to put that into your life or to keep it out. And so don't choose to let that be the noise that you hear the most. Don't choose to stay in the dark. Don't choose to do this by yourself.

Choose to reach out and say, God help me. And He will. Oh my goodness.

He will. He does not want you to do it alone. He just needs you to work with Him.

That's it. Tiffany, this is such good stuff and so encouraging for all of us. And I want to let the listener know, if you need that community, Tiffany has been talking about, we want to be there for you. And that's why we have our team of Christian counselors. In the past year, more than 170,000 moms and dads have let us know that Focus helped them work through a significant crisis with their child. And we would be honored to hear your story too, no matter how complicated it might be. And together, we will help you start your journey toward healing. And you can get in touch with the Focus on the Family counselor by calling 800, the letter A in the word family, or click the link in the episode show notes to learn more. And John, I want to say thank you to our listeners who have teamed up to support the ministry.

This is a group of people who believe in God's design for marriage and family. And they have committed to praying for Focus on the Family and supporting the ministry financially when they can. If you believe in the mission of Focus on the Family, please give a gift of any amount. Whatever you can give, even $5, $10 helps so much when many of you do that. When you give, we'll send you a copy of Tiffany's book, Fight for Her, even if you have to fight her, as our way of saying thank you for being part of the team here at Focus. Yeah, our number is 800, the letter A in the word family, and we'll have further details in the episode notes. On behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family.

I'm John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Parents, are you looking for an informative, encouraging, and engaging resource for your teen daughter? Check out the new and improved Brio Magazine from Focus on the Family. Almost double the original size in a book-like format, this trusted, biblically-based magazine provides teen girls with inspiring stories, fashion advice, cultural insights, and positive role models.

Help your teen girl live out her faith. Subscribe at Briomagazine.com. That's Briomagazine.com.