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March 24, 2021 6:00 am
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I was broken by having gone through this procedure, having taken hormones and having believed the going through this transition to a different gender was my salvation when in fact the salvation is actually in Jesus Christ will tire from our last episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and he's back again today along with Kathy Grace Duncan and assuring the very powerful stories of God's work in their lives.
Thanks for joining us today.
This is a topic that's can be pretty sensitive so please just know that it isn't appropriate for younger listeners and viewers.
John last time we covered amazing components of these two wonderful people's testimony, and it was tough. You could hear it, and there are some gold nuggets in that discussion that really jumped out at me and if you missed hearing last time, download the smart phone app and get a copy somehow were here. Focus we can give the details later. You can get a CD if you still use CD player's whatever it takes. Want to get that message under him because I think it was powerful. Some might be asking you nowise focus covering this well because many people are struggling in this area. Maybe not directly themselves, but family members are, and people are writing and emailing and texting us about circumstances and their own family dynamics where a niece and nephew son or daughter. Whatever it might be there struggling with this and they don't know what to do so. In part this is to equip you to better understand this world to better understand it biblically. What does God have for people who are struggling with their sexual identity, their orientation, all of it and this will be a great tool in your tool chest to understand it and talk to others about it and focus is here to help you grow in understanding and we have so many resources, including one or making available today. It's a book by Vaughn Roberts and it's called talking points, transgender, and for details.
You can give us a call 880 family or click the link on the episode page and Walt hire identified as a transgender woman for eight years and he's now an author and speaker and travels extensively, sharing his story of redemption.
Kathy Grace Duncan identified as a man for 11 years and now she volunteers with Portland Fellowship and helps men and women struggling with their sexual identity and she's also part of the changed movement may welcome both of you back to Focus on the Family. I think you it was really enlightening and informative, heartbreaking, all those things last time we got together and talked about your situation and then I'm so grateful right at the beginning here that the Lord is done such a transformation in your lives. Kathy Grace, let me give you a shot at. I think speaking to those people who discount who you are, your journey, etc. there seems to be such a venom if I could say it that way, not from everybody. There's not a monolithic kind of situation or status for these people that don't believe what you believe that you can come out of being homosexually income out of trans gendered-ism, but give it your shot to say. Here's why you need to listen to me.
Share well I did have a conversation with a younger gentleman.
I'd spoken at a conference and he approached me and he is I cannot.
I don't see how coming out of this would be better because I'm tremendously happy.
I said I understand that I was tremendously happy tune will did you have friends like absolutely had friends as well. You didn't have surgery I say what I have the top surgery that you know I didn't find it necessary, nor did I have the money to do the bottom but yet I still went to the effort to continue to live as a man and he's like well but are you happy now and I said absolutely and you have friends like yeah, he said.
So what's the difference between you and I miss it. Will the differences is that I'm no longer deceived while as a big statement and he's like what but I'm I'm happy and I love the Lord. Unlike okay let's do this.
Let's take the sexual component out of it and let me ask you, do you believe that when you sin that the Lord still loves you like will know because I send him dirty and bad miscible, but that's not what the Bible says, you know, and I said so. If you believe that the Lord doesn't love you. You now but you believe in his unconditional love in your deceived because he loves you no matter what he's like I said, and so when I came to believe that the Lord left me. I understood that I was deceived and that's the difference between you and I is that you don't know the deception that year and you don't understand that and he's like oh and I said so, I'm still happy living in the truth with who I am. I still have friends. My life is fruitful. It wasn't fruitful when I was because I lived under fear. I see that now the fear that I lived under let let me bring up another aspect.
Walt, you studied this when you look at the psychological factors related to transgendered-ism. Another thing, despair, anxiety, depression seem to be a common component within that community. Describe what you have found yet depression and anxiety are just kind of one basic component of struggling with your identity are to be anxious about it. How soon can I get it done. You can be depressed about who you are, in fact gendered dysphoria is just the opposite of euphoria, which is just a form of word of depression and so what I found in the people that I've worked with and that's basically the group that I can talk about is that they either like Kathy Grace is talked about.
They were sexually abused.
They were emotionally abused. Some of them were passed around from foster home to foster home they had something in their life that cause them to really not connect with who they were. They didn't have a father figure. Something happened and and there's really number of things that happen to them. Some of them have body dysmorphia, dissociative disorder, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and so the people who are identifying many of them as transgender suffering from what we call comorbidities and its digging down and find out what those comorbidities are and that's what we begin to uncover these comorbid disorders such as dissociative disorders and all these other things that come into play and sexual abuse being one of the big ones like Kathy Grace is found as well as I yeah I Kathy, let's turn the corner. Let's get to the healing part we left off last time you were basically playing two roles. Your that teenager you were presenting in some circumstances, mail and even dating girls, and then you also had a female role in some other context, take us forward in that worded that lead what was happening in your 20s and then what happened to you. 26. Share. So at the age 19 I did I couldn't do the dual role any longer, just exhausting or what. Why is well and I just desired for this freedom to live as a man. What does that mean though, I mean what did it mean to become free. What we looking for, well, I was because of the deep self-hatred. I was so desperate to get away from anything that represented me as a woman and so I began to pursue the hormone treatment so that I could become an live as a man and said the age 19 I did that I change my name started the hormone treatment and began to live as a man from that point on.
At the age of 19 and you roll forward through your 20s and doing that yes so two weeks after starting to live as a man I had gone to church and I except the Lord is my Savior. Oddly enough, however, being so young in my faith.
I didn't know what his will was for my life and I didn't hear him telling me that when I was doing was bad and change backside thought he was okay with it as I continue to live as a man and how how did that then unfold. Did you feel contradictions. How did you become aware that maybe I'm not living a full Christian life that I got a deal with this, that conviction didn't really come until almost the end of the 11 years. However, during that time you I dated women and I got out of that one long-term relationship, and I jumped right into another, and after being in this relationship for about a year. I woke up one morning and realized my gosh she's my mom and I my dad and I become everything I vowed that I would not and so I broke up realizing I can't.
I don't want to be this person. I don't want to be that man and I don't want to treat her like that. So I broke up with her and I had been involved in a church and I played in the orchestra and one night on my way to the orchestra practice. The Lord called to me and he said will you now will you now and I said yes. Lori and I take this inventory of my life and I'm like I don't have anything in the way I have nothing holding you back and prior to that I had fallen into a deep pornography addiction and it was severe and three months later after saying yes to the Lord answering that call, I realized that I had been delivered from that pornography addiction and then continuing moving forward.
Size 26 at the time and in the next four years. The Lord just began to me and I open my heart everywhere to him. I got more involved in the church I was a junior high boys. Small group boys leader and I let a man small group and I still in involved in the orchestra and night just poured my heart out for the Lord and doing his work and then at the end of the 11 years there. I had come back from a height junior high retreat and the Lord had given me spiritual parents and my spiritual that came up to me and said actually talk to you I am my heart is like oh I know that this is not going to be united. He confronted here and so I go back into the prayer room and that a pastor that I become really good friends with was back there and I sat down and he looks at me and he said you know where you are hearing these rumors about you and we just want to know who are you who are you really and for the first time I told the truth because prior to that, I would say I'm a man who used to be a woman and at that point I said to the pastor I'm woman living as a man and when I did that the Holy Spirit just blew into me and I saw the next two weeks of my life and I realized in order to have this relationship that I had so back the Lord for that. I had to go back to being a woman and that was planning. There is no plan B there was this is what I've got to do, Dave. I asked Dave the pastor. So what I do and I hadn't told him anything that I had just seen and he said well you know you could you could well maybe you should to yeah yeah right I don't know. He's like I never dealt with this before.
Right. And I said what can I share with you what I've seen in years like sheriffs. I said well in the next two weeks I need to go to these different pastors and I need to step down for my roles I need to go back to live as woman.
I need to go out and break up with my girlfriend and he's like okay well I'll work with you. I will meet with you and I'll be in those meetings you now meet with us pastors to step down and that was the point where I totally just gave my heart over to the Lord and said yes yeah yeah it is so powerful and I appreciate the pastors inability and in some ways this isn't something we experience that often and frankly, this is the big point this is maybe something I would like to ask you and that is when we are pushing for the change enough that pastor was said. Yet we been on this.
You know, we've noticed that you needed to change for quite some time before things you need to do, I doubt that would have resonated with you. Frankly, and it's almost like it has to be from within you.
The Holy Spirit is got to quicken you to say even what this person in front you're saying is true right and there's gotta be that connection absolutely well and I think to just allowing the Lord to come into your heart even when you know there's places I know that I've been in sin and the Lord begins to work on that place and he begins to bring healing. I realize, oh my gosh this is okay and prior to that in that four-year period were the Lord was wooing me. There's a couple of times where Scripture actually brought conviction and I wasn't quite sure what to do with that and I had a friend call me.
You know she's crying over the phone because she read Psalm 139 she's like oh my gosh. The Lord knows me and you know she was so excited and and I'm like oh no, what have I done.
If he's knit me together in my mother's womb. What about one of my doing, what have I done Walt parlaying the snow into your directions. You get your part of the story where you picking up some spiritual sense that is a really do know here I am living as a woman I've gone to the full degree of physically changing myself to be that, but it's not real yeah when I went to church. I first went to pastor Jeffrey R and I sat in his office across from it.
And as Laura and I just come out of the recovery home from alcohol and drugs and I'm sitting there and I'm looking him straight and said Jeff are you going to try to change me back to being Walt and Jeff and establish twirling pencil in front of me said now he said my jobs just to love you and it's God's job to change that is powerful and sees that right there got me. My eyes popped open as you expect him to say something else.
And so in that time that I spent many many many times with Jeff. What I realized was that in speaking and learning from Jeff. There's only two ways to be in this as for me, was I was either going to be defiant against Jesus Christ being able to redeem and restore my life for I was going to admit that I was broken and that's what I wrote my book about my brokenness. Once I realized that the surgery and the hormones and none of that change me. That was the key that opened the door that said, I'm broken. That was the brokenness I had been broken by the surgery in the hormones and at that point. I then had an open heart for the Lord to come in and redeem and restore my life and so this is where I began the journey back. I'm recovering I'm I'm working on my alcoholism and end during a time when I meeting with somebody doing my four step in your going through all the stuff with my psychologist, was a Christian psychologist and and were praying and going through it for almost 2 hours.
I believe we went through the session together, going through all these different things and when we're done having the session I had written them all down on the yellow line piece of paper all the things that hurt the this sexual abuse.
The purple dress. All these things had written down.
We went outside and lit a match to them in the parking is like 100 pages. Yeah it was big giant thing and I just written everything down, one to just regurgitate all of it and get it out there. I had no idea what was going to happen so we lit a match to the corner of this yellow lined paper and let it burn and it just took away and went drifted his smoke in it was gone and so my counselor at the time said, you know, I think we should go back to the office and pray well you know I knew this guy was a guy who prayed for a long time and I thought, I don't know if I want to go back and listen to this guy. Pray because he's going to go on for two hours. I want lunch. I'm tired of doing back to practical. I'm back to practical you nonthinking if you could do two minutes of prayer.
I'm good, but I knew it wasn't going to be so we went back and started praying and I'm thinking of how long is this guy gonna get Pranay's Brandon I'm going home. I got she's praying forever and it was starting to become almost comical to me how long is this guy getting on. I just spent two hours with and so all the sudden I didn't hearing many more just got silent and I know he was still praying, but I I could see the Lord coming to me it I saw him coming down toward me and I stop for that moment I didn't hear anything and I looked in front of me and here was a little baby wrapped in cloth in front of me and I looked at the baby and so this me that's me in the Lord is coming down to pick me up.
The Lord reached down and picked that little baby up and I could hear him say you are now safe with me forever, and he disappeared while my life at that moment was redeemed and restored to Jesus Christ and that prayer that I did not want to have. It was gonna be longer than I wanted to be there the Lord came and from that moment on I been serving the Lord through that redemption that happened that day was so beautiful and you know the picture you paint there. That's what the Lord wants with every one of his created beings right were created in his image were created for relationship with him.
That's what he wants to do for each and every person, no matter what and snares you in this life. He knows that he has compassion for us absolutely in the key, though, is admitting that I was broken. See, as long as I held onto the fact that I was okay. The way I was utilizing income while you strike me as a truth seeker not everybody is an all throughout our conversation, you seem to have a good bedrock of ship. I don't want to listen this prayer forever. Come on, it's a very practical thing. A very truthful thing to feel and to say, and you strike me as somebody even back when when you were living in a transgendered environment you strike me as somebody who wanted truth. That's an actual benefit in your pursuit of God. People need mics versus the more you try to pursue God. The more you need to know what truth that's right you start its revelation to you that I'm living a lie. Whatever might be a married man having an affair.
I'm whatever. If you can't get to the truth of what God is trying to show you, you can swing a mess. Every time, and many many people with their sin, live in that space because they can't bring it into the light of Christ. What word did you find out ability to want to be more truthful about who you are. You weren't same-sex attracted as a transgendered person you're trying to get rid of the dirtiness of what you experienced and is a great question and and it happened really when I went to a gender therapist, the guy who actually wrote the original Harry Benjamin international standards of care that morphed into the standards of care we have today are Dr. Paul Walker who was the chairperson, who wrote the original standards of care in the late 70s and so this wanting the truth came out of my time with him as him being my therapist and later on as him being one of the ones along with the surgeon Dr. Biber admitting that the surgery doesn't change you.
So what I wanted input came from. This was, I realized after the fact, that had Dr. Walker sat with me and asked me the truth about what happened to me as a child. I told him about being sexually abuse a tolling bout but he dismissed it as having any significance and see that's the truth that was missing it at the proper therapy proper approach on this would've been for him to say wow something like that is going to have a profound impact on how you feel and behave about yourself. It's going to change. I mean sexual abuse is powerful and so I wanted from then on everyone to speak the truth and that's why I save comorbidities.
Those are truths I want people to know what happened once we find out what happened were dealing with the truth is not just call it gender dysphoria list. Not just call it transgender is him let's get to the truth because gender dysphoria in transgender and do not address even come close to dealing with what the truth is there just words that we use in society to identify people who are struggling but we need to go much deeper and find out where their herd is what broke that person sexual abuse, emotional abuse, psychological abuse, so once I realized how powerful truth is in the restoration of somebody's life.
I can't let go of it and neither should anyone else we shouldn't dismiss it by saying oh they just have gender dysphoria. There just a transgendered over there just that no no stop. Let's find out what happened that caused them to not like who they are. You know, because changing gender is the suicide you live through. Why do you want to dump who you are. Why is it better why do you think it's going to be better for you as a man to dress up as a woman because that's all you're going to be, why isn't it good for you to dress as a man and be the man you are.
Why do you think it's better to put on address what makes that better. I want to know what makes that better while, and so when you know when you confront people with these truths. Sure a lot of people don't like me because I want the truth because the truth I think I've heard this said before sets you free.
Well, there's no better place to end been there and that is the truth. It's the truth for all of us and both of you have done such a beautiful job of expressing what you have come through what you had to go through and God's grace, which is an amazing part about an amazing part of your journey and that we said this a couple times but it reminds me that no one, including Kathy, Grace or Walt or anybody else in that LGBT Q communities beyond the reach of God. He loves them. He cares for them.
And if you're a Christian that does not believe that I would want to challenge you to read the Scripture more about God's heart for people. If you think God can't love certain people because of what they're doing or the behavior.
I think you missed the whole point.
But, Kathy, Grace and Walt. What a beautiful expression of God's love for you. Thank you for being so open and vulnerable. In describing this is not easy. I know you live this. It's a thing where you know you live and repeat your son every day and party your testimony right and that can't be easy, but I'm so grateful that you're willing to talk about how God has brought you out of that and let me turn to the listener and the viewer on YouTube. You see it.
Your hearing their heart you know it's true. And if you're in that spot where your dip and then your, listen to focus because your back were Kathy Greyser Walt were when they first started to think about God and went to church two weeks after your big commitment to being a man. The grace of me that's amazing. If you're there in that spot get in touch with us. Don't be fearful were not going to come after you.
There may be that impression. The Christians are mean-spirited, were not those people that encourages mean-spirited people to really get to know the Lord were here for you. We want to help. You want to talk to a maybe that first step. Third step fifth step in your journey to finding that relationship with Jesus.
So do that. Be bold will be bold to will talk about the truth of God's word and also I'd love to give you a copy of the broadcast, and a copy of the booklet the John's about to talk about and you know just call us not looking for dollars out of this. We want to help you yet we have several resources available here highlight a book called talking points transgender.
It's written by Vaughn Roberts and it really will give you a great introduction to this topic. Give us a call to get the book to, or if you need to schedule a time to speak with one of our counselors are numbers 800 K and the word family or we've got all the details on the episode page in this reminder that our counseling team is provided to donors of this ministry. So if you can make a contribution to allow us to continue serving people in that way.
We deeply appreciate on behalf of Jim Daly in the entire team here. Thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family I'm John Fuller inviting you back.
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